Do Jehovah’s Witnesses genuinely care about the general well-being of ordinary people beyond the confines of their religion? Such a question might sound strange to some, but after taking a closer look into their interaction with the public it becomes not only reasonable, but necessary.
If you posed the question to a Jehovah’s Witness at your doorstep you’d likely get a lengthy monologue describing his or her organization as the most “loving” on the earth.
But do Witnesses really care about people outside of their bubble? A recent troubling development in Rio Rancho, New Mexico, brings that question into sharp focus.
Jim Mura’s life plans were tragically altered when he suffered a traumatic brain injury in a freak ocean swimming accident. Suddenly, his lifestyle was one where simple communication and movement was extremely difficult. His wife, Janet, became his caretaker.
The two of them had reason for concern when their local congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses decided to build a kingdom hall next door.
You see, one of the few joys in Jim’s life is gazing at the Sandia Mountains, a view of which is afforded to him by his dining room window. But having learned that the new kingdom hall would obstruct this view, the couple decided to confront the Jehovah’s Witnesses with their concerns.
They received verbal assurance that the hall would be built so that Jim’s view would not be blocked.
Once the concrete was poured, Jim and Janet were shocked to find out that the kingdom hall was being situated in a position that would indeed block his view of the mountains.
Again they confronted the Witnesses and discovered that the decision had been made in spite of their agreement.
If the Witnesses had upheld their agreement with the Mura’s and complied with their wishes, the parking lot for the kingdom hall would lose the space for three vehicles. These few parking spaces were thus deemed more important than the needs of a severely disabled neighbor.
As a group that professes to be the only true Christians, shouldn’t Watchtower’s love for their literal neighbors be of paramount concern? Should it not supersede any material or strategic gain?
I was a member for over two decades, and will always remember a common mantra: “let your yes mean yes, and your no mean no.” (James 5:12) I recall this concept being drilled into my mind from a young age. So, it’s astonishing for me to witness an entire congregation’s refusal to uphold such a simple agreement with a person in need, namely that he could continue to have access to an attribute that directly influenced the purchase of his property.
Tragically, the law sits on the sidelines on this one. Morally, what’s happening is loathsome, but the Watchtower is breaking no actual laws. All that can be done is to protest peacefully against this moral travesty as it unfolds, and raise awareness.
If you would care to show your support for Jim and his wife, please visit their official Facebook page: Save Jim’s View.
Even with the concrete poured, I imagine there are still creative ways to grant Mr Mura his wishes. Hopefully, Watchtower will have a change of heart and allow his current quality of life to be uninterrupted. Only time will tell.
Further reading…
Scrubmaster – Whether this was JW or any other religious/secular organisation or even an individual, the outcome for this handicapped man would be the same, admittedly. However, in this instance it was JW. But why are we comparing JW with other Organisations? Please don’t think that I am being self-righteous, but if I were going to build a property I would do my homework first and that would include taking my neighbours into consideration.
Jannai Hear Hear: my sentiments exactly. Especialy if you claim to be a Christian organisation. ” Love does not look for its own interests,” 1Corinthians:5
Personally, I would have a hard time enjoying the view from this Kingdom Hall, knowing it was causing mental pain to the person and his family that had the view first and my elders took it away from him, just for 3 parking spaces. It seems cruel and heartless to me, especially if different arrangements could have been worked out without causing this family mental pain. When I read this story, I felt so bad for this man and his family that I wanted to get on the phone to those elders and scream and yell at them. That is how I feel about this story.
I am glad it got on the news. The elders deserve the publicity.
It was not the jw a san organización that gave then the promise. It was an unauthorized member who did it.
As you may know, construction’a laws vary from country to country, and even in different states within a particular country. Maybe in Britain the Watchtower Corporation would not be allowed to “spoil” a disabled person’s quality of life just for the sake of three parking spots. Well, that’s not the case here in USA, and certainly not case in New Mexico. If you do your research, you’ll find out that the watchtower is building according to local laws. There is no problems with it. They already applied to the local authorities and submitted detailed plans. And everything is ok. The authorities agreed with them. And don’t tell me USA is not a civilized country.
