As a young boy growing up in the Witness faith, I was taught to think of my religion as an organization with a level playing field, where everyone enjoyed an equal standing before God. Whenever photos were published of the Governing Body, it was always pointed out how approachable and “grandfatherly” they appeared – as though you could walk up to any member and ask him anything!
It was the same with elders, Circuit Overseers and District Overseers. Sure, these men all had lofty titles, but when it all boiled down to it, they were supposed to be no different from ordinary publishers – just with slightly different privileges of service.
As I grew up and began to see different facets of the organization in closer detail, it gradually became obvious that true equality among the brothers was something that existed in theory rather than in practice. A typical example of this could be seen during the twice-yearly Circuit Overseer’s visit, with all the hype and furore surrounding the arrival of a single man and his wife. I could see brothers and sisters bending over backwards to impress this supposedly humble representative of the Society – putting on elaborate dinners for him, taking him on their most impressive calls and bible studies, laughing at his awful jokes, and generally acting all prim and proper whenever in his presence.
Even so, regardless of the fact that I saw little practical evidence of true equality among the brothers, I generally accepted the idea that all Witnesses are equal – and that there is no “hierarchy” in our faith. In fact, this wasn’t just an idea circulated among publishers – it was a core concept that was actively promoted in our publications. Other religions may operate a “hierarchical structure,” but not Jehovah’s cleansed people! We are different from false religion. Hierarchical religions, most notably the Catholic Church, are to be vilified and exposed for their “worldly” organizational politics.
To demonstrate, consider the following quotes from the Society’s publications over the decades, each of which denounce the concept of a hierarchical religious structure, or describe it in disapproving terms…
“In contrast with many religious groups in Christendom, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not decide for themselves the form of spiritual government under which they operate. These sincere Christians endeavor to stick to Jehovah’s standards. Overseers among them are not put into office by some congregational, hierarchical, or presbyterian form of church government.” (w01 1/15 p13)
“Sadly, over the centuries this elevated, selfless concept of ministers as self-sacrificing preachers and teachers was distorted. What began as the Christian ministry evolved into a formal, hierarchical institution. Orders and ranks were formed, and they were invested with prestige and power and often accumulated great wealth. This created divisions.” (g00 7/8 p27)
“There was the question of who should serve as elders and deacons in the congregations. To get away from the hierarchical structure prevalent in Christendom, it was concluded that these should be elected democratically by the vote of the members of each congregation.” (w95 5/15 p22)
“As time went by, the number of those claiming to be Christians rose to the millions and then to the hundreds of millions. They developed different kinds of church government, such as hierarchical, presbyterian, and congregational. However, neither the conduct nor the beliefs of these churches reflected the rulership of Jehovah. They were not theocracies!” (w94 1/15 p14)
“Especially since 1919, the enthroned King Jesus Christ has developed a fine condition amid his followers on earth. He has placed among them ‘princes’ (Hebrew, sarim) who do indeed furnish just and loving oversight. In contrast with the oppressive and self-serving rulers so general throughout the world, the King in God’s organization has raised up responsible men who are not revered as hierarchical ‘princes of the church,’ or the like.” (w84 5/15 p16)
“This fading of Christian watchfulness prompted apostate Christians to organize themselves into a well-structured church whose eyes were no longer fixed on the coming parousia, or presence, of Christ but, rather, on dominating its members and, if possible, the world. The New Encyclopædia Britannica states: ‘The [apparent] delay of the Parousia resulted in a weakening of the imminent expectation in the early church. In this process of ‘de-eschatologizing,’ [weakening of the teaching on the ‘Last Things’] the institutional church increasingly replaced the expected Kingdom of God. The formation of the Catholic Church as a hierarchical institution is directly connected with the declining of the imminent expectation.” (w84 12/1 p6)
“In the latter part of the 19th century, the Bible Students had a democratic way of governing their congregations; they wanted to get away from an autocratic hierarchical system.” (w81 12/1 p25)
“One’s qualifying as an ‘elder’ or ‘overseer’ was not a matter of ascending a hierarchical ladder, starting with the lowest rung. Catholic theologian Legrand writes: ‘The ordained ministry is not a cursus honorum [race for honors] to be run like climbing the rungs of a hierarchical ladder. In fact, the word hierarchy is not to be found in the Bible.'” (g76 9/8 p27)
“The above-mentioned Thascius Caecilius Cyprian was the bishop of the church in Carthage, Africa. He was born about 200 C.E. and died in 258 C.E. He was a clergyman, called here ‘the father of the hierarchical system,’ one of the body of clergy that existed not much more than a century after the death of Christ’s apostles and their close associates. From that time on, throughout the ‘Dark Ages,’ into the time of the Reformation and the beginning of the Protestant Churches, and down to the present, this clergy-laity distinction has existed in Christendom.” (w75 4/1 p202)
“What wonder, then, that intelligent persons of today who are informed on the kind of rule that prevailed during the time of the popish ‘theocracy’ cannot stomach the thought of God’s rule being about to come, if God’s rule means the restoration of such a hierarchical rule!” (w68 10/15 p618)
“Who, then, is doing the discipling work today? There can be no doubt of this. It is the Christian witnesses of Jehovah. The revival of the work of making disciples is to be found in that organization in these last days. They have freed themselves from the constricting creeds and contaminating false doctrines of the nominal churches. They have freed themselves from the hierarchical, congregational and all other forms of church rule that are unscriptural and they are governed by theocratic rule.” (w66 4/1 p205)
“Interesting is the fact that, though forced to meet underground, those primitive Christians by no means kept their light hidden there. As Christ had commanded, they lifted it high on ‘lampstands’ by a work of public testimony. Though this drew the infuriated malice of many, it introduced untold hope to others who proceeded to associate with the Christian community. Charles Maitland, in The Church in the Catacombs, singles out this proselytizing nature of the Christians as the greatest aggravating factor of their persecution, because of which other charges were trumped up by the authorities. Their harmlessness can be seen in that for the mere reason of secretly celebrating the Lord’s Supper they suffered an official ban. From what can be told by the ancient inscriptions those Christians scorned the hierarchical structure which papal Rome copied from pagan Rome.” (w51 8/15 p486)
“With such a breadth of meaning and variety of application of the Hebrew word sar we can appreciate how the heavenly King reigning in righteousness could have his visible servants on the earth during this perilous time and how these would occupy the position corresponding with what Isaiah 32:1 speaks of as princes (sarím). They would not hold such princely office inside the political systems of this world, because, although they are in the world, they are no part of the world. Neither would they have any such combined political, hierarchical offices such as the higher clergy of the Roman Catholic religious system hold, so that they are called ‘princes of the church.'” (w51 12/1 p721)
As can be clearly seen from the above quotes, the hierarchical structure long-ago adopted by the Catholic Church has been routinely denounced by the Society as unscriptural, autocratic, divisive and prone to encouraging corruption.
