At least two kingdom halls in Chile have been photographed displaying the national flag
At least two kingdom halls in Chile have been photographed displaying the national flag

Political neutrality has long been a hallmark of Jehovah’s Witnesses, at least in theory if not always in practice. Any use of national flags, whether by means of saluting or displaying them, has traditionally been viewed as a forbidden form of idolatry – a rejection of “kingdom rule” in favor of human governments.

For example, a 1977 Watchtower insisted that “while respecting the rights of others to do what they want, Jehovah’s Witnesses do not share in flag ceremonies.” (w77 1/15 p.63)

Imagine, then, the surprise of many devout Witnesses to behold the spectacle of at least two kingdom halls in Chile displaying the national flag at the front of their buildings – alongside the JW.org logo!

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Chile has a special two-day national celebration, known as Fiestas Patrias, on September 18th and 19th. On these two days, ALL public buildings are to display the national flag, either on a flag pole or otherwise adorning the front of the building. Any institutions that refuse to show the flag do so at the risk of paying a fine.

Though reportedly some congregations would rather pay the fine than display a national symbol on a building dedicated to worship, it seems not all the bodies of elders in Chile see it as a problem.

Some have suggested that the disparity has been caused by congregations being instructed by the branch that they can decide for themselves whether to show the flag or not, but that if they refuse to show it they will be liable themselves for paying any fine. This has yet to be verified.

Whatever the thinking behind this, to display national flags at the front of dedicated kingdom halls flies in the face of the supposed political neutrality stance – an issue that was highlighted so graphically by the Mexico-Malawi scandal of the 60s, 70s and 80s. It seems that the extent to which Witnesses observe political neutrality depends largely on what part of the world they live in and, crucially, how much money is involved.

One pro-Watchtower website has already expressed frustration at the issue. JW-Archive.org showed the photos with the comment: “My question to the Chilean brothers is… Why not just pay the fines? I am sure Brooklyn would pay them for you if you requested.”

If reports that Chilean elders were told to go it alone by Watchtower are really true, then “Brooklyn” would likely not be as enthusiastic to dip into its coffers on this matter as many Witnesses would like to think.

 

 

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Further reading…

Related video…

152 thoughts on “Kingdom halls in Chile display the national flag

  • September 28, 2014 at 7:13 am
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    Hey everyone. I respect your replies to my comment. I will take it into consideration. Thank you for your responses.

    Much love to you all and Cedars. I know we are all in this together in the end.

  • September 28, 2014 at 7:32 am
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    do you have a source for these pictures ?>

    • September 28, 2014 at 7:36 am
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      Hello man, welcome to JWsurvey.

      I don’t personally know the individual with the camera, but I don’t need that information to know the pictures are authentic.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:19 am
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    what i mean is that sat here how can i know these pictures are real ? not made up etc

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:24 am
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      By applying critical thinking skills, asking about why someone would fake a picture of this nature rather than, say, something more explosive (Tony Morris running over a kitten), and examining the pictures up close and applying rudimentary knowledge (if you have any) of Photoshop. I am pretty handy with Photoshop myself and I find it highly unlikely, if not impossible, that a single one of these images are fake – let alone all of them.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:26 am
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    i know you dont like me (cedars) but hey we trying to work out truth are we not ? if we are not im out :)

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:28 am
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      I don’t like you or dislike you, because I don’t know you. Are you telling me you don’t think the pictures are authentic, or are you honestly asking for an opinion?

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:28 am
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    can i have a link ?

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:29 am
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    i want the link so i can examine this as i would examine any teaching be it the watchtower or anyone else ?

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:33 am
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      So far I’m not bowled over by your investigative skills. If you re-examine the article and the footer (where it says “further reading”) you will see all the links I currently have available. If following your examination your conclusion is that the images are fake you are entitled to that conclusion. The great thing about this website, and others that are free of Watchtower control, is that you’re free to think what you like. But it sounds like you won’t be satisfied until you’ve shaken hands with the photographer and found the flags themselves folded up in the closets of both kingdom halls.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:34 am
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    a link to the pictures for …… goodness sake lol

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:35 am
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      If you don’t know how to download the pictures by right clicking on them, I’m not sure there’s much I can do for you.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:36 am
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    no thats not the case , i just need proof of anything before i make a decision

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:38 am
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      That much is obvious. I can only hope you are this skeptical about everything you are told in Watchtower publications.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:38 am
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    sorry i know how to right click etc but how do i know the pics are true , you need to prove your accusation !

