After running JWsurvey for more than two years, the time has finally come to share my story.
Why has it taken so long? Because when I first set up this website I was still technically a Witness – constantly in fear of reprisals from my family or my local elders if my true identity was ever discovered.
Now, after much discussion and soul-searching, my wife and I have both made the decision to part ways with the organization – regardless of how our Witness family responds.
There are multiple reasons for this huge leap, the main one being that my wife is pregnant. Both of us refuse to raise our child in a religion we know to be false, or to allow any of our relatives to attempt this with the excuse that we are still Witnesses – which would be the case if we remained inactive.
Taking this stand has come at considerable cost – a cost imposed on us by Watchtower. We have yet to hand in formal letters of disassociation, but we have let our family know gradually over the last few weeks. This has resulted in a considerable backlash.
On my side of the family in particular I have been subjected to insults and character assassinations – attempts to call my motives into question and frame me as “selfish” simply for acting on my convictions, and standing up for my own beliefs.
My father (who is an elder) hasn’t been abusive, but he has reaffirmed that he will be shunning us the moment things become official. We spent a few days vacation together in picturesque Northern Croatia before I sat him down and attempted to explain my position.
After I revealed the information on the UN/NGO scandal to Dad by showing him newspaper articles from 2001, he was initially nauseous and didn’t want to hear any more. A day later he told me he refuses to hear my side of the argument, and will be shunning me once things are official. In his mind there is no contradiction that he will be spending his time trying to persuade people of other faiths to challenge their convictions, while refusing to hold his own beliefs to even the slightest scrutiny.
It has been deeply hurtful and distressing for me to witness my own father, who I deeply love, surrender his reason and common sense with so little struggle – especially with so much at stake. It is still more distressing that I am being blamed for any shunning that ensues even though these are Watchtower’s rules, not mine. After all, I am happy to have a relationship with all of my Witness relatives no matter what they believe.
The more I observe the utter refusal of certain family members to even listen to my reasons, and hold me to a decision I made when I was 11, the more obvious it is that I am escaping a manipulative cult where independent thinking is ruthlessly crushed and loved ones are considered expendable wherever loyalty to the Governing Body is concerned.
You may well ask what brought me to this stage, and how I came to doubt my beliefs in the first place? I am writing a book on this at the moment, but I will do my best to present a summary of my story in this article.
***When this article was written, I still felt the need to keep my real name secret due to concerns over my family. Since then I have decided to be open about my real name, which is Lloyd Evans, but I will continue writing under the moniker “John Cedars” since that is the name so many people know me by.***
An unconventional upbringing
I was born in Manchester, England, in 1979 and raised in Wilmslow, which used to be a quiet leafy village in the suburbs, but is now a wealthy neighborhood known for its celebrity residents – mostly footballers and their wives.
I had an upbringing in which Armageddon was very much a real event that could strike at any moment.
One evening, our family worship featured an “Armageddon drill.” My father received what turned out to be a fake phone call telling him that the Great Tribulation was upon us. My family was to hurry to join the brothers and sisters at the local kingdom hall, because we would all be heading off to Macclesfield Forest to make our escape from the authorities under Satan’s control.
I remember running upstairs and frantically stuffing various items in my rucksack, including a recently released book called Revelation – It’s Grand Climax At Hand incase I somehow needed it. In that moment I was convinced I was witnessing the end of the system of things.
It was only when I came downstairs and saw the smiles on the faces of my parents and sister that I realised the joke was on me.
I was baptized in December 1990, age 11. I remember my mother crying at my baptism. In the years that followed I did my best to make my parents proud by being an exemplary Witness youth.
My parents were not as strict as others in our congregation, so they encouraged me to go to college after high school. I studied art for two years. Even so, it wasn’t long before I felt the pull of pioneering, in no way diminished by the constant pressure from the platform for young ones to pursue full-time service as a “career.” I started regular pioneering in September 1998 – the same month that I was announced as a ministerial servant. I had just turned 19.
The following year I experienced my first “crisis of conscience” when the Daniel book (or Pay Attention To Daniel’s Prophecy) was released at the “God’s Prophetic Word” District Convention. I remember being initially very excited. I felt I would be able to relate to it more than the Revelation Climax book, which by now seemed crazy and garish to me. I took my copy of the Daniel book home and read it quickly.
As I devoured its convoluted reflections on bible prophecy, feelings of disappointment slowly overcame me. I encountered various explanations of scripture that simply did not add up. For example, how could the Roman Empire become Anglo-America in one prophecy, but become Nazi Germany (an enemy of Anglo-America) in another? Should there not be some kind of consistency in God’s inspired word?
The more I dwelled on this and other issues, the more I suspected that the Governing Body was simply making things up as they were going along – “shoe-horning” scriptures to fit historical events.
My doubts eventually came to the attention of my Presiding Overseer after my ministry partner snitched on me. He took me aside one afternoon while on field service, listened to my issues for a while, and then said: “Listen, I just want to know one thing. Do you believe in 1914, or not?”
When I said that yes, I believed in 1914, he said, “Well that’s all that matters!” – and our conversation was over. After this bizarre exchange, I pressed ahead with my progress as a Witness, but always with niggling doubts in the far reaches of my mind.
A life-changing tragedy
Then in 2001 my world collapsed when my mother died of breast cancer. I was 21 at the time. Mum first fell ill in 1999 but received treatment, including a mastectomy, which forced her cancer into remission. But it resurfaced a year later and consumed her very quickly, despite aggressive chemotherapy. On May 9th 2001, Mum’s doctor gave her three weeks to three months to live. She passed away 12 days later while we were on our final family holiday in Cornwall.
Mum’s death forced me to push any lingering doubts as far back in my mind as I possibly could and soldier on with my “career” in the organization. After all, serving Jehovah loyally was my one and only chance of being reunited with her in the resurrection. I couldn’t let her down.
When I was 22 I began applying to attend MTS (now the “Bible School for Single Brothers”). I was finally accepted at the age of 25, and attended the 29th Class in Britain at the Assembly Hall in Dudley. I was thrilled and extremely proud, not least because by going through the course I was fulfilling one of my Mum’s dying wishes.
Mum had told me in one of our final conversations that in the resurrection she wanted to see a video of my MTS graduation. She didn’t know that the filming of graduations is prohibited by the organization, but simply by going and graduating I knew I would be meeting her expectations. I would film what I could while I was there, just in case.
Attending MTS was a mostly uplifting and enjoyable experience. What I most appreciated was the camaraderie and friendships with guys my age from all over the UK and parts of Europe. It felt as though there were little or no distinctions between students who were ministerial servants (like me) and students who were elders. We were all sharing the same experience together as those seeking to learn.
