The Society is contradicting its own condemnation of “name-calling” in its latest convention rant against so-called “apostates”

Jehovah’s Witnesses around the globe are currently attending the 2013 “God’s Word Is Truth” District Convention. One feature of Saturday’s programme that is causing a stir on YouTube is a talk that condemns “human apostates” – former Witnesses labelled by the Society as “mentally diseased.”

The Teaching Committee of the Governing Body is tasked with preparing material for conventions and assemblies, and it is these men who will have carefully worded the manuscript on which this controversial talk is based.

Having approved this material, the Governing Body will not be pleased to discover that one clever YouTuber has put together a four-minute video that uses their own words against them. Specifically, the Society has been shown to be hypocritically flouting its own condemnation of the spurious form of argumentation widely known as “name-calling.”

The video is based on a 2000 Awake! magazine entitled “Should You Believe Everything You Hear?” Under the heading “Name-Calling” page 6 says…

“Some people insult those who disagree with them by questioning character or motives instead of focusing on the facts. Name-calling slaps a negative, easy-to-remember label onto a person, a group, or an idea. The name-caller hopes that the label will stick. If people reject the person or the idea on the basis of the negative label instead of weighing the evidence for themselves, the name-caller’s strategy has worked.” (g2000 6/22 p.6)

The new video brilliantly contrasts the above with the words contained in the venomous “Human Apostates” talk, which includes recorded statements such as the following…

“Like Satan, human apostates are unruly men who cook up wicked reasonings and season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds. Their preference is to partake of falsehood at the table of demons. Human apostates are part of the seed of the serpent spoken of at Genesis 3 verse 15. If we wish to please Jehovah, we cannot be feeding at his table and at the same time be nibbling at the table of demons, eating from the hands of Satan’s helpers – human apostates.”

The video itself can be viewed below…

Sadly, this is not the first time the Governing Body has resorted to underhand tactics in suppressing those who dare to oppose their authority. Earlier this year I wrote an article entitled “Secrecy and deception: Watchtower fights dirty in its war against “apostates”,” which outlined the vilification, mud-slinging, secrecy and outright lies that have been successfully used by the Society for decades in fighting dissent.

Many who like me are known among Witness friends and relatives as disagreeing with the Society will be cringing that their loved ones will be exposed to such overt propaganda during the convention – deliberately intended to stir up hatred and suspicion.

It can only be hoped that some loved ones will see through the manipulation and comprehend what it really means – that the Society is desperately trying to hide something. Sadly, the reason that name-calling and denigration is now being employed so freely by the Society is because, as they themselves recognize, such tactics work only too well.

 

 

87 thoughts on “Governing Body breaks its own name-calling rules in “Human Apostates” convention talk

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:02 am
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    “Many who like me are known among Witness friends and relatives as disagreeing with the Society will be cringing that their loved ones will be exposed to such overt propaganda during the convention – deliberately intended to stir up hatred and suspicion.”

    I know the feeling only too well, how exJWs feel when we observe the Society engaging in this hateful tactic. There is one JW in particular with whom I have been fortunate to have had a few dealings in recent years after a very long time of silence. I even wondered from time to time whether that person was fading away from the JWs. But I cannot ask in case I am wrong. And whenever I read the Society’s regular hate propaganda I wonder whether the next time I try warily to make another phone call, it will result in a friendly conversation or a slap-down. I keep hoping for reconciliation.

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:28 am
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    I wonder when society will wake up and see ‘the new light’, and say “enough is enough”; and then orchestrate to put a permanent stop to this malicious repugnant plague called the WTB&TS. They are religious frauds and criminals.

    • July 8, 2013 at 1:46 pm
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      prove to me that there are no frauds and no criminals in all of today’s churches

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:30 am
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    Hopefully we have established a record over the years for stability and sound reasoning. I may have been many things for many years, while in bondage to the Watchtower, but blessed to now be one in Christ. I believe His voice is recognized by those that want more than Pharisaical religion.

    Jehovah-Rapha, our healing God, shed the light of reasoning among our friends and family still in bondage to this religion. I pray they come to life in Christ through the relationship You made available in Him, in Jesus’ name, amen.

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:40 am
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    It sounds like a creepy weird talk and I am SO glad I don’t have to go anymore. There is no way to protect their reputations against the free flow of information in this new age : ). They ought to be making sure that they will be found to be good when they are examined.

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:46 am
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    I have been letting my married son live in a second house I own for a very reduced rent. Recently he and his wife decided they need to move out of it into a small private flat where they will be paying an extra £200 per month. Interestingly this decision came just after I tried to get him to read the new light in the July 2013 Watchtower.
    Looks to me as if someone has said to him that it is not good to be living in an ‘apostates’ house

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:53 am
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    Nice analysis Cedars!

