After running JWsurvey for more than two years, the time has finally come to share my story.
Why has it taken so long? Because when I first set up this website I was still technically a Witness – constantly in fear of reprisals from my family or my local elders if my true identity was ever discovered.
Now, after much discussion and soul-searching, my wife and I have both made the decision to part ways with the organization – regardless of how our Witness family responds.
There are multiple reasons for this huge leap, the main one being that my wife is pregnant. Both of us refuse to raise our child in a religion we know to be false, or to allow any of our relatives to attempt this with the excuse that we are still Witnesses – which would be the case if we remained inactive.
Taking this stand has come at considerable cost – a cost imposed on us by Watchtower. We have yet to hand in formal letters of disassociation, but we have let our family know gradually over the last few weeks. This has resulted in a considerable backlash.
On my side of the family in particular I have been subjected to insults and character assassinations – attempts to call my motives into question and frame me as “selfish” simply for acting on my convictions, and standing up for my own beliefs.
My father (who is an elder) hasn’t been abusive, but he has reaffirmed that he will be shunning us the moment things become official. We spent a few days vacation together in picturesque Northern Croatia before I sat him down and attempted to explain my position.
After I revealed the information on the UN/NGO scandal to Dad by showing him newspaper articles from 2001, he was initially nauseous and didn’t want to hear any more. A day later he told me he refuses to hear my side of the argument, and will be shunning me once things are official. In his mind there is no contradiction that he will be spending his time trying to persuade people of other faiths to challenge their convictions, while refusing to hold his own beliefs to even the slightest scrutiny.
It has been deeply hurtful and distressing for me to witness my own father, who I deeply love, surrender his reason and common sense with so little struggle – especially with so much at stake. It is still more distressing that I am being blamed for any shunning that ensues even though these are Watchtower’s rules, not mine. After all, I am happy to have a relationship with all of my Witness relatives no matter what they believe.
The more I observe the utter refusal of certain family members to even listen to my reasons, and hold me to a decision I made when I was 11, the more obvious it is that I am escaping a manipulative cult where independent thinking is ruthlessly crushed and loved ones are considered expendable wherever loyalty to the Governing Body is concerned.
You may well ask what brought me to this stage, and how I came to doubt my beliefs in the first place? I am writing a book on this at the moment, but I will do my best to present a summary of my story in this article.
***When this article was written, I still felt the need to keep my real name secret due to concerns over my family. Since then I have decided to be open about my real name, which is Lloyd Evans, but I will continue writing under the moniker “John Cedars” since that is the name so many people know me by.***
An unconventional upbringing
I was born in Manchester, England, in 1979 and raised in Wilmslow, which used to be a quiet leafy village in the suburbs, but is now a wealthy neighborhood known for its celebrity residents – mostly footballers and their wives.
I had an upbringing in which Armageddon was very much a real event that could strike at any moment.
One evening, our family worship featured an “Armageddon drill.” My father received what turned out to be a fake phone call telling him that the Great Tribulation was upon us. My family was to hurry to join the brothers and sisters at the local kingdom hall, because we would all be heading off to Macclesfield Forest to make our escape from the authorities under Satan’s control.
I remember running upstairs and frantically stuffing various items in my rucksack, including a recently released book called Revelation – It’s Grand Climax At Hand incase I somehow needed it. In that moment I was convinced I was witnessing the end of the system of things.
It was only when I came downstairs and saw the smiles on the faces of my parents and sister that I realised the joke was on me.
I was baptized in December 1990, age 11. I remember my mother crying at my baptism. In the years that followed I did my best to make my parents proud by being an exemplary Witness youth.
My parents were not as strict as others in our congregation, so they encouraged me to go to college after high school. I studied art for two years. Even so, it wasn’t long before I felt the pull of pioneering, in no way diminished by the constant pressure from the platform for young ones to pursue full-time service as a “career.” I started regular pioneering in September 1998 – the same month that I was announced as a ministerial servant. I had just turned 19.
The following year I experienced my first “crisis of conscience” when the Daniel book (or Pay Attention To Daniel’s Prophecy) was released at the “God’s Prophetic Word” District Convention. I remember being initially very excited. I felt I would be able to relate to it more than the Revelation Climax book, which by now seemed crazy and garish to me. I took my copy of the Daniel book home and read it quickly.
As I devoured its convoluted reflections on bible prophecy, feelings of disappointment slowly overcame me. I encountered various explanations of scripture that simply did not add up. For example, how could the Roman Empire become Anglo-America in one prophecy, but become Nazi Germany (an enemy of Anglo-America) in another? Should there not be some kind of consistency in God’s inspired word?
The more I dwelled on this and other issues, the more I suspected that the Governing Body was simply making things up as they were going along – “shoe-horning” scriptures to fit historical events.
My doubts eventually came to the attention of my Presiding Overseer after my ministry partner snitched on me. He took me aside one afternoon while on field service, listened to my issues for a while, and then said: “Listen, I just want to know one thing. Do you believe in 1914, or not?”
When I said that yes, I believed in 1914, he said, “Well that’s all that matters!” – and our conversation was over. After this bizarre exchange, I pressed ahead with my progress as a Witness, but always with niggling doubts in the far reaches of my mind.
A life-changing tragedy
Then in 2001 my world collapsed when my mother died of breast cancer. I was 21 at the time. Mum first fell ill in 1999 but received treatment, including a mastectomy, which forced her cancer into remission. But it resurfaced a year later and consumed her very quickly, despite aggressive chemotherapy. On May 9th 2001, Mum’s doctor gave her three weeks to three months to live. She passed away 12 days later while we were on our final family holiday in Cornwall.
