After running JWsurvey for more than two years, the time has finally come to share my story.
Why has it taken so long? Because when I first set up this website I was still technically a Witness – constantly in fear of reprisals from my family or my local elders if my true identity was ever discovered.
Now, after much discussion and soul-searching, my wife and I have both made the decision to part ways with the organization – regardless of how our Witness family responds.
There are multiple reasons for this huge leap, the main one being that my wife is pregnant. Both of us refuse to raise our child in a religion we know to be false, or to allow any of our relatives to attempt this with the excuse that we are still Witnesses – which would be the case if we remained inactive.
Taking this stand has come at considerable cost – a cost imposed on us by Watchtower. We have yet to hand in formal letters of disassociation, but we have let our family know gradually over the last few weeks. This has resulted in a considerable backlash.
On my side of the family in particular I have been subjected to insults and character assassinations – attempts to call my motives into question and frame me as “selfish” simply for acting on my convictions, and standing up for my own beliefs.
My father (who is an elder) hasn’t been abusive, but he has reaffirmed that he will be shunning us the moment things become official. We spent a few days vacation together in picturesque Northern Croatia before I sat him down and attempted to explain my position.
After I revealed the information on the UN/NGO scandal to Dad by showing him newspaper articles from 2001, he was initially nauseous and didn’t want to hear any more. A day later he told me he refuses to hear my side of the argument, and will be shunning me once things are official. In his mind there is no contradiction that he will be spending his time trying to persuade people of other faiths to challenge their convictions, while refusing to hold his own beliefs to even the slightest scrutiny.
It has been deeply hurtful and distressing for me to witness my own father, who I deeply love, surrender his reason and common sense with so little struggle – especially with so much at stake. It is still more distressing that I am being blamed for any shunning that ensues even though these are Watchtower’s rules, not mine. After all, I am happy to have a relationship with all of my Witness relatives no matter what they believe.
The more I observe the utter refusal of certain family members to even listen to my reasons, and hold me to a decision I made when I was 11, the more obvious it is that I am escaping a manipulative cult where independent thinking is ruthlessly crushed and loved ones are considered expendable wherever loyalty to the Governing Body is concerned.
You may well ask what brought me to this stage, and how I came to doubt my beliefs in the first place? I am writing a book on this at the moment, but I will do my best to present a summary of my story in this article.
***When this article was written, I still felt the need to keep my real name secret due to concerns over my family. Since then I have decided to be open about my real name, which is Lloyd Evans, but I will continue writing under the moniker “John Cedars” since that is the name so many people know me by.***
An unconventional upbringing
I was born in Manchester, England, in 1979 and raised in Wilmslow, which used to be a quiet leafy village in the suburbs, but is now a wealthy neighborhood known for its celebrity residents – mostly footballers and their wives.
I had an upbringing in which Armageddon was very much a real event that could strike at any moment.
One evening, our family worship featured an “Armageddon drill.” My father received what turned out to be a fake phone call telling him that the Great Tribulation was upon us. My family was to hurry to join the brothers and sisters at the local kingdom hall, because we would all be heading off to Macclesfield Forest to make our escape from the authorities under Satan’s control.
I remember running upstairs and frantically stuffing various items in my rucksack, including a recently released book called Revelation – It’s Grand Climax At Hand incase I somehow needed it. In that moment I was convinced I was witnessing the end of the system of things.
It was only when I came downstairs and saw the smiles on the faces of my parents and sister that I realised the joke was on me.
I was baptized in December 1990, age 11. I remember my mother crying at my baptism. In the years that followed I did my best to make my parents proud by being an exemplary Witness youth.
My parents were not as strict as others in our congregation, so they encouraged me to go to college after high school. I studied art for two years. Even so, it wasn’t long before I felt the pull of pioneering, in no way diminished by the constant pressure from the platform for young ones to pursue full-time service as a “career.” I started regular pioneering in September 1998 – the same month that I was announced as a ministerial servant. I had just turned 19.
The following year I experienced my first “crisis of conscience” when the Daniel book (or Pay Attention To Daniel’s Prophecy) was released at the “God’s Prophetic Word” District Convention. I remember being initially very excited. I felt I would be able to relate to it more than the Revelation Climax book, which by now seemed crazy and garish to me. I took my copy of the Daniel book home and read it quickly.
As I devoured its convoluted reflections on bible prophecy, feelings of disappointment slowly overcame me. I encountered various explanations of scripture that simply did not add up. For example, how could the Roman Empire become Anglo-America in one prophecy, but become Nazi Germany (an enemy of Anglo-America) in another? Should there not be some kind of consistency in God’s inspired word?
The more I dwelled on this and other issues, the more I suspected that the Governing Body was simply making things up as they were going along – “shoe-horning” scriptures to fit historical events.
My doubts eventually came to the attention of my Presiding Overseer after my ministry partner snitched on me. He took me aside one afternoon while on field service, listened to my issues for a while, and then said: “Listen, I just want to know one thing. Do you believe in 1914, or not?”
When I said that yes, I believed in 1914, he said, “Well that’s all that matters!” – and our conversation was over. After this bizarre exchange, I pressed ahead with my progress as a Witness, but always with niggling doubts in the far reaches of my mind.