    The particular Awake! referenced is from the second of three in a series of articles on propaganda. These articles should be on the “MUST READ” list of every JW and ex-JW:

    6/22/2000:
    – Propaganda Can Be Deadly – p. 3
    – The Manipulation of Information – pp. 4-8
    – Do Not Be a Victim of Propaganda! – pp. 9-11

    http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/lv/r1/lp-e/0/19162

    When you read how well they understand the tools of propaganda and then you see how well they use them, you can only conclude that their deceptions are willful and deliberate.

  • June 19, 2013 at 6:57 am
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    It takes courage to stand up for what we know is really true and right. It has always been this way. We try to avoid pain whenever we can. But the rewards of a good clear conscience are worth the pain.

  • June 19, 2013 at 8:30 am
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    We do not need to be intimidated. We need to stay focused because we know what they are hiding. Remember who they call apostates: *** w11 7/15 p. 15 Will You Heed Jehovah’s Clear Warnings? ***
    “Apostasy” is a standing away from true worship, a falling away, defection, rebellion, abandonment.

    The definition of “apostasy” as stated by the GB is a REAL MENTAL PRISON. The definition implies that no one can leave the WTS safely. Either you stay in or you are an “apostate”.

    • July 8, 2013 at 1:38 pm
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      Explain to me please,Jesus words at John 8:17,18 he states: in your own law it is written the witness of two men is true, I am one that bears witness about myself, and the Father who sent me bears witness about me, here Jesus shows that he and the Father, that is Almighty God , must be two distinct entities, for how else could there truly be two witnesses

  • June 19, 2013 at 11:10 am
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    Je suis quelqu’un de très équilibrée mentalement et physiquement et je peux vous dire que depuis que j’ai envoyé ma lettre de démission de chez les Témoins de Jéhovah, je subis une persécution téléphonique depuis Juin 2012, mais ce qui me sauve, c’est mon sens de l’humour parce qu’ils veullent me faire craquer. Mais je revis
    et vois les choses maintenant supers belles et j’ai tout raté de ma vie à cause d’eux. Mais jamais ils me démoliront. beaucoup d’amour pour vous de la part d’une ex soeur de 71 ans.

  • June 19, 2013 at 1:58 pm
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    Has anyone mentioned the word “Desperate” before? (- :

    It is to be expected and far worse which is a good thing!

    • June 19, 2013 at 8:38 pm
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      …and racist? :-) too soon?

  • June 19, 2013 at 8:37 pm
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    Especially apostates who try to get you to read the current literature fo the Watchtower Society [aka “present truth”].

  • June 19, 2013 at 8:39 pm
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    To be called an apostate of an organization is not the same as an apostate of God’ Word. Organizations that overstep the commands of Christ….[ ” you heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbour and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to YOU: Continue to love YOUR enemies and to pray for those persecuting YOU; ” ]

    Organizations who fail to follow Christ’s commands have no right to call anybody names. Hatred destroys, love endures all things.
    Keep proving what you yourself are. Expose falsehood and uphold truth. The written record of an organization either shows they have stayed within the commands of Christ , or they have overstepped the commands of the Master. ” Continue to love YOUR enemies ……”

  • June 19, 2013 at 8:42 pm
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    So, let me get this right–pay close attention potential JW’s and current JW’s–

    If I enter into the world of JW’s, I will become mentally diseased and driven off as an ostracized leper?

    Or, I will be driven insane by JW’s? Am I reading this right? Anyone?

  • June 19, 2013 at 11:09 pm
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    Catmuug,
    Tu n’es pas une ex-soeur, mais une soeur!! Reste équilibrée mentalement, nous sommes avec toi!! Quand moi j’ai démissionné en février 2012 je ne savais pas que j’irais avoir access a de “choses supers belles” comme toi!! Meme s’ils continuent a utiliser ma femme qui reste dans cette secte destructrice, je tiens ferme et je les ai défiés grace a de site internet comme celui-ci!! Tout le monde a perdu, mais on est libre!! la pire perte c’est l’esclavage!!
    N.B:Excuse moi pour les accents.

  • June 21, 2013 at 12:06 am
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    Je suis si triste à cause de ma famille qui doit écouter ces mensonges de l’Organisation, j’assisterai l’assemblée et ils savent que je me sens de cette religion. Je prie seulement qu’ils peuvent m’accepter pour qui je suis et ne me refuse pas.

    • June 21, 2013 at 8:08 am
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      CM,
      A moins que ca soit un miracle, le changemet que tu attends n’est pas pour demain. L’organization qu’il suivent un maitre de la “propagande”!! Moi j’ai essaye en vain d’aider ma femme a sortir ca fait ajourd’hui 3 ans. J’ai finalement compris que c’est moi qui perdais emotionellement, et comparant la religion au tabac dont les membres dont des fumeurs ACTIFS, je me sentais dans une position de fumeur PASSIF, avec plus de degats que les fumeurs eux-meme. J’ai lache prise… c’est une longue histoire!!

