Reports are emerging of an announcement at the 128th Annual Meeting of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania that the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses now considers itself to be the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class of Matthew 24:45 in its entirety.
Previously it was understood that the Governing Body were merely humble “representatives” of the “Slave Class”, which comprised the 12,000 or more anointed remnant of Christians with a heavenly calling still on earth. Despite claiming to be “representatives” of this group of people, suspicions were raised in the minds of many thinking Witnesses after reading articles such as the Questions From Readers of the August 15th 2011 Watchtower, where it was admitted that the Governing Body has no actual communication with memorial partakers (the “anointed”) and even feels that some of these ones may be mentally imbalanced. (see w11 8/15 p. 22)
Many have predicted that, at some point in the future, the Governing Body would end this confusion by claiming that they themselves are the Faithful and Discreet Slave, with the anointed remnant playing no special role. According to numerous reports this has finally happened. However, this remarkable claim opens a labyrinth of fresh doctrinal puzzles that future publications must now attempt to explain.
The Annual Meeting at which this “new light” was revealed was held at Jersey Assembly Hall (The Stanley Theater), New Jersey on October 6th – the same day that a sensitive Watchtower letter was leaked on the internet.
Although I previously reported in this article that the meeting was NOT broadcast to other locations, this appears to be untrue. The meeting had a total audience of 15,514 including those watching via video link from Brooklyn, Patterson, Walkill and Canada. Some in attendance took notes of what was said during the meeting, and have leaked this extaordinary new information online, so the news is gradually spreading around the world even though this “new light” has not yet been presented officially in the publications as it normally would be. (Update: to read about the printed explanation of the “new light” in the July 15 2013 Watchtower, please click here)
Anointed demoted – Governing Body promoted
The new understanding was explained over a series of six talks delivered by various Governing Body members over a two-hour period. The purpose of the talks was to impart the following adjustments:
- The Faithful and Discreet Slave was NOT appointed at Pentecost 33CE, meaning that there has not been a continuous line of members of the Slave Class on the earth down through the ages. The Slave Class was only appointed for the first time by Christ in 1919.
- The Faithful and Discreet Slave is a small group of anointed brothers during Jesus’ presence serving at Watchtower Headquarters who are directly involved in the preparing and dispensing of spiritual food. The individual members of the Governing Body are not the Faithful and Discreet Slave. They only act as the Faithful and Discreet Slave when they are working as a collective body in making decisions regarding the dispensing of spiritual food.
- The “domestics” of Matthew 24:45 are all those who are fed spiritually by the Governing Body, whether of the anointed or “other sheep”. This includes individual members of the Governing Body when they partake of spiritual food.
- The events described in Matthew 24:46,47 now refer to Jesus coming during the Great Tribulation and giving the Governing Body their reward in heaven along with the rest of the anointed.
- The “belongings” of Matthew 24:47 refer to all of Christ’s heavenly and earthly interests.
- Despite founding the Watch Tower Society, Charles Taze Russell was not part of the Slave Class because he was not alive and serving at Headquarters when Christ made his selection in 1919. The work of Russell and his associates was like that of the “messenger” in Malachi 3:1.
- The cleansing of God’s people is ongoing because, apparently, the bible gives two accounts of Christ doing a “cleansing” work, once at the start and once at the end of his ministry
In addition to the doctrinal changes, it was also explained that:
- The Governing Body members now make decisions based on a total majority, meaning that if a doctrinal understanding does not have full agreement by all Governing Body members, it is “shelved” until a future date.
- The lecture for Gilead and Branch Schools about the Faithful and Discreet Slave being 1,900 years old has now been deleted.
It is understood that the above doctrinal changes will be explained in further detail in future Watchtower articles. However, it could potentially be months before these articles are published and then studied at congregation meetings. Reports on Annual Meetings are not normally published until the August 15th Watchtower is released in April of each year. In the meantime, many brothers will likely be confused and bewildered that the Governing Body has made such a radical departure from their previous understanding of Matthew 24:45. Still more will wonder why these dramatic adjustments were not first published in a Watchtower article so that they could be simultaneously disseminated throughout the entire organization rather than announced to a select few at a New York corporate meeting.
Anointed Christians who entertain a heavenly hope will feel particularly aggrieved at this latest humiliation. As memorial partakers they had already suffered the indignity of being labelled as potentially “mentally or emotionally imbalanced” in the aforementioned Questions From Readers article of the August 15th, 2011 Watchtower. In the same article, the Governing Body bluntly dismissed the suggestion that there was any requirement on their part to contact such ones when deciding over doctrinal matters.
Now the 12,000+ crowd of anointed spread throughout the earth has suffered the final insult of being demoted as members of the Faithful and Discreet Slave in favor of eight men in New York who have deemed themselves the only ones worthy of this title. When it comes to teaching Christ’s followers, the anointed must now share equal standing with the millions of the Great Crowd as Christ’s “domestics”, even though they are supposed to rule over such ones as kings and priests with Christ at some future date.
A subtle use of words
It is noteworthy that this “new light” stops short of expressly naming “the Governing Body” as the Faithful Slave – rather a “group” of anointed brothers serving at Watchtower headquarters, which can only be applied to the Governing Body in our present day. This distinction is significant, because it acknowledges that there was no Governing Body as we know it prior to 1971 – only the Watch Tower Society Board of Directors who, as I have explained in a previous article, were informally described as a “governing body” (lower case) only from 1944 onwards.