A life-changing tragedy
Then in 2001 my world collapsed when my mother died of breast cancer. I was 21 at the time. Mum first fell ill in 1999 but received treatment, including a mastectomy, which forced her cancer into remission. But it resurfaced a year later and consumed her very quickly, despite aggressive chemotherapy. On May 9th 2001, Mum’s doctor gave her three weeks to three months to live. She passed away 12 days later while we were on our final family holiday in Cornwall.
Mum’s death forced me to push any lingering doubts as far back in my mind as I possibly could and soldier on with my “career” in the organization. After all, serving Jehovah loyally was my one and only chance of being reunited with her in the resurrection. I couldn’t let her down.
When I was 22 I began applying to attend MTS (now the “Bible School for Single Brothers”). I was finally accepted at the age of 25, and attended the 29th Class in Britain at the Assembly Hall in Dudley. I was thrilled and extremely proud, not least because by going through the course I was fulfilling one of my Mum’s dying wishes.
Mum had told me in one of our final conversations that in the resurrection she wanted to see a video of my MTS graduation. She didn’t know that the filming of graduations is prohibited by the organization, but simply by going and graduating I knew I would be meeting her expectations. I would film what I could while I was there, just in case.
Attending MTS was a mostly uplifting and enjoyable experience. What I most appreciated was the camaraderie and friendships with guys my age from all over the UK and parts of Europe. It felt as though there were little or no distinctions between students who were ministerial servants (like me) and students who were elders. We were all sharing the same experience together as those seeking to learn.
During the course there were one or two moments that made me stop and ponder, such as during one class when our instructor told us to put a line through some words in one of our volumes of Insight on the Scriptures. Apparently this change was required because of “new light” since these books were published.
The words we were asked to delete can still be plainly seen on current versions of Watchtower Library. I thought to myself at the time, “If these words are so wrong that we are being asked to delete them, shouldn’t ALL Witnesses receive similar instructions for their Insight Volumes?”
After two months the class came to an end, and I graduated along with 21 others. My Dad, sister, and some of my close friends came along to what proved to be an emotional graduation ceremony. I was interviewed and asked to relate my experiences leading up to the course, including the death of my mother and the fact that I had quit my job in order to attend.
At the end of the graduation I joined my classmates in singing an acoustic rendition of “Life Without End At Last” with my guitar. The audience erupted in applause. It felt like I had reached the pinnacle of my achievements within the organization. I was determined to put my training to good use.
A year after my MTS, I flew out to Croatia for a reunion with a number of my classmates. One student, named Miroslav,* invited us to spend some time with his congregation in Sisak, about an hour’s drive south from Zagreb.
It was in Sisak that I met my future wife, who was pioneering at the time. After a few months of getting to know each other through emails and phone calls she agreed to move to the UK so that we could pursue our relationship.
Six months after her arrival I proposed to her with a cheap silver ring (all I could afford as a poor pioneer!) on a row-boat in the middle of a windswept lake in the Lake District. She accepted, although later joked that she only said “yes” because she wanted to get off the boat!
We were married in the summer of 2007 on the Croatian coast, and honeymooned in Venice, Switzerland and Paris on our drive home to the UK. On our return, we resumed pioneering together in the same congregation.
We began married life living in a small basement flat in a rough part of Stockport. The sound of police sirens screeching through the night formed the soundtrack to most of our evenings. Looking back it was an inauspicious start to our new life together, but it was all we could afford as pioneers on part-time wages. In fact we couldn’t afford even that, because we soon started to slide into debt.
The call to elderhood, and the anti-climax
In April 2008 I was thrilled to be appointed as an elder. I felt as though I could finally put my MTS training to full use, and take a more active role in helping people. I already loved giving talks, but it was the shepherding side that I was really looking forward to. I was anxious to help people with their problems in any way I could.
But it wasn’t long before reality started to sink in, and I began to see what being an elder was really all about. I soon discovered that elder bodies are intensely political, easily manipulated by strong personalities, and that elders are most definitely not appointed by holy spirit as Watchtower so often claims.
Our congregation had a particularly thuggish Presiding Overseer (now known as a Coordinator) who seemed to delight in bullying the brothers and making their lives miserable. He would think nothing of counselling a brother who bought a new Range Rover on being too materialistic, or imposing arbitrary rules on a teenage boy not to socialize with a young sister he liked.
When I did my best to correct this bully elder’s overbearing behavior in the only way I could think of, I was chastised for going about it in the wrong manner. I was kept as an elder, but stripped of certain privileges, including my pioneer status.
My wife also had her pioneer status removed at this time, even though she had nothing to do with my elder issues. I was told that, since both of us had been failing to meet our hour requirement, I was to break the news to my wife that she too was no longer a pioneer.
And so, after eight years of selfless full-time service for the organization in two different countries, my wife was unceremoniously sacked as a pioneer through her husband without so much as a “thank you.”
My lowest point
But these troubles were soon to pale into insignificance when my wife made a heartbreaking discovery. She learned that, though I hadn’t cheated on her, I had been fraternizing with girls on the internet in ways that I shouldn’t have done as a married man. I had a big issue with cyber sex and pornography, which I had developed as a teenager, and which remained with me even into my marriage.