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:44 am
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      Oh dear, this is getting very silly. If you suspect the pictures are faked, then by all means get them professionally examined and come back to us with your findings. However, as someone who is a qualified artist with an educational background in photography and a competency in Photoshop I am satisfied that the pictures are genuine, as are the majority of my readers, and we have even had someone purporting to be from Chile commenting to say this practice is widespread in that country (despite that person defending the practice). Again, if you really want to jump through hoops to suggest the pictures aren’t authentic, that’s your prerogative. But it sounds like you might have more reasons to believe they’re fake than the rest of us.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:42 am
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    you have indeed walked yourself into a corner im not a clever or well educated man but i can see what i see

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:45 am
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      I would agree with some of that.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:43 am
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    can i contact you in person ? i will give my email ? thanks man

    • September 28, 2014 at 8:44 am
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      I’d rather you didn’t.

  • September 28, 2014 at 12:15 pm
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    I’ve been told the Chilean flag is in Swiss chocolate, and the Chilian JWs will eat it afterwards. Did I got the right information ? Anyway I just wanted to bring a relaxation message. Please forgive me if I was wrong to do it.

  • September 28, 2014 at 1:00 pm
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    The important thing is not the number of flag outside the KH, but the number of fags inside. Let us be realistic !

  • September 28, 2014 at 1:27 pm
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    man, there is a link under “Menu” to contact “us”. Perhaps you could leave your message to Cedar there.

    • September 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm
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      imacountrygirl2 – for the record, the reason I was reticent to get into an email exchange with him is that I really do struggle as it is replying to emails from people who are sincere, coherent, and capable of rudimentary critical thinking, without the added burden of dealing with people bereft of those attributes.

  • September 28, 2014 at 1:31 pm
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    Cedars, I think what man is looking for is “authentication”, which as I understand is a common practice before accepting a picture at face value.

    I don’t consider it out of line to ask for that.

    You may indeed be an expert on pictures, but most of us are not.

    • September 28, 2014 at 1:39 pm
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      I am personally convinced the pictures are genuine, which is reflected in my article. If people wish to assert the pictures aren’t genuine, I am happy to review any evidence they bring to the table. I would suggest, however, that those who doubt the authenticity of the pictures without showing any interest in presenting evidence to support their assertions are more likely taking this position out of denial than offering an objective response to the material.

      • September 28, 2014 at 1:45 pm
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        And bear in mind we are not just talking one photo, but five photos all showing the same thing. At some point the weight of evidence becomes such that it can’t realistically be written off as a hoax.

  • September 28, 2014 at 1:34 pm
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    Cedars, please do not think I am attacking you. I just spent over thirty minutes composing a reply in defense of you on a different post.

    Sometimes, we just need to slow down and take a deep breath to get us thinking clearly.

    • September 28, 2014 at 1:40 pm
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      I don’t think you’re attacking me at all, and I’m grateful for your kind words earlier. I don’t think there was any anger or irritation in my reply to you, but if there is any there, it is unintentional. That’s the trouble with making written responses, you can’t see that I’m smiling when I’m typing. ;)

  • September 28, 2014 at 1:43 pm
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    “I really do struggle as it is replying to emails from people who are sincere, coherent, and capable of rudimentary critical thinking, without the added burden of dealing with people bereft of those attributes.”

    Cedars, I do realize the struggle it must be to deal with all kinds of people.

    While I highly respect you Cedars, your response does seem judgmental to me.

    Your brief exchanges with man, hardly warrants charges of lacking in his ability to be “sincere, coherent, and capable of rudimentary critical thinking”.

    • September 28, 2014 at 1:51 pm
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      I’m sorry if I came across as judgmental. It’s late and I’m tired. It’s been a long day and I still need to proofread a document for my business. My powers of diplomacy are not at their zenith under these circumstances. You are entitled to see “man’s” queries as sincere, but bear in mind I was around when the exchange happened and I didn’t sense in his quick-fire comments someone who sincerely wanted answers, but was more interested in pouring doubt on the article and showing a pretense of being sincere. Maybe my powers of discernment are fine-tuned after 2/3 years of dealing with trolls, or maybe I misread the situation. In any case, if I have erred, and “man” can figure out how to use the website and find the email address, he is welcome to email me and I’ll help him in any way I can.

  • September 28, 2014 at 2:27 pm
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    The Fiestas Patrias dates from the 19th century and is
    in celebration of independence from Spain.

    As vasili informs us it is normal to display the flag and
    is no problem for the elders. /
    But it is a problem for elders in the U,S,A,
    on the 4th of July

    More inconsistency , policy is based on expediency or
    the least costly option, and not on principle.