The significance of this is that, if Christ had come to inspect the organization and appoint the Governing Body as his Faithful Slave in 1919 he would have been disappointed, because this entity would not exist as a collective decision-making body for another 52 years! However, if Christ was less specific and instead chose “a group of anointed men at Headquarters” at that time, then Rutherford as Watch Tower President and his board of subordinate directors were available to be chosen collectively as the Faithful Slave. Even if you are prepared to accept this rather bewildering explanation of Matthew 24:45 (a scripture that most people regard as a mere parable), there is one particularly problematic doctrinal flaw that the Society will need to address.
No scriptural precedent for apostolic succession
If Rutherford and his anointed associates were selected in 1919, then on what scriptural basis can it be automatically assumed that their roles as the Faithful and Discreet Slave were transferable, or could be “inherited”, by successive generations of the Board of Directors of the Watch Tower Society – which, after all, is merely a legal entity?
Part of the basis of this new understanding appears to be that Jehovah has always used a small group of people to teach and dispense spiritual food to the many, and that in the First Century it was the apostles and older men who were given this role by Christ. However, the bible provides no example of how those appointed by God to be his representatives may pass their duties on to someone else in the event of their death without God’s clear and unambiguous approval. (Numbers 27:18-20) The idea of someone inheriting someone else’s position because they have died is clearly a fleshly concept rather than a spiritual one.
True, the Kings of Israel and Judea were succeeded by their male offspring, but they played no distinct role in instructing the people. Most importantly, the arrangement of kings in Israel was not favored by God, but rather instituted to placate the Israelites who demanded a king to serve under in the same way as the nations around them. (1 Samuel 8:5-8, 19) It’s therefore inconceivable that a monarchic arrangement in which those appointed by God may choose their own successors would be a feature of “Spiritual Israel” – an institution that is not subject to the whims of humans but is of purely divine origin.
In the case of the twelve apostles appointed by Christ, once these died off they were not replaced by successors. Matthias was the only apostle “of the twelve” who wasn’t appointed directly by Jesus, but he was only appointed as a replacement of unfaithful Judas by the casting of lots. (Acts 1:23-26) The Society themselves admit that the reason for the appointment of Matthias in this manner was due to the unfaithfulness of Judas, rather than as a response to Judas’ death. As further evidence, when faithful apostle James died (as with the rest of the apostles) there is no record of any concern over whether a replacement should be appointed. Consider the following quote from the Insight book…
“Sometime during the ten days between Jesus’ ascension and the day of Pentecost it was viewed as necessary that another be selected to fill the vacancy left by Judas, not simply on the basis of his death but, rather, on the basis of his wicked defection, as the Scriptures quoted by Peter indicate. (Ac 1:15-22; Ps 69:25; 109:8; compare Re 3:11.) Thus, by contrast, when the faithful apostle James was put to death, there is no record of any concern to appoint anyone to succeed him in his position of apostle.—Ac 12:2.” – Insight On The Scriptures, Volume 1, Page 129
The Governing Body has long pointed to Christ’s apostles as a divinely approved model for their collective authority, but they have never once explained how Christ has any involvement in their individual appointment. They are now asking us to believe that Christ directly chose Joseph Rutherford and his anointed associates as his modern-day “apostles”, or Faithful and Discreet Slave, in 1919 – but they will never be able to satisfactorily explain how, once Rutherford and his associates died, the divinely appointed authority of these ones was conferred to successive generations of Watchtower leaders.
In the past, the Society was able to evade this issue with comparative ease, because they could point to the Faithful and Discreet Slave CLASS as being ever-present throughout history from Pentecost 33CE onwards (i.e. individual anointed ones were not “succeeded” by anyone on their death), with the Governing Body assuming an albeit self-appointed and symbolic role as representatives of these ones in recent times.
Now, the Society has effectively scrapped the idea of the Faithful and Discreet Slave as a “class”, and now insists that the office of the Faithful Slave was bestowed by Christ on the shoulders of Rutherford and his associates in 1919, and this office was somehow passed down to successive members of the Watch Tower Society Board of Directors until the Governing Body arrangement was introduced in 1971. Thereafter, they insist that this “succession” continued as Governing Body members died and were replaced until we arrive today at a situation where eight individuals, none of whom had even been born in 1919, are now Christ’s “Faithful and Discreet Slave”. Not only does this sound incredibly implausible – most significantly there is absolutely no scriptural precedent for things to be done by God in this manner whatsoever.
In the bible, God’s favored way of doing things has always been to appoint either an individual or group of individuals to lead his people, and once these ones died their office (or position) died with them – unless God made clear that he was handing it to somebody else. In other words, God appoints people according to their individual merits, not based on who has gone before them. There is no reason to believe that God or Christ would do a complete U-turn and now do things entirely differently, especially during times such as these when the Earth is supposed to be on the brink of falling under Christ’s millennial rule, and divinely appointed direction is said to be needed more than ever by God’s people deep in these “last days”.
It is also interesting to note that, according to reports, the Governing Body is now insisting that the organization has been in an ongoing period of “cleansing” since 1919. Whether this will be somehow used to explain the idea of succession remains to be seen. The Governing Body may try to claim that part of this ongoing “cleansing” involves Christ appointing new members of the Faithful Slave. Regardless of how they try to explain it, thinking Witnesses will wonder why Jesus Christ needs 93 years and counting, not to mention successive generations of Watchtower leaders, to cleanse his organization and impart divine truth.
