A talk by a Watchtower representative urging the shunning of relatives is sending shockwaves through the online JW community.
Recorded at one of the 2013 “God’s Word Is Truth” District Conventions in California, the speaker instructs Witnesses to shun family members, even children, as an act of loyalty.
In his Saturday-afternoon talk entitled “The Truth Brings ‘Not Peace, But a Sword’,” Wallkill Bethel representative Steven Bell laid the blame for the heartache of shunning squarely at the feet of those who are disfellowshipped.
“Resist self-blame,” Bell told an audience of thousands of Witnesses. “We may think that we’re at fault somehow. Remember that Jehovah holds sinners responsible for their actions. Each person has to have a personal relationship with Jehovah. Even young ones that are disfellowshipped, it’s because their relationship with Jehovah was weak.”
Since being uploaded less than 24 hours ago, the video has already received thousands of views and has provoked an angry backlash on JW forums and Facebook groups – especially among those who are currently being shunned.
Video transcript available on this link.
Ironically, even though the above talk openly encourages divisions between families on religious grounds, the official handbill circulated by Jehovah’s Witnesses to promote the convention posed the following question on its front cover…
Bell’s talk, which was based on an outline provided for him by the Teaching Committee of the Governing Body, draws on Christ’s words in Matthew 10:34,35 to suggest that Witnesses should expect their beliefs to cause family divisions.
In using this scripture, the Governing Body are implying that all who are disfellowshipped from Jehovah’s Witnesses oppose God and Jesus and should therefore be shunned. Failure to shun family members who are former Witnesses is to be considered an act of disloyalty against God.
“What does Jehovah expect out of us, even if the situation is so painful that we have a family member who is disfellowshipped? What does he want?” asks Bell. “Loyalty, that’s what Jehovah wants. Jehovah knows that this is a difficult time in our life, but he wants loyalty.”
Loyalty to the Watch Tower Society is thus to be considered equal to loyalty to God.
Emotional blackmail admitted
Those who oppose Watchtower’s practice of shunning former members point to the fact that it essentially constitutes emotional blackmail. The purpose of disfellowshipping is, they say, not to restore the person’s relationship with God, but to blackmail the person into returning to the organization by holding his family hostage. Interestingly, this is precisely how disfellowshipping is presented in Bell’s talk.
“When someone is disfellowshipped,” explains Bell, “one of the reasons they want to come back into Jehovah’s organization is to associate with the brothers and sisters in the congregation and likely to associate with their family. So if we associate with them when they’re disfellowshipped, we could actually be taking away from them a motivating factor for wanting to be reinstated.”
Bell then attempts to drive his point home with a bizarre hypothetical scenario in which a disfellowshipped person is finally reinstated and promptly criticizes his family for not shunning him fully. Many have already commented on how unlikely this scenario would be.
“Just imagine now if we didn’t remain loyal and we talk to them [the disfellowshipped person] and associate with them,” suggests Bell. “Could you imagine the feeling we would have the night they were reinstated, and they walked up to us and said: ‘Why weren’t you loyal to Jehovah when I was disfellowshipped?’ That would cut us at our heart! But what joy you would have if they walked up and said, ‘Thank you for being loyal to Jehovah! Your example motivated me to return to serve Jehovah!’ Remember, in all cases, being loyal to Jehovah is the most important thing.”
Misrepresentation to the outside world
The recording of the shunning talk was just one of a series of audio files that were made available to JWsurvey.org. Interestingly, an announcement was read out at the start of the convention, which stated: “Any recordings of this program should be for your personal use or for the benefit of those unable to be present. Recordings should not be made available for general circulation, or distribution.”
Anyone who listens to the shunning talk will understand the Society’s concern in wanting to keep a lid on what instructions are given to Witnesses behind closed doors. Like many religious organizations, Watchtower is acutely image conscious, and wants to make sure it can control the facade it presents to the outside world – even if this involves using deception.
