In what should surely rank among some of the most grotesque propaganda ever to be churned out by Watchtower’s writing department, Jehovah’s Witnesses are being asked to think of their disfellowshipped family members, not just as being dead, but as having been killed by Jehovah. As such they are not to be mourned.
“What a test of faith it was for Aaron and his family not to mourn their dead relatives!” says the latest November 15th Watchtower magazine on page 14, describing the slaughter of Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu through fire from heaven. “Are you personally proving yourself holy with regard to not associating with family members or others who have been disfellowshipped?”
The bizarre connection with Nadab and Abihu follows on from a similar article in 2011 in which the biblical account was invoked to guilt-trip Witness parents into avoiding “unnecessary association” with any disfellowshipped son or daughter.
“Think of how [Aaron] must have felt when his sons Nadab and Abihu offered illegitimate fire to Jehovah and He struck them dead. Of course, that ended any association those men could have had with their parents… The message is clear. Our love for Jehovah must be stronger than our love for unfaithful family members.” (w11 7/15 p.32)
It should go without saying that in order to invoke the direct slaughter of miscreants by God in justifying the total shunning of any who leave a religion, you first need to provide unequivocal proof that the religion in question is solely endorsed by God – a claim that virtually all religions make.
Watchtower has yet to write anything that comes close to offering tangible evidence of divine backing. It merely asks Witnesses to believe that Jesus made an invisible sojourn to Earth between 1914 and 1919, and used this period to ‘cleanse’ and select an organization he is apparently still ‘cleansing’ to this day – the Watch Tower Society.
The total vacuum of evidence to support Watchtower’s claims of divine direction make any attempted parallels with bible accounts of divine execution and excommunication both absurd and obscene.
If only Watchtower could rediscover some of the logic and reasonableness that led it to conclude in a 1947 Awake! article that the practice of disfellowshipping (or “excommunication”) is an instrument of “ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny” that is “altogether foreign to biblical teachings.”
The 1947 article can be downloaded on these links: Page 1 | Page 2
Instead, Witnesses are bombarded with manipulative dogma (centered around a flawed understanding of 1 Cor. 5:11) aimed at dismantling families for the sake of Watchtower’s interests. Even the sending of emails to disfellowshipped ones is prohibited according to another recent magazine.
“Do not look for excuses to associate with a disfellowshipped family member, for example, through e-mail.” (w13 1/15 p.16 par. 19)
Though it may be easy for Watchtower’s cloistered Governing Body and its army of writers to spew forth this outrageous material, the effects on ordinary people who simply want to leave a religion they have discovered to be false are all too tangible, as this question in our latest 2014 Global Survey shows.
As reassuring as it is that 23% of disfellowshipped/disassociated ones answering the above question say they are NOT shunned by family members, that number is not likely to rise given the steady stream of coercion flowing from Brooklyn.
I personally believe there will come a time when all religious organizations who seek tax exempt or charitable status will be answerable to Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which recognizes an individual’s innate right to “change his religion or belief.”
But as Watchtower presses forward with its efforts to deprive people of this basic right through its immoral shunning policies with an almost sadistic fervor, such a time cannot come soon enough.
Further reading…
- Patheos.com: “Jehovah’s Witness Publication Urges Faithful to Treat Disfellowshipped Loved Ones as if God Killed Them“
- If shunning loved ones is scriptural, why does Watchtower publicly deny the practice?
- “Shun your disfellowshipped loved ones!”: Shocking district convention talk hits YouTube
- JWsurvey articles on shunning
Oh, I forgot to mention. Just like other recent cults that went under fire (i.e. Scientology), don’t be surprised that WT legal hired guns will start attacking websites and web hosts. The leadership is already attacking You Tube. Maybe other will fall, but keep up the good fight!
Here is something the Elders won’t tell you.
According to the Elders rule book (Shepherd the Flock of God), you cannot be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped person as long as you are not having “spiritual association or openly criticizing the disfellowshipping decision”.