But what is a hierarchy? One definition describes it as: “an organizational structure where every entity in the organization, except one, is subordinate to a single other entity. This arrangement is a form of a hierarchy.” This unmistakably describes the Catholic Church, with the Pope at the top – answerable to no one. Certainly in all my years growing up in the organization I never thought of it as a fair way of describing the organizational structure of Jehovah’s Witnesses. After all, we are God’s true organization, and therefore unique from all other religions! We have Christ as our leader, and we receive instruction from God’s holy spirit through the Faithful Slave and its representative Governing Body!
Reality sinks in
Then in 2011 I woke up and was finally able to see the organization for what it truly is – just one of many hierarchical Christian denominations claiming to have the sole backing of God. Once I learned to reason for myself, I could plainly see that there was absolutely no relationship between the Faithful and Discreet Slave class (those claiming to be anointed) and the Governing Body, who claimed to humbly serve as their representatives. In reality, it was the small number of men on the Governing Body who were pulling all the strings, without conferring with anyone else. The Faithful Slave teaching was just their “cover story.”
Then, in October last year (2012), things took an unexpected twist. The Governing Body ditched the idea that all anointed ones make up the Faithful and Discreet Slave, and declared that only they could be so identified. In making this change, many would argue that they were only acknowledging what was already widely recognized – that the Governing Body are the only ones dispensing “spiritual food,” and have been for some time. Ordinary anointed ones have never really had any say in what is published in the literature.
Though somewhat predictable, for myself and many like-minded individuals this change was profound. The Society had, without great fanfare, neatly removed the last distinction between themselves and other hierarchical religions such as the Catholic Church. Previously, they had hidden behind the Faithful and Discreet Slave doctrine as an excuse to wield power. Now it was surplus to requirements. They declared themselves to be God’s sole channel, giving themselves Pope-like authority in the process.
The changes start to take effect
And it wasn’t long before this authority started to be drilled home unmistakably in our literature. Take a look at this recent illustration from the April 13th Watchtower on page 29…
It doesn’t take a genius to see what is being depicted in this illustration. This is a clear and unambiguous example of a hierarchy – right down to the numbering of the various groups or positions. It is a list of the various operational elements of the Watch Tower Society in a descending order of importance. When you look closely, you notice that even the chairs are more comfortable the higher up the ladder you happen to be! Governing Body members get plush leather executive chairs, while branch office members must make do with plain office swivel chairs. If you are an elder, you can consider yourself lucky to get a school canteen chair! Evidently the more privileged you are in God’s organization, the more seat padding you require.
But there are other things that are noticeable about this illustration on close inspection. You notice that the current Governing Body members have vainly had their likenesses depicted in the illustration so that, when you look closely enough, they are individually recognizable.
Perhaps of most striking significance is the one notable absentee from the illustration – Jesus Christ. True, the Society would likely argue that this is a picture depicting the earthly part of God’s organization, and Christ is in the heavenly part. Even so, this hasn’t stopped the Society from depicting Jehovah on his heavenly chariot in the same illustration. Even some of the angels are present. So why no Jesus? Especially if he is supposed to be “head of the congregation?” (Eph. 5:23)
The answer is simple. Christ plays no role whatsoever in this organization and never actually has. His absence from this illustration may well be an oversight, but it is a telling one. The Governing Body is well and truly in charge, and they want us to know it. They take their orders from nobody but themselves. In this way, they are really no different from the Pope. In fact, take a look at this diagram I have prepared, which I believe demonstrates quite clearly that the hierarchical structures of the Catholic Church and Watch Tower Society are now eerily similar.
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, the above diagram may seem shocking, but it accurately reflects the way things truly are in the organization. It also shows how organizationally similar the Watch Tower Society is to the Catholic Church – the very religion it has spent decades criticizing.
Furthermore, you may be shocked to learn that, in at least one court case, Watchtower lawyers have openly admitted that the religion IS a hierarchy just like the Catholic Church. In a recent lawsuit surrounding an ugly power struggle in the Menlo Park congregation, California, a Watchtower attorney by the name of Calvin Rouse told a judge: “We are a hierarchical religion just like the Catholic Church.” A clipping of this shocking statement from the official court manuscript may be viewed below. If you would like to read more about the case in question and download the manuscript, you can do so by clicking here.
