The Governing Body now claims that they as a group now occupy the role of the “faithful and discreet slave”, but this new teaching will be hard to explain

Reports are emerging of an announcement at the 128th Annual Meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses now considers itself to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class of Matthew 24:45 in its entirety.

Previously it was understood that the Governing Body were merely humble “representatives” of the “Slave Class”, which comprised the 12,000 or more anointed remnant of Christians with a heavenly calling still on earth. Despite claiming to be “representatives” of this group of people, suspicions were raised in the minds of many thinking Witnesses after reading articles such as the Questions From Readers of the August 15th 2011 Watchtower, where it was admitted that the Governing Body has no actual communication with memorial partakers (the “anointed”) and even feels that some of these ones may be mentally imbalanced. (see w11 8/15 p. 22)

Many have predicted that, at some point in the future, the Governing Body would end this confusion by claiming that they themselves are the Faithful and Discreet Slave, with the anointed remnant playing no special role. According to numerous reports this has finally happened. However, this remarkable claim opens a labyrinth of fresh doctrinal puzzles that future publications must now attempt to explain.

Crowds filing in to the Jersey Assembly Hall just prior to the meeting

The Annual Meeting at which this “new light” was revealed was held at Jersey Assembly Hall (The Stanley Theater), New Jersey on October 6th – the same day that a sensitive Watchtower letter was leaked on the internet.

Although I previously reported in this article that the meeting was NOT broadcast to other locations, this appears to be untrue. The meeting had a total audience of 15,514 including those watching via video link from Brooklyn, Patterson, Walkill and Canada. Some in attendance took notes of what was said during the meeting, and have leaked this extaordinary new information online, so the news is gradually spreading around the world even though this “new light” has not yet been presented officially in the publications as it normally would be. (Update: to read about the printed explanation of the “new light” in the July 15 2013 Watchtower, please click here)

Anointed demoted – Governing Body promoted

The new understanding was explained over a series of six talks delivered by various Governing Body members over a two-hour period. The purpose of the talks was to impart the following adjustments:

  • The Faithful and Discreet Slave was NOT appointed at Pentecost 33CE, meaning that there has not been a continuous line of members of the Slave Class on the earth down through the ages. The Slave Class was only appointed for the first time by Christ in 1919.
  • The Faithful and Discreet Slave is a small group of anointed brothers during Jesus’ presence serving at Watchtower Headquarters who are directly involved in the preparing and dispensing of spiritual food. The individual members of the Governing Body are not the Faithful and Discreet Slave. They only act as the Faithful and Discreet Slave when they are working as a collective body in making decisions regarding the dispensing of spiritual food.
  • The “domestics” of Matthew 24:45 are all those who are fed spiritually by the Governing Body, whether of the anointed or “other sheep”. This includes individual members of the Governing Body when they partake of spiritual food.
  • The events described in Matthew 24:46,47 now refer to Jesus coming during the Great Tribulation and giving the Governing Body their reward in heaven along with the rest of the anointed.
  • The “belongings” of Matthew 24:47 refer to all of Christ’s heavenly and earthly interests.
  • Despite founding the Watch Tower Society, Charles Taze Russell was not part of the Slave Class because he was not alive and serving at Headquarters when Christ made his selection in 1919. The work of Russell and his associates was like that of the “messenger” in Malachi 3:1.
  • The cleansing of God’s people is ongoing because, apparently, the bible gives two accounts of Christ doing a “cleansing” work, once at the start and once at the end of his ministry

In addition to the doctrinal changes, it was also explained that:

  • The Governing Body members now make decisions based on a total majority, meaning that if a doctrinal understanding does not have full agreement by all Governing Body members, it is “shelved” until a future date.
  • The lecture for Gilead and Branch Schools about the Faithful and Discreet Slave being 1,900 years old has now been deleted.
Many will wonder why such a profound new understanding of scripture was disseminated during a corporate meeting, and not through Watchtower publications

It is understood that the above doctrinal changes will be explained in further detail in future Watchtower articles. However, it could potentially be months before these articles are published and then studied at congregation meetings. Reports on Annual Meetings are not normally published until the August 15th Watchtower is released in April of each year. In the meantime, many brothers will likely be confused and bewildered that the Governing Body has made such a radical departure from their previous understanding of Matthew 24:45. Still more will wonder why these dramatic adjustments were not first published in a Watchtower article so that they could be simultaneously disseminated throughout the entire organization rather than announced to a select few at a New York corporate meeting.

Anointed Christians who entertain a heavenly hope will feel particularly aggrieved at this latest humiliation. As memorial partakers they had already suffered the indignity of being labelled as potentially “mentally or emotionally imbalanced” in the aforementioned Questions From Readers article of the August 15th, 2011 Watchtower. In the same article, the Governing Body bluntly dismissed the suggestion that there was any requirement on their part to contact such ones when deciding over doctrinal matters.

Now the 12,000+ crowd of anointed spread throughout the earth has suffered the final insult of being demoted as members of the Faithful and Discreet Slave in favor of eight men in New York who have deemed themselves the only ones worthy of this title. When it comes to teaching Christ’s followers, the anointed must now share equal standing with the millions of the Great Crowd as Christ’s “domestics”, even though they are supposed to rule over such ones as kings and priests with Christ at some future date.

A subtle use of words

It is noteworthy that this “new light” stops short of expressly naming “the Governing Body” as the Faithful Slave – rather a “group” of anointed brothers serving at Watchtower headquarters, which can only be applied to the Governing Body in our present day. This distinction is significant, because it acknowledges that there was no Governing Body as we know it prior to 1971 – only the Watch Tower Society Board of Directors who, as I have explained in a previous article, were informally described as a “governing body” (lower case) only from 1944 onwards.

There was no Governing Body in 1919 when Christ supposedly came to make his inspection – only Rutherford and the Society’s directors

The significance of this is that, if Christ had come to inspect the organization and appoint the Governing Body as his Faithful Slave in 1919 he would have been disappointed, because this entity would not exist as a collective decision-making body for another 52 years! However, if Christ was less specific and instead chose “a group of anointed men at Headquarters” at that time, then Rutherford as Watch Tower President and his board of subordinate directors were available to be chosen collectively as the Faithful Slave. Even if you are prepared to accept this rather bewildering explanation of Matthew 24:45 (a scripture that most people regard as a mere parable), there is one particularly problematic doctrinal flaw that the Society will need to address.

No scriptural precedent for apostolic succession

If Rutherford and his anointed associates were selected in 1919, then on what scriptural basis can it be automatically assumed that their roles as the Faithful and Discreet Slave were transferable, or could be “inherited”, by successive generations of the Board of Directors of the Watch Tower Society – which, after all, is merely a legal entity?

