A former Jehovah’s Witness Elder and Headquarters member is scheduled to stand trial in July after his arrest on four counts of second-degree felony sexual assault. Roderick G. Watkins, 56, of Heber Springs Arkansas, was taken into custody following a November 21st 2018 arrest warrant issued by the Cleburne County Circuit Court.
The charges against Watkins stem from allegations of sexual assault of at least four minor victims, claims which were brought to the attention of Detective Jenifer Osborn of the Cleburne County Sheriff’s Department.
All of the victims interviewed appear to be connected to Watkins through the local Arkansas Jehovah’s Witness congregations where he was a known and respected elder. Reports indicate that the children assaulted ranged in age from 6 to 16 years at the time of the crimes.
Detective Osborn documented the timeline leading up to the arrest, which begins with a detailed conversation with a local resident and mother of the first victim named.
The following police report by Osborn has been redacted by JW Survey to protect the names of the victims and their immediate family members.
The Police Report, Victim #1
“On October 9th, 2018, [The mother of victim #1] contacted the Sheriff’s office regarding sexual abuse of her son. [She] sounded distraught as she explained that her 12-year-old son named [victim #1] had disclosed to her, one week ago, that a trusted family friend had touched him inappropriately on his inner thigh. [She] said that the family friend is Roderick Watkins [who] lives in Heber Springs.”
“[The Mother of victim #1] told me that she had reported her son’s disclosure to her pastor and her pastor had told her he was reporting the incident to the child abuse hotline. [She] said that today, her son told her that Watkins had touched his privates. [She] told how this shocked her because she had thought her son had only been touched on the leg. She said she asked her son to tell her exactly what happened and she said her son told her that he had been at “Rod’s house”, downstairs, which is located in, Cleburne County, at 1310 N Broadway, Apt 13. Her son reported they watched a movie and Rod came in and rubbed his feet. She said her son, [victim #1] , said Watkins stopped rubbing his feet and ran his hand up his shorts and into his underwear. He said Watkins then rubbed his private parts for a few seconds. [The mother] said [victim #1] told her he got up and walked away. She said her son told her this had happened only that one time and it had been about a year ago.”
“[The mother] said that she doesn’t know what to do and said that she just wanted to let someone know that he had disclosed additional information. I asked her if she has spoken to anyone from CACD or DCFS since the pastor made the call and she said she had not I advised her that I would call and report this information and that I will be opening a criminal investigation. Case # 18-01126.”
“On October 11th, 2018, a forensic interview was conducted and recorded with [victim #1] . [victim #1] gives a detailed discloser [sic] about being touched on his genitals by Roderick Watkins at Watkins’ home. He tells how Watkins is a trusted family friend, babysitter and is a member of his Kingdom Hall. Watkins is trusted by everyone because he is a church elder.”
The Second Victim
“On October 12th, 2018, I was contacted by CACD and advised that another report of sexual contact by Roderick Watkins was called into the hot line and a forensic Interview was being scheduled for this victim, 15-year-old [victim #2]. [victim #2] disclosed touching of his genitalia and other sexual contact by Roderick Watkins that continued for years on multiple occasions at Watkins’ home and at [victim #2] ‘s home. [victim #2] disclosed threats by Watkins to [victim #2] ‘s dog, electronic toys, and a young friend if he disclosed the sexual contact. The circumstances surrounding the incident were similar to those of [victim #1] in that his family was also in the same church and had a close relationship with Watkins and Watkin’s wife.”
“On October 19th, 2018,[The parents of victim #2] came to the Sheriffs Office to file an official report on the behalf of their 15-year-old son [victim #2]. Report# 18-01220. The [parents] advised that Roderick Watkins was an Elder of their congregation and a Pioneer. They said he was very involved in the congregation and helped everyone. They also advise that Watkins is [victim #2]’s uncle by marriage and he has been a strong influence to [victim #2] for most of his young life. The [parents] do not know the details of [victim #2] ‘s disclosure, which I had already reviewed. They tell me that [victim #2] ‘s behavior and demeanor changed drastically when he was about 7 years old. This matches [victim #2]’s account of the first incident [victim #2] had with Watkins in 2010.”
“On October 19th, 2018, Roderick Watkins and his wife agreed to come in to discuss the allegations. Later this same day, instead of the Watkins’ coming, an attorney called and advised he was representing Watkins who declined to make a statement. Also, on this day, a search warrant for the residence of Roderick Watkins was executed and items of evidence were collected.”
The Third Victim
“On October 21st, 2018, [mother of the second victim] came to the Sheriffs Office with her 18-year-old daughter, [victim #3]. CCSO report # 18-01225. [victim #3] told me how when she was approximately 9 years old, she was sitting on Roderick Watkins’ Lap under a blanket at Watkin’s home in Cleburne County, and he touched her genitalia under her clothes. She said Watkins was a trusted member of their church congregation. She said she told no one about that incident and a few months later, it happened again the same way in Independence County at her home on [redacted address], Arkansas.”
“[The mother of victim #3] tells how even though her daughter had not told her about this incident until about a year ago, she had noticed her 9-year-old daughter sitting on Watkins’ lap and he had his hands under her blanket. [victim #3] said she told another member of the congregation about it at that time and this member confronted Watkins about not letting the child sit on his lap anymore.[The mother] goes on to say that once her daughter told her what happened to her, they reported it to the Elders and an investigation began. She said they were told by church elders that Watkins had done this unintentionally. She said nothing was done at first other than some suspension of his duties, but then when another unknown child came forward later, Watkins was disfellowshipped from the congregation.”
“As the investigation progressed, several people called in and came by the office and gave statements about seeing Watkins touch the above-mentioned victims inappropriately. Many of them tell how Watkins is a very affectionate touchy person towards children. They all agree that Watkins had a large influence and authority over this congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
The Fourth Victim
“On November 1st, 2018, [victim #4] came to the Office and CCSO. Report #18-01246. [victim #4] give detailed disclosure of being touched on his private areas under his clothes on two occasions back in 2011 when he was 16 years old by Roderick Watkins at [address redacted] in the summer and on November 2011 at War Memorial Stadium in Pulaski County during an event. The circumstances and actions of the two incidents with Watkins that [victim #4] detailed was similar to those of [victim #1] , [victim#2], and [victim #3]. [victim #4] tells how he reported his incidents to the Elders of his congregation soon after the second incident occurred. [victim #4] tells how he was not believed by the Elders and how he was told that he had “perceived” the incidents inaccurately. He said he and his family were treated differently after this. He said Watkins was one of the main Elders and he provided significant resources for the congregation. [victim #4] said when he turned 18 he stopped going to the meetings at the Kingdom Hall because he could not stand to watch as others continued to trust Watkins unconditionally.”
“At this point in the above-mentioned investigations, I believe probable cause exists to arrest Roderick Watkins for four counts of Sexual Assault in the 2nd degree. It is therefore prayed that a warrant to arrest be issued. “
“I swear the allegations contained herein are the truth, to the best of my knowledge, information and belief.”
Detective Jenifer Osborne (Signed)
Additional Revelations
Following the news of Watkins’ arrest, JW Survey received additional details related to the investigation.
Shockingly, the mother of victim #1 told the police she had entrusted the care of her two young children to Rod and Becky Watkins while she underwent extensive hospital treatment for stage 4 breast cancer.
In her statement, the mother said: “They were very trusted friends and we spent a lot of time at their house cooking and hanging out. He had been a trusted pastor until the church removed him from that position last year when 3 kids said he had touched their upper leg, making them uncomfortable.”
“He fooled all of us, all of our friends into thinking that’s how he is with everyone. that he loves us and is very touchy-feely. My son [victim #1] said he rubbed his feet when my younger son [redacted] went to the bathroom, he put his hand up his leg and rubbed his penus.”
“He thought it was a mistake and pushed as hard as he could his hand away and moved to the end of the [couch].”
The distraught mother went on to tell police “He has always shown a sweet, concerned side of him. Two weeks ago when everything started coming out, he showed a very arrogant scary side of him. He has always driven by and walked around our house. [My son] is afraid he will do that again, and he’s afraid Rod will take him from his family.”
At the end of this police petition, the mother of victim #1 checked the box which says “There is an immediate and present danger of domestic abuse to [victim #1]”, adding “the investigation may take 45+ days and we don’t know where Rod is.”
The Proximity of Watkins to the Kingdom Hall
The investigation of Watkins has taken a few interesting turns. Court documents obtained by Survey reveal that the address provided by Roderick Watkins is directly linked with the Heber Springs Arkansas Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
The proximate location of Watkins to the local Kingdom Hall appears more than mere coincidence. Congregation Elders holding key positions sometimes use their own address as the Kingdom Hall address. This practice can lead to the mixing of Kingdom Hall locations with the home addresses of elders.
More importantly, if correspondence from other congregations or from Headquarters were sent to a home address, letters involving allegations of abuse from other locales could theoretically be intercepted before they ever reached the body of elders.
Whatever the case, it’s clear Watkins lived just a short distance from the church where his victims attended meetings.
Watkins, a Traveling Elder
Diverse sources report that Watkins was a career Jehovah’s Witness Elder who migrated from the Southern United States to multiple congregations around the country.
A North Carolina native, Rod “Roddy” Watkins arrived in Brooklyn New York in the mid-1980s where he served as a dining room waiter to the expanding Bethel family. In 1988, Watkins left Watchtower headquarters, married, and eventually settled in Sedalia Missouri where he and wife Becky began their newlywed life together. The Watkins shared a residence building with other Witnesses who relocated to help the local congregation.