And so, even if the Society can’t admit to being a hierarchy in writing (mostly due to the stigma it has attached to that word over the decades), it is quite open about its hierarchical nature in illustrations and when pressed on the matter in a court of law.
Does it matter?
Perhaps, having considered the above information, you are saying to yourself: “But things have always been like this. Why is it such a big deal?” Well, the fact that the Watch Tower Society is a hierarchy is significant for two reasons. Firstly, because a hierarchical structure goes against scripture, and secondly, because they criticize other religious organizations for using the exact same system.
Consider Christ’s words at Matthew 23:6-12
“They [the Pharisees] like the most prominent place at evening meals and the front seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces and to be called Rabbi by men. But YOU, do not YOU be called Rabbi, for one is YOUR teacher, whereas all YOU are brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone YOUR father on earth, for one is YOUR Father, the heavenly One. Neither be called ‘leaders,’ for YOUR Leader is one, the Christ. But the greatest one among YOU must be YOUR minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.” (New World Translation)
By embracing a system where certain brothers in responsible positions are exalted above others, the Society has organized itself in direct contradiction of Christ’s words above. As seen in the Watchtower illustration, the Governing Body has now occupied the most exalted position – just a nudge away from heaven! Everyone else is beneath them. Not only that, everyone must humble themselves before the Governing Body by obeying everything they say. Those who don’t obey them or recognise their leadership are to be disfellowshipped as “apostates” and shunned by their Witness relatives.
Utter Hypocrisy
It is also worth remembering the countless instances over many decades where the Society has denounced the Catholic Church for operating as a hierarchy. Now the “Faithful Slave” doctrine has been re-written, and what do we see? The Watch Tower Society now has an almost identical organizational structure to the religion it has spent decades criticizing – even claiming to be fulfilling prophecy in the process (in the Revelation Climax book). Yes, our organization really is no different from any other Christian denomination, and the hypocrisy of it all is breathtaking.
The whole thing reminds me of the much-loved parable “Animal Farm” by George Orwell, which I was taught in school. Intended as a cautionary warning against communism, Orwell’s story describes an uprising in which a group of animals seize control of their own farm by ousting their abusive farmer overlord. However, once the animals gain control, gradually the “top” animals who are in charge (the pigs) become corrupt. They begin with a commandment that reads “all animals are equal,” but gradually, over a period of time, this is changed to read “all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.” By the end of the story, the pigs become just as abusive as the farmer they ousted.
The overall message of Orwell’s short story is that “power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” When you look at the Governing Body and the way they are gradually maneuvering doctrine to further exalt their position in the organization, it is not difficult to draw parallels with the pigs in Animal Farm. If you haven’t yet read the story, you can download it as a PDF on this link.
A reason to stop and ponder
In conclusion, I believe that thinking Witnesses all over the world need to pause and meditate on page 29 of the April 15th 2013 Watchtower. They need to look long and hard at that illustration and ask themselves the following difficult questions:
- Is this really what I dedicated my life to serve when I got baptized?
- Are Jehovah’s Witnesses really any different from any other religion if they have such a clearly defined hierarchy, which is almost identical to the Catholic Church?
- How can the Governing Body justify performing such a huge u-turn by awarding itself Pope-like status?
- Why observe their command to not investigate objective information about the organization when it is changing before my very eyes into something I can no longer respect or admire?
Peter, I guess you don’t hurt enough for you to get the point and we hope you never do, but pain can be a learning-curve.
But I would ask you this: If all is fluffy ducks and butterflies, then why are you here if you didn’t at least entertain one doubt?
Try not to give undue praise to your object of lionisation, please just answer the question – focus! I would be grateful.
Frank
I have hurt plenty and for many years,
Things are not nice and fluffy and i never said that they were. as a matter of fact in spite of the honeymoon between God and the wt, i have always believed that The judgment starts with the house of God and it has not happened yet. finally they agree with me now just because JW have gotten some dates wrong i am not going to dismiss everything else.
☺
Peter, thanks for sharing. We’re getting to the hub of the wheel now.
Apart from falsely prophesying then, what exactly about the WTBTS’s views is it that brings you here?
Frank V
Frank, ‘
I feel the need to correct you again, let me let you in on something, J.W do not believe there are prophesies after the bible was written.
Those are the evangelicals, not the witnesses.
What brought me here to this site was the title, I was curious as to what other witnesses were saying about 1919.
Peter, how then do you read Matthew 24:36? Was it okay than to state, the day or the hour, then the year, or perhaps the ‘season’? Tell how you understand Acts 1:7.
If one reads God’s calendar and makes extraordinary claims, is this not a responsibility that requires extraordinary evidence?
Now you’ve read some of what ‘other Witnesses’ are saying about 1919, what is your conclusion?
Can you make 2520 lunar years come out to 1914 CE? Please leave your chronological workings.
Thanks
Frank V
Every time men try to date God they fail, the bible tells us not to go beyond what is written.
The bible cant be more plain in stating that Jesus will come at a time when no one expects.
They are correct about 1919 now.
1914 will be the next date to change.
No dates for this humble servant.
☻
You speak well, Peter, but if you suspect 1914 to be incorrect, why do assume 1919 IS correct?
Frank V
Because they just fixed it
How did they fix it, Peter? Are you saying this is a fabricated date also?
Frank
How did they fix it, Peter? Are you saying this is a fabricated date also?
—————————————————————–
I guess you are not up-to date on the latest, and i will say it again, Dates are not to be used unless they are in the bible.
They corrected the 1919 date in which Christ had supposedly come to inspect his earthly temple, they are saying now this is in the future during the great tribulation, so another date gone.