For example, in 2011 a journalist for the Independent quizzed Watchtower representative Rick Fenton on whether the Society ostracizes (or shuns) so-called apostates. Fenton replied by describing ostracization as a “personal matter for each individual to decide for himself.” Then, in early 2013, another Watchtower representative by the name of Vincent Toole described shunning as a “myth” when questioned by an Australian reporter. (click here for article)
Even the Society’s official website, JW.org, goes to considerable lengths to conceal the extent of its shunning practices. In its FAQ section under the question “Do You Shun Former Members of Your Religion?” an evasive answer is given that leaves the reader bewildered and none the wiser. The four-paragraph ‘answer’ can be summarized as follows:
- Paragraph 1: talks about how inactive Witnesses are not shunned, even though the question specifically refers to “former members.”
- Paragraph 2: ignores the fact that the question is about shunning entirely and discusses the judicial process, mentioning that not everyone who sins is disfellowshipped.
- Paragraph 3: mentions that family heads are not subject to shunning – one of only two loopholes that is provided (the other being children that are too young to leave home).
- Paragraph 4: sums up by explaining that disfellowshipped persons are invited to meetings, ignoring the fact that nobody will be allowed to speak to them, including their family members, which is shunning.
But the Society hasn’t just lied about its practice of shunning and shied away from discussing it on its official website. This new YouTube video highlights a quote from a 2009 Awake! magazine that lambasted other religions for causing family divisions, thus implying that those who choose to become Witnesses will never face this predicament.
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family.” – g7/09 p.29
If only Watchtower could itself live up to the standards it expects from other faiths.
The backlash begins
Predictably, many current and former Witnesses who have seen the video have been saddened and outraged by it. Those who are themselves on the receiving end of shunning have especially expressed their dismay that this is the sort of propaganda their Witness family members are being pummelled with.
Of course, there is nothing unusual in the actual instructions conveyed in the talk. Those who are familiar with the Witness faith know about the extent to which shunning is enforced, and that it is principally intended as emotional blackmail. What makes the talk unusual is the manner in which the speaker brazenly and forcefully spells out that shunning is something Witnesses are compelled to do, even to children, in total contradiction of the image Watchtower seeks to portray to outsiders.
Now the talk is being circulated on YouTube, it is hoped that more non-JWs will be made aware of the enormous pressure Witnesses are under to inflict misery and heartache on their disfellowshipped loved ones – all in the name of “loyalty.”
It is also hoped that Steven Bell, who so passionately and enthusiastically defended the harmful policies of his Governing Body masters, does not rise any higher up the Watchtower leadership chain. If he were to ever become a Governing Body member himself, based on this talk, I shudder to think how further radicalized the organization might become in the future.
Further reading…
- PDF transcript of Steven Bell’s talk: English | Portuguese
- JWsurvey articles on shunning
- JWfacts article on disfellowshipping and shunning
- An Open Letter to Jehovah’s Witnesses, by Robert Crompton
- Stephanie Hammond’s blog article “Shunning the Shunners”
- Patheos.com article
Related videos…
If some who are disfellowshipped return to the Organization only to be able to associate with their families, what does that say about the lengths the Society will go to to get members? It reeks of hypocrisy, approved by the WT., when one returns, not for their love of Jehovah God, but for a rather normalcy with family life. The Org. actually suggests this type of blackmail. What type of religious group, who claims to follow Jesus Christ, would even propose such behavior?
Predicted: Watchtower legal will claim copyright on this public talk and have it pulled from YouTube.
Interesting prediction Anthony, that may well happen.
J’ai quitté l’organisation volontairement (54 ans dedans), car dégoutée de leurs fausses révélations et de leur totalitarisme. Je ne le regrette pas du tout malgré que ma famille (que j’ai amené à l’organisation avec d’autres) ne me parle plus du tout. J’ai découvert
que les horribles “gens du monde” avaient en fait un coeur en or beaucoup plus que certains T.J. L’organisation perd beaucoup d’adeptes et devient une bête féroce. Ouvrez vos yeux !