Having left Missouri for unknown reasons, Watkins and his wife made their way to Indiana, where they attended the congregation in West Harrison, on the Ohio border. Roderick and Becky were considered by Indiana Witnesses as pillars of the organization.
A Reddit user who prefers to remain anonymous remembers Watkins’ going-away party in Indiana, where according to this former Witness, “[He] was considered the finest elder from the Indiana circuit.”
A second Indiana source said “We went to the same congregation near Lawrenceburg, Indiana during my teen years. I never would have imagined this about him. He and his wife Becky were the pillars of the congregation.”
After 2000, the couple decided to move to Arkansas, presumably to be near his wife Becky’s family in Mountain View. Rod and Becky eventually settled into the Heber Springs Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Watkins, a distinguished Elder, and Pioneer minister, served in the special capacity of Service Overseer, a position that placed him on the “Service Committee” along with the Presiding Overseer and Secretary.
The Service Committee of Jehovah’s Witness Congregations governs the activity of each congregation, and is responsible for making sure Watchtower policies are carried out, including the formation of judicial committees and the handling of child abuse allegations by congregants or appointed elders. Watkins’ position created a deeply disturbing conflict of interest within the elder body.
Several sources with knowledge of the case suggested that the number of victims may well exceed the four who gave statements to the police in Heber Springs. They said: “there was a previous [Kingdom] Hall in Arkansas where an accusation was made and the 2 witness rule kept it from going further.”
If the allegations are correct, Watkins could be implicated in the cover-up of his own crimes, since letters of introduction from other Congregations he attended would necessarily follow his transfer into Heber Springs Arkansas.
As a long-time Elder in the church, he would be well aware of the July 1, 1989, and March 14th, 1997 letters from Brooklyn Headquarters. The 1997 letter specifically required all congregations to submit any instances of known child abusers to the religions New York office, as reported in the Atlantic article from March 2019.
The organization continues to compile data related to child abuse cases using its secure internal computer network.
One Family’s Plea for Help
The wake of devastation left by Roderick Watkins is significant. One Arkansas family has placed their home up for sale after victim #2 attempted suicide. Just 15 years old at the time of Watkins’ arrest, victim #2 described sexual abuse spanning half his young life, and which included threats to his dog, his toys, and even his friends if he ever told anyone what happened.
A GoFundMe account has been set up to cover $100,000 in expenses for the therapy and treatment of this young victim. Both Witnesses and Ex-Witnesses have contributed.
The father of victim #2 posted: “Our son, [redacted], spent most of January in the hospital for suicidal thoughts/attempts. He could not see past the depression that he has been suffering from because of some horrible acts towards him. “
Who Reported the Abuse?
It is unclear at this stage whether any elders in any congregation ever reported the accusations of abuse to local or state law enforcement. All indications from the police report suggest that it was the families of the victims themselves who compared notes, then decided to speak to Arkansas police.
Details are still emerging in the case, but an analysis of the police report and other evidence indicates that Watkins was only disfellowshipped from the congregation following at least three reports of sexual assault by Watkins. The mother of victim #3 states that Watkins was disfellowshipped after another child reported abuse “later”- but victim #4 – the oldest victim – had already reported his abuse to the elders.
This provides substantial cause to conclude that congregation elders not only hampered this investigation, but their obstruction of their own internal policies led to the sexual abuse of a minimum of two additional children in Heber Springs.
Of course, it did not help that Watkins remained an appointed elder in the congregation until he was reportedly defrocked as elder in 2017, then disfellowshipped in 2018.
What’s the Reporting Law?
Arkansas law currently states that “Clergy must report suspected child maltreatment except to the extent the clergy member has acquired knowledge of suspected child maltreatment through communications required to be kept confidential pursuant to the religious discipline of the relevant denomination or faith ” – Ark. Code Ann. § 12-18-402
While Jehovah’s Witness elders are mandated reporters, in every case they seek out the loophole which permits them not to report pursuant to their own “religious discipline.” In other words, if their internal practices declare communications with any congregation member as “confidential,” they immediately take the position that they are under no obligation to report.
Elders are instructed not to report abuse whenever this loophole exists, rendering mandatory reporting laws useless and toothless. Any elder who defies Watchtower’s procedural edicts are subject to deletion as elders, or worse.
If ever there were a reason for the Jehovah’s Witness organization to maintain secrecy with regards to their growing database of child abusers, this case highlights their disturbing concern. Watkins was a trusted, appointed servant to Watchtower, having passed multiple layers of theocratic oversight in his rise to authority and prominence.
He was described as well-respected- a pillar in the congregation – so much so that families frequently left their children with this man, only to have their world shattered by these shocking discoveries.
The sect of Jehovah’s Witnesses is guided by the belief that these men are appointed by “God’s Holy Spirit”, and that congregation elders act upon this force, which weeds out that which is unholy or in opposition to God’s will. Yet the cold reality is that no artificial “spirit” has ever prevented a child from being molested.
In fact, the religion itself appears to harbor these individuals while twisting and obstructing the very civil laws designed to give clergy members the ability to report child abuse and protect their congregations and the community.
Pending a plea bargain, Watkins criminal trial is set for July 17th-19th, 2019 and will be closed off to the public and reporters.
Editor’s Note: In keeping with the policy of JW Survey, the names of minor victims have been redacted, even though court documents reveal such information. Adult survivors of abuse are welcome to share their stories if they wish, but we do not solicit survivors for information. Victims are encouraged to immediately contact law enforcement and qualified, professional therapists to protect the public and assist in recovery.
Anyone with information regarding allegations of sexual abuse by Roderick Watkins should contact the Cleburne County Sheriff’s Office in Arkansas, or the police jurisdiction where the crimes may have occurred. If in doubt, call 911 immediately to be transferred to the appropriate law enforcement office.
Additional Resources:
Children’s Advocacy Center of Arkansas: https://www.cacarkansas.org/
Child Welfare Information Gateway: https://www.childwelfare.gov/
Court Documents:
- Arrest Warrant for Roderick Watkins
- Felony Information, Arkansas v. Watkins
- Bail Bond Document for Roderick Watkins
- Motion for Continuance 5-20-2019
- Order of Continuance 5-20-2019
Please note that JW Survey will not publish the Affidavit for Arrest Warrant for Roderick Watkins as it contains the names of minor victims of Watkins as well as family members. While it is a publicly available document, it is our policy to protect the identities of these individuals.
Image Credit for Featured Image: Jason Wynne
Well he for sure Isn’t God fearing trouble is this Cult is a great place to do these terrible things to children As No One will tell “””” Its ok just say SORRY
Also, children are indoctrinated to strictly (unconditionally) obey authority figures–from school teachers to elders, with the loophole unless it violates “Jehovah’s Law” (ie: Organization policy). The structure having very little in checks-and-balances to local men with authority is tilted against someone who dares to think a sanctioned, hand-picked ‘servant’ is corrupt.
It breaks my heart to hear about these four children, plus unknown others. No matter what help they receive, they can never un-live what happened to them. They can recover and have a good life, and yet they will remember.
I truly believe that every one of these abusers of children will face our Lord Jesus Christ and have to answer for these gross sins. Those who have helped to cover up sexual abuse and physical abuse should tremble and fall on their knees and beg forgiveness while there is still time.
I am praying for the one who is suicidal, that he will realize that he is not to blame for this and to let go of guilt and shame; and that he will get all the professional help he so desperately needs.
This is a kids paradise for perverts. I believe it reaches all theway to Warwick. All thpse trusted men of God lol. They have the rank and file fooled. One can never say a thing about this perverted paradise. I suggest that if you are at the time going to meetings and you have young children- when the child has to go to the rest room or for a drink of water then go there with them and wait to walk them back. If you have to do this then I cant see why in hell do you stoop that low to go to a meeting.? Get the hell out while you are still sane.
Mister Carver teh carpentry teacher at high school since the 1970s has touched penis and JW Judy Samson whose son NEVER went to the Kingdom Hall because the father ruled the family and said no, she doesn’t even know her son committed suicide because of Carver. And it gave my JW non-DFd brother a guilt-complex over the past 50 years of living with sugar-daddy because Carver took Judy’s son up to Milwaukee to visit my brother and his Daddy. My brother told me this like 30 years later while drunk. He bumps into Judy up in Door County. So doesn’t seem like schools or atheists even have to fear two witnesses because their is no congregation circle to ever fnd out other than the gay scene itself who denies it. My roomate Denis told the gay bar that at 16 he coerced his church campsite buddy to swap oral; upon which the guy wanted to commit suicide the next day, eventually disclosing. The gays in the gay dance club replied by several people to my very ears OH HOW HORRID THAT HE OUTS YOU LIKE THAT.
Rick – Why are you accusing someone here in this Comments section? Why haven’t you taken your evidence to the police? Could it be because they might not be impressed with your hearsay, a re-telling of a drunken comment supposedly made 30 years after something that allegedly happened 50 years ago? You are way late with your evidence, way late, and what you are doing here is not helping anyone.
Also, why the gay bashing? Gays are very seldom child molesters; it’s usually straight relatives or friends of the family or church people – almost always someone who the parents think of as a great person, just like this guy being charged. I know that many religionists have a problem with gays for loving someone of the same sex, but that same-sex attraction does not translate into child molesting. This guy in this case is accused of molesting children both male and female. Child molesters seldom commit a same-sex crime exclusively. They victimize children of both sexes if they get the opportunity.