As Christ’s chosen apostles gradually died off they were not replaced, therefore how can a group of men chosen in 1919 still be leading God’s people today?

Part of the basis of this new understanding appears to be that Jehovah has always used a small group of people to teach and dispense spiritual food to the many, and that in the First Century it was the apostles and older men who were given this role by Christ. However, the bible provides no example of how those appointed by God to be his representatives may pass their duties on to someone else in the event of their death without God’s clear and unambiguous approval. (Numbers 27:18-20) The idea of someone inheriting someone else’s position because they have died is clearly a fleshly concept rather than a spiritual one.

True, the Kings of Israel and Judea were succeeded by their male offspring, but they played no distinct role in instructing the people. Most importantly, the arrangement of kings in Israel was not favored by God, but rather instituted to placate the Israelites who demanded a king to serve under in the same way as the nations around them. (1 Samuel 8:5-8, 19) It’s therefore inconceivable that a monarchic arrangement in which those appointed by God may choose their own successors would be a feature of “Spiritual Israel” – an institution that is not subject to the whims of humans but is of purely divine origin.

In the case of the twelve apostles appointed by Christ, once these died off they were not replaced by successors. Matthias was the only apostle “of the twelve” who wasn’t appointed directly by Jesus, but he was only appointed as a replacement of unfaithful Judas by the casting of lots. (Acts 1:23-26) The Society themselves admit that the reason for the appointment of Matthias in this manner was due to the unfaithfulness of Judas, rather than as a response to Judas’ death. As further evidence, when faithful apostle James died (as with the rest of the apostles) there is no record of any concern over whether a replacement should be appointed. Consider the following quote from the Insight book…

“Sometime during the ten days between Jesus’ ascension and the day of Pentecost it was viewed as necessary that another be selected to fill the vacancy left by Judas, not simply on the basis of his death but, rather, on the basis of his wicked defection, as the Scriptures quoted by Peter indicate. (Ac 1:15-22; Ps 69:25; 109:8; compare Re 3:11.) Thus, by contrast, when the faithful apostle James was put to death, there is no record of any concern to appoint anyone to succeed him in his position of apostle.—Ac 12:2.” – Insight On The Scriptures, Volume 1, Page 129

The Governing Body has long pointed to Christ’s apostles as a divinely approved model for their collective authority, but they have never once explained how Christ has any involvement in their individual appointment. They are now asking us to believe that Christ directly chose Joseph Rutherford and his anointed associates as his modern-day “apostles”, or Faithful and Discreet Slave, in 1919 – but they will never be able to satisfactorily explain how, once Rutherford and his associates died, the divinely appointed authority of these ones was conferred to successive generations of Watchtower leaders.

In the past, the Society was able to evade this issue with comparative ease, because they could point to the Faithful and Discreet Slave CLASS as being ever-present throughout history from Pentecost 33CE onwards (i.e. individual anointed ones were not “succeeded” by anyone on their death), with the Governing Body assuming an albeit self-appointed and symbolic role as representatives of these ones in recent times.

In the bible, God directly chose faithful men to lead his people. Once these men died, their God-given authority died with them.

Now, the Society has effectively scrapped the idea of the Faithful and Discreet Slave as a “class”, and now insists that the office of the Faithful Slave was bestowed by Christ on the shoulders of Rutherford and his associates in 1919, and this office was somehow passed down to successive members of the Watch Tower Society Board of Directors until the Governing Body arrangement was introduced in 1971. Thereafter, they insist that this “succession” continued as Governing Body members died and were replaced until we arrive today at a situation where eight individuals, none of whom had even been born in 1919, are now Christ’s “Faithful and Discreet Slave”. Not only does this sound incredibly implausible – most significantly there is absolutely no scriptural precedent for things to be done by God in this manner whatsoever.

In the bible, God’s favored way of doing things has always been to appoint either an individual or group of individuals to lead his people, and once these ones died their office (or position) died with them – unless God made clear that he was handing it to somebody else. In other words, God appoints people according to their individual merits, not based on who has gone before them. There is no reason to believe that God or Christ would do a complete U-turn and now do things entirely differently, especially during times such as these when the Earth is supposed to be on the brink of falling under Christ’s millennial rule, and divinely appointed direction is said to be needed more than ever by God’s people deep in these “last days”.

Why does Jesus need 93 years and counting to cleanse his organization?

It is also interesting to note that, according to reports, the Governing Body is now insisting that the organization has been in an ongoing period of “cleansing” since 1919. Whether this will be somehow used to explain the idea of succession remains to be seen. The Governing Body may try to claim that part of this ongoing “cleansing” involves Christ appointing new members of the Faithful Slave. Regardless of how they try to explain it, thinking Witnesses will wonder why Jesus Christ needs 93 years and counting, not to mention successive generations of Watchtower leaders, to cleanse his organization and impart divine truth.

A talk by Samuel Herd apparently attempted to reinforce the link between the Apostles and the Governing Body, but admitted that once these Apostles died the “restraint” was removed allowing apostasy to set in. As I have already asked in this article, how can the Governing Body justify likening themselves to every feature of the First Century apostles apart from the key characteristic whereby no apostles were replaced once they had died?

A poor choice of slave

Not only is the “successor” element of the Governing Body’s new teaching highly suspect, but prior to this new teaching questions were already being raised as to how Christ could possibly have chosen Joseph Rutherford and his associates as his approved earthly organization in 1919. There are two main reasons for this…

Spiritual Food – I have already published an article detailing how the publications of the Bible Students in circulation between 1918 and 1919 were not just partially inaccurate – they were shockingly misleading and downright fanciful in their application of scripture. There are few more obvious examples of this than the Finished Mystery, which spoke of the distance between the place where it was written and the place where it was printed as having prophetic significance, and described Charles Taze Russell as speaking from beyond the grave through its pages and supervising the “harvest work” even after his death!

Few Witnesses have read the Finished Mystery, so they are oblivious to the ridiculous and fanciful nature of its contents

In another of my articles, on InsideTheWatchtower.com, I have presented evidence of racist bigotry in the pages of early Watchtower publications both before, during and after Christ’s supposed inspection. Rutherford in particular described black men and women as a cursed “race of servants” in a Golden Age article ten years after Christ’s inspection was supposed to have taken place (see The Golden Age, July 24th 1929, page 702). Bear in mind that the Golden Age, the forerunner of today’s Awake! magazine, is still considered a vehicle of spiritual food just like any other Watchtower publication.