During the course there were one or two moments that made me stop and ponder, such as during one class when our instructor told us to put a line through some words in one of our volumes of Insight on the Scriptures. Apparently this change was required because of “new light” since these books were published.
The words we were asked to delete can still be plainly seen on current versions of Watchtower Library. I thought to myself at the time, “If these words are so wrong that we are being asked to delete them, shouldn’t ALL Witnesses receive similar instructions for their Insight Volumes?”
After two months the class came to an end, and I graduated along with 21 others. My Dad, sister, and some of my close friends came along to what proved to be an emotional graduation ceremony. I was interviewed and asked to relate my experiences leading up to the course, including the death of my mother and the fact that I had quit my job in order to attend.
At the end of the graduation I joined my classmates in singing an acoustic rendition of “Life Without End At Last” with my guitar. The audience erupted in applause. It felt like I had reached the pinnacle of my achievements within the organization. I was determined to put my training to good use.
A year after my MTS, I flew out to Croatia for a reunion with a number of my classmates. One student, named Miroslav,* invited us to spend some time with his congregation in Sisak, about an hour’s drive south from Zagreb.
It was in Sisak that I met my future wife, who was pioneering at the time. After a few months of getting to know each other through emails and phone calls she agreed to move to the UK so that we could pursue our relationship.
Six months after her arrival I proposed to her with a cheap silver ring (all I could afford as a poor pioneer!) on a row-boat in the middle of a windswept lake in the Lake District. She accepted, although later joked that she only said “yes” because she wanted to get off the boat!
We were married in the summer of 2007 on the Croatian coast, and honeymooned in Venice, Switzerland and Paris on our drive home to the UK. On our return, we resumed pioneering together in the same congregation.
We began married life living in a small basement flat in a rough part of Stockport. The sound of police sirens screeching through the night formed the soundtrack to most of our evenings. Looking back it was an inauspicious start to our new life together, but it was all we could afford as pioneers on part-time wages. In fact we couldn’t afford even that, because we soon started to slide into debt.
The call to elderhood, and the anti-climax
In April 2008 I was thrilled to be appointed as an elder. I felt as though I could finally put my MTS training to full use, and take a more active role in helping people. I already loved giving talks, but it was the shepherding side that I was really looking forward to. I was anxious to help people with their problems in any way I could.
But it wasn’t long before reality started to sink in, and I began to see what being an elder was really all about. I soon discovered that elder bodies are intensely political, easily manipulated by strong personalities, and that elders are most definitely not appointed by holy spirit as Watchtower so often claims.
Our congregation had a particularly thuggish Presiding Overseer (now known as a Coordinator) who seemed to delight in bullying the brothers and making their lives miserable. He would think nothing of counselling a brother who bought a new Range Rover on being too materialistic, or imposing arbitrary rules on a teenage boy not to socialize with a young sister he liked.
When I did my best to correct this bully elder’s overbearing behavior in the only way I could think of, I was chastised for going about it in the wrong manner. I was kept as an elder, but stripped of certain privileges, including my pioneer status.
My wife also had her pioneer status removed at this time, even though she had nothing to do with my elder issues. I was told that, since both of us had been failing to meet our hour requirement, I was to break the news to my wife that she too was no longer a pioneer.
And so, after eight years of selfless full-time service for the organization in two different countries, my wife was unceremoniously sacked as a pioneer through her husband without so much as a “thank you.”
My lowest point
But these troubles were soon to pale into insignificance when my wife made a heartbreaking discovery. She learned that, though I hadn’t cheated on her, I had been fraternizing with girls on the internet in ways that I shouldn’t have done as a married man. I had a big issue with cyber sex and pornography, which I had developed as a teenager, and which remained with me even into my marriage.
I am not proud of my actions, and to this day I grimace at what I put my wife through. She has never been anything but loyal and loving, and it saddens me that I hurt her by betraying her trust so early in our marriage.
I also feel it was hypocritical of me to accept an appointment as an elder with the aim of helping others and offering spiritual guidance when I had so many issues of my own to contend with. I was living a double life and being dishonest with people.
Even so, I can’t help but consider these actions to be very much a by-product of sexual repression in my formative years. In particular, I think of the difficulties I had in finding a marriage partner from a narrow pool of Witness girls, and the unscriptural Watchtower injunctions designed to induce guilt over masturbation.
Of course, I accept responsibility for my actions and I do not blame Watchtower for everything. After all, plenty of Witnesses seem to develop into well-balanced adults without these problems.
But my wife and I both now realise that sexual repression in my upbringing was a major factor. It forced me into finding ways of satisfying my natural sexual urges as a virgin without intercourse so as to remain “morally clean,” and this led to an unhealthy dependency on the internet and pornography.
Once my wife discovered my problem we had a number of emotional exchanges. Decisions needed to be made. My first instinct was to sweep things under the rug and work things out between us, but in the end I decided to stand down as an elder and move back to the congregation I had grown up in to receive discipline.
Apart from anything else I knew I wouldn’t get a fair trial from the bully elder, who would doubtless want to make sure I suffered further for daring to question him. This matter involved my wife and I, and not him – so I chose to receive my punishment from elders I felt I could rely on to be impartial.
I wrote an exhaustive confession in a letter and posted it through the letter box of my new Coordinator. Before long I was summoned to a Judicial Committee and made to relive everything I had done in excruciating detail, despite my signed confession which had already explained everything.
At one point I remember being reduced to tears. By the end of it all, it was decided that I should be reproved and not disfellowshipped. However, my reproof was to be publicly announced both in my new and former congregations to make it clear that I had done wrong during my time as an elder.
A fresh start
Around this time my wife and I agreed that we needed a fresh start, so we decided to move to live with her parents in Croatia. Our years spent pioneering had left us with very little money and a mountain of debt, but we at least had an opportunity to build an apartment for ourselves without worrying about rent or mortgage payments.
And so we packed up our belongings and made the move across Europe to Croatia in the summer of 2009. At the time I recall being determined to restore my spirituality, and maybe even work my way back to serving as an elder again eventually.
For the first few months in my new congregation I continued under the restrictions from my reproof in the UK, meaning that I couldn’t answer up at meetings or participate in any talks on the Theocratic Ministry School.
I was reduced to being a mere observer at meetings that I could scarcely understand due to the language barrier. I knew a few words of Croatian, but certainly not enough to follow closely what was being said.
Before long, something unexpected happened. My identity as a Witness disintegrated as I could feel myself being unplugged from the indoctrination. For the first time I began to ask myself, “What do I truly believe?”