I can honestly tell you that I’m saddened by this story. But what I found weird is the fact that this story appeared in this website just because it involves JW. Be honest with yourself: do you thing this story would be here is the people involved were Muslims, Catholics, or the Cientology?
Norman Bateman: Well I expect they have their own websites dealing with their own issues. Look at the ones set up to help Mormons. But you are missing the point. This is not a point of law. It is the fact that they dont seem to be bothered about this mans view. It doesnt matter that they have permission by law. Three parking spaces less and the problem is solved. Interestingly here in the UK (except northern Ireland) People who work with children are under no statutory obligation to report known or suspected child abuse, even rape. They may decide to do so, but it is entirely discretionary and there is no sanction for failing to report. Just because its law, doesn’t make it moral.
Norman,
No, this story would not have featured on this site. What an obvious observation! This site is dedicated to revealing the true nature of the religion you are trying so hard to portray as a good influence on society. Your leaders bleat on about how holy their organisation is and how it is the sole channel for God.
I notice that you haven’t answered my questions about the WTBTS’ child protection policy.
I will ask again. What do you think is best about the WTBTS’ child protection arrangements? Which aspect of them protects innocent children the best? Do you think that the application of the “two witness rule” is appropriate in cases of child molestation? Do you think that the police should be called as soon as abuse comes to light? Why is the WTBTS appealing the Conti case?
I am genuinely interested in your point of view. I eagerly await answers to my questions about the child protection policy of the WTBTS.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
“Why is the WTBTS appealing the Conti case?”
…
Because the outrageous sum of money that Ms. Conti is attempting gain would come from donated funds. Hard-working people of little means from around the world have donated funds to allow for Bible instruction and education (printing literature, paying for expenses of special full-time instructors, and so forth). Why should God’s organization willingly give millions of these donated dollars to this woman? The man who is alleged to have misbehaved in this incident may be liable to provide financial compensation for her emotional distress. However, I would strongly suspect that the appellate courts will exercise good judgment and reverse the decision to levy grotesquely large fines on a nonprofit association.
As to the ethics of the matter, the situation is misunderstood. It is the job of the police to investigate crimes, not the spiritual shepherds. The handling of sin is separate from the handling of criminal conduct. Those who have been led astray by the sly talk and persuasive speech of the apostates should seriously consider the fact that God and Jesus are actively controlling the congregation today. All that takes place is by their decree.
“Who Will Go” you stated:
“Because the outrageous sum of money that Ms. Conti is attempting gain would come from donated funds.”
Perhaps you should get your facts straight. Ms. Conti did not ask for money. She only wanted Watchtower to admit to not protecting her from sexual abuse when she was a child. To admit their wrongdoing and to stop their two-witness policy. To start protecting innocent children inside the organization.
She did not want money, that is why she would not accept a settlement offered by the Watchtower. The one she would have been required to sign an agreement to never talk about the case again. That is the way Watchtower has been spending your contributions, quietly setting lawsuits from those who had a court case, after making the victims sign a confidentiality agreement.
It was the court who decided that Watchtower should be punished for their treatment of victims of child abuse and for ignoring the law and protecting pedophiles within the congregation.
Why don’t you do the research for yourself? You will find it quite enlightening.
Who will Go when God’s Kingdom Comes. Okay you are just some one with nothing to do trying to make post just for the heck of it. By the way if you really did study the bible. The reason the organization could be held liable is because they knew about it and did nothing. By the way did you use this argument in favor of the Catholics when these things were brought to light in their religion? No I am sure you did not. You know the scriptures do talk about compensation when an individual was wronged. Sin and criminal conduct are one in the same in this case. If we were talking about adultery your statement may make sense this would be a sin. One final question if one Witnesses saw another Witness steal something, lets say a nice watch. Would you say then this is a sin and not a crime and the Witnesses should just let it go and not report it?