      Je te propose de lire l’article “La foi est-elle une béquille psychologique ?” sur leur website et de rester serein. (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/wp20121101/religious-faith/).

  • June 21, 2013 at 12:09 am
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    it is interesting I just cannot wait to hear this in the spanish district convention I will be going to in california, I am only going because my entire family makes a thing out of going to these things like assembly’s and conventions and the memorial, however this is the first time they really know how I feel about the organization, makes me wonder how they will react. Every day i get sicker and sicker of the false teachings this religion teaches its followers.

    • July 8, 2013 at 1:02 pm
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      perhaps we should follow you as you know everything

  • June 21, 2013 at 7:55 am
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    CM, every body feels the same, you are not alone but remember the religions teaches they are the “The First Woe—Locusts”, “The Locust Plague Today” “Locusts Equipped for Battle” lead by ““angel of the abyss” and “Destroyer,” they call “Jesus” (Read REVELATION CLIMAX chapter 22 and 23 to understand our pain)

  • June 21, 2013 at 2:55 pm
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    Hakizimana Jean de Dieu – Merci pour votre encouragement. nous passons tous au début par les mêmes sentiments de vide. Personnellement, je vois que je suis plus abordable, plus souriante et les voisins viennent vers moi d’eux mêmes comme attirés, ce qui
    n’était pas du tout le cas, toujours à courir comme une folle, droguée par les fausses “lumières”. “La vérité vous fera libre” c’est vrai même si le réveil est dur. Leur discours sur les apostats est venimeux. Normal, le serpent est en fait leur maître mais cela
    nous le savions pas. Ils perdent des adeptes et se démènent comme
    un diable dans un bénitier d’église.

  • June 22, 2013 at 12:02 am
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    Hey I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but could you go to the media with this speech? When does England have its DCs? Ours in Australia are Aug-Sept. The news usually has a little article about the Conventions and about how well dressed everyone is and generally paints JWs in a good way. Telling the media what’s *really* going on will undo that. And besides, it’s hate speech! Society today really looks down on hate speech. Could undermine how JWs are received at the doors.
    I feel sorry for those poor WT slaves, but without them, the WT goes down.

  • June 22, 2013 at 6:51 am
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    Catmuug, pense à ce qui suit, les idées que j’ai tirées de leurs propres publications. Tu dicerneras en eux “des loups dans la peau de moutons” “des aveugles qui sont guidés par les aveugles”!!

    1) L’article “La foi est-elle une béquille psychologique ?” (w12 1/11 p. 23; http://wol.jw.org/fr/wol/d/r30/lp-f/2012810).

    2) “Notre œil ne devrait pas s’apitoyer sur ceux qui reçoivent un jugement de condamnation de la part de Dieu, et nous ne devrions pas éprouver de la compassion à leur égard.” (w07 1/7 p. 13; http://wol.jw.org/fr/wol/d/r30/lp-f/2007482).

    3) Analyse cette définition de l’apostasie: “L’“ apostasie ” consiste à s’éloigner du vrai culte, à déserter, à faire défection, à se rebeller, à abandonner.” (w11 15/7 p. 15-19 note en bas de paje; http://wol.jw.org/fr/wol/d/r30/lp-f/2011524).

    Fait une meditation sur ces points tu trouveras vraiment “des loups dans la peau des moutons”. A partir de cette definition de l’apostasie, tu trouves “UN PARADIS” ou “UNE PRISON”?. Rien ne nous est aussi cher que notre liberté!!!

  • June 22, 2013 at 9:18 am
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    “Like Satan, human apostates are unruly men who cook up wicked reasonings and season their brew with poisonous lies that deceive minds”

    Really? There is no analogy at all to anything like Satan on this side of the aisle at least, since the “cooking” and “lying” has been done already and people are simply making known what is fact and truth! How may I ask is this “apostasy” in even the remotest sense of the word? And further, how is that “unruly”? The truths regarding how most of us left that organization belies that blanket charge in fact and detail…often exposing crime, abuse and unruliness that oppose God and his laws from these very hypocrites!

  • June 22, 2013 at 9:41 am
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    Eternal Father, Elohim, though You do not walk visibly among us You do reveal Yourself through the minds, the hearts, and the actions of Your true followers. May the light of Jesus shine forth from us so that the unbeliever can sift through the confusing ungodly messages of this world and the counterfeit religious groups of this age. May they see through our words and actions “the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.” We especially lift up to You our friends and loved ones who have been blinded by the god of this age, and the sly deception he promotes through these same religious cults. We pray that You would dispel their doubts, fears, and unbelief in the gospel message we present, replacing these faith destroyers with confidence, courage and peace that comes through believing in and knowing You in relationship with Your one and only provision for Salvation, Jesus Christ.