I recalled my doubts about the Daniel book from when I was 20. I found I was able to add a number of other issues and teachings that I could no longer agree with. Eventually I sat down and wrote a list of nine “grievances.” When I looked at the list, it was obvious to me that I was now only a Witness in name only. There were just too many things wrong with the organization for it to be the “truth.”
Eventually my restrictions were lifted and I began giving Bible readings in Croatian on the school meetings. Elders would give me encouragement, leaving me with the impression that I would be re-appointed before too long if I just put forth a little effort. But by this time it was too late. I was already waking up.
Then one day in May 2011, after pouring out my feelings to my wife, I decided to declare myself inactive. I felt I needed to let my Dad know of my decision by telephone. I recall him being heartbroken. I broke down in tears once I had finished talking to him. No son relishes the idea of being viewed as a failure by his father.
I wrote a letter to my elders briefly explaining my reasons for being inactive. In hindsight, I realise that my elders could have very easily taken this as a letter of disassociation and severed me from the organization there and then, but for some reason they didn’t want to do this. At least, not to begin with.
Stalling the inquisition
Two elders visited and we had a long and tearful discussion. I explained that I would still be attending memorials each year (to keep my family happy, in my mind) but that I could no longer go preaching when I had so many doubts. They chose to respect this, so I assumed that would be the end of it.
Around this time a new elder joined our congregation from Zagreb bethel, and he soon learned of my inactivity. He decided he didn’t like the way things had been handled, and convinced himself that there must be more to my decision than I was letting on.
This elder pulled my wife to one side at the end of one meeting and interrogated her in the back room, asking questions about my behavior and quizzing her as to our business affairs. My wife and I run a small business, and he and others had come up with a theory that I was staying on as a Witness just so I could exploit Witnesses when handing out work.
All of this happened at roughly the time I finished reading Crisis of Conscience and learned of the 1980 witch hunt against the likes of Raymond Franz and Nestor Kuilan. It felt very much like my elders had me in their sights in the same way, and were determined to disfellowship me on any pretext – real or imagined. All they needed now was a chance to grill me for information having failed to get anything from my wife.
I received a phone call from an elder asking to arrange a visit, but I told him in no uncertain terms that they had broken the rules by interrogating my wife without me being present, and I would therefore not be cooperating with any attempts to offer me “help” until I received a full apology.
Predictably the apology never came, and I was finally left alone. If there was one thing I knew I could rely on, it was the pride of elders and their tendency to deny doing anything wrong. This uneasy stand-off gave me the freedom I needed to explore my new reality without being immediately separated from my family.
The birth of JWsurvey
As things settled and I grew accustomed to my new life as a “fader” I continued to trawl the internet for information. JWfacts.com in particular was a real eye-opener. It was on Paul Grundy’s site that I learned of the UN/NGO scandal, Rutherford’s letter to Hitler, and the Mexico/Malawi scandal. Barbara Anderson’s website also informed me on the complexities of the child abuse issue, and how Watchtower is causing real harm in that regard. Everything began to fall into place.
The more I learned, the more I wanted to share. I was also curious as to how many others like me were out there. I began thinking of ways to poll such ones for their opinions so that people could see at a glance what the consensus was among thinking Witnesses.
Then one day I proposed setting up a survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I began experimenting with ways of making this a reality. I thought it would cost a lot of money to set up, but an Ex-JW web developer and writer called John Hoyle came to my rescue completely out of the blue. He contacted me and essentially said, “If you want I can build you a website that can host your survey, and you won’t need to pay me anything for it.”
At first I thought it was impossible for a complete stranger to be so kind and make such an offer with no thought of payment, but I figured I had nothing to lose in accepting. Before long, JWsurvey.org was launched. The rest, as they say, is history.
A reason to take a stand
Fast forward two years or so, and yesterday I found myself attending a hospital appointment with my wife, who is three months into her pregnancy. This was our first opportunity to see our first baby in the womb by means of an ultrasound.
As the grainy images came up on the screen, I was overwhelmed with emotion. I could see our baby’s heart pumping in its chest. I could see its legs folded buddha-like beneath it. I could even see its fingers as its hands were raised almost covering its alien-like face.
The thought occurred to me, “I will love this person unconditionally its whole life, no matter what it thinks, says or does. I will never allow myself to be separated from it, no matter what happens.”
Unlike me, this child will be taught only proven facts – not religious dogma designed to reinforce the unquestioned control of an elite group of deluded theocrats who insulate themselves from even the mildest criticism.
There will be no “Armageddon drills.” There will be no fear, guilt, or paranoia. There will be only love and acceptance. My child will have all the opportunities I never had as a youngster – including the chance to build a life for itself doing and believing whatever it chooses, with my support.
Yes, my Witness family is bitterly disappointed in me. Yes, they view me as a traitor. But there is nothing I can do about that other than to build my own family, free of such rifts and divisions. Though this is proving traumatic for me, I cannot live the rest of my life bending over backwards to conform to the expectations of my indoctrinated forebears.
They may prefer for me to remain inactive, trapped in some sadistic vow of silence so that the mother organization can continue to wreak havoc undisturbed. But I refuse to tacitly bend my knee to Watchtower for a moment longer. A stand must be taken. A line must be drawn.
After all these articles it is high time for me to talk with my feet – especially with my child’s future at stake. Yes, fading is a great option if you can stay quiet and pull it off, and I support those who handle matters in that way. But if you are an activist like myself with something to say about Watchtower and the means to say it, you will find it increasingly difficult to keep it going for too long before something has to give.
The journey continues
I know many of you reading my story will be disappointed at my personal failings, but please understand that I am only human and never set myself up as a role model or spiritual guru for anyone. I am interested only in exposing the scandals and falsehoods of an organization that claims to represent God as honestly and journalistically as possible.
I have not the faintest interest in drawing off followers, preaching alternative doctrines or telling people how to live their lives. I am interested only in revealing the truth about Watchtower, and I feel my experiences within the organization, both good and bad, put me in a great position to do this.
Nothing I write should be considered as beyond question – in fact I am happy to receive criticisms and make changes to articles if needed. I am committed to using my energies to join with other more seasoned campaigners in informing the world about what I view as a damaging cult, which I see tearing my own family apart and threatening countless others.
To all those who have sent messages of support and solidarity over the past few days via Facebook and email, I give my heartfelt gratitude. It is not easy to make this stand. I have shed more than a few tears, but I know what I am doing is right.
By going through this pain now I am sparing future generations from the same problems. I want to give my child a life free from fear and indoctrination, with the opportunity to explore this amazing thing called life without the shackles of ignorance and servitude. I can think of no finer legacy to pass on.