In summarizing the publications of the Bible Students that were in circulation during the period of Christ’s inspection in 1919, nobody put it better than former Governing Body member Raymond Franz when he said…

“A direct investigation of the publications of the Watch Tower organization in the years from 1914 to 1919 reveals none of the prudent discretion that causes a man to ‘keep his lips in check’. It would be an insult to Christ Jesus to say that he selected this organization on the basis of what it was teaching, uniquely and distinctively, as of 1919.” (Raymond Franz, In Search of Christian Freedom, page 145)

The personal character of Rutherford – I am still relatively recent in my “awakening” from the indoctrination of my upbringing as a Witness. Throughout my young life “Judge” Joseph Rutherford was frequently held aloft as a shining example of a humble servant of God, and to this day he is lauded by the Watch Tower Society as a man of great wisdom and courage. Such a depiction of him features prominently in the recent Faith In Action DVD series. Even so, the more I read about “Judge” Joseph Rutherford, the more I realize what a monstrous and vile man he truly was.

Rutherford was a bigoted bully who lived in luxury while his workers endured squalor. He allowed alcoholism to flourish at Bethel.

The Society’s problem with Rutherford is that, try as they may, they cannot prevent documented evidence of his questionable character from surfacing – especially since the internet has made it easier than ever before to share such information that would otherwise be hard to obtain. For example, I will shortly be publishing an article that will attempt to pull together some of the documented evidence of Rutherford’s temperament – in particular that which came to light during the libel lawsuit with Watchtower lawyer Olin Moyle between 1939 and 1940.

I will go into these matters in greater detail in my future article. However, suffice to say there is documented evidence connected with the lawsuit to suggest that:

  • Rutherford allowed an atmosphere of alcoholism to prevail at Brooklyn Bethel, to the point where Bethel family members who decided to abstain from alcohol were ostracized and ridiculed.
  • Rutherford was a bully, and used rude, abusive and patronizing words to humiliate Bethel workers that he disapproved of.
  • Rutherford afforded himself a life of luxury with multiple residences across the United States while ordinary Bethel workers lived in cramped and squalid conditions.
  • Rutherford was discriminatory in allowing one sister to get married and live in Bethel with her husband even though he had forced another brother to leave Bethel in disgrace because he chose to marry.

Added to what I have already mentioned about the racist material that was printed in Watchtower publications under Rutherford’s presidency, it seems inconceivable that Christ, who favored no race above another and encouraged his followers to be meek and humble, would choose a man of Rutherford’s bigoted and contemptible character to form part of his “original” Faithful and Discreet Slave. (Mark 9:35; 19:14) Even so, with this latest change of understanding, we are now being asked to believe that Christ not only approved Rutherford’s character, but found him and his associates the only worthy candidates out of all the humans on Earth at that time to form part of his “faithful and discreet slave”.

Fast forward to the 21st Century, and similarly we have a group of men who, despite having nowhere near as bad a reputation as Rutherford, still leave much to be desired in both humility and intelligence. As I have explained in another article, I recently started uploading videos to YouTube that focus on the words spoken from the platform by various Governing Body members.

One such Governing Body member, Anthony Morris III, boasts of disobeying orders from a superior during the Vietnam War, and even routinely calls himself “the Shoemaker” – insinuating that the guidance in his talks originates from his own wisdom rather than God’s. Anthony also uses a “monarchical ordinal” (a roman numeral) after his name to distinguish himself and honor his ancestors. Is this really one of the eight most humble men available on the Earth today for Jesus to appoint as part of his Faithful Slave?

Our current Governing Body members, supposedly chosen by Christ, are hardly shining examples of knowledge or humility

Outstanding intelligence has never been a prerequisite for those who are used by Jehovah. Moses was not a fluent speaker, being “slow of mouth and slow of tongue”. (Exodus 4:10) Jesus’ followers were said to be unlettered and ordinary. (Acts 4:13) Even so, in an era where the ability to communicate effectively is so important, it is surprising to observe the lack of basic knowledge in certain Governing Body members.

In one talk, Anthony Morris III coined the term “thinkingest” to describe Jehovah’s people, and in another talk Stephen Lett felt compelled to explain to his audience that God’s “express will” has nothing to do with express trains, or “expresso” coffee, but simply means God’s clearly stated will. The fact that Stephen saw the need to explain this simple term, or research it for his talk, raises serious questions as to his intellectual credentials as one who is called upon to teach millions of God’s people around the world. Again, would Jesus select men who fall so desperately short with even their basic knowledge of words to communicate globally with his people (or “domestics”) out of the billions of potential candidates at his disposal?

A Predictable Change

I’ve already mentioned that some have long predicted this new change in understanding. I myself considered the possibility a few times, but I felt it would be some time before I would see the teaching actually introduced.

Interestingly, some time ago we ran a mini-survey on this website asking “Who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”, and 15% of the 530 who voted said they thought the term referred to the Governing Body. This well-illustrates that a good number of Witnesses are already oblivious to the matter. It also gives evidence of the cunning way in which the Society has incrementally slipped suggestions of this teaching into its publications over some time in readiness for the change.

As an example, at the 2012 Safeguard Your Heart District Convention a new brochure was released entitled Who Are Doing Jehovah’s Will Today? Page 22 of this brochure carried the heading “Who Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?”, and answered the question (in part) as follows…

“They are genuine, spirit-anointed followers of Jesus. The ‘slave’ dispenses timely spiritual food to fellow worshippers of Jehovah. We are dependant upon this faithful slave class to keep giving us our ‘measure of food supplies at the proper time.'” – Luke 12:42 (Who Are Doing Jehovah’s Will Today?, p. 22)

Most people reading this paragraph before being told of the new “understanding” would fail to spot that the word “all” is crucially missing after “they are” and before “spirit-anointed followers of Jesus” in the first sentence in bold. Whether the omission of this word was deliberate is, I suppose, a matter of conjecture – but it seems more than a coincidence that, just a few months after printing this brochure, it was announced that NOT “all” spirit-anointed followers of Jesus are to be considered part of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Supposedly, only eight individuals in Brooklyn now have this special role in God’s purpose.

What this change means

All of this is first-and-foremost about increasing power and control. By claiming that they are now the Faithful and Discreet Slave in its entirety, the Governing Body reinforces their authority over the organization and their influence over millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world. Rather than, in the minds of many Witnesses, being theoretically answerable to a larger group of thousands of anointed fellow worshippers who they claim to serve as “representatives”, they are now answerable to nobody but Christ. Nobody can question their position because, just as with the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, they can now claim their authority has been granted to them directly by God through Jesus.

By dispensing with the rest of anointed as part of the Slave Class, the Governing Body has more blatantly assumed Pope-like authority

Even though I understand their reasons for making this change, I believe it will cause more problems for the Governing Body than it will solve. Not only have they opened up an entirely new Pandora’s Box of doctrinal issues in their need to explain plausibly how the 1919 Faithful and Discreet Slave has magically become the Governing Body of today – there is something even more troubling that they should concern themselves with.