A talk by Samuel Herd apparently attempted to reinforce the link between the Apostles and the Governing Body, but admitted that once these Apostles died the “restraint” was removed allowing apostasy to set in. As I have already asked in this article, how can the Governing Body justify likening themselves to every feature of the First Century apostles apart from the key characteristic whereby no apostles were replaced once they had died?
A poor choice of slave
Not only is the “successor” element of the Governing Body’s new teaching highly suspect, but prior to this new teaching questions were already being raised as to how Christ could possibly have chosen Joseph Rutherford and his associates as his approved earthly organization in 1919. There are two main reasons for this…
Spiritual Food – I have already published an article detailing how the publications of the Bible Students in circulation between 1918 and 1919 were not just partially inaccurate – they were shockingly misleading and downright fanciful in their application of scripture. There are few more obvious examples of this than the Finished Mystery, which spoke of the distance between the place where it was written and the place where it was printed as having prophetic significance, and described Charles Taze Russell as speaking from beyond the grave through its pages and supervising the “harvest work” even after his death!
In another of my articles, on InsideTheWatchtower.com, I have presented evidence of racist bigotry in the pages of early Watchtower publications both before, during and after Christ’s supposed inspection. Rutherford in particular described black men and women as a cursed “race of servants” in a Golden Age article ten years after Christ’s inspection was supposed to have taken place (see The Golden Age, July 24th 1929, page 702). Bear in mind that the Golden Age, the forerunner of today’s Awake! magazine, is still considered a vehicle of spiritual food just like any other Watchtower publication.
In summarizing the publications of the Bible Students that were in circulation during the period of Christ’s inspection in 1919, nobody put it better than former Governing Body member Raymond Franz when he said…
“A direct investigation of the publications of the Watch Tower organization in the years from 1914 to 1919 reveals none of the prudent discretion that causes a man to ‘keep his lips in check’. It would be an insult to Christ Jesus to say that he selected this organization on the basis of what it was teaching, uniquely and distinctively, as of 1919.” (Raymond Franz, In Search of Christian Freedom, page 145)
The personal character of Rutherford – I am still relatively recent in my “awakening” from the indoctrination of my upbringing as a Witness. Throughout my young life “Judge” Joseph Rutherford was frequently held aloft as a shining example of a humble servant of God, and to this day he is lauded by the Watch Tower Society as a man of great wisdom and courage. Such a depiction of him features prominently in the recent Faith In Action DVD series. Even so, the more I read about “Judge” Joseph Rutherford, the more I realize what a monstrous and vile man he truly was.
The Society’s problem with Rutherford is that, try as they may, they cannot prevent documented evidence of his questionable character from surfacing – especially since the internet has made it easier than ever before to share such information that would otherwise be hard to obtain. For example, I will shortly be publishing an article that will attempt to pull together some of the documented evidence of Rutherford’s temperament – in particular that which came to light during the libel lawsuit with Watchtower lawyer Olin Moyle between 1939 and 1940.
I will go into these matters in greater detail in my future article. However, suffice to say there is documented evidence connected with the lawsuit to suggest that:
- Rutherford allowed an atmosphere of alcoholism to prevail at Brooklyn Bethel, to the point where Bethel family members who decided to abstain from alcohol were ostracized and ridiculed.
- Rutherford was a bully, and used rude, abusive and patronizing words to humiliate Bethel workers that he disapproved of.
- Rutherford afforded himself a life of luxury with multiple residences across the United States while ordinary Bethel workers lived in cramped and squalid conditions.
- Rutherford was discriminatory in allowing one sister to get married and live in Bethel with her husband even though he had forced another brother to leave Bethel in disgrace because he chose to marry.
Added to what I have already mentioned about the racist material that was printed in Watchtower publications under Rutherford’s presidency, it seems inconceivable that Christ, who favored no race above another and encouraged his followers to be meek and humble, would choose a man of Rutherford’s bigoted and contemptible character to form part of his “original” Faithful and Discreet Slave. (Mark 9:35; 19:14) Even so, with this latest change of understanding, we are now being asked to believe that Christ not only approved Rutherford’s character, but found him and his associates the only worthy candidates out of all the humans on Earth at that time to form part of his “faithful and discreet slave”.
Fast forward to the 21st Century, and similarly we have a group of men who, despite having nowhere near as bad a reputation as Rutherford, still leave much to be desired in both humility and intelligence. As I have explained in another article, I recently started uploading videos to YouTube that focus on the words spoken from the platform by various Governing Body members.
One such Governing Body member, Anthony Morris III, boasts of disobeying orders from a superior during the Vietnam War, and even routinely calls himself “the Shoemaker” – insinuating that the guidance in his talks originates from his own wisdom rather than God’s. Anthony also uses a “monarchical ordinal” (a roman numeral) after his name to distinguish himself and honor his ancestors. Is this really one of the eight most humble men available on the Earth today for Jesus to appoint as part of his Faithful Slave?
Outstanding intelligence has never been a prerequisite for those who are used by Jehovah. Moses was not a fluent speaker, being “slow of mouth and slow of tongue”. (Exodus 4:10) Jesus’ followers were said to be unlettered and ordinary. (Acts 4:13) Even so, in an era where the ability to communicate effectively is so important, it is surprising to observe the lack of basic knowledge in certain Governing Body members.