*Miroslav has recently been disfellowshipped for apostasy. On his facebook profile, he identifies himself as a follower of the Bible Students.
Translations: Romanian | …
Related video…
I saw the video. The house you’re making a European style. Does this mean you’re going to live in Croatia. I live in Tuzla near the Croatian. The proposal to make the mingling of former JW people we know. Sometime in the spring and to share experiences.
Hi Dino! I would be happy to go along to a Croatian meet-up if someone wants to arrange it! Stay in touch.
Cedars, I am from Croatia too!
I am very glad to hear you live in Croatia too!
See my comment above!
Svako dobro!
TITO
Thanks Tito, I look forward to meeting up with all my Croatian comrades at some point! ;)
Rowland, why so agressive and disrespectful?
I see you don’t like old men.
In Jehovah’s eyes is a faithful Christian with grey or white hair beautiful and very precious. “Gray hair is a crown of beauty” Proverbs 16:31
When I read the comments of you and others on this site I can not imagine you are joyous and happy folks. I hear nothing positive, only frustration, bitterness, wounded pride and self-pity.
I am 66 myself. I respect wisdom whencesoever its source. I have no respect, however, for a bunch of old men who believe, and demand that others believe, that I, and the greater part of the world’s population, deserve to be murdered by their fantasy Jehovah at some imminent Armageddon. Yes, the mastery of the dark arts of cult mind control demands a certain nous, but it is such a cruel and destructive use of human ingenuity. Having experienced a childhood under the malign influence of the Watchtower, I feel I have a duty to warn the world and to reduce the chances of other lives being wrecked and diminished by your grubby little outfit.
Sunset,
I can understand why you feel like we are not positive people.
Suppose at the age of 52 you learn that you are adopted. That you’ve been deceived for your whole life. You’re stripped of all your identity. In addition to having your support ripped from under you, there is grieving for the loss of your identity. A lot of us have gone through/or are in different stages of grief. There is a feeling of being betrayed and deceived. Some may be bitter, some angry, but that is part of a long process of acceptance of reality.
We have lost our identity as part of a group, but are learning how to be identified as an individual. We are learning to be personally accountable instead of abdicating that responsibility to the organization.
We are trying to figure out how to pick up the pieces of our lives and put ourselves back together again.
When someone else has been doing your thinking for you, you now have to decide who you are and what do you believe. We have to find our own truth which is a long, difficult, painful process.
Some choose to believe there is a creator. Some choose to believe there is no god. The point being that we are all now truly free moral agents and no one chooses for us.
Personally, I have never been happier and or felt so free as I do right now.
I am free to have a real relationship with my Heavenly Father and his son Jesus. Not through the governing body. But directly to Jehovah through Jesus. I am following Jesus example of showing love for Jehovah by treating people the way that I would like them to treat me. That is a much simpler way to live, with no indiscriminate laws, no mandatory attendance or preaching to prove you love Jehovah, no imperfect human judging another, only love of and God and love of fellow man. The God I love is one who is forgiving and just. One who cherishes me as an individual.
Simply,
Congratulations, and Thank You for being here. This has helped me a lot.
What is a JW doing referring to respect? You guys dismiss the entire world outside your misery making cult, as the work of Satan and due for imminent annihilation. That is not respectful. It is hideous and obscene.
Sunset,
Your comment reminded me of how JW’s only are allowed to see what they want to see, to confirm what they are told. It would be really lovely if you were able to see and could accept that when people say they are happy, its because they have created good and rewarding lives, have raised healthy caring children and would never dream of suggesting that others have “only frustration, bitterness, wounded pride and self-pity”. Thats just plain bizarre thinking don’t you think?
After reading your last comments, Rowland, I feel I hit the nail on the head!
Have you noticed, Sunset, how many replies are from people who are, or were, in Cedar’s position? They continue, or continued, to attend the KH and make up these numbers your bosses love to flash around. Just how many of the published numbers of JWs simply attend for family reasons, and have long concluded that your cult is based on a lie? What nail have you hit on the head? You remind me of my late mother. She was a JW until she died. Faced with the facts about the awful cult for which she bought and distributed those awful mags for no wages, she would react, as Cedars’ parents reacted, and go into a state of denial. The truth about her obscene JW ‘TRUTH’ she did not want to know. She loved the self righteous delusion that God would soon murder all who did not think and behave like she did. For the moment, Sunset, you are determined to hide from the truth about your JW ‘TRUTH’. I hope, one day you are able to awaken. You will feel much better.
Best wishes.
To Milo,
As to your comment.
And my response,
Luke 14
25 ¶ And great crowds came together to Him. And turning, He said to them,
26 If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters, and besides, even his own life, he cannot be My disciple.
27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me, he cannot be My disciple. [LITV]
Yes trust, Jehovah’s Witnesses to use this scripture in support of displaying a lack of love for their non-witness family members and deliberately creating division in the family unit thereof.
This dare I say is a deliberate distortion of scripture that has been deliberately translated to reflect how one must feel about those not in their faith, of which the early church in the medieval error used to support their inquisitions I believe.
It appears to me that Jehovah’s Witnesses seem to be copying what is the behavior of the early church and it’s unyielding ways and contempt for those who were not of their faith, such as the contempt for other religions like those of the Islamic faith, protestants and so on.
Here is what I believe Jesus really said or meant, as I do not know exactly what he said except for information outside Bible record.
He was conveying that a person had to be willing to lose or risk all, including their own family members for the sake of the kingdom and following in the path and the way of Jesus Christ who is the foremost member of that kingdom as he was designated king of which he already was the ruler (Daniel 12:1); initially in heaven, but it needed to be established by his life course here on earth.
Anyway to reiterate ,Jesus stated the extent that they needed to go to follow him, when he stated according to scripture this: “And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me, he cannot be My disciple.” [LITV]
So Jesus was not advocating hate of ones friends or family members, but showing how they would have to be willing to risk or lose these relationships to follow him and his teachings.
In fact Jesus once or a few times stated that one must “love” even their enemy, and so presumably this would even include those who are opposed to them.
43 ¶ You have heard that it was said, “You shall love your neighbor” and hate your enemy; Lev. 19:18
44 but I say to you, Love your enemies; bless those cursing you, do well to those hating you; and pray for those abusing and persecuting you,
45 so that you may become sons of your Father in Heaven. Because He causes the sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and unjust. [LITV]
Notice how Jesus even stated to “pray for those abusing and persecuting you”?
Is this not in direct contrast with what you are espousing?