Imacountrygirl thinks for bringing that point out. Many people has been awarded a large sum of money at the hands of the court.
1) Why are you disobeying the directives of the Governing Body by visiting and commenting on this site?
2) Are you the same individual as “What Will Happen to the Apostates?” that made comments on a recent article?
I would love to see the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society have to pay out $100 million to abuse victims. Maybe then what they do and say to threaten the victims to discourage them from turning in the abusers to the authorities would finally be made public worldwide so that every witness in the world will finally see how they have been “taken” by this corrupt organization that is a huge business trying to pass itself off as a charitable religion and stop putting their hard earned money into the contribution boxes. As far as building a Kingdom Hall in front of that disabled man’s house is giving a bad witness to everyone in that community. Is that the kind of publicity they want? What it tells this community is that the witnesses are cruel and heartless. Just because you can get away with doing something that may be legal, doesn’t make it okay with God. Wasn’t Jesus’ biggest thing, to be “humble” and not to be stumbling “little” ones? This man is helpless and needs for people to look out for him, not take advantage of his inability to stand up for himself. Liars are liars. If the people in that community hate the Witnesses for what they did to that man, they deserve it. I am a witness in good standing and I am not proud of what these men did. I am ashamed of it.
1 – 1 Peter 3:19
2 – Yes. I have to change my name and IP address every so often in order to evade the bans of the wicked slanderer Cedars as he tries to suppress truth.
I’ve just had a good chuckle at this jerk’s latest email address, “apostatesaresoontoberemoved@gmail.com”
…apparently the “removal” of those who voice a different opinion to 7 blokes in New York is not happening quite soon enough for some!
Sadly, in my country very few brothers and sisters have even heard of Candice Conti. When I contacted the child protection elder at our Bethel he told me he knew nothing about it – he said why would he it’s nothing to do with him, it’s in another country! Of course, if brothers and sisters did know then they would know where their contributions were going. I think we are beginning to get the picture here – it’s not rocket science! Most brothers and sisters are completely ignorant about what is happening with regard to child abuse within the Organisation. Because of their application of the two-witness rule an environment for paedophiles has developed within the Organisation. We cannot just turn our head and look the other way.
Who Will Go – by the way, are you sure you are a JW – if you are then you are being very very naughty!
@cowboy,
You seem not to know that Satan is a brother of Jesus. Other Jesus’ brothers are DEMONS according to JWs. They believe DEMONS are Jehovah’s sons who escaped him and invaded our planet to have SEX with human women and have children with them!!!!!!!!!!!! (Genesis 6:2-4)!!!!!!!
“What is the truth”? The truth is that finally Jehovah killed his grandchildren in a great flood and JESUS’ SPIRITUAL BROTHERS (Demons) escaped once again. They survived the flood and are still challenging their father Jehovah using what we people call “Jehovah’s Organization”! FORNICATION is still the main problem among Jehovah’s Witnesses! Demons have found a subtle way to enjoy sex with humans through the organization!!
@Who Will Go When God’s Kingdom Comes?
You are ignorant! You should have called yourself “Who Will Go When God’s Kingdom Comes BACK?”!
God’s Kingdom used to be somewhere in the Middle East when killings and sex were INCENTIVES to Jehovah’s people of then.
(Deuteronomy 21:10-14) . . .“If you go to war against your enemies and Jehovah your God defeats them for you and you take them captive, 11 and you see among the captives a beautiful woman and you are attracted to her and you want to take her as your wife, 12 you may bring her into your house. She should then shave her head, attend to her nails, 13 and remove the clothing of her captivity, and dwell in your house. She will weep for her father and her mother a whole month, and afterward you may have relations with her; you will become her husband and she will become your wife. 14 But if you are not pleased with her, you should then let her go wherever she wishes. But you may not sell her for money or treat her harshly, since you have humiliated her.
