According to the current theology laid out in Watchtower publications, members of the Governing Body are individually appointed by Jesus to serve as part of his “faithful and discreet slave” – his earthly representatives charged with dispensing spiritual “food at the proper time.”
The trouble is, when you carefully scrutinize the words of these men from the platform and acquaint yourself with their idiosyncrasies, it’s hard not to reach the conclusion that either Jesus has NOT chosen these men, or he is a very poor judge of character.
Take for example the following misogynistic remarks made in a talk by Samuel Herd. The recordings in this playlist are believed to date back to 1971* (before Herd was appointed to the Governing Body) in a talk entitled “The Value of Our Theocratic Sisters.”
If I were to walk up to a woman in the street and suggest to her that getting married and filling the needs of a man are among the primary reasons for her existence, that to do so was her desire from childhood, that she lacks the attributes to compete with men or that a man’s cranial capacity is bigger than hers~ I would both expect and deserve a firm slap in the face, whether the year was 1971 or 2014.
That a man who freely voiced such backwards, misogynistic opinions should be personally singled out by Jesus for a role in his ‘faithful slave’ is both laughable and insulting to Christians, because for Jesus to select and endorse such a person without requiring him to publicly recant this nonsense would make Jesus just as much a male chauvinist as Herd.
For those of you who suggest that Herd must surely have shed his disturbing eccentricities since this recording was made, this is not obvious in the following recording from 2005 in which Herd describes the plight of a Witness woman (who “has it in the right places”) being wooed by a worldly man…
If it were only Herd who has been caught making comments of a chauvinist nature that would be one thing, but sadly he is not the only Governing Body member with an appetite for making degrading remarks about women. Consider the following video in which Stephen Lett jokes about “women’s lip”…
Considering that recordings of talks given by Governing Body aren’t exactly a dime a dozen on the internet, one can only imagine what other sexist remarks have been uttered into the microphone by individual components of the “faithful slave” over the years without being caught on tape.
One thing is clear from the above, namely that the source of the humiliating treatment of women in the Witness organization requires little investigation.
It is one thing to invoke bible verses (mostly those of Paul) so that women are barred from taking on a teaching role in a congregation. It is quite another to insist that women should not be allowed to wear trousers, or should be barred from participating in some of the most menial tasks necessary within a kingdom hall, such as distributing literature or handling the sound equipment or microphones, unless no men are present.
Curiously if the microphone stand has the microphone removed from it, and a mop head is affixed in its place, suddenly a woman is miraculously allowed to make use of it.
It is remarkable enough that Watchtower indoctrination is able to convince so many women to put up with such demeaning treatment. But it is even more remarkable that Witnesses should venerate those responsible for it, who even voice their misogynist views from the platform, as hand-picked representatives of God and Christ on Earth.
*I personally doubt that the recording dates as far back as 1971, because this would have meant Herd was only 36 when this talk was given. Such relative youthfulness isn’t obvious in Herd’s voice, but the date does correspond with when he was known to be involved in the traveling overseer work (between 1965 and 1997).
~Though studies have shown that there is a slight statistical increase in the cranial capacity of men compared with women, this does not make men smarter. Women generally have a thicker cerebral cortex and less “dead space” filled with cerebro-spinal fluid. For more information on the subject, click here.
Having followed a recently posted link and listened to some of the twaddle generated by Herd, my impression is that his own more voluminous cranium houses little more than a small quatity of bone-marrow.
What did Samuel Herd mean by “Did you get him off…?”
Saddened and sickened that this and no doubt most of the others of this groups, treat women in this fashion. Upsetting to that so many sisters are under the spell for decades to this subservient role they have become so accustomed to. Slavery in so many ways. Those of us that are married or have a partner of the opposite sex cannot praise them enough as well as being equal to a man. Women are incredible, and I love and respect my own so deeply. I even heard my own JW father turn to my Mum recently and say when questioned about sisters in the hall, he said ” But its the Christian way” Its deep and engrained and so evil. No doubt Mr Herd has made this the norm with every path he has crossed, and no doubt to the liking of misogynistic young elders of M/S. Very sad, very sick.
For those interested, the relevant part starts at 14:15 minutes into the recording.
Interestingly, somewhat earlier, at 13:45 he says: “It [the Bible] says upon the creation of Eve, man became a kind. Thus we had ‘man-kind’. Because a woman is a kind of man.” Anyone know what verse he is referring to, I can’t seem to find it? Anyway, the remark comes across as “inferior to man” to me (perhaps the on-purpose ambiguity in English between “man”-as-male and “man”-as-human-being).