Upload it to some video-streaming sites [vimeo, etc.], from various accounts, and if they remove it, you can quickly change the embedded code in your article. Thus way, they would always just go circles. ;-)
I swear they make me sick to my stomach! How long can this go on????????
The information in this video when questioned by a member of this society, would be defended to the demise of anyone who dares speak out against it. Its unimaginably difficult to sacrifice and entire life of friends family and love – even if it is to escape the clutches of deception.
what about the words in the bible about love …
“Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evill but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.”
I do believe that it will go on for as long as the flying scroll is operation and it has done it’s job throughout all the religious and political and secular organizations.
Obviously the flying scroll has to work overtime when it comes to the organization of Jehovah’s witnesses, the deceptions and injustices are not quite so obvious to those who were never affiliated with the organization, but they are obvious to those who were once part of the organization and also to some of those who are still part of it.
But honestly this is a very sobering scriptural that a humble man who was standing on the street outside a shopping center once showed to me quite a few years ago now, and I will quote it for you here.
Zechariah 5
1 ¶ And I again lifted up my eyes and looked, and, behold, a flying scroll!
2 And he said to me, What do you see? And I answered, I see a flying scroll; its length is twenty cubits, and its width ten cubits.
3 And he said to me, This is the curse that goes forth over the face of the whole earth. For from now on everyone who steals shall be cut off according to it; and everyone who swears from now on shall be cut off according to it.
4 And I will bring it forth, says Jehovah of Hosts. And it shall go into the house of the thief, and into the house of the one who swears falsely by My name. And it shall remain within his house and shall finish it, and its timber, and its stones.[LITV]
They can do whatever they want to do. They use the same exact mind control tactics utilized by Jim Jones with his Peoples Temple back in the 70’s. If you are unfamiliar with this insidious tragedy, do some research on it. You will be surprised how similar his mind-controlled methods were in keeping his membership, very much like the JW’s. They have my sister and her daughters trapped in that mess, but fortunately for me, my son and all my other family members are not JW’s. They’re shipwrecked on that island by themselves. I’m moving on with my life and my sister being involved with them is not going to make me come back to Hall.
I’m done with this cult,it’s over for me and I have definitely moved on. I have broke the programming and unplugged from the matrix. Sites like this Cedar make it easier for me to see the clarity and rightness in my decision. I have three good friends and I consider these women in my life my new sisters. They accept me for who I’m and show me unconditional love. I sincerely pray that more individuals will able to hold on to their standards and integrity and not give-in to the ruthless, mean spirited, evil machine called the Watchtower and Tract Society. I did not leave God I left a well, oiled man-made machine that has self-righteously imposed itself as a true representative of God.
At the end of the day…all of us are individuals who have to make decisions (sometimes hard, gut-wrenching ones) on how we want to live our OWN individual lives and I can’t compromise my life, goals and dreams because one of my sibling chooses to be involved in a cult. It’s her life…..this one is mine and I’m going to live it with no regrets.
The Watchtower is under fire in Denmark because of these hate speeches. Check out the info here:
www (dot) dr.dk/Nyheder/Andre_sprog/English/2013/07/25/132435.htm
Of course, the Watchtower is saying they are not discriminating and that they are just quoting the Bible:
www (dot) dr.dk/Nyheder/Indland/2013/07/25/151958.htm
Note the second one is in Danish. Use Google Translate.
Article 266b of the Danish Criminal Code, under which “any person who publicly or with the intention of dissemination to a wide circle of people makes a statement or imparts other information threatening, insulting or degrading a group of persons on account of their race, colour, national or ethnic origin, belief or sexual orientation shall be liable to a fine, simple detention or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years”.
Cedars,
I wasn’t able to watch the whole video…it might be my end…or it could have been sabotage as predicted.
None the less the article and other comments were great!
I would like to point out that Matthew chapter 10 is not even about disfellowshipped ones, it’s about xJews that converted to Christians and trying to convert other Jews and in the household causing divisions when a husband may be interested in the Apostles message and the wife is opposed to the new Christian message. So in my view the scriptures have been used out of context and misapplied.
