Rochelle Sevier never expected the treatment she received from her local congregation merely for asking the 'wrong' questions
Rochelle Sevier never expected the treatment she received from her local congregation merely for asking the ‘wrong’ questions

If you happen to be studying the bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses, you would be forgiven for assuming that your opinion counts for something, that you are free to scrutinize everything you are taught, and that no questions are considered off-limits.

This was exactly what Rochelle Sevier understood to be the case when she agreed to study the bible with a Witness lady from her local congregation in Salem, Massachusetts – home of the infamous witch trials of the late 17th Century.

Rochelle wasn’t a total stranger to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Born Jewish, her mother had started studying with the Witnesses when she was only five. “My mother would take my sister and I along with her to the meetings. I even attended an International Convention as a child,” she recalls.

But Rochelle lost interest and stopped attending meetings by the time she entered her teens. She credits her mother for not forcing the religion on her when she could see it wasn’t for her. This allowed her to explore her spirituality, including her Jewish roots.

“As an adult, I begin searching for some meaning to life. I attended weekly Torah studies, along with other Jewish co-workers, taught by an Orthodox Rabbi. After several years I went to several Jewish temples to embrace my heritage. Unfortunately, I did not feel fulfilled after attending these temples.”

Rochelle’s spiritual journey brought her back to the Witnesses in 2011. By this point her father, who had previously resisted involvement with the religion, had been studying for a few years. She decided to attend her first meeting as an adult and was soon overwhelmed by the affection and interest she received.

Rochelle agreed to a bible study with the wife of the Coordinator of the body of elders. Together they studied the book What Does the Bible Really Teach?

Jehovah's Witness conduct studies with interested ones using the "Bible Teach" book
Jehovah’s Witness conduct studies with interested ones using the “Bible Teach” book

“Due to my zeal, I was having two bible studies each week, along with attending meeting, assemblies, and conventions,” she explains. “Along the way I would meet other sisters in the congregation who would sit in on my studies. I became the ‘ideal bible student’ due to my inquisitive nature and my knowledge of the material being studied.”

Despite making progress, Rochelle’s “inquisitive nature” gradually surfaced, and she made occasional forays online to see what objective information she could find on the Witnesses.

This made her feel guilty to begin with, but she took her studies seriously and wanted to know if this was really ‘the truth’. “Every now and again I would come across a story that would make me think, particularly Barbara Anderson’s life story. I would put this information in the back of my mind.”

Questions lead to a scolding

Despite her early willingness to bury her doubts, by around the time of January 2014 Rochelle was resolved to do more digging, and go wherever the evidence took her no matter how uncomfortable.

Watchtower's nine-year secret affiliation with the United Nations highlights the organization's hypocrisy
Watchtower’s nine-year secret affiliation with the United Nations highlights the organization’s hypocrisy

“I came across a plethora of information that challenged the image the Watchtower was portraying. The first story I came across was how the Watchtower became an NGO member of the United Nations, the ‘wild beast’. Then I read the stories about how Watchtower was protecting pedophiles and allowing pedophiles to roam freely because of the two-witness rule.”

Disturbed by the information she was uncovering, Rochelle decided to do what any normal student of Jehovah’s Witnesses would do… she asked her teacher about it. But this didn’t turn out quite how she expected.

“My teacher would not address my questions. Her reaction was one of anger and disdain. She treated me like I had been caught with my hand in the cookie jar.”

But rather than convince her she had done something wrong, her teacher’s reaction only made Rochelle more resolved to uncover the real truth. With her mentor stubbornly refusing to give her the answers she craved, she returned to the internet and continued to be appalled by what she was uncovering.

Ending the study

It was around this time that Rochelle’s father was preparing for his baptism, and she couldn’t help but share her discoveries with her parents in the hopes of averting what she now realized was a terrible decision.

“I was hoping that I could wake them up and stop my father’s baptism, especially after I learned that they changed the baptism questions. I realized my father wasn’t getting baptized in the name of Jesus, the holy spirit, and God, but in the name of an organization.”

To her dismay, the baptism went ahead anyway. Rochelle decided not to attend, but her father later told her that he had approached one of the local elders during the event about her issues, asking if he could arrange to meet with her. “The elder said he needed to speak with the other elders first and he would get back to my father. The following day he told my father he couldn’t speak to me but didn’t give a reason why.”

Amid such indifference to her genuine concerns, Rochelle terminated her bible study. She also stopped attending meetings. But it wasn’t long before her former mentor began trying to make inroads again.

“Over the course of time, my teacher would text me or send cards telling me she was thinking of me. I initially did not know if or how I should respond to her because I was angry and hurt at the way she had brushed off my questions. I finally told her how I felt, and she said she never meant to hurt me but had to protect her relationship with Jehovah, and this was the reason why she could not address my questions.”