Mum’s death forced me to push any lingering doubts as far back in my mind as I possibly could and soldier on with my “career” in the organization. After all, serving Jehovah loyally was my one and only chance of being reunited with her in the resurrection. I couldn’t let her down.
When I was 22 I began applying to attend MTS (now the “Bible School for Single Brothers”). I was finally accepted at the age of 25, and attended the 29th Class in Britain at the Assembly Hall in Dudley. I was thrilled and extremely proud, not least because by going through the course I was fulfilling one of my Mum’s dying wishes.
Mum had told me in one of our final conversations that in the resurrection she wanted to see a video of my MTS graduation. She didn’t know that the filming of graduations is prohibited by the organization, but simply by going and graduating I knew I would be meeting her expectations. I would film what I could while I was there, just in case.
Attending MTS was a mostly uplifting and enjoyable experience. What I most appreciated was the camaraderie and friendships with guys my age from all over the UK and parts of Europe. It felt as though there were little or no distinctions between students who were ministerial servants (like me) and students who were elders. We were all sharing the same experience together as those seeking to learn.
During the course there were one or two moments that made me stop and ponder, such as during one class when our instructor told us to put a line through some words in one of our volumes of Insight on the Scriptures. Apparently this change was required because of “new light” since these books were published.
The words we were asked to delete can still be plainly seen on current versions of Watchtower Library. I thought to myself at the time, “If these words are so wrong that we are being asked to delete them, shouldn’t ALL Witnesses receive similar instructions for their Insight Volumes?”
After two months the class came to an end, and I graduated along with 21 others. My Dad, sister, and some of my close friends came along to what proved to be an emotional graduation ceremony. I was interviewed and asked to relate my experiences leading up to the course, including the death of my mother and the fact that I had quit my job in order to attend.
At the end of the graduation I joined my classmates in singing an acoustic rendition of “Life Without End At Last” with my guitar. The audience erupted in applause. It felt like I had reached the pinnacle of my achievements within the organization. I was determined to put my training to good use.
A year after my MTS, I flew out to Croatia for a reunion with a number of my classmates. One student, named Miroslav,* invited us to spend some time with his congregation in Sisak, about an hour’s drive south from Zagreb.
It was in Sisak that I met my future wife, who was pioneering at the time. After a few months of getting to know each other through emails and phone calls she agreed to move to the UK so that we could pursue our relationship.
Six months after her arrival I proposed to her with a cheap silver ring (all I could afford as a poor pioneer!) on a row-boat in the middle of a windswept lake in the Lake District. She accepted, although later joked that she only said “yes” because she wanted to get off the boat!
We were married in the summer of 2007 on the Croatian coast, and honeymooned in Venice, Switzerland and Paris on our drive home to the UK. On our return, we resumed pioneering together in the same congregation.
We began married life living in a small basement flat in a rough part of Stockport. The sound of police sirens screeching through the night formed the soundtrack to most of our evenings. Looking back it was an inauspicious start to our new life together, but it was all we could afford as pioneers on part-time wages. In fact we couldn’t afford even that, because we soon started to slide into debt.
The call to elderhood, and the anti-climax
In April 2008 I was thrilled to be appointed as an elder. I felt as though I could finally put my MTS training to full use, and take a more active role in helping people. I already loved giving talks, but it was the shepherding side that I was really looking forward to. I was anxious to help people with their problems in any way I could.
But it wasn’t long before reality started to sink in, and I began to see what being an elder was really all about. I soon discovered that elder bodies are intensely political, easily manipulated by strong personalities, and that elders are most definitely not appointed by holy spirit as Watchtower so often claims.
Our congregation had a particularly thuggish Presiding Overseer (now known as a Coordinator) who seemed to delight in bullying the brothers and making their lives miserable. He would think nothing of counselling a brother who bought a new Range Rover on being too materialistic, or imposing arbitrary rules on a teenage boy not to socialize with a young sister he liked.
When I did my best to correct this bully elder’s overbearing behavior in the only way I could think of, I was chastised for going about it in the wrong manner. I was kept as an elder, but stripped of certain privileges, including my pioneer status.
My wife also had her pioneer status removed at this time, even though she had nothing to do with my elder issues. I was told that, since both of us had been failing to meet our hour requirement, I was to break the news to my wife that she too was no longer a pioneer.
And so, after eight years of selfless full-time service for the organization in two different countries, my wife was unceremoniously sacked as a pioneer through her husband without so much as a “thank you.”
My lowest point
But these troubles were soon to pale into insignificance when my wife made a heartbreaking discovery. She learned that, though I hadn’t cheated on her, I had been fraternizing with girls on the internet in ways that I shouldn’t have done as a married man. I had a big issue with cyber sex and pornography, which I had developed as a teenager, and which remained with me even into my marriage.
I am not proud of my actions, and to this day I grimace at what I put my wife through. She has never been anything but loyal and loving, and it saddens me that I hurt her by betraying her trust so early in our marriage.
I also feel it was hypocritical of me to accept an appointment as an elder with the aim of helping others and offering spiritual guidance when I had so many issues of my own to contend with. I was living a double life and being dishonest with people.
Even so, I can’t help but consider these actions to be very much a by-product of sexual repression in my formative years. In particular, I think of the difficulties I had in finding a marriage partner from a narrow pool of Witness girls, and the unscriptural Watchtower injunctions designed to induce guilt over masturbation.
Of course, I accept responsibility for my actions and I do not blame Watchtower for everything. After all, plenty of Witnesses seem to develop into well-balanced adults without these problems.