Many Witnesses were already baffled by the total authority assumed by the Governing Body, and how they have wielded this authority as representatives of the Slave Class without any communication with their anointed fellow christians. This was indeed a major source of doubt for me, and one of the many things that led to my eventually “awakening” from my indoctrination. The obvious disparity gave me the courage I needed to research my beliefs more objectively.

Now that the Governing Body has so brazenly swept aside their anointed colleagues and stripped them of any significance whatsoever in the dissemination of truth to God’s people, I feel there may be a backlash from thinking Jehovah’s Witnesses who were already harboring serious doubts but who will now feel “enough is enough”.

There are only so many lies and deceptions that you can load up on an intelligent human being and ask them to take seriously and base their entire life upon before something snaps. Eventually these falsehoods become too numerous and too hard to believe, and (as happened in my case) an individual will finally decide they have had enough. I believe this may happen on a considerable scale with Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world once this new teaching becomes widely known.

More Witnesses may leave the organization as they realize that the Society’s teachings are becoming increasingly ludicrous

Added to the already considerable downsizing in the organization caused by a slowdown in global growth, it may be that before long we will start to see the number of publishers enter negative growth as those who are already mentally on the fringes start to leave the organization in droves. Only time will tell whether the new teaching will play a significant role in this likely exodus, but the downsizing of the organization has already begun, and I certainly don’t believe this new teaching will improve matters for the Society.

Over the years the Governing Body has grown increasingly arrogant and out-of-touch. You can only hide those sorts of attributes for so long before they become plain for all to see. For a while I entertained thoughts of new brothers being gradually added to the Governing Body who would see through the lies and do the honest and humble thing by admitting that they do not enjoy God’s blessing and eventually dissolving the organization – thereby setting millions of misguided worshippers mentally free. However, the more I observe the frequency with which the Governing Body is making mistakes both doctrinally and procedurally (particularly in relation to handling child abuse), the more I feel that the future of the organization will be irretrievably jeopardized far more quickly and effectively if the existing members are allowed to continue undisturbed in their obvious self-importance and ineptitude.

 

 

 

 

 

Summaries of this article are available in the following languages: Hungarian | German.

A PDF of notes taken at the Annual Meeting is now available, and can be downloaded by clicking here.

Please read my follow-up article by clicking here.

440 thoughts on “Governing Body says: “We are the Faithful and Discreet Slave!”

  • November 28, 2012 at 2:58 am
    Permalink

    The Disclaimer – How Lies Can Masquerade as Truth

    Read the full text at:

    http://www.gocomics.com/nonsequitur

    and have a laugh.

    You might also want to look back at the strips of the previous couple of days

    Wiley Miller has a very good handle on how this whole “religion” thing works. And have a great day, guys

  • November 28, 2012 at 2:09 pm
    Permalink

    So they’ve copied the Catholic Churches teaching with the Pope , when he sits ” ex Cathedra” he is infallible and Gods channel of communication ;-) ..so in essence when they sit in council as a collective they are the FDS or Gods channel ..What a con job!

  • November 28, 2012 at 7:16 pm
    Permalink

    So I am interested in reading
    Crisis of Conscience by Raymond Franz so I go onto Amazon.com and find out it is selling for an outrageous price!! $900 for brand new!! and starting at $99.95 for used!!!
    Does anybody know why? Just wondering since I would really like to read this book.
    I’m going to try to find it at my local library.
    Here’s a link to amazon
    http://www.amazon.com/Crisis-Conscience-Raymond-Franz/dp/0914675249/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1354154704&sr=1-1&keywords=raymond+franz

  • November 28, 2012 at 7:40 pm
    Permalink

    Go to Amazon and under Cindy Franz you can get the book for under $30.00. I don’t know why it doesn’t come up but I have bought 5 copies from her. I don’t understand who in the world thinks someone will pay $900 for a $30.00 book.

  • November 28, 2012 at 8:18 pm
    Permalink

    MsD: go to the jwstruggle website and you can read both of Franz’ books online or download them

  • November 29, 2012 at 12:32 am
    Permalink

    MsD – Here is a link where you can read Crisis of Conscience online or download it for a small fee.
    [link removed]

    Cedars

  • November 29, 2012 at 8:21 am
    Permalink

    JimmyG
    Later on at that same assembly day, there was a talk that included the praising of the GB- how they feed us, we need them to explain the bible for us, we don’t know who they are yet they are working on our behalf……… Listening to it made me feel like puking.

    Yes … At the one day assembly I went to the visiting speaker from bethel also sang the praises of the GB saying how ‘we need the faithful slave’. It made me cringe in my seat !!!

  • November 29, 2012 at 11:30 am
    Permalink

    Thank you so much for the info guys. Looking forward to reading it!

  • December 2, 2012 at 4:19 pm
    Permalink

    Is there any significance to the jwdotorg site’s news section keeping the term faithful and discreet slave inside quotation marks? Is this slave group now a powerful “concept” of authority without actual answerable individuals? There was no FDS authority when the FDS was comprised of the entire anointed remnant. No teeth. The GB were its teeth. Mabe quoting Jesus is designed to constantly remind WTS members of a concept of authority. A type of sovereignty, a WTS right to rule over members, a deeper grip in mind control.

  • December 2, 2012 at 7:08 pm
    Permalink

    Hi William. I once saw quotation marks around a WT publication’s calling the UN the “the disgusting thing that causes desolation.” This was right in the period when the WTS belonged to the UN as an NGO. No marks for guessing why quotation marks were used here. Oh, and it probably answers your question. Yes, I agree, when it comes to the responsibility that comes with ultimate earthly authority, the GB show themselves lacking.

    Take using “Jehovah’s Witnesses” as a rhetorical human shield when appealing the Conti child abuse case. The same has happened with the box in the January Watchtower that excuses serial attempts to predict the End. Again “Jehovah’s Witnesses” are responsible for the false predictions.

    Frank 2

  • December 2, 2012 at 10:26 pm
    Permalink

    The Truth Agenda is predictable patterns in psychology in which they use to satisfy all levels of members. The low level spiritual food eaters need the basics reinforced often to feel satisfied and content. The thinkers need complex theories and equations that baffle other members but keep these ones happy nibbling on. The doers want action and goals to attain. They love interaction and socializing with others to keep them motivated and engaged through activities such as field ministry, talks or group gathering outside the local Kingdom Halls. They embrace a variety of cultures in order to further give the members a feeling of unification globally. The unified doctrine which all share further reinforces to all members they share something in common. These are just a handful of tactics they have used in order to keep members engaged. The members are the core and by giving a new publication or a new talk by a representative from headquarters always gets them excited for what is to come next. The headquarters uses anticipation as a key ingredient for their members. I was always anticipating new publications or viewing the new dramas at the assemblies. I love all of it and would do it all over again but for me the change in doctrine made me realize i personally was going another path and for me that was somewhere else. I am not here to rant or rave about doctrine or persuade anyone towards any ways of thinking. I support Cedar when he allows us an outlet to share with one another. If this organization reformed and embraced an honest and clear doctrine that was unchanging over the years that was not outdated regularly, I would rejoin again but I always have hope that one day things change. I understand mistakes are made and we all fall short so if the GB reads this comment I forgive you but does Jehovah is the question?