The forbidden text message

More time passed until only recently, when Rochelle learned about Watchtower’s moves to make congregations commit to pledging a monthly donation amount. Appalled at this development, Rochelle felt compelled to send her friend a text message, which read as follows…

“First I want to say I have great love for you and the others in the congregation. I truly care about them. What I am about to say to you is out of love from my heart. I heard about the new donation arrangement that Watchtower has and think it is not right that they are now asking the flock to commit to a set monthly donation. Watchtower is no better than any other religion now. Rutherford was right when he said religion is a snare and a racket. I hope this wakes people up and they realize that they are being fleeced. Btw the elders need to stop lying to the [flock]. The donation letter was four pages long but the elders were instructed to only read the first page. I have a copy of the whole letter because an elder leaked it out.”

Rochelle could not have anticipated what would ensue from sending this message.

Days later, Rochelle’s instinct told her to phone in to her local meeting and listen to the program. Her ears pricked when it was hinted that there would be a special talk in the service meeting that the congregation had to listen to. Once this talk began, Rochelle soon realized that it was about her. She was being singled out and accused of apostasy, even though she wasn’t baptized as a Witness!

A recording of the talk is available below…

Highlights from a 21st Century ‘Salem Witch Trial’

“Some that study God’s word… have fallen prey to apostasy, so we want the congregation to be aware of that.”

The speaker’s introduction is slightly confusing, suggesting that he might be referring to several individuals rather than one.

“Some friends who are not of our sort have been contacting at times, and they contact some of the friends with information that’s negative regarding the Governing Body, even accusing the local body of elders of lying to the congregation.”

Given Rochelle’s text message only days earlier, it is by this point obvious that this talk is about her – even though the speaker curiously insists on referring to her as “some friends.”

The speaker, who happens to be the Secretary of the Salem congregation, goes on to paint Rochelle as someone who has set out to gather contact details for sinister motives.

“But sometimes some that have associated with us for a while, and we get to know them a little bit… get cellphone numbers and email addresses. Someone calls you on the phone, you have their number. You email someone ‘Oh I’ll email you this’ and bang, you have their email address. So we want you to be careful if, and that’s ‘if’, you were to be contacted with any information that’s apostate… and to avoid that.”

The speaker ignores the fact that it is perfectly normal for Witnesses to communicate with their bible students by text message.

Those guilty of “apostate thinking” are then ridiculed as subversive and questioning of “Jehovah’s channel of dispensing the truth” – prone to the evil of “debating.”

“We don’t debate the truth, certainly not with apostates!”

In making this remark (indeed, throughout his talk) the speaker forgets that Rochelle is only an unbaptized bible student and therefore incapable of meeting the definition of an “apostate.”

As this site has already discussed, “apostasy” refers to the act of leaving one’s religion, and you cannot leave a religion if you haven’t joined it in the first place. Rochelle wasn’t a Jehovah’s Witness. She hadn’t even started preaching yet. Her only crime was to ask the wrong questions, but the speaker apparently fails to see it quite that way.

“And, when you think about it friends, it’s a lot different from answering a question, someone who’s honest-hearted and looking for the truth, yearning for answers. That’s different. But we should never engage in conversation with someone with apostate thinking. And that’s either, y’know, in person, text messaging, emailing, any other types of sites going back and forth thinking that we have to help this individual. That’s not their design. Their goal is not to learn the truth, their goal is to subvert our faith. That’s their goal. So we don’t want to mistakenly think that we’re there to help someone. It doesn’t happen. They can’t be helped. We want to safeguard ourselves.”

The speaker thus rushes to question Rochelle’s motives. In his mind, she could not have been honest-hearted and yearning for truth. If she was asking about the UN affiliation or the two-witness rule she HAD to be focused on subverting her teacher’s faith, even though she was only going through the Bible Teach book.

“At times we may wonder ‘How can someone who’s studying the bible with us, even attending some of the meetings, how can they succumb to apostate thinking? Now, we have to remember such ones really never allowed themselves to become grounded, or as the scriptures say ‘stable in the faith’. They never really developed a relationship with Jehovah God, love for his word. Most of the time it’s very poor study habits, probably not even preparing for their studies… coming to meetings hit or miss, never getting that relationship with Jehovah God. And so what ends up happening is they open themselves up to the devil, and problems such that then begin to rise.”

The speaker’s scathing characterization of Rochelle’s study habits conflicts with her own account of being a student who studied twice weekly and regularly attended meetings, but it is all too convenient for the speaker to dismiss her so-called “apostasy” by blaming it on her being a poor student.

In the minds of some Witnesses, Jehovah and the Watch Tower Society are barely distinguishable
In the minds of some Witnesses, Jehovah and the Watch Tower Society are barely distinguishable

Of further curiosity is the speaker’s rather naive and blinkered description of the studying process itself. In his view, students simply cannot be indoctrinated and brought under undue influence through one-sided Watchtower propaganda. Rather, through information they become “grounded” and more “stable in the faith.”