But my wife and I both now realise that sexual repression in my upbringing was a major factor. It forced me into finding ways of satisfying my natural sexual urges as a virgin without intercourse so as to remain “morally clean,” and this led to an unhealthy dependency on the internet and pornography.
Once my wife discovered my problem we had a number of emotional exchanges. Decisions needed to be made. My first instinct was to sweep things under the rug and work things out between us, but in the end I decided to stand down as an elder and move back to the congregation I had grown up in to receive discipline.
Apart from anything else I knew I wouldn’t get a fair trial from the bully elder, who would doubtless want to make sure I suffered further for daring to question him. This matter involved my wife and I, and not him – so I chose to receive my punishment from elders I felt I could rely on to be impartial.
I wrote an exhaustive confession in a letter and posted it through the letter box of my new Coordinator. Before long I was summoned to a Judicial Committee and made to relive everything I had done in excruciating detail, despite my signed confession which had already explained everything.
At one point I remember being reduced to tears. By the end of it all, it was decided that I should be reproved and not disfellowshipped. However, my reproof was to be publicly announced both in my new and former congregations to make it clear that I had done wrong during my time as an elder.
A fresh start
Around this time my wife and I agreed that we needed a fresh start, so we decided to move to live with her parents in Croatia. Our years spent pioneering had left us with very little money and a mountain of debt, but we at least had an opportunity to build an apartment for ourselves without worrying about rent or mortgage payments.
And so we packed up our belongings and made the move across Europe to Croatia in the summer of 2009. At the time I recall being determined to restore my spirituality, and maybe even work my way back to serving as an elder again eventually.
For the first few months in my new congregation I continued under the restrictions from my reproof in the UK, meaning that I couldn’t answer up at meetings or participate in any talks on the Theocratic Ministry School.
I was reduced to being a mere observer at meetings that I could scarcely understand due to the language barrier. I knew a few words of Croatian, but certainly not enough to follow closely what was being said.
Before long, something unexpected happened. My identity as a Witness disintegrated as I could feel myself being unplugged from the indoctrination. For the first time I began to ask myself, “What do I truly believe?”
I recalled my doubts about the Daniel book from when I was 20. I found I was able to add a number of other issues and teachings that I could no longer agree with. Eventually I sat down and wrote a list of nine “grievances.” When I looked at the list, it was obvious to me that I was now only a Witness in name only. There were just too many things wrong with the organization for it to be the “truth.”
Eventually my restrictions were lifted and I began giving Bible readings in Croatian on the school meetings. Elders would give me encouragement, leaving me with the impression that I would be re-appointed before too long if I just put forth a little effort. But by this time it was too late. I was already waking up.
Then one day in May 2011, after pouring out my feelings to my wife, I decided to declare myself inactive. I felt I needed to let my Dad know of my decision by telephone. I recall him being heartbroken. I broke down in tears once I had finished talking to him. No son relishes the idea of being viewed as a failure by his father.
I wrote a letter to my elders briefly explaining my reasons for being inactive. In hindsight, I realise that my elders could have very easily taken this as a letter of disassociation and severed me from the organization there and then, but for some reason they didn’t want to do this. At least, not to begin with.
Stalling the inquisition
Two elders visited and we had a long and tearful discussion. I explained that I would still be attending memorials each year (to keep my family happy, in my mind) but that I could no longer go preaching when I had so many doubts. They chose to respect this, so I assumed that would be the end of it.
Around this time a new elder joined our congregation from Zagreb bethel, and he soon learned of my inactivity. He decided he didn’t like the way things had been handled, and convinced himself that there must be more to my decision than I was letting on.
This elder pulled my wife to one side at the end of one meeting and interrogated her in the back room, asking questions about my behavior and quizzing her as to our business affairs. My wife and I run a small business, and he and others had come up with a theory that I was staying on as a Witness just so I could exploit Witnesses when handing out work.
All of this happened at roughly the time I finished reading Crisis of Conscience and learned of the 1980 witch hunt against the likes of Raymond Franz and Nestor Kuilan. It felt very much like my elders had me in their sights in the same way, and were determined to disfellowship me on any pretext – real or imagined. All they needed now was a chance to grill me for information having failed to get anything from my wife.
I received a phone call from an elder asking to arrange a visit, but I told him in no uncertain terms that they had broken the rules by interrogating my wife without me being present, and I would therefore not be cooperating with any attempts to offer me “help” until I received a full apology.
Predictably the apology never came, and I was finally left alone. If there was one thing I knew I could rely on, it was the pride of elders and their tendency to deny doing anything wrong. This uneasy stand-off gave me the freedom I needed to explore my new reality without being immediately separated from my family.
The birth of JWsurvey
As things settled and I grew accustomed to my new life as a “fader” I continued to trawl the internet for information. JWfacts.com in particular was a real eye-opener. It was on Paul Grundy’s site that I learned of the UN/NGO scandal, Rutherford’s letter to Hitler, and the Mexico/Malawi scandal. Barbara Anderson’s website also informed me on the complexities of the child abuse issue, and how Watchtower is causing real harm in that regard. Everything began to fall into place.
The more I learned, the more I wanted to share. I was also curious as to how many others like me were out there. I began thinking of ways to poll such ones for their opinions so that people could see at a glance what the consensus was among thinking Witnesses.
Then one day I proposed setting up a survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I began experimenting with ways of making this a reality. I thought it would cost a lot of money to set up, but an Ex-JW web developer and writer called John Hoyle came to my rescue completely out of the blue. He contacted me and essentially said, “If you want I can build you a website that can host your survey, and you won’t need to pay me anything for it.”