    • December 3, 2012 at 1:10 pm
      Permalink

      There must be repentance before forgiveness. Note Jesus’ words on repentance at Matthew 3:8 and in a concordance on how this word (also ‘repent’ etc) is used. The first words that both Jesus and John said as they began preaching was ‘repent’. Matthew 3:2 and 4:17. Repentance is a gift from God. Some will never repent. Jesus already judged the religious leaders of his generation, because they ‘were none of my sheep’. John 10:26.
      This is not my personal view but what the Bible teaches on repentance. So, before any of JW leaders can repent, we need to pray that God would grant repentance to them, to give them ‘eyes to see and ears to hear’. Even among Chrisitans we see the need of repentance as a requesite for our forgiving them. See Luke 17:3 I hope this helps!

  • December 3, 2012 at 7:08 pm
    Permalink

    Magusknight1974, Yes, the GB of the WTS trades off religious unity against human cost every time. Their application of psychology is not to be argued with. How much they have applied human ‘wisdom’ to date to achieve this ‘unity’ will have to be accounted to the highest authority. Those with greater responsibility will have greater judgement.

    Frank 2

  • December 9, 2012 at 7:27 am
    Permalink

    Wow, I spat my coffee when I heard about the doctrinal change. Most witnesses in the back of their minds knew that practically the governing body has been the slave for years and this has made it official. What’s concerning is that this seems like a move to consolidate power in the hands of the few.

    Where are the checks and balances? Anyone even a long time serving anointed questioning a teaching will be shutdown. Power over so many in the hands of the few within the confines of Brooklyn – decisions by a handful of white American males. I was thinking the organisation will be moving towards a move inclusive system but is getting more and more closed and controlled.

    • December 9, 2012 at 12:48 pm
      Permalink

      Jesus said the sheep would know his voice, and follow him. So a genuinely faithful slave would humbly serve his master’s interests, lovingly feed the Lord’s sheep with real spiritual food from the master’s table, and be confident that the Master, on returning, would appreciate and recognize the slave’s labors and reward accordingly.

      So . . . why is this WT Society slave so pre-occupied about his own interests? With directing attention to himself?

      Is he fearful? Conscious that the ‘domestics’, sick and tired of a century and more of ersatz spiritual food, are now realizing that the real food from the master was there all along – in their own bibles.

      When the early witnesses met Catholics, they were always quick to make the point that the householder didn’t need help from the priest to understand the Bible. Methinks many of those folk are realizing that the WT Society just replaced the priest – with the Governing Body.

  • December 9, 2012 at 3:06 pm
    Permalink

    I believe you are so right Frank. The GB and prior Watch Tower teachings would have us believe they were the channel of communication between Heaven and Earth. The Bible was all we needed. Watch Tower led us to believe we couldn’t understand the Bible without their help. Catholicism had many to believe they didn’t need the Bible at all. Both organizations have used mind control to sway its masses through deceit.

  • December 11, 2012 at 6:09 pm
    Permalink

    We know it is very difficult to penetrate the mindset of a typical Jehovah’s Witness with any insightful information contrary to Watch Tower Society teachings. Therefore, I believe a mission to inform and equip the general population to ask the right questions when approached by members of the Watch Tower Society corporation is necessary. The right questions, posed to the hard core as well as casual members, concerning the meaning of the Governing Body’s latest doctrine changes, may help current Jehovah’s Witnesses think beyond the normal canned reasoning and reach them in a way no ex-Jehovah’s Witnesses ever could.

  • December 11, 2012 at 6:44 pm
    Permalink

    I made up a list some years ago of questions designed specifically for JW’s. I would suggest using one at a time. Do not bombard them. It’s better they leave with one clear question than to try to cover too much ground. You will go in circles! So, here are some of the questions I use. (And I train members of my church to use these) I titled these “Questions on Salvation” (Scripture to use in parenthesis) What did the death of Jesus Christ accomplish? – 1 Corinthians 15:3 1 John 1:7 How many sins did Jesus die for? (1 John 1:7 Titus 1:14)
    What does it mean to be ‘saved’? (Matthew 3:7 Romans 5:9)
    Are we saved by our works? (Ephesians 2:8, 9 Titus 3:4-7)
    Are we saved by our good works? (Ephesians 2:8, 9 Titus 3:4-7)
    Are you saved? (Acts 2:38 Romans 10:17, 20 1 John 2:3-6)
    Do we HAVE eternal life NOW if we are saved? (1 John 5:11, 12 John 5:24)
    Ask the JW to read the text. Let them answer. Kindly insist that they stay on the text and not ignore it. You can say,’you didn’t answer this question’. Be loving. Don’t argue. Pray silently for the Lord to bless your witness! Ernie

  • December 11, 2012 at 7:45 pm
    Permalink

    You’re right Ernie about insisting the JW stay on the Bible text and on the question. I’ve asked a question to one of Jehovah’s Witnesses as to whether she wanted my wife to become a member of her organization when I overheard the signs of recruitment. The Jehovah’s Witness’es response was, “let me ask you a question”. I asked her why does she make the of knowing the name Jehovah so important. She responded with a question, “What can be more important than knowing God’s name is Jehovah”. I said “Jesus ransom sacrifice”. I continued, “I called on the name of Jesus the other day when I felt chest pains and I got relief without saying Jehovah”. The JW asked me if mabe I thought it could be a “coincidence?” I let her know I didn’t think so and I believe Jesus as well as Jehovah is powerful enough to acknowledge my cry for help.

    Please be aware the Witnesses are tpically programmed to ask a question when asked a question.

    Also, one of the most difficult things for me to overcome as a new ex-Jehovah’s Witness in 2005 was independent research of the Watch Tower Society corporation. I would get this uneasy feeling while surfing the internet. This uneasyness was due to the intense mind control associated with dependence upon and trust in the Watch Tower Society corporation. The Society’s recommendation to “beware of independent thinking” had taken a tremendous toll on me.

    • December 12, 2012 at 2:19 am
      Permalink

      William I too reacted the same way, when I left. I really felt that I should not read anything against the Watchtower. It took me ages to get the courage to read ‘ Crisis of Conscience’ by Ray Franz.
      Once I had taken the plunge, I was then able to move on with my life, but as you say, it really shows the mind control they have over their members.