Also in our Hall there are a few of us Df’d on the back row, and thankfully some of our family members talk to us about “necessary” business as it is a matter of “conscience”…good on them for not being robots, happily I don’t think this talk will make a difference. Having said this though..one Dad has taken a rigid unbalanced stand…and the child on getting reinstated in the future promises never to speak to the Dad again… I think this is really damaging and confusing to young children and grandchildren. It will have a lasting and detrimental effect on this family for good now.
Nice to be back Cedars
70wksofyrs
Interesting that the JW spokesperson failed to mention what qualifies as ‘apostasy’ these days. I suspect that Jesus spent most of his time people who didn’t agree with him, given his role, so that comparison on the part of JWs is worthless. He would have been accused of associating with apostates, therefore of supporting ‘snakes’ and ‘viruses’ under the current regime.
Somehow these guys have to figure out that religious freedom also has limits in modern society. If your system of belief tells you that human sacrifices are required by the faithful to demonstrate loyalty, you do not have the ‘freedom’ to practice that form of religion. I think the same standard should be applied to practices that violate human rights or promote mental harm. You simply do not have the right to harm others because of your belief system.
ok now that I know I can post. I have a son who is in and on the fence but doesn’t talk to me because im DF’ed. He is talking with his sister who is DF and brother who is disassociated. I think in time he will get over the fence and finally get out!! My mom once said that this religion has done nothing but ruin her family. But when you look at these people who stay in, it’s nothing more then mind control as no one is holding a shot gun to their head. But in a sense they are holding a mental shot gun to your head with all that they write and require of you. Since the advent of the internet and the exposing of the hypocrisy of the WTBS and its Governing Body members they have no choice but to really tighten the grips on the remaining loyal ones to not GOD but those 8 Men who self profess to now be the FDS. How much lower or what tactics they will use to further the distance between them and normal people remains to be seen. this video is outright disgusting and has not one sense of True Christian love in it. It is cult type talk with an aim at keeping the relatives who are left in it. To Bad To Bad you WTBS as your ways are being exposed to the masses everyday. Your fall is coming quickly as a thief in a night. And oh don’t worry not one of us so called “Mentally Diseased” people will predict a date as we rely on Gods word the Bible exclusively!!! We see the real Truth and are not False Prophets!
Just a after thought. I wonder if the Bethel brother who gave the talk has any children and what age is he? No doubt he has no fellow feeling from the deflection in his voice shows. He is Dramatic at best and would not make it as a real actor. The scripture at matthew as previously stated had nothing to do with the WBTS rules on shunning. It is so unbelievably mis quoted in its entire context. The more I hear of the writings that are approved by the FDS the more it tells me they are so so far from perceived reality of real life as it is. Furthermore it has no basis on Jesus own words. As usual mis-quoting and twisting the scriptures to fit their own agenda not Gods. His words should say are we being Loyal to the WTBS period.
Oh was that a Bethelite brother? I thought it was Kermit the Frog. My bad.
You’re killing me…. :-) !! Kermit…
Who’s in charge here?
Without waxing Scientology–this is a clear example of how the Watchtower uses our reactions and emotions to control not only those who remain inside its “approved” borders and outside in the disapproved or renounced areas. It’s similar to way a divorced couple can get at each other through their children’s actions or statements, or an ex-significant other abrasively rips their former partner’s emotions by words through friends or actively being seen with someone to evoke envy. You will have feelings about them, or for them, so have an emotional reaction inside (or acted-out).
The simple term is “get over it”, but how? Turning off feelings is not a quickly performed without an awareness of when we’re sensing those emotions arising and coping mechanisms to channel the feelings into something constructive rather than self-destructive.
This is why leaving, or dropping-out, requires a support system–be it a non-JW friend who can bring a balanced view of the situation, or better a licensed therapist who can reflect our feelings and assist in realizing where these moods are deriving. Then, once recognized the individual can take measures to find constructive coping mechanisms and defenses.