The difference between Moses and Gov Body is Moses is a man of humility.Even Moses leads Israel he accept suggestion. When his father-in-law give suggestion, Moses humbly applied it. But the Gov Body is different .They think that even they make big mistake in their policies, or prediction in the Bible, they did not ready to accept advice or suggestion even if the suggestion is biblical.It is becoz their mindset is the only channel is them.
Better still, Peter – it took me 10 minutes to find the connection between the two dates as taught by the WBTS. Here they are with references for you:
Revelation – Its Grand Climax, chap. 28 p. 192 par. 22 Contending With Two Ferocious Beasts ***
(Paragraph) “22 The 42 months mentioned here appear to be the same as the three and a half years during which the holy ones are harassed by a horn arising from one of the beasts in Daniel’s prophecy. (Daniel 7:23-25; see also Revelation 11:1-4.) Thus, from the end of 1914 on into 1918, while the warring nations were literally tearing at one another like wild beasts, citizens of those nations were pressured to worship the wild beast, to indulge in the religion of nationalism, even to be ready to die for their country. Such pressure led to intense suffering on the part of many of the anointed ones, who felt that their higher obedience belonged to Jehovah God and his Son, Christ Jesus. (Acts 5:29) Their trials came to a climax in June 1918, when they were ‘conquered.’ In the United States, prominent officers and other representatives of the Watch Tower Society were wrongly imprisoned, and the organized preaching by their Christian brothers was greatly hindered. Having authority “over every tribe and people and tongue and nation,” the wild beast clamped down on God’s work worldwide.”
Isaiah’s Prophecy 2, chap. 27 pp. 396-397 Jehovah Blesses Pure Worship ***
A Swift and Sudden Restoration
(Paragraph) “13 Isaiah prophesies: “There is a sound of uproar out of the city, a sound out of the temple! It is the sound of Jehovah repaying what is deserved to his enemies.” (Isaiah 66:6) In the original fulfillment of these words, “the city” is Jerusalem, where Jehovah’s temple is located. The “sound of uproar” implies the tumult of war, which is heard in the city when the invading Babylonian armies assault it in 607 B.C.E. What, though, about the modern-day fulfillment?
14 These words in Isaiah harmonize with two other prophetic utterances, the one recorded at Ezekiel 43:4, 6-9 and the other at Malachi 3:1-5. Both Ezekiel and Malachi foretell a time when Jehovah God comes to his temple. Malachi’s prophecy shows that Jehovah comes to inspect his house of pure worship and to act as a Refiner, rejecting those who misrepresent him. Ezekiel’s vision depicts Jehovah as entering the temple and demanding that all traces of immorality and idolatry be removed. In the modern-day fulfillment of these prophecies, there was an important spiritual development in 1918 in connection with Jehovah’s worship. Jehovah and Jesus evidently made an inspection of all of those claiming to represent pure worship. That inspection led to the final casting off of corrupt Christendom. For Christ’s anointed followers, the inspection meant a brief period of refinement followed by a swift spiritual restoration in 1919.—1 Peter 4:17.”
Do you have an idea what I’m getting at, Peter? Can one date be separated from the other? Has there been any ‘new light’? Please update us.
Frank V
Peter,
You state “I don’t believe certain things that we as JW are taught, i think that most witnesses feel that way”. that’s what’s called Cognitive Dissonance, you are supporting a system you don’t deep down really believe in. It’s like all witnesses believe “God will understand that all my unbelieving relatives like husbands, wives, sons, daughters, brothers or sisters are nice people and Jehovah will save them, and he also understands my failings.” This is not taught by the Watchtower many times it has stated all will be destroyed (harsh and unforgiving, like the non-prodigal).
In regard to the discussion above on the “Billions” to be destroyed I remember an elder stating to me many a time that the buddhists, muslims etc in the whole of asia “They won’t change, they are all for the big stick.” What would make someone state such a repugnant teaching? “A rotten tree produces bad fruit.” The WT soc’ is harsh and unforgiving just like the non-prodigal son, and you know they are, that’s why are we all on here anonymously?
Tamethyst
I believe what JW teach about God is correct and believe that they are obeying Gods law by preaching the kingdom in many nations.
I support what the bible teaches and i do not support what someone says but with no bible base.
The Brothers teach that there will be a day of destruction they did not make that up
Don’t blame the messenger
The bible says that peoples flesh will rot as they are standing.
I support no trinity
no hell
no soul
no eternal torment
the preaching of the good news
the Bible based principles we all hold so dear.
☺
Hi Peter,
I’m curious, if the WTS is exclusively directed by God, how come they get dates wrong in the first place? Saying they’re imperfect people won’t wash with anyone these days, as it’s just an excuse to cover up the fact that they are NOT directed by God.
Basically, what you’re saying is that they have licence to make it up as they go along? So when yet another date is proved wrong, they’ll just change “The Truth” once again to fit these new dates. And when these new dates are proved wrong they’ll just change “The Truth” yet again to fit some more new dates, and when these new dates are wrong they’ll change “The Truth” to fit…
Where are these celebrations taking place?
I have never hear of one and i have never been to one.
There is no doubt God has directed the witnesses in the understanding they have today.
No other group of people have the believes that are based in the bible that the brothers have, i believed God opened up the understanding of not only the 1st president but of others that were asoc w/ them and believed in the same thing.
The true worship cant be found with people that do not know who he is and have no heart felt impulse to find out and please him.
If they were looking out for themselves they would leave things as they were but they don’t they take the risk and correct as they see.