Studying Genesis 2, it just occurred to me how different the creation order is here! (I’ve removed items that are not common to both)
Gen 1 order: (1) plants (2) birds (3) wild animals (4) man
Gen 2 order: (1) man (2) plants, the garden of Eden (3) birds and wild animals
Oops, wandered a bit off-topic here; maybe everyone else already knew about creation order but I wanted to share it now that I was reading it anyway.
Comments made on previous posts have made mention to the GB (and indeed other ones who are in positions of power within the JWOrg) and Narcissism.
Research shows that Narcissists are misogynists; so here on this latest post is yet further evidence of the personality type displayed by those in control of this Organisation!
Good article Bro!The all idea of Governing Body is unscriptural!Check my YouTube chanel at [link to evangelical YouTube channel removed, see posting guidelines]
I finished with this wicked and abusive religion!One day they will be jailed for sure!the Satan’s Harlot!
OMG… I have no words! ” If he is up at 5 am, do you wake up at 4 and make biscuits?” I can’t even…
Also… he thinks homosexuality comes from a man wanting to be a women or vice-versa?
And these are the people leading them all? Wow just wow!
This attitude is deep rooted, Rutherford claimed
women’s movements for equality were Satanic.
( Oh dear, Back to eve and the snake.)
At a convention in Missouri 1941, He said, women
were “A rag, a bone, and a hank of hair. I heard the
same statement parroted in a public talk, given by
one of the supposed heavenly saints.
My wife of 60 years is my mentor, I’d trust her
judgement over any of those Jackasses.
What century are they living in.?
You’re correct Ted. Here is the quote from the September 15, 1941 WT, which quotes from Rutherford’s talk word for word:
“In the Kingdom, the “great multitude” will look to the Lord to guide as to selecting each a mate for himself. Why, then, should a man who has the prospect before him of being of the great multitude now tie himself up to a stack of bones and a hank of hair? (Applause).”
Herd is just carrying on the fine tradition of male chauvinism of the WT.
As a female I don’t feel worthy enough to comment I’m afraid. If I was blessed with a penis however I would say that this man is no more god appointed than my cat!!
You forgot Brother these men are imperfect. May it be a test upon your patience and wait on Jehovah who will take care of it in time when we get the new newer light. Oh seems Jehovah is getting it all settled up with all the exposing of the pedophiles.
See I knew he would come through lol
“When she’s feeling low he lifts her up. He’s so kind. He’s so gentle. He knows how to treat a woman.” I guess the brothers in the congregation are not encouraging, kind, gentle and no nothing about how to treat a woman.
it makes me sad to know of so many ‘sisters’ who are married to men who treat them like a housemaid.
i know of three, that are on anti depressants just to cope with the constant belittling attitudes of their husbands.
who lord it over them…
If I had heard that talk, Id have gotten up and left.
I always thought whoever wrote Romans and Corinthians Galatians ect, was a male chauvinist. Paul could not write or read,[gal 6 vs 11] so his ‘attendant’ could write things any way he could huh? But if he said it, then he was in my book.
btw, i just flipped when i hear the section of the one older hard to understand talk where he seemed to say sister have more ‘free time’
so they can go in service.
yea right, that house cleans itself, those kids feed themselves, the clothes launder themselves, the food magically finds its way to the house, and then cooks itself. the phone calls get made themselves and the checks write themselves out. we have the same workload as our husbands its just different work. if thats the case then why are the men going out in service? they are too busy .
Jesus laid no other burden on us, and im not taking on the ‘ wt societies’ burdens, I got enough of my own.
No doubt Herd still carries around one of those old Brick phones rather than the slick, bright, super smart, elegant interactive Smartphones that the Sisters make use if these days.
Ladies and Gents, this video is classic example of the JW semantic hijinks and fallacies. This discourse heavily relies on the translation of the underlying Hebrew into “mankind”, then distorts it with man(hyphen)kind–a new species. What I suspect is ripped out of context is the dividing that comes in the second account of Creation–day vs. night, land vs. water, man vs. woman. Some have speculated that the initial created being was androgynous, then the dividing into man and woman genders (not kinds, because “kinds” referred to the animal breakdowns (species) if you skip over to the Flood/Deluge story).
In this scenario, the JW theology (by vocal doctrines) seems to imply that women derive no pleasure out of marriage and sex. And, this isn’t only JW theology but most “get back to First Century Christianity” groups hold to the letter that Paul threw down in attributing menial and subservient role to women–was he ever married? Lots of male companions, and he knew some females–from a distance.