Man, enjoy a sister and leave us alone! “But if you are not pleased with her, you should then let her go wherever she wishes [even if she joins apostates, … let her go].
What would be so great is if somebody, anybody who wants to defend the Watchtower as actually being the “truth” can come up with something that makes us feel as if we haven’t wasted our lives on a false religion. That is what I am looking for but instead all we get are trained parrots who repeat Watchtower sayings and then stand back and admire themselves for being “smart”. Please say something to convince us we haven’t wasted our lives. That is what this site is for. We aren’t apostates. We actually want to be “proved” wrong.
Imacountrygirld: I think I underestimated you. The Conti case couldn’t have been explained better. “He who speaks much teaches less”. You are good. Sorry.
Anonymous, are you still an active JW?
Whowillgowhengodskingdomcomes, your organisation has been erroneously predicting God’s kingdom and the end of the world time and time again since 1869, reminds me of the Chicken little fairy tale “the sky is falling, the sky is falling” DON”T HOLD YOUR BREATH
Who will go….,
I ask again, for the 3rd time. What do you think is best about the WTBTS’ child protection policy?
Which aspect of the child protection policy do you feel best defends children from the many paedophiles hiding in your religion?
Do you believe that the two witness rule should be applied to child abuse and domestic abuse cases?
Your answer about the Candace Conti case tells me that you are ignorant of the facts in this case. Why don’t you go and read the articles on this web site and then give us a second opinion?
Do you look forward to the day when I am killed by God and birds eat my flesh? You seem obsessed with what will happen to people who have left an American offshoot of the 7th Day Adventists.
Do you believe that only JWs will survive Armageddon?
Stop avoiding the hard questions. Stop replying to questions with inaccurate responses.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
What will….
Are you preaching to the spirits in prison?
I am not in a prison of any kind, thank you. I am free man.
I have pity for you. You have allowed others to define your morality and now here you are trying to defend the indefensible.
I am not a spirit. I am a human being, so why are you here anyway? You will never convince any of us to go back to a flawed and dangerous religion. So why are you here?
You stated in your reply that “God and Jesus are actively controlling the congregation today”. If we follow your logic, then it is God and Jesus who are covering up child abuse and domestic abuse in your religion. Is that what you meant? After all, according to your view, they are active in the congregation. Therefore all abuse is tacitly approved by God and Jesus, is it not?
I would be very worried if I were you. If there is indeed a God, and Jesus didn’t die on a cross to keep his friends alive, then you have indirectly accused them of approving the rape of children and the beating up of defenceless women.
Would you call the police and tell them all you knew if a person came to you and told you that they had been abused by someone in the congregation? This is the same congregation that you believe is actively run by God and Jesus. Or would you contact your local Bethel and wash your hands of the whole affair?
As I said, I pity you. You have allowed people to tell you that good is bad and bad is good.
I await your response. I wonder what inappropriate name and email address you will use this time?
I am always Excelsior, and I always will be.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Can I respond in his behalf if he is an Active JWs.
(2 Samuel 12:11-14) . . .Jehovah says: ‘Here I am bringing against you calamity from within your own house; and before your own eyes, I will take your wives and give them to another man, and he will lie down with your wives in broad daylight. 12 Although you acted in secret, I will do this in front of all Israel and in broad daylight.’” 13 David then said to Nathan: “I have sinned against Jehovah.” Nathan replied to David: “Jehovah, in turn, forgives your sin. You will not die. 14 Nevertheless, because you have treated Jehovah with utter disrespect in this matter, the son just born to you will certainly die.”
Jehovah is the one covering up child abuse and domestic abuse in JWs. He is the one who started all stupid JWs do!! Thay are imitating their god!!
(Matthew 19:12) . . .Let the one who can make room for it make room for it.”
bateman: I have posted comments that dont always go through. I dont immediatly suspect the site. I simply repost. However there are terms and conditions below.