Here is what it says in Chapter 10 of the “Shepherd the Flock of God” book:
“If members of the congregation are known to have undue association with disfellowshipped or disassociated relatives who are not in the household, elders should counsel and reason with those members of the congregation from the Scriptures. Review with them information from the “God’s Love” book, pages 207-208; The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, pages 26-30; or the article “Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative Is Disfellowshipped” in the August 2002 Our Kingdom Ministry. If it is clear that a Christian is violating the spirit of the disfellowshipping decree in this regard and does not respond to counsel, it may be that he would not qualify for congregation privileges, which require one to be exemplary. He would not be dealt with judicially unless there is persistent spiritual association or he openly criticizes the disfellowshipping decision.” – (2010 – Shepherd the Flock of God, Chapter 10, Page 116)
Yes its still active and it only needs another 419, if everyone on here signed we could be into 300’s
http://www.change.org/petitions/launch-an-investigation-to-determine-if-jehovah-s-witnesses-have-a-right-to-use-coercion-forms-of-mental-torture-to-force-its-members-not-to-leave
413 now needed
Only 365 to go.
@Tipper
I feel your pain as well. Ive been out since 2001 and it hasn’t been an easy road to travel. You mention a number of things that would let me conclude you were a JW for a long time and thus raised the beloved son you feel so hurt by as one of JW. So.. as I had to do, at least realize we are responsible for teaching them (our children) this is what you should do, with respects to a d/fd person. He’s only doing what you allowed him to be taught as I did my children and for that I accept responsibility. If i’m off base here , my apologies ! But I hope the best for you and now that the cat is out of the bag (with respect to the “Shepherd book”) in that your son if he doesn’t hold a position in the cong doesn’t have to cut you off. I do suppose , however, that Elders rule book might soon be rewritten !
Da’ in reply to your comment – Although I was raised as a JW, I stopped associating when my son was very very young so I would not have him brainwashed like I was. Unfortunately I could not stop his father from indoctrinating him.
We all know that there is incredible pressure to conform within the organization and in the congregation. Like most males in org, my son wishes to have privileges and a good standing in the congregation – he values these things more than his family bonds.
Beating the sheep into fearful submission!! the perpetual lies and deceit is simply ungodly.
@tipper
I too, have a son who wishes to please both his dad (elder) and me, so I completely understand you. I had to deal with a very vindictive ex -. By being loving and understanding , I was able to at least have a working relationship with 3 of my 4 children. They understood what and why I did what I did (left their father who loved the congregation more than me) and I understand what they need to do to stay under the radar.
In George Orwelles book “1984”. The superstate. “Oceana”
Is under the control of an elite “Inner Party” (the G,B,?) that
Persecutes, all individualism, and independent thinking,
which is called “Thought Crime”
One of the departments in this totalitarian state is, “The Ministry
of Love”. It exists for the. Persecution, and Execution, of all
dissenters. (Shunning is an act of love says the G,B,) it’s
in this department that the, “Thought Police” operate, (The
Elders,?).
The supreme head of this state is the benevolent “Big Brother”,
who no one ever sees, and it’s not known if he really exists.
Interesting strategy. Avoid the criticism of outright attack of former members (like calling them mentally diseased) and simply use a graphic example to inspire a similar sentiment.
In my opinion it does demonstrate that the blowback over the “mentally diseased” comment taught them how expensive that kind of rhetoric could be in regard to tax exemption and charitable status.
I do find it comical that being dead is equal to “ending associaton with”. (w11 7/15 p.32) “Of course” it did!
Forget what kind of idiot would write this stuff, what kind of idiot would read this stuff?
BeenMislead, the problem is that even if the rule is there, the actual final decision is done by the elders who may choose to actually ignore that rule. Than how will you go about and tell them they can’t when that rule is written in a book that is supposed to be viewed only by the elders?
It’s totally sick what they are saying but on top of that it’s not even what the scripture is talking about. If you read the whole thing for yourself it specifically says the rest of Israel CAN MOURN them but Aaron can not because he was the high priest and since he has been anointed, can not defile himself by such an action. So his not being allowed to mourn is based on the fact that he can not leave the sanctified place while he is still considered holy, not that he can not feel sad. It’s weird but there’s lots of rules like that in the Old Testament. It was NOT because his feelings would mean he went against God. I’d bet money that the average JW sticking a Bible in your face like some kind of weapon has never read it.