    We know that Satan will use every form of manipulation to keep these ones from coming into relationship with You through your provision for Salvation, Jesus, we see that Satan employs desperate measures to accomplish his crafty schemes. Let them see Father, that the glitter of what is false is not Your way, that the polished and well spoken can be placed in their path in order to mislead. Give them a ear of discernment to pick up on messages meant to lead them astray. Just like any counterfeit item, one must know the real thing in order to discern the false, and this is why the false takes extreme measures to keep these ones away from all that is True in Christ, and just like any counterfeiter, he will do his utmost to keep those living in ignorance. Expose them Father God, make those wolves that are falsely misrepresenting You exposed for the hypocritical lyres that they are. Jehovah-Jireh You are able for You are our provider, You can touch the lives of those in bondage to parasitical religion and open their spiritual eyes, expose them Father for You alone are Jehovah-Rapha, our healer and God. In Jesus’ name we pray, amen.

    • June 22, 2013 at 11:39 am
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      Bill Siemon-Rapha

  • June 24, 2013 at 6:09 am
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    Who are apostates?
    in the Letter of March 6, 2012 TO ALL BODIES OF ELDERS “Re” Reminders from Kingdom Ministry School held during 2011 service year” the GB wrote “What is porneia?” Somewhere it is said:
    “Manipulation” conveys the idea of operating something, whether by use of the hands or some other means, and does not require skin-to-skin contact. Momentary touching of another’s genitals, even if intentional, would generally not be considered porneia.

    Who are apostates? if I was asked to believe that the GB represents Jehovah not to be named apostae, I would prefer to be named an APOSTATE with capital letters!!

  • June 24, 2013 at 2:21 pm
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    Julia Orwell June 22, 2013 at 12:02 am

    “Hey I don’t know if this has been mentioned, but could you go to the media with this speech? When does England have its DCs? Ours in Australia are Aug-Sept. The news usually has a little article about the Conventions and about how well dressed everyone is and generally paints JWs in a good way. Telling the media what’s *really* going on will undo that. And besides, it’s hate speech! Society today really looks down on hate speech. Could undermine how JWs are received at the doors.
    I feel sorry for those poor WT slaves, but without them, the WT goes down”

    Must be nice to have those kinds of protections! I know that Britain and Australia, elswhere have strong laws regarding Hate Speech and Harassment and Abuse both in life and online.
    In the US? Unless you are of a select group that is on the “list” and part of the social and political trend then you ar SOL!
    There are really no protections for the Mentally Ill, disabled or the homeless or destitute and disenfranchised to speak of and in the State of Arizona? I won’t even comment on such a deplorable and despicable circumstance!
    Just look at all that was permitted to take place on topix.com with abuse and harassment by Watchtower planted operatives and elsewhere…Was anything ever done? Or the criminal abuse that follows people from congregation to congregation as it did me and after they leave the organization…

  • June 27, 2013 at 4:32 am
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    I would like to address the the criticism against the Governing Body on this web site. Granted, they are not perfect (no one is), but would you rather take counsel from the Pope and his cardinals? Lutheran bishops? Pentecostal preachers? TV-evangelists? I’m guessing that all of you believe that Jehovah God is our Heavenly Father and sovereign ruler of the universe; that Jesus Christ is his son that died for our sins. I am also guessing that you don’t worship the cross celebrate Christmas or pray to saints. Neither do I think you believe the Trinity or faith healing. If the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the truth, who has?

    Maybe it’s difficult to get on board 100% with what the Governing Body is telling us, but are there any other Christian denominations/religions that do God’s will to the extent that the Witnesses do?

    I am not a Jehovah’s Witness myself, but I would never attend any other Christian meetings. The Bible knowledge they possess is unrivaled, and I feel privileged and blessed to have come in contact with them. My hope is that we can focus on the things that unite us as Christians.

    • June 27, 2013 at 4:51 am
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      Dombey – thank you for visiting our site and commenting. Your post raises a lot of questions. Here are a couple to get started. (1) You say, “If the Jehovah’s Witnesses don’t have the truth, who has?” – why is it a forgone conclusion that ANYONE has the full truth? (2) If you think Jehovah’s Witnesses are so wonderful, then why aren’t you one of them? It seems odd that you are persuading people on this site to become something that you yourself are not.

    • June 27, 2013 at 8:24 am
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      I appreciate the sincerity of your comment, but that is not a valid question in this sense; you only ask what would we rather do. I personally do not want to ‘listen’ or obey ANY of your other options. I believe God gave me the gift of free will and a sense of curiousity and that now I am responsible for myself. I need to figure things out with my own brain, and stop relying on imperfect men who want to be my guides.

      • June 27, 2013 at 8:40 am
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        Erik,

        You are lucky thinking in that way. I realized that I HAD TO BE FREE too late and quit the Watch Tower may be slightly late, but the price of freedom from that society is VERY HIGH!! Psychological injuries are for life!!