The dates should have never been in the first place, the majority of what JW do and teach comes from the bible, the organizational stuff is just that. ☻
@ meek ones ~ “The difference between Moses and Gov Body is Moses is a man of humility” ~ Moses was in direct communication with and from Jehovah and was given a clear commission that would prove to be a key element in the outworking of Bible chronology. There was no doubt that he had God’s approval and what his instructions were or of his lineage and standing before Jehovah as opposed to others who simply assume and appoint themselves, applying titles over a crime, abuse and corruption rife organization with succession even if the dates don’t fit or are outrun an have to be “recalculated or readjusted in view of new light”…
DB, don’t forget that the centennial celebrations of Christ’s enthronement come only next year. I imagine this will be bigger even that 2012.
The true Biblical answer of 1878 CE passed with no recognisable Earthly events to mark it. If they really got their heads together, the GB will, I’m sure, create a new scenario for all its acolytes to be ‘readjusted’ to. This will not be a problem as they have over 8,000,000 eating out of their hands already.
Paul warned about first century Jews avoiding genealogies, Jesus warned against second-guessing his father as to his second arrival (man-made chronologies). Jesus’ first arrival was prophesied (if, of course, the book of Daniel is not a forgery, as some have accused), but the second was the obsession of Victorian gold-diggers, and thus we would expect the expectations be cobbled together from many sources.
well dates shouldnt even be talked about at all because nowhere in the bible does it say anything about knowing a date when Jesus is coming. The GB has always had it wrong and will always have it wrong. No one will know the time or date when Jesus will come back for His people. The GB has a earthly hope, when we should have a heavenly hope first, and then earthly. I say this because my wife is a JW and she tells me that she doesnt want to go to heaven…i struggle with that because we are spirits first, than souls…we should want to be with Christ when he returns for his people. Who wants to be on this earth when the tribulation and armageddon takes place??
Hi Frank,
I agree with you and everyone else. It’s a shame that they place so much emphasis on things that are out of our control, when they should focus on Christ’s teachings and only his teachings; how they can help people in this life, which they’ve sadly never done anyway.
Yes, I’m wondering what’s going to happen with the centennial celebrations next year, should be very interesting indeed. Though of course, Christ hasn’t been enthroned, seeing as he hasn’t actually returned… yet!
DB, actually I was joking about the centennial ‘celebrations.’ I don’t think one hundred years of chronological games and excuses is anything to celebrate.
What surprises me is that few seem to understand that any pretension of divine authority being handed to the GB in 1919 (‘getting the contract’) is just that – a pretension. The implications should be explored and decisions about people’s present life should be made based on this revelation and personal conclusions. Decades of stale adrenaline must surely takes its toll on a JWs life-span.
What actually happened is there was actually a philosophical seizure of power, a presumption, that has been accompanied by a plausible story. It’s time we got wise to it.
Frank V
I found this interesting article about the death-knell for religion in the Internet age. Here are a couple of paragraphs:
“A traditional religion, one built on “right belief,” requires a closed information system. That is why the Catholic Church put an official seal of approval on some ancient texts and banned or burned others. It is why some Bible-believing Christians are forbidden to marry nonbelievers. It is why Quiverfull moms home school their kids from carefully screened text books. It is why, when you get sucked into conversations with your fundamentalist uncle George from Florida, you sometimes wonder if he has some superpower that allows him to magically close down all avenues into his mind. (He does!)
Religions have spent eons honing defenses that keep outside information away from insiders. The innermost ring wall is a set of certainties and associated emotions like anxiety and disgust and righteous indignation that block curiosity. The outer wall is a set of behaviors aimed at insulating believers from contradictory evidence and from heretics who are potential transmitters of dangerous ideas. These behaviors range from memorizing sacred texts to wearing distinctive undergarments to killing infidels. Such defenses worked beautifully during humanity’s infancy. But they weren’t really designed for the current information age.”
Religion may not survive the Internet
by Valerie Tarico posted on January 17, 2013 05:08AM GMT
http://www.richarddawkins.net/news_articles/2013/1/16/-religion-may-not-survive-the-internet#.UQBt8R2eOSp
I really like your response to this anonymous person. Great job Alen! I wish you could give that speech in front of the7millions Jws to see how many of them would continue to follow WTBTS blindly. Thanks again for your comment.
Cedars is the bomb. I am doing so well in my healing process that I feel free of regrets. I recently left 2 low paying jobs to upgrade my life in a whole new career field. I went back to visit the old workplace one month later and saw old faces again. I felt like I never left because my friends were all there. They told me I look happier and younger since I moved on with my life. I was and feel wonderful for the life change. I was working for almost 9 years in the same job and I felt stuck with everyone else. New changes in products or advertisement each year but the same routine with others that came and went. I realized that as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses I was experiencing a mirror like situation. The thing is I am no longer working at those jobs as well as a Witness anymore. I realized I was never going to move up and would stay at the same level for many more years. The new changes in the JW organization is nothing new for members and nonbelievers who watch with a close eye. I realized that to just leave is not enough to make you feel free and happy. I recognized we needed association with new friends and a place to express our views without punishment. I was in search for a new place to guide my heart and heal my deep pains. I went to dozens of churches and still felt lonely and empty because they did not understand me at all. But wait a website with current members and ex members that can share views without harsh judgment is what I found here. I discovered a home where I feel safe and free to express myself including my life experiences as a JW. I had such anger and pain I was working my way up in the political scheme of government so I could one day take down this group called WTBTS. This site encouraged me to be neutral and check my facts first. I realized that the fuse to this time bomb was getting shorter so I changed my path to support those that need a helping hand. Thanks Cedar for changing my agenda of revenge to one of love and support for those that are still lost and confused little sheep. I believe that your doing God’s work and I praise you for changing my life away from hate to one of love.