At first I thought it was impossible for a complete stranger to be so kind and make such an offer with no thought of payment, but I figured I had nothing to lose in accepting. Before long, JWsurvey.org was launched. The rest, as they say, is history.
A reason to take a stand
Fast forward two years or so, and yesterday I found myself attending a hospital appointment with my wife, who is three months into her pregnancy. This was our first opportunity to see our first baby in the womb by means of an ultrasound.
As the grainy images came up on the screen, I was overwhelmed with emotion. I could see our baby’s heart pumping in its chest. I could see its legs folded buddha-like beneath it. I could even see its fingers as its hands were raised almost covering its alien-like face.
The thought occurred to me, “I will love this person unconditionally its whole life, no matter what it thinks, says or does. I will never allow myself to be separated from it, no matter what happens.”
Unlike me, this child will be taught only proven facts – not religious dogma designed to reinforce the unquestioned control of an elite group of deluded theocrats who insulate themselves from even the mildest criticism.
There will be no “Armageddon drills.” There will be no fear, guilt, or paranoia. There will be only love and acceptance. My child will have all the opportunities I never had as a youngster – including the chance to build a life for itself doing and believing whatever it chooses, with my support.
Yes, my Witness family is bitterly disappointed in me. Yes, they view me as a traitor. But there is nothing I can do about that other than to build my own family, free of such rifts and divisions. Though this is proving traumatic for me, I cannot live the rest of my life bending over backwards to conform to the expectations of my indoctrinated forebears.
They may prefer for me to remain inactive, trapped in some sadistic vow of silence so that the mother organization can continue to wreak havoc undisturbed. But I refuse to tacitly bend my knee to Watchtower for a moment longer. A stand must be taken. A line must be drawn.
After all these articles it is high time for me to talk with my feet – especially with my child’s future at stake. Yes, fading is a great option if you can stay quiet and pull it off, and I support those who handle matters in that way. But if you are an activist like myself with something to say about Watchtower and the means to say it, you will find it increasingly difficult to keep it going for too long before something has to give.
The journey continues
I know many of you reading my story will be disappointed at my personal failings, but please understand that I am only human and never set myself up as a role model or spiritual guru for anyone. I am interested only in exposing the scandals and falsehoods of an organization that claims to represent God as honestly and journalistically as possible.
I have not the faintest interest in drawing off followers, preaching alternative doctrines or telling people how to live their lives. I am interested only in revealing the truth about Watchtower, and I feel my experiences within the organization, both good and bad, put me in a great position to do this.
Nothing I write should be considered as beyond question – in fact I am happy to receive criticisms and make changes to articles if needed. I am committed to using my energies to join with other more seasoned campaigners in informing the world about what I view as a damaging cult, which I see tearing my own family apart and threatening countless others.
To all those who have sent messages of support and solidarity over the past few days via Facebook and email, I give my heartfelt gratitude. It is not easy to make this stand. I have shed more than a few tears, but I know what I am doing is right.
By going through this pain now I am sparing future generations from the same problems. I want to give my child a life free from fear and indoctrination, with the opportunity to explore this amazing thing called life without the shackles of ignorance and servitude. I can think of no finer legacy to pass on.
*Miroslav has recently been disfellowshipped for apostasy. On his facebook profile, he identifies himself as a follower of the Bible Students.
Translations: Romanian | …
Related video…
Cedars,
I’m so happy for you and your pretty wife! Although I pictured you both much older, we are close in age. My intelligent teenager’s disinterest in WT articles and boredom at meetings helped push me to restudy all the “truths” I previously grew up believing.
Your website was one of my first non-JW sites I ventured onto and I’m so thankful I did. Your site, jw.net, jw.facts and Barbara Anderson’s site all provide so much support and help us to regain our critical thinking skills.
Congratulations on you, your wife and future baby having the freedom to think and show unconditonal love, as it should be, within the family.
Fascinating. So many questions, about so many things in this story.
Fascinating indeed.
~skally~
Congratulations to you and your wife on the pregnancy. I hope your wife and the baby are both happy and healthy. I do have some questions to ask. And please do not take this as disrespectful in any way. Whatever your decisions are regarding the raising of your child are yours and your wife’s to make. My questions are, in raising your little one what will be your stance as to your former religion? Will you tell him in an honest and frank manner why you and your wife chose to leave? Will you allow him access to WTBTS literature in an attempt to be fair and open minded? Will you allow him to spend time with your family, being that they are still jws? And what if as an adolescent your child decides that he wants to attend meetings at the kingdom hall, or study with one of Jehovah’s witnesses?
Again, please don’t take this as me poking at you with a stick. But I have often wondered about this exact type of family dynamic, and how it would be treated. If you feel is none of my business, then that is an acceptable answer to me also. I’m just a very curious person. I had to ask.
It is not for me to answer for Cedars regarding his child’s religion. But I will write this.
Any child brought up with a decent education and positive and caring parents who have taught it to think, is highly unlikely to fall for any of the nonsense peddled by the Jehovah’s Witnesses. The JW target market is the lost, the lonely and the vulnerable.
I was taken in as five year old. But my mother was a loony; hence she was easy prey for JW horror stories, and at five years old my only reading besides the Watchtower drivel was the Beano. I had no armoury of reason and information whereby to counter the Kingdom Hall destructive obscenities.
The best case scenario would, of course be, that by the time a Cedars infant may be asking questions about the origin of life and its purpose; indeed the sort of questions which led mankind to inventing religion in the first place, the Jehovah’s Witnesses will have buckled under the exposure from all fronts that the internet provides, and will be nothing more than a grubby little footnote in the history of Christendom.