        • July 8, 2013 at 12:48 pm
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          The truth will always be in you until death

      • July 8, 2013 at 12:51 pm
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        choose between right and wrong your choice

      • July 8, 2013 at 12:55 pm
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        we are all sinners and imperfect and fall short of the glory of GOD,
        can we find someone out there that is perfect that can teach us the truth ??

    • July 8, 2013 at 12:46 pm
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      I agree with you 100% is all the other churches out there perfect ??? no why don’t they criticize the catholic church instead and leave JW alone

  • June 27, 2013 at 8:35 am
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    Dombey,
    I am afraid you have a good questions: WHO HAS THE TRUTH?
    Can you elaborate and ask this good one? : WHO are “ the false prophets+ that come to YOU in sheep’s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves.” ? (Matthew 7:15)!

    Answer that question and then ask yourself another one: WHAT IS THE TRUTH?

    The truth is:
    “he [Phin′e·has] went after the man of Israel into the vaulted tent and pierced both of them through, the man of Israel and the woman through her genital parts. At that the scourge was halted from upon the sons of Israel.” (Numbers 25:7-8).

    Another truth is in 2 Samuel 12:12. It reads: “This is what Jehovah has said, ‘Here I am raising up against you [David] calamity out of your own house; and I will take your wives under your own eyes and give them to your fellowman, and he will certainly lie down with your wives under the eyes of this sun. Whereas you yourself acted in secret, I [Jehovah], for my part, shall do this thing in front of all Israel+ and in front of the sun.’”

    WHO HAS THE TRUTH? What do Jehovah’s witness teach on THAT? You need to improve you thinking before you discover they are WOLVES in sheep’s skin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • June 27, 2013 at 9:02 am
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      Hakazimana, Will you please explain why you used those 2 scripturs? I want to understand. Thank you!

  • June 28, 2013 at 12:15 pm
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    Erik,

    It is just a sample, I could use many others like 2 Kings 2:23-24 which reads “And he proceeded to go up from there to Beth′el.+ As he was going up on the way, there were small boys+ that came out from the city and began to jeer+ him and that kept saying to him: “Go up, you baldhead!+ Go up, you baldhead!” 24 Finally he turned behind him and saw them and called down evil+ upon them in the name of Jehovah. Then two she-bears+ came out from the woods and went tearing to pieces forty-two children of their number.”

    Forty-two children torn in PIECES by two she-bears!!!!! WHO HAS THE TRUTH to the extent of calling others “APOSTATES”. Do you know how the Governing Body explains this STUPID STORY. Just two examples:

    1) *** w08 10/15 p. 23 par. 10 Do You Take the Lead in Showing Honor? ***
    When the people did not properly honor the appointed individuals, they were disciplined by Jehovah.—2 Ki. 1:2-17; 2:19, 23, 24.

    2) *** w05 8/1 p. 9 par. 6 Highlights From the Book of Second Kings ***
    2:23, 24. The main reason for this mocking of Elisha appears to be that a bald man was wearing Elijah’s official garment. The children recognized Elisha as Jehovah’s representative and simply did not want him around. They told him to “go up,” that is, keep going up to Bethel or be taken up as Elijah had been. The children evidently reflected the antagonistic attitude of their parents. How vital that parents teach their children to respect God’s representatives!

    WHO HAS THE TRUTH? What is the truth? I gave the scriptures to help people to REDEFINE “THE TRUTH” ON BASIS OF TODAY’S STANDARDS AND WAY OF THINKING!!

  • June 28, 2013 at 1:26 pm
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    To put it succintly, the question is not WHO has the Truth, but it is Who IS the Truth? That is Jesus Christ.

    But, in regards to JW’s…

    First, that is a nice summary of the overall peculiar details that
    differentiate Watchtower printed teachings from mainstream and orthodox

    Christian perspectives. However, one doesn’t have to be a Watchtower follower, or recognize the authority of the GB, to hold those beliefs. If you closely examine the origins–the historical details as presented by secular literature outside the realms of Adventism and Bible Students, you will find a common root in William Miller and, for those groups that disagreed with the prophetess Ellen G. White’s visions that formed the Seventh-Day Adventists (Sabbatarian), a common derivative of beliefs originating in the study of scriptures by John Thomas, founder of the Christadelphians.

    Around this same time of 1840-1847, a focus on the Advent was stirring many individuals from various Christian backgrounds to re-examine scripture and specifically the portions of Daniel to pinpoint the Second Advent. Among these was William Miller who soon had many loosely-knit individuals drawn to his lectures and tours. Many of these individuals soon began their own publications to tie together these loose-knit groups who were not coordinated as formal churches. To fast-forward, if you become studied in Jehovah’s Witnesses, you will note that George Storrs and Jonas Wendell greatly influenced Charles T. Russell’s perspective of the Advent (to the extent he sold off his businesses to focus on ministry), as well as his perspectives on what the bible teaches on various issues like hell, soul, trinity and salvation. The 144,000 Elect was once viewed as the max limit of any Bible Students to join the movement–the enlightened ones. Rutherford later revised this viewpoint. But, the 144,000 focus is also a highlight in other Adventist groups, such as the Davidian SDA, and the schism known as Branch Davidians (distant cousins of Jehovah’s Witnesses). That soul dies at death is often a central theme in all Adventist groups, and one found in Christadelphians.