Or what in general Jehovah’s Witnesses are now being taught?
@Snarky – no way… lies, deceptions, from God’s mouthpiece on earth? Do tell..
@a searcher your answer is correct. You put words in my moth thinking i was applying that towatds disfellowshipping. In fact that is a scriptual answer and in line with wtbts teaching. Jesus was simply saying love jehovah more than your family more tgan the thing in life you hold most dear. So when we say hate the world it is not a detestable view of the world and the people but has the same context of hate jesus was implying, love them less than you do jehovah.
Cedars, you will always be Cedars to me. :)
Okay, you say that they Watchtower Society has applied this scripture in that way as I had explained, but why is it that they are not applying it that way now according to recent information both from the platform at conventions and in literature?
And by the way it might be worth considering what the Watchtower Society had once printed in their own literature in the Awake magazine in 2009 and I will quote it here.
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family” Awake July 2009.
This being the Awake magazine was obviously more for the public who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses, but do you not think that in view of the pendulum changes that are taking place in organizational teachings and understanding, that this should also apply to themselves as a religious organization, or does it only apply to those outside of the organization?
What the organization is now asking you to do, is choose between what the “faithful slave” tells you and what you personally believe to be wrong or right as you yourself have come to understand it.
If your thinking and actions differs from that of the organization and it’s “faithful slave”, then you do have a choice to make as the organization will not tolerate any dissent, causing the dissenter to choose between their own belief system and their own family who maybe are active Jehovah’s Witnesses.
This is because just as I was disfellowshiped a few years ago because of not accepting that the “faithful slave” was appointed over all of Christ’s belongings back in 1919, the same will go for anyone else who find themselves in similar circumstances as the Internet forums are now testifying about, in a large way, including the experience of Cedars here on this site.
Then please consider this statement made in 2009 by your very own organization in the (Awake July 2009).
“No one should be forced to worship in a way that he finds unacceptable or be made to choose between his beliefs and his family”
The application of it is obviously for non-Jehovah’s Witnesses, but do you not think that it should also be applied to the religious organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses as well.
Or is this scripture that I will quote below, just something to say to pass the time away?
1 John 4
1 ¶ Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world. [LITV]
The previous comment of mine was in response to Milo.
[exhaustive copy-and-paste of g7/09 p.29 removed – please use brief quotes and cite references in future]
I dont se in the context of that where it says not to apply this counsel towards anyone. It tells you you must make your own decision. Witness or non.
To Milo,
That is my point, that there are some issues that occur from ones study of the Bible or elsewhere that may actually cause the family to separate themselves from that person, because this is what they are actually encouraged to do by the hierarchy of the organization, particularly those they would view as “Apostates” such as many of us here on this site are viewed as and the ones the hierarchy the “Governing Body” with their enforcers, the “elders”, encourage their members not to interact with whether in person or on the Internet or any other forms of communication.
Of course disfellowshiping being held over one’s head is a big disincentive to associating with these ones.
This issue could even cause separation with a marriage, even divorce even though no sin such as adultery has occurred
Also to continue on, the organization does not allow their members to express their free-will without consequences.
I am talking here about free-will within the parameters of what Jesus actually taught as the truth and how his followers should conduct themselves.
Just to reiterate further, there have been many that have actually studied the Bible on it’s own without the benefit of the publications of the Watchtower Society and have somewhat come up with a different truth to what is presented by the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
These ones when they talk about their research and findings are then more or less persecuted by the Elders and if they do not give up their quest for truth are in fact disfellowshiped from the congregation and their after “shunned”.
There are indeed many examples of this all over the domains of the Internet to testify to this.
Milo and other JW apologists cannot bear to face the fact that they are no more than unpaid mag. distributors for a corrupt global publishing and property corporation. That is why they make these pathetic statements averring that independent Bible study invariably leads to the same ever changing and flip flopping conclusions as invented by the Gov. Bod.
No doubt Milo and co. can give Bible chapter and verse to show that Jehovah would only issue a ban on blood transfusions, with Armageddon annihilation as a penalty for transgression in 1945. There must also be somewhere in the Bible, an announcement that before the end of the 20th century Jehovah would permit the receipt, but not the donation of blood fractions. Please remind me of the Bible verse which declares that the Faithful and Discreet Slave would issue a series of duff prophecies. I too want to believe that independent Bible study demonstrates the absolute and unchanging (albeit ever changing) TRUTHS as issued by the WT Gov. Bod.
Great story. You provide absolute proof elders are not appointed by Holy Spirit. And, the JW organisation is a publishing corporation that has established an insular community of network marketing participants.
These participants are under the misguided belief they are doing god’s will rather than pursuing the goals of the corporation.
The whole JW scam is sick it’s all about the money and power !!!! Remember what the governing body member said at latest assembly hall . ” brothers we love this arrangement .. We love this IDEA.” What a bunch of crap !!!
We have all been scammed just like Raymond franz was !!! Hopefully we got out of it while we are still young ,so we are not jobless , cause of no schooling by the time we figure out we have been scammed… stinking frauds we need to do a class action suit agianst them !!!!! Pap always said every dog will get it’s day
As a 57 yr. old grouch from Chicago, ex JW lone activist since I was 16, I enjoyed reading this and getting to know you and some of the commenters for the last few hours on a quiet Sunday morning. I feel the same in wishing you the best in your journey as an ex JW and a father, two of the most rewarding things you will have in your life. I agree about the stupid letter….it’s all part of their ridiculous mind game. Don’t send it or return their calls. Block their number, don’t answer the door…just be done with it. And if I may be just a little rude back, to all of the JWs that just Had to make their smug parroted talking points “with a smile” comments on this thread, the next time you stub your toe…think of me smiling. BTW, JWs -how come you guys never come by my house anymore? I have so much more to talk to you about. What?…you’re not interested? Ha!
Bottom line JW’S
If Jesus appointed the organization (in 1919) as the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses now teaches, (new light) then Jesus is a false prophet. In 1919 talks were being given that Millions now (then) living will never die. In 1920 the book (Millions now living will never die) came out.(J. F. Rutherford) In the book it teaches that in 1925 the end is coming and all the old faithful prophets (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, ect. will be resurrected and take up ruling the earth from earthly Jerusalem. See pages 88-90 and 97 of the MNLWND book. Also from 1919-1925 this teaching was strongly promoted in the other Watchtower publications of the time. Obviously the 1925 prophesy did not happen. (I personally do not believe Jesus would be party to any false prophesy, DO YOU?) Either Jesus appointed them in 1919 (like the Governing Body now says) and Jesus is a party to false prophesy or he did not appoint them and is not a false prophet. ONE OR THE OTHER. You can get copies of this and other books from the time, from Amazon.com. This is a copy of the Watchtower’s own publication (not apostate literature). See also: The Finished Mystery (1917-1918). WAKE UP, THINK, REASON Jesus could not be party to any false prophesy and be true to himself and his heavenly Father.