You’re right, its not your place to answer for Cedars. I honestly didn’t care to hear your opinion. But since you gave it, I’m sorry that your mother was an unstable person, I certainly would wish that upon no child. I myself was raised by physically and emotionally abusive parents. They were Jehovahs witnesses, but that wasn’t the driving force behind their bad parenting. Honestly it was because of their lack of applying what the bible says about how to raise children that they were bad parents. I have not found any reason to blame Jehovah or his organization for the way my parents acted. In fact if it weren’t for the loving members of the congregation, especially the older sisters and the elders, I’m quite sure my life would have turned out a total wreck. I still have a hard time coming to grips with why my parents were how they were. But, I know one thing for sure, that is neither what I have been taught as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, nor is it how I would treat my children.
@potcall – for what it’s worth, bad parents can be found anywhere, and you are correct not to assign blame to JW organization for your bad parents. However, it should be noted that abusive parents in any other environment would have been reported to child-protection or government agent of the land charged with protecting a child’s interests. In a recurring theme, abuse issues are covered-up and not brought to light because there is a culture of not “ratting” on a fellow JW sister, or brother, because it might bring bad publicity to the Watchtower Society. Let’s be honest, God Almighty can take care of himself, if the rep needed protecting one ‘zap’ would do it, so it’s the corporate image that one protects by not bringing up the bad behaviors of its independent unpaid, contractors/agents.
So, as protective as you are and appreciative of the “caring sisters” who sheltered you, we must be honest in saying that they were enablers not protectors.
Merci Cedar,
Bravo pour ton courage. Depuis le début je lit chacun de tes articles avec bonheur. Avoir enfin le privilège de te connaitre un peu me rempli de joie.
Soit heureux dans ta nouvelle vie, tu es libre ;+)
rough translation via google translate :
Cedar thank you,
Bravo for your courage. From the beginning I read each of your items with happiness. Finally have the privilege to know you a little me overjoyed.
Be happy in your new life, you are free; +)
I recognise you!
As a fellow Mancunian, any time you want to talk feel free to drop me a line. Congratulations to you and your wife.
Take care,
Matthew
could you please give much details about this book (Early Church Fathers) ?
thanks
@Jbob
Not true at all. The reason no action was taken is because we were scared to say anything because of our parents. Not due to anything the elders or the organization did. Trust me, my parents were very good at putting on appearances. Trust me I feel plenty guilty for not saying something at a much younger age than I did. After all I have 3 younger sisters, and no one wants to see anyone go through that. Don’t put words in my mouth about the Older sisters I mentioned. You don’t have to know someone’s entire life history to show them compassion and love. As far as the elders are concerned, I never disclosed until a much older age what my parents were really like. That’s on me, not them.
March 3 2011 is when I put my dissacociation letter on the literature desk.That’s the day I took my soul back from the governing body.I faded but still had issues with the idea that they still could disfellowship me.I didn’t want to look over my shoulder my whole life to see if there were any witnesses there.Since then I got married and took my life back.That’s what its all about,making a stand no matter what.Personally I think those old men sit up in there watchtower all day and play with a Ouija board and talk to”Jehovah” all day.They really are just getting there info from there own faulty subconscious minds.I love Ouija boards though:-)
I really do think the GB is into negative occultism,you need to pray and do whatever you feel to protect yourself.They send there bad karma on ex-JWs.I’ve experienced this in a real psycological way;I really do think these guys are into black magick or something because you can leave,but”it” dousnt want to leave you.Every day is a struggle.
@Joel Eastman
No that’s called having a conscience and realizing that what you are doing is wrong.
@potcall i feel for you i personally know several individuals who went through the same lot on life as you did. What dusturbs though is the obvious lack of humanity displayed by some on this website. If you give an anti-jw experience about your life they come to your defense, yet if yoi give your own life experience that happens to show that dispite a rough life it is possible to be happy in jehova’s organization they attack or impune bad motives on thosr that helped you. Just sad. I cannotspeak for cedars but from what i have read about this websites purpose that was not his intent.
What a pity! Cedar lost the real truth, his family, loving brothers and sisters and Jehovah’s approval. The only thing he won is the approval of the few ones who have not endured and “have shrink back to destruction” (Hebrews 10:39) and seeking some surrogates on this site of self-pity and despair. And we have good news for all who want ‘to destroy the evil Watchtower Society’ and who forget that Jehovah himself is blessing his people. Last service year we had a Peak Publishers: 7,965,954 = 2,4% increase over last year. Regular Pios: 997,123 = 8,2% increase. Average of Bible Studies: 9,254,963!
Reply,you don’t know me.And I don’t Write lengthy blogs,I don’t believe in the bible at all.I’m a pagan,I woodwork,drink red wine while I listen to King Diamond.That makes me happy.If your pro society,your a world away from my spirituality:-)
This site was so very helpful to me. In May of 2011 I made my first post online as Camelot on Jwstruggle.com
I recall I spent a lot of time printing as much information I could to help my daughter who I brought into the truth to learn TATT. My daughter and her husband want nothing to do with me because I left. She is expecting her first child in May of 2014. It will always hurt but we only get one shot at this. I am raising my grandchild age 7 and the same was true for me. I did not want to put her through a “fade”…I am extremely proud of your courage. I wish your family all the best.
What a pity! Cedars lost the real truth, his family, loving brothers and sisters and Jehovah’s approval. The only thing he won is the approval of the few ones who have not endured and “have shrink back to destruction” (Hebrews 10:39)and who are seeking some surrogates on this site of self-pity and despair. And we have good news for all who want ‘to destroy the evil Watchtower Society’. They forget that Jehovah himself is blessing his people. Last service year we had a Peak Publishers: 7,965,954 = 2,4% increase over last year!