The speaker also makes the common mistake among Watchtower apologists of equating Jehovah God with the Watch Tower Society, so that “Jehovah” and the “organization” are referred to interchangeably.

If Rochelle doesn’t embrace the history and policies of Watchtower, then by default she is deemed to be spurning a “relationship with Jehovah God.” If she doesn’t accept every word her mentor is teaching her without question, then she must be opening herself up to the devil.

Indeed, the speaker admits that his talk is based extensively on the notorious “Human Apostates” talk of the 2013 district convention – itself a tour de force in name-calling and ad hominem. But he gives his own twist on Watchtower’s “table of demons” rant by likening Rochelle’s antics to that of a wife on a TV crime series who poisoned several husbands by mixing anti-freeze with gatorade.

That a mature adult could stoop to such wild exaggerations can be explained only by the fact that he is both a recipient and dispenser, not of poisoned gatorade as such, but of Watchtower’s extremely potent koolaid. Reason and logic go out the window when there is an enemy or questioner of “Jehovah’s organization” to be vanquished.

An unnecessary warning

The speaker finally concludes by reading Psalm 26:4, and using this verse to remind his congregation not to associate with apostates. Rochelle, who is still not technically a Witness, is thus effectively “marked” – a lesser form of shunning used by elders whenever Witnesses show “a flagrant disregard for theocratic order though not practicing a grave sin that would result in judicial action” (according to page 124 of the elders’ 2010 “Shepherd Book” manual).

Rochelle says that, fortunately, so few know about her text message that many in the Salem congregation will be oblivious to the fact that the talk was directed at her. Her own mother refuses to accept that she was the object of the speaker’s diatribe.

If the talk was indeed a marking (or “warning”) talk, this only underlines how unnecessary and overly-reactionary it was. As the Shepherd Book itself says under the section on marking: “If the disorderly conduct is generally unknown to others and poses no threat to their spiritual well-being, usually it is best to handle things through admonition and counsel. The elders should not be hasty in giving a warning talk.”

In Rochelle’s case, no “admonition” was offered. No effort was made to help her address her questions, even after prompting from her father. The moment she showed she knew too much, her elders went straight into panic mode.

A lucky escape

To Rochelle’s credit, though shaken by this experience, when I spoke to her on the phone last night she seemed to be taking it all in her stride. Having completed a lucky escape from the grips of a high-control cult, her thoughts are now turning to her parents and her understandable concern for their predicament.

They have sadly been hoodwinked by an organization that is infatuated with itself and ruthlessly crushes any attempts at independent thinking or honest inquiry.

If you happen to be thinking about having a bible study with Jehovah’s Witnesses, Rochelle would like you to consider her story. Any organization that claims it has the one and only “truth” should welcome the closest possible scrutiny of its teachings and practices if it wishes to be taken seriously.

But in the case of Watchtower, asking the wrong questions or investigating too thoroughly can land you in hot water. You could well end up being condemned from the platform as a poisonous “apostate” before you have even joined.

new-cedars-signature2

 

 

 

 

 

An article on this story for German speakers is available on this link

157 thoughts on “The Unbaptized ‘Apostate’ of Salem, Massachusetts

  • May 20, 2014 at 4:46 pm
    Permalink

    I wish Rochelle could take legal actions against the elders of that cong. They were way out of line.

    When someone wants to clarify what appears to be negative info about WT, and they go into “panic mode” they are showing to all what they really are – a mind-controlling cult.

    I’m also thankful that Rochelle escaped their clutches, now she can continue with a normal life rather than becoming a slave to the WT.

  • May 20, 2014 at 4:46 pm
    Permalink

    An elder once said from the platform that those who become inactive simply have poor study habits, even stomping his foot as he made the point. Yet, when a circuit overseer visited me after I was obviously going to stay inactive, I quoted a scripture and a Watchtower article verbatim, and his response was “The bible doesn’t say that! The article didn’t say that!” Pulled them both out and read them exactly as I had quoted, word-for-word. So my study habits were better than the CO’s, yet I’m the one who left. Personal attacks and outright slander are their favorite weapons, apparently. Wonder if people can start suing for that.

  • May 20, 2014 at 4:52 pm
    Permalink

    I always find it interesting Jesus had no problems asking in this account the discipline who they thought he was Mark 9:18 “And it came to pass, as he was praying apart, the disciples were with him: and he asked them, saying, Who do the multitudes say that I am? 19 And they answering said, John the Baptist; but others say, Elijah; and others, that one of the old prophets is risen again.20 And he said unto them, But who say ye that I am? And Peter answering said, The Christ of God.” Because he had proven who he was, he could stand up to asking questions about himself even though other people may not know who he was, his discipline could readily identify him as the Son of God. Truth is truth. For instance people can question the existence of gravity all they want. Once a person walks off of something and drops it is undeniable truth. The same thing will happens to anyone who walks of of the same thing over and over again. truth will never change.