In one talk, Anthony Morris III coined the term “thinkingest” to describe Jehovah’s people, and in another talk Stephen Lett felt compelled to explain to his audience that God’s “express will” has nothing to do with express trains, or “expresso” coffee, but simply means God’s clearly stated will. The fact that Stephen saw the need to explain this simple term, or research it for his talk, raises serious questions as to his intellectual credentials as one who is called upon to teach millions of God’s people around the world. Again, would Jesus select men who fall so desperately short with even their basic knowledge of words to communicate globally with his people (or “domestics”) out of the billions of potential candidates at his disposal?
A Predictable Change
I’ve already mentioned that some have long predicted this new change in understanding. I myself considered the possibility a few times, but I felt it would be some time before I would see the teaching actually introduced.
Interestingly, some time ago we ran a mini-survey on this website asking “Who is the Faithful and Discreet Slave?”, and 15% of the 530 who voted said they thought the term referred to the Governing Body. This well-illustrates that a good number of Witnesses are already oblivious to the matter. It also gives evidence of the cunning way in which the Society has incrementally slipped suggestions of this teaching into its publications over some time in readiness for the change.
As an example, at the 2012 Safeguard Your Heart District Convention a new brochure was released entitled Who Are Doing Jehovah’s Will Today? Page 22 of this brochure carried the heading “Who Is the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class?”, and answered the question (in part) as follows…
“They are genuine, spirit-anointed followers of Jesus. The ‘slave’ dispenses timely spiritual food to fellow worshippers of Jehovah. We are dependant upon this faithful slave class to keep giving us our ‘measure of food supplies at the proper time.'” – Luke 12:42 (Who Are Doing Jehovah’s Will Today?, p. 22)
Most people reading this paragraph before being told of the new “understanding” would fail to spot that the word “all” is crucially missing after “they are” and before “spirit-anointed followers of Jesus” in the first sentence in bold. Whether the omission of this word was deliberate is, I suppose, a matter of conjecture – but it seems more than a coincidence that, just a few months after printing this brochure, it was announced that NOT “all” spirit-anointed followers of Jesus are to be considered part of the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Supposedly, only eight individuals in Brooklyn now have this special role in God’s purpose.
What this change means
All of this is first-and-foremost about increasing power and control. By claiming that they are now the Faithful and Discreet Slave in its entirety, the Governing Body reinforces their authority over the organization and their influence over millions of Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world. Rather than, in the minds of many Witnesses, being theoretically answerable to a larger group of thousands of anointed fellow worshippers who they claim to serve as “representatives”, they are now answerable to nobody but Christ. Nobody can question their position because, just as with the Pope of the Roman Catholic Church, they can now claim their authority has been granted to them directly by God through Jesus.
Even though I understand their reasons for making this change, I believe it will cause more problems for the Governing Body than it will solve. Not only have they opened up an entirely new Pandora’s Box of doctrinal issues in their need to explain plausibly how the 1919 Faithful and Discreet Slave has magically become the Governing Body of today – there is something even more troubling that they should concern themselves with.
Many Witnesses were already baffled by the total authority assumed by the Governing Body, and how they have wielded this authority as representatives of the Slave Class without any communication with their anointed fellow christians. This was indeed a major source of doubt for me, and one of the many things that led to my eventually “awakening” from my indoctrination. The obvious disparity gave me the courage I needed to research my beliefs more objectively.
Now that the Governing Body has so brazenly swept aside their anointed colleagues and stripped them of any significance whatsoever in the dissemination of truth to God’s people, I feel there may be a backlash from thinking Jehovah’s Witnesses who were already harboring serious doubts but who will now feel “enough is enough”.
There are only so many lies and deceptions that you can load up on an intelligent human being and ask them to take seriously and base their entire life upon before something snaps. Eventually these falsehoods become too numerous and too hard to believe, and (as happened in my case) an individual will finally decide they have had enough. I believe this may happen on a considerable scale with Jehovah’s Witnesses around the world once this new teaching becomes widely known.
Added to the already considerable downsizing in the organization caused by a slowdown in global growth, it may be that before long we will start to see the number of publishers enter negative growth as those who are already mentally on the fringes start to leave the organization in droves. Only time will tell whether the new teaching will play a significant role in this likely exodus, but the downsizing of the organization has already begun, and I certainly don’t believe this new teaching will improve matters for the Society.
Over the years the Governing Body has grown increasingly arrogant and out-of-touch. You can only hide those sorts of attributes for so long before they become plain for all to see. For a while I entertained thoughts of new brothers being gradually added to the Governing Body who would see through the lies and do the honest and humble thing by admitting that they do not enjoy God’s blessing and eventually dissolving the organization – thereby setting millions of misguided worshippers mentally free. However, the more I observe the frequency with which the Governing Body is making mistakes both doctrinally and procedurally (particularly in relation to handling child abuse), the more I feel that the future of the organization will be irretrievably jeopardized far more quickly and effectively if the existing members are allowed to continue undisturbed in their obvious self-importance and ineptitude.
Summaries of this article are available in the following languages: Hungarian | German.
A PDF of notes taken at the Annual Meeting is now available, and can be downloaded by clicking here.