For example, the Watchtower’s beliefs and philosophies on shunning is known by those who were in “it” not by those outside. Asking, Do I really need some wet-behind-the-ears Bethelite to tell me this again? and, on grainy YouTube [bootleg cellphone] video to tell me this, again? I think not. Yes, I can use it to convince others that “I’m not crazy”. {like Joann King posted}
But, rather than react emotionally, take it for what it is–further proof of the Watchtower’s total-authority & dominance over individual’s lives rather than nurturing relationships with Jesus and the Father, it is choking the life out of individuals and draining their wallets for its “greater cause”. When continuing to react, one remains under the influence, if not control, of the Watchtower.
I truly don’t mind hearing this over and over again, if by posting it on my FaceBook, some of my friends will at least know to stay away from them when come a knockin’. It’s not so much about educating exJWs because we already know what we already know, but there are lots of people out there who haven’t a clue. It’s about making everyone aware of how damaging this cult is.
This has been one of the most serious, sobering, eye opening posts on this site. It totally smacks of jealous control issues. It is a textbook case of damaging persuasive indoctrination. Thanks.
I was raised as a Jehovahs Witness but faded away when I left home. Love my family dearly but now my elderly father and baby sister have been disfellowshipped recently. I’ve been researching the faith recently, since this happened. I’m familiar with most of it still, but your site and Wikipedia have been an amazing eye opener! This is heart breaking and I hope they will break free since they do not listen to differing / opposing opinions. Thank you for providing the information.
The talk didn’t mention disassociation at all. I know that the Society thinks it’s the same as disfellowshipping, but it’s still interesting disassociation wasn’t mentioned in the talk. I disassociated myself, but I don’t practice sin, and I never talk about religion with my family who are JWs. Are they still required to shun me?
Anonymous, yes, your family are still required to shun you. There is no difference in that respect between disassociation and disfellowshipping, which is likely why disassociation wasn’t specifically mentioned.
Joanna Foreman,
You are right. it is like fighting an infectious diseases. Much efforts should be directed to those not yet contaminated. An example of HIV/AIDS, “prevention is better than cure”!!
Were. U a JW b4?
Is that question for me? If so, I am still a JW now. I am just inactive.
Thanks for sharing the video, Cedars. The fallacies, double-speak, blackmail, and the mandatory misrepresentation of scripture coming from the WT was mind-numbing. So nice to continually exceed our (rather low) expectations of them.
You wouldn’t happen to have a transcript of this talk so we can really tear it to pieces, would you?
Good news Isabella! I’ve produced a transcript of the talk, which is available on this link: http://jwsurvey.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Transcript-of-2013-Shunning-Talk.pdf
Cedars,
you are “active” not “inactive”! You are really saving many souls though you cannot measure it.
Now, what do you think of the GB quoting Micah 7:5 (which is the same as Matthiew 10:32-38)?
The injustices practiced by the wicked leaders affect all of Judah and Israel. Micah 7:5 notes that a lack of justice has led to a lack of trust between companions, confidential friends, and even marriage mates. Verse 6 indicates that this has led to a state of affairs wherein relatives as close as sons and fathers, daughters and mothers, despise one another. (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/l/r1/lp-e?q=w03+8%2F15+p.+20+par.+9)
There JUDGING THEMSELVES??? Don’t you think so!!
What do you think of this? Plagiarism? To give weight to the talk the man says the word’s are Jesus’. Why not Micah’s?
Micah 7:5-6 reads:
Do not put YOUR faith in a companion. Do not put YOUR trust in a confidential friend.+ From her who is lying in your bosom guard the openings of your mouth.+ 6 For a son is despising a father; a daughter is rising up against her mother;+ a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law;+ a man’s enemies are the men* of his household.+ (http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/b/r1/lp-e/33/7)
Matthiew 10:32-38 = Micah 7:5-6. Indeed, Micah 7:6 says “a man’s enemies are the men of his household” and Matthiew 10:36 says the same.