I am not proud of my actions, and to this day I grimace at what I put my wife through. She has never been anything but loyal and loving, and it saddens me that I hurt her by betraying her trust so early in our marriage.
I also feel it was hypocritical of me to accept an appointment as an elder with the aim of helping others and offering spiritual guidance when I had so many issues of my own to contend with. I was living a double life and being dishonest with people.
Even so, I can’t help but consider these actions to be very much a by-product of sexual repression in my formative years. In particular, I think of the difficulties I had in finding a marriage partner from a narrow pool of Witness girls, and the unscriptural Watchtower injunctions designed to induce guilt over masturbation.
Of course, I accept responsibility for my actions and I do not blame Watchtower for everything. After all, plenty of Witnesses seem to develop into well-balanced adults without these problems.
But my wife and I both now realise that sexual repression in my upbringing was a major factor. It forced me into finding ways of satisfying my natural sexual urges as a virgin without intercourse so as to remain “morally clean,” and this led to an unhealthy dependency on the internet and pornography.
Once my wife discovered my problem we had a number of emotional exchanges. Decisions needed to be made. My first instinct was to sweep things under the rug and work things out between us, but in the end I decided to stand down as an elder and move back to the congregation I had grown up in to receive discipline.
Apart from anything else I knew I wouldn’t get a fair trial from the bully elder, who would doubtless want to make sure I suffered further for daring to question him. This matter involved my wife and I, and not him – so I chose to receive my punishment from elders I felt I could rely on to be impartial.
I wrote an exhaustive confession in a letter and posted it through the letter box of my new Coordinator. Before long I was summoned to a Judicial Committee and made to relive everything I had done in excruciating detail, despite my signed confession which had already explained everything.
At one point I remember being reduced to tears. By the end of it all, it was decided that I should be reproved and not disfellowshipped. However, my reproof was to be publicly announced both in my new and former congregations to make it clear that I had done wrong during my time as an elder.
A fresh start
Around this time my wife and I agreed that we needed a fresh start, so we decided to move to live with her parents in Croatia. Our years spent pioneering had left us with very little money and a mountain of debt, but we at least had an opportunity to build an apartment for ourselves without worrying about rent or mortgage payments.
And so we packed up our belongings and made the move across Europe to Croatia in the summer of 2009. At the time I recall being determined to restore my spirituality, and maybe even work my way back to serving as an elder again eventually.
For the first few months in my new congregation I continued under the restrictions from my reproof in the UK, meaning that I couldn’t answer up at meetings or participate in any talks on the Theocratic Ministry School.
I was reduced to being a mere observer at meetings that I could scarcely understand due to the language barrier. I knew a few words of Croatian, but certainly not enough to follow closely what was being said.
Before long, something unexpected happened. My identity as a Witness disintegrated as I could feel myself being unplugged from the indoctrination. For the first time I began to ask myself, “What do I truly believe?”
I recalled my doubts about the Daniel book from when I was 20. I found I was able to add a number of other issues and teachings that I could no longer agree with. Eventually I sat down and wrote a list of nine “grievances.” When I looked at the list, it was obvious to me that I was now only a Witness in name only. There were just too many things wrong with the organization for it to be the “truth.”
Eventually my restrictions were lifted and I began giving Bible readings in Croatian on the school meetings. Elders would give me encouragement, leaving me with the impression that I would be re-appointed before too long if I just put forth a little effort. But by this time it was too late. I was already waking up.
Then one day in May 2011, after pouring out my feelings to my wife, I decided to declare myself inactive. I felt I needed to let my Dad know of my decision by telephone. I recall him being heartbroken. I broke down in tears once I had finished talking to him. No son relishes the idea of being viewed as a failure by his father.
I wrote a letter to my elders briefly explaining my reasons for being inactive. In hindsight, I realise that my elders could have very easily taken this as a letter of disassociation and severed me from the organization there and then, but for some reason they didn’t want to do this. At least, not to begin with.
Stalling the inquisition
Two elders visited and we had a long and tearful discussion. I explained that I would still be attending memorials each year (to keep my family happy, in my mind) but that I could no longer go preaching when I had so many doubts. They chose to respect this, so I assumed that would be the end of it.
Around this time a new elder joined our congregation from Zagreb bethel, and he soon learned of my inactivity. He decided he didn’t like the way things had been handled, and convinced himself that there must be more to my decision than I was letting on.
This elder pulled my wife to one side at the end of one meeting and interrogated her in the back room, asking questions about my behavior and quizzing her as to our business affairs. My wife and I run a small business, and he and others had come up with a theory that I was staying on as a Witness just so I could exploit Witnesses when handing out work.
All of this happened at roughly the time I finished reading Crisis of Conscience and learned of the 1980 witch hunt against the likes of Raymond Franz and Nestor Kuilan. It felt very much like my elders had me in their sights in the same way, and were determined to disfellowship me on any pretext – real or imagined. All they needed now was a chance to grill me for information having failed to get anything from my wife.
I received a phone call from an elder asking to arrange a visit, but I told him in no uncertain terms that they had broken the rules by interrogating my wife without me being present, and I would therefore not be cooperating with any attempts to offer me “help” until I received a full apology.