No, they wouldn’t post it here, because this site is about this specific organization. Therefore, it reports on the actions of this organization.
I am sure this would have been a problem even if it had been a corporation. Have you ever heard of instances in which communities try to block Walmarts or other buildings going up in their neighborhoods? Especially considering it sounds like they went back on a promise, even if it was only verbal.
I dont see anything wrong with calling out hypocrisy in “small” things as well as big. They are really the same.
@ CEDARS
Ok so this is an important matter. An unauthorized person made a promise and now everyone here is condemning JWs because they didn’t honor it. Now, Who’s gonna condemn Cedars for not honoring the promise of not publishing the readers email addresses? This is his promise:
“Your email address will not be published”. If only you had honor Cedars.
You also violated your own guidelines about commenting in this section. “ABUSIVE COMMENTS – Do not post comments that include swear words or may be considered abusive, lewd, blasphemous, obscene or threatening
ILLEGAL COMMENTS – Do not post comments that condone or propose illegal activity, or that breach copyright law
OFF-TOPIC COMMENTS – Do not post comments that are off-topic and bear no relation to the page or article”
Calling somebody a jerk is abusive and obscene. Publishing an email address is threatening and propose illegal activity. Imagine how many insulting emails will that reader receive from haters. Would you accepts comments calling you a JERK? Why don’t u post your own real email address? Also you comment about someone’s email address bear no relation with this article. You are off-topic. So if you honor your promises, then you would remove yourself from this section. And block yourself from commenting again.
Just look what u posted before and see how it is in your case:
“If no promises were made, then there is little to discuss with this story. But if a verbal agreement ( in your case a written and public agreement) was indeed reached, then it should have been honored. And for this congregation (moderator of this site) to go back on their promise for the sake of three parking spaces (publishing a readers email address) says a lot about the moral fortitude of the Witnesses (Cedars) involved.
The elders in this congregation,(John Cedars) if the build goes ahead and blocks the view (as you already posted a reader email address) no longer have “freeness of speech” when it comes to honoring agreements or showing concern for neighbors, and that’s a huge shame for them( YOU, JOHN CEDARS)”
You, Cedars are not different from the jw society and governing body that you hate so much. You dislike people that are against your opinions, just like the GB is against people who don’t share it’s teaching. You criticize the Wt because they disfellowshipped people that think different then them. You “disfellowshipped” people from this commenting section because they don’t share your opinions. Where is the freedom of speech that you offer? I have answer many of the questions here, and they haven’t been posted here.
Btw the email address you posted says: “apostates are soon to be removed”. You said that won’t happen anytime soon. I can certainly tell YOU ARE WRONG. If you follow the guidelines for commenting in this section, you should be removed and that would mean one “apostate” less in this site. But that would happen if you are different than any single Jehovah witness in the earth and honor your promises. That will make you even better than any member of the governing body of JWs.
Your argument might begin to hold water and not look like the pathetic piece of sniping that it is were it not for the fact that the email address in question is….
“apostatesaresoontoberemoved@gmail.com”
You are entitled to take this address seriously if you like, i.e. not something that has been concocted purely for the purpose of trolling this site, but I’m afraid I don’t share your breathtaking naivety. I can fix a lot of things, but I’m afraid your stupidity isn’t one of them.
And so, now that you have likened me to not just one Governing Body member but the whole stinking bunch, allow me to do the following…
*Prohibit you or your loved ones from certain medical treatments, resulting in death if necessary
*Allow your children or the children of your brethren to be raped by someone who has been concealed by their local elders at my orders
*Have you cut off from participating on this website, and
*Manipulate any believing friends or family who you love to shun and hate you for the rest of your life until you recant and acknowledge my greatness
On reflection, it looks like I can only do one of those things.
Ah well, so be it.
Cedars, I’ve only been commenting on this site for a few days and you certainly get a good laugh here. Of course I know there is a serious side to it but I’ve always enjoyed your sense of humour!!