I tend to think that if the talk was based on Micah 7:5-6 it WOULD MEAN LESS and many families would escape this “POISONOUS TALK”!!
Don’t forget how unbaptized publishers that either decides to leave JW or get reproved so they are no longer unbaptized publishers also should be treated just like disfellowshipped ones. This affects children even younger than 7 years.
Paranoia runs deep…
Hint, hint, did anyone read the entire article–who is the “voice of Jehovah”? [try to hold your lunch down]
You see this is not new, Having been “inside” since 1960’s , shunning was always told to us, try to ignore bro’s or sisters in your own house. Once you became old enough you where kick out of house if you were shunned. Now beening much older and in the disfollowshiped section, I have not spoke to father, mom, 2 sisters for over 15 years. they have not even anything to do with the grandkids (never seen them). This is not an reglion at all, it is an cult, what ever is hand down as the word from head office they will follow blindly no questions asked, kool aid any one?
Where the injustice part of this should strike is WHY are persons disfellowshipped? The first answer for most r/f is “you committed a wrongdoing”. Nope. There’s other lighter forms of disciplines that can be applied. D/F is at the discretion of the elder body and maybe some escalations to HQ. So, being d/f is a body of men making a judgement call, NOT any thing to do with JEHOVAH coming down and declaring someone “evil”. These same MEN thus impose their will onto those subservient to follow the orders to ostracize someone of their blood and kin. There’s no room for counseling and assisting someone to grow; the decision to d/f as stated is arbitrary and often capricious. It is not consistent from ruling to ruling in the same congregation, and certainly is not consistent from congregation to congregation, or country to country. Often the inconsistency is justified by “someone wasn’t repentant” or “failed to show remorse”–no one knows because the judicial committee is allegedly a sealed door meeting. We do know that individuals committing the same offense are not meted the same justice or due-process in these “kangaroo courts”.
Thus, to take the bold step of abandoning family or friendships is clearly a cult-like move to isolate “loyal” adherents to the viewpoints of the reigning leaders, and note I said the viewpoints of the leaders not Biblical views.
There was a time and not very long ago…when I could listen to a talk this long and count the number of scriptures that were cited and read on my fingers and toes and possibly then some but the mere fact that he could orchestrate a full length “Mind Sc***” based on one and only one scripture is a powerful and disturbing statement of the changes that this organization has and is RAPIDLY undergoing!
OOH, thank you so much!!! (hugs)
Hello,
I managed to get my JW wife to watch this (she went to convention) and she is absolutely convinced that this was not said and this whole speech and the ‘human apostate’ speech are made up to make people turn against JWs. Now this is interesting because on one hand she is recognizing how bad these things are, but deals with it by calling it all lies and clever editing. Was this speech given as per the recording or is it an edited montage?
Zeebo – well done for showing the video to you wife. It doesn’t surprise me that she assumed it was contrived. This is a common “cognitive dissonance” response when JWs are presented with shocking things the organization has produced. Many JWs reacted the same way when they first saw the Sparlock video.
You can assure your wife that I have not edited the video at all other than to remove some of the background noise and make the speaker easier to listen to. If you want me to send you the original audio file of the entire talk, please contact me.
JBob,
You are right. Jehovah has nothing to do with all this. Imagine, you can appeal a decision of a judicial committee (e.g disfellowship). In the Elder’s Manual ‘Shepherding Textbook you will find things like “If the Appeal Committee Agrees With the Judicial Committee (11-15)” at p.106 and “If the Appeal Committee Disagrees With the Judicial Committee” (16-20) p.107.
Where is Jehovah in those stupid arrangements. How can “Jehovah Agrees with Jehovah” or “Jehovah Disagrees with another JEHOVAH”!!!! MAN MADE ORGANIZATION!!