Please read my follow-up article by clicking here.
Would you quote the same verse to someone who left the faith of one of the churches. Of course you would not. In fact you would say the opposite like ‘it is really good you have left that faith.’ What a hypocrite. They have left your religion so they must be in the wrong. lol
Alan, Peter speaks about people who left a religion on “the path of righteousness”!
JA, I see, you are not so happy I am still coming back. Because I am exposing the lies and “counterfeit words” of apostates?
2 Peter 2:3
Sky there is no point just saying that. You have to back it up with proof positive that you are being told lies. For my part you will find everything that I say can be backed up by checking the societies own publications. If you don’t agree give us all a list of all the things we have lied about. I will wait eagily to see what you come up with.
I am well aware of what Peter said Sky. But most religions think they are righteous. But you can hardly say that JWs are on the path to righteousness. They have just lost a massive child sex abuse case that could cost them millions. Other times they have settled out of court because they were so afraid of losing the cases. The governing body have a 100% failure rate when speaking about the future. In the past they have advised against getting married, having kids, no transplants, no vaccinations, no further education. They have told their followers to not worry about putting money aside for a pension. They encouraged witnesses to sell their houses, then when their words came to nothing, it was too late for many witnesses, they had blown everything.
Is that your idea of being righteous. I think you will find it is completely the opposite.
And remember, Skyrainbow, even the Devil can quote scripture.
Frank 2
Skyrainbow, do you see the GB of JW applying this scripture, is it not a fact that they have not put the interests of abuse victims ahead of protecting the image of the organization.
James 1: 27 For, what our God and Father views as clean, pure worship is this: [providing aid] for orphans and widows when they’re in need and keeping ourselves free from the stains of this system of things.
I would like to ask too:
(1) The GB has arguably the same power or more power than the 1st century apostles, right?
(2) When one member dies another replaces him, right?
(3) Jehovah’s Witnesses are obliged not to believe in ‘apostolic succession,’ right?
Isn’t this apostolic succession?
Skyrainbow, it is not your job to expose the lies and “counterfeit words” of these so called apostates. If you learn anything in the Kingdom Hall, you will clearly know that you should leave that job to Jehovah so you will not run the risk of getting ‘infected’ from this ‘disease’.
‘That disease’ being the advice to check yourself whether you are being told the truth at the kingdom hall
Ex witnesses who post here post for a reason. That is to help individuals hear the other side. At the kingdom Hall you will never be told about anything controversial and yet it may well be all over the internet for individuals to check for themselves. Nobody is saying you must listen to ex witnesses. What is being said is to research and check things yourself, which is exactly what the bible tells you to do. The Bereons are a good example. Get your head out of the ground and use the brain that God gave you.
Apostates know that Adolf Hitler’s Propaganda Minister in Nazi Germany, Joseph Goebbels said: “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth”
Skyrainbow, have you ever heard of “theocratic war strategy”? The WTS practices this as an official policy. Read about this from President Fred Franz’s own public talk in his own words at:
http://thegoverningbody.org/jehovahs-witnesses-watchtower-theocratic-warfare/
In times of human warfare this is called Plausible Deniability. Both methods involved lies told to those who are perceived enemies.
(If you want to hear the actual recording, the hyperlink is in the transcript)
Frank 2
Sky again you are talking about lies, but you have not listed them yet. Is it you that are lying to try and make ex witnesses look bad. We need you to tell us what lies we have told.
The Watchtower has lied constantly to its members over the last 130 years. They have constantly said the end is nigh, and people have believed them. You may not call it a lie, but they had no authority at all to tell peole the end is upon us regularly over the last 130 years, when it clearly has not been. What you said about Hitler most certainly applies to the Watchtower organisation, as many of us have learnt to our cost.
Do you have eternal life now, skyrainbow? 1 John 5:11-13
No she gotta keep knocking on all those empty doors for a few more years, then she may qualify lol
Spanish bro, you raise a very interesting (and important) question. It is definitely worthy of an article. In brief, it also raises the question of how the WT Society interprets scripture to suit its own purposes. Look at Revelation 11:7 “And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ASCENDS OUT OF THE ABYSS will make war with them . . . “
Now the interesting thing. If you check the WT Society’s cross referencing, and interpretation, you will find that they match this wild beast with the one seen in chapter 13:1 – “the wild beast that ascends OUT OF THE SEA”. And, perhaps, you may wonder – how did they arrive at this interpretation?
Setting this aside for the moment, if you just read just a bit further, in chapter 17:8 you will meet “the wild beast that is about to ASCEND OUT OF THE ABYSS”.
So, naturally, you ask yourself, surely THIS is the same wild beast as in Chapter 11:7? And indeed, many independent commentators agree with you.
HOWEVER, this plain and simple, natural understanding brings down the WT Society’s house of cards.
Here’s why: Way, way back, they decided that Revelation chapter 11 was fulfilled during that period 1916 – 1919. They were the TWO WITNESSES, the imprisonment of Rutherford & associates was represented by the “killing” of those two witnesses, and their release in 1919 matched the resurrection and elevation of the two witnesses.
BUT they had a problem. Who was the WILD BEAST FROM THE ABYSS? According to the actual events, it was the American Government, who put them in jail for breaking the law. (but that’s another story, and an interesting insight on how Rutherford always looked for confrontation, mainly for the surrounding publicity). So, to return to the question: who is the best from the abyss, they decided that America represented the 7th head of the Wild beast from the Sea, (chapter 13:1) and ever since they have adjusted their cross referencing / interpretation to match.