@Ammo Alamo I concur. gay men are often the victims of abusers–so-called “straight” men. It’s like a dominance thing where the molester derives power and pleasure from abusing the young gay or gay man.
Absolutely awful how these pedophiles are protected in this filthy CULT!
I pray for these innocent children’s lives! People in this cult need to WAKE UP!!!!!!
So heartbroken for the victims and their families:(
Just reading the accounts of the mothers brought tears to my eyes. I was in their shoes not too long ago and I completely understand the stress they are going through right now. Hopefully they put their children in therapy as soon as possiable even if its art therapy or equine therapy all kids are different and need different things.
Our fight is ongoing with my daughter but she is doing really well and attending a UC right now. Please know your kids can still live a happy productive life, it may take some time but it will get better. My thoughts are with you.
MAMMABEAR- YOUR DAUGHTER WAS MOLESTED??? OH NO. I AM SO SO SORRY. HOLY CRAP. I AM 56 AND HAD THIS HAPPEN TO ME DURING 1960’S. THE PERSON WHO WAS ABUSIVE SHOT HIMSELF IN THE HEAD YEARS LATER. IT WAS HORRID. HOPE YOU DAUGHTER GETS HELP TO HEAL. HANG IN THERE.
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I left after 40 years , after watching Royal Commission.
My first husband ( now an elder in Leeds UK ) left me for 13 year old girl , an elders daughter . It was covered up and they married in a Kingdom Hall later .
My second husband ( a ministerial servant and pioneer )was a violent abuser and threw me out on street , still serving as far as I know .
I know of an abuser in the West Yorkshire area who has abused numerous children ( now adults )
All parents were hushed up . Last I heard he was working with Special Needs people in Social Services
Yet another CAREER PEADOFILE outed in this shameful CULT. Covered up by other men apparently directed by holy spirit. What B\S. Or as my mother tells me – the odd bad apple sneaks into jehovah’s organisation.
Much love to the abuse survivors & their families.
Only a few comments in and these sad personal stories come out. It makes me so angry to have family as patsy’s for this dumb cult and have them thinking it’s me who needs saving.
Did I read somewhere among the comments on this site that the GB no longer say they’e inspired or spirit directed and that they’re fallible? Can anybody tell me please.
Outandabout,
Firstly, great summation Mark.
I believe the expression used is “spirit directed” to describe the organization now. This is a new development within the last decade or so. Just more stupid semantics as far as I’m concerned. This way the Holy Spirit, which imitates from God and is perfect, cannot be blamed because imperfect men apply its perfect directions imperfectly. Yeah, I know that this is stupid and illogical but to say they have it would mean that the Holy Spirit has been passed down to someone after the death of the last apostles which flies in the face of current understanding. Or maybe another Pentecost has occurred (can you say ‘New Light’)?
Thus the elders, Circuit Overseers and the eight mental midgets of Wallkill, calling themselves the Governing Body, avoid the fact that they don’t have, never had and never will have God’s blessings or direction, ever. If Jehovah’s Witnesses had anything resembling the Holy Spirit they wouldn’t be in constant trouble refining their doctrines or trying to run a ‘Christian organization’ by the Mosiac Law, which was done away with at Calvary, like the 7 day Adventist’s.
Jehovah’s Witnesses are industrial strength stupid to the extreme. Caesar’s Laws should be followed and let the enforcement agencies do their investigation. If the accused molester is found guilty the congregation can then disfellowship the perpetrator. That would be a win-win-win for the congregation and the community as well as justice for the victims involved. But does the Watchtower do that? Hell no! Let’s not get the authorities involved rather let’s apply the two witness Mosiac Law rule, yeah that’s the ticket! That will serve to protect who, other than the offending predators?
A pathetically sorry attempt at hiding their skeletons away from public view. How’s that working out for all of you Jehovah’s Witness apologists?
Ok, thanks, Big B. So where the hell did I see that. Must have been dreaming. I see your fury hasn’t abated any.
The more I look the more I see how easily us humans get sucked into nonsense. Just look at the rise of these Flat Earthers. They all seem like normal reasonable people and some even admit, or so they say, to looking into ‘facts’ with an open mind and becoming convinced the Earth is flat and their numbers appear to be growing. I wonder how many airline pilots are among them.
Take the tens of millions of Germans who fell for Nazi propaganda more or less overnight. Could 70 million people possibly be wrong? Absolutely.
What about the population of Greece being forced to believe in Gods and if they didn’t and failed to keep quiet, the same fate as Socrates awaited who was forced to eat hemlock for ‘not believing in the gods of the state’ and ‘corrupting the youth of Athens’.
We’re just as stupid as ever because now we believe there’s a magic man in the sky who made everything and he loves us but if we don’t love him back, he kills us. Anybody believing that on their own today would be deemed a lunatic but apparently, because millions of people believe it, it must be correct. That sort of belief belongs in the bawling infancy of our species but if one only believes it loosely and they gain some sort of comfort from it, no harm done but if the belief becomes compulsory, it then needs it’s neck stood on.
Hi Outandabout,. You can find this in the February 2017 study magazine. The article entitled “Who is Leading God’s People Today” paragraph 12. Hope this helps.
Regards
thank you for taking the time to tell me, eyesopened.
Sorry that I wasn’t much help in answering your question outandabout.
My last meeting as a Jehovah’s Witnesses was back at the Friday afternoon convention back in 2013 and haven’t kept up with JW.org since. All of my past literature, bound volumes, study books, etc. were placed in the recycling bin for disposal. I have no need for junk, mythology or New Light lies cluttering up my bookcases when there is so much real historical truth out there.
Good job researching eyesopened.
In material printed since as long I have been associated with WT, and from all the historical information I have read about WT, I have only seen one position WT has taken with regard to the question you asked Outandabout. WT and the GB have NEVER claimed their writing is inspired by God or Holy Spirit. WT’s claim to authority over all true Christians doesn’t arise because of that false belief you held. WT’s interpretation of Matthew 24:45 is why it claims authority over all Christians recognized as such by Christ. WT’s teaching is that Christ place it in a position of oversight over Christians.
As for spiritually directed, all true Christians are spirit directed. That doesn’t mean they don’t make mistakes or sin. Thus that doesn’t mean WT cannot make mistakes or sin. It’s not an untruth or copy out . It’s a Bible teaching and truth.
Again, the interpretation of Matthew 24:45. is why WT claims it has authority over others, given that authority by Christ.
Forget those ideas you are trying to connect to WT’S authority, because WT doesn’t use those as the REASON it has authority. And WT never claimed its writing is infallible.
Spreading fake news about WT might cause some who are looking because they are skeptical to stop looking, because of believing the sources they investigate are not credible.
The Watchtower specifically states that holy spirit directs it to interpret teachings and make decisions.
“Third, holy spirit is at work in bringing Bible truths to light.” Watchtower 2010 Apr 15 p.10 Holy Spirits Role in the Outworking of Jehovahs Purpose
“Consider, too, the fact that Jehovah’s organization alone, in all the earth, is directed by God’s holy spirit or active force. (Zech. 4:6) Only this organization functions for Jehovah’s purpose and to his praise. To it alone God’s Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book. Many persons of the world are very intelligent, capable of understanding complex matters. They can read the Holy Scriptures, but they cannot understand their deep meaning. Yet God’s people can comprehend such spiritual things. Why? Not because of special intelligence on their part, but as the apostle Paul declared: “For it is to us God has revealed them through his spirit, for the spirit searches into all things, even the deep things of God.”” Watchtower 1973 Jul 1 p.402
“In 1942 the “faithful and discreet slave” guided by Jehovah’s unerring spirit made known that the democracies would win World War II and that there would be a United Nations organization set up.” Watchtower 1960 Jul 15 p.444
I FOUND THE ABOVE STATEMENT ON JW FACTS.COM
Yes Robin the WT claims Holy Spirit directs it, but it doesn’t say it’s writings are inspired of God. Look it up. What I just said is in WT writings.
Those are some of the same things I claim about myself, that Holy Spirit directs me, that it uses me to bring out truths in the Bible, but I, like WT, don’t tell people my writings are inspired by God. If they are that is to be proven later, not at this time. WT on the other hand categorically admits NONE of its writings are inspired by God.
WT’s prediction in 1942 means nothing. Flip a coin and take your choice. Even without the Bible, even without looking at the events that were taking place at that time (and you don’t know what those were exactly, and you cannot know what WT knew about those events then either) a flip of the coin would produce a 50/50 chance WT would be correct.
As for what you say about who Christ labeled “the faithful discreet slave” and what that phrase even means, I will tell you if you want to know. (But I don’t want to intrude so you have to ask me if you want the Bible’s meaning of that phrase.) I’ll tell you this much about it now, the phrase does not apply in the way WT claims it does. How do I know? Because Holy Spirit taught that to me.
Don’t you find it strange that WT claims some of its members have a special relationship with God, an anointing? And WT teaches those members know that for sure, that they definitely know they are different. And yet WT teaches God does not contact people in our day. They claim God bears witness with them without contacting them. How would they know that if God did not contact them? If it wasn’t God who gave them that information how would they know that? And what makes them any different than you if God did not specifically reveal that to them? But if he did, it would have been a supernatural contact, something WT denies happening.