Hi,
Thanks for the reply. I was sure as i found multiple copies on yourtube so cant all be contrived. And i found it very funny when she was saying that they took words and phrases out of context and then edited it. It reminded me of the famous ‘should you believe in the Trinity’ book that takes 3 saints and then completely changes what they said.. one being the father of trinity doctrine lol.
I was wondering why don’t they publish these on the jw.org site??? hmm if its a public talk then surely it should be on there.. I mean if Gods little helpers at bethel want this message preached trough the inhabited earth, why not put this divine message online for the world to see?
They use the word “Jehovah” to substitute for being loyal and pledging allegiance to eight men and a man-made printing company who self-imposed themselves as so-called true representatives of God. They are going hard because they are desperately trying to hold on to every living body they got in those seats.
More and more of their deceptive behavior is being exposed and the child abuse cases are ever mounting. They got to keep the last of the delusional die-hards in a bubble and they can’t have their non-witnesses relatives and dF’ed (now) well-informed relative pulling their coats on what’s really going on.
“Pay no attention to those eight men, I am the great and powerful Sparlock–er, Jehovah!!!” [rolling thunder (from down under?)]
Isn’t it rather curious that d/f relatives must be shunned, but pedophiles and pederastic elders get shifted from congregation to congregation and no disciplinary action as harsh as d/f-ing?
In our convention talk in Germany, propaganda campaign against apostates are recognized by public newspaper:
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/augsburg/Taufen-vor-der-Messehalle-id26432911.html?ga=mobil
The talk against apostates was directly before baptize talk. Bad luck ;-)
Bibelforscher August 2, 2013 at 3:35 pm
In our convention talk in Germany, propaganda campaign against apostates are recognized by public newspaper:
http://www.augsburger-allgemeine.de/augsburg/Taufen-vor-der-Messehalle-id26432911.html?ga=mobil
The talk against apostates was directly before baptize talk. Bad luck ;-)
Sehr Interresant,
Wie ist die allgemeine Stimmung in Deutschland? Um die Zeugen Jehovah’s…
Für mich ist es mehr als zwanzig Jahre, 6 Monate vor die Wende seit Ich in Deutschland geworden war und Ich weiss daß viel geändert hat!
(Es war nie gut vom Anfang!)
I’m an x-j , and I left by my own decision. Blaming the org is pointless and limits your ability to truly think for yourself. All human social groups use shunning as a method of compliance with the group’s “code”. What religion does it- all do in one form or another. Catholics were far worse but have have acquiesced in order to maintain their flock (aka Revenue Stream) . The failure of the JW’s to grow by any significant measure is largely due to the strict adherence to their code. Foolish from a fiscal perspective. My guess is the leadership is deluded by their own hubris in believing they actually know the “Truth”, or they are happy with the current size of the org and maintaining the status quo is sufficient for their finances and desire for power.
The truth is all organized religions are “false prophets”. To give the JWs even this level of investigation and scrutiny only legitimizes their existence. For those involved, frankly I have no empathy. Their desire for social acceptance outweighs the wisdom of their own thoughts and questions, and therefore they have chosen their path. If they shun you for leavin, then they have chosen their own desires over their love for you. Those that abide by such rules are the ones that give the rules power. Don’t blame the org, blame the people who stick with it- it is fulfilling their needs- and THAT is why they don’t leave and shun those that do.
In essence, It’s no different then being shunned by a group of “worldly” people when you don’t engage in activity they are– like drugs. Try to hang in a group of people doing drugs and be the straight guy.
If you don’t like JWs – leave, and don’t look back
Anonymous – your comment gives new meaning to the phrase “sweeping generalization.”
It is most certainly not true that, “all human social groups use shunning as a method of compliance.”
Though you claim to be an Ex-JW, your parting shot smacks of an apologist, i.e. “if you don’t like it, why not just leave.” There is absolutely no excuse for ANY organization to encourage the shunning of family members, and it is most certainly not the case that shunning is commonplace in all religions or “social groups.” Those like me whose lives are impacted by this and other harsh policies are well within their rights to stand up for themselves and do something to highlight the problem.