  • May 20, 2014 at 5:23 pm
    Permalink

    Great account, Cedars. Clearly the ghost of Fred Franz still walks the floors of the Watchtower.

    Frank

  • May 20, 2014 at 5:31 pm
    Permalink

    Many of the people who left this organization have some of the best study habits, which is precisely why they left. John Cedars being one of them.

    • May 20, 2014 at 6:14 pm
      Permalink

      JWIntellect you are so correct! If a person really studies the Bible and listen to what they hear from the platform they would have to began asking some questions and I am only referring to the teachings alone. After all isn’t that what the Berean Christians did and the scripture said to see if the word Paul was teaching were “true” and were a talking about teachings from the Apostle Paul :-) Even calling these ones of more noble character than those in Thessalonica.

  • May 20, 2014 at 5:51 pm
    Permalink

    @AlexandraJames – You can sue for anything, but getting an audience in court and winning, there’s the main point.

    “There is no concept of heresy or apostasy in Hinduism. Hinduism grants absolute freedom for an individual to leave or choose his faith; on the Path of God. Hindus believe all sincere faiths ultimately lead to the same God.”

    Notable apostates:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy#Notable_examples
    MARTIN LUTHER

    Helen Keller: “The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next.” (Optimism, 1903)

    Friedrich Nietzsche: “Whoever has overthrown an existing law of custom has hitherto always first been accounted a bad man: but when, as did happen, the law could not afterwards be reinstated and this fact was accepted, the predicate gradually changed; – history treats almost exclusively of these bad men who subsequently became good men!” (Daybreak, § 20)

    Higher learning, b*tches…

  • May 20, 2014 at 6:09 pm
    Permalink

    Though I hold the abrupt action taken from the elders as tasteless, it’s nonetheless expected. Wrong or right, it’s a faith people choose, and in this case to tell an elder women whose whole life revolves around this one thing, who has given countless hours proslytacing, dresses for meetings and assemblies, her social structure of friends and family, her very own self identity IS being a JW; to tell her she is wrong is cruel. It’s like telling a nun or monk that they’re wrong. Rachel should’ve just walked away, said ‘ no thank you’ and be done with it. Rachel should’ve known that you can’t be friends with these people, bad enough if they are family. How can you be friends with someone who constantly brings up their faith every 5 minutes? In the end their numbers are diminishing in 1 st world nations, tapering in others, and only growing in countries that are impoverished and underdeveloped. About 3/4 of individuals who were brought up as JWs leave ( so people do leave- myself included) , and about 10,000 hours of going door to door produces an ROI of 1.3 of a baptized individual. With that one could deduce that those individuals that the JW does convert from other faiths -as a general rule- weren’t that into their former religious associations.

  • May 20, 2014 at 6:11 pm
    Permalink

    Correction Rochelle,

  • May 20, 2014 at 6:13 pm
    Permalink

    Though I hold the abrupt action taken from the elders as tasteless, it’s nonetheless expected. Wrong or right, it’s a faith people choose, and in this case to tell an elder women whose whole life revolves around this one thing, who has given countless hours proslytacing, dresses for meetings and assemblies, her social structure of friends and family, her very own self identity IS being a JW; to tell her she is wrong is cruel. It’s like telling a nun or monk that they’re wrong. Rochelle should’ve just walked away, said ‘ no thank you’ and be done with it. She should’ve known that you can’t be friends with these people, bad enough if they are family. How can you be friends with someone who constantly brings up their faith every 5 minutes? In the end their numbers are diminishing in 1 st world nations, tapering in others, and only growing in countries that are impoverished and underdeveloped. About 3/4 of individuals who were brought up as JWs leave ( so people do leave- myself included) , and about 10,000 hours of going door to door produces an ROI of 1.3 of a baptized individual. With that one could deduce that those individuals that the JW does convert from other faiths -as a general rule- weren’t that into their former religious associations.

  • May 20, 2014 at 7:23 pm
    Permalink

    Is this weird behaviour by the JW bosses something that can be seen throughout WT history? Or does it indicate new depths of paranoia as the internet undermines the cult’s power?

  • May 20, 2014 at 7:35 pm
    Permalink

    Rochelle should consider herself lucky. they actually did her a favor. i’m sorry her parents can’t see it. i’m hoping her father eventually sees the truth and leaves the org. hopefully neither parent will shun their daughter. but she should be ready for it. if she has been labeled an apostate, then they will consider her as disfellowshipping herself. so they will probably push dad and mom (even if mom isn’t a JW yet) to shun her or face the consequences. it’s their kind of thing. the only reason they didn’t push me to come back was they were afraid of my mother who pushed them to be the cult they were working to be. she was more cultish than they were. lol!!! she thought i was demonized and told the elders. they talked to me and told her they expelled them. then told me to just not talk about my ESP experiences again. i didn’t realize it at the time. but they didn’t want to deal with her craziness either. probably afraid she would take over. good luck to Rochelle and glad she asked the questions and learned from it. so few do!!!