I truly don’t mean this as a put down of you. I believed most of what you wrote above at one time. Then I was born of Holy Spirit and contacted by God. That’s how I learned the Truth about WT’s mistaken biblical interpretations. I learned something about WT’s historical hypocritical acts from this site and other sources. But I learned the Truth about the Bible from Holy Spirit, not human teachers. And the truths I share don’t change like WT teachings do, because I only teach what I know. I don’t speculate like WT has always done and continues to do. If I don’t know a Bible interpretation to be factual, yet it is believed by some I don’t say it is factual. Instead I say this is what some believe, or a possibility.
If I speak the truth does it make more sense to listen to me, or more sense to listen to WT, just because WT claims to be the only dispenser of Bible truth? Remember the response of people to Christ right before he was killed. He was one person, so most everybody at the time of his death sided with the established group, that group who claimed to be God’s spokesman then, like WT does now. And in the same way the group in WT would love to kill me. And for the same reason, because I speak truth that exposes its sin. There are others like me. Through us the Bible message is being spread not through WT.
Take care Robin. I mean you no ill will. And I mean you no deception.
I am a witteness to such behavior , when I reported it I was threatened with disfellowshipment should I take it further. Also on another occasion I recieved news of a elder who was molesting children, i reported it , eventhough I didn’t believe it , later I discovered my own son was involved! Still the consequences were awful. My own position became unstable .my husband was a servant at the time , and he did not back me up . This involved several kids ,although it was back in the early eighties ,it was like yesterday i will never recover completely from the devastation ,or everlasting pain of what happened to my children and other children.it is my undying wish to have that evil organization exposed. So much more to ssy.
Same here. The elder let me know that if I brought charges against the brother/perpetrator that pioneering, etc. or my husband’s upward trajectory in the KH hierarchy would be seriously compromised. The elder was very kind when he told me this; just another company man who believed he was doing the right thing. Also, very sorry to hear you went through such a terrible time.
Our Creators didn’t give us Religion , They Gave us ” FREE WILL”” , All Religions and there are over 400 of them ” put together by Man by stories that were told and made up To have control over us for greed and Abuse , “”” Our creators See’s Your Heart Not Your chosen religion , “But we were given a warning “”” STAY AWAY FROM THESE THING , “”DO AS YOU WILL BE DONE BY”” . that is the only Religion you need ..LOVE ONE ANOTHER .. and How do I know there are more than one Creator Because it says LET “”US””” make man in OUR image .. RELIGIONS ARE DANGEROUS “CONTROLLING ORGANIZATIONS They have to be STOPPED , if there Not They will Ruin so many lives as they already have “and they do it because they know they can .
To quote: “a trusted family friend had touched him inappropriately on his inner thigh. [She] said that the family friend is Roderick Watkins [who] lives in Heber Springs.
[The Mother of victim #1] told me that she had reported her son’s disclosure to her pastor and her pastor had told her he was reporting the incident to the child abuse hotline.” unquote.
So Roderick Watkins was a trusted family friend, meaning she was in the same “church” as him. Therefore the “pastor” who reported was also of the same “church” as him. It turns out that the said “church” was Jehovah’s Witness church of Heber Springs.
So the elder of the Jehovah’s Witness church of Heber Springs she confided in went straight to the authorities. Interesting.
Well done Mark, sadly it will treated as a slander by the media & court system, so sorry for the victims & families who have to live with this, but it also oozes Liable, the Elders knew about him & did nothing, bring on another major lawsuite.
What gets me thinking about the comment on hiding stuff is my own experience when i was an Elder, The police executed a search warrant at the Presiding Overseers home & then the KH, the letter was missing, he later told me they would never find it as it was hidden at another Elders home, i conclude the letter was probably never at the KH, the society must have instructed them to hide it of site, they are truly Evil.
When any of the elders are involved in hiding anything the police are looking for it reveals the motive of those folks in COVER UP is not because of the 2 witness rule, or any biblical scriptures . The 2 witness scriptures in the Bible say nothing about hiding information from authorities. Furthermore, because in doing so they are disobeying government authority, thus sinning against God as expressed in Romans, that action is proof their cover up is for self serving reasons or only to protect WT. The same will apply to any person or group instructing them to hide their documents from police.
IF THOSE DIRECTIONS COME FROM BETHELS IT PROVES WT’S ONLY MOTIVATIONS FOR NOT REPORTING ARE SELF SERVING. IN THAT CASE THEIR USE OF SCRIPTURES FOR ITS COVER UP IS A SHAM. But do we really know the order to hide documents came from WT?
For someone suing WT for sexual child abuse that would be important to find out. If it can be proven WT instructs its elders to hide documents from the police it can be argued that that WT violates Romans, and that their cover up is self serving, and is not because of scriptural beliefs.
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So the Jury Trial is set for July 17-19, 2019. The motion for continuance indicated that Def. Atty. needed additional time to discuss a plea deal with the prosecution. Looks like a deal wasn’t made during this time frame. Interesting. I don’t know really anything about criminal law, but if it’s a jury trial rather than a bench trial, the defendant could get the book thrown at him. Anyone (or attys out there) knowledgeable about criminal law, please pipe in. At any rate, I’m thinking a plea with jail time will be the result. Additionally, the attorney’s hourly fees and costs (plus additional staff) will be exorbitant, especially preparing for a trial.
Since it’s a criminal case the DA will need ALL jurors (in a jury trial) to say guilty to get a conviction. Even if one juror is not willing to say that it will be a hung jury when others say guilty. But that allows the defendant to be tried again, and again, and again until all jury members agree. If a DA wants to go through those other trials that could happen, but it doesn’t have to. The DA decides. It’s not double jeopardy if he wasn’t convicted first. Similarly to get acquitted all jurors have to agree.
Civil trials are easier to win because all jurors don’t have to agree to get a verdict handed down. In California 9 out of 12 of them define the verdict in a civil trial. In other states the mix might be different. And I think it is.
Sooner or later WT is going to have to start reporting most of their pedophile suspicions to child protection agencies or police because governments are starting to put pressure on WT. it’s handling of this is getting too much attention.The pressure will probably get worse in the future. Nobody likes a pedophile.
Hey active JWs, if it was up to you, if God gave you the absolute authority to decide the fate of people, would you kill someone because they tried their best to know the Bible while interpreting the rich man and Lazarus story literally? Please answer as I would like to know who you are.
See Anthony Morris III and the other GB members claim God will kill people who interpret that story (rich man and Lazarus) literally. Would you kill people for that reason?
Now, the Bible teaches us we should be like God? Christ said, my Father is perfect, so you should be perfect, or something to that effect.
So, would you kill people for that reason, if the decision was left entirely up to you? Please give God your answer Jehovah’s Witnesses. He wants to know.
Most people who have been caught….. This typically isn’t the first, second or even third time. The article says that people couldn’t believe the things said about him. They said he was one of the best elders in all of Indiana. Molesters work extremely hard at looking great in front of other adults. The fact that he was a travelling elder and left for no apparent reason is what causes concern. If he is guilty then he’s probably been doing this for a long time and probably only left when questions were asked. I would bet there are going to be more victims. People like this almost never stop unless they are arrested. Even then it only stops because they are no longer around children. That’s something the witnesses never realize. Oh. He said sorry. He must really mean it. He won’t do it again. Bull. It almost always continues. Usually with another child. How can a decent person know of a person like this and yet they do almost nothing. Yeah they MIGHT get disfellowshipped if there is enough proof. But nothing else happens. The parents are not even warned about a molester in their own hall. There are 1000’s of these perverts being protected by the JW’s. What kind of people let this go on? They really are a messed up cult that obviously worries more about the jw name then actually protecting thier members. One of my greatest joys in life was that I left the witnesses when my wife was pregnant with our first kid. My 3 kids are now between 24 and 30 years old. Thank God I didn’t raise them witnesses.
Yes, you said it. What kind of people would let this go on???? The majority of the members are part of the problem- not part of the solution. Glad you raised your kids outside of the Truth. They didnt have to cope with any of this crap.
Once the statues of limitations are lifted (New York State in August; New Jersey in December) there is going to be a tidal wave of litigation coming down the pike.
Wow. Holy Shit on a Shingle. NO KIDDING
Until we die, and the younger generation takes our place, the word COLLUSION will be associated with FAKE NEWS.
I don’t think the Zalkin Law Firm in San Diego, CA will mind me posting this article that I got off the blog page on their website. Make sure to google their San Diego office to read that blog page.
IF YOU PLAN ON SUING BETHEL NEW YORK FOR THIS YOU’D BETTER CONSULT A LAWYER RIGHT AWAY AND GET AN EXPLANATION OF THAT “ONE YEAR LOOK BACK” THAT IS REFERRED TO IN THIS ARTICLE. IF YOU WAIT TOO LONG YOU MIGHT BE OUT OF LUCK DUE TO A STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS RUNNING OUT.
ZALKIN LAW IN SAN DIEGO HANDLES A LOT OF THESE CASES.
The New York Child Victim’s Act: It’s About Time
Wednesday, 30 January 2019
Blog
By Irwin M. Zalkin, Esq.
For over a decade, child sexual abuse survivors, survivor advocates and supporters like our law firm, have been battling against powerful institutions like the Catholic Church and elements within the Hassidic Jewish Community and others to amend New York’s archaic child abuse statute of limitations. That persistence of survivors and their advocates has finally defeated the Goliath detractors who have helped to block state legislation year after year that would allow older victims of child sexual abuse access to civil justice. On January 28th, 2019, the New York State legislature almost unanimously approved A 2683, The Child Victims Act, and sent it on to Governor Cuomo for signature.