However, events took an unexpected turn. Later on, they decided (new light) that the wild beast from the ABYSS in chapter 17:8 represents the League of Nations / United Nations.
So they have a problem. They cannot reconcile this with their earlier interpretation of Chapter 11.
Because the League of Nations / United Nations DID NOT EXIST IN 1919.
Now the crux: if they are mistaken about the Wild beast in Rev. 11:7, then their entire end time interpretation of this chapter falls to pieces. It would mean, for example, that the events of Revelation 11 are still FUTURE (again, an understanding that various commentators agree with).
It would also mean that the two witnesses are yet to be identified, and the “3 and a half day” preaching work of those two witnesses is yet to happen. (various commentators again agree).
Most tellingly, this would mean that Rutherford & Associates / WT Society have not received any token of approval. Which destroys their retroactive claim that they alone were appointed as “the faithful slave” in 1919.
Space / time doesn’t permit, but you may have noticed the Revelation 11:7 says that they are killed “when they have FINISHED their witnessing. Again, this raises many questions about the WT Society’s interpretation. In 1919, according to their own accounts, they had barely started.
Interesting, isn’t it? I picked this up while doing bible verse chain reference research on the word ABYSS. And one’s immediate question is – why does their chain break down, and skip the scripture in chapter 17:8? Is this another case of twisting the evidence to suit their needs? Time will tell.
All good points Frank, but the truth is that as every day goes by more and more holes are found in all the societies doctrines. The gov body simply make guesses at things and try to pass it off as fact. JWs do actually worship the governing body. This can be seen whenever a change comes in, the witnesses will change their own view immediately to that of the governing body. They are so in awe of it that many never check themselves to see if what they are being told is correct. However other witnesses are checking and are realizing the many doctrinal failures of the org and end up leaving the JW org. In todays enlightened world and especially now that checking something is so easy with the internet, the org will find that, yes they still bring vulnerable people in, but they are also losing many witnesses who are now checking things themselves. That is why the baptism questions these days include working with and agreeing with the org. If someone no longer believes a certain doctrine and tells others their views, they have in fact said they are no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses. So they org announce that, and the sheep accept it and shun that person for the rest of their lives, simply because they questioned a particular doctrine. It does not even matter if they are proved right in their questioning, they went against the mighty gov body so they deserve to be kicked out.
This is one sick organistion, and it deserves to go down big time and I am sure that will continue to happen over the next few years.
Cedars this “new light” will cause many to think why it took so long to see the light of day. The Faithful and Discreet Slave has always been made up of all Christs Anointed ones, chosen by God to be of the heavenly calling. This has been taught for decades and decades.
This brings to mind Jesus words at John 10:16. “And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those also I must bring, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd.”
The next announcement could be the Jews and the Gentiles are what make up the one flock.
Anything is possable now. As more and more JW doctrines and ideas are proved wrong, they scratch arround for answers. They have none. They just lurch from one lie to another.
Cedars over the years I thought that the Governing Body gathered grass root information from Circuit, District and Zone servant reports after visiting circuits, districts and zones. This information was then referred to the Faithful and Discreet Slave to act on. In order to consult together as to what spiritual food would best help these circuits, districts and zones. My understanding, it was the Governing Bodies job to consult the Anointed, the Faithful and Discreet Slave. Made up of all members of the anointed. When it became clear this was not being done.
The teaching of the Faithful and Discreet Slave became vague, like looking at something through blurred glasses.
Now this “new light” makes it more blurred because of what Proverbs 15: 22 says…”There is a frustrating of plans where there is no confidential talk, but in the multitude of counselors there is accomplishment.”
What it appears has happened, the multitude of Christs brothers, [ the anointed] were never consulted.
1 Corinthians 14:8-9…. “For truly, if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will in fact, be speaking into the air.”
This teaching of the Faithful and Discreet Slave has not been understandable from a scriptural viewpoint, past and present, like the Watchtowers teaching of the resurrection.
When leaders can not explain teachings correct the first time, they lose credibility.
Hey Willows you and Cedars will have to open up some new BRANCHES (not a very good tree joke lol)
Seriously though what has been obvious to most ex witnesses for years is now admitted by the gov body, namely that they do not consult the other supposed members of the anointed around the earth about anything spiritual. In fact many in the writing department do not even profess to be of that calling, and yet they write the articles with the gov body members just signing that they have seen it and approved it.
According to Ray Franz providing a majority approve of the article it goes into print and becomes part of JW law.
So much is being discussed online about this religion, they are having to come clean about all sorts of things they would much rather keep quiet about. In todays imformation age everything they say gets scrutanised and exposed if it is not true. Don’t you just love it?
Frank, if I have the choice between the strategy of a war criminal (repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth, as apostates do) and the strategy of a devote servant of Jehovah, I’ll know what to choose.
Sky you are making a fool of yourself now. You have been asked several times to list the lies that are being told on here, and so far we have had nothing from you. Everything thet ex witnesses say can be backed up with proof. Why can you not do the same?
Hi Willows – good post.