  • May 20, 2014 at 7:35 pm
    Permalink

    Rochelle, I am sorry to hear what happened to you for asking the right “wrong” questions. It is greatly to your advantage that you found out the TRUTH about the truth before investing any more of yourself into an organization.

    I can only imagine how hurt you were by their conditional love. It is my hope that you can reach your parents, and rescue them from Watchtower’s hold on them.

    I hope that you continue your pursuit of truth from the Bible, not from any person or organization.

    I’m so glad you found your way to JWsurvey, where the love is unconditional and the support is abundant….and we rejoice with you that you are free from the control of Watchtower. Please know that Jesus says his yoke is easy to bear, and the burden he gives us is light.

    The commandment he gave us is to love God and to love our neighbor as ourselves. It really is just that simple.

  • May 20, 2014 at 7:41 pm
    Permalink

    it’s sort of a new paranoia or at least one we are only first hearing about because she spoke of it over the internet. you wonder just how many others have had to deal with this over the years and they just left and walked away without saying anything. most ppl wouldn’t probably make a fuss about it, figuring they did them a favor and they ran, not walked away without looking back. i sure did. i never really talked against them. but my mother being the nazi witness she was, a lot was hidden from me and i bet a lot was hidden from her (as it probably is for most JW’s and those unbaptized). so who knows? i haven’t been in the org since i was 21yrs old and i’m almost 55yrs old now. my children were raised without it and although my daughter was interested (a JW at a park went over and tried to get her to read the awake and watchtower without my permission) as soon as she realized she couldn’t celebrate holidays, birthdays or live normally, she decided it would never be for her. then the cult trappings came out and we all decided they were to crazy to even bother with.

  • May 20, 2014 at 8:21 pm
    Permalink

    why bother to sue? just walk away. they will have their followers and they will have their cult. we don’t need to tie up the courts with BS lawsuits like this. the ones for rape, molestation and abuse are different. they are what the court system is about. nobody is forcing anybody to stay. if they harass you on your door step, email, text, call or snail mail, call the police and get a restraining order or just tell them to leave. bring out a gun. lol. or a holy symbol. even going naked or making up a phony spell to get them to move on should do it. or just say, “i’m disfellowshipped!” i guarantee you they will NOT come back for a year. if they say, “but it couldn’t be from our congregation” say, “it’s not. i’m from out of state, country, planet!” and they will leave you alone. i have yet to have anybody say anything but “sorry” and walk away since i disfellowshipped myself because i took 4pints of blood after my daughter was born (i actually had left them sooner, but never really made a big deal about it).

  • May 20, 2014 at 9:04 pm
    Permalink

    to me this would be a frivolous lawsuit to tie up the courts. why does she need to sue them? they did her a favor and she can just walk away. lets save lawsuits for cases of rape, molestation or abuse. freedom of speech is something that is a right in this country. they can say anything they please. if she is smart (and she is) walking away is her best bet. but a lawsuit over this is just a waste of money and time.

  • May 20, 2014 at 9:04 pm
    Permalink

    I’ve been thinking of my own ‘story’ and this one is hitting me close to my home…Thank You.

  • May 20, 2014 at 9:17 pm
    Permalink

    What an amazing (and sad) experience. Thanks Cedars for this very interesting article.

    It seems like the Watchtower true believers are getting more and more anxious to shun. Must be the koolaid.

  • May 20, 2014 at 11:04 pm
    Permalink

    I my case they even refused baptism because I was asking too many embarrassing questions where there were no answers yet (waiting for new light…)
    For exemple, (it was in the 90s) I pointed out that other Bible translations had another interpretation for “generation” (La Bible de Chouraqui-Un Pacte Neuf) meaning ages in Greek and not 80 years. In fact, so-called new light rectified this dogm recently.

  • May 21, 2014 at 1:26 am
    Permalink

    There’s a war going on here. A war of information & education.
    Pontius pilate asked, what I consider to be the greatest question ever asked, ‘what is truth?’
    As John rightly points out the Watchtower equates itself with Jehovah but , as some other posts have shown, both God and Christ could be questioned. Not so the Watchtower Society.

  • May 21, 2014 at 1:47 am
    Permalink

    A thought for thinking Jehovah’s witnesses
    The apostle Pauls warning of a religion that would teach a false presence, claim to speak for God while looking down on every other form of worship/belief while sitting in God’s temple is striking. 2Thess2
    Another thought, is not testing the inspired utterance a scriptural thing to do?

  • May 21, 2014 at 1:59 am
    Permalink

    Wow, talk about fear mongering! They have got their scare tactics practised perfectly haven’t they. Evil evil religion.
    Rochelle has my sympathies and my admiration for being able to spot this hypocritical cult before she got baptised!