Cedars
My heartfelt thanks to you and your wife for sharing your very powerful and moving story. Your blog is a real lifeline to many exJWs who struggle to come to terms with shunning – I hope I speak for the majority of us when I say that our thoughts are with you and I hope we can be of support to you during this challenging time.
Please keep up the good work :-)
All good wishes from another fellow Mancunian (our paths must have crossed over the years – my grandmother was a regular pioneer in Hazel Grove congregation for c.25 years and I often used to attend her circuit assemblies)
Rowland, your late mother was a marvelous woman. I admire her for her courage, tenacity and perseverance. She did not believe the lies of her son. She was much wiser than he. She died as a loyal servant of the great God Jehovah.
Sunset – did you ever meet my mother? If not you are doing a very bibliolatrous thing. Making assertions about something of which you have not the remotest evidence.
Sunset has been blocked from JWsurvey for deliberately inflammatory remarks about another poster’s late mother.
Just a small thought for those that feel it is moral to change the religious atmosphere.: Religion and the Social Order, Bainbridge presented the following mandate:
“It is time to move beyond mere observationof scientistic cults and use the knowledge we have gained of recruitment strategies, cultural innovation, and social needs to create better religions thanthe world currently possesses. At the very least, unobtrusive observation must be supplemented by active experimentation. Religions are human creations. Our society quite consciouslytries to improve every other kind of social institution,why not religion? Members of The Process, founded mainly by students from an architecture school, referred to the creation of their cult as religious engineering, the conscious, systematic, skilled creation of a new religion. I propose thatwe become religious engineers.”
To understand what sort of faith is being sculpted by the technocratic “religious engineers,” one need only look to Scientology and the Process Church. Both of these scientistic cults, awash in Darwinism and its corresponding humanist-Masonic religion of apotheosized Man, are microcosms for an emergent one-world religion.
Amazing story. Congratulations with your new baby.
I have sometimes wondered why people stay as a JW, when they can see the damage it does to themselves and their family.
I was reading yesterday and this made sense, that it can be because of
“loneliness, power, an escape from reality – Sometimes people are just curious and quickly end up under the control of others, like victims of hypnosis. Most of these victims can be taught to find what they are looking for through other, more constructive outlets. They can learn how to find real friends and how to keep them, how to channel their energies in new directions, and how to face reality”.
It also said, “Guilt often keeps people stuck and also fear of the unknown and fear of people who are perceived as apostates or worldly as defined by JW’s”.
What seems to help is when people can see that the people who are not JW’s are decent, caring people, who are nothing like what JW’s have said. What also seems to make people stay is not the doctrine, as that changes all the time, but the feeling of “camaraderie and the loss of friends and family”. I know this is obvious to most people, but I want to help my nieces and having gone through the pain and come out the other side a while ago now, you forget the mindset that is present.
What I think will help is this –
Once someone realises that the pain caused by being a JW, is more than the fear of being potentially alone and abandoned, the spell is broken. What is needed then is healing techniques, as with any trauma, which can lead to recovery and a healthy life. I remember what helped me was meditation. I suggested that to my my niece (a JW) who has for years suffered with stress and auto-immune conditions. I had forgotten that of course, JW’s are not allowed techniques that will clear their mind and help them recover from stressful thought patterns. So what I do at the moment is just love em up and vitamins.
What a great ultimately uplifting post.
I wish you, your wife and child the very best life can offer.
The remarks, sunrise (or sunraise – why not use a proper name? fear of the JW bosses condemning you to Armageddon slaughter for interacting with apostates?) were inflammatory. You never met my mother and had no right to comment.
She introduced me to your foul and obscene cult, which marred my childhood with Armageddon nightmares. She failed to look after her children, so we ran away to the safety of our grans. Mum thought no worldly effort was necessary with Paradise Earth just around the corner. Your crackpot cult played up to all her crazy conceits about having special knowledge and wisdom unknown to ordinary lesser and Satanic folk.
But you are a JW. Those guys distort language. Their TRUTH is lies and your ‘kind remarks’ were an insult.
Sue,
Your experience was worded so well and flowed smoothly. Are you a writer?
I agree with you on the happiness found upon leaving JW. It is so unpleasant to listen to JW’s bemoan their existence and many typically refuse to do anything to better their lives, which is possible to do without becoming some greedy, materialistic, selfish person.
The JW victim mentality is so strong and exhausting to try and combat. I have some family that really is challenging to be around, with their pessimistic mindset, which WT slyly encourages by dwelling on negative news, instead of ever sharing positive news on medicine, science, world conditions being less dire etc.
Bottom Line
If Jesus appointed the Watchtower Organization in 1919 as his sole channel (new light) and has been using them to feed his sheep ever since, he is a false prophet.
In 1919 talks were being given that millions then living would never die. Jesus would have been aware of this teaching when making his selection. Also, in 1920 the organization’s book (Millions Now Living Will Never Die) came out. (by J.F. Rutherford) This book and other Watchtower literature of the time stressed that 1925 would see the end of this system and that all the faithful prophets of old (Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, and so on would be resurrected and they would rule the earth from earthly Jerusalem. (Obviously this did not come to pass.) It was a false prophesy. (See pages 88-90 and 97 MNLWND) I don’t believe Jesus would have anything to do with false prophesy. He could not and be true to himself and his Heavenly Father if he did.
One or the other, (not both), Jesus chose the Watchtower Organization and was involved with false prophesy or he did not and the Watchtower organization is lying. What do you think?
For proof of what was being taught at the time, you can get copy’s of Millions Now Living Will Never Die and the Finished Mystery book (1917-1918) from Amazon on the internet. These are copies of the Watchtowers own publications of the time, not apostate books.
Wake up, Think, Reason.
Gypsy Sam,
Yes, I am. Are you? One of the first things I was able to do when I stopped being a JW was to read and learn. I went to University. I cannot tell you just how important that was, because education enabled me to break through fear based messages, that were easily blow apart. I recommend reading everything and then becoming choosy, because thats what hones writing.
Congrats, Brave move!
I agree with you and your feelings as I have and am experiencing these things right now.