Predictably the apology never came, and I was finally left alone. If there was one thing I knew I could rely on, it was the pride of elders and their tendency to deny doing anything wrong. This uneasy stand-off gave me the freedom I needed to explore my new reality without being immediately separated from my family.
The birth of JWsurvey
As things settled and I grew accustomed to my new life as a “fader” I continued to trawl the internet for information. JWfacts.com in particular was a real eye-opener. It was on Paul Grundy’s site that I learned of the UN/NGO scandal, Rutherford’s letter to Hitler, and the Mexico/Malawi scandal. Barbara Anderson’s website also informed me on the complexities of the child abuse issue, and how Watchtower is causing real harm in that regard. Everything began to fall into place.
The more I learned, the more I wanted to share. I was also curious as to how many others like me were out there. I began thinking of ways to poll such ones for their opinions so that people could see at a glance what the consensus was among thinking Witnesses.
Then one day I proposed setting up a survey of Jehovah’s Witnesses, and I began experimenting with ways of making this a reality. I thought it would cost a lot of money to set up, but an Ex-JW web developer and writer called John Hoyle came to my rescue completely out of the blue. He contacted me and essentially said, “If you want I can build you a website that can host your survey, and you won’t need to pay me anything for it.”
At first I thought it was impossible for a complete stranger to be so kind and make such an offer with no thought of payment, but I figured I had nothing to lose in accepting. Before long, JWsurvey.org was launched. The rest, as they say, is history.
A reason to take a stand
Fast forward two years or so, and yesterday I found myself attending a hospital appointment with my wife, who is three months into her pregnancy. This was our first opportunity to see our first baby in the womb by means of an ultrasound.
As the grainy images came up on the screen, I was overwhelmed with emotion. I could see our baby’s heart pumping in its chest. I could see its legs folded buddha-like beneath it. I could even see its fingers as its hands were raised almost covering its alien-like face.
The thought occurred to me, “I will love this person unconditionally its whole life, no matter what it thinks, says or does. I will never allow myself to be separated from it, no matter what happens.”
Unlike me, this child will be taught only proven facts – not religious dogma designed to reinforce the unquestioned control of an elite group of deluded theocrats who insulate themselves from even the mildest criticism.
There will be no “Armageddon drills.” There will be no fear, guilt, or paranoia. There will be only love and acceptance. My child will have all the opportunities I never had as a youngster – including the chance to build a life for itself doing and believing whatever it chooses, with my support.
Yes, my Witness family is bitterly disappointed in me. Yes, they view me as a traitor. But there is nothing I can do about that other than to build my own family, free of such rifts and divisions. Though this is proving traumatic for me, I cannot live the rest of my life bending over backwards to conform to the expectations of my indoctrinated forebears.
They may prefer for me to remain inactive, trapped in some sadistic vow of silence so that the mother organization can continue to wreak havoc undisturbed. But I refuse to tacitly bend my knee to Watchtower for a moment longer. A stand must be taken. A line must be drawn.
After all these articles it is high time for me to talk with my feet – especially with my child’s future at stake. Yes, fading is a great option if you can stay quiet and pull it off, and I support those who handle matters in that way. But if you are an activist like myself with something to say about Watchtower and the means to say it, you will find it increasingly difficult to keep it going for too long before something has to give.
The journey continues
I know many of you reading my story will be disappointed at my personal failings, but please understand that I am only human and never set myself up as a role model or spiritual guru for anyone. I am interested only in exposing the scandals and falsehoods of an organization that claims to represent God as honestly and journalistically as possible.
I have not the faintest interest in drawing off followers, preaching alternative doctrines or telling people how to live their lives. I am interested only in revealing the truth about Watchtower, and I feel my experiences within the organization, both good and bad, put me in a great position to do this.
Nothing I write should be considered as beyond question – in fact I am happy to receive criticisms and make changes to articles if needed. I am committed to using my energies to join with other more seasoned campaigners in informing the world about what I view as a damaging cult, which I see tearing my own family apart and threatening countless others.
To all those who have sent messages of support and solidarity over the past few days via Facebook and email, I give my heartfelt gratitude. It is not easy to make this stand. I have shed more than a few tears, but I know what I am doing is right.
By going through this pain now I am sparing future generations from the same problems. I want to give my child a life free from fear and indoctrination, with the opportunity to explore this amazing thing called life without the shackles of ignorance and servitude. I can think of no finer legacy to pass on.
*Miroslav has recently been disfellowshipped for apostasy. On his facebook profile, he identifies himself as a follower of the Bible Students.
Translations: Romanian | …
Related video…
@greg
(Test of reply button.)
Do not bring up Augustine to me. It will be torn to pieces.
Rob, there is protection now, is there?
As you have stated that you are an elder, you have a copy of shepherding the flock of God hidden away in your cupboard.
What protection is mentioned in that tome?
At no point are you told to tell the police about abuse. You may tell them…..but, then again, you may not.
You have now proved yourself beyond doubt a witness stooge. You only post here to deceive the ignorant that your religion is lovely.
Cedars! Time to block Johhny B Goode, oh, sorry I meant Rob.
Rob, if I still believed in God, I would pray for you. As I don’t I can only say that I pity you. You have chosen to defend the indefensible. You have chosen to lie to people about child protection in the WTBTS, knowing full well that you are doing it.