Under the new law, victims of childhood sexual abuse can now file civil lawsuits until the age 55. There is also a one-year “look-back window” in the new law that gives victims with old claims that had already passed the statute of limitations, the right to sue during that one year period. In addition, the new law now allows prosecutors to bring criminal charges until a victim turns 28.
This access to civil justice is long overdue in New York. As early as May 2009, I wrote an article for Huffington Post titled “States Need to Stop Telling Child Victims They’re SOL”about the brave efforts of New York Assemblywoman Margaret Markey’s efforts to pass the “Child Victims Act” at that time. This was at a time when our law firm was one of the lead firms involved in resolving nearly 1,000 cases against the California Catholic Dioceses for over one billion dollars, as the result of legislation that was passed in California in 2003, a law similar to this new, New York law, that allowed for a one-year window for older victims to be able to file civil lawsuits for monetary damages as a result of the abuse they suffered as children.
The Zalkin Law Firm has been representing child sexual abuse victims in New York for almost a decade, despite the obstacles to civil justice presented by the just changed New York statute of limitations. Finally, ten years after we began representing victims in the state, there is now a pathway to justice for our clients who were victims of childhood sexual abuse in New York, a pathway that has long been open to our clients in California and other states.
The one year “look back window” in the new Child Victims Act means that victims who seek justice and compensation through the courts need to act quickly to secure experienced legal representation. Our firm has been contacted by many victims and we are already moving ahead with their cases. We encourage anyone who was a victim of abuse to contact us as soon as possible so that we can evaluate your case and get started on this pathway to justice
The scourge of child sexual abuse is not limited to the Catholic Church. Unfortunately, we have been called upon to help victims within the Jewish, Jehovah’s Witnesses and Orthodox Greek Church communities. The sexual abuse of children knows few boundaries and is a national problem within our schools, youth sports organizations, Boy Scouts, Big Brothers and Sisters and other youth serving organizations.
As we have learned from our past experiences in California and other states, when restrictive statutes of limitations are removed or amended, and the financial burden shifts to where it belongs, on the backs of the institutions responsible for harboring and protecting pedophiles, change happens. The New York Child Victim’s Act will undoubtedly help protect today’s children from institutional predators, and offer justice and hope to those who have been denied for so long.
ALL Religions are a BLANKET for all Pedophiles . Become Catholic Priest if you’re Homasexual “you can get away with it .No one will believe the young Boys their abusing. . Or if you like Both girls and Boys you have several choices. No one will Tell. Best one though is the Jehovah witness . If you get found out . They don’t report you. Just say sorry and Start again “”In Our Creators Name “you are Discusting Vile People including those that cover up what they Know of them If you do report what they’ve done They have to SHUN you and thy tell their congregation that the child is very unwell with a vivid imagination so have nothing to do with this family .How many More Children and their families have to suffer because of this . You don’t need a building to Pray , our Creators didn’t give us Religions They gave us FREE WILL. Help the poor .Don’t give it to these RELIGIONS who are very rich with your money. They sure are Not God fearing ALL RELIGIONS HAS TO STOP. .use the building to house the homeless. Enough is Enough. Don’t give them Free Will to ABUSE
As tragic as the whole situation is, and as genuinely sorry as I feel for the victims, I still must say,
I love this news
I love this news
I LOVE THIS NEWS.
Hi Mark, my name is Abel. I’m working on a lawsuit. You can help me. Can you contact me please?
No worries, Big B, I didn’t have anything riding on the question.
Hi messenger, a glance at JWfacts suggests WT indeed claim to be inspired but also not infallible. Perhaps you have a different take on it.
Cheers.
Outandabout,
JW Facts is a good website. I’ll give you that. Though I haven’t read from it in about 2 years and never gave it near the attention I’ve given Survey.
However, I need to see the actual quote from WT to accept that it ever claimed to be inspired. It goes against everything I have ever learned about WT. Since 75′ they certainly didn’t claim that. And although I didn’t read a whole lot about WT beliefs before that time I did read my share of older WT articles and comments about those earlier times, including both Ray Franz’s books, which I own. In R. Franz’s books from what I remember Rutherford claimed to received communication from God. But that doesn’t mean his writings were inspired. I claim the same, but I don’t claim what I write is inspired. There was one other that claimed the same. It wasn’t Russel. It might have been Fred Franz.
WT, the organization, has always claimed their writings are NOT INSPIRED as far as I know. As I said above Rutherford didn’t claim inspired writings, though some type of contact with God. True, the little Freddie Franz claimed to be one of the few people in the whole world who could interpret the Bible accurately, and one of its only teachers, an ability he claimed to have received from God. That’s close to what you said. But through all those claims WT still claimed it was not inspired. I was baptized when Knorr was president, and Freddie Franz was WT’s oracle. A trick WT uses, and especially used back when Freddie Franz was its prophet is that it talked a lot of crap that sounded like it was claiming to be inspired, while all the time their organization was publishing articles claiming it was not inspired. That’s why unless you were in it’s difficult to know what they were teaching about their ability.
Most Christians only claim the Bible is inspired out of everything that was ever written. But most Christians put God in a box. They teach God only relates to men in ways they know about. (For most of them it’s only what they read in the Bible). The reality is God does whatever he wants, and most of what he does is not written down in the Bible or anywhere on Earth. There could be some other writings out there that are inspired by God that the world doesn’t yet know are inspired writings. But there is a slim chance any of WT’s writings would be among those ,because of the nature of WT, what WT is and does.
How are you getting along? I know I am hard on you at times. It’s only for the sake of revealing truths to readers. I still love you brother. And I truly hope you’ll make the cut when Christ judges. I have thought at times (when I’ve been alone) that when I end up on my death bed you are one of the few people I wish to say goodbye to before I go. I know spiritual stuff is hard to believe when you have not seen proof. But it’s real. I wasn’t tricking you about what I’ve seen, or that logically that part of it that already came true defies the possibility of being coincidental.
Take care buddy.
I never feel you’re hard on me and I’ve always understood the reason for your tone at times, messenger, and I will say that in my youth I would have followed any girl I was keen on into the WT no sweat. I would have floated in on her pheromones with a face like a dopey cartoon fool and worried about the details later. I reckon I would be PIMO though.
Yes, I know you’re not tying to trick anybody and that you being honest about what you believe. One thing I’ve noticed about Witnesses is that they’re for the most part honest people.
Don’t be concerned with my spiritual well-being. All sorted.
yes, that is my name.
In reply to an earlier comment by you about collusion, messenger…….the words ‘multiple and provable accounts of obstruction of justice’ will forever be associated with Trump. Nixon got removed for less.
You may recall……as early as 1933 the Munich Times was reporting on the dangers of Hitler. As soon as Hitler gained enough power he had the offices firebombed and the staff thrown into concentration camps as ‘enemies of the people’. Are you aware of any dictators using that term today?
History will repeat itself if we let our guard down.
June 7, 2019, the 75th anniversary of D-Day, +1 day.
To all the hard-working folks at Watchtower HQ, let me say this: Don’t think that all your Fire & Fury “Armageddon” talk is to no avail. I myself walk about all day in stark terror, have nightmares, and often wake up in a cold sweat.
N O T
AAA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Your pathetic pissant WORDS do not phase me in the LEAST. And by the way, when, not IF, but WHEN, your “watchtower” finally crumbles, you will have wished you stuck with what you know, like washing windows, as I’m sure Mr. Watkins now wishes. LOL
As for the rest of us, we all say we appreciate the sacrifices of our veterans. But what is the best way to honor them? Simple. By living FEARLESS lives. We all face death. It’s scary, yes. But not THAT scary.
And just in case anyone jumps on me for talking about being fearless, yet using a pseudonym, remember, I said “fearless”, not “stupid”. I’m not accusing anyone who uses their real name, of being stupid. But of course, it depends on circumstances. In my case, I would be opening myself up to a world of hurt. And that is not going to happen on my watch. My crazy JDubya family actually called the cops on me once, with the cooperation of elders and other lowlifes. By even mentioning that, I know I’m pushing the envelope. But hey, I never said I wasn’t a LITTLE bit stupid (and bored). lol Anyway, that’s my story and I’m sticking to it. Cheers. ;)
Yeah, just looked at Watkins’ picture again. He doesn’t look particularly thrilled about the turn his life has taken.
:D :D :D
Karma’s a BITCH.
Holy crap! I’ve accidentally stumbled upon this page, though I ain’t associated with this religion (I guess I once was when I was a teenager, but I never took it seriously). My life took all kinds of different turns and tribulations, and some of them led me to doing some serious time in California prisons. The reason I mention that to folks out there is because most people don’t know what happens to pieces of shit like the one mentioned in the article. When they hit the prison yard (in any US state) after they’re sentenced… Justice is handed down by the prisoners. The weirdos get either stabbed or slashed across their face with a razor, as it’s called a ‘trademark’ of a child molester/sexual predator. Unless they immediately ask to be put in the protective custody, they will NOT be tolerated in the general population. Prisons are full of extremely violent people, and pieces of shit who hurt children or women are generally looked down upon and ‘handled on sight’, meaning stabbed or beaten so badly they are left with an injury for the rest of their lives, if they manage to live of course. I hope that this disgusting child molester is sentenced & sent to prison as soon as possible, where he’ll be punished accordingly by other convicts.