    Charles Russell continued to do business with these disparate off-shoots of Adventism and Christadelphians when he purchased the Emphatic Diaglott translation. This translation was created by Benjamin Wilson a founder of a small church denomination with influences from Christadelphian beliefs. [end part 1 of 2].

    • June 28, 2013 at 2:51 pm
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      Wasn’t David Koresh from the branch Davidians? I mean the guy who holed up with his wives and kids in Waco, TX?

  • June 28, 2013 at 5:43 pm
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    That’s right… If you look at the history of these Millenial offshoots and branches there are many break-off groups, some non-volatile, others volatile. Branch Davidians eventually gave rise to a self-centered and self-focused leader with a fatalistic perspective.

    Kind of like the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons).

  • June 28, 2013 at 8:27 pm
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    I DID POST, ONCE AGAIN IT NEVER SHOWS UP, BUT AS BEFORE THIS COMPLAINT WILL MAKE IT. STRANGE ISNT IT !

  • June 28, 2013 at 8:46 pm
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    with this forum I always have to click “post your comment” at least twice…and wait…before it goes through and posts.

  • June 28, 2013 at 11:10 pm
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    To the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses, if by chance you do get to read this comment I hope that it will prick your consciences into repenting of your misguided actions and policies that have literally destroyed hundreds of thousands of families all around the world, if not millions.

    If not actions that are contrary to God’s Spirit will be followed by consequences.

    Just as an example from scripture which I’m sure that you all know quite well.

    King Rehoboam of the nation of Israel was given two different opinions or advice on how to treat the people of Israel.
    One by the wise older men, was to treat the people with kindness and not to be heavy handed on them and the other advice given by his peers (young inexperienced men) was to come down hard on the people and not give them an inch so to speak.

    Which advice did he listen to?

    He foolishly listened to the advice that appealed to him, that of the younger men.

    And what was the result?

    Well as the scriptures go on to show, he literally had ten tribes ripped away from him and ended up with a very small kingdom to rule over. A hard lesson to learn indeed.

    Why am I referring to this example in this here comment?

    Well it should be obvious to you that if you continue down the same path of harsh rules and penalties and control of the members of your organization you will reap the consequences.
    Not only do you indirectly continue to cause undue suffering on many families who have a disfellowshiped member in there midst causing distress but also you are as it seems hell bent and deliberately causing divisions in the family units who make up your organization.
    No wonder many are suffering from depression and sadness and such, because you have inflicted this upon them from expecting them to obey your command that you do not have anything to do with them except in (emergencies) whatever that maybe.
    But some because of your policies and there own hard hardheartedness go even further than this as a result of lacking Christ-like love.

    Jesus said to love your enemies, but you guys go one step
    further and think that you are better than Jesus by indicating that you should even go so far as to despise the one who is a “human apostate”, by declaring them as mentally diseased and therefore abhorrent to even approach in any way, not even a quick hello to a once loved family member.

    Is this the way to treat God’s sheep and potential children of his?
    Please remember Jesus parable of how you treat the least of his sheep, that is how you treat him.

    You state recently in no uncertain terms that these ones are partaking of the table of the demons, and as it seems for simply even not agreeing with your draconian doctrines that are more akin to the Devil collective and beast-like mentality of the world than to that of God’s spirit which is characterized by the fruitage of the Spirit as you only know to well.

    I believe that God’s desire and purpose is and has always been for the world of mankind to progress towards being a happy and united brotherhood made up of unique individuals and as a
    spiritually mature race and does not desire any to be destroyed but all to be saved if at all possible.

    To this endeavor he does not control the free will of any individual sentient beings who exist throughout his creation.
    As unique individuals they all are free to choose their own destiny.
    Of course the way they choose will ultimately either lead to blessings and eventual eternal life, or problems and heartache and eventual non-existence if they do not repent of their mistakes and sins.

    There are now among you a small group of enthusiastic
    kingdom proclaimers who now have a proper understanding of
    what God’s Kingdom actually is and also they view themselves as faith sons of his and though they do not profess to be of the 144,000 collective are showing this by partaking of the emblems on memorial night.

    I do believe that if you do not change your way, these ones are now poised to take over the reins of your Kingdom (the world wide brotherhood of Jehovah’s Witnesses).

    Many are starting to wake up to your manipulations and desire for more power and control.

    If it is God’s will they will and you will not have any say in the matter. For who indeed can fight against God’s Spirit?