Where do I go? Jesus on rising makes His first appearance to women. The Twelve, and some women, made the rounds before Paul was blinded. Some theologians also raise the possibility that the definition of apostle is literally, a delegate, and thus could be expanded from the traditional 12 to include these women and those who founded congregations. Rolling back to the OT/Hebrew covenants, many female prophetesses and adjudicators.
A stream of consciousness because logic is a terrible thing to waste.
The New Normal
Thanks for reminding me EnoughisEnough why I stopped attending KHall. I had enough of the bashing of not just gays, but women, children and anyone not cut of the same bland, oatmeal-colored rags as JW-dom.
It’s tough to swallow [well…] that I was raised in a cult, but when I do a COMPARE to Zion’s ranch, Worldwide Church of — [or what’s left of it], Shepherd’s Rod, and on and on bizarre groups that emerged in 40s, 50s and 60s, JW’s are right there at the tippy top for being on the fringe and outsiders.
Why else do these clamor so eagerly [like this year’s onslaught of jovial activities] to appear “normal”. We’re just folksie-folks with our “approved” potlucks and “approved” Detroit ballroom dancing. Yet, every other week / month, there’s a new article in Watchtower/Awake bashing those “children of Satan” — whether its overstepping females with their jobs and abortion clinics, ho-mo-sexhuals with their flamboyant [known gay men who were more gruff and tough than any GB member, and for certainty some of the butch lesbians] parades and weddings, or those highly educated individuals waving their $50 words in our faces and criticizing the grammar in our magazines! Yeah, sweetie, you all was born in a cult. Just lucky I made it out alive, and with my sanity intact! Lucky? Or, was that the Lord holding you in the palm of his hand?
I can’t wait for the hate-group label on these folks–just being in the Holocaust Museum doesn’t mean the group isn’t hateful, just ask some dissident sent to Siberia by Communists/Socialists. This “brood” is a hate-filled group, and normally, I do make exception for individuals, but silence contributes to the issue continuing without challenge or change in leadership.
Pedophilia and the rape of women are the fruits of its leaders fostering an environment that lessens the humanity of women and children and idolizes male-kind, as though these were infallible and entitled.
I think considering women like Samuel Herd does benefits the Watchtower Society. Men are psychologically misled in a wrong thinking that they are superior to women and women are constantly reminded of that (head covering in spiritual matters, can’t pray in presence of a BAPTIZED brother, can’t touch the Shepherding textbook, …)!
What happens among JWs can be likened with what happens in a community where Female genital mutilation is practiced: MOST MEN WILL FIGHT TO KEEP IT INSTEAD OF WORKING FOR A CHANGE. Astonishingly, few women will fight for their freedom!
NEVER PREACH FREEDOM TO A JW WOMAN, YOU WILL BE LABELLED APOSTATE…
Men in the organisation are brainwashed into thinking their roles are more superior to the female. You have to remember this talk was given at a male dominated time in our history. Today …….. I dont think the GB would risk it. I know it is not in all nations but on the whole, women have mostly been awarded more respect in a once male dominated society. Today we have ‘the new man’ and he helps with kids and chores. I am just glad I am alive now and not then. I think women pretend to be in subjection to their husbands. Just like they pretend other things. ;-)
I remember fourty years ago as a bible study, attending my first district assembly. I wore a lovely, albiet somewhat skimpy summer dress. By the following year I was in a modest dress, below the knee, high cut. I was by now a nodding dog of a wife, with an inane smile on my face, spouting the wonderful virtues of my husband, and saying how I loved being in subjection. How right this was, being as I was an emotional creature and unable to make the right decisions. How often I would say “we sat down and discussed it as a family” when in fact we didnt. At home I was desperatly walking from room to room trying to avoid my husband, who would follow behind me trying to break me down. Telling me I should be in subjection, and why couldn’t I be like other sisters. Well he didn’t break me. I left him.
Folks,
As I posted before Homo Neanderthal had a larger brain case than Homo Sapiens. If we follow Samuel’s reasoning, we should all be in subjection to an extinct species!!!
Some very interesting comments on this topic. Patrice, it looks like you have the recording you wanted, which is great.
The Penthouse Experience, well said!
This is what happens when you take a myth and believe it to be historical fact. Human beings did not get here like that! We are far older than these imbeciles say, and the real story is far more fascinating.