Amber I just watched your video interview with Lloyd Evans. In it you came across as a very beautiful woman inside and out. It’s my favorite video so far. Good luck with everything.
I watched Lloyd’s video interview with Amber today. In it she came across as a very beautiful woman, both inside and out. From her insights of the Witness preaching in China and her comments about the degree of success that she saw it doesn’t seem like WT is having the tons of success I would have expected. Web sources claim China’s Christians already outnumber American Christians.
I have a friend who was an elder who just returned from China after 3 years. His story is similar. Most witnesses are making a fortune teaching English and getting paid for it and reporting it as a study. They teach them English using WT publications. He said it was wrong how figures are used and how witnesses are making money and professing to be pioneering. Not many people interested in JW but they are happy to learn English in small towns and villages. That is why so many witnesses go to these areas. He was reprimanded for voicing the truth and when he moved they refused to allow him to serve as an elder in his next congregation.
All about control and manipulation of figures.
I’ve known of Witnesses who get missionary gigs in exotic locales like Costa Rica because the country is beautiful, the weather is pleasant, and the living is cheap.
@Messenger, it’s not often I disagree with you, but on the subject of Amber being beautiful on the inside and out I must question your judgement. She certainly appears well. However, her beauty inside must be seen by her actions. Remember that she went to China as a married woman. Her husband no doubt loved her dearly, but Amber fell out of love, and wondering how she could get out of this relationship thought it best to jump into bed with some guy, no doubt breaking her husband’s heart. But it got her what she wanted: freedom. But in getting that freedom she showed great disrespect for her marriage vows and her dedication to Jehovah.
For all we know she may be a covert narcissist (like my ex) destroying the plans of those who get close to her while lapping up the attention she is getting. I haven’t read her book, so my understanding of her marital relationship may be wrong. But in her interview she only stated that she had gotten married too young, she wasn’t a good match with her husband and she wanted out of the relationship. Which she could have gotten through a divorce, without the need to wreck the marriage with immortality.
Ricardo, I think you meant “immorality”.
Now, immortality would REALLY wreck the marriage!
BAZINGA
:D :D :D
Yeah, I said it! Can’t take it back now. LOL
@gruntled, yes, I chose the wrong word of the suggested words on my phone’s predictive software. Immortality has been known to ruin some marriages. Even to prevent a marriage. I remember a young British anointed sister who came to the Asian country where I was. She was keen on getting married but the local brothers weren’t interested because she was going to heaven. Her potential immortality ruined her chances of marriage.
That’s interesting. From my point of view, it would be like having a Get-Out-of-Jail-Free card. :D Seriously though, the idea that marriage is supposed to be “forever”, or at least until death, may be another religious oddity. I think a marriage contract should be like any other contract – with a fixed expiry date agreed upon by both parties, after which they each have the option of renewal.
Another chink in watchtower’s doctrinal armor. If that lady was “anointed”, why would she even possess the desire to be married? The watchtower cronies may say, “Well, as a human, she would have human desires, but once she becomes a spirit, those desires will be gone.” Really? Just like that? POOF! Like magic.
Unbelievable.
I didn’t see that bit about how she broke up with her husband, which you bring up, in that video Ricardo. If it’s there I missed it. Also, king David and all those patriarchs did the same thing as Amber. If that’s what she did. Not that I’m condoning that.
It’s just that is not what defines who a person is to me our God. If it was God would view all those patriarchs including Abraham, in the same way you view Amber. I don’t, and I don’t see that Christ or his Father does from scripture. In that video she came across as a beautiful person to me. But everyone makes their own judgments, don’t we?
I remember she said she had never been d’fed, which is curious. I wonder what happened with her husband? I think I am going to order her book to find out more of what happened.
Did (does) your congregation also have The Joker? That is, an individual, usually an elder, who goes around telling dumb jokes, to sort of subliminally “affirm” what a “fun” place jehovah’s organization is? Just wondering if anyone else experienced that. I’m not saying that it was necessarily intentional. It’s just an interesting dynamic that probably exists in most social constructs. I sometimes find myself filling that role. Hey, what can I say? Some men are born funny, others have Funny thrust upon them. :D Though I gotta say, my jokes are consistently superior to anything I’ve heard from any schmelder.
Anyone else remember having an elder in their cong who was known as “the joker”? This guy goes around telling dumb jokes to boost morale and make it seem like “jehovah’s organization” is such a fun place to be.
Sadly there may be some truth within most comments, but there are also half- truths and distortion of facts, regarding the Christian Congregation of Jehova’s Witnesses organizational guidelines and how those guidelines are derived and perceived. Understandably when one has a bad experience within any organization, their personal view of that organization will be negative. The opposite can also be said of a person who has good experiences, their personal view will be positive. Then there are those who have both negative and positive experiences with any organization. Regardless of the organization or business, positive and negative reviews on both sides can be found, depending on what you desire to find. The subject of this particular report is devastating and will have consequences for a lifetime for all involved. As a 50 year successful overcomer of child molestation myself, at the hands of my step-father, who was highly respected in the community as a captain in our local (different state) fire department, I can stand firmly in saying that everyone has the right to deal with such abuse in whatever way they choose. BUT, to blame or be hateful to any organization as a whole, for the gross sin of an individual, or individuals is tantamount to the horrendous witch hunts of Salem, various genocides, racial discrimination and other generalizations. Mudslinging, name calling and intentional efforts to defame an entire group of over 8 million, for the failings, in this case gross criminal atrocities of the relative few is just plain wrong. I feel intense pain of my heart for any who have had to go through these traumatic life-altering abuses. I can say though, that it doesn’t have to define you. You can choose to be a positive person, you can choose to be kind, you can choose to be a source of positive encouragement. I personally know the families affected by this tragedy. They are valiantly working hard to fight for recovery in a very positive way. Such negative articles and negative, inflammatory comments as some of these are, do nothing to assist them in their efforts. Please, for the sake of these families and their very real struggles, please, please take them into account before you go on a rampage. They need as much love and positivity as possible. Just because there are some who have done something very bad, doesn’t give anyone the right to impute badness to an entire group, be they Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Italian, Catholic, Adventist, Baptist, Methodist, Jehovah’s Witness or any other group. No one has ever gone a rampage against the world wide fire department community because of the abusers within their local ranks. Neither should this be done for any religious or other organization, period. No, it’s not ok to just say sorry, No Jehovah’s Witnesses are not a cult (look up the definition), No these abuses are not swept under the rug. Yes, there needs to be strict consequences for every abuse and/or criminal act. Yes, love also needs to be abound for the sake of all affected. Hate accomplishes nothing but to breed more hate, often unwarranted. Please be more thoughtful in your comments. I will not engage further, regardless of any replies this may receive. I just couldn’t sit by and watch so much hate. It’s not what these families need.
Your comment was beautifully crafted, especially your laughable use of hyperbole (racism, Salem witch hunts, genocide —- what a joke). Obviously you put a lot of thought into it. But I doubt you fooled anyone with your cloying words. All I heard was Blah Blah Blah. You sound like Herr Trump, i.e. “Fake News!” Are you seriously implying that there may be a SYSTEMIC child abuse problem within the FIRE DEPARTMENT??? ROTFLMAO And in regard to your assertion that both negative AND positive reviews can be found on both sides, regardless of the organization (or business???), I agree. After all, wasn’t that the case with the Third Reich?
It amazes me how shills like you always equate criticism with “hate”. If a person or group is evil, it’s EVIL. If something is wrong, it’s WRONG. If a policeman pulls you over for speeding, do you accuse him/her of a hate crime? Try it sometime.
There is a reason the Jehovah’s Witness Cult is known as the Pedophiles’ Paradise.
Dear Balanced View
I’m glad you commented, because your statements reflect the extraordinary lack of comprehension of all of the issues and factors pertaining to why the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses is under investigation by civil authorities around the globe. Your language and word choice include words like “hate” and “witch hunt” and “rampage” and “inflammatory.”
None of those words apply to this article or any other piece produced by JW Survey. Clearly, you have not read the article, nor have you investigated the policies and procedures of Jehovah’s Witnesses in reference to child abuse reporting concerns. Somehow you suffer from the delusion that there are just a few bad individuals who are responsible for isolated acts of abuse, and that the organization bears no responsibility for protecting children, either inside the religion or out. Your thinking process is a dangerous one, as it places no responsibility on the individuals who should be cooperating with law enforcement and protecting our children.
In this case and nearly every other JW child abuse case, the congregation elders are instructed by Watchtower headquarters NOT to report the abuse, using the clergy-penitent exception loopholes as a defense for not reporting. This by design, and it is why Watchtower is losing lawsuits every month, and will continue to pay millions of dollars in settlements and fines until they finally get the message.
Your comments are typical of the JW thought process, which is to say that you make accusations of “half-truths” – then fail to explain what they are. The reality is that you’re simply mad that this religious group is being held accountable for their intentional failure to report abuse to the authorities- and it’s costing the average JW dearly. Each time a report is not made, more children are placed in harm’s way. That is EXACTLY what happened in this Arkansas case. There’s a lot going on behind the scenes with this case, but I can tell you this- the fact that this elder’s abuse of several dozen children was not reported to the authorities has led to the abuse of all those mentioned in the police report from Arkansas. Again- there are many more victims you are unaware of- and the elders obstructed justice in every one of these cases.