You know, this idea (that Brooklyn were in contact with the Anointed, and consulted on important issues) was no “urban myth”. I got this “straight from the horse’s” mouth from various well placed people, back in the 60s and early 70s. Back then, you could even meet circuit overseers and missionaries who partook. I know of one Anointed brother who was in contact with Brooklyn. Can’t say whether this was formal or informal. He invariably received ‘advance’ copies of new publications. Most certainly do know he did not see a pre-publication draft of the Revelation Climax 1st release, as he discussed several “grey areas” with me. One thing I can say with certainty – there was a huge fight over ‘controlling” him toward the end of his life. Almost as if certain people wanted to “own” him. Maybe the less said the better, but it was a time of great heartache to good people who had loved and cared for him for many years, as they were shunted aside. It’s not difficult to spot the Watchtowerites – they beat up the people trying to be real Christians.
But, to return to the topic. After the 1975 debacle, the anointed became more and more “invisible” as attention shifted to the GB. The memorial arrangements became more ritualistic, eliciting puzzlement from most new interest who went along to “observe”.
So – either I was being fed stories, and there never was any real communication between the anointed and Brooklyn, or, Brooklyn has decided it no longer needs them. And they face the anomaly of increasing numbers of partakers, so they don’t quite know who is the ”real McCoy”.
Some interesting analogies – Athaliah usurping power to become Judah’s only reigning queen, and the account in Esther, where Haman plots to do away with “all the Jews”. Time will tell. Right now, when one considers how many times the WT Society has pushed ahead with ill-founded predictions, Samuel’s words to Saul clearly apply: “pushing ahead, and presumptuousness, is the same as divination”.
Think about this. I have never yet met any so-called “apostate” who has “pushed ahead”, made predictions of his own, or set himself up in opposition to the WT Society. The majority (and Ray Franz is a good example) simply left because they could no longer stand what was being done “in God’s Name”.
It’s interesting, Skyrainbow, that you talk about Hitler’s lies. How do you define ‘lies’?
Encart Online Dictionary calls a lie:”to say something that is not true in a conscious effort to deceive somebody.”
Would you accept the word of a scientist, Skyrainbow?
“If you ask what actually motivates my atheism, for example, to come on to a Christian show like this, I think it was my encounter with the Jehovah’s Witnesses because they produced a book called Life – How did it get here, by Creation or Evolution, which contains a huge pack of falsehoods. I mean, I’m sure that the people distributing that book, I suspect many of them are very sincere; they sincerely believe what’s written in that book. But if you look at the things in that book and trace it back and look at what the original scientists actually said, you can see the book misquotes them terribly. So, the knowledge that religion, or some religious people, were actively distorting what scientists believe, it led me to see a lot of religious people as being victims of that propaganda, and that’s one thing that really kind of motivates me.”
– Atheist scientist Robert Stovold – “The Big Questions in Science and Religion,” Unbelievable, July, 2008
If you want to hear the interview between Keith Ward (theistic evolutionist) and Stovold, go to Unbelievable (Premier Christian Radio) and find it. Alternatively iTunes will have it under podcasts. If requested, I’ll supply the site.
If you want to hear more about the Society’s methodology, go to:
http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/notes-on-francis-hitching-and.html
This is the tip of the iceberg.
Oh, and by the way, it ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses didn’t publish the book, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society did.
Allan you mentioned Ray Franz. My impression of this man, an honest and open mind, not afraid to say things as they are.
Respectful, giving credit where it was due. And exposing wrong teachings that troubled him. In a way that showed a balanced mind. He has peace now, he let his conscious be his guide. Cedars mentioned Olin Moyle, another man who was not afraid to say things as they are, an interesting read.
New to the site but very interesting indeed
If anyone is interested…the WT&BT$ just released their updated information regarding the ‘Governing body’ on their official website, under the heading ‘news’ then the subheading of ‘events’ then click on annual meeting
So it is true what has been reported on this blog, that the organisation are now saying that FADS were appointed in 1919, when Jesus chose them out of all the others who claimed they were the true religion.
As ‘Upset at Watchtower’ has just stated above the ‘new light’ is now on the societies website.
They can now say that Charles Russell was not a member of the FADS. In other words God’s spirit was not working through this man, which is why he made so many mistakes.
Since the internet age it has been easy to see the things that Charles Russell taught. Ex witnesses have been saying for ages that Russell would be disfellowshipped several times over for all the false thing he claimed were from God.
So now the gov body have only to defend Rutherford. In one foul swoop they can dismiss a lot of their early false doctrines.
By doing this they hope they can deflect all the bad comments about their early history.
Unfortunately for them, the last 93 years has equally been filled with wrong thoughts, conclusions and guesses.
All they have done is limit the damage the past has had for them.
This is a further reinforcement of the 1919 date and claim to divine appointment as the only religious organization representing God and Christ with no FDS before then. If the 1919 date is not sustainable then the authority of the now 8 members of the FDS to interpret scripture and direct 7 million JW’s is brought into question. Don Cameron in Captives of a Concept shows conclusively the 1919 claim to be a myth, but if a claim is repeated often enough for long enough it becomes an accepted truth to JW’s even though in reality it is untrue. Check out Cameron’s Captives of a Concept web site, if you are a JW reading this will you have the courage to read this book? If you do so it may help you towards developing a relationship with and truly accepting Christ as your saviour for he is “the way, the truth and the life” John 14:6. He is the mediator with God, there is no need for a controlling governing body.