I have been a JW my whole life, I am considered inactive
( about 7 months now ) but still do things with certain friends in the Kingdom Hall. The elder body does not care for me and they would really like to get me out of their way, but being a JW for so long, I have been taught organizational procedures ” Watchtower law” a good share of my life, even though I never served in a position and knowing these “laws” makes it hard for them to get rid of me because by their own rules, they have no grounds to do it. I am not ready to leave officially just yet, because I think I can do more good by still associating and exposing the lies undercover for now when I am technically still in good standing. Even the thought of serving in a position along side of mostly hypocritical elders, goes against the morals I have learned from the Bible. The majority of elders I know “in the truth” have no interest in the Sheep or publishers, only themselves and their ” positions”. Our elder body has destroyed our congregation and both elders and publishers that have been abused have moved to out to other congregations. The Circuit overseers do nothing but protect the abusive elders and it continues to get worse. The entire Watchtower system is broken from the top down, and only the publishers suffer. Position and politics are what’s important, not the sheep.
I have done alot in my over 40 years as a JW, but if you pose any questions as to why the Watchtower teaches certain things, an immediate “red flag” goes up and now your a person of interest to be watched over as a potential apostate. There is no freedom of questioning once you become a baptized witness. When your studying the Bible with JW’s. you have the freedom to ask and pose any question you want to your teacher as long as the JW thinks you are progressing to become a JW. I have deep roots from infancy as a JW that go up high on the corporate ladder, and have seen these things my whole life and no longer agree with the double standards.
I am not saying these things because of anger or resentment towards JW’s in general. I feel that there are alot of truly sincere JW’s who love the Bible and Jehovah God, but are none the less blinded as alot of us were. I once was also blinded and believed everything I was told. Everything your told “ALWAYS” has the weight behind it as “Jehovah himself is saying it and if you dont do what they say, your dissapointing Jehovah. When you finally break free from that mindset and start reading the Bible w/o the Watchtower, a huge weight is finally lifted off your shoulders and you can finally see how simple the Bible really is and how uncomplicated and merciful it actually becomes. I now serve Jehovah without a heavy, burdoned guilty conscience I use to when I followed word
for word what the Watchtower forced on us. I now view non JW’s as friends and genuinely nice people of all religions as ones that have a hope that is found in the Bible for a better future, which is also against Watchtower thinking. “They” 8 men in New York, can only control you by making you think that they are your way to life and only through them and every word they say. Certain active JW’s that respond on this site are critical of why inactive and ex JW’s are voicing their heart on here. But I would have to say it is only because you have not experienced the Dark side behind the scenes form either the “bad elders” out there, nor the Hypocracy of the Watchtower they don’t want you to know. When you are told week after week at the meetings and tons of Watchtowers on how to think and what to say and do not research what you really believe in the Bible, everything “seems” good. Research the Watchtower JUST using the publications and reading just the Bible and you will see how off base this organization really is. Its beginning no doubt was sincere with Russel, but the lies, deception, power struggles especially with Rutheford and his hi jacking the society after Russel died, the true story about JW’s in concentration camps and why they were really there only touches the deception from the beginning of what your being told. Truth is only scary when you believe the lie. Lies take no effort to believe, but the truth takes work to find. Only a lazy christian is told what to believe and they do it, a true christian wants to know why he believes what he believes and it sources.
Critical JW’s of this site are only responding to us the way in which you were told to, but its not because of truthfully knowing what you believe and why. Truth defends itself, but when a person is defensive about what they think they know, its usually because they are embarrassed for believing a lie for so long. If you are so interested in knowing what the Bible says, then try reading it word for word without the use of the Watchtower. If you feel guilty at that concept, then the Watchtower has a hold on you, not Jehovah God.
Jesus NEVER quoted a Watchtower only the Bible, if your a true Witness of Jehovah, can you follow that example by only using the Bible only door to door without ever using or placing a Watchtower? if not, rethink if your promoting God or an organization or a man made magazine. The Bible never changes, but the Watchtower has always changed and continues to change its doctrinal views, but if you don’t change or agree with it, Jehovah will not be happy with you. Serve Jehovah without guilt and oppression.
I have just one tiny problem with the comments you made in your video. You twisted the witnesses’ “beliefs” with “promises.” Sorry but beliefs are one thing and promises are another. What is more I already exposed your foolish reasoning in an email about your misunderstanding of what “progressive light” really is. I explained to you how the JWs should be commended for changing their thinking rather than condemned for bringing their thoughts closer to God’s thinking. But be my guest, waste your time in vain trying to tear down an organization that cannot and will not be tore down. :-)
Hello Iron Stylus. Welcome to the site, and goodbye at the same time – because I won’t tolerate liars and those who deliberately set out to deceive others with propaganda and untruth. It seems since I’ve published my story a number of you have come out of the woodwork like some kind of apologist cavalry charge. Well that’s fine – if you all want to fall on your sword at once, I am here to help you. But don’t expect to do it without your claims and arguments being utterly exposed and debunked.
You say I twisted “beliefs” with “promises,” but it is not I who did that – but Watch Tower. If a belief, such as the belief that Armageddon will come before the generation of 1914 pass away, is etched in black and white print and sold to millions of people as “truth” – THEN it becomes a promise. It further becomes a promise if people can be disfellowshipped and torn from their families for disagreeing with it.
You say you have already exposed my “foolish reasoning” about increasing light by email, but this is what you actually said in your email…
“And as for the ‘increasing light’ I think that this is the one area that people totally fail to appreciate about Jehovah and his organization. And no Jehovah never provides false information to his people. That doesn’t make sense in the slightest. But what occurs is we as imperfect humans will do things in a certain way believing it’s the best way of doing something until we are set straight or corrected. (Proverbs 14:12) Once we are corrected, it’s up to us to change. Moreover if the faithful and discreet slave never had a change of understanding of the scriptures, that would mean that they know everything about the bible and fully understand prophecies before they occur. But that is simply not the case. God’s organization like the prophets of old have a limited understanding. Even Jesus revealed things progressively to his apostles, and the scriptures tell us why. Because they weren’t ready for some of the deeper truths. No, an organization that is willing to change its understanding in harmony with truth should be commended, not condemned! The organizations that continue to stick to manmade traditions and who won’t change when they learn the truth, now those are the ones we should condemn.”
Your entire defence of the organization over increasing light thus rests on the “aw leave them alone, they’re only human” argument so often regurgitated by apologists, and so easily dismantled.
If the Governing Body are truly only “imperfect humans,” relying on “limited understanding” then they should act accordingly and humbly offer their teachings on a take-it-or-leave-it basis. Instead, they call themselves Christ’s faithful and discreet slave, lay claim to be the ones “taking the lead” over God’s earthly organization, and insist that all their writings MUST be believed OR the worst imaginable punishment will be visited upon dissenters – namely estrangement from loved ones. These are not the actions of humble men who are mindful of their imperfections or “limited understanding.” These are the actions of cruel religious tyrants who insist on unquestioned loyalty regardless of whether their promises come true or not.