The organization harbors a very large database of child abusers as well as victims, and none of this is turned over to the proper authorities. In nearly all states, members of clergy MUST report abuse, yet Watchtower insists of finding loopholes around this, when there is absolutely nothing “scriptural” which would prevent them from reporting these cases. They simply won’t do it, and this has gone on for as long as the organization has existed.
Your analogy of the firefighters is glaringly absurd – First of all, no one is going on a “rampage” – and second, we hold ALL organizations responsible for the mandatory reporting of abuse, and this quite literally includes non-religious groups such as the Boy Scouts and medical professionals. OF COURSE they are held accountable- just as religious groups are. If you researched child abuse among these institutions you would understand that completely. As a society, we hold accountable any individual who has a position of trust in the community, whether religious or otherwise. If their policies are flawed, they must change or be held accountable.
To understand this, all you would need to do is examine the findings of the 2015 Australian Royal Commission on Institutional Responses to Child Abuse. Jehovah’s Witnesses were just one of many groups investigated. Read the reports- they are all freely available to the public.
Finally- whether you like it or not- Jehovah’s Witnesses are a cult – but you won’t know that if you’re in it. That’s how undue influence works.
I wish you all the best in our recovery, and encourage you to research the facts of all of these cases, and put your personal feelings aside during the process.
Amen. I hope Imbalanced View reads it and takes it to heart. There’s someone whose thinking definitely needs “readjusting”. lol
I see your point Balanced view, and I agree with it to a point. That is I understand that you must believe WT is labeled a cult by some on this site because of its failed child protection policies.
But what you leave out is that most of the comments on this site offered by the folks in this section, not these articles John is writing, are calling WT a cult for other reasons. Not because John Redwood is writing articles about child molestation. We get into all types of discussions here, God, religion, as those two topics relate to anthropology, the evolutionary theory, specific religious groups and their teachings.
Let me post a quote from your comment, before I further state why I am writing you, and one of the chief reasons I , as an individual, comment on this site. You wrote, “No one has ever gone (on) a rampage against the world wide fire department community because of the abusers within their local ranks. Neither should this be done for any religious or other organization, period.”
This is my point. WT has gone on a rampage labeling every other Christian that is not a Jehovah’s Witness a misled Christian, misled by an apostate Christian group they or their parents attached themselves to, and they are going to hell unless they become a Jehovah’s Witness and agree to accept every doctrine WT teaches, or else after baptism get kicked out of the Christian Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses, by getting disfellowshipped for apostasy, and then sent to hell. Oh, let me add, if a person dies prior to the great tribulation they might escape the eternal hell part, but all the other parts they wouldn’t.
That’s why people here label WT a cult. For that reason and other consequences I didn’t mention that are brought against members. Who told YOU, as a member, or WT as your leader that you could do that with Christ’s backing? Read your Bible. And don’t assume I am a disgruntled apostate that was kicked out, because I tell you the truth. I never was kicked out, nor was anyone in my family ever kicked out. We left once we realized WT is a cult, it’s not Christianity as spoken of in scripture.
My point is since you asked what gives someone THE RIGHT to blast a religion or another organization because some members do bad acts. I ask you what gives you and WT the right to condemn Christians because they have some wrong interpretations about scriptures. Wake up. You have wrong interpretations about scriptures and WT has since its beginning. You WILL BE judged LIKE you are judging others, and what you are doing is not what Christ told you to do. You are doing what he told you not to do. That makes WT an apostate.
WT is not doing what all Christians are told to do at Romans the 14th chapter, quoted below:
Now accept the one who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of passing judgment on his opinions. 2One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only. 3The one who eats is not to regard with contempt the one who does not eat, and the one who does not eat is not to judge the one who eats, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it for the Lord, and he who eats, does so for the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who eats not, for the Lord he does not eat, and gives thanks to God. 7For not one of us lives for himself, and not one dies for himself; 8for if we live, we live for the Lord, or if we die, we die for the Lord; therefore whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died and lived again, that He might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
10But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God.
11For it is written,
“AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,
AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD.”
12So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this—not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother’s way. 14I know and am convinced in the Lord Jesus that nothing is unclean in itself; but to him who thinks anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15For if because of food your brother is hurt, you are no longer walking according to love. Do not destroy with your food him for whom Christ died. 1
Hey…Balanced View commenter…
Miriam Webster Dictionary.
cult
noun, often attributive
\ ˈkəlt \
Definition of cult
1: a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious (see SPURIOUS sense 2)also : its body of adherentsthe voodoo culta satanic cult
1.JEHOVAH’S WITNESS beliefs ARE “Unorthodox” compared to Christianity.
2a: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (such as a film or book)criticizing how the media promotes the cult of celebrityespecially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad
2.JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES have already confessed to being a “Movement” out of their own publications.
b: the object of such devotion
b.JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES say… they follow God. But concede to every whimsical teaching taught as TRUTH by the MEN they follow, called the G.B. who ends up in reality being their true “object of devotion”.
c: a usually small group of people characterized by such devotionthe singer’s cult of fansThe film has a cult following.
c. JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES “say” their 8 million. Which is is still “a small group of people” even in comparison to a single U.S State.
3: a system of religious beliefs and ritualalso : its body of adherentsthe cult of Apollo
3.JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES perform the black mass “ritual” of Not partaking of the blood and flesh of Christ. They and Satanists PASS IT OVER in REJECTION… oh, aside of the LESS THAN 0.1% who claim to be annointed.
And the list goes on. JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES “ARE A CULT” by DEFINITION.
When it comes to any abuse, we need to be caring and loving toward the victims. We need to ensure that justice is done. Only then can there be true closure. We would be remiss in our duty as fellow humans to ignore their suffering and allow the perpetrator(s) to continue enjoying the same freedoms as the rest of us, who follow the law, do. It would be unloving and irresponsible. The truly loving and kind thing to do, the course of action that would most ensure the security and stability of society, and the prevention of such atrocities in the future, is to ruthlessly target the offending person / criminal organization, to place unbearable pressure upon them, to criticize, expose, and vilify them, to leave them NO wiggle room, NO breathing space, NO path to slither away. Until JUSTICE is served. THAT is the truly loving, righteous, and decent thing to do.
Here are the top ten warnings signs of a cult;
Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability
No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as independently audited financial statement.
Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect the same pattern of grievances.
There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the leader/group.
Followers feel they can never be “good enough”.
The group/leader is always right.
The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing “truth” or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
Isn’t one definition of insanity, Doing the same thing over and over, and expecting a different result? Well, Early Man had many things to fear. Will the hunt be successful, so I can feed my family tonight? Will there be enough rain this season? How cold will the winter be this year? Will I be eaten by an unpleasant beastie with long, sharp teeth? Will I or someone in my family just keel over and die for no explicable reason, like my cousin Uglug? Will that large volcano over yonder finally erupt and wipe out my entire tribe? So he invented gods to pray to and rely on for protection (and maybe even offer the odd human sacrifice to), so that he and his family could go to bed at night with a warm fuzzy feeling in their tummies. And how has that worked out? Has ANY religion ANYWHERE stopped volcanoes from erupting, prevented earthquakes, mollified the weather system, prevented mass extinctions, ended disease, or drought, or famine, or flood, or even war? NOPE. NADA. NYET. NEIN. NOT ONCE. NOT EVER. In fact, there have been incidences when, during an impending natural disaster, some deluded folks have “fled” into a church/mosque/temple/synagogue/kingdom hall, instead of doing the smart thing and evacuating the area, and been wiped off the face of the earth. Tragic. Yet here we are, in the 21st century, with billions of religious devotees, some even to a fanatic or extreme level, still following old Mugloog’s stone-age superstitions. And most still take for granted all the advancements that have made our lives physically easier, safer, and healthier (medicine, indoor plumbing/heating/cooling, sanitation, electricity, transportation, infrastructure, etc, etc, etc), provided, not by any religious or voodoo magic, but by research, development, science, and technology.
If you believe in God, fine. If you feel the need to pray to God, fine. If He talks back to you, well that’s between you, Him, and your psychiatrist. But organized religion, with all its rituals, garb, and pomp and circumstance? Really?
Prove me wrong.
Oh yeah, there is one thing that organized religion does provide – in spades – PROMISES.
PROMISES PROMISES PROMISES.
…Cults even more so.
Grunted when you asked if any religion has done the list of those things you ran down, the answer is yes? The persons in the Jewish religion through God did.
“It’s official: Latinos now outnumber whites in California”
“The official confirmation had to wait until new population figures were released by the Census Bureau this summer. The new tally, released in late June, shows that as of July 1, 2014, about 14.99 million Latinos live in California, edging out the 14.92 million whites in the state.” From a Los Angeles Times article online in 2014.
Richard Nixon and Ronald Reagan were both white republicans from California, prior to getting elected to the USA presidency. Reagan used to be our governor, and Nixon used to be one of our senators in CA. Back then CA’s demographic was primarily white non-Latino. From that excerpt I posted above, from a 2014 Los Angeles Times News Paper, the Latino population became the largest racial demographic in CA back in 2014. And it didn’t jump up there. It grew up in a slope, over the years. No doubt illegal aliens made their contribution to that growth. Now, as a state, CA always votes for a democratic president.