I’m reading the book “Witness” by Whittaker Chambers about the Communist infiltration in the US State Dept, etc in the 1930’s, and Chambers was a Communist who became a Chrisitan and testified before a committee on UnAmerican Activities about this. His book would constantly remind me of the brain washing tactics used by JW’s! Communists know how this works. And so does anyone who wants to control people, whether it is in politics, religion or education. They all do this. I highly recommend this book to read as it is excellent for any JW or ex JW and shows hope dispite all we have gone through. The larger question though, is, this: It is not enough to know what is error. We also must know truth. Otherwise we are never moving out of anger and despair to hope and trust in Christ. Christ had nothing to do with JW’s beliefs. He is ‘the way, the truh and the life’ -John 14:6 True recovery and healing are to be found in Jesus Christ as our Lord, God and Saviour.
Reading all the comments here reminds me of the dog that bites the masters hand that has always fed him.
I never understood why JWs need de-programming until recently. You are the perfect case-in-point, Skyrainbow. Better watch the thought-police don’t find out about your curiosity on this site.
Skyrainbow: Do you pray for us?
If the master was feeding him poison he deserves to be bitten, don’t you think?
Ernest, I pray for sincere persons who are deceived by the lobby of apostates.
Hi Skyrainbow,
Your empty platitudes are starting to sound really tired now. Although I feel sorry for ex-JW’s, at least they are honest enough to admit and deal with their problems, whereas you and many other JW’s will probably live in denial for the rest of their lives. After going on many, many websites I’ve noticed that die-hard JW’s like you often call themselves sugar-coated names: “Happy in the Truth”, “Smiling JW”, and my personal favourite: “Sunshine”. Ironically, it’s interesting that the names they’ve chosen are similar to yours Skyrainbow, but never quite fit their behaviour and attitude towards others… overcompensating for something perhaps?
Hi Ernest,
You make some very interesting points there. I’ve often wondered if the Watchtower’s/JW’s use of indoctrination techniques and other high control methods, as well as an intolerance for others, is why they have so much trouble in Russia and other communist/ex-communist countries. Although Russia is largely a lot more democratic now they probably can’t fully escape their communist past, so if anyone recognises the high-control techniques the WTS uses, then it’ll be the Russians, as they used these control methods on their people in the past.
Yes DB, we are very happy, with a positive attitude, always smiling and with appreciation for the sunshine. You know why? You find the answer in Psalms 149:5: “Let the LOYAL ONES exult in glory; Let them cry out joyfully on their beds”. What a difference with the desperate, rancorous, frustrated disloyal apostates.
Tut tut, Skyrainbow, Is name-calling one of your Christian values?
Tell me, my friend, for a group of men who openly oblige their adherents to teach their children that they will be emotionally and spiritually damaged if they own a plastic effigy of a wizard and then equally openly oblige their elders to maintain secrecy of confessed criminal activity (paedophilia) in the congregation, thus making them accessories to the crime; do you think it proper that we should look up to such people for our ethical and moral standards?
If you are parent, would you be prepared to show that quality of ‘loyalty’ and risk the future of your children?
Frank 2
The religious leaders during Christs earthly ministry viewed him as an apostate. This action did not sway Jesus from speaking the truth. Being loyal and true to his Heavenly Father and his Word was more important to Jesus. He did not subjugate himself to these men. Nor condone their wrong attitude and teaching. Jesus not only knew the law he showed the spirit of the law.
When an organization prints books with wrong teachings, and people leave that organization, they can be called apostates of the organization. They are not apostates of Jehovah, or his Word. Jehovah is not partial. Condoning wrong teaching is apostasy.
What an organization has printed in black and white is evidence
of apostasy. How they can call others apostate is amusing.
Why did you leave Jehovah’s people? Not because of all the fallacies you are mentioning.
John answers: “They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us” 1 John 2:19.
So, a great part of the apostates were disfellowshipped because of their immoral behavior. First they became disloyal towards their partner and next towards Jehovah.
If you are going to quote scripture, try not to copy your false leaders. This scripture is speaking about the anti-christ, which is someone who clearly rejects Jesus and his teachings. Most that leave the organisation have not rejected Jesus, they just no longer believe that JWs are teaching the truth. Big difference.
What surprises me, Skyrainbow, is that you show yourself to be irrational in your thinking. Why? So far you haven’t told us why our thinking is unbiblical or genuinely ‘apostate.’ Do you have any actual arguments or does your dog collar constrict every time you dare have a thought that you could truly call your own?
Pavlov’s dog had the same problem.
Frank 2
1 John 2:19 can be used by “all clergy” regarding people who leave their religion,…… not an argument. What is printed in black and white by a religion over many years is evidence of apostasy. “Not spiritual food.” It may be a surprise to some people but not to others, leaving an organization does not depend on immoral behavior. “Let us keep our minds above the belt.” On the other hand, when the mind is assaulted with misleading, presumptuous, interpretation of Jehovah’s Word over many years, this is what causes many to leave. And justly so, they can not condone false teachers. The poor people who were mislead over many years because of what was printed, brings no praise to Jehovah’s name.
The man who is telling 90-year old stories about Rutherford and shouting FOCUS ON RUTHERFORD is now asking me if I have any actual arguments! Stay serious Frank.
And I prefer to be Pavlov’s dog and not the dog described in 2 Peter 2:22.