@ Who Will Go When God’s Kingdom Comes?
1 Peter 3:19 – “In this state also he (Jesus) went his way and preached to the spirits in prison…”
1) Does this scripture overrule the directives given in the Watchtower magazines by the Governing Body concerning reading and commenting on the blogs of “apostates”? If so, does this apply to all Witnesses or just a select few?
2) What is your position of authority within the Watchtower organization? Are you an elder? A circuit overseer? Bethelite? Watchtower and Awake! magazine writer?
I am convinced you have at least some influence within the organization based upon several reasons: (1) Your presence on this site (against the directives of the Governing Body as found in the Watchtower magazines) (2) Your grammatical and spelling skills (atypical of the average JW rants I have come across on the Web) (3) Your knowledge of the Candace Conti v. Watchtower Bible and Tract Society appeals case (something which many of the average Witnesses still know nothing about) and (4) Your commentary and statements looks worthy enough to be published inside of a Watchtower Study Edition magazine for the rank and file Witnesses to mentally absorb.
JWIntellect – great questions. I wonder if now the GB is trying to find out who are secretly still in the org and providing information for sites like this. Maybe this person is hoping some one will slip up and reveal who they are so this can be reported to the local Elders. I mean it has to be disturbing to the GB confidential information is being leaked. Wow – I just read the comments again. It does sound like something straight out of the organizations books and the way some one of authority would speak. Heck it maybe coming from Bethel directly. If we could trace the IP that would be interesting…oops did I say that out loud?
Hi Jannai. I can’t in good conscience preach anymore but I do attend meetings but I am trying to fade. I live in a small town with people who I have been close to in the “truth” all my life and so going to meetings and assemblies is so very hard for me because I love all those people so much and it kills me that I am not allowed to tell them the real history of the organization. I hate the Watchtower for their lying. They should admit to the real history and let people decide one way or the other if they want to stay in. I am not an apostate to the truth but for lies, I am an apostate to the lies. As long as the Watchtower won’t come clean with all the lies and cover-ups, I am a witness in name only but my hands are tied in telling anybody about how I really feel.
I believe that when Rutherford came up with the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses” in 1931, it was a commonly used name for God then but since then, research shows that in the Hebrew language, that name means God of Trickery which could only be another name for Satan the Devil. Today I went to the 1 days special assembly day and listened to those talks and every time the speaker was talking about “Jehovah” etc. all I could think in my mind is “do you realize the name you are calling God by has to be making him angry?” How can so many people be so misled by the Watchtower? I believe the Governing Body can’t be that stupid and it’s deliberate.
That actually might be the case. I do recall reading a comment (can’t remember exactly where I read it) about the Watchtower actively seeking out the individual(s) leaking out the confidential information to Cedars and others. Whatever the case may be, this is obviously one of the members within the organization to whom the rules do not apply. Governing Body member, perhaps?
Lol. And yes, you did just say that out loud.
Also, I forgot to mention that he already stated that he changed his I.P. address. But it’s already been quite clear that headquarters has been watching sites like this even before his appearing on the scene. I mean, dallywally72’s YouTube channel has been permanently shut down, this site has been shut down before for a period of 24 hrs., and 21crosscheck21’s YouTube channel has also had some Watchtower visitors as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=th3icZWUfis
They are watching, indeed.
I think we need to think how others will think of us after reading this thread. By others, I mean JWs, people studying with JWs, or people generally pro-JWs. I think they will see us as being bitter, angry, and petty. I wouldn’t be surprised if pro-JW forums (are there such things) reference this thread and laugh at us and use it as “evidence” that we’re just a bunch of petty bitter fools that are angry that the Armageddon hasn’t come and therefore left the organization. In fact JWs might use this thread as “proof” to show their Bible studies that may bring up what we’ve brought up on the internet that are real issues, that we’re just angry and bitter and out to make the organization look bad no matter what. This thread doesn’t make us look good, except to ourselves.