In my book, that makes you one of the most disgusting human beings I have ever had the misfortune to encounter.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
You are Free…..you are finally Free!
You are a true HERO in every sense of the word!
A Hero:
Marches into the darkness even though does not know the outcome.
Faces his greatest fears with courage and tears.
Is a voice for the voiceless.
Makes mistakes on the way and admits it.
Never gives up.
Is a shining example for all to show anything is possible.
A beacon of light to lead the way for those who have forgotten unconditional love and compassion.
Hope.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for your bravery. You are not alone. It is showing true Love for your family and friends not to live a lie. They might not see it now…but they will. There are countless faders and fringers grasping on to love ones because we know we are holding “doorways” open to the outside world. We are holding these positions for a reason. Trust in the timing. Knowledge is enlightenment and fear can not hide forever. It is trickling down.
I would like to comment candidly on anyone who has made “mistakes” in regards to a sexual nature. I made a reply yesterday on the Conti Abuse case. I feel strongly that I need to post it again for all to see:
Metaphysically speaking these poor excuses for humans who do this to children are literally stealing their victim’s power because they have none of their own. Your sexual CHI energy is everyone’s creative life force and power connected to All That Is/Universal Energy/God/Source/Prime Creator. When you are grounded to the earth with your Red root Chakra you can not be swayed by these Schizophrenic Cults that attempt to keep you unbalanced and ungrounded and only in your upper Chakras to use your power for their liking. This is religions dirty little secret. Clever marketing Red devil, fear and paranoia on blood. It has been hidden for centuries to keep people under control and in a lower vibration matrix of fear. Everything is energy vibrating at different frequency rates to so we can experience form in lower dimensional realities. Good news is “they” never had the power in the first place it is all an illusion! Smoke and mirrors. Planet wide we are all waking up to that fact as religion is crumbling before are eyes. The irony of it is that we really Are moving into a better place, a higher vibration of love (528hz) as we learn and share our Individual knowledge. Everyone has a piece of the puzzle. Hope this helps anyone who is recovering from abuse to regain their personal Power.
How about instead of shame and shunning we look at the imbalances in our body and ask why. Religions have been using the whole shame game for eons to control are sexuality. If people are suppressed it is going to play out in very odd and imbalanced destructive behaviors. It is simply a symptom of the whole.
As Cedar has bravely shown us on his journey, it is just as important to go inward feel it and heal it…..and still be a voice for others.
Thanks again for a safe place to vent.
Love to all :-)
Dear John,
I am so proud of you. Your candid honesty is refreshing & I am sure we can all identify to the sexual repression you spoke of.
Proud to know you.
Congratulations John!! I’m happy that you are comfortable with your decision to move forward. Excellent!!
And congratulations on the new addition!! All the best!! Your sentiments about raising your child make me proud to say that I’m an ex-JW too. There are many that struggle, but by sharing experiences and thoughts like this, encouragement can be had for all.
@ex
As said before, you do not welcome jw survey intent. Please leave.
Don’t worry Babs it was just a joke.
Rob says:
On November 6, 2013 at 6:15 pm
“@ex
As said before, you do not welcome jw survey intent. Please leave.”
As I stated before, only now with more detail:
Cedars may very well correct me if I’m wrong but your repeated and pesky claims that “JW’s are not being welcomed here” which is a veiled charge of your being mistreated or persecuted (Vomit bags at the ready)
The “invitation” is made by the web moderators at their discretion and not yours and it pertains to the “survey” portion of the website hence, JWsurvey.org…the blog portion of the website is purely ancillary and although sincere persons ARE clearly welcome, no invitation as far as I have ever found is made for anyone with respect to opportunistic manipulation or exploitation, dispensation of harmful propaganda on behalf of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society as you continue to maintain…
Congratulations friend on your freedom and your new baby, cheers to you and your wife.
You are brilliant proof that inherent human caring and morality can shine through this destructive organization. Every time I hear a story such as yours it makes me ill, the thought of how on earth an org. can strip people of their natural humanity and moral identity.
I fervently hope there are many more liberating stories such as yours. Congrats again and best wishes for you and your family!
Max
@ex
Well anyone who you says they don’t pray….
Look been there, did that …
@konrad
Your vitriolic spew will be deferred to Cedars moderation. I think you are out of line.
@konrad
“Your vitriolic spew will be deferred to Cedars moderation. I think you are out of line.”
I might very well be, who knows? At the moment? I’m so entirely fed up with the conduct of individuals who would have their way with others and attempt to exploit the innocence and sincerity of people and those who seek to help others that I don’t care all that much…Not to mention the brutal and cruel criminal source behind it all so I’m not so sure that I am!
Sorry that you are talking to someone who has never experienced that … or probably 10000 other Witnesses including my whole extended family of 3 generations.
Rob says:
On November 6, 2013 at 7:22 pm
“Sorry that you are talking to someone who has never experienced that … or probably 10000 other Witnesses including my whole extended family of 3 generations.”
No,
At present you are one of the suspected sources of it and we all know how credible anything you have posted has been thus far…
Is this Rob guy a joke? Is he part of the campaign to discredit the JWs? Real JWs, if that is what he is, cannot do anything but that.
To list the achievements of the Watchtower is a simple task.