  • May 21, 2014 at 2:28 am
    Permalink

    To the Heretic.

    Good man Herr N.

    What was it the man said, “God is Dead, in His AFFECTIONS towards Mankind.”

    I seriously believe that’s not True, otherwise we’re all in deep trouble.

    He was a Friend of Mine. Know him quiet well actually.lol

    Herr N. was also heard to have said, “You can’t always expect to overcome with Reason what some people have learned to believe WITHOUT Reason”

    He used to Laugh out Loud sometimes, even at his own sayings. He remained me a lot of Groucho Marks(?)

    Lol smiley face

  • May 21, 2014 at 2:55 am
    Permalink

    When I was an Elder for many years it ALWAYS bothered me the things the congregation or Society would drum up as an issue? It was like they were worried that someone, somewhere might be enjoying their lives without being a JW or a JW might be having to much fun and they had to stop it! They would create issues and make it sound like the entire congregation as going to lose “JEHOVAH”S SPIRIT” if someone was playing on a sports team, or someone had a beard, or a few sisters wore their dress to short or wore pants, or a young brother had spiked hair etc. The next thing their would be a “SPECIAL” talk about
    grooming or spending o much time NOT in the field service. It was always something. I often thought to myself even as an Elder that this is not normal human activity and normal thinking? I always asked myself questions which is what the bible tells us to do. Examine your faith! When I attended those Elder meetings and 3 day courses I kept saying to myself that this is not about
    learning the bible. This is about running a corporation.
    Even though I could see it I was still blinded and scared to make an exit bc of the shunning factor. Finally I need to fade away to keep my own sanity.It was the best thing I ever did! I label the Jw’s as the “Religion of No Fun”!

    If someone, somewhere might be enjoying their lives we need to stop it!

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:01 am
    Permalink

    The Watchtower takes no responsibility for its actions. It’s like a wife beater who abuses his wife. God help her if she dares ask a question!
    The Watchtower has taught hundreds of falsehoods and took zero responsibility. Instead of which it prefers to stigmatise and bully those who expose it’s abusive behaviour. Bastards.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:02 am
    Permalink

    The Bible speaks of men and women such as this:

    But as for the COWARDS and those WITHOUT FAITH and those who are DISGUSTING in their FILTH and murderers and the sexually immoral and those practicing spiritism and idolaters and ALL THE LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that BURNS with fire and sulfur. This means the second DEATH.

    • May 21, 2014 at 3:10 am
      Permalink

      Most Christians seem to go for the Love and Peace, turn the other cheek Jesus of the Sermon on the Mount.

      Others go for the first group of post Crucifixion Christians referred to in the Book of Acts and equate Christianity with Communism. (Bible Belt Republicans ignore the Commie Jesus.)

      JWs’ favourite Jesus is the sword waving character of Revelation who presides over an orgy of mega destruction. (Except they have quite arbitrarily and un Biblically binned Hellfire).

      The Law fulfilling Jesus fits JWdom to an extent. Conformity to the Big Bosses’ rules and diktats is of prime importance to remain in good favour with the Priesthood.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:09 am
    Permalink

    Any objective reader will see these blogs for what they really are: fanatic attacks by disaffected former members. Members who were unable to live the standards of worthiness of the organization they once claimed to support. Nearly every claim made is outrageously hyperbolic. Every new program and initiative is a secret conspiracy to do something nefarious, although we never find out what that imagined conspiracy actually is. I expect the next post to be how a Governing Body member was spotted wearing a navy blue suit… and this shows he is a supporter of al-qaeda. That is the level of absurdity of these posts.

    • May 21, 2014 at 3:24 am
      Permalink

      ‘standards of worthiness’ eh? What are these standards?

      1. Protect paedophiles.

      2. DO not think or question.

      3. DO not get educated beyond the standard needed to read WT lit.

      4. Be deceived by a bunch of money grabbing controllong old farts in New York and their outrageous and unevidenced claim to be God’s exclusive earthly rep.

      5. Reject your friends and family if they disagree with you on arcane metaphysical concepts.

      6. Leave your children to die when a blood transfusion could save them.

      These are standards worthy only of crazed control freaks and their tragically deluded followers.

      As to the question implied in your title. Many things happen to apostates. Most of us are much happier freed from the control of a malign cult.

      We know that the JWs’ perverse longing to see us all executed at some imminent Armageddon is a shedload of shit, a tool in the armoury of a cult which seems to have mastered the dark arts of cult mind control.

    • May 21, 2014 at 12:24 pm
      Permalink

      This blog, and all ex JWs and the growing global community set to expose your grubby little corner of Christendom, owes you, ‘What will happen to APostates’ a debt of gratitude.

      A casual or curious visitor to this site will se the pathetic nonsense that a believing JW comes up with. No defence of your malign little cult has been attempted.