Magusknight..what a beautiful comment, I had to let you know that I really needed to hear something like that right now, I am still suffering from bitterness and wanting revenge, but what would that serve right. I know it will take to time heal and carry on and really find a fulfilling life but its people like you and Frank and Cedars that have helped me this far.
Sincerely
shannon
Hello Magnus. Thank you so much for your heartfelt expressions. I’m absolutely thrilled that I’ve been able to help you in some small way. Warm regards, Cedars
Yes Shannon we all heal differently and this is normal. I have realized I can still love all the brothers and sisters whom were my friends while standing firm against teachings and policies that are inaccurate or harmful to those innocent ones. Shannon I believe in you and your potential to recover at your own pace all the pain you feel inside. You are ready for change and are open to move forward in your healing process just like i did. Pain is a powerful emotion that informs you that your alive but not in harmony with your true state of being. Pain is a warning mechanism that something is dangerous and harmful to your well being. If things are wonderful and peaceful you would be in a relaxed state to not feel pain. Some get so numb they never feel the pain or warning signal and in many cases it is far to late to protect oneself. So Shannon your body is informing you of danger and this is 100% a normal human response. In some cases the pain is so intense you may experience shock which can last for awhile. Love is a great pain reliever and heals many deep wounds. If you want to be close to your Creator than you must know and understand LOVE for God is LOVE. This is one of a few scriptures that comforts me. Romans 14:8 reminds us whether we live for our God or die for our God we belong to our God. No human on this Earth has the right to claim power over any of us since we living or dying belong to our God. Food for Thought. I send my love to my new friend Shannon.
It’s very heart-warming to read your expressions, guys, and to be able to relate to them. I too am healing and it was just recently that I finally realized and admitted the truth to myself, that this is a mind controlling cult. Of course you feel anger and guilt at first, but then I was born in it, really believed it, and had no opportunity of knowing a different point of view. And the fear instilled in me of any dissent towards the Watchtower prevented me from opening my eyes sooner. But not anymore. Thanks to your insights through your comments, your support, Cedars’s great work, we have a voice. We are healing. I saw a joke the other day you guys may have seen before, “And you shall know the Internet, and the Internet shall set you free.” LOL
Cedars has given us a voice. Thank you Cedars, and everyone for the support and the great work.
Excellent article. For us (mankind) there is but one God, the Father and one Lord, Jesus [the] Christ. (1 Cor 8:6).
Man has a Head over him: The Christ. (1 Cor 11:3)
Christ has a Head over him: God. (1 Cor 11:3)
It is simple:
God
Christ
Man
The problem today is that men and their organizations have inserted themselves in between Man and Christ; a holy place it does not belong. So it now looks like this:
God
Christ
The Organization
Man
“The Organization” has effectively made itself a Head over us as it claims that Christ has charged THEM with feeding the domestics. This arrangement makes the “way” by which man comes to Christ and then to the Father. Christ says that he is “The way, the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father but by “him.”
The imposing shadow cast by “The Organization” blots out the way to the Father and it prevents the light of the truth from the “living one” from reaching man.
This is easily corrected but it will take courage for many to do so. The solution: Remove The Organization from before you.
Attach yourself to the “person” of the Christ and become “his” disciple and let “him” teach you.
With ALL religious organization removed from before us, we can ask Jesus God and our God for his wisdom, understanding and knowledge (through our Master Jesus [the] Christ) and we will receive them as the Father promised He would give them “through” the same person we asked them: Christ Jesus.
Christ Jesus is the ONLY way by which we can receive anything from the Father in heaven. It does not come down from the Father through Christ to “an organization” to us. Because if it did, then Christ would not be “The Way.”
If the Master was listened to the mess the Watch Tower organization and all organizations claiming to be of Christ would not be in the mess they are in today.
The bottom line is that men do not know what they are doing and not equipped to lead and direct others. The day will come when Christ will prepare a Faithful and Discreet Slave who will be equipped to lead and direct under his authority.
That slave does not exist today. The Faithful and Discreet Slave are those persons of the First resurrection and who will serve as kings and priest (administrators) with Christ for the 1000 years.
Everything we see today in The Watch Tower Organization and ALL religious organizations and systems is a LIE; a deception; a counterfeit.
These are men (and women) who like the people in the Land of Shinar in Nimrods day are “making a celebrated name for THEMSELVES.”
Simply obey God and His Christ. (Luke 9:35; John 8:31-32 and Matthew 28:19-20)
Caution: Doing so will not make you popular in this world.
Peter you would be more correct if you said no other group as got so much wrong in the past. Every time they talk about something happening in the future they get it wrong. When that fails they move on to another explanation, and when that fails they think of something else. JWs are one of the most mobile religions on earth, meaning that two thirds of those that are brought up in the religion leave during their adulthood. Half the world has never heard of JWs so that is another lie they have told you. I think you will find it is more like Satan behind the organisation than God.
That is what i have been saying, every time they set a date God makes a fool out of them,.
People find it very hard to be one of JW because like i was told “YOU PEOPLE TAKE IT SERIOUS”.
It is not easy not being part of the world, no celebrating things that people all around you are celebrating, not to believe the same thing that everybody else who tell you they are christian believe
But cant you tell me what JW’S have gotten correct?
-see any of that?
The dates fail in comparison to all the other truths we hold dear.
☺
So in fact you are saying they are no different to other religions.
There are other religions that reject hellfire, trinity, and immortal soul. JWs are not the only ones that reject those things. The society regularly point there finger at other religions mistakes, yet there own history is full of errors. Also do you think that God would destroy 3 billion people who have never even heard the JW message? That would be pretty sick wouldn’t it. Would you kill your children if they did something that displeased you and they had no idea they were doing something wrong?
Peter said: “I am not going to blindly agree with you the WATCHTOWER or anybody else.”
But if you do not blindly agree with the WATCHTOWER, you risk alienation and expulsion. I, too, spent many years convinced that I was allowed to think and reason independently from the organization. But this is not really the case. Witnesses are encouraged to think for themselves but are warned that if thinking for themselves leads them to conclusions that do not agree with those of the organization, they are to accept the organization’s teaching and reject their own. To do otherwise is considered apostasy.
Thy are very different i think, even from other religions that accept one of these bible teachings.
Those groups might believe in one of these things but not all biblical principals, for example they go to war vote and all that.
Let me just point out that jw literature is full of those dates and the changes, what was thought one and the new thinking, that is why this news that was posted online as to the new understanding comes as a big surprise, it used to be that this was printed so all could benefit at the same time and explained, this time only the people there knew and moths later it was posted on;line and to this day there has been no explanation as to why the change. ☺
Peter, your January 25 comment doesn’t make sense. Are you claiming that because God ‘makes a fool of his own people,’ that it means it is God’s true organisation. You can understand my confusion. How is this so?
The Bible makes it clear the punishment for speaking prophecy (whether in the Bible or not) in the name of God and the claim fails to come true.
Yes, the WT has got many things right, but so did the Pharisees. What is the point you’re making? Oh, and don’t try the ‘we’re just imperfect men’ thing, please about the many and costly errors made. That one wore thin the first time it was said.
Frank
Peter, have you thought about the motive behind the “new light” about the exclusiveness of the Governing Body awarding themselves the highest of Earth’s power in the sight of God?
Many scandals have come to light on the Internet. Actual documents can be scanned and downloaded. There has been leak after leak, apparently even from Bethel headquarters (BOE letters etc).
This requires consolidation of power and control as to what information got out. ‘Too many cooks’ have caused the problems. The above article I cited and quoted should ring many bells as to the need for ‘solidarity’ in the face of the greatest information machine ever experienced by man (the Internet).
Keeping control of the reins is getting increasingly more difficult for fundamentalist religion.
Frank
God makes a fool out of men who try to out guess him, God corrects the ones he loves, just like a father corrects his children.
Punishment for speaking profecy in the name of Gos, But JW unlike the evangelicals, have never said that JEHOVAH told them the dates, There are many quotes online from WT past and i mean since the very beginning, with the brothers saying that they are not prophets and there are mistakes made.
Science makes plenty of mistakes that cost lives Do we dismiss science b because if it’s errors? No-
The Good slave is in with the bad, just think about that.
Science told the JWs that vaccinations were a good thing for humans. The society decided they were from Satan. Science told JWs that transplants were ok, they decided it was cannabolism. Science told JWs that blood transfusions saved lives, JWs decided it was satanic, and now they have finally accepted that many blood fractions are actually ok to have. Science told JWs that man would go into space, JWs decided that would never happen. Governments offered to let JWs do alternative service in the military, JWs decided that was against God.
Do I need to go on. There is plenty more I can give you
That is hardly new. we all thought that anyway.
they don’t have to declare themselves as authority to monitor what goes out of the WATCHTOWER, One thing has nothing to do w/ the other.
If they really wanted power they wld not say they made a mistake again.
You don’t fully understand the implications of this for JW’S
The witnesses Put what the bible teaches before science, science changes, it learns it grows, Just like everything that is alive.
What doesn’t change is probably dead,
there were many things that were thought to be and as time goes on they change due to new info.
The bible prohibits the use of BLOOD.
Science has come up with blood fractions, who wld have known.
So now it is left up to the person to decide what they are going to do.
Peter – you say “Science has come up with blood fractions, who wld have known.”
Science didn’t “come up” with blood fractions. They were there all along. That’s an astoundingly ignorant comment on your part.
Cedar,
Maybe you are right or maybe it is you who ignores that before discovery it is as good as non existent.
In this context (divine instructions on the use of a substance) the nature of the discovery was (or should have been) very much known by God when the instructions were given. The written instructions forbade drinking blood, not transfusing it. The organization leapt on the law as an excuse to help further distinguish Witnesses from other religions and shape the Witness brand. In so doing, they showed the same litigious and unmerciful spirit as the Pharisees, who thought that the law came first and human life second (i.e. healing on the sabbath).
☺Can you imagine if Jehovah God were to give them instructions on blood fractions?
The law was upheld by the apostles abstain from blood they commanded, Probably because if this very thing today abstain is more than just drink.
Peter, I don’t really understand your writing (i.e. “if this very thing today”). Of course God wouldn’t give information on blood fractions to an ancient people. He wrote according to the needs of the time. Nowadays blood can be used to perform life-saving medical treatments. The fact that Jews and early Christians weren’t allowed to drink it doesn’t mean that people should have to die over a technicality.
Sorry Cedar let me make it a bit clearer, ABSTAIN. this takes care of the argument that it was only for drinking-
Does it make sense to prohibit the drinking of blood but to allow the injection of blood?
You said that God had to know about fractions when he gave his command regarding blood, i am sure he knew i don’t get the argument.
Today thanks to science we have many no blood wings in hospitals.
Not only JW but many others do not want some body else s blood circulating in their body-
The command to abstain from blood is pretty clear to me.
☻
New Revised Standard Version, Anglicised (NRSVA)
28 For it has seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to impose on you no further burden than these essentials: 29 that you abstain from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled[a] and from fornication. If you keep yourselves from these, you will do well. Farewell.