    Displaying the countries flag on your land is a patriotic
    statement as strong as if it was written up in bold
    letters. In Chile it’s saying. “This is my Fatherland that
    freed me from Spanish domination.

    It’s plainly nationalistic and therefore non neutral, and
    what goes in one country can get you disfellowshipped
    In another.

  • September 28, 2014 at 3:01 pm
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    No problem, my brother. Nothing that a good night’s sleep won’t fix.

  • September 28, 2014 at 3:38 pm
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    In the 1956 Watchtower page 580 under the name of the article Flags and Religion, it says “Early Christians were likewise extremely careful to avoid even the suspicion of compromise with the state or secular rule as regards their devotion.”

    In the 1971 Awake Sept. 8, article entitled “What do you know about flags?” it says on page 14 “There are Christians today who feel similarly regarding national flags. They are Jehovah’s witnesses. Their position is the same the world over. Being keenly aware of the Scriptural command to “flee from idolatry,” they decline to participate in flag ceremonies. – 1 Cor. 10:14″

    There are a lot of articles dedicated to the flag and saluting it and whether or not it is proper for a Witness to raise and lower a flag, I couldn’t find an article specifying whether or not a Kingdom Hall would have to display a flag in obedience to obeying the government as long as it didn’t go against Bible principles and laws. That isn’t to say that there are articles like that. I just didn’t find one myself. What I did find out was that if a person uses a “public” building for an assembly or something like that, then if there was a flag displayed, it wasn’t the Witnesses’ responsibility. There are quite a few articles dealing with whether or not a Witness can raise and lower a flag and a lot of articles dealing with saluting a flag and whether or not to stand or not and when it is proper to stay seating etc. Nothing saying whether a Kingdom Hall would be forced by the Government to display a flag or not.

    The Reasoning book under neutrality says on page 274 What scriptures have always had a bearing on the attitude of true Christians towards ceremonies involving flags and national anthems? and it has 1 Cor. 10:14 to flee from idolatry and 1 John 5:21 to guard yourselves from idols and Luke 4:8 it is to God you must worship.

    So, if the brothers in Chili see their Kingdom Hall as a “public” building and it’s up to their individual consciences if they want to compromise their “worship” by side-stepping what the Society says is clearly worship and compromise, I see another rule coming out soon in the Watchtower. How many does that make? After all, if they don’t spell out clearly each and every decision in our lives, how can these people make any intelligent decisions at all?

  • September 28, 2014 at 6:42 pm
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    @Interrogative – uhm, Freudian slip?

  • September 28, 2014 at 7:08 pm
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    A bit of History Repeating

    Looking back, when JW’s drummed up the no-blood rules, it was in the face of growing numbers from Mary Baker Eddy’s group of think/pray/heal which caused adherents to forego medical treatments. In circling the wagons, JW group-think kicked into high gear and made a matter of individual thought one of mandate. The flag salute in the 1940’s was another waffling issue where earlier the Watchtower’s President sought to avoid confrontation to the Watchtower’s President endorsing refusal to salute any flag, using the idolatry scriptures someone generously copied into the blog. That said, there was never a “don’t touch the flag,” “don’t display the flag,” “don’t respect the flag” mandate. Most JW’s followed the advice of standing respectfully and quietly during the USA’s morning allegiance ceremony in public schools while sitting quietly during National Anthems.

    Kingdom Halls are public buildings subject to rules and regulations covering public access and safety. I could believe elders raising a flag outside the building without batting an eye, because while it is displayed, there is no indication that this mandate** required them to salute it or offer up a “sacrifice” to this cloth idol. Yet, if you’re a frothing at the mouth ‘don’t tread on me, or my religious liberties’ type, then it probably raise the hairs on your neck to bring a flag to Kingdom Hall grounds. And, those types are probably wondering if a Christmas Tree or Easter Cross with colored scarves displayed in front of the Hall is next? while their liberal and moderate opposites are thinking, how they wish they could bring back the Christmas Tree and the Cross.

    Again, look beyond the shenanigans and hooligans going on for the real import and significance. Liberals, moderates and conservatives among JW’s are stuck together in one huge nutty-cluster of muck since no single individual (at this time) can raise their head up against the ruling committees and hierarchy and strike out as a splinter group, so expect to continually see these waffling compromises to accommodate all mindsets in the Watchtower’s one-size-fits-all BIG tent.

    **Although some countries have a “code” applicable to flag display (Title 4 of the USA, as example), it is generally found by SCOTUS as conflicting with constitutional (or inalienable and natural) freedom of expression to dispense punitive judgements for violating this “code”.