    I really do believe that the brotherhood of all mankind is near as the Kingdom of God increasingly becomes a reality.

  • June 29, 2013 at 1:30 am
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    I really appreciated these references to the June 22, 2000 Awake!, Oubliette. Thank you.

  • June 29, 2013 at 1:38 am
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    One thing that particularly jumped out at me from this “Human Apostates” talk was the blatant contradiction between the first two of the three identifying marks of apostates. Firstly, they refuse to do the preaching work that Christ commissioned, and yet, secondly, they seek to draw disciples after themselves – how can they accomplish this without involving some sort of “preaching” work?

  • June 29, 2013 at 4:45 am
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    Rory, Contradiction seems to be now JWs’ heriatage . look this for example:
    *** w08 3/15 p. 30 par. 5 Highlights From the Book of Luke ***
    Did Mary’s egg cell, or ovum, have any part in her pregnancy? For Mary’s child to be a true descendant of her ancestors Abraham, Judah, and David, as God had promised, her ovum had to contribute toward her pregnancy. (Gen. 22:15, 18; 49:10; 2 Sam. 7:8, 16)

    They are saying that “Mary’s egg cell” CONTRIBUTED TO HER PREGNANCY!

    Compare that with

    *** bh chap. 4 p. 42 par. 14 Who Is Jesus Christ? ***
    ‘How was it possible for a spirit creature to be born as a human?’ To accomplish this, Jehovah performed a miracle. He transferred the life of his firstborn Son from heaven to the womb of a Jewish virgin named Mary. No human father was involved. Mary thus gave birth to a perfect son and named him Jesus.—Luke 1:30-35.

    Don’t you find contadictions here, “Mary’s egg cell” contributing to CONSUMPTION means she was IMPREGNATED TO CONCEIVE JESUS what differs from “TRANSFERRING JESUS to the womb of Mary!

  • June 29, 2013 at 10:42 pm
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    The Company You Keep [part 2 of 2]

    Continuing…

    Charles Russell continued to do business with these disparate off-shoots of Adventism and Christadelphians when he purchased the Emphatic Diaglott translation. This translation was created by Benjamin Wilson a founder of a small church denomination with influences from Christadelphian beliefs. The Emphatic Diaglott lapsed into public domain sometime in, or before, the 1950’s and the Watchtower publishing its own New World Translation in a series of released volumes.

    In the 1970’s, the Watchtower–now in the administration of Knorr–published a translation called Byington’s “The Bible in Living English”. To the rank and file, this appeared to be the Watchtower fulfilling its mission of being a “Bible” publishing house. Stephen T. Byington was another of the turn of the century “free-thinkers” who would later convert to individualist anarchism via his association with Benjamin Tucker (a promoter of Friedrich Nietzsche’s ideals of individualism and anarchism). Byington was for many years among a few scholarly endorsers of the New World Translation from the Watchtower; after his death, the Watchtower acquired publishing rights to Byington’s translation. (The quid pro quo for the latest endorsements from a professor in Israel haven’t been discovered, yet.)

    Coincidentally, Henry Grew (an abolitionist), an influencer of George Storrs and also Russell, was also a comrade of George Bradburn for whom Lysander Spooner (another individual anarchist and abolitionist) delivered a eulogy at his funeral. George Bradburn and Henry Grew took up international opposition to slavery [a noble effort], but from these endeavors sprang forth the inspiration for individual anarchism and opposition to any organized endeavors that would enslave or ensnare individual thinking. All of these influential and admired individuals would have been opposed to following any of the options offered such as papacy, hierarchies of ministers and bishops or a centralized body of authority, and especially to any “organized” religion designed to ensnare or enslave minds. Of note, Charles Russell, and even Rutherford’s administration of the Watchtower, used protests in front of mainstream churches with placards reading “Organized Religion is a Snare and a Racket” in behavior very similar to the disruptive methods found in anarchist movements of the era.

    Another amazing coincidence for those who note world history, one of the critical events leading to World War I was the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria by a member of the movement called “Young Bosnia” which drew inspiration from various ideologies and philosophies including German romanticists, anarchists, and Nietzsche. So, in a bizarre way we could have anarchists highlighting one of their “sibling” group’s achievements as a proof of their own divinely inspired prowess.

    What if–? What if a group inspired by anarchists had as its goal subverting organized religions using the thin veil of being a religious group of sincere truth-seekers? What if their ultimate objective was to obliterate individual’s faith and anything spiritual by generating a facade of trustworthy doctrines while planting a negative association onto traditional, organized religions, then systematically undermining the trusted doctrines and body of authority by a series of convoluted, inexplicable changes to interpretations of sacred text and disappointing predictions–leading individuals to distrust any authorities and become individualistic in seeking spirituality?