I appreciate that Milo. I feel the same way. It would be like every time a person posted anything about being mistreated by a member of the congregation and you and I replied that it must have been an apostate plant in the congregation. It has to be something sinister being plotted against us poor he’s. When that’s not the case at all. I am more than willing,as I have seen you are too, to point out that we are made up of imperfect people,and unfortunate as it is, sometimes bible principals and the direction from the GB is not applied. But, then wears chided for admitting that also. Oh well. Can’t win for losing I guess.
by the way….if you ever want incontrovertible evidence that your Men Leaders in NY are deceiving you , simply ask! Because YOU are being lied to!
Blessings In Christ!
Bill
I don’t tell my story,it gets old.I am out of the victim stage,people on this site will get to that point eventually.Look ahead and laugh at the past or else ex-JWdom will own you forever.
Ask whom? Anything I’ve ever asked an apostate about has only ever been answered with half truths at best. If you’re suggesting I ask the GB or an elder, then according to you I would only be lied to. That’s why I don’t consider only one side of any story, and I don’t base my decisions on the word of any man or group of men. If I’m told something by anyone that I have even the slightest feeling may be false, I always compare what is being said with what the bible says. After all doesn’t the bible say that “God cannot lie”?
Who cares what the Bible says? That book glorifies genocide, imposes the death penalty for Sabbath breaking and demands that rapists marry their victims. That book is useless as a moral guide.
Although I detest the JW organisation and feel a moral duty to expose its evils and help bring about either its utter transformation or destruction, I too have memories of some very pleasant congregation members from my childhood. It is tragic that this global publishing and property corporation , via its mastery of the dark arts of cult mind control, had taken over their minds and lives.
Please, you JW defenders, give us some clear reasons why you look forward to the day your fantasy Jehovah monster murders the greater part of the world’s population for our failure to think and act like you, for our failure to follow every diktat of a bunch of self righteous old men in New York state.
Btw, that is supposed to read “us poor jw’s”, not “us poor he’s”. Sorry I didn’t see that my autocorrect changed it. I can spell I swear!!!
Simply, Congratulations and Thank You!
Babs, I strongly suspect “Jehad Corns” is a joke.
@Rowland
Well for one thing there wont be any rapists or child molesters around. I think we can agree that will be refreshing.
I noticed that you also mention mind control a lot. Are you saying that since I’m one of Jehovah’s Witnesses that I’m being manipulated and don’t have any real say in the matter?
Of course. According to your bosses the only route to salvation is via the Faithful and Discreet Slave.
Your last post reveals the obscene mindset required to be a believing JW. You really do look forward to the day your Jehovah fantasy monster murders the greater part of the world’s population for their failure to obey, to the letter, a bunch of self appointed, controlling old farts in New York State.
I have asked countless JWs for evidence that backs up the JW Gov. Bod’s claim to being the Faithful and Discreet Slave, as referred to by Jesus in Matt. 24. None has provided any evidence. The reason is simple. There is no evidence. Without evidence the entire authority of the JW bosses collapses.
Your obscene mindset, Pot calling Kettle, has been created by a bunch of frauds. I sincerely hope that, like Cedars and thousands of others, you will one day escape their malign control.
I sometimes wonder whether I have been taken in. JW defenders are difficult, if not impossible to distinguish from JW sendups. Either way anyone trying to defend a malign cult whose entire achievements are negative, can only assist in the campaign to discredit the Watchtower organisation. An outfit, that in its 135 year history can only list the following to its credit (or is that debit?) should surely pack up and disappear. If I have missed any achievements in the following list, please advise:
1. A string of duff prophecies about the date for Armageddon.
2. Provision of a protected area for pedophiles.
3. Thousands of unnecessary deaths through its murderous blood policy.
4. Re. the above; transparent hypocrisy. JWdom allows receipt of blood fractions but not the donation of blood, the only source of such fractions.
5. Split families through shunning.
6. Stunted lives through frowning on education once the ability to read WT lit. has been acquired.
7. Making a ridiculous and unevidenced claim about being God’s sole earthly rep.
8. Mastery of the techniques of cult mind control.
9. Affiliation to the UN, a body condemned in its literature as the Beast of Babylon.
Anyone purporting to defend an outfit with such an appalling record has an impossible task. They can only be the victims of cult mind control.
It’s getting late,I thank Cedars for his site to get concerns in the open.I know from experience that there’s no point of arguing with those that still believe “the JW stuff”.Three generations of my family have been drilled with there teachings for years,I just except that nothing will change.I was a lonely 32 year old virgin living alone without friends drinking myself into oblivion because Ihad depression.Long story short I said to my self enough is enough and wrote my disassociation letter.I wanted to go on a date to a restaurant without a witness approaching me and getting into my buissness.Remember all the elders have to do is apply the iron hammer of Jehovah and your done.I did myself in to take the pleasure away from the elders.They love to disfellowship,but how often do they apply love with understanding.I was lonely and just wanted to find a wife without interference of backwards Watchtower policy.Words are legal,thats why we vent here.
Most of my family and there friends don’t subscribe to all the extreme stuff from the governing body.They would like to have a relationship with me but like always comes the threat from the elders.They could be disfellowshiped themselves for being seen with me.Most witnesses cut corners and get comfortable with an alacart version of Jehovah’s witnesses.That’s fine until difficulty comes.It can be scary to see a couple overweight elders get red in there face telling you your hair is to long or something small.That is an indicator that its more about control and loyalty then the bible truthes I grew up with in”My Book Of Bible Story’s”.