  • December 12, 2012 at 3:17 am
    Permalink

    Hello William. As an older man you are aware of the lessons of the Nuremberg Trials, after 1945. The defense of some was, “I was just following orders”. This proved to be no defense, because each person has a conscience. As Alan mentioned even one of the Governing Body, Ray Franz. Had to let his Bible trained conscience be his guide in his service of his heavenly Father, and his Lord Jesus Christ.

    A word about independent thinking. The dictionary says, not subject to bias or influence. In other words when a Christian is trained to stand on his own two feet, he knows his Master well. And can identify a course that is leading away from his Masters instructions. So what is he to do but follow his Master, as the early Christians said, they must obey God, rather than man. When the two conflict.

    It is difficult for the Watchtower Governing Body to understand how people can not bend the knee to error, it appears they require blind obedience, not independent thinking. The problem is the Governing Body need to go back over their history and take off the rose colored glasses, and understand the damage they have done to thousands of people spiritually who have left because of false dates etc. When something is wrong, common sense tells us all, it is time to leave. In fact the scriptures tell us to leave if we do not wont to be part of the wrong. The Nuremberg trials are an example of this.

    The scriptures tell us to draw close to God, and he will draw close to you. What more do we need! Jesus assures us our heavenly Fathers knows what we need before we ask him, and he provides whatever that is. We never walk alone. Personally I have more interest in my fellowman now and interchange with him or her with more fellow feeling. Throw the report card out the window. [ Let your left hand not know, what your right hand is doing.] Our heavenly Father reads our hearts, and rewards accordingly.
    All the best with your endeavours William.

  • December 12, 2012 at 9:15 am
    Permalink

    Hi William,

    Deciding to do independent research must have been the toughest hurdle you and many others have faced. At least now you can begin to move on, and hopefully you’ll one day be able to help others do the same. It’s the fact that they always “recommend” these control methods that disturbs me most, because forcing someone to do something usually results in them not wanting to do it, but if they “recommend” it, then a person is far more likely to obey and irrational fear of thinking independently will take hold over time. Very subtle mind control indeed. It really is a steep learning curve and a gradual process, but it sounds to me like you’re going the right way about it, and you have the support of millions worldwide. Keep up the good work!

    Kind regards,

    DB

  • December 14, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    Permalink

    Cedars, would you mind my posting the link to Robert King’s analysis of the new Watch Tower/Governing Body doctrine change?

    • December 18, 2012 at 3:30 pm
      Permalink

      Hi William, sorry for the delay in replying. Thanks for asking.
      I’d rather not post a link if you don’t mind. After having a quick glance at his articles, Robert seems to think Christ’s words about the faithful and discreet slave are more than just a parable. I’m concerned that if any Witnesses were to read his analysis, they might just end up even more confused. If I’m wrong in that conclusion, please let me know.

      Cedars

  • December 16, 2012 at 4:18 pm
    Permalink

    FrankNo December 16, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    “Hi LonelySheep. What I’m about to say should be the final nail in the coffin for 1914 on the Gregorian Calendar for the end of the Gentile Times.

    For me, the paradox lay in the knowledge that 907,200 days IS the actual time that had gone by since 607 CE (the date peculiar to the WTBTS for the Fall of Jerusalem). By this equation this is a fact about the TIME that has passed. Here’s where the sleight-of-hand comes in:

    When your elder tells you that the 2520 years are up in “1913/1914,” the information is misleading. What the hearer assumes is that this is a Gregorian calendar year(s). What you’re hearing actually is one thousand nine hundred and fourteen LUNAR YEARS that have passed since 607 CE.

    When the equation is expressed in a WTBTS publication it is always written as a GREGORIAN solar equation. To accept this equation we are obliged to add 5.25 days per year to make the conversion. Obviously, we can’t do this if we are to accept the TIME COVERED as being in lunar years (360 days – a universally-accepted average to express the differing cycles of the moon lunar Jewish lunar year).

    Therefore 2520 lunar years DID NOT come out at 1914 on the Gregorian calendar. Based on this religious equation the ‘end of the Gentile Times’ came in 1878 CE on the GREGORIAN calendar. It is therefore misleading to switch calendars for the outcome of this prophecy.

    FV”

    From: http://thegoverningbody.org/1975-happened-in-1889-do-the-math/

  • December 17, 2012 at 12:42 am
    Permalink

    Frank, I think you meant to say, “What you’re hearing actually is two thousand five hundred and twenty LUNAR YEARS (not 1914 lunar years) that have passed since 607 BCE (not CE).

  • December 17, 2012 at 1:03 am
    Permalink

    Correction understood, JimmyG. What’s hard to understand is why so few are getting the potential ramifications of this realisation. We now know not only that the prophetic books have been cooked (as if we hadn’t guessed already), but also what the power of indoctrination feels like. We see what we have been taught to see, like a magician’s illusion.

    With the End of the Gentile Times concluding in 1878 CE (according to the long-standing equation) where does this now leave 1919 CE? Russell was only going to print the first edition of the Watchtower in 1879!

    We’ve been had.

    FV

  • December 17, 2012 at 1:12 am
    Permalink

    That point is so true Frank. I still can’t believe that I never saw it at the time when I was a witness. I would really like to know how any JW can answer this point. You either use lunar days for both calculations or solar. You cannot mix both, just to suit your beliefs.

  • December 17, 2012 at 4:19 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Alan. If you are the Alan who comments on thegoverningbody.org you will be aware that I wrote 2 articles challenging the WTS’s chronology both on 1914 CE and 1975 CE using the correct equation regarding lunar-day years.

    I am so glad Lonelysheep asked his/her elder about my calculations as it raised another mighty aspect of organised religion. Here’s a partial copy-and-paste:

    “(1) If you count the days from 607 to year 1 we get 218,520 days. (607 x 360)

    (2) Take this figure from the total number of days (907,200) we have remaining 688,680

    (3) Now divide the sum from calculation 2 by 360 (ie 688,680) and that brings us to 1913 or 1914 accounting for no year 0

    So based on this, the Societies (WTS’s) figures are correct!!!!!”

    http://thegoverningbody.org/1975-happened-in-1889-do-the-math/

    The one absolute thing here is that 907,200 days equals 2520 x 360 days. This is the TRUE length of the Gentile Times (based on WTS’s own equation). It is simply impossible for it to end at 1914 on the Gregorian Calendar (the one in current use in the West). The time runs out in 1878 CE.

    Lonelysheep’s experience teaches how we’ve all been had. It is a triumph of indoctrination that when an elder tells us that from 1 CE to 1914 CE is 1914 and we naturally take the latter to be an actual Gregorian solar date, not 1,914 360-day lunar years! Without thinking, the hearer falls into the trap of ‘distraction,’ meaning that 1914 CE though constant repetition is ingrained in us so that we salivate when ‘the master’ ‘rings the bell’ (Pavlov’s dog). I doubt even the elder had clicked on to this.