At the time of our 2016 presidential election California had 55 electoral votes. Far more than the second runner up, which was Texas, that had 38 electoral votes. Texas almost always votes for republican presidential candidates.The last democrat for president that the Texan majority voted for was Jimmy Carter back in 1976. But, “Hispanic Texans are set to outnumber non-Hispanic whites in the Lone Star State as soon as 2022, according to new data released by the U.S. Census Bureau on Thursday.” ( report from the Hill, online in 2017) It is known by Democrats and Republicans that every county in Texas that has a larger Latino population than those counties having non-Latino white populations votes for democratic presidents every time, even though, for now, the state of Texas votes for republican presidential candidates.
If enough Texas counties become primarily Latino, the voting trends of Latinos in Texas strongly suggests Texans will vote for democratic presidential candidates, in the same way CA has in EVERY election since Reagan left office in 1989.
That’s what this Hubbub about Donald Trump is Outandabout. Flipping Texas and other states by flooding them with Latinos. In order to not only defeat republicans in presidential election, but in House and Senate elections also. It’s all about money and power, and OUR SIDE or our team winning as democrats. It’s not about Trump breaking laws, or an abundance of humanitarians in the democratic party. They aren’t stupid enough to come out and tell you why they are raising their stink, because the real reasons are those self-serving truths. If known that definitely would cause the dems to lose some of the white non-Latino vote. Thus defeating their purpose to increasing their votes.
I listened to the hearings the House held today with John Dean, and those other three lawyers who were so called witnesses. Actually they witnessed nothing more than hearing the news (they were even guests on cable shows claiming Trump committed collusion before Mueller’s report was out). And since they witnessed nothing they were just opinionated advisers, not witnesses. Three of them brought out the information in Mueller’s report that you and they claimed identify Trump as obstructing justice. One of them refuted their claims, and he said there was no obstruction. After hearing what Mueller wrote, my assessment is that with an impartial jury hardly would any DA get a conviction against Trump for obstruction. Even if he WAS NEVER a president. Criminal judgments require a 100% jury agreement. It wouldn’t happen, shy a jury of people like you Outy, that would like to get Trump purely because he claims to have a big brain, or build a wall, or said some Mexicans criminally crossing the boarder are bad people, or said some of the people who wanted to stop a government owned statue, of a famous Southern American from being torn down, were good people. All of which apparently makes him an orangutan to you, which means you have a bias against Trump. And that my friend is why the CNN so-called FAKE NEWS and the dems are feeding you their propaganda. Not so that Trump gets convicted, but so they can gain more government offices for dems.
But if you remember, way , way back, in never-never land, I brought this NEWS propaganda up to discuss propaganda, how it works, and how it effects people, not Trump. And the comparison I made way back then is that by telling people the same false stories over, and over, and over, and over again WT can get JWs to believe those stories, because the people who tell those stories have authority. And I raised the question to you, if the media could do that to you, couldn’t the Devil do it to you also through media and other forms of communication, say academics? That is if he really exists.
Some posts on this site instantly go through. Others instantly disappear. And if a copy of those disappearing posts is sent in right after that, a message appears claiming it’s a duplicate, showing the site grabbed it, but did not post it or the duplicate. Waz up?
Is it any wonder that most religions and cults have a less-than-admirable track record when it comes to protecting children? I mean, just read the bible. The Old Testament is full of incidences where the J-man literally commands the Hebrews to attack a city and kill every man, woman, AND child, to leave nothing and no one alive. The last plague on Egypt was the death of every firstborn, regardless of age. After David committed adultery with Bathsheba, the baby was stricken, and died, as punishment. Now, of course, ooooof cooourse, watchtower has answers to that, like, “Well, those Canaanite tribes worshipped false gods, sometimes even offering their own children to them as sacrifices.” Sooooo, as horrible as that was, are we expected to believe that the Canaanite children experienced a better fate at the hands of an invading army that slaughtered them ALL???!!! That makes absolutely NO sense. Perhaps Yahweh’s reasoning was, “Listen, if anybody is gonna be killing children around here, it’s gonna be ME! And when I do something, I do it THOROUGHLY.”
Even in the New Testament, there is not much said about kids. OK, Jesus said, “Let the children come to me”, which, these days, is some pretty awful advice, especially in regards to clergy. Now it should be more like, KEEP THE CHILDREN THE HELL AWAY FROM THOSE FREAKS !!!
The strongest admonition regarding children that I recall, is, “Fathers, do not be irritating your children.” Ummm, yeah, OK. And exactly what the hell does that mean? Don’t tell too many Dad jokes?
Just watched a report on CBS News – Child Abuse in the U.S. Southern Baptist Church – since 1998, 700 reported cases, perpetrated by 380 clergy & volunteers. Same cover-up tactics as Witch Tower: “Don’t worry, we’ll handle it ourselves. No need to contact authorities.” Then nothing.
I personally never liked those freaks.
where else but in a church and under the watchful gaze of a loving god can children be abused by so many for so long.
Where else but in a church can you lose your family and friends and possibly your job in fact, your whole support system and be labeled evil if you decide to leave. I cannot think one other organisation or group that exists where that could happen.
Being an atheist, there is only one group of people I feel I truly hate and that is those who seek to inflict their will on others. I’ve decided that having only one group to hate is not good enough for me and I’d like to legitimately hate a few more groups and so I’ve decided to become a Christian which means I get to do a lot more hating and with Gods blessing.
As a Christian, I’m now free to hate people from other religions…. which is most of the world, Apostates, Gay’s, etc, people who have abortions…. in fact I’m free to demonstrate my feelings for the sanctity of life by murdering an abortion doctor, scientists…. except for creation scientists, and people who recognise climate change.
As a Christian, I’m now also primed to believe without any real evidence every conspiracy theory going and such thinking aligns nicely with my belief the government/Caesar is going to try and crush me and I’ll probably end up dangerously paranoid as a result and start collecting a mountain of guns. But hey, goes with the turf. Can’t wait to get started.
Matthew 5:43-48 New International Version (NIV)
Love for Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous
Here is a quote from the Watchtower magazine of February, 2017, p 26 par 12. It should put to rest the discussion of whether the WT claims its writings are inspired of God. It doesn’t. And it hasn’t in all the years I’ve been affiliated with it, which is since 1975. Neither have I found any historical evidence where it claimed to be inspired. All the historical evidence I’ve found denies that assertion coming from others on this site.
Quote:
“The Governing Body is neither inspired nor infallible. Therefore, it can err in doctrinal matters or in organizational direction. In fact the Watch Tower Publications Index, ‘Beliefs Clarified,’ which lists adjustment in our Scriptural understanding since 1870.”
To me, and maybe only to me on this page, since I am a Christian among many who are not, the WT’s claim to be inspired or not is not a very big issue. A far larger issue is the fact that it knows it is not inspired, it knows it misinterprets scriptures, and yet it peaches every other Christian not a JW is an apostate; because WT claims, those others do the exact same thing WT knows it is doing. It’s a bigger hypocrite than those who killed Jesus Christ. At least those guys back then, in the Bible record, didn’t admit they did the exact same thing they killed Christ for. WT admits that it does the exact same thing it condemns Christians for, that it is inaccurate in its Bible interpretations, and inaccurate when giving Bible directions on how to live a Christian life. Now, if that blatant hypocrisy doesn’t start ANY active Jehovah’s Witness to question what WT is (a possible apostate church), it’s my belief nothing will. Everything else WT does can logically be excused, due to its own claim above, that we are imperfect and make mistakes, not inspired of God. But THAT CLAIM proves it to be the ultimate religious hypocrite.
And as I have posted a few posts up above this post, THAT is the reason WT will be judged. THAT is the reason WT will die. What I don’t know is how many JWs WT will take with it because of the judgmental attitude it has instilled in individual JWs due to accepting this holier than thou hypocrisy that LACKS common sense reasoning.
I previously wrote that some posts didn’t get through to be posted. I wonder if that happened because I hit copy on my computer, to copy those before I sent them. I just thought about this because when I copy a post I cannot write in this message box to modify it, until I click the cursor several times inside and outside this message box. Maybe during the time period that I cannot write in the box the message can be sent and received, but not posted. That’s one possible explanation for failing to see those posts. I don’t know if it’s the answer, just a guess that it might be.
the WT talks out both sides of it’s mouth on this issue, messenger,and you’re just choosing which side you wish to believe. But this sort of behavior is exactly what the bible allows one to do because it does it all the time so WT and yourself are free to parrot the behavior of that faulty document with a clear conscience. WT will turn a ‘does not exonerate’ statement into a ‘complete exoneration’ statement if it serves a purpose and do a complete reversal if and when it suits. Thats no way to search for or to preach truth.
It all has to do with understanding the terminology Outandabout. What I speak is not because I am taking a side on what WT has taught. It’s because I understand what WT taught. I was a JW myself over 40 years, an appointed WT servant in three congregations, gave WT talks from their stage every week, worked for years with other appointed servants of WT. And none of them believed WT ever claimed what you say it did. Because it didn’t, not because of what I choose to say. I state the facts. No Witness I ever met believes your claim, thus the excuse is ALWAYS offered the GB and elders are imperfect men, and so make mistakes.
Now Outandabout, if you cannot understand WT’s terminology then why do you believe you can understand God’s? Understanding God’s messages requires his permission. You have WT’s permission, but you can’t even understand what it teaches. So, you get upset when someone brings the truth out that YOU DON’T KNOW what the message is. The same thing happened with the people Christ spoke to. They got upset at his message. And I work for him. So, to me, because of that reason, your reaction is understandable, but a dangerous one for you.
“spirit-inspired”, “spirit-directed”, what’s the difference? Semantics.