Is there anything from the Gov. Bod that is not extremely cruel and/or extremely ridiculous? the only sane way to deal with them is to ignore them and leave their grubby little cult. As to the Bible, recognise that it is a man made collection of writings of purely historical interest. As a guide to life it is appalling.
Tried to leave a comment last night, but for some reason it did not post. Just wanted to wish you the best and thanks for your website.
I Know that the Governing Body probably monitors this site.They know the old saying “know thy enemy”.You look at these sites as a tactic of ” spiritual warfare” and I feel your slithering presence now.If the big GB is here surfing enjoy your reward in full now while you can.You know your times running out:-)
To Sunset, and as to your comment :
“What a pity! Cedars lost the real truth, his family, loving brothers and sisters and Jehovah’s approval. The only thing he won is the approval of the few ones who have not endured and “have shrink back to destruction” (Hebrews 10:39)and who are seeking some surrogates on this site of self-pity and despair. And we have good news for all who want ‘to destroy the evil Watchtower Society’. They forget that Jehovah himself is blessing his people. Last service year we had a Peak Publishers: 7,965,954 = 2,4% increase over last year!”
My response,
1 John 4
18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has punishment; and the one fearing has not been perfected in love.
19 We love Him because He first loved us.
20 If anyone says, I love God, and hates his brother, he is a liar. For the one not loving his brother whom he has seen, how is he able to love God whom he has not seen? [LITV]
The Watchtower Society encourages an unhealthy hatred for the world which they use this scripture to support this hatred.
1 John 2
15 Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him, [LITV]
Unfortunately this “hate for the world” is also hating the people in it and not just it’s practices and way, and especially those that they have judged and determined to be “apostates” and “sinners”.
They also persecute them, through a process that is still legal for them to do so and that is the process of “shunning”.
Perhaps if it was legal as was in the times of the ancient Israelite days, they might even engage in the process of “stoning” those that are determined to be “mentally diseased” apostates or some other death dealing punishment.
Reminds me of the movie “The Life of Brian” where even the women got dressed up as men so that they could be part of the stoning.
Anyway they might go from door to door preaching the message that Jehovah’s Witnesses are taught to preach as the “Good News”, but do they really have genuine love for the people that they preach to?
Or is it simply out of obligation, and to fill out their field service report at the end of the month so that they can show that they have reached the required acceptable hours or show they they had done something so that they could still be considered as active Jehovah’s Witness?
Thanks for sharing your story John. One thing I can’t understand though, is why write a letter of disassociation? Seems to me this is giving legitimacy to JW rules. People should be able to stop identifying with a religion and not have to ‘disassociate’. The concept is silly!
That’s a great question Meg. It may be that we don’t end up sending a letter at all. For the moment we are taking things one step at a time and waiting for the storm to hit. If elders start phoning, or turning up at our house, that will be the time to send in a letter. And we would only be doing it for their benefit (maybe to write a few things in the letter to give them reason to think) and limit undue stress by getting them off our backs. Until then we are biding our time and seeing how things pan out. It may be that we never need to send a letter, because our actions alone should make our stance pretty clear.
Cedars,
My situation inside the JWs is very similar to yours. My wife and I moved to a foreign language congregation with high hopes, and 3 years later we found ourselves completely unplugged from ‘Witness think.’ It started for me first, as I started to spend much much more time simply reading the bible without the proof texting ‘aid’ of the WT publications. So many questions arose, and I ended up turning to a good friend of mine who is inactive according to JW requirements. I never knew exactly why he left, but as we discussed things he very kindly helped me to wake up. For me personally, it started with Matthew 24 and their ridiculous interpretation of Jesus’ parable of the “faithful and discreet slave.” Once that small, but significant, piece was dismantled, the entire house of cards came crashing down. Over the years there were many things that didn’t sit right with me, but I always had close Witness friends who felt the same way and we could vent to each other and get on about it. But things are so bad now that I don’t think any type of healthy reform is going to be possible. There’s too much at stake legally and otherwise for Watchtower. Congregations have become cold and sterile environments where battle lines are being drawn between those who wish to serve God and Christ and follow the bible, and those who follow the 8 men in New York with unflinching loyalty and don’t question them or the policy enforcers whom they appoint.
I applaud your bravery and the stand you’re taking. I know it comes at a high cost to you and your family, but necessity dictates it in your case and in so many similar cases. Others may be able to stay in and get by, but many simply must do what you are doing. Each one has to make that decision for themselves, but once you’re awake you can never go back.
Thanks for all your hard work and the manner in which you present information on your blog.
Best Wishes,
Alan
Hey, Cedar, I didn’t know you are from Croatia?
I too live in Croatia.
Svako dobro želim!
Lijep pozdrav!
TITO
I dont follow men in new york. And i have never feared Armageddon but have anticipated it. Why so i can watch people die? That would be inhumane. No i have always felt even if i dont make ot through myself, which is possible thays jesus decision, at least jehovahs name will finally be vindicated and he will be proved holy and righteous. By the way iys mot a witnrss teaching its a biblical one.
The Bible,certainly, is full of Judgement Day and Hellfire for the wicked stuff. According to Jesus and St. Paul the end was due withing the lifetime of the disciples. JWs, however, declare that the only way to survive into the Kingdom, which they have decided is a Paradise Earth, is to obey every diktat of the Faithful and Discreet Slave, which they have decided, with zero evidence is the Gov. Bod. of the Watchtower. Since Russell the JWs and their Bible student predecessors, have seen fit to bin the Biblical references to Hellfire and to cook up all sorts of cray stuff about the JWs being Jesus’ selected church as of 1919. Oh, no, I forgot; they like to imagine that their church is not a church, and that though merely an offshoot of Adventism, JWs are not part of Christendom. You cannot escape the fact that JWdom is nothing more than a global property and publishing corporation which terrorises its slave labour mag. distribution force with threats of Armageddon annihilation if it does not strive to produce ever bigger sales figures.