1. They have stunted millions of lives with their despisal of education beyond the acquisition of the basic literacy necessary to read Watchtower publications.
2. They have condemned thousands to unnecessary death with their ever changing edicts on blood transfusion.
3. With reference to para 2, they demonstrate the ultimate in hypocrisy. That is, they permit the receipt of blood fractions but not their donation.
4. They protect paedophiles.
5. They break up families with their shunning diktats.
6. They are the cause of nightmares with their Armageddon fantasy.
7. They have made a series of duff prophecies about the advent of Armageddon.
8. They have mastered the dark arts of cult mind control such that people like Rob, (unless he is a joker deliberately highlighting the mind rot necessary to remain a JW) will actually believe that a bunch of controlling, self righteous, self appointed and money grabbing old men in New York State are God’s exclusive earthly reps. With this utterly absurd and unevidenced belief safely planted in their followers’ minds this bunch of old men can then use threats of imminent Armageddon extermination to squeeze ever more unpaid labour from their global magazine distribution army. Thus the capital value of this corrupt empire, continues, for the moment, to expand.
Rob, if you are a real JW, be prepared for a change of lifestyle. The campaign to expose your corrupt cult is gathering momentum. The Watchtower’s days are numbered. It will either fall or have to adapt beyond recognition.
Of course, there should be no laws against people, should they wish, gathering in dismal rooms to hear boring talks, while wearing boring suits, with their meetings topped and tailed by some of the most dismal music in Christendom. The abuses, however, must end.
Ok then what is your personal experience? No not on Internet forums. In reality? I have experienced the loving brotherhood when I needed help.
Absolutely right about the loving brotherhood. However that love is not a genuine kind but a conditional one. Will you have the same love and treatment from your ‘loving brotherhood’ should you stop making to the meetings or field service or even worse have doubts on some “new light” teachings?
Your personal failings? – You recognised that you were being a hypocrite so you cut it out, but it sounds to me you were still doing a better job than most elders I have had the displeasure of meeting.
I am happy I’ve found your website, while I myself have ‘faded’ out of the congregation I do my best to inform others that the JW’s are not all they crack themselves up to be.
Articles on this site have helped me – and my friends who are still stuck in the cult – to continue to feel sane even though the society would like everyone to believe we are mentally sick.
Good health to you, your wife and baby.
Rob says:
On November 6, 2013 at 7:49 pm
“I have experienced the loving brotherhood when I needed help.”
Well Good Gravy!
What in the World are you doing hanging out on JWsurvey.org peeing and moaning about how bad we are treating you!
Go be with your “loving brotherhood” and ask them to make it all better for you!
The first thing I would want to do is “Go where the love is!” certainly not be hanging out on a forum where people are persecuting me and hindering my perceived “Right to Free Speech”
“Because I’m a JW!” unless you have another motive, agenda or commission?
However, if you think that I’m going to engage in a debate with you, you are fundamentally Brain Damaged! Most regulars have a very, very small knowledge of my story already…
What a phenomenally written and profoundly moving article!
Nothing could have been better stated. Your self-analysis of your situation is a microcosm of the larger issues that many people in the Watchtower organization have had and are currently having. The deep revelations and intelligent analyses of them struck a chord within me. One in which brought comfort and consolation to know that I am most certainly not alone in my plight. I cannot thank you enough, John, for your tireless efforts in bringing to my attention the truth about the organization with your objective, unbiased, factual, well-researched information. You are truly a gem within the ex-JW community and more importantly, among humanity itself. I salute you for your great courage and honor you for your manifest humility.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you, again.
Again, I say, JWs are not welcomed here. Cedar has said he welcomes JWs survey=opinion. Get on the same page.
This is not my site, but in view of the site’s objectives, it would appear that any contribution from a real believing JW can only further those objectives. Real JWs can only highlight the tragic delusion and twisted mindset of those whose lives have been imprisoned by the malign control freaks on the Governing Body. This bunch of old men have convinced their flock, with zero evidence, that they are God’s sole appointed earthly mediators.
Wrong.
“You are brain damaged” … Hmmmm sounds like cyber-bullying
@Rob. the GB has used almost the same words on those who differ in opinion from their unconventional ever volarile teachingz. so dont be soooo self righteous.
@newlkam. I doubt you are sincere in seeking truth but will be happy to answer your questions. What is your email?
It is great that you have finally been able to be open about who you are. You have lost a lot standing up to a cult, but you have gained freedom. You can be proud that the strength of you and your wife means your child does not have to be subjected to Watchtower fear and guilt.
Wow John… What a powerful and honest story. As you know I can relate in coming out because of a need to share and help others see they are not alone.
You have done such a great job… and you were an inspiration for me to come out when I did.
You have all my support!!!
Congratulations on this new chapter!
Much love and peace to you and yours. :)
Cedars, Thank you for sharing your story. That took a lot of courage, breaking away like that.
I know it doesn’t feel like it now, but I can tell you from my own experience that your family will miss you more than you will miss them. And somewhere deep inside them is guilt they have to live with…if they have any conscience at all.
Freedom from the (b)organisation will enable you to choose your own family now and move on with your life. People don’t necessarily have to be relatives to feel like family.
I wish the best for you and your wife and your precious coming baby. Best start resting up now…to prepare for all those sleepless nights. Babies are absolutely worth !!!!