    What I would like to recommend, if Cedars is agreeable, for him to set up a new article on this subject and allow all who are loyal to this chronology to vent and support why they will remain in supporting the mythologised year of 1914 CE.

    Thanks Alan

    FV (Frank 2)

  • December 17, 2012 at 8:08 pm
    Permalink

    These are interesting points being made and worth looking into.

    The book of Daniel refers to the seven times, or gentile times.
    Using a day for a year. [Book of Numbers] The lunar Jewish year being 360 days X 7 = 2520 years.

    If we begin this time period starting 607 BCE we arrive at 1914 in Jewish lunar years. Which is not 1914 using the Gregorian calender because of more days, 365 to one year.[ not 360]

    Gregorian calender 365 days X 2520 = 919800 days

    Jewish calender 360 days X 2520 = 907200 days
    -_____________
    We have a difference of……………….. 12600 days in the Gregorian calender. By dividing 360 into 12600 we have 35 more
    Jewish years. From 1914 less 35 = 1879.

    These figures will be different when taking into account the Lunar calender being consistent from start to finish, 2520 years calculated.

    The Julian solar Calender started in 45 BC.

    The Gregorian solar calender started in 1582 CE by Pope
    Gregory X111 .

    So the above figures will alter depending when Lunar and Solar years are intermingled over history. However this is well worth looking into because of the fact a Lunar Jewish calculation is not the same as a Solar Gregorian calculation.

    The Scriptures refer to the Lunar calculation.

  • December 17, 2012 at 11:19 pm
    Permalink

    Of course, then there is the lunisolar calendar. I know nothing of this yet. Could this account for the 36.2 Gregorian solar years between 1878 CE and 1914 CE?

    The purpose seemed to be the reconcile the lunar calendar with the solar calendar.

    Perhaps someone can enlighten me.

    FV

  • December 17, 2012 at 11:22 pm
    Permalink

    Hi Willows. Don’t forget to minus 1 year to acknowledge no year zero in the Roman calendar.

    FV

  • December 18, 2012 at 12:08 am
    Permalink

    When calculating the numbers from say 607 to 1914, it adds up to 2521 years. However today we are in the year 2012 yet the year is not complete till the end of December. To say it as it is, would be 2011 and so many days. Likewise 607 would be 606 and so many days [in the year of 607] plus 2520 comes to 1914 and so many days. Depending on which day you start and finish. Using the Lunar calculations brings us to not 1914 in the Gregorian calender but in the year of 1879. Or 1878 and so many days. That’s the way I work it out.

    The Watchtower need to enter the debate and explain how they started out with Lunar years and finished in Solar years. When the calculations began in scripture it was given in Jewish time Lunar. They just may have to go back and agree with Russell’s earlier work. That makes 1919 a problem to explain.

  • December 18, 2012 at 12:59 am
    Permalink

    Hi Frank, yes I am the same Alan or comments on the gov body articles. I also comment on JWN, JWrecovery, and the Topix JW forum. Since leaving the org, 16 years ago I have found out so much, that I had no idea about as a JW. So the 607BCE subject is so important for JWs to understand properly.
    The big, big problem all ex witnesses have is to be able to get this information accepted by a witness. The mind control is so great, that the moment we show anything different to what they have been taught, the shutters immediately go down.
    Over the years I have learnt to take it very slowly when talking to a witness, but it is so hard when we know that the vast majority of what they have been taught is totally false.
    All we can do is exactly what Cedars and others are doing, dealing with one subject at a time, and making it clear as crystal to anyone reading the article.

  • December 18, 2012 at 2:35 am
    Permalink

    A little browsing on the internet shows that far too many people have attempted to forecast all sorts of events, based on calculations using texts drawn from the Bible. Naturally the books of Revelation and Daniel attract the most interest. And no-one has ever got anything right. God has a great sense of humor! Can’t you hear Him laughing?

    As one forthright woman told the hapless publisher who tried to “explain” the WT interpretations to her: “Lady – this is a joke – you need to get a life.”

    The whole process reminds me of people who don’t understand accounting, but have to solve an accounting problem. So they are reduced to “trial and error” methods, hoping to “get lucky”. All they demonstrate is their total lack of qualifications. And that they are NOT the people to trust with your finances.

    Come to think of it, the whole relevance of 1914 is as a starting point of the “generation” of Luke 21:32. So – let’s consider the word Generation.

    The basic meaning is that ‘generation’ describes the people WHO ARE ALIVE at a particular time period, and thereby share common experiences.

    So, although I knew my grandfather and listened to him talk about his experiences in the trenches during the Great War, I am very clearly NOT of my grandfather’s generation. Nor am I part of my uncle’s generation (he fought in the Second World War). And – frankly, ANY OTHER INTERPRETATION IS SIMPLY DISHONEST – playing with words to prove a point, but in so doing altering the very meaning of the word itself. The WT ‘explanation’ of ‘overlapping’ generations is simply twisted reasoning at its worst – and, coming on top of all their so very cocksure previous ‘explanations’ and calculations (remember 1914 + 1 generation = 1975) it simply makes a laughing-stock of the whole business. But, then, desperate people resort to desperate doings.

    So, as this year we call 2012 draws to a close – the WTS can calculate and recalculate as much as they like – but the fact remains – the GENERATION OF 1914 HAS PASSED AWAY.

    Notice, in passing, Jesus did NOT say that one or two dozen extremely long-lived members of the ‘generation’ would still be alive – his words can only have one meaning – the generation – the group as a whole – would still be alive. As in the 1st century – the majority of the people alive at the time of his death were still around to see the end of Jerusalem in 70CE.

    PS: at one time there were rumours that the WTS were going to shift attention to 1935 as the ‘starting point’ for the ‘generation’ – in effect buying themselves an extra 21 years. Yes – that’s how insecure the whole thing is. They just don’t really know.

    Blind guides, stumbling round in the dark.

  • December 18, 2012 at 2:53 am
    Permalink

    When the Jews were is exile in Babylon. How did Daniel work out how years they would be away from their homeland. [Remember the Lamentations, ” by the river Babylon. “]

    The book of Daniel Chapter 9 verses 1 & 2, says, “In the first year of Darius the son of Ahasuerus, of the seed of the Medes, which was made king over the realm of the Chaldeans; In the first year of his reign I Daniel understood by books the number of the years, whereof the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah the prophet, that he would accomplish seventy years in the desolations of Jerusalem.”