@BeenMislead – The rule book _for elders_ may read that, but just as the Watchtower preaches its group is open and welcoming to all, yet we know the practice is vastly different, it follows that the practice will continue because the Shepherd book is not public to the rank and file, and most of those who need this pointer will never read it from Cedars website or believe it from fellow ‘brothers and sisters’ given the RECENT “new light” in the Watchtower. For many true believer JW’s it remains that if it isn’t written in the Watchtower, I won’t do it; I won’t think it; I won’t preach it. If the Watchtower did write it, I will follow it to the dotted letter and the period at the end of the sentence without questioning and without deviation.
Another interesting thing about the “organization” and structure of the Watchtower enterprise, if something is written, this “new light” covers not only the rank-and-file, but also the Governing Body. If any one member of that committee seeks to side-step what is written, that individual can be subject to “discipline” by their fellow GB club members, even to the point of removal.
This is very disconcerting because the real mystery [by design to avoid human idolatry] becomes “who really is running the Watchtower Asylum?” The Governing Body [key leaders in the corporations no longer need be on the GB] or the corporate department heads? Given no single person to take responsibility for or to account for how they derived what gets written and given unquestioning obeisance, who are JW’s really worshipping? The God of Heaven, the God of Knowledge (Gnosis) or the God of Anonymity [an Unknown and Unknowable God as Apostle Paul is attributed to state]? This is the odd little “trinity” of the Watchtower.
@Ted – just to update your material, try this film released Dec 6, 2002. Note the “tetragrammaton” usage… also, “Fahrenheit 451” is another good eye-opener.
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=raleKODYeg0&w=560&h=315%5D
Once again the Watchtower fail to understand the teachings of Christ.
At Matthew 5:43 to 48 it clearly shows the Christian way of thinking and attitude. To quote Christ…”you heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; that YOU may prove yourselves sons of YOUR Father who is in heaven, since he makes his sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous people and unrighteous. For if you love those loving YOU, what reward do you have? Are not the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if YOU greet YOUR brothers only, what extraordinary thing are YOU doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as YOUR heavenly Father is perfect.”
The Watchtower has a history of going beyond what is written. If they view those who leave the Watchtower as enemies then it’s time they followed Christ and not their own ideas. Perhaps they will mature in time to these simple instructions of Christ. All Watchtower members need to read and meditate over Christs words at Matthew 5: 43 to 48 quoted above from their Bible. And ask why the Governing Body is not following these instructions of Christ?
Families need to be informed of Christ’s instructions. His word has greater power in their lives and should be followed. Christ is clearly teaching love not hate.
@JBob,
Thank’s for the link and other info.
Guess we’re the ones who have stopped taking the
Prozium, Also gives a view of what life would be like
in a new system, controlled by the Tetragrammaton
Council based in New York.
My twin, who has remained a JW all her life (58 years old) has urged me to get reinstated. Over the years we’ve spoken on the phone and e-mailed. Every few years I get an e-mail telling me that her conscience will no longer allow her to associate with me. So, fine. The communication stops. Then a few years go by and she calls me out of the blue or sends an e-mail. The last such e-mail was after the 2013 District Convention dubbing us ex-JWs as being mentally diseased. Then she moved closer to me and started the e-mails and text messages again. Finally, she came right out and asked me to get reinstated by “faking it”. She wanted me to attend the meetings and approach the elders and pretend I was repentant and “just tell them what they want to hear” she said. She said to go to a Kingdom Hall that was NOT close to my home, don’t give them my address and then, when I got reinstated, she said I could just walk away and never have to go to another meeting or see those elders again. This is from a staunch JW who goes door to door on a regular basis and believes she’s going to live forever after Armageddon comes. I was a little shocked that she was encouraging me to deceive the elders. Her motive was simply this: she wanted to be able to associate with me without getting herself in trouble with the elders. I told her I didn’t want to live a lie and that I didn’t feel right being deceitful like that. I told her that if I thought for even one moment that it was the “Truth”, that I would get myself reinstated. Funny thing – I’ve actually had to block her from calling and texting me. Unbelievable that someone could profess to be such a genuine JW and yet try to encourage me to “trick” the elders into reinstating me. It is a cult, it is dangerous and it is full of deception.
Sometimes I feel like I’m going to burst because I’ve kept so much of what happened while I was brainwashed in that cult, buried inside of me. 30 years it took me to escape and it was hard. For years I thought I was going to be destroyed at Armageddon within the year or two… Lost every friend I had and all of my family. I am so genuinely grateful for this venue to post my thoughts and experiences. I’m also grateful to be able to read the experiences and comments of my fellow friends.
I have several close family members who defend any and all rules and regulations issued by the watchtower and I find it impossible to have a logical and intelligent conversation with them with respect to the “organization”. I rarely bring up the subject of religion now and it is apparent to me that, in their minds, whatever the watchtower prints is gospel. In researching cults, I have discovered that, the cult provides individuals who are members, with something more than any other relationship can offer. This religion gives them value for what they do and not for who they are and the more they do for the organization, the more they are loved by the organization and the more they are valued. What they do not realize is that they have sacrificed everything, including people who truly love them for who they are to become slaves to a corporation who doesn’t know them who doesn’t care about them and who would throw them away if they ever questioned anything printed in the watchtower. Unfortunately they lose their individuality and become clones of all of the other rank and file witnesses. Until they somehow “wake up” and realize that they are only as good as their current monthly service report, they will never ever listen to anything that they feel is negative with regards to the organization. Therefore in my mind it is pointless to try and reason with them because they value the cult more than me. I still love my family and I love them for who they are, but I know that at this point in their lives, they would chose the religion and all of their conditional friendships, over their relationship with me. Makes me sad.
Instead of mining the scriptures for positive ways to show love and not judge, Watchtower writers find the most disconnected and savage stories to support their nasty agenda. One of the reasons I left was I couldn’t read the trash anymore. I guess it hasn’t occurred to anyone at headquarters to examine the reasons that the New Testament and Talmud supercede the Old Testament in modern times.
Lynn,
I have deep and sincere sympathy for your situation. It is never easy getting out and away from the WTBTS. We have all had a very hard time of it and it naturally leads to us feeling angry and abused.
I know that you feel pity for your sister, because you know what being inside this cult is like. Ex Witnesses like us know what it was like to be controlled so monstrously that we were willing to shun other human beings.
I hope that your sister and you regain a proper, natural, loving relationship in time.
I would humbly beseech you to show mercy to your sister. Be the better person and forgive her for asking you to be dishonest. She is in thrall to a cult that is inherently dishonest. I am not saying that your sister did not do wrong, she did. But she is, as we once were, a member of a high control cult. She has tried to keep in touch, which shows that her natural love for you is still in her heart, trying to express itself.
Please feel free to ignore this entreaty. I do not know you or your situation and I am in no way trying to say that you are wrong. You are not wrong to feel the way that you feel. Your decision is not wrong either.
I’m not a Christian any more, but I still retain a lot of respect for Jesus’ teaching. He asked us to be loving and generous and forgiving. These things are not easy, especially when we have been wronged as you and I have. No, these things are incredibly hard, but they do bring peace and hope, and they are qualities that we all need more of.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Excelsior:
Thank you for taking the time to write. Your words are thought provoking and kind. I think that the hardest thing for me to get over is the fact that when my mom lay dying in hospital, I lived just four blocks away from the hospital and my sister didn’t even let me know that my mom was dying. Mom passed away and I wasn’t even informed of a memorial service for her. She did the same thing when my dad died. My mom had promised me one of her many, many pieces of extremely expensive jewelry. I asked my sister if I could please have the one ring mom promised me. She just said “no – mom wanted me to have that”. I hated her for awhile. Really hated her, but came to forgive her and sure enough – got another one of those “my conscience won’t allow me to associate with you” calls again. It took me seven years to get the ring back. Seven years. I have forgiven her and I don’t hate her anymore. I simply don’t feel anything anymore for her. It’s kind of like a puppy getting kicked in the head over and over again, finally he just stops responding. That ‘s how I feel. I feel numb toward her and it’s actually quite freeing. I also don’t want to allow myself to built a relationship with her again just to be told again that she can’t talk to me anymore. It hurts too much. I’d rather just not feel anything anymore. I’m sure you understand. She took away my opportunity to see my mom in the hospital on her deathbed. I can never fill that void. I do, sincerely thank you for taking the time to write to me and for your kind words.
Lynne
I truly empathise with you. I completely understand what you are going through, and like you I have found great comfort from this site.
After I left the Org, I was totally shunned by my family. It was terrible, but I knew it was the price I had to pay to be free of living under the miserable control of this Cult; although I tried to make it known that it was not them (the family) that I wanted to break free of.