      Your outfit’s ‘worthy’ standards were listed. They are facts, not opinions and you are incapable of countering them.

      Whether you persist in clinging to a minor sect in Christendom whose only ‘achievements’ in its 135 year history have been duff prophecies, deaths through refusal of blood, split families through shunning, nightmares about the Armageddon fantasy, stunted lives through the frowning on higher education and normal healthy social activities, is impossible to say.

      Just to close, you may ponder why, in 1918, during an invisible visit to earth, the returned Jesus elected a sect, all of whose practices and doctrines the sect has since rejected.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:10 am
    Permalink

    I agree lawsuits on his issue would be a waste of time and energy. Over time these things become self destructive or splinter into other groups. I don’t know how long the modern day WT org can or will continue in its present form but I believe it will eventually ( next 20 years ) self destruct bc their teachings do not hole water and people can see that now. Also they don’t bring anything to the table that is worth while except perhaps a “FAKE” interest in the bible to the public.They don’t help the poor, they don’t build for people in need, they do not do research to help the sick, they don’t clothe the needy, they don’t really teach faith in Jesus Christ unless it is through the pages of the WT first,they do not educate people, no colleges, no campuses,The ONLY thing they do is scare folks that the end of the World is imminent and you need to be a JW to survive?

    In my opinion it seems that ppl will wake up to the teaching of the generation and 1914 changes, and also to the medical issues they created about blood,the F&D slacve issue flip flop. What do they have to offer people except dictatorial religious views and shunning?

    The Cult that s known as the World Wide Church of God( Herbert Armstrong ) did self destruct also and is non existent or splintered into various factors. Same will be the fate of the WT although hey seemed to have more CENTRAL control than others had.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:18 am
    Permalink

    Gary

    U R absolutely right in WT taking no responsibility foe their own errors. They Love to point out all the errors the Churches have made and call them Babylon the great etc but they have become what they detested! They are greedy, materialistic, Liars, Chile molesters, corporate mongers, Rule makers for every breath of life, control freaks. Did you know they have applied for Money from the Government in Sweden and other countries just as those governments give money tot he Catholic and Lutheran Churches? They have condemned the Churches over the years for accepting state money but now they want it for themselves? So if the Governments are from Satan who are they accepting money from?

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:27 am
    Permalink

    Can you refute every claim made by Cedars in this blog?

    Thus far, in this and every single ex JW blog, Facebook page and website, JWs who try and defend their cult disappear after a very short while.

    Do have a go, ‘What will happen,’ but bear in mind that trying to defend the utterly indefensible is impossible.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:29 am
    Permalink

    What will happen to apostates?

    What you are describing is what is going on in the WT? Sexual immorality= Child molestations, Liars,= 120 years of False Prophecy, lying about 607 BCE and 1914 when the Org Knows it is not true, and lying in court to protect pedophiles, Spiritism= numerology and pyramology that that led Russel and Rutherford and others to conclude that the pyramids represented and foretold 1914 and Armageddon. All those teachings and numerology are found in Spiritism. Those teachings persist until this very day.

    Without faith= putting faith in men and not in Jesus Christ and Jehovah bc the WT demands that the only way to Christ is through them and the F&D Slave 7 member governing body. Although the F&D slave teaching is a Brand new one now. SO for 50 years the JW’s taught that it was ALL the anointed everywhere at anytime “feeding” each other? Also the teaching that GUARNATEED the 1914 generation would not pass away is now gone? Also the Jesus came in that year? So who are the lairs did you say?

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:38 am
    Permalink

    @TheHeretic,

    I think Hindous got the point. Religions are nothing more than groups generating this “us and them” feeling. And they are completely useless.

    I think Rochelle had a rare case of luck for not being admitted into the prison. I really hope the family realize this and be free of this control too.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:44 am
    Permalink

    “Can you refute every claim made by Cedars in this blog?”

    It is hard to “refute” paranoid fantasies. I mean that seriously. All of the blogger’s stories are designed to spin everyday organizational changes or procedures into master plans for evil world domination (presumably the Governing Body exists in his mind as caped supervillains twirling their mustaches)

    The real story here is a sad little man in some Slavic country who turned his back on his Heavenly Father (and his earthly father, for that matter) and has instead gone off into the serve the interests of the demons. To him we say:

    “For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of JUDGEMENT and a BURNING INDIGNATION that is going to CONSUME those in opposition.” -Hebrews 10:26,27

    • May 21, 2014 at 4:09 am
      Permalink

      What do you have against Slavic countries? lol

      Everybody, I give you… a Watchtower apologist. Big on insults, not so big on backing up words with evidence.

    • May 21, 2014 at 5:32 am
      Permalink

      As a 1975 Armageddon survivor, pulled out of 10th grade to sell magazines, beaten then df’d and shunned for 40 years, family completely destroyed, I know a little something about your paranoid fantasies, all subject to change now because of some “new light” to boost book sales.