    The Jews by Moses entered into a binding agreement of the blessing and the malediction. They would obey the commandments and receive a blessing. If they disobeyed they would receive the malediction. Part of the Law was to keep the sabbath, a day of rest. Work six days, rest on the seventh. The land also was required rest every seventh year. No crops grown.

    Reading the history of the Kings of Israel, they rebelled against the commandments and a day of reconciliation came, the malediction. The Israelites were removed from the land of Israel
    so the land could have its sabbath. Daniel had worked out the number of years being seventy. And true to the day they were released from captivity in Babylon seventy years after they were removed from Israel.

    What this shows is Daniel was able to work out the number of years they would be away from their homeland by examining the records.

    When the Gentle times are calculated, a lesson in history tells us to calculate according to the formula given in Scripture. When it gives lunar calculations, do not allow solar calculations into the equation. The Watchtower need to explain how they arrived at the solar year of 1914 as the end of the Gentiles. Considering a solar year has 365 days and a lunar year has 360 days.

  • December 18, 2012 at 8:53 am
    Permalink

    Frank, this is so obvious to us now, and any thinking person, and yet we spent years taking in that rubbish. It was the final straw for me when we went through the Revelation book and they decided that the 7 plagues somehow had to do with exposing every part of society as something bad. And this simply because they had a particular assembly at a particular time.
    In is total mind control.

  • December 18, 2012 at 3:48 pm
    Permalink

    I enjoyed reading this blog….all the comments back and forth were entertaining and very informative….my wife is a jw and im a follower of the Almighty God…i dont belong to a religion or want to be classified in a religion…When Jesus was on this earth did he promote a religion??? Of course the answer is no…When you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior it is not a religion but a way of life…I have been married to my wife for 5 years and now and all i hear is when will i come into the Truth?? Well according to John 14:6 it says “I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except through Me”…Jesus Christ is the only Truth that i know…not a religion or organization…I have tried with failed attempts to try and persuade my wife that she is being lied to but at this point i know prayer is the only way….and God working thru me of course guided by the Holy Spirit….I hope that the ones coming to this site that have left the JW organization will find peace and be able to truly see what this life is all about….Our job as believers and followers are to speak about the Kingdom of God…thats what Jesus spoke about…not what religion you should be with….God Bless

  • December 18, 2012 at 4:22 pm
    Permalink

    StrongIsland34, it is interesting you mention you feel that your wife is being lied to.

    Last year I brought the matter of prophecy up with Internet blogger Standfirm.

    He stuck with the view that the WTS were not ‘prophets.’ I pointed out that their own view of themselves is irrelevant.

    Encarta Online Dictionary:prophet, says:

    1 somebody who claims to interpret or transmit the commands of a deity

    2 somebody who predicts the future

    3 somebody who advocates a cause or idea

    4 somebody considered to be an inspired leader or teacher

    One of Standfirm’s cronies replied to this (self-titled aservantofjehovah) in part had this to answer about the serial ongoing attempts at predicting the future of the world:

    “Nothing is wrong with making mistakes(;) not learning from them is the problem(.) Of course lies should have no part in true worship.Take for example this oft repeated lie by opposers that GB ever claimed prophetic insight.” Punctuation added.

    http://stayawake-standfirm.blogspot.co.nz/2011/09/mistakes-and-errors-what-of-it.html

    Yes, it’s true that it can be claimed that the GB never claimed prophetic insight – so why did they engage so regularly in this activity?

    Having failed every time to date to show they actually had insight, what proof is there that they therefore have authority from God? Did any of the Biblical prophets attempts ever fail to come true?

    ASOJ’s comment, naturally, falls flat on its face. The WTS never did learn from their mistakes. If the 36 year difference between 1878 CE and 1914 CE cannot be reconciled, their knowing this is a mismatch could be reasonably construed as an ongoing lie, couldn’t it?

    The site’s owner Standfirm shows how misled JWs can be when he attempted to reconcile the two dates”

    “StandFirmNovember 7, 2011 10:01 PM

    FV,

    The vast majority of people worldwide use the Gregorian calendar and it is used by the United Nations. But regardless, the same point in actual history can be reached in any calendar by counting 2,520 years from the year Jerusalem was destroyed, no matter how those two years are expressed.

    The reason further discussion is not permitted on this point here is because this has nothing to do with the point of the main post. If you’ll recall, that is if mistakes made by the organization preclude their being the true Christian congregation.”

    This latter paragraph surprised me as the subject was the WTS’s mistakes!

    I answered:”AnonymousNovember 8, 2011 12:50 AM

    What could you possibly mean, Standfirm? You’re claiming that the Watchtower Society makes mistakes – and so what! The fact 1914 has been RE-calculated using a SECOND calendar is evidence that a ‘mistake’ was not made!”

    Unlike my critics, I remain open-minded that a reconciliation might come. Feel free to readjust my thinking, asoj or Standfirm.

    FV (Frank 2)

  • December 18, 2012 at 4:28 pm
    Permalink

    Thanks Cedars. I appreciate the feedback on my request. Your reasoning makes sense.

  • December 18, 2012 at 4:34 pm
    Permalink

    well when i said being lied to it stems from what the God’s word says about salvation is a gift not given by works lest a man boast….The GB continues to lie and tell its believers that the only way for salvation is to work at it…or to show works to prove that you are saved….when you truly accept Jesus Christ as your personal savior your life will be changed…you will want to do what is right…your actions will portray someone who has changed ….its not a requirement for me to show proof…i will just do….i have this conversation with her all the time but nevers sinks in…

  • December 27, 2012 at 5:48 am
    Permalink

    THE BIGGER PICTURE ~ WERE DOCTRINES QUICKLY ‘ADJUSTED’ TO PROTECT FINANCES?

    A $3 Billion class action lawsuit is being launched in Australia on behalf of up to 6,160 children within the Church of Jehovah’s Witnesses. Documents relating to the class action reveal over 14,000 serious criminal breaches of mandatory child protection laws, committed against these children by elders and “ministers of religion” within the Church of Jehovah’s Witnesses over the past 4 years.

    On May 12, 2012, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses and the Church of Jehovah’s Witnesses became aware that a potential class action lawsuit was being pursued in relation to their failure to comply with the working with children laws.

    On October 6, 2012, at the Annual Meeting of Jehovah’s Witnesses, held in Jersey City, New Jersey, U.S.A., during the discourse “When Does Jesus Appoint the Slave “Over All His Belongings”?”, it was publicly announced that the worldwide Church of Jehovah’s Witnesses (the slave of Christ) has just undergone a major re-structuring of ‘doctrinal teachings’ and asset ownership, the net result being that the church now claims it no longer has billions of dollars in assets or ‘belongings’ but is, from a legal position, an unincorporated association with no assets whatsoever.

    Read more: http://www.stevenunthank.com/

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: