This time last year, I began my exit from the Jehovah’s Witnesses. My fade towards inactivity did not go unnoticed.
A few fellow believers and friends approached me with a strong warning: “Be careful. Satan is working through your husband to discourage you from serving Jehovah.”
Why would they jump to such a harsh conclusion? Was he a violent man, physically prohibiting me from attending meetings? Did he yell at me with a raised voice discouraging me from preaching? Did he berate me over my faith, pushing apostate ideas instead of Bible truths?
The answer to all such questions is a resounding “no!” He was the same kind, loving, hard-working, honest moral man I had married. The only thing that had changed was that he, one year prior, had left the religion of his youth, without any wrongdoing, discipline or explanation.
His exit triggered a change in how fellow believers viewed our relationship. For one year, I was constantly reminded of the danger of having a willful unbeliever as a spouse.
As most did, I believed Jehovah’s people respected the family arrangement, including the marital union, even if one was an unbeliever. Yet, this was not my personal experience. While I sought to find a balance in my new role, I received great pressure to give up and leave my husband.
This left me with questions: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses break up families? Do they allow for separation on grounds other than adultery? Finally, why would fellow members insist that Satan was making a personal attack against me via my spouse?
To help make sense of what was happening, I engaged in personal research and reflection.
In October 2014, JW.org posed this very question: Do Jehovah’s Witnesses Break Up Families or Build Them Up?
This was their answer…
As Jehovah’s Witnesses, we work to build up families, both our own and those of our neighbors. … In the Bible, [Jehovah] teaches principles that have helped people around the world to have marriages that are strong and happy.
The article continues by giving experiences showing how mixed-belief families were better off because one mate became a Jehovah’s Witness. The newly converted mate could apply Bible principles to settle conflicts and strengthen the marriage bond.
However, the article goes on to admit that conversion could bring about conflict.
Admittedly, sometimes it does. For example, a 1998 report by the research company Sofres found that 1 out of 20 marriages in which only one mate was a Witness had serious problems when that one converted.
Jesus foretold that those who follow his teachings would at times suffer family strife. (Matthew 10:32-36)
As I read the last paragraph, it felt untruthful; an outright conflict of the behavior and teachings of ones inside the organization (bold is mine).
However, the Witnesses do not encourage their members to separate from a marriage mate who is not a Witness. The Bible says: “If any brother has an unbelieving wife and she is agreeable to staying with him, let him not leave her; and if a woman has an unbelieving husband and he is agreeable to staying with her, let her not leave her husband.” (1 Corinthians 7:12, 13) Jehovah’s Witnesses abide by this command.
Perhaps, if I had never been a witness and my husband had remained an unbeliever, congregation members would have provided me support and treated me differently. But, alas, no. Because my husband became an unbeliever, willingly and by choice, I received no such support.
Rather, I had to beg the elders for a shepherding call. At the time, I was desperate for some guidance and help. It was the strangest experience.
Quickly, the tone of the meeting turned. The elders tried to pressure me to reveal private details about my mate’s exit from the organization. I refused. They warned me that Satan would try to “shipwreck” my faith through the actions of, and interactions with, my husband.
I needed encouragement and spiritual counsel. To this end, they provided me with a print out from the September 2006 Watchtower entitled, “When a Loved One Leaves Jehovah.” It described my personal, perceived situation with such descriptive words as deep anguish, devastating, heartbroken and difficult.
The elders tried to confirm this fear by sharing the following excerpt:
So it is not surprising that humans would grieve over the spiritual loss of a beloved relative.
Indeed, the spiritual loss of a loved one is among the most difficult of trials that come upon true worshipers. (Acts 14:22) Jesus said that accepting his message would cause division in some families. (Matthew 10:34-38) This is not because the Bible message of itself causes family division. Rather, unbelieving or unfaithful family members cause a rift by rejecting, abandoning, or even opposing the way of Christianity.
I left that meeting a wreck, and the badgering from congregation members continued. Within weeks of him no longer attending meetings or preaching, members of the congregation, including pioneers, elders, and elder’s wives, began to remind me that my marriage was second to my life and dedication to God. Without asking how things were at home, they began to assume my spouse was interfering with spiritual things.
Over and over again, congregation members offered unsolicited advice: “God comes first, so be prepared to separate.” Further, some even offered to help me pack up my belongings.
Not once did I tell anyone he was preventing me from attending meetings, preaching, or living a Christian lifestyle. In fact, he was still in good standing and had not committed any wrongdoing in the eyes of the congregation.
Now, divorce is only allowed if one of the mates commits adultery. But three extreme circumstances allow for separation. As explained in the book, “Keep Yourselves in God’s Love” Appendix:
- Willful Nonsupport
- Extreme Physical Abuse
- Absolute Endangerment of Spiritual Life
Absolute endangerment of spiritual life. A spouse may constantly try to make it impossible for the mate to pursue true worship or may even try to force that mate to break God’s commands in some way. In such a case, the threatened mate would have to decide whether the only way to “obey God as ruler rather than men” is to obtain a legal separation.—Acts 5:29.
Yet, this was NOT so in my case. Why would they try so hard to push me away from my mate? Truly, I believe it was out of fear that I would begin to awaken and leave off serving Jehovah.
My friends were constantly reminding me that my spiritual life was endangered and the only solution was to separate from my husband.
Sadly, I understood the fear that motivated them. For most of my life, I was told marriage could only succeed if Jehovah was a part of it.
“Threefold cord” is a figurative expression. (Eccl. 4:12) When applied to marriage, it includes the husband and wife, two strands, who are intertwined with the central strand, God. Being united with God gives a couple the spiritual strength to cope with problems and to achieve happiness.—w08 9/15, page 16.
Truthfully, the fault lies with those issuing instructions and enforcing the teachings while disguising these as helpful advice.
I am glad I listened to my heart and common sense. I am grateful I fought to preserve my marriage in the face of conflict and change. We spent time together each day, usually walking in the evenings. This helped to bring us closer.
Honestly, it wasn’t until my husband left that we began to have real, honest conversations. This helped me open my eyes to the truth about this harmful organization. I am no longer a blind drone obeying without thought or consequence.
Is my marriage built up? Am I happier now that I can communicate without fear? Do we have more time to spend together, which in turn strengthens our marriage bond?
Yes! My only regret?
That we did not leave sooner.
Who are these nut cases to warn you and suggest you leave your husband? That is disgusting and pre-judging things they know nothing about. You should have told them your husband left because there were too many opinionated bigots in the congregation. Then play dumb and ask them if they know what a prejudiced bigot is. You’re just asking, that’s all. Play dumb. Bury them.
Messing couples up and ruining marriages and they will call it if not mistaken: “Signs of Jesus’ Presence…”! We should not ignore “DIVIDE and RULE” rule which in my opinion has become “Confuse and Rule” in Jehovah’s Organisation.
Is there anyone who think Jehovah’s cherish marriage bond? I am he/she is totally wrong: (Hosea 13:16) . . .Sa·marʹi·a will be held guilty, for she has rebelled against her God. By the sword they will fall, Their children will be dashed to pieces, And their pregnant women will be ripped open.”
How could a god that cherishes marriage bonds and families inspire his “prophets” to write down such bullies… A coward god it must be!!!
Nice article
Here is an important suggestion for anyone when the elders attempt to cause a separation like they did with Zephyr and you are the innocent mate. Get a good lawyer immediately! Do not procrastinate. Have the law office mail the Kingdom hall and the individual elders involved of your intent to sue them for mental an emotional damge due to their slander. Do this before a marking talk is given and warn them that any such talk will be made note of and used as additional evidence.
Know this, the elders will contact the legal department and will get a rude awakening, Watchtower will not back them up. The lawyers in New York are not there for their protection. If the Kingdom hall is at risk, which it should be, depending on the part.of the world you live in, the elders will be told to leave you andy our family alone.
There is zero reason to be victimized by these idiots. They play on people’s ignorance of.the law. Yes, they have freedom to practice religion, and freedom.of speech. They also have accountability for their actions. The quickest way to stop any and all of there tactics is by using the laws that are designed to protect us from these types of things.
Please understand I know exactly their reaction, I put them through this and know from 2 of the elders 1 who is now a happy apostate. They were told to leave me alone and do nothing. The elder who is now a close friend was was shocked and angry when told that any of their actions if they were sued would fall on him and the other elders. WT wanted nothing to do with it. That was the beginning of his fade.
Please spread the word. There doesn’t have to be any more victims of elders prying, meddling and breaking up families.
PS In an earlier time when a man tried to take another man’s wife, he would get the h*!! beat out of him. The threat of legal action is the nicest and most civilized way to handle it.
Does that apply in UK?
Most good attorneys will provide you with a free initial consultation to consider the merits of your individual case. The laws in the UK and the US governing slander and libel are very clear. They do provide for injunctive relief (order to cease talking about you) from the one slandering you and financial restitution for both the cost of litigation as well as financial loss.
WT has no interest in dealing with the ignorant rants of local elder bodies nor getting in numerous legal battles over Ex JWs leaving the borg. It is far easier for them to leave you alone than face possible punitive damages for allowing a BOE to harass you.
In the end, remember 2 things.
1. JW’s have no authority in the country where you live, other than the authority you willingly give them. No one outside JWs care what the WT or BOE have to say.
2. Their decisions and especially any type of lying or wrongful meddling falls directly under the courts of the UK. The courts do have authority over WT, the BOE and all of its citizens. That authority cannot be ignored. Most BOEs do not readily acknowledge this due to ignorance. However, they get whipped into shape quickly by Watchtower, because Watchtower definitely knows this to be true.
Know this, Watchtower is not as concerned with financial loss as they are having to apologize for bad policy. Look at how they defend the indefensible in the child molestation cases rather than providing apologies and seeking to improve their arbitrary rules.
You can be certain that elders talk to much about judicial matters with their wives and their wives talk to much to others. WT knows this all to well and does not want to have their club exposed and the whole system reworked as it was in the 1970s.
Elders who meddle will stop immediately when faced with legal action, make no mistake about it.
PS laws in the UK only allow 1 year from the date of the slander or libel for you to file your case.
Best Wishes
Thank you for that practical advice. You’re right, in days gone by, things were settled a little more directly and efficiently. :) In today’s Age of Enlightenment, if you bopped someone in the nose for sticking it in your affairs, YOU are the “BAD GUY”!!! LOL…LMAO…LMAOOL :) :) :)
P.S. Jehovah’s Witness Elders & Overseers really are nothing but a mob of meddling busybodies. Someone suggested they all go out and ‘get a job’. Wiser advice I have never heard.
P.P.S. To those who fear dissociating themselves because they’ll lose “friends” and “family”, trust me, speaking from personal experience, YOU’RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM.
I meant JW elders & overseers are nothing but a mob of meddling busybodies AND BULLIES.
Why should expect from them what they do not have? These untrained people are used as robots through letter to BOE are merely ‘slaves’ who are used by an angered god which regrets to have created man in its image (Genesis 6:6)!!
“To those who fear dissociating themselves because they’ll lose “friends” and “family”, trust me, speaking from personal experience, YOU’RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT THEM.”
How would you like to be 60 years old and have to start over again? I face the latter years of my life alone. If I could do things differently, you bet I would.
@Badash. You are right. Facing the later years alone and making new friend is pretty difficult when you are 60 years old. It is a difficult situation to be in and I feel for you a lot. Maybe you can just fade a little at a time and pop up at meetings once in a while to “SAVE FACE”? I am not sure what the answer is in your situation bc I do not know the entire ordeal but I know it is not easy for you or anyone else in similar situation. My heart goes out to you.
Maybe get involved with some social or exercise organizations, meet new people, Sports, study at school, prop courses anything different and meet new people. Even a “NORMAL” religion may offer something new. The JW’s and WT will chew you up and spit you out after a lifetime of association if you DARE to have a different view point or see things differently.
I agree with you Badshah…. my first doubts arose when I was 20…I ignored them because I feared my parents…and now I have no one who is not a jw… I really adore my lovely and kind but disillusional husband…and I love my wonderful children…who would shun me if I just left…I could never cope with that situation…I got baptised at 13 after being brought up in a disfunctional witness home…Im 57 so you should ubderstand that 44 years a slave is very hard to break free from when you really have nowhere to go….I wish you well my friend…60 years is a lifetime of lies and my heart breaks for you.
I have been alone for 8 years now and all I get from the society is marry in the lord. Are they out of their cotton picking mind! I wouldn’t have a JW for a marriage mate if my life depended on it… oh wait… they said that. No I would not. I am 49, single, not bad looking and have two cats. I like LOTR and such like. I love Deep Purple etc etc etc…. My kds mean the world to me but I totally refuse to have the WT dictate to me whom I should marry. Think I am better off being crazy cat lady… at least it is unconditional.
I Could not agree with your statements more.
This is not a practical suggestion. Slander is almost impossible to prove. Especially since your witnesses would be in most cases hostile witnesses. But maybe just the mention of it would work.
In the case of proving slander, Jehovahs Witnesses are commanded to be truthful. We know that many are not, however WT has to gamble that you do not have witnesses and that they will prevail. Additionally conversations can be recorded in person, not over the phone. The in person conversations are admissable in the vast majority of courts. A smart Attorney can trap a liar with the evidence only bolstering the case to a victory.
To say a victory is guaranteed is not possible, however WT by far has way more to lose and would rather stay on firm footing than pursue someone that could shine a light on to their treachery. WT when given the option to avoid facing civil losses have almost always chose to back down unless the individual shows no desire to back off of their law suit.
As far as your comments that I have seen, they seem to be incoherent at best. Do you use multiple IPs to do hit and runs on these sites? Your grammer and vocabulary seem the same as a person who called himself Anthony.
PS Slander can be hard to prove when it is told to you in 3rd person. However you have a built in solid witness when talking about the person you are married to. Even if you sense that they will not cooperate, recording your conversations with them are solid proof of what is happening. Then a follow up confrontation with the slanderer armed with the information that you gathered can blow the case wide open. (Never share what you have with anyone but your attorney especially any recordings) Sometimes beating a bully like WT takes multiple attempts to solve, but once a legal precedent is set and a victory is gained WT is in deep and cannot recover.
It’s funny, I thought the same about your post. It’s seems your posts are rambling, incoherent and logically flawed. It also sounds like English is a second language to you. And it doesn’t appear like your an attorney as your assertions are ridiculous. You say that slander “is hard to prove when told to you in third person” shows right there a lack of legal knowledge. Check out the term hearsay. If you can apply it correctly to your erroneous statement then I will believe you may have some knowledge. It actually seems that your trying too hard to sound knowledgeable. My apologies if I sound to harsh. And I do admit that sometimes I don’t proof read what I am posting and spell check screws up my thoughts.
Markie/Anthony “Enigma”
You already know like I do that your posts will be deleted, so I wont waiste time replying to your foolish comment. It is obvious that you are attempting to derail an offense against the WT, by commenting while a discussion is active, hoping to mislead people. You know that if your comments are deleted later it won’t matter because people do not come back and reread the posts.
You offer no help to victims, rather you seek to poison them with a baseless arbitrary rejection of their right to seek legal help.
Your goal is obvious, protect the Watchtower.
If you have anything else to say, show some insight and help people. Otherwise your feeble attempts at pretending not to be a member of the borg trolling this site is painfully obvious. Your beloved WT’s days have been numbered.
@ everyone else
You have the right to legally defend what is yours. Watchtower is the only entity that would try and get you to believe otherwise. They are arrogant. If the laws vary in your area, find out what they are and then establish your case with the assistance of a competent attorney where appropriate. Watchtower has long used your money to defend themselves against you with lawyers. Just as they have constantly sought advice from their attorneys about this site and it’s contents to attempt to stop the truth from getting out. You no longer carry the burden of contributing for their lawyers if you are no longer a JW. Find out what your rights are and exercise those rights, especially if your family is at stake.
The poet Dylan Thomas said it best.
“Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light”
Fight for what is yours!
For reasons of anonymity I cannot go into all the details, but a friend of mine had something go down where the elder body and the CO were trying to enforce certain actions that violated his rights as protected by the laws of the land. He was fortunate enough to have everything well documented. He contacted his lawyer who in turn sent letters threatening legal action against all parties involved. The WT quickly reacted telling the elders and the CO to cease and desist all action and to never even speak of the situation again. So legal action does work in certain cases; having everything well documented is critical.
It always struck me that my friend received better treatment from the “worldly” legal system than his “brothers” who professed to “love” him.
WS
@ Winston Smith
Thanks for sharing that experience. As JWs we were told to use the elders and not the judicial system. It is hard to discern what your rights are how to proceed, or even if you can proceed against the borg when you leave.
I only knew to do it, because a brother who owned a business used his lawyer when he left and we were told the same thing, “cease and desist and not talk about it” So when I left, I thought it was very effective and used it myself. You are right to state that you have to document things.
Best regards to all
My mom is in a similar situation. Her congregation has her back when and if she decides to leave my step-dad just because he’s from a different belief. He’s actually tried going to a few meetings, but he saw some things that were not at all right, and who can blame him. He is such a good guy. I respect him profusely. He doesn’t deserve to be treated differently just because he refused to follow my mom into the Jehovah’s witnesses.
Don’t know if my original post got lost or will turn up if it does apologies now for repeating myself. I’m still at the fading stage. My husband thinks I will be out in about a year. I wonder if he is right. Like Jane we walk and talk a lot so that is good. He is even more active in the cong and like others I have said I would not oppose him. Our tricky situation is that we bred two superintelligent aspie kids for the borg but they don’t fit in lala land. I have said to him to be very careful in nurturing our children because you constantly damn higher education and promote window washing. This paradise he is so determined to work for will have very clean windows into eternity but no beautiful fragile minds who are capable of exquisite thought (in my opinion, god given). The continued trend to dumb everything down to one brain cell is not healthy and you as an org, you will reap what you sow . I hope I made him think because the way they fantasize about paradise now is all a bit silly, some are perpetually on bible studies and others are learning Hebrew whilst playing the piano and building log cabins. All those shiny windows and fat birds so lovely.Not a bible reading between them! I will maintain Jehovah’s Witnesses DO NOT read their bible or anyone elses for that matter. ruthlee
@ruthlee. THE JW’s only read selective scriptures and apply it to whatever situation they desire. They barley speak of Jesus or if they do it is in
the sense of “EXAMPLE” only and not in the sense of a savior or having a personal relationship with him. It amazes me that in many articles they will not even mention Jesus anymore. Look at some of the study articles and you will see his name rarely mentioned. If you read the Greek scriptures and gospels it is overwhelmingly speaking of Jesus and the love of the Christ etc. no mention of Jehovah’s Organization at all.
My Husband is an Elder, I have come to the realization that the Witnesses have misinterpreted God’s word and applied most scripture to benefit and further the organization. I am wanting to get away from this madness, but my poor disillusioned Husband is telling me I am wrong and just need to follow him and trust the “faithful and discreet slave”.!! I want out!! My marriage is upside down and I see no way out!! He says he will have to give up his Eldership, because he is responsible for me. I’m trying to “fade”, and it is not going well!! What can I do, I’m trying to show respect fir him. Please reply.
laura
What a difficult position the organization has placed you in! The ‘truth’ is supposed to set us free, not bind us with fear, obligation and guilt.
There are 2 videos that are worth reviewing, the 10 Tips John Cedars YouTube video (https://youtu.be/9qSq_ImQh5o) and the ExJW Critical Thinker video on Emotional Blackmail (https://youtu.be/_Un2IDfyJm0).
You are not alone.
Thank you for replying! At times I feel I’m losing my mind over this-I see the gap in my marriage. I’m putting full trust in my Heavenly Father to get me through this.
It seems WTS is fooling everybody!! They are now teaching JWs Women to “imitate” Jael therefore making them “executioner for Jehovah.”! Who are they taught to kill? Their husbands who leave their faith are the fist target… How can you teach women to kill and say you values marriage bonds?
Read for yourself about the insidious attack on the family: http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2015566?q=%28jael%29&p=par
Only idiots can failure to understand the idea behind “imitating Jael”!!
Speaking of cherry-picking scriptures–” Now Deborah, a prophet, the wife of Lappidoth, was leading[a (judging)] Israel at that time.” (Judges 4:4).
Does this mean we can soon expect to see a female appointed to the GB?
Very good comments, Today I was thinking the same thing that most of the comments highligh.
The governing body has replaced Jesus and God roles. In fact many have been disfellowpshiped and consequently treated as subhumans just because they loved truth.
So for example when you discuss the Trinity or about the pope position you research, study the Bible and come up with a conclusion.
If you use the same approach with understanding the organisation’s baptisimal questions or the interepretations of the overlapping generations and you love real truth you will surely understand that they have deverted from truth and reality.
You’ll not find in the Bible any reference that you need to follow any organisation to be saved or that Jesus refered to two generations.
The GB like many other questionable religious leaders build God in their image because their success comes first instead of love of truth and people.
The hypocrisy that stems from within the Org is disgusting. The above article is very true.
I know of two siblings who prior to becoming JWs had certain “issues” between them. They remained very close regardless of these issues and when they both became JWs, one went on to become an Elder and the other a Pioneer.
Years later the Elder discovered TTATT and left The Org. Dismayed to realise how they had been duped and brainwashed, he hastened to share his findings with his active JW sibling, who instantly cut all contact with him. The JW sibling then raked up all the issues that had happened prior to them becoming JWs and proceeded to hold these against the former Elder as well as castigating him as an apostate.
The former Elder developed a serious illness and was struggling. The JW sibling did not bother contacting him; showed no interest and offered no help or support, instead preferring to think that spending all their time pushing JW literature onto strangers was what mattered in life and was “what Jehovah would want”.
The JW sibling also had a daughter who had married a pioneer. After the pioneer husband also discovered TTATT and left the Org, the JW sibling immediately began nagging the daughter to leave her husband. So far the marriage is intact, but interestingly although there were problems in the marriage before, it was only after the daughter’s pioneer husband left the Org that the JW sibling tried to push her into divorcing him – as though it was the action of becoming an ex-JW that was what warranted ending the marriage.
I really cannot fathom how anyone can convince themselves that these actions are what the supposedly “loving God” (that they profess to worship), would approve of?
Deluded, hypocritical and without compassion I think.
I think you all are missing the point. A sister should be able to cut the kitchen in half. In other words learn to take a punch, then pray to jehovah to become a better wife! Dont yiu remember the recent watchtower? Shame on you. And please keep in mind yesterday’s watchtower about the fine example of the brother that downsized his janitorial business and did it remotely. That was a wonderful example.
Is your comment to be taken seriously, or was it a clumsy attempt at sarcasm? In other words, are you an asshole, or just an idiot?
Wow, are you stalking me? I guess it was too hard for you to understand my point. Your use of foul language and name calling makes your intellectual level apparent. Sounds like you listened very closely to the GB and did not pursue a higher education. You should be so proud of yourself. Also my I suggest that you reread the posting rules.
You’re purposefully argumentative and abrasive. Inexplicably, you’re confounded by the fact that–on a JW cult education/recovery site–you hear people speak disparagingly of that cult. You’re loving the attention you’ve gotten here in the past few days as a result of your passive-aggressive comments, and you want more.
Rather than replying to this with your idea of a clever comeback, just think about what I’m saying. If you can’t contribute to the peace and helpfulness of this site–and if most of what you read here irritates you–then this simply isn’t the place for you. Come back when you understand the need for a site like this– after you’ve been crushed by the cult, or have seen the people you care about crushed by it.
“You’re loving the attention you’ve gotten here in the past few days as a result of your passive-aggressive comments, and you want more.”
……….sounds like a case of Histrionic Personality Disorder
http://psychcentral.com/disorders/histrionic-personality-disorder-symptoms/
Well said. So tired of coming here and getting to the comments and having to scan over what that guy says (he has used a few different names now, hasn’t he?). This site is supposed to be a help for others, not a posting board for someone who enjoys being a jerk. I’ll continue to skip his comments. They’re a waste of time.
It’s kind of odd that your saying my posts are passive aggressive. Do you even know what that term means? Aren’t you the one calling me an asshole and an idiot?
I guess your hatred towards me colored your interpretation of what I posted.
It was obviously a facetious post. I guess you don’t recall a watchtower a year or so ago in the past that had the example of a sister that was physically abused by her husband and she was told it maybe was her fault because she wasn’t spritual enough and that she should pray more? They should have been called out on that paragraph. Even sued! It really was thoughtless and terrible. And last weekends watchtower example of the janitor! Now they are saying to be even less of a janitor??? What a joke. And just so that you know cutting the kitchen in half was a reference to a boxing term. Now do you understand? You know it’s never too late to go to college.
Do yourself a favor and don’t read my posts and I won’t read yours. May the peace of Allah be upon you (this is meant to be a joke).
Well, to be fair, with my initial comment I was trying to determine if you were an asshole OR an idiot. But if you’re thinking the abuse of a woman is a subject that should be handled with a facetious comment, dripping with sarcasm, then clearly you’re both.
I think it’s cute that you keep bragging about your supposed education. Rest assured, everyone reading your comments are beyond impressed with your mastery of the English language and your extraordinary communication skills.
If you’re determined to stay, then at least entertain the idea of making comments that are clear, respectful and helpful, rather than being so abrasive that it’s necessary for you to be called out on it. Please. I’m sincerely saying “please”.
@Markie
Could you provide the reference information (i.e. Watchtower/Awake date, page number, paragraph number if applicable) for the situations which you cited so that the folks on the site can get a better understanding of what your comments mean?
Thanks.
Jane, thank you for the wonderful article. It was well-written and beautifully expressed. It was also very sad.
My wife and I have been separated for 1.5 years. She is a regular pioneer of long-standing, and I am an ‘evil apostate.’ I made the mistake of officially disassociating myself in 2013. After that things became very strained between us, in particular because she was shunning me in our own home. It was a very difficult time for both of us.
I finally moved out. One afternoon, before I left, she sat down in our living room with me, and started to talk. She said that we were both good people, loved each other, but just too different. She said we could still be friends, but the marriage was unsustainable. I was actually relieved because I totally agreed. Neither she nor I could change enough to make it work. That was the trigger for me moving out.
From that day onward, the doors closed between us. She has ceased all communication with me, and changed the locks on our home. The shunning is intense- way beyond what they normally call for. I realize now, that she is being counseled to avoid me at all costs. My former friends are doubtlessly advising her to keep me away.
Most religions have some sort of marriage counseling and support. The Watchtower tears people apart. I know now that we will never reconcile, and part of the blame lies squarely on this vile and destructive cult!
Thanks again for the article.
GOODSHAH One soul sister’s heart bleeds for you.ruthlee
From what I personally observed when I was a witness, it was crystal clear that the religion was always to be number one in a person’s life. It was to be more important than the relationship between a husband and wife and more important than the relationship between parents and children.
I have heard it said that it is apparent that the watchtower doesn’t just divide families – it destroys families. It has destroyed my family as well.
@ ROB. My wife and I are currently separated. She is a staunch Pioneer and is extremely headstrong JW and worships the GB and anything they say. All of our married years were difficult. She ALWAYS and still does put religion first and VERY much to the detriment of our relationship. That has been my biggest complaint. She would pioneer and not take care of any of her responsibilities as I would go off to work. She would spend money like an addicted drug addict. Whenever I would get upset about it she would spend more. I said then you need to quit pioneering and get a JOB! She would say oh no.. the end is so near why do we need more money? It was an is a vicious cycle. I could never have a normal discussion or open forum bc if I showed any doubt or reasoning against the Wacko teachings she would go nuts or cry etc. So after many years I just could not do it anymore as I watched her focus over and over on her “BIBLE Studies: KH projects, assemblies, conventions, and anything JW or WT and neglect myself and our kids. I could go on and on but I think you guys see the picyure. Oh yes, another thing… I got baptized in the mid 70’s as a 20 year old and got married quickly after that bc WT policy was if you date..you need to marry them..! She never wanted to have children either bc the end was so near and children would be a burden in the GT which was imminent in her mind and the minds of JW’s.
I had to “SNEAK” a few kids in during my youth or I would be childless today. Her dream was to pioneer and make converts.We continued to grow apart. I felt bad to see her crying when I would not go to meetings and faded away as a JW Elder. So a few months ago she decided to move out which she did and on her way out raided my bank account
which I held in both names for over $150000 US dollars! Nice Pioneer ha? I talked with the elders and despite that they told her not to leave she did anyway.
The Governing Body knows where it is heading… Marital bonds are nothing before their hidden agenda. They have created what they call “Jael class” = “Other Sheep” ready to act as robots even in splitting marital bonds…
*** su chap. 16 p. 128 par. 15 What Will You Personally Do? ***
As is true of other non-Israelite worshipers of Jehovah, Jael pictures the “other sheep” who do good to Christ’s spiritual brothers. Regardless of what ties their close relatives may have to the world and its ruling class, the “other sheep” do not approve of oppression of Jehovah’s people by worldly rulers. Their loyalty is to the Greater Barak, the Lord Jesus Christ, and to his true followers. These of the Jael class do not personally raise a hand against the worldly rulers, but they use whatever is at their disposal to counteract efforts to oppress Jehovah’s servants. They do not hold back from making known that they are in full harmony with Jehovah’s purpose to destroy all of his enemies
“the Jael class… use whatever is at their disposal to counteract efforts to oppress Jehovah’s servants. They do not hold back from making known that they are in full harmony with Jehovah’s purpose to destroy all of his enemies”!! That’s where marital bonds are sacrificed as “the Jael class” supports “the John Class”!!
@Alexandria R
Has your sister’s son-in-law been able to get professional help from a counsellor/therapist/psychologist for his alcoholism, manic depressive bi-polar condition?
Whereas the WT does not forbid a JW seeing a psychiatrist or psychologist, it does however speak disparagingly of these professions as the following excerpts show and so JWs may not be inclined to seek help from these professionals who are trained to deal with these complex situations:
Watchtower 1990 September 1 p.15
“The sister then told her how a knowledge of Bible truth had helped her. She had lost an 18-year-old daughter in death and had gone into a state of deep depression for eight years. Neither psychiatrists nor costly medications helped her to overcome this depression. Several times, she said, she was hospitalized, but no improvement resulted. Her household was taken care of by servants because she herself was not able to take care of anything. She tried to commit suicide because she had lost interest in life. Nothing seemed to help.
Then, she told the lady, one day Jehovah’s Witnesses called and left her some Bible literature. That sparked her interest in God’s Word, and she began to read the Bible all the way through. Something started to change within her. She began to get up in the morning and take an interest in her household. She finally decided to take care of the house by herself and found she was able to do so. It was as though she had never been sick! This made her feel very happy.
She did not return to the psychiatrist. Her will to live was stimulated by her knowledge of God’s Word, and this proved to be the best medicine. She looked for Jehovah’s Witnesses, and they started a regular study with her. She also began to attend meetings, and very soon she got baptized. No longer bothered with depression, she now finds joy in serving Jehovah.”
Watchtower 1988 Oct 15 p.29
“What, though, about accepting treatment from a psychiatrist or a psychologist? This would be a personal decision to be made with due caution. … Of even more concern is the fact that some well-intentioned practitioners have given advice that flatly contradicts the Bible. … Does the physician understand and respect the beliefs of Jehovah’s Witnesses?”
Awake! 1975 August 22 p.25
“Is the turning of people from the clergy to the psychiatrists a healthy phenomenon? No, for it really is a case of jumping from the frying pan into the fire. They are worse off than they were before… That they are not the ones to go to for help when one is depressed and beset with all manner of problems is to be seen from the fact that suicides among them are twice as frequent as among the population in general… what is needed at such times is not worldly psychiatrists who may wholly ignore the change that the truth and God’s holy spirit have made in one’s life and who know nothing of their power to help one put on a new Christian personality. Rather, what is needed at such times is a mature Christian in whom one has confidence and who is vitally interested in one’s welfare and who will not shrink back from administering needed reproof or counsel so that one may get healed.”
Awake! 1960 March 8 p.27
“As a rule, for a Christian to go to a worldly psychiatrist is an admission of defeat, it amounts to ‘going down to Egypt for help.’ Isaiah 31:1. Often when a Witness of Jehovah goes to a psychiatrist, the psychiatrist will try to persuade him that his troubles are caused by his religion, entirely overlooking the fact that the Christian witnesses of Jehovah are the best-oriented, happiest and most contented group of people on the face of the earth. They have the least need for psychiatrists. Also, more and more psychiatrists are resorting to hypnosis, which is a demonic form of worldly wisdom.”
@Dee and Hakiaimana Jean…You guys both nailed it on the heard and your research proves that the WT is a Cult withtheir archaic unscientific and un medical Ideas. It is like they are telling the JW R&F..”Just drink this Cool aid” and everything will be fine. We don’t need and professional help from Worldly people bc they are from the Devil and “WE” are the happiest people on earth! In my 22 plus years as an ACTIVE JW I never saw or experienced all of these HAPPY JW’s. I saw more depression and problems than I could deal with.
Great research guys.
@dee Do you have any references regarding the Watchtower’s view on psychology since 1990? (more recent?)
Good going Jane,
Glad to know that you didn’t allow the JWs to destroy your marriage and that both of you are out of that life-destroying cult. You certainly haven’t lossed anything by leaving the JWs when you consider that there is a possibility that marital bliss may come to an end in the WT’s fairy tale paradise:
Watchtower 1952 Aug 1 p.478:
“When the mandate to fill the earth is fulfilled, when childbearing ceases, the marriage partners may continue their association together as life companions, OR THEY MAY NOT (caps mine), depending upon the divine will at that future, distant time.”
Personal opinions of the WT writer(s) at the time. No surprise there. What’s amazing is how they don’t really think about it before putting it to print (or at least they don’t appear to). That previous statement is tantamount to saying that God created a deficient product. ‘Oh dear; I seem to have created these beings with the ability & desire to procreate. In the future, when everyone is perfect and lives forever then the earth will get full and I’ll have to fix that.’
Sorry but God is nothing like humans. We have the knack of making what seem great products (aerosol sprays spring to mind) and then a few years down the line realise that they need modifying due to flaws or pollution.
I know you atheists will disagree but please go with me on this one as (hopefully) you’ll see where my reasoning is leading…
Hang on though, God created a HUGE universe and for whose benefit? Anything in this physical universe is for OUR benefit, not for any spirit creatures so when the earth gets full then surely God will make some way for us to populate other planets (as he can make them life sustaining as he did with the Earth). The Bible says that he always has a purpose in creating something so creating the universe so grand makes me think it has to be for human population eventually.
That option is much more likely than God saying his human design is flawed and will stop the reproductive & marriage process.
So the reason I said all that is to highlight that if I can come up with something like that, and I don’t claim to be anointed or guided by God, how on EARTH could some of the WTS writers come up with such far-out, non-biblical reasoning????
Rant over!
Remember somewhere it says jealousy is rottenness to the bones. Well the bones of this old religion are rotten and porous and fit for fertilizer. It seems to me if you have ANY advantage be it money, happiness, brains, even beauty, the org insists on undermining the best you have. It is like the greedy grave never enough. The thing is in this information age everything is being exposed for what it is and these edicts from HQ don’t stand up any more. I wonder how long before they stop harassing the gunfodder ie those who attempt to stray as it will be too much hassle and start to bite the party faithful. That will be an interesting turn of events. I have seen many marriages that seem fairly stable and happy, be picked on to undermine the couple. The usual jibe is they have too much leisure time together. Well good for them the more they miss those horrid meetings and spend time together the longer the marriage may last. Is that not what god wants? Strong families who actually know each other. Its a fact pioneer sisters know more about cong gossip than they do their husband’s interests because those meddlers are bored with their own family so target others. Then if really sneaky report back to elder hubby .So then who rocks the cradle of the baby cong?. I can only summize the disintegration of normal but struggling families may well lay at the door of the idle gossips as they cannot resist a soap opera. Soaps have been banned from viewing since the80’s so they create their own within the cong. Elders never deal with this because it gives them something to do on their day off . It’s all a bit daft if we stop and think about it. I think the best thing I have read in my journey out is make the best success of life outside the org, as that is the best victory. For those who can salvage their marriage I think it’s worth the try and at least you can say it was without the help of fussy sisters and sheepish elders its your hardwork and determination. How dignifying that would be. ruthlee
I’m no longer a JW and agree the cult is dangerous to all JW but I think the site is losing the focus and might lose credibility trying to find too many faults on JWs.
They are nice people but unfortunately they are blinds. Let’s help them to open their eyes.
Marcos, I agree with you that it is important to help people open their eyes, but it is also a very difficult task to try to rationalize with individuals, who when it comes to anything about this religion are sometimes irrational.
I have in the past tried to reason calmly with my relatives, showing them the reasons why I could no longer support this religion, and the only answer I ever recieved was “wait on Jehovah” He will make things right.
In the meantime I saw so many injustices and so many people who were thrown away and shunned by families.
In my eyes this religion was not a place that I felt was directed by God, but by man and lawyers. Unfortunately any further discussions I had with my relatives turned into inquisitions and suspicions of apostasy and so I simply stopped talking with them about the religion. Maybe I am a coward but in the end each individual must make their own choices and decide whether this religion is right for them.
Totally agree! It’s hard to help them.
An interesting comment about too much fault finding with the jws Thats maybe true but it is the behaviour of the nice people that has it’s effect on those that are harmed by the religion. I struggle to comprehend which came first the skewed doctrine or the type of people who believe that type of thing and then act accordingly. I think it’s hard to say. I heard an expression once “the disease to please” maybe that is why generally jws act so nice they genuinely want to please people, obey rules, have structure in life .However if it goes against decent human kindness and the unwritten laws of humanity the whole system becomes flawed.One lie begets another so you can still be nice but lie through your teeth.ruthlee
@ruthlee
your comment:
“if it goes against decent human kindness and the unwritten laws of humanity the whole system becomes flawed”
Very well said.
How true. One cannot create decent people through rules and obedience. Decency must come from the heart.
This was a great story..
The Gv body and the elders are hypocrits and liars…
Its becoming clearer and clearer that they are not lead by Jehovah..they say one thing in one article and go against it in another..
And then deliberately lying about “This generation” shows their lead by Satan ..no one should regret leaving these hypocritical leaders who left God..
Redgreenyellow,
Exactly! You only have to watch the ARC & the final submission from Angus Stewart to see the lies that have been exposed by these men in high places in the org.
Look at the WTS solicitor’s lie in response to the statement about shunning (near the end of the report).
In many places they accuse the ARC of false statements. Their conduct is inexcusable.
An elder from the congregation I used to go to called me this morning. He said the C.O. is here and they want to meet with me for a shepherding call this coming thursday. Does anyone know why a C.O. would want to meet with me? I can’t think of anything I’ve done wrong. I’m inactive but I never heard of a C.O. meeting with an inactive person. I didn’t cooperate so the brother said he will find something else for the C.O. to do that day. I’m wondering does anyone on this web site know why a C.O. would meet with me? It doesn’t make sense. I’m not meeting with them.
Alexandria R
Good for you. Tell them to mind their own business. We had a couple of Elders wanting to bring the CO as well but I firmly said no, they would be wasting their time. It was well & truly over for me.
Also, I wondered whether it can sometimes be a competition for some to see who will be the one to save us so that they can brag about it at the next assembly.
Alexandria,
The CO WOULDN’T want to meet with you. Don’t take that the wrong way but seeing as his role is to supervise the spiritual well-being of all the congs in the circuit and report back to HQ on current trends he sees, he really doesn’t have the time to focus on individuals in the congs. When he visits the congregations he just meets with individuals or families that the body of elders suggest need a visit.
They should be encouraging visits and usually are for sick or elderly ones that maybe can’t make it often to the meetings. They should NEVER be used as a board for the elders to discipline/tell off.
Average Joe’s explanation is in line with my own experience, Alexandria. After I stepped “down” as an MS and stopped going to the meetings, a dear friend of mine who was an elder requested of the visiting CO that he have a shepherding call with me for my encouragement.
With no embellishment to the story, I can tell you that the guy looked like he was in agony having to waste his time in a room with just an elder and a lowly publisher. I mean, I myself was only there because my friend wanted me to be there, but I was respectful and open to whatever encouraging things the CO might say.
But, nope. The guy couldn’t stop squirming, and even looked at his watch a few times. He said a few unimaginative things, and that was it. When it came time for the prayer, though the CO was obviously getting ready to do it, I politely asked my friend if he would do it.
I was disgusted. It was just another “nail in the coffin” for this cult for me– not that any more nails were necessary, and not that a jerk CO ranks among the worst problems with the Org.
But let me end on a positive note. That elder remained my dear friend until he died. Among other things, he had gone “to bat” for disrespected and mistreated sisters more than once. Two of them were especially precious to me. He wasn’t afraid of other elders, and he wasn’t afraid of not being an elder should his going “against the tide” on some important issues cause that to happen. But it never did. He was a good man. Not perfect, but good. And I appreciated that very much.
Thank you, thank you, thank you everyone. I am very relieved. I was actually feeling scared. I didn’t know WHAT was going on. I think it was probably the elder’s suggestion. Thank you I can sleep now.
@JB Reezner
Your late friend sounds like a top bloke and hopefully my friends in the cong view me the same way. I’m certainly not one to go with the flow just for a peaceful life. Either something is right or it is not. Too much personal opinion and WTS “man made opinions” get pushed in the congregations today. That’s probably why so many good elders stand down.
You’re an asset to this site, AJ. I always appreciate the positivity in your comments and your down-to-earth manner. I have no problem believing that you take the JW interpretation of Isaiah 32:1,2 very seriously and do your best to live up to it. (Did you just get me to cite a scripture??)
Seriously, you’re a class act, my friend.
I’m glad you said no… I assume you did by your comment. I had a couple of elders come to my house for ‘encouragement’. It turned out, right at the end they wanted to ask about me attending my df’d sons wedding. I would imagine that the honey would turn to vinegar in your case. I could be wrong but one has to assume the worst. I don’t trust them. This is totally personal of course. I will now refuse any offers of a ‘shepherding’ call. I will refuse any ‘meetings’. They cannot force you attend anything so please be very careful. I found the strength I needed came from this site. The less said the better. I told them my conscience was clear and so far I have heard nothing back, but I must admit that the elders do give me wide berth at the hall. It’s almost like ‘they know that I know’. I will always be truthful with them because thats who I am…. I don’t lie. It will get me df’d in time I am sure but I am building up friendships outside the hall in the mean time.
BTW my daughter and I actually did have a CO visit us and it was the most embarrassing hour ever. This guy didn’t know us from Adam. Had very little to say and what he did say was not of comfort to us. I think that was the first time I had ever met him. He never acknowledged my existence after that and his wife even walked past me in the store.
@ Tiger123
Thank you for the GOOD legal advice, and for standing up boldly to trollers who try to “derail” noble efforts, using slander and insulting language. Logically, even IF, and I emphasize “IF”, legal means are ineffective, IT NEVER HURTS TO TRY!!!!! Never be bullied by ANYONE, EVER!!!!!
P.S.
I sympathize, no, I EMPATHIZE, with those who have to “start over”, whether in their 20s, 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, or 100s, and with those who fear breaking off, at all. I have been there. Many others too. I agree, it is NOT easy. Most things in life worth doing, are not easy. But it IS do-able. It will take courage, faith, and perseverance. I truly believe that age is just a number. Don’t let society impose their perceived limitations on you just because you are X number of years old. Chances are, the older you are, the more you have to offer. Believe in yourself. Remember, most Jehovah’s Witnesses are in that cult because they seek the EASY path! It’s easier to let someone else do all your thinking and decision-making. Is that what you want? I lost all my friends and family in the “truth”. And I AM better off for it. Thousands who have left must feel the same way, or they would still be in the borg, wouldn’t they?
P.S.
To anyone who might think I’m just talking the talk but not walking the walk, after years of fading, I recently mailed in a letter of disassociation, at age 55.
When the elders asked to meet with me, I respectfully declined.
We all rail against the Governing Body as well as the Bodies of elders, and overseers, etc. As well we should! However, it is highly unrealistic to expect that those twisted lunatics will ever fix themselves. I place much of the blame on the non-JW world, who consistently do NOTHING, even in the face of overt criminal activity such as child abuse. North Korea is “an evil regime.” Terrorists are “evil.” Back in the day, the FBI burned down David Koresh’s compound in Waco, including 80 people, over 1/4 of whom were children. Yet, the Watchtower Cult is still viewed simply as “nice people just practicing their religion.” Anyone smell a DOUBLE STANDARD?
It seems to me the rest of the world is giving these Trolls a free pass!
Interesting article. I had the complete opposite experience. My elder husband decided he no longer believed and said he needed a ‘break’. I was sad but but agreed. He said he loved me and we could remain married just not “talk about religion”. Ha! What a joke. He couldn’t not talk if he tried. He filled our computer full of ‘notes’, mostly cut and paste from sites like this. To me, it was offensive. Had he not ‘attacked’, I would have stayed but that was not the case. No one in the congregation tried to encourage me to leave. They encouraged me to think carefully about any decisions I made. I made that decision on my own because he was making my life miserable. He could have slipped away and done whatever but he didn’t. Now he is SHUNNING ME and has filed for divorce. He is SHUNNING his parents. He can’t even call and check on their well being when I inform him of health concerns. I have often said, “I’d follow him to the ends of the earth in the truth, I wouldn’t follow him across the street, without.” Why? Well because he’s very unstable. The truth gave him a stability he’d never had. He left when he was 19, came back at 40 and full steam ahead to be an elder (this was not my desire, it was his)….now he leaves again. Sound stable? He’ll blame it all on ‘the truth’. He drinks because of the truth, he doesn’t fit in because of the truth, he can’t maintain a relationship because of the truth,…blah, blah. I have long term friendships (decades long) and joy in life, every day. I don’t need all this complaining and ‘cult’ talk. ~BORING~ Peace friends…. I love my people.
Then why are you on this site??? “Apostates” don’t get in your face, coming to your door, with their “complaining and ‘cult’ talk”. You are free to live your life as you choose. It seems that even your husband did not try to pressure or intimidate you into changing, the way JW’s pressure and intimidate family members who are not all gung-ho in the “Truth” (I speak from my own PERSONAL experience btw). So I ask again, what are you doing on this site? You say you have “joy in life,” but there must be something missing.
Meme, the reason your husband left you is because you put the “love” of the people at the Kingdom Hall above the love of your family.
I see it all the time. Most of the kids who didn’t want anything to do with the “truth” when they grew up, had at least one pioneer parent who put the love of service and studies above their family.
All Witnesses are to put the love of “Jehovah” (Organization) above family. Face it. Your husband knew that you need the “love” of the congregation more than him. That feeling of being included at the Hall, is what makes you fulfilled.
I loved being with the “friends” when I went in service too and I felt my conscience was clear if I could go out. My conscience was clear if I went to the meetings. But if I couldn’t get out in service or if I was too tired to go to a meeting, I felt really depressed. I never felt like I could do enough and when I realized that I wasn’t preaching the “truth” at all, that huge cloud of guilt lifted from me and that horrible depressed feeling left.
Your husband came to realize that the whole religion is a sham and he is making a life for himself and believe me, he is happier away from it and you because he realized what you are all about and no, he doesn’t sound “stable” to me but then neither do you sound stable to me either and believe me, what can make a person “unstable”, is a religion that makes you an unfeeling zombie.
You might think those people at the hall are your real “friends” but if you question even one of the teachings, you will be kicked out so fast, you won’t believe it. They are not real friends. You just think they are.
Most of us here, know that a real friend will listen to you if you stop going to meetings. They won’t assume that you have gone satanic.
A couple days ago, I ran into a brother from the Kingdom Hall and he didn’t know that I had been marked and we got to talking. I finally told him that I just don’t believe in the Bible any more and he made a comment like “I hope you don’t get involved in evil spirits now”. It was unbelievable how Witnesses are made to think. We have known each other for fifty years and when I told him that I didn’t believe in the Bible anymore, what came out of his mouth stunned me.
You are brainwashed into thinking the JW religion is the “truth” but everyone who belongs to a religion thinks the same thing, that they are the only ones who have the real “truth”.
You need to be able to examine your religion to make sure it’s the “truth” before selling it door to door. If you can’t examine your religion to make sure it’s the “truth” on the threat of being expelled and shunned, then that should be a red flag to you.
“Your husband knew that you need the “love” of the congregation more than him.” – BINGO, yes I did. What does that tell you? He wasn’t enough for me to lose everything else. I’ll admit it! I own it. Should I live in a world of negativity and misery because that’s what he wants? I wish him well. I love him, even. But he wore me out. I hope he finds one of you and lives happily ever after.
My husband didn’t leave me….I walked out the front door like a big girl. Yes he did try to change my thinking. I’m stronger mentally and emotionally then he is. I know who I am. You all are always saying, oh I’m labeled an apostate, you can’t talk to me. Here I am and you tell me to leave…. no worries! Have fun : )
Meme, I misunderstood your comment. Then what happened was that he was the one that went “apostate” and tried to talk you out of the “truth” and you couldn’t take it any more and left him? I am like your husband then. I want to talk to my husband to tell him all that I have learned about the organization and he gets upset and gets loud and angry if I try and tell him anything. I would like to talk him out of the truth too but at least when he refuses to listen to me, I will quit talking, unlike your husband. I can understand it that you left if he wouldn’t stop talking about it.
Are you saying then that you love the “truth” and the people at the hall? If so, then why are you visiting a site like this, which would be considered “apostate”?
I don’t think any of us want to be married to your husband, just so you know. We all have had our problems with mates who are either still brainwashed into the truth or were and we don’t want that kind of grief either.
My husband was an elder for ten years too and then left for ten years and came back strong just like your husband and I consider my husband a nut case. When he was “out” I tried talking him into coming to meetings and telling him over and over again “no matter what people do to you, you can’t blame Jehovah”.
Now when he’s the one that believes and I don’t, the shoe is on the other foot so I tell him that he was out for ten years, so I have eight and half years to go to catch up to him.
The difference between him and me is that he didn’t tell anybody about 607 or the United Nations affiliation (because even if he found out about it, he wouldn’t care anyway) and they didn’t mark him like they did me. He just decided to take a vacation for ten years and let me try and bring up our three kids in the “truth” by myself. I am sure if he had learned stuff like that about 607 and the U.N. and told anybody about it and they had marked him like they did me, he wouldn’t want anything to do with it either.
Meme,
That’s why I don’t think that Witnesses should be going in the door to door ministry trying to convert people. People don’t want it but they are just being pleasant with their non interest.
The householder is politely telling Witnesses that they are happy & that they too love their people. Sometimes it’s good to see things from other peoples perspective, so next time you go out in the ministry think about how your husband made you feel & then you can see how the person on the other side of the door must be feeling.
Peace to you too.
If you don’t want it, you say…’No thank you’, or better yet just put up a sign, No JW. I totally respect that.
My husband was a bully in the truth. No wonder he was unhappy. He didn’t want me watching shows like Dr Phil. He got mad because I said some xmas lights were pretty. He wouldn’t attend a large gathering because my df’d brother was there, no contact necessary. I attended, he dropped me off and picked me up, that was uncomfortable. People can use there heads. Ones who leave were probably the most self righteous of them all.
I love the ministry and often have nice conversations with people. I love people. My husband clearly did not.
Sounds like the “”truth” gave him a stability”
you could do without!
P.S.
Religious persecution works both ways!!!!!!!!!!
Meme,
I don’t doubt that your husband was a bully. I believe you. I’m just coming from the point of view that you are saying that he enforced his opinions on to you which you didn’t want & didn’t ask for.
Witnesses do the same. I had many friends that I made once I left outside of the “truth” that asked me the best way of telling JW’s to not come back because they are by nature not rude people & they feel sorry for them.
When you say that people can just put a sign up on their door, isn’t that asking a bit much from people? Would you want to put signs up that say you don’t want people coming around trying to influence your thinking with their version of truth? Especially if you haven’t asked for it.
When you talk about the “truth” with these people, do you give them the more palatable, sweetened version of it so that they will give you a foot in? Because what you’re in essence doing is introducing them to a bullyish religion. (read the Australian Royal Commission website Case Study 29 to see what I mean by bullyish).
After all, would you go up to a householder you just met & tell them that if they don’t become Witnesses, they will be killed at Armageddon? Would you also tell them that if they left the religion they would be shunned by everyone that they initially got love bombed with in the KH? These are things that the unsuspecting householder isn’t aware of until they get fully indoctrinated.
I’m just saying this because these were the questions that I started to ask myself when I was still in. It wasn’t until I realised that no one has the absolute monopoly on “truth” & that religion is FAITH BASED, it is one persons faith to another. All religions believe they have the truth. So I felt that it was rude of me to go unannounced to someone’s personal property & try to influence their thinking with something that I knew was unprovable. This is just my 2 cents.
:)Respect.
It’s funny but I went to a ‘therapist’ today who knows I am a ‘fading’ witness. He is a miniter in his church and we often chat… Today he told me that he and his son went into the bush to chop down a ‘christmas tree’ then went home and decorated ‘christmas tree’.. he told me that the cong. got together as a group and had a ‘pot luck’ and helped each other out and and had fun… he is a total brat and knows it. I told him I can’t wear yoga pants, I can’t read LOTR, I can’t talk to my df’s son and must be submissive to the FDS. He told me my religion was a cult and we had a good laugh. I love my new friends although I also admitted that I would NEVER belong to another religious organisation as long as I lived.
Worship in Spirit and in truth, no religion required to follow Christ.
I am so glad your marriage worked out for you. I began fading in July when on the July video on jw broadcasting claimed that it had been the wbts position to go to the police in cases of child sex abuse, which was not true since they in that very month were being investigated by the Australian Royal Commission for not going to the police. The friends, including the elders can be strange. They don’t always handle things properly or lovingly. I know this from personal experience. Some elders even had the gall to spread lies about me. You are told that you cannot worship God acceptably without the wt organization. I read the Bible and pray daily. I feel God’s loving care for me. I am glad to be away from an organization that refuses to see the forest for the trees, so to speak. I feel free, as I am sure you do as well.
If there’s one thing the Elders know how to do, it’s LIE.
WBTS answers to Australian Royal Commission.
So ‘slick’, so condescending, so deluded…
becomes obvious, Pixar and the Lawyers are at the
wheel of the ‘Clown Car’. Beyond sad, WE ARE “Am Haarets”, but in finality clarifies something I’d never thought I’d realize/say about my birth religion….2 Cor. 11:13,14…. God, please help me rescue my family……
Bible passage you quoted, perfectly describes these false prophets.
Here’s a prayer for you, my friend: “God, Please save us from Your followers”
@Meme
“He wasn’t enough for me to lose everything else.”
…But wasn’t he one of the SUPERAWESOME ELITE…an ELDER…one of the CHOSEN FEW??? Sounds like you gave up quite a catch! ;)
@ dee
Thank you for those hilarious quotes.
‘The Christian Witnesses of jehovah are the best-oriented, happiest, most contented peoples on the face of the Earth. They have the least need for psychiatrists.’
…LMAOOOOOOOO :) :) :)
@Markie
I understood the sarcasm in your “kitchen” comment. I don’t know what the others are criticizing you for. I guess great minds think alike. ;)
P.S. I don’t think the use of sarcasm is “facetious” at all. Sarcasm can be a very effective tool in getting a point across, especially when discussing REAL a**holes like the governing body, with all the BS they spew out, eg. some of the stuff Markie mentioned.
P.P.S. No offence, and not to be preachy, but one really should be sure as they can of the intent of someone’s statements before jumping all over them and calling them nasty names. There will always be misunderstandings, and we’ve all been guilty of jumping to conclusions, so I’m the last person to presume to judge, but as I said, I would try to be as clear as possible of someone’s intent, no matter how many times I needed to reread a comment. Otherwise, we’re no better than some Cop who blows someone away because they were reaching for their wallet… ;)
Peace
Anonymous4, I hope I didn’t offend you with my sharp reaction to a gross mishandling of the subject of the physical abuse of women. From the beginning, I acknowledged that the commenter may have been attempting to make a point, but that sarcasm was not the way to do it with this sensitive of a subject. Some of the women who visit this site have been victims of the monstrous crime mentioned in the comment. They don’t deserve the insult of encountering a flippant “shame on you” in a purposefully facetious comment about one of the most painful issues of their lives.
Likely, ALL sisters who have been in the Org have–at least once–been spoken to in an arrogant and insensitive way by some dense JW elder who was woefully unqualified to handle ANY type of serious matter. To not have the decency to speak to women in a respectful and caring way when dealing with serious issues is reprehensible. Some sisters have been utterly crushed by these callous fools who had undue authority over their lives. Witnessing that far too often–among other things–contributed to my waking up from the JW cult.
But really, I write that only to explain my feelings to any of the people here who I care about who may have wondered about my reaction to the comment in question. But as for you, you poured it on thick to Tiger123 as you lambasted Markie as one of those “trollers who try to “derail” noble efforts, using slander and insulting language”. But only a day later, you’re singing Markie’s praises and proudly noting your agreement with him by saying “great minds think alike”.
Whoever you are, I think it may be time to sign in as Anonymous5 and start over. Anonymous4 is suffering from some credibility issues.
Sorry, I did not recall that it was Markie who said those negative things about legal action and spoke disparagingly to the one who suggested it. My apologies, however, you must understand, I do not keep a little notepad by my desk to keep track of who said what. I still stand by comments, except perhaps the “great minds think alike” thing. As for you, you don’t seem to have learned a thing from MY comments, still jumping to conclusions. You also seem to be quite liberal with the use of sarcasm. As for the issue of spousal abuse, Markie’s sarcasm was obviously directed at the stupid and insensitive policies of the WT Society. That’s how sarcasm works. You may want to look it up in the dictionary. See, that was an example of sarcasm right there. As for women who have experienced abuse, why don’t YOU show them some respect and let them speak for themselves, instead of acting as their self-appointed spokesperson? If you have taken up the role of their Protector, you have obviously been doing a woefully inadequate job! And thanks for the advice regarding the name change, but anonymous4 is working just fine for me, Thank you very much.
Peace
@ Markie
Stop confusing people. Pick a side and stick with it. Don’t be a pu**y.
I’m not a self-appointed anything. The comment offended me personally, so I personally responded to it. And sarcasm is a second language to me, which means I know when NOT to use it. But rather than having me re-explain everything from my clearly worded comment to you, we should just move on.
And as you say, the anonymous4 persona is working fine for you. I’ll leave you to your current course of jumping into more and more discussions with increasingly erratic comments. We’ve seen this all before.
@ JB
I never said that “great minds think alike” comment. I do not use that expression at all. Either someone has hijacked my sign in name or you are confused. To save an additional response, if you have the supposed reference, please tell me where it is and I will contact JWsurvey and see who is hijacking my sign in name. It could be Markie. In fact, I wonder if anyone can use someone else’s sign in on this website. Curious
I do respect others right to disagree on matters of opinion, however I will never be a fan of anyone that attempts to obstruct another person’s rights or someone who feels that they are an absolute authority.
tiger123, anonymous4 made that comment. I have nothing against you at all.
Thanks for the clarification, I thought someone hijacked my screen name.
Best regards
@Marcos
Re: ‘I think this site might be losing credibility by finding too many faults with JW’s.’ — Is that even possible??????
Sorry, I was being sarcastic and facetious. ;)
I couldn’t help but take note of MeMe disposition , we tend to stereotype women as more compassionate than men , but I am really getting convinced such is not the case . My sister never visits her 87 y/o mother , neither my niece her Grandmother , neither any of my children both grown women now , I alone have been attending the last 14 years with the exception of about 2 weeks . My 2nd wife , the best person one could ask for ; and I say this in all honesty , just complained and complained about my heart and mind being torn to pieces over my children being lost by their mother ( another woman) , my girlfriend before that complained about the same thing , as she said ” can’t you just leave it be for a little while ” I was totally devastated and there was no understanding amongst hardly any , but a couple of elders , in the KH , I would just cry and would have to go outside for 10 – 15 minutes .
As MeMe clearly reveals , and this is very common , the church is more important than family , this though is not exactly according to scripture much of the time , just the easier way of looking for something one thinks may bring them more satisfaction .
In regards to the church one can not be certain that their religion is even that which is being spoken of in scripture , that is truly the true religion or a religion acceptable to Yahweh / Yahovah ; but one does know for a certainty who they are married to , and that that person you are to be as 1 (one) with .
In regards to my children , they have a good excuse , as they have severely brainwashed by United Church of Christ people , whom their mother lost them to .
How nice you left your heart and common sense act in the right way.
I lived almost your same experience: my husband opened his mind first, tried to open mine without success. I kept attending meetings, but strangely my ‘sisters’ ignored me, trying to dispense themselves to even welcome me in the kingdom hall, just when I supposedly would need some encouragement.
My husband had prevented me about their attitude: they will not care about you… you will see..
In fact I was afraid to become an ‘apostate’ if I would give attention to his investigations about the WT. He even put me in front of a ultimatum: You decide if you want to continue to be a JW and not hear what I have discovered, we are not anymore of the same thoughts, so we have to separate, otherwise at least give me a hear and read what I found….
I did not want to separate from him, the man of my life, married at 18, now that I was 59… so I started to engage in discoveries about the WT.
I left the WT a few months after him, and never have been more happy and closer together.
Our 3 children left at the same time, all so happy to live the real life, free… how beautiful this feeling.
This year we celebrated our 50th anniversary together, it took time to discover who really is the WT, a long slavery of 60 years, that’s why we are really happy now!
Love, Rosy
My husband and I went to the midweek meeting after the CO’s meeting when it was announced we had two new elders but that one was no longer in that position. On the way home, I suggested he was being given time to look after his wife, a kind girl who has serious doubts about some of the doctrines. My husband reacted by asking what it had to do with her and then said, “He doesn’t beat her, does he?” It struck me that what my husband said is the truth about how the cong views marriage. So long as he doesn’t commit adultery or beat her, goes out in field service regularly and attends all the meetings, then a brother can be considered as a MS or elder. That, unfortunately, does appear to be the standard when appointments are considered.
In the first place, JW’s NEVER tell marriage mates to separate. I have been in serious danger for a long time and I can ‘t get any help AT ALL. No elders come and talk or look up anything for me. The Watchtower even said that if a sister is in danger, she should be helped to a safe place. The single sisters who live alone in big houses refuse to let me stay with them to get out of danger. So no one ever told you to separate.
No ,
I’m sure in most cases, the ones who are baptised andtrue believers, do !! In my case, my wife, Janelle Campbell , of the Studio City congregation in CA, who was raised in the truth , Does Not !! I have presented evidence to the elders of the way she is treating her marriage and me and they don’t seem to care I am very confused about that are they not there to protect the flock ??