      I imagine you come here because there is a little apostate inside your brain you can’t ignore. But, some day, you will listen and begin to find out just how gullible you have been to buy in to this cult.

      Mr. Cedars speaks for many of us, and there are many. I for one am extremely grateful for his efforts. Thank you, John.

    • May 21, 2014 at 7:55 am
      Permalink

      Cedars’ family have turned their back on him as he no longer believes that a bunch of control freaks in New York are God’s exclusive earthly rep. and whose every word, written and spoken is THE TRUTH.

      Why ‘WHat will happen to the Apostates?’ do you believe that JW TRUTH is true?

      WHat is the evidence for the JW Gov. Bod. being the ‘Faithful and Discreet Slave’ as referred to by Jesus in Matthew 24?

      On this claim is based the entire authority of the JW bosses.

      I have asked countless JWs to supply evidence to support this claim. None has provided any.

      I presume therefore, that there is no evidence, and that the claim, like all that is spouted by the JW bosses, is bogus.

      Or am I wrong and paranoid. Do you. ‘WHat will happen to the APostates’, have evidence to support the JW GOv. Bod. F and D Slave claim?

      ANd while you are about it, please tell me why you think I deserve an imminent Armageddon execution for having rejected a grubby little cult in Christendom that assured me, as a chid, that Armageddon was definitely due well before the end of the 20 the century.

      The prime TRUTH that I learned as a child at the Kingdom Hall turned out not to be true.

      Please supply some answers. You have made your opinion of Cedars and blog clear – thank you.

      Now please provide some answers.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:47 am
    Permalink

    Perhaps, ‘what will happen to the apostates’, it is the governing body who are the apostates. Just as in Christ day and as Paul forwarned.

    Please find one lie that make these posts worthy of your condemnation. Prove, as they can do regarding the Watchtower, that they are lairs.
    If liars are worthy of condemnation as found in the book of Revelation and as you rightly point out please explain to me God’s point of view of those who take a position that God did not grant like Uzziah.

  • May 21, 2014 at 3:59 am
    Permalink

    Is what will happen to apostates denying a bible study the right to ask questions?

    the girls was not a baptised member of the religion, nor even going out witnessing, no one would answer her questions and why, because they are scared of the truth, if they have nothing to hide then it would be a wonderful witness to answer the questions.

    Nope they ran like a pack of cowards, they publically slandered her.

  • May 21, 2014 at 4:15 am
    Permalink

    How about the paranoid fantasy of being appointed over all the masters belongings and disfellowshipping all who disagreed. Call me a liar. Not to mention taking a position that God has not granted. So who are the cowards that you mention? Perhaps it’s those who can not apologise.

  • May 21, 2014 at 5:18 am
    Permalink

    How familiar! Thanks for sharing this story, and fair warning… for all of us unbaptized apostates.

  • May 21, 2014 at 5:20 am
    Permalink

    Gotta love that they are reading this blog in the first place. Kind of like reading Playboy for the “articles.”

    • May 21, 2014 at 7:29 am
      Permalink

      Yeah, or like being an NGO for the library … must be quite familiar approach …

  • May 21, 2014 at 5:32 am
    Permalink

    What an interesting case history of Watchtower paranoia condemning a non-member as an ‘apostate’ simply because of asking awkward questions.
    I was going to say poor Rochelle but actually I’m glad for her that she was able to see the real light before making a commitment. (Best wishes with dealing with your family!)
    After wasting a quarter of a century of my life in the Watchtower Bible and Trap Society and subsequently spending much time thinking about the dynamics of belief, I conclude that JWs are just as much a desperate cult as was the one Paul nurtured in the first century. Watchtower paranoia is Pauline paranoia.
    To believe that the scriptures are sacred is the first and biggest mistake which once swallowed, will lead the gullible into the realms of religious fairy-land.

  • May 21, 2014 at 5:54 am
    Permalink

    APOSTATES – Cowards, without Faith, Disgusting in their Filth, Murderers and Sexually Immoral, Practicing Spiritism and Idolatory, and Liars as Well!!

    Sounds like a Lot of Hard Work to Me.
    Guess I’ll just try to keep on the Straight and Narrow Path in Future.
    Just Keep on Keeping on, Like A Bird that Flew
    Tangled Up In Blue.

  • May 21, 2014 at 5:58 am
    Permalink

    “What will happen to apostates”, thus far all you have done is give a tutorial on administering ad hominem attacks. Attacking a person does not change the evidence they present. You have presented nothing but personal attacks. If you wish to demonstrate your point of these “paranoid fantasies,” you must present evidence of such. In absence of evidence, your personal attacks do nothing more than prove that you have no proof, and thus amount to propaganda. If you have proof to back up your assertions, let’s see it. If you can only insult people, the only person you are really insulting is yourself, and your lack of ability to defend your position. The truth never requires propaganda for defense.

Comments are closed.