“ABSTAIN. this takes care of the argument that it was only for drinking”
No it doesn’t. To not drink blood was the only way you could “abstain” from it in Bible times. Things have changed completely since then, and the law clearly wasn’t written (and endorsed by the apostles) with those changes in mind. Please try to think for yourself for a change rather than through the narrow pharasaic Governing Body goggles.
Correct that is why i said earlier that it said abstain probably because of this very argument, Abstain is timeless.
I am to understand according to you that God commanded not to drink blood only, when you cant eat they feed you intravenously, so Transfusing is the same as eating.
You surely would not be abstaining from blood.
Peter,
The GB decided that blood transfusions were out, then science found a way to transfuse Plasma, Platelets, Red or White blood cells only. So the society put them on the banned list. Nowhere in the bible does it say ‘Abstain’ from platelets or plasma etc yet you would be disfellowshipped for taking these as a transfusion. Why is it that these four fractions are banned by JW GBody? It’s a ‘Command of Men’ being taught as doctrine.
Then science managed to refine the blood further down to 1/8ths , 1/64ths and these small fractions are OK?! Up to your conscience no less, is it a game of arithmetic with Jehovah he accepts small fractions but not big ones? All the fractions JW’s accept come from human donated blood. Do you give blood Peter? How are JW’s going to get these fractions unless they give blood, ever thought of donating your own “Autologous” fractions so you can accept them later? To me as I said above the whole Blood teaching is a command of men.
Tamethyst
Peter, please stop writing blatantly incorrect things on my website.
You now say: “Transfusing is the same as eating.”
Transfusing is most definitely NOT the same as eating. Blood performs an entirely different role in your circulatory system than food would, just as food is more useful to you in your stomach or gut than blood is. It is entirely erroneous to fall back on the Society’s misleading and shambolic “would an alcoholic transfuse alchol” line of reasoning.
Here is a link to a web page with information on this subject that is more reliable and rational than the publications you are used to reading… http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/blood-transfusions.php
Go away and do some research, THEN come back and share your opinion when you know both sides of the argument. I can’t do your thinking for you, and I won’t have you trolling this page when you can’t be bothered to read up on the subject.
The bible is very clear on the issue of Blood, No i don’t give blood or accept it, The bible does not talk about fractions as you said that is why it is left up to the person to decide on that, just like everything else you are the ultimate authority on you.
The reason why the ban as you say was explained to us in detail.
As everything progresses and changes there are many challenges put to us.
Peter, I’m sorry but you’re an ignorant man. You wade in on an argument without being willing to explore both sides of the issue or research all the questions first. If you want to kill yourself or your children because of a biblical law that had nothing to do with medical treatment that would be developed centuries later, that’s your decision. However, I will not have you pressuring people on this site to accept your narrow-minded and ignorant views on blood.
Narrow-minded person, you want to sound a fool. First read w67 5/15 p. 319 Questions From Readers AND SEE HOW THE ORGANIZATION YOU RE DEFENDING ANSWERED the question I want to quote “How can it be said that Jesus could have produced perfect children from an imperfect wife? Would not the children, according to the laws of genetics, have inherited imperfection from their mother?—F. S., England.”
You are using the Bible!! From the Bible, the WTS has no more good reasons to hide its hypocrisy behind the Bible; things have changed. Read w67 10/15 p. 638 Questions From Readers. Se how they answered this question Do Jesus’ words at Luke 20:34-36 apply to the earthly resurrection or to the heavenly resurrection of the 144,000?—W. D., Aust” and THEN USING THE BIBLE, HELP THE WOCI TOWER SOCIETY TO ANSWER THE QUESTION. They have completely failed to give an answer.
Let critical thinkers think and keep your narrow mind with your WTS; the blind leading the blind!!
Peter
Have you ever read the questions from readers on Blood as fertiliser? It appears from the WT answer that it is disrespectful to use blood, fish and bone as a fertiliser because the WT states it should be poured out on the ground. But it is OK nowadays to do all kinds of things to blood in the name of medicine because JW’s need fractions? And don’t forget these fractions come from human blood.
Tamethyst
Thamesyst
That was just their opinion.
Its not like the Catholic church you know, where the pope cant make a mistake.
I am talking in the context of introducing the fluid in the body not the function it performs.
I have done my research and i depend on you for the other side of the argument.
And yes i do have the right to do all that you mentioned.
Peter: “Punishment for speaking profecy in the name of Gos, But JW unlike the evangelicals, have never said that JEHOVAH told them the dates, There are many quotes online from WT past and i mean since the very beginning, with the brothers saying that they are not prophets and there are mistakes made.
Science makes plenty of mistakes that cost lives Do we dismiss science b because if it’s errors? No-”
Peter, you are wrong about not believing God gave them “the dates.” The only things we can say is that a political statement appeared in the WT in the ’90s claiming this. Is it not true that the WTBTS claimed that the Watchtower is God’s spokesman on Earth? This has been and still is that all adherents are obliged to accept its contents at any given time as being TRUTH from Jehovah himself. So if it said that 1925 or 1975 would herald great things prophetically, then all JWs would build their lives around the acclaimed fact that Jehovah himself had given this information to his ‘servants’! NO RESPONSIBILITY has EVER been taken for running ahead of God. If there is heavier judgement, it must be seen to be done.
Fred Franz even made the claim that Jehovah himself ‘edits the Watchtower’!
Your point about science is invalid too. Science doesn’t claim to be the salvation of man. Theists say it makes this claim, when in all truth it humbly admits it has only the desire to discover the truth through honest hard work. It makes no boastful claims, and if it does, it backs it up with material evidence. We don’t dismiss science because it has a humility not present in organised religion.
Frank