Years later I began to have off and on contact with my family, but every time contact was established, it made me vulnerable once more to let them hurt me all over again.
Ironically they even told me that they had never stopped having contact with me – and then in the next sentence started histrionically weeping and wailing over “The Situation!”
During those times I never knew exactly where I stood – one minute they were all over me and the next minute they were making pathetically feeble excuses (blatant lies) as to why they couldn’t see or speak to me.
The last few times, I decided that I could take no more and would concentrate on getting on with my own life and let them get on with theirs.
Since then, I have come to realise that when they need something from me, they feel free to come back into my life, (bringing with them their own Watchtower derived stipulations), and then when it suits they retreat again and close the door again in my face.
These actions only confirm to me the lack of unconditional love that I have always so abhorred this Organisation for.
However, although I feel that it is essential to keep myself protected against further emotional damage, – just as you have that bond with your sister, so do I with some of my family members and thus painful as it is, I am still there when the call comes that they need me.
At least by our actions, we know that our love for our family members is unconditional.
In reply to: “These actions only confirm to me the lack of unconditional love…”
Sorry, but this is a *big* understatement. To an outsider like me, the actions of your family are downright evil. Shunning you is showing conditional love. Associating with you only when they need something is simply evil. I think it would only be fair to ask them “Why do you do this? Reestablish contact only when in need, then disappear again?” Just honest, down-to-earth, friendly questions. You deserve an honest answer to that; any human would deserve that, especially you as being their family.
Thank you for sharing. I wish you the best. Take care!
Rob said…I have several close family members who defend any and all rules and regulations issued by the watchtower and I find it impossible to have a logical and intelligent conversation with them with respect to the “organization”. I rarely bring up the subject of religion now and it is apparent to me that, in their minds, whatever the watchtower prints is gospel. In researching cults, I have discovered that, the cult provides individuals who are members, with something more than any other relationship can offer. This religion gives them value for what they do and not for who they are and the more they do for the organization, the more they are loved by the organization and the more they are valued. What they do not realize is that they have sacrificed everything, including people who truly love them for who they are to become slaves to a corporation who doesn’t know them who doesn’t care about them and who would throw them away if they ever questioned anything printed in the watchtower. Unfortunately they lose their individuality and become clones of all of the other rank and file witnesses. Until they somehow “wake up” and realize that they are only as good as their current monthly service report, they will never ever listen to anything that they feel is negative with regards to the organization. Therefore in my mind it is pointless to try and reason with them because they value the cult more than me. I still love my family and I love them for who they are, but I know that at this point in their lives, they would chose the religion and all of their conditional friendships, over their relationship with me. Makes me sad.
_________________
You nailed it, this is exactly how I was myself before waking up, and those that have woken up can testify that when under the mind control of the cult we ourselves although knowing something was wrong, tallied along like with doubts but still under the WT spell.
I agree it is pointless to debate with JW that are still under the WT mind altering spell, it just pushes them further away, one can only hope and pray that one day like us they will start to see the reality, not the fairy tail.
I feel the only way for many to wake up is not attend meetings for a few months, then the spell starts to waver.
Pray and reliance on Gods holy spirit along with reading the bible without any WT influence I feel is the only way and of course internet research much research into the WT history and all current abominations that the GB do there best to hide from the flock.
Lynn,
I think that your response to your sister’s machinations is spot on. I think I would do exactly as you have done.
Thank you for responding so kindly to my comments.
We are all here to offer support and a listening ear and I look forward to reading more comments from you in the future.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Lynn, Rob and Rosie,
Your comments have revealed to me a glimpse of what being shunned by your loved ones is truly like. I can only applaud your strength of character and sympathise with your pain.
It confirms for me that I have done the right thing in participating in my small way with the ex JW community’s attempt to bring the WTBTS to account.
I want you all to know that I genuinely feel sorrow for your pain and loss.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
During the 1990’s I started getting the feeling while listening to news about radical Islam and Sharia law that the stories we were reading in the Bible about Joshua and the Israelites were eerily similar to the nightly news. It was a factor in my exit from JW’s.