I have been disfellowshiped for 10 years and i am sadden by this hardened view! I remember starting in 1974-1980 a much more merciful attititude was displayed and many came back.This is so so very sad……
Wow! I was the only one out of all my family members who became a JW. I wanted to study the bible. I believed that by getting baptized I might get closer to the truth. I was a Jehovah’s Witness for about twenty years. I am not disfellowshipped which is very interesting to me as I am posting my contention all over the internet.
I cannot begin to imagine the mental storm children of Jehovah’s Witnesses have gone through. There are many explanations of scripture that they insist are true that make no sense. The bible is meant to be understood as a whole. But there is mom and dad insisting that what they are teaching their child is God’s Word. Then the child gets baptized to please his parents and to feel welcome as one of the group. He grows up and learns to think on his own and discovers the uncomfortable feeling he had about some things was right. Now what does he do? What if he is not old enough yet to break away?
Then there are mothers, fathers, grandmothers and grandfathers who must chose between being true to their own conscience or being true to their offspring. You do know it is not uncommon that when a person leaves for truth of conscious her family members that she leaves, who do not know truth, stay behind, do you not? I cannot imagine being torn like that. Many people stay because they believe family is more important than their own peace of mind.
I am so very happy I did not have to choose AGAIN like I chose when I became a JW. But my family never shunned me even though they all hated what I was doing. And now they are so sweet! Nobody said “I told you so”. They say “Whatever makes you happy!” God bless them!
It’s really criminal what they are doing, and in the end, Karma will come for them.
Yet I know in my bones, I have to move on, I have to take my life back and not worry about my relatives that are still in, they have made their decision and I have made mine and I’m okay with that now. I got to live my life right here, right now and enjoy every moment, or else I have allow this disgusting organization to even rob me of that and they have stolen way too much time from me already, won’t let them take anymore.
The thing that really gets me is that the children are raised with this threat of shunning. They are even trained in the proper method to do it to others. Everything is so black and white. Compormise is seen as a sin. There is no “agree to disagree” with the Watchtower. This hardly seems a good way to raise a child. I was raised this way and still find myself having to overcome being programed not to be empathetic towards others.
If a grown adult wants to ignore another grown adult relative or not, then sadly enough that is their decision. However, children are being encouraged to develop this same mindset and do the same. I even remember being told to shun the unbaptized children of disfellowshipped ones growing up.
The Watchtower may say it’s your choice to associate or not. What they don’t tell the public is that if you do choose deal with DF’d and DA’d ones, others in the congregation will exercise their “choice” and stop associating with YOU.
Hello Cedar, I thought the good people who read your excellent site should know the following:
1. According to the Watchtower’s latest slick film “The Prodigal Returns”‘ ANYONE who doesn’t follow bible teachings, even if they are good people, are bad associations!
2. I was disfellowshipped way back in 1994. I have gone on to live a full life, gaining a good education and creating a life of decency and conscience free of the GB and their pernicious lies.
I live with my mum in the family home. I am in my 40s. My father, who was never a witness, died 2 years ago on the 9.8.11.
Last week, my sister needed to take my mum into town. The only day she was free was the day that a young witness girl and her brother come to clean the house and the windows respectively.
I was already told not to talk to them, which I have followed.
This time, with my mum out of the house, I had to open the door to the young lady. I explained that mum had to go out, and offered the lady the opportunity to leave, or come back another day. She freely decided to continue. I retired to my room and left her to her work.
Later, after I thought she had left, I came downstairs and watched some tv. The young siblings were together, so I just ignored them as they want.
The young lady chose the anniversary of Dad’s death to inform my mum by telephone that she felt “uncomfortable” and will not clean for my mum anymore.
On the same day, the elders called and my mum will be having a shepherding call this afternoon.
I no longer care what the GB et al think of me, but my mum was and is really upset.
What should I do to calm this troubled sea?
Your advice, and that of the other commenters, would be gratefully received.
Best Wishes, George