Your journey is an inspiration. Your strength to put it out on the net for others to see, and more than likely create a chain reaction of strength for others needing to release themselves from the bindings of the WT, but not sure how, is to be admired.
You are so young to have such direction and determination.
Congrats on your upcoming little one. Nothing in life is greater than watching your child grow and giving them all the direction you know how to become even greater than you are. It is an amazing, exciting (and sometimes scary!) thing to go through.
No, Rob. A JW’s brain is not physically damaged. Its potential, however, is stunted so long as it is under the manipulation of the JW Gov. Bod. Once released from the control of the old men in New York state the brain’s potential can be fully realised such that life is wonderfully enriched
Glad to discuss. Your email?
Pointless – JWs do not know the meaning of discussion. They can only indoctrinate as they have been indoctrinated. Your Gov. Bod. invents its ever changing ‘truths’. It issues them via its mags and global network of Kingdom Halls. It demands absolute and unconditional agreement to its every doctrine and diktat and convinces its followers that God will murder them at Armageddon for any deviation.
@ ROB. u’r GB strongly condemns having association with so-called “mentally diseased” apostates…is that how loving and polite they can get when challenged? or is that a tongue ‘seasoned with salt’?…..i guess u are ready to get fried by your fellow puppet elders…or whatever u call them. SO VERY MALICIOUS PEOPLE!!!
iam almost giving up on my jw identity. just waiting for the right time to quit. i appreciate your work CEDARS. tremendous amount of energy and soul searching was put into this fantastic piece of literature. the GB has always switched goal posts on their teachings,over praised their erroneous so-called silver sword,silenced the bright heads by denying them access to higher educ,maliciously and expediciously pursuing the “mind-opened” ones,and forcing youths into disastrous marriages as they attempted on my brother. they ask youths to reach out yet their appointment system is soooo political. we’ve got some ‘bad ass’ sisters in my congregation…i mean they are masters in duping brothers and yet they enjoy a special status in the congregation just bcoz they are financialy loaded. SO VERY MALICIOUS ELDERS!!!
Millwall, I hear and share your experiences with the political atmosphere in JW’s. I often wondered to myself why many young, handsome brothers walked away from Kingdom Hall, Witnesses, and the “young sister” they had become betrothed. Now, as I became older and wiser, I began to see how the elders and some of the rich “sisters” would match persons, even compel persons to marry by manipulating them into situations. A classic tactic is where two sisters are vying for a bro, then the elders, and rich (or veteran) sisters, using the parents, would swoop down and challenge the brother to “make a decision”. Thus, there is no casual dating, as the Watchtower pubs print it, ‘there can be no such thing as a platonic relationship, or friendship, between the genders’. With such black/white and perverted thinking, is it any wonder they find themselves saddled with “immorality crisis” and children who escape the system. Or, the countless dead marriages.
I get so upset that nice people have to go through so much pain because of this cult. And I am sorry your father choose to shun you. Remember though that he is a captive of a very strong concept. It’s not easy to escape. But you never know if he might start seeing the TTATT in the future. It took me 50 years to finally see it. In the meantime enjoy your life, enjoy you wife, enjoy your baby, enjoy a good meal, enjoy a warm bed, enjoy a sunset, enjoy, enjoy, enjoy.
And, Rob, according to your bosses you are now dead meat. You have contributed to an apostate website and engaged with apostates. So, in 1914, 1925 or at any rate, sometime before the end of last century, Jehovah will murder you when he gets around to doing his Armageddon.
Cedars, Congratulations. I am glad you chill won’t learn to moo and to bark!!
From “My Bible Lessons” for children, there is an interesting exercise:
“See the animals near Noah’s ark. Which ones moo, and which ones bark?”
The exercise end with:
Try to imitate the sounds of:Dog, Lion, Monkey, Pig, Sheep
(You can download the lesson from http://www.jw.org/en/bible-teachings/family/children/bible-lessons/noahs-ark/)!
Cedars, you child need a more serious education, so he/she becomes important to society, like you in years to come!!
Thank you so much for being so honest about everything,and congratulations on the baby.You have helped so many people and deserve to be happy.Thanks for all your hard work.
Rob says:
On November 6, 2013 at 8:44 pm
““You are brain damaged” … Hmmmm sounds like cyber-bullying”
“If” that’s the charge you want to start throwing around?As someone clearly representing the Watchtower Society…you would be the expert on that I’m sure!
Why don’t you ask “FH Chandler” or “SOS/TPMP/el cacique/Jorge/Jackie/Chrystal Cassandra/Open Minded Bible Student/Nubeluz/Little Jose/Spike” and approximately 20 or more other names and accounts used by this Watchtower operative on topix. com? They and several others (to name just a few things) have committed very serious criminal acts of extreme criminally abusive cyber bullying and cyber stalking and using invasive intrusive software for hacking and other criminal acts as well as repeatedly impersonating medical professionals, making unlawful claims and performing unlawful diagnosis with all earnest online against myself and others to which I have stored on storage device before they and the Society deleted it all…I don’t even doubt that you know these individuals and their real names by person so ask them if you aren’t already fully informed to the last detail!