I wonder if the news about ISSIL’s killings of ‘apostates’ via beheadings, rape, torture, etc. is penetrating the brains of JW’s today that this is an example of the genocidal nature of their patriarchal tribal god and his name people back in bible days? I’m hoping that just hearing the word ‘apostate’ in the context of the nightly news starts at least some JW’s on the road out. The extremes of ISSIL are barbaric. Using bible examples of similar treatment to justify shunning is no less barbaric.
Excelsior and Gareth
Thank you for your support and kind words, they are appreciated and mean a lot.
Reading the comments and posts on this site reveals the terrible pain and emotional damage Watchtower has inflicted upon so many people’s lives. I am grateful that Cedars has given us the chance to have our voices heard.
As a wise friend said recently – my family (and many other active JWs) are not bad people, they are just misled. Sadly the poisonous bilge spewing forth from the Watchtower machine, not only destabilizes the minds of it’s members, but also desensitizes them too.
I have no doubt that more toxicity will be preached at the conventions this weekend, but my thoughts are with Cedars as he attends the Press Conference today, and I hope that soon Watchtower will be exposed for the False Prophet that it is.
Only 236 signatures left. Lets get this down to 0 around the same time as the related “Undue influence Conference”
http://www.change.org/p/launch-an-investigation-to-determine-if-jehovah-s-witnesses-have-a-right-to-use-coercion-forms-of-mental-torture-to-force-its-members-not-to-leave
I know this is off topic, but I just have to share it!!
There are three different JWs living in my 48 unit apartment, one of them is even my next door neighbor. (I know, what are the odds??)
They all ignore me, never speak, and pretend I don’t exist whenever our paths cross, even though I always smile and say hello. This has been going on for almost four years.
Last night, I invited all the tenants to a meeting to talk about security in the building, as we are having escalating problems. The apartments are for 55 and older and a lot of them are frail and elderly. I told the group that since we all lived there, it was our home and that we needed to look out for each other, and that I was concerned about them and their safety and that I loved them. We talked about things we could do to address the situation ourselves as well as plans to contact the owners of the building as the manager is ignoring our situation. All three of the sisters were there and one of them actively participated in the discussion.
Today I was walking down the hallway and that sister was coming out of her apartment. She waited on me and had a big smile on her face. She said to me something like “This is different, you know? (I guess she meant that since it was business she could talk to me) I just wanted you to know that the meeting last night was beautiful”. Then she hugged me very tightly and held my hands and smiled at me…from her heart.
Apparently something I said to the group last night touched her heart. I was almost in tears and so was she. I saw her a couple more times and every time she looked me in the eye and smiled warmly at me and kept saying “hello” and commenting about the heat index….over 100 today.
It will be interesting to see how she treats me in front of the other two sisters. I am just so happy…for her and for me. We never know how what we say or do can affect others. I pray that this will be the beginning of her eyes being opened.
I know all of this doesn’t sound like much, but it was a huge step for her to break ranks and actually talk to me and treat me like a human being.
Imacountrygirl, that is a huge step indeed!!
So much gossip about ones that leave goes on among others, and because you live in the same building, probably been a lot of ongoing talk, she saw something in you that made her think, and because of your loving personality touched her, what a great experience, and the door is opening hopefully, all the best, thanks for sharing.
Folks,
I’ve been listening to “What’s Going On”, Marvin Gaye’s beautiful album from 1971.
I listen to it when I need to think about things from a moral perspective. It helps me a lot.
The opening track has some fine words that I think apply to our situation.
Father, Father we don’t need to escalate
War is not the answer
For only Love can conquer Hate
These words apply to Imacountrygirl’s experience. She showed love for her literal neighbours, and that love has conquered the hate that the sister had been taught to feel.
I’d recommend this album to you all. It’s a beautiful, soulful, funky thirty five minutes of an artist tackling his Christian faith in the face of war, poverty, drug addiction and prejudice. The joy shines through in this record, through all the pain and sadness.
I am getting off topic, so to conclude,
The retention of unconditional love for our estranged family and friends is the way to conquer their cult inspired hatred and fear.
I am hopeful that these increasingly hysterical rants against the apostates will stir the rank and file to question whether it is ever loving to shun.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Thank you for your support and kind words. I faded very slowly from the religion and did so because I had so many doubts about the ever changing doctrine and “new light”. I hated the idolizing of the GB and I saw so many young people thrown away and kicked out of the herd, by elders who did not understand why these young people were acting out and didn’t take the time to find out. They simply had to enforce the archaic rules of Brooklyn.