  • September 28, 2014 at 8:01 pm
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    @Cedars
    Your banter with ‘man’ was really comical (laughing at him, not with him).
    My observation is; why do the supporters of the Watchtower/Jehovah’s Witnesses almost always have such poor spelling and grammatical ability?!? Especially since they are receiving “the best education in the world”? (I always had so much trouble swallowing that claim!)
    You, Cedars, never fail to inspire me with your reasoning ability, intelligence and (it must be the British in you) quick wit!
    Maybe only the intelligent get out from the mind control?

  • September 28, 2014 at 9:24 pm
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    @JJ… Your comment is very truthful about jw’s. And I agree, ‘the intelligent of them get out from the brainwashing.’

    p.s…. I believe this article is truthful Cedars. Thanks for sharing and exposing their awful false teachings and beliefs.

  • September 29, 2014 at 8:18 am
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    I think that all of us have a tendency to be overly critical and judgemental sometimes. I believe being a JW will turn you into that kind of person if we are not careful. i think perhaps we shouldn’t “grasp at straws” here but instead focus on the issue at hand. Are the pictures real a fake? I’d like to throw my vote in and say they are probably real. I have a great deal of experience with Photoshop and they don’t appear super imposed or doctored in any way.

  • September 30, 2014 at 9:21 am
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    Quite something (not in judgemental way) to see a state flag raised on Watchtower property considering its supposed stance on neutrality. It was also quite something in becoming an NGO for a library membership. From an observer’s point of view and that of a membership point of view . . Would this action stumble some of Jehovah’s witnesses?

  • September 30, 2014 at 11:48 am
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    I wonder . . How would the Jews have responded if someone would have raised the king of Babylons flag in the temple?

  • September 30, 2014 at 11:49 am
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    Duplicity.

  • September 30, 2014 at 11:31 pm
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    Checkmate.

  • October 1, 2014 at 12:09 am
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    Well now the video there is little denying it. To think 12 months ago I would of dismissed this as utter B/S. Im just curious Lloyd but have you noticed an increase of traffic through you web site after you had written this. I think this one is pretty up there.

  • October 1, 2014 at 2:34 am
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    This can’t be right. Surely? How come it is only two congregations showing flags, not all?

  • October 1, 2014 at 2:42 am
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    If its two congregations out of world wide, it must be a rogue body of elders. The local elder body will be devolved.

  • October 1, 2014 at 2:47 am
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    gary,

    I agree with all your comments. However, the erroneous excuse of joining the UN as an NGO to use the library has been debunked. There is no requirement to join the UN to use its library. The unwitness produced an excellent video on youtube that covers this topic.

    You are right in saying that this was a reason given out by the WTBTS. How telling that the WTBTS has to resort to lying to the rank and file about this!

    Neutrality is observed if it will further the profits of the WTBTS and neutrality will be forsaken for the same reasons.

    I always enjoy your posts, especially when you quote Bob Dylan lyrics!

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • October 1, 2014 at 3:13 am
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    “Flag” by John Agard :

    What’s that fluttering in the breeze?
    It’s just a piece of cloth
    that brings a nation to its knees.

    What’s that unfurling from a pole?
    It’s just a piece of cloth
    That makes the guts of men grow bold.

    What’s that rising over the tent?
    It’s just a piece of cloth
    that dares the coward relent.

    What’s that flying across a field?
    It’s just a piece of cloth
    that will outlive the blood you bleed.

    How can I possess such a cloth?
    Just ask for a flag my friend.
    Then blind your conscience to the end.

    …..

    You can add :

    What’s that rising over a Kingdom Hall?
    …………………
    …………………

  • October 1, 2014 at 4:49 am
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    My latest comment :

    You can add :

    What’s that rising over a Kingdom Hall?
    ……………………….
    ……………………….

    Now you can conclude with whatever you feel like.

    The important is that now you feel comfortable outside of this cult.

    Sincereley

  • October 1, 2014 at 4:56 am
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    Hello to all.
    I can see watchtower trying to manfacture excuses.

    1 “Who is responsible for building a KH next to that flag?”
    2. “Right, hands up, who is drying laundry outside?”
    3. “We have been invaded”
    4. “I still think the curtain colour is fine!”
    For my friend Excelsior “But me, I saw it coming. I knew he`d lost control. He built a fire on main street and shot it full of holes” Memphis Blues. Robert Zimmerman aka Bob Dylan.

    Jerry.

  • October 1, 2014 at 6:51 am
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    Since I have been encouraged to quote Bob Dylan:-) ‘everything is broken’ (whole song:-) )

  • October 1, 2014 at 6:53 am
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    My psychiatrist says it’s perfectly normal:-)

Comments are closed.