So by all means continue to stand up for these men and defend their wicked actions – just do it somewhere else other than JWsurvey, where people are waking up from your sickly, sadistic delusions. We don’t need 8 men to tell us how to live our lives, or fill our minds with false promises and failed expectations. And we don’t need you to stick up for them either.
I’m familiar enough with the bible that I don’t need other publications to back up my thoughts. I can even expose Cedar’s twisted line of reasoning using only the bible and have actually done it already. :-)
I do understand why some can be stumbled at first by things they may read about the Watchtower Society. But that stumbling is due primarily to pride. We think we know the facts and understand something, when in reality we don’t know much. Take the references that Cedar made in his article of the UN/NGO scandal and Rutherford’s letter among other things he mentioned. All of those things will ONLY stumble someone who WANTS to be stumbled. I’ve personally examined them all with a fine tooth comb and I could find nothing substantial to take down the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society with.
But like Cedar I have had some bones to pick with elders and or Ministerial Servants who have showed the true nature of their imperfections. But Cedar has to appreciate that while he was being rubbed the wrong way by the elder he had issues with, that Cedar himself seriously had issues of his own, that needed perhaps more attention than the elder’s personality problem. This brings us back to Jesus words of “first remove the rafter from your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the straw from your brother’s eye.” (Mt 7:5)
And yes, I have experienced what you call the “dark side” of the scene and have dealt with elders whom I thought were either complete idiots or unfair. I’ve lost privileges before and never was even specifically told WHY I lost those privileges. I so hell bent at the time that I wrote the Branch and they replied, and the problem was sorted out and I had an attitude change. Also I’ve recently experienced how unorganized our local brothers really are, but at the same time I’ve seen how things still get accomplished due to the lack of order. Sometimes we have to swallow our pride and realize that the appointment men may give only 1% smarts to a situation, but Jehovah God’s holy spirit will make up the other 99%. If his spirit wasn’t active there is no way we could accomplish what we accomplish each and every day as witnesses!
I’d love to chat more but have to read part of Hebrews chapters 1-8 for this week’s bible reading. You should read it too. It can’t hurt. ;-)
Kind Regards
Jeremy
“I’m familiar enough with the bible that I don’t need other publications to back up my thoughts. I can even expose Cedar’s twisted line of reasoning using only the bible and have actually done it already.”
If only that were true. As I’ve already shown on your other comment, your arguments rely, not on the Bible, but on applying false logic to the Governing Body. “Leave them alone, they’re only human” only works if the Governing Body humbly offer their teachings on a take-it-or-leave-it basis without any ramifications toward those who choose to disagree. Instead they punish dissenters by smearing them as “mentally diseased” and weaponizing their loved ones against them – the most cruel and sadistic punishment imaginable. Stand up for such despicable charlatans if you will, but don’t you dare claim to have the Bible’s authority in doing so.
As to “wanting to be stumbled” – I can easily turn that argument round and make exactly the same observation of you. You look at the UN/NGO and Mexico/Malawi scandals, and the outrageous mishandling of child abuse, and you dismiss it all. Why? Because you desperately WANT to believe that you haven’t wasted so many years following just another flawed man-made organization. You thus make a deliberate cognitive decision to dismiss damning evidence that Watchtower has no role in any divine plan, and assuage your raging cognitive dissonance by bravely putting your hands over your ears and saying, “la la, I can’t hear you!” Well, deal with things that way if you want, but while your head is in the sand don’t criticize those of us who are willing to apply reason, think logically, and reach rational conclusions based on evidence.
As to my being “rubbed the wrong way” by an elder, you speak of what you do not know – or cannot know unless you were in my congregation. The elder I took issue with was a monster, and his vile bullying caused a great deal of unnecessary suffering and anguish in the congregation. The situation I referred to about the brother being counselled for materialism simply for buying a new car led to his wife getting up in the middle of one meeting while her husband was on the platform and running outside in tears due to feelings of shame. So don’t you dare suggest I was wrong to try to come to the rescue of these people even though I had private faults of my own.
As it turns out, the bully elder was just one of many in an organization riddled with corrupt, power hungry men who enjoy treading over the feelings and needs of others to make themselves feel good. And I’m somehow not allowed to talk about it because I’ve had problems between my wife and I of an entirely different sort? Absolute nonesense. Go and peddle this silliness elsewhere.
To Iron Stylus,
Do not worry, the Watchtower Society will bring itself down when the time is ripe.
Or as the saying goes “Every dog has his day”.
The rifts that are opening up within the organization is becoming wider and wider as it’s members start waking up to the Watchtower Society’s tactics and manipulation by words through it’s literature, talks, and actions through the body of Elders that act as it’s watchdogs and enforces the Watchtower Society’s policies.
The control that the hierarchy (Governing Body) have over it’s members through it’s spy-network (Pioneers, ministerial servants, and over zealous witnesses), and it’s spiritual police force, (the Elders) would make even America’s Homeland Security envious.
Iron Stylus, Walmart, Samsung, McDonalds go from strength to strength, is holy spirit responsible for their growth too? What about Mormons and Muslims how do you explain their growth?
Your post sounds like someone dedicated to a cult. The cult is always right and when it’s wrong it’s still right.
I shared the same views as you at one time. JW is in your heart so rationale argument gets nowhere.
Very powerful story, I applaud you & your family for this very brave step you have taken. I have been following your site for about two months now and it has been refreshing to find others that realize these major problems with this org. I share many of your same experiences as I grew up during the 80’s and 90’s. I’m a born-in, really contemplating how and when to make my “exit”. I sincerely thank you for sharing your experience and encourage you to keep up the good fight.
I hope these pathetic JW apologists, those who imagine there is some glory in being an unpaid mag. distributor for a corrupt global property and publishing corporation, have noticed just how many of their Kingdom Hall fellows no longer believe the lies and nonsense peddled by their bosses. So many of the stagnating numbers of the organisation are inactive or hang on purely to avoid family breakup. The exposure campaign on all fronts, of this obscene outfit is only just beginning. Hopefully this is the beginning of the end for one of Christendom’s ugliest manifestations to date.
Not having to be right, wrong, up, down, or having to read Hebrews 1-8 is just the perfect way to spend an evening. Cedars, does not seem to need to be right, just open and curious, kind, thoughtful and honest.
Hear! Hear! Sue.