Women and men are equal. We are all human beings, regardless of our gender. We all deserve to be treated with dignity and be able to fulfil our potential.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
not a really strong post.
would i say exactly what they say? no. However, the Bible is clear regarding the woman’s role in the family. If a woman doesnt like that role, then she shouldnt be a christian or simply not get married. plain and simple. no one is forcing her.
furthermore, many intelligent and educated women i know personally understand that the woman’s liberation movement has done much damage to women as a group (of course it has done some good also).
edit:
i saw some more of that playlist. yeah, they are really preaching their own little take on it, arent they.
but i still hold to that the traditional womens role is a beautiful thing. it is especially beautiful when she does it out of love. look at the LDS! beautiful and talented women who are in submission to their husbands, while still being strong and amazing women!
@J Jay
I have got myself a box of popcorn and a diet code. I am sitting by my screen. Can’t wait for responses.
Hi,
Just want to tell you about a thing that happened in a congregation to which I was belonging more than thirty years ago. And you will understand that elders are encouraged like some animals to mark their territory if some animal may step into it.
A young sister who was for the first time on the platform to share a biblical subject with another sister has understood what it means to step into the territory of an animal, when not allowed.
Short after the beginning of her subject, she invited her interlocutor to open her Bible and read a verse. But at the same time she addressed to the congregation asking them to open their Bible so that they can follow the verse that her interlocutor was going to read in a loud voice.
The sister surely was not aware of the fact that only males are allowed to address directly to the full congregation, because she was somehow innocent and not informed.
What happened ? Immediately the brother responsible of the theocratic ministry school interrupted her harshly in front of the whole congregation, reminding her that she was not allowed as a sister to address to the full congregation, even if it was just to invite them to read a biblical verse.
The young and innocent sister was shocked and I remember that it was very painful for her to conclude her biblical attribution.
If the responsible brother would have explained to her in a sweet manner that some things are not customary in a kingdom hall she surely wouldn’t have found it so painful to conclude her biblical attribution.
How do animals mark their territory ? As simple as that : they use to mark their territory by spreading droppings and urine around their home.
All the best !
@jay j. I think if you are married to man who has half a brain, it’s not that hard to let the man be the head of the family and the woman be subjection to the man. It’s when you are married to a moron and you are “smarter” than your husband and if the moron takes his role seriously, that the wife and children HAVE to be subject to him is when you run into problems. Say, you have a husband who insists on working part-time so he can pioneer but his family doesn’t have health insurance, can’t afford to go to a dentist and have to rely on welfare for enough food to eat? There are husbands who are that “spiritual” and insist on their families having to live like that. How can a wife have any respect for a “head” like that? To the congregation, he can seem so spiritual and has his family in subjection, but at home, they all hate him. The family is forced to live like that but behind closed doors, the kids can’t wait to move out when they grow up and the wife can’t wait for the husband to die. It’s so easy to talk about the wife being in subjection if they are married to a man who isn’t stupid and domineering and putting “kingdom interests” ahead of of his wife and family. If you have lived through that situation or even far worse conditions than that, come back and tell us how much you loved your father or husband, okay? That sounds good but there’s a whole lot more to having a happy family than the wife being in subjection when you are married to a stupid man. Herd’s idea of what makes it work is for the wife to pretend to be stupider than the husband so his ego doesn’t get bruised. Sadly, there are many women in the Org that agree with that reasoning. Those women will get old and die just like everyone else in the world has done through history but she will have wasted it on a marriage that made her a fool and did nothing but degraded her intelligence and turned her into a robot with no thinking ability or made her hate every minute of her life with that man.
Hi,
I have forgotten one thing in my previous comment :
Before marking their territory animals have a big advantage on humans : they have no suspenders to take down.
Take care.
Remember, this cult ATTRACTS two types of people; 1) those who are aspiring tyrants and 2) those who have a guilt-ridden need to be lead like a sheep. Anyone else is expelled upon discovery. Now, I’m not saying this about people that were born into this nightmare or dragged into it by a spouse, parent, or family members. If you’re out, good for you! The cult leaders (i.e. GB) have set the tone. First to make women and family subordinate to the husband, then second to make the husband subordinate to the organization. To the leadership, I’m sure, it is easier to control the masses if the family is ‘under control’. This is another part of their method of mind-control and taking possession of THEIR flock (i.e. slaves for the organization).
These GB and tyrannical leaders are a crafty piece of ‘work’ aren’t they?
Consider this:
(Deuteronomy 24:1-4) . . .“If a man marries a woman but she does not please him because he found something indecent about her, he must write out a certificate of divorce for her, hand it to her, and dismiss her from his house. 2 After she leaves his house, she may go and become another man’s wife. 3 If the second man hates her and writes out a certificate of divorce for her, hands it to her, and dismisses her from his house or if the second man who married her should die, 4 her first husband who dismissed her will not be allowed to take her back again as his wife after she has been defiled, for that is something detestable to Jehovah. . .