Hi Anonymous, thank you for replying. You are certainly not an apostate in the scriptural sense – so no worries there. You no longer go out on field service, but for the right reasons – matters of conscience. It is hard not being able to tell our brothers and sisters about the Organisation, but I believe we cannot do that until they are ready to hear it, otherwise it may be too much for them to take in and could cause them harm emotionally especially to those who are vulnerable – so perhaps for now you are showing them love by not telling them, but the time may come when you can – so pray and be patient. I’ll have to do some research regarding the name Jehovah – where did you get your information from? Try not to worry about that for now – pray to your Heavenly Father. Our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are aware of all that is happening within the Organisation and they have not abandoned us. Pray for peace, it is a fruitage of the Holy Spirit and is obtainable. Please read 1 Corinthians 10:13 and have faith that eventually you will find your way out. It sounds to me as though you are on a journey which many have travelled and it is not an easy one. Begin to read the Bible from the Book of Matthew, without the Society’s publications, and think about Jesus Christ. (Matthew 11:25) Enjoy your Bible reading.
Hi Anonymous, thank you for replying. You are not an apostate in the scriptural sense – so no worries there. You no longer go out on field service, but for the right reasons – matters of conscience. It is hard not being able to tell our brothers and sisters about the Organisation, but I believe we cannot do that until they are ready to hear it because it may be too much for them emotionally. So perhaps for now you are showing them love by not telling them – but the time may come when you can. I’ll have to do some research regarding the name Jehovah. Refer to Him in prayer as your Heavenly Father and not Jehovah. Our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ are aware of all that is happening and they have not abandoned us. Begin to read the Bible from the book of Matthew, without the Society’s publications, and think about Jesus Christ. (Matthew 11:25) Enjoy your Bible reading.
Brother David,
Please do not assume to speak for my reason for leaving the. WTBTS. I did not leave because Armageddon hadn’t come, so please stop saying that.
If non Witnesses and current Witnesses were to read the thread, I do not believe that they would react as you state.
On the contrary, they would read an open, reasonable and polite disagreement between people who respect each other.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Normon and/or What….,
Still no reply to my questions then? What a surprise! Would you like me to ask them again?
Instead, there’s a pathetic cry of “no fair!” from you about Cedars calling you out for what you really are. A jerk. The email address you chose was deliberately provocative and intended to insult us, wasn’t it? What if I chose an email address like “alljehovahswitnesseldersarepaedophileprotectors@gmsil.com, would you be offended by that? I’m sure you would be and so I don’t choose deliberately provocative email addresses because I’m interested in an open debate.
You are. To interested in an open debate. You are only interested in defending the indefensible and trying to airbrush the tarnished image of your religion.
You quote the posting rules as if they are legally binding. They are called guidelines, and John has the choice to enforce them or not. This is his site, not yours.
I am certain that if you decide to answer my questions honestly, that you will be allowed to post.
So how about answering my questions (which are off topic but allowed) on the fourth attempt?
What do you think is best about the WTBTS’ child protection policy?
Which aspect of the WTBTS’ child protection policy protects children the most?
Do you think that the “two witness rule” should be applied in child abuse cases?
Why does the WTBTS not always immediately call the police and assist in their investigations when child abuse is alleged?
You need to understand that we are not going away. We will not be silenced. The truth about your religion is now to become common knowledge. The days of your power are ending, sir, and not a moment too soon.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Sorry, damn iPad! The sentence should read. You are not interested in an open debate.
Love your neighbour as yourself.
Hi Jannai.
I had to get a Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible off of Ebay to have it in my hands to prove it to myself when I found out what Jehovah means in the Hebrew language. If you go to the 1980 Watchtower Feb. 1, page 11, you will see that the Watchtower credits a Spanish Monk by the name of Raymundus Martini with coming up with the name of Jehovah in 1270. So it was the Catholics who first came up with the name in various forms. There was no J in the Hebrew language but the Tetragrammaton would have read yhvh backwards which is in the Hebrew scriptures for God. In Strong’s #3050 for Yah for Jah for the sacred name and H is #1943 ho-vaw’ or hovah which is another for #1942 which means mischief or ruin, eagerly coveting, rushing upon, desire, calamity, michievious, naughty, noisome, perverse thing, substance, very wickedness. Who would this describe except Satan the Devil?