@a searcher. Jesus said at luke 14:26 that if a person does not hate his family he cannot be his disciple. Does this promote hatred?
Sunset,
I have happily been a non JW for over 30 years. Ours is a 3rd generation JW family. In the last 30 years I have watched as the only ones that have struggled, have been my JW relatives, who complain constantly about how hard things are and how wicked the world is and how they cannot wait for it to be destroyed. Sadly thats all they have done is complain and wait. They have not educated themselves or ever had decent work. They are now about to retire and are complaining because they have no money and look forward to more poverty. Their children also complain, and of course they are locked into the same fear based mindset. I am so glad I was able to educate myself, and get decent work. It is so important that the generation coming up are not sucked into the similar mindset of 1974. I remember the magazine “is it later than you think”? My mother used to say that my younger brother would never go to school. He is now 54, jobless, ill and worried. Our sister died last year at aged 61, jobless and miserable . Her husband died the year before at 62, depressed and miserable. All three were/are JW’s. The only one in my family who is happy content and educated is me. My life just gets better and better. I have fabulous, trustworthy friends and my immediate family are loving, generous and kind. My mother who is still alive, at nearly 90, (who did not speak to me for about 20 years), was complaining the other day that one of her grandchildren who is no longer a witness does not call her and presumably does not love her. I just replied, Mom, you have not called me once in the last 12 months, do I presume from that that you do not love me? (I make the contact with her and encourage my children to contact her, not vice versa). She just looked shocked and embarrassed by my comment. Its too late for her to admit that she has wasted her life and her behaviour has had a negative effect on her JW children. I will probably not go to her funeral, as I would not want to be part of a pantomime, where numerous people who really did not know my mother, will be in attendance and where any grief that I would display could be misinterpreted. I also, would not go because I would not want to be in the presence of two now very elderly elders, who allowed a child abuser to be protected and not reported to the police in 1968. I have boundaries and high standards for who I mix with and JW’s would not come anywhere near that standard. Rather than loving brothers and sisters, I see and have watched as poorly educated, inadequate people, continue to live their lives in unhappiness and complaint. I am overjoyed for Cedars that he and his family will not be part of the perpetuation of abuse, denial and ignorance.
Wow Sue, that is a powerful comment. Thank you for sharing.
I hope, Sue, that some of these JW defenders with their miserable and pathetic little remarks, have taken note of your positive comment.
Sue, thank you for sharing i for one enjoy different perspectives on what shaped the lives of those who are witness or ex-witnesses. I am also sorry for the loss of your siblings it is hard to lose loved ones. Even though you strongly disagree with my beliefs i hope you can take comfort in the fact that they are in the safest place they can be jehovahs memory. I know that you will look forward to seeing them ressurected ifvthat is still your hope. Please do not take this as an insulting comment i just wanted reply in a scincere way.
Milo,
I understand that in your own way you are trying to be sincere. However,
Its pointless making any comment to you, as you will not understand or be allowed to understand because of your beliefs. In the same way, my sister should and could have had a happy life. It was her choice not to have that, because she chose ignorance. I did not go to her funeral, for the same reasons as given above. The comfort I have is not based upon a fairy tale. What is good is that she is not struggling, surrounded by people who rather than help her, just perpetuated her choice.
The comments of Sue and Rowland makes me think of the Phaisees who prided themselves on being righteous and succesfull and looked down on the common people. The Gospels present them as proud, arrogant, self-righteous, faultfinding and demeaning.
Jesus slags off the Pharisees for their ostentatious piety and slavish following of a book of rules. As a JW I was taught to look down on the entire human family beyond the Watchtower Association and look forward to the day, before the end of the 20th century, when God murdered them all.
In order not to share the fate of the inhabitants of the Satanic world I was ordered to follow a set of rules and parrot the ever changing dogma issued by some self appointed, ostentatiously pious old geezers in New York.
If any group of people is out to ape the worst aspects of the Pharisees as reported in the Gospels, it is the Jehovah’s Witnesses. What could be a clearer demonstration of their imagined superiority than their sniffy refusal to join in the birthday and Christmas celebrations of their neighbours?
Sunset,
I thought long and hard, before sharing my story. I knew that it would aid the JW persecution complex and of course it has, in your case, that is sad for you, as you are not allowed for a moment to see my joy, happiness and contentment.
Life is good for me and my reason for sharing my story was because 30 years ago, I was scared that it would never be that way, because of the stories that were told week after week from a platform. I felt that it was important that a young man and his family, could find comfort in that, as they may be scared and there is no need to be. I wrote my story to help, not to be abusive or to be abused, not to criticise, nor to engender fear. My experience has been the opposite of what JW’s say, so I thought it was important to share that.
Excellent points, Sue. My JW experience was the worst aspect of childhood by far. It took years of study, post JW, to cleanse my mind of the poison implanted by my childhood JW experience. Hence I feel it important to warn the world of the evils of the Watchtower; that it is not simply A N Other group of polite, earnest, albeit nerdy religious enthusiasts. Its members are the tragic victims of a money grabbing mind control cult based in the USA. In common with Sue, my life has been joyous, having thrown out the negative nonsense implanted in my skull at the Kingdom Hall of my childhood.