THEY THINK AND BEHAVE LIKE MEN OF THAT TIME!!
Searcher, I totally agree with your comment!
Although they may not say it in the same manner as Sam H did in his talk, the Org still definitely categorizes women as an inferior class.
A few years ago a rather feisty sister, (who is MD of a company), as a result of having to work late – arrived at the Thursday night meeting straight from work. She was wearing a rather chic and tasteful trouser suit!
Pandemonium ensued when the trouser suit was spotted. Instead of being commended for actually making the effort to be in attendance at the meeting, she received stern counselling from the Elders for the lack of deference and failure to show submission that her inappropriate attire demonstrated!
Strangely enough though, nothing was ever said to the wife of a Bully-Boy Elder whose dresses were always so tight they left absolutely nothing to the imagination.
And probably that Elder’s wife had a lousy figure as well?! Those with good figure are usually the ones properly dressed…. ;-) *sigh* :-P
Sorry to be pedantic, John—but it’s spelt “chauvInists” after the possibly fictional Frenchman Nicolas Chauvin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolas_Chauvin
Keep up the good work!
Pick the cat
No, she shouldn’t be a Christian, she’s too smart to follow a book written by men.
It’s the condescending attitude of men being superior that irks me more than anything. “Men’s brains are bigger”, “women are only here to serve men”, blah blah blah. Let’s all move to the Middle East and put ourselves under Sharia law while we’re at it.
Your paragraph on the microphone with the mop head attached was hilarious !!!! Love your writing!
Although not necessarily related, watching this made me think about a story a brother told when I was still active about a GB member at Bethel. The story he told was that there are very strict dress codes for bethelites and this GB apparently wasnt feeling well one day, and came out of his room in his robe and when a brother kindly suggested he put on some real clothes, since it wasn’t proper for him to be dressed like that in front of everyone, the GB said “Who are you going to tell, if I don’t?” I was in utter shock, because the brother who told me this story that it was funny, while I could only think how cocky and arrogant the GB member was because he was basically saying he can do whatever he wants, when he wants because he’s a GB member and doesn’t have answer to any earthly person. Also that the rules they make for the rank and file JWs don’t apply to them [GB] if they are an inconvenience.
When Jehovah created Eve, he said that she would be a compliment to him….not a slave. It’s utterly disgusting to hear him speak of Women like he did in that talk; I’m at a loss of words right now. Unbelievable.
Whilst I agree with you regarding the misogyny of the leaders and probably 90% of the males within the rank and file, they can hardly be blamed as the entire bible is one long diatribe of misogyny. As they are followers of the “holy bible” one can hardly blame them for this. One of the main reasons I am an atheist is the idea of setting any credence to such drivel as contained in the bible regarding women makes me nauseous.
Well said Cheryl
As I said earlier, this misogyny stems from a MYTH!!!!
We have male and female human beings because we are mammals and mammals reproduce by combining 2 genetic codes into a unique, new one. Those biological differences are not to be used to elevate or denigrate either sex. Both are equally human beings. Neither should our gender affect which career we choose to follow.
Please folks, don’t base your views on sexuality on a myth. Women have been around just as long as men, and neither can exist without the other. We need to respect all humans, regardless of which gender they are.
Samuel Hurd is an ignorant man. He has not bothered to learn about the processes of life and bases his opinion on myth. He is free to do that if he chooses.
Ladies, I send my sincere sympathy for the sexism you faced in your lives. Be assured that not all men view you in this ridiculous way.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Every Religion under the Sun, including the Bible
spout the idea, Of men’s superiority over women.
Society is changing. There’s more opportunities for
women, ( Though still not enough.) When they do
get the chance, In whatever sphere, Science, Medicine,
Politics, etc, They succeed as well as any man.
So why is religion static when society is moving forward.?
They claim they have authority from God, and that God
made men superior. And it’s the natural order that can’t
be changed. (Making God a chauvinist.)
If God had arranged it that way, It would be beyond
dispute, Any man would be manifestly more intelligent
than any woman. And this is obviously not the case.
Where a woman is more capable than the men, It makes
sense that she should take the lead
The purpose of man made religion, Is to keep everybody
In subjection , men and women, ! And the J,W, Org,
exploits it to the limit.,
Would Jesus appoint these chauvinists as his F,A,D,S,?
Where’s the proof that he did,? Are we supposed to take
a man’s word for such a fantastical claim.? Anyone with
even half a brain would say that man is a liar.