I had to get the Strong’s to prove it to myself. I didn’t take anybody’s word for it. It was cheap off of Ebay.
I know many people call their boys Randy in the U.S. but in England, it has a bad connotation so how do we know it is alright with God to be called something that actually would describe Satan in the Hebrew language when the Tetragrammaton was originally written in Hebrew? When Rutherford gave the Bible Students the name of Jehovah’s Witnesses without doing his research on the name, it started a movement that couldn’t be stopped. How would a religion that calls itself by such a perverse name change it’s entire course? It has to be completely reorganized. People need to know the whole truth about the organization and then then decide if they still want to support it. They need to know just who are the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. They need to be able to examine their beliefs in the light of Scripture to know if it’s really the Truth or not. If they can’t, then it’s a cult, pure and simple. Liars can’t be the “Truth”.
So happy this fam can remain their view at the mountains. But..Wow… Lot’s of comments no doubt about it. One thing for sure:: I am glad I am out of that organsiation and I must say… I am a very happy person, enjoying my life and have made lots of new friends. I dont need any organisation to rule my life. No one to tell me what to do when it comes to attending a Christian meeting or whatever.. so please everybody who is still in this organisation please do your research… To all my ex JW friends who are shunning me day by day.. I still love you and always will…
You have a valid point except that they promised them to not block their view. If they had no intentions of not honoring such an agreement, then the promise should never have been made.
@ Excelsiors. Firs of all. I’m not complaining about Cedars calling me Jerk! That’s because I haven’t offended him. For your information, the email address I was talking about is not mine and if you read carefully you will understand that it belongs to someone that’s was blocked and open a new one in order to comment again. I am not insulting anyone here, I’m expecting to be respected to.
Second. It does matter the email you chose, because that email address is not supposed to be published. That’s the promise in this website. And Cedars doesn’t honor that promise. Why? You, Excelsior, explain that Cedars has the choice to enforce the guidelines or not. This is his site, not mine or yours. And let me tell you something: I understand that. If he can do whatever he wants to do in this site even violating his own rules, why the JWs cannot build whatever they want in his land, after all they are the genuine owners of the properties. And they are building according to local laws. No one is violating Jim and Janet rights. But Cedars violated this reader right: privacy, because now his email address is public and knowing you guys, you are going to insult this guy to death. He violated a written promise. How loving cedars is, right?
That’s what I see that Cedars is not diferent that the Governing Body of JWs, because as Cedars has noted, they just want to do whatever they want to do without showing respect or consideration to other people.
Now, I don’t want to answers your questions because are off-topic in this article, and you were smart enough to realize that. Once in this article I commented something that was a little bit off-topic, but was reject. I don’t want to waste my time if I know that my comment will be reject. Also, I’m requesting Cedars and everyone here to limit your comments to the information of this article and do not post comments off-topic. How can I answer questions off-topic and at the same time asking you guys not to do it? That’s not smart.
How do you know for sure that my answers will be posted? Because Cedars can manipulate information, just like the Wt society and GB do manipulate information. That’s the power behind corporations and sites like this. Everyone wants his own advantage.
I’m not crying about anything. Here I am acknowledging Cedars right to do whatever he wants to do in this site. Of course, I don’t approve that he violate is own written promise and guidelines.
I’m not expecting that you or the “apostates” go away. I was just saying that if Cedars had honor and was honest, he would block himself for violating his own guidelines. And that would mean one “apostate” less in this site
I thought for a while on whether to block myself or Norman. After much prayerful deliberation, meditation and pacing up and down I decided on the latter.