    While the current incarnation of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a docile group, as noted in Part I comments, splinters and even a main group can mutate in the future with the rise of a charismatic leader (or leaders). Who’s to refute that a future Watchtower will not endorse “Theocratic activism (warfare)” on par with isolationism and defiance of civil authority? Or, “sleeper cells” of inactive, yet believing, Jehovah’s Witness individuals coalesce to create havoc? The initial Branch Davidians probably had no intent of facing off against the full power of the United States ATF forces, but it happened.

    [end part 2 of 2]

  • July 1, 2013 at 7:25 am
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    I am sorry if I offended anyone with my post. Reading my paragraph again, I realize that I should have added a “in my opinion” and maybe a “as far as I am concerned”. So, if I came across as arrogant and assuming, I apologize.

    May I ask if the people here who are critical of/skeptical towards Jehovah’s Witnesses have lost all interest in religion or if they have found another denomination they are more comfortable with?

    Thanks for bearing with me.

  • July 1, 2013 at 8:52 am
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    Dombey,
    I have great interest in the bible. It has helped me to create my moral code. I wasn’t interested in joining any organizations of any kind before (because imo they ALL become corrupt). I was vulnerable when I studied with JWs. The GB is just recycling other’s ‘truths’, which is fine, but don’t try to convince me that I owe you something for bringing me truths! Which is what JWs did to me. Jesus said,”You received free; give free!”

  • July 2, 2013 at 12:25 am
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    You are certainly entitle to your opinion as we all are.

    It is just a pity that the hierarchy of Jehovah’s Witnesses do not think that their members are entitled to voice their opinions.

    In answer to your question whether we have a creed, well I can only answer for myself of course, so here goes.

    My creed is this : I believe in the Heavenly Father, that he is the source of all life and all things.
    I believe that one of his sons Jesus, is a Creator son who is sovereign of our universe that his Father has granted him to create life in it on the habitable planets and to administer it thereafter through capable administrators that he Jesus (Michael) has appointed himself. One of these capable administrators is the one we called Satan who was a major part of the rebellion against him as well as God the Father.

    Anyway I look to Jesus for salvation, as the living “bread of life” who taught us how to approach the Father his Father and how we should treat each other as brothers and sisters here on planet earth, for we are all children of God as we all have God’s life force and spirit within each one of us.

    Not that we are all approved faith sons of his, but never the less we are all children of God and so we should all treat each others as brothers and sisters.

    Now Jesus main message was the “Kingdom of God” or the “Kingdom of the Heavens”
    And the Kingdom of God, represents in a nutshell “The Fatherhood of God and the brotherhood of all intelligent life who are approved children of his throughout God’s grand universe.

    That means that in the “Kingdom of God” the “Angels” who are approved by God are our brothers and they are also sons of God the Father.

    The other material beings like us on other habitable planets who are approved by God are also our brothers and sons of God.

    The “Kingdom of God” here on earth would be all mankind who are approved sons and daughters of God and who are faith sons of God as a brotherhood in a limited sense at the moment. These ones all would recognize the true God as there Heavenly Father and have similar faiths incorporating Jesus as the “Word” of God and as their savior.

    It is important to differentiate the difference between the children of God and the approved faith sons and daughters of God.

    For instance a Father may have six children but only three might be children whom he approves of because they are heeding his counsel and obeying the rules of the household. The other three errant children who are not obeying the household rules, but the Father is counseling them on this and waiting expectantly for them to come to their senses just like the father in Jesus parable of the “prodigal son”.

  • July 2, 2013 at 4:30 pm
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    Regarding the talk /scripture at DC, can someone please explain to me what the TRUE meaning of that scripture is , Jesus came to bring not peace but a sword? I feel it was all jiggered up by the WBTS

    • July 3, 2013 at 4:05 am
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      Shannon, I think that I can answer that question for you.
      Here is the scripture for reference

      Matthew 10
      34 Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.
      35 I came to divide a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a bride against her mother-in-law.
      36 “Ones hostile to the man shall be those of his own house.” [LITV]

      But first look at these scriptures that I have posted down below.

      Luke 2
      10 And the angel said to them, Do not fear. For, behold, I proclaim good news to you, a great joy, which will be to all people,
      11 because today a Savior, who is Christ the Lord, was born to you in the city of David.
      12 And this is a sign to you: You will find a babe having been wrapped, lying in the manger.
      13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God and saying,
      14 Glory to God in the highest, and peace on earth, good will among men.

      Isaiah 9
      6 For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

      Jesus is referred to in both these scriptures as the prince of peace.

      Do you think that he came to divide households?

      Hardly!

      I believe that what Jesus meant if you look at the context of the scripture that it is the other persons other than the follower of Jesus that would cause the division by being in opposition and even persecuting their family member who is doing their best to follow Jesus.

      A true follower of Jesus would do their best to keep the peace and try and keep the family united all the while not compromising their own faith and integrity.

      And then there is the matter of how these scriptures have been translated by some Bible translators with religious zeal, to actually support divisions and create animosity to those who do not share there faith.

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