Roland, well expressed thoughts, I concur wholeheartedly…Rob needs to take off the WTBS mask and allow his mind to REASON for once in his life!
Thanks Ken. The ball is in Rob’s court. Can he please explain why he is still a slave to this ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’. Can he list any other ‘achievements’ of this outfit that deems him worthy only of imminent divine murder, other than those that I listed several post ago? Can he give any reason whatsoever why anyone should surrender their life to a bunch of old frauds and control freaks in New York state?
our conversations about—not commenting on that, but congrats, John Cedars.
@Rob, Ray Franz was a part of the GB, but certainly not in charge of anything. Nathan and Freddy were “in charge”, so any confusion as you state would be at their feet and on their heads, and blood on their hands. Most JW’s today like to place the targeting of 1975 onto Ray Franz, but that came from Freddy not Ray, and dates back before Freddy. In fact, as I’ve come to learn even members of the GB are caught in the trap along with other JW’s because they’re caught in holding up traditions of men that were inherited from Russell, and which Russell adopted and adapted from 2nd-Day Adventists. They are to be pitied. As to a lack of rules, I don’t understand this viewpoint as JW’s have always had rules and frankly were legalistic in terms of obedience. Obedience was always emphasized, placed above sacrifice [Grace]–obedience to what was written in Watchtower publications. Lip-service to following what Scripture says, because if anyone went off-script and applied Scripture verses in opposition to the GB–two men, at the time of the 1960-70s–they were cast aside and ostracized.
The current suite of GB appear to be grabbing notes from their predecessor’s taped notes or scribbled notes trying to hold together their flimsy house of cards of dogma. But, make no mistake, they are astute businessmen–after all, when faced with a legal litigation grabbing hundreds of millions of dollars, they promptly pasted together a “new edition” of the same garbled bible translation [a must-have] to cover the expense–no dent in the bottom-line this year.
Time will tell if they’ve got the “stones” to build 16,000 sq foot manors in Tuxedo Park, NY by publishing their own books outside of the Watchtower (or using the Wt presses), or misappropriating funds.
I’ve read your blogs for some time and relate to much of it – even more so now because I grew up in Altrincham and moved to Stockport when I got married. Can totally relate to the sound of ‘sirens’ by the way ! Also remember seeing you on the platform at Northendon assembly hall a lot. I remember you discussing the tragic loss of your Mum in an interview and thinking to myself what courage you must have to be able to do that.
I’ve been inactive for a few years, my wife attends meetings and we support each other. I’m lucky enough to be able to have a good relationship with my parents. I’m glad you have the support of your wife and may this along with the thought of your kid in the oven keep you going through the difficult times.
The last time we met if I remember right, was a subdued meal in Nando’s a couple of years ago – your wife was there too. Feel free to get in touch and make arrangements to meet up anytime – there’s likely much we could talk about. You’re not alone Cedars.
Best Regards
I applaud Cedars for adding a note on sexuality–seemingly taboo topic among former JW’s, and a scripted topic for JW’s. I’ve only seen (and there may be other discourses) a few commentaries analyzing allowed sexual behaviors (limited to married couples) and tons of disallowed sexual behaviors (for married and singles, including children). In JW meetings, sexual topics–while not explicit–are freely discussed in the presence of teens and younger children.
But, JW’s seem to range just like the gen-pop when it comes to sexual repression or sexual liberties. And, even when it comes to skirting boundaries of permissive behavior, including various sexual aggressives and violators.
My own experience as a consenting adult with an elder ten years older than self may not be like others. I met this elder at a group gathering, and as the event progressed, we were seated for eating, conversation and so forth. Finally, it dawned on me that despite a rather roomy sofa, this elder was pressing his leg against mine–kneecap to kneecap, calf to calf. I move my leg, slightly, an inch or so, and he followed. It was enough to start a conversation that led to an invite for an overnight visit for “mentoring” and friendly talk. I arrived and, after exchange of greetings, we settled down for a little tv watching and chit-chat–I stretched out on his couch after a tiring drive, then he settled at end with my feet and started a generous foot massage extending up my inner thigh. I had read his intent correctly, and slowly let my feet take me exploring, keeping Prov 6:18 in mind. Not really sure how much time passed, but his belt was unbuckled, mine was unbuckled, jeans unrolled, shirts flying off and moments later under a trickling shower head, I had seduced my first JW Elder.
Thank you for sharing, Cedars. It almost emboldens me to also share my story. But I don’t have the cheesy MTS photos and that makes it brilliant. Kudos to you!
Cedar Congratulations! Turn the page Watchtower, satanic organization and Francmaçonne and live your new happiness. Your goal should not be just one thing: your partner and your baby.
I left the organization there is a year after 54 years is my life. My family isolates me as expected. It was very difficult the first few months, in fact I wrote to you and you were gently encouraged me thank you. I create myself other interests and I ignored their hatred because I refused to let me demolish their goal is that we pass by the “suicide” box.
I wish you much happiness in your future.
I have a lot of respect for you and your candor. Continue to love your “best friend” – your wife and make her secure in your love for her. And of course enjoy every moment of “lil Cedars” appearance in your lives.
To poster “ThinkingHard” from South Africa…. There are a lot more “thinkers” in good ole RSA than you realise. btw I am located in the Mother City.