My family now treat me like a “worldly person” even though I have not changed at all, and we do have some contact, but no more dinners, no more hanging out, just the odd phone call. When we do see each other in person on rare occasions, we generally talk about the weather and generic topics.
I still love them and have always helped them in the past and would help them in the future, in a heartbeat, but they are so ingrained in their loyalty to this corporation and they obviously feel that in order to get me to come back, they have to limit their association with me.
I realize that in my lifetime I may never have a relationship with them again, but I do have childhood memories of what used to be an amazing family.
Thank you watchtower for giving my family, a new family that is full of conditional love, everchanging pharisaical rules and ice cold hearts. You are definitely a force to be reckoned with.
I am curious as to those who have been disfellowshipped. Would you allow this process to occur for any reason of the types stated within Galatians or you see the process as not having any place within a Christian congregation?
I am curious, JW4ever, as to why you fail to address any questions put to you.
Why, for example, do you consider a return to ‘Russellism’ a good thing?
What do you like best? the 1914 Armageddon? The Rapture? The Pyramidology? The use of the Crucifix? The Christmas celebrations? The means by which black guys can turn white?
Answers please.
JW-4EVER!!!. The two instances of disfellowshipping mention in the Bible. Let’s see the one was a man sleeping with his Mother in law. This situation was so brazen it had gotten to Paul who was not even in the area. Something Paul says was not even practice among the nations The other was the apostasy were two people were preaching the Christ had not be resurrected. You also know and I know for a fact people have been dis-fellowship at the mouth of two witnesses wrongly. Finally if a person comes to a group of men to confess their wrong, something they could have kept hidden to me is a person showing in act of repentance. Any body of elders today would have dis-fellowshipped King David without a doubt(committed Fornication, tried to cover it up by having the man come home and have relationship with his wife, when this did not happen, he had the man killed. Also keep in mind sometime had to pass as the woman found out she was pregnant and this did not happen over night. So David hid the sin for a while) But yet God saw his heart and while he did suffer consequences he was repentant. Finally can you say the elders can truly tell when some one is repentant?
I do not believe that there is any place where shunning should take place. Jesus did not shun people who were sinners nor did He condemn people for their actions. Instead he took pity upon them and used his perfect example to show people how they were to treat their fellowman. Jesus abhorred the pharisaical rules.
I feel that without knowing what a person is going through in their own life, and not knowing what the circumstances are as to why an individual acted in a certain way or why this person did something that was not in line with Bible standards, it is not up to me to decide that this person is not worthy of the basic human right of being acknowledged and to be treated with decency.
In my view, shunning is inhumane and until such time as I receive the power to read someone’s heart, I will not adhere to such demeaning behavior.
JW-4Ever!!! I agree with Rob. I think if a person commits adultery, it should be up to the couple to decide if they want a divorce etc. It was the Society who made rules such as disfellowshipping a person if they smoke. They make rules and then don’t enforce them anyway if a person can convince the committee that they are repentant. Why embarrass a person publicly for something they say they won’t do again? What is the purpose, only to intimidate people into following their man-made rules? If you have somebody who is criminal, why not let the people in the congregation take that person to court? It’s the Society that made the rule that you can’t take a fellow Witness to court so that problems have to be handled within the congregation so as not embarrass the congregation.
My question to you is: Who gave the elders the authority to disfellowship people anyway in the name of God? If God gave the Watchtower authority from God, when did he do it? Did he do it in 1919? How can you prove God gave the Watchtower authority to rule over us and make those decisions in the name of God. What was the Watchtower’s food in due season in 1919? Is it the same food as we have today or has it changed? It’s important to answer that question because supposedly, according to the Society, God chose the Watchtower in 1919 as his one and only organization to preach the “truth” to all mankind before all mankind are all destroyed if they don’t convert to be a Jehovah’s Witness.
The problem is that if Jesus chose an organization that taught that Jesus died on a cross and that Christmas and birthdays was fine and Jesus was to be worshipped but Rutherford changed it all around, so the way I look at it, the Watchtower that we have today has apostated away from what Jesus chose so it’s impossible to be God’s true organization so what authority do the elders have to disfellowship anybody anyway?
anomymous, a well reasoned argument, dear lady.
JW4EVER,
It is of no importance to me what any scripture says. I know that to shun another human being is psychologically harmful and so I believe that it is wrong. My opinion is based upon science.
Now, you claim to be a Christian, so let’s look at shunning from a Christian viewpoint.
Firstly and most importantly, we would want to look at the Bible and particularly we would want to look at the words of the Saviour, Jesus Christ.
But that’s it, JW4EVER, there is no example of the Saviour shunning anyone at all. Not one. Indeed, the Pharasees criticised Jesus for dining with sinners!
The explanation for the verses in Galatians has been expertly dealt with by Scrubmaster.
I enjoy our discussions, because they are undertaken with civility and I believe dialogue is vital to understanding.
I think that we have given you some interesting things to contemplate. I hope that we can convince you to join our cause and work with us to purge the WTBTS of unChristian acts such as shunning and child abuse cover ups and the appalling treatment of women.
Jesus would want us to show compassion to all, charity to all, and love to all. These acts, these incredibly hard acts, are the true way to honour Christ.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Excelsior, very well said.
I believe that shunning has to do with control.
Maybe someday more witnesses will realize the devastating psychological effects that shunning has on an individual, and will truly meditate upon the perfect example set by Jesus in dealing with others.
I have not been disfellowshipped, but stopped attending meetings and putting in a field service report over a year ago. After 30 years of service I have been very saddened by the lack of care by the majority of JWs I knew. After one or two letters and telephone calls by concerned witnesses the communication stopped and now no-one tries to contact me. I thankfully have no family in the organisation, something I now consider a blessing!
I realise that the practice of shunning by family members must be heart rending and so very cruel to those affected by it and using emotional blackmail to get re-instated is not the way of the Christ.
Shunning; A complete negative, benefits no one, neither
the shunned, nor the shunner. A young woman I have known
since she was a child, has been cut off from her family,
her only crime, she no longer believes the W,T, teaches the
truth.
Will being denied family contact reverse her thinking. and if
she returned to the congregation, claiming repentance, just
so she could have her family back, this would be a sham, a
lie, like a confession extracted under. torture.
Her family are good people, the mother is a 50 year plus,J,W.
so is well inculcated in obedience to the Org, the situation then
is at stalemate. Her mother expressed her sorrow over the
situation, in a conversation with my wife. So who is benefitting
it’s just a dark shadow over the whole family.
JW4ever,
It’s your undeniable right to take the bible as the ultimate
guide for life. But for me, any book that starts off with the
story of a talking snake, belongs on the bookshelf next to
“Jack and the Bean Stalk.
Do you give any credence to the story that Mahomet, rode
on a flying horse to meet Abraham, or that he was taken up
to heaven, as we are told Jesus was. Well billions of people
believe that stuff and are determined to keep fighting till we
all believe it.
Even with my puny human reasoning I eventually sorted out
the difference between fable and reality, These so called
holy books are full of silly tales and make God look like an
idiot. (A man thrown overboard then picked up by a fish and
taken to his destination, and dropped off on dry land.)
The true creators wisdom, power, and love is evident in the
the universe around us, we need nothing more to guide us.
The Sun is made to shine on the righteous, and unrighteous,
this teaches us that all races have an equal right to a place
on this earth, and to be tolerant to each other’s faults.
The arrangements in place on this life support system that we
Live on, have kept every generation supplied with the
necessities of life, from this we learn, generosity, and love.
Writing of miracles to flaunt the power of a particular God
is a feature of all the holy books, but as already stated,
is not needed, and does the Creator an injustice.
Best Wishes,
I believe we have reaad the last from JW4ever. I doubt that even that sentence will provike a comeback.
There have been dozens of believing JWs on this and other ex JW site. They all give up after awhile. Defending something as manifestly cruel and ridiculous as JW dom, save with some depressed ill informed innocent, once every 40 years on the doorstep (or latterly at the mag. stall) is an imposible task.
Hopefully, JW4ever, although, probably, sheltering in the Kingdom Hall, desperately trying to kid himself that JW TRUTH or even Russell TRUTH (turning black men white, pyramidology, the rapture, no problem with blood transfusions, flaunting the cruifix, celebrating Christmas, a 1914 Armageddon) is now beginning to think.
Once you start thinking, remaining a JW is impossible.