By now I’ve written a number of articles about Watchtower, but it’s been a while since I’ve written anything addressing the organization directly.
A recent development, however, has moved me to write my former religious leaders a sincere open letter of gratitude, as follows…
Dear Watchtower,
As you may know, I am a passionate advocate against the damage you are inflicting on countless current and former Witnesses with your profoundly harmful policies on child abuse, shunning, higher education, domestic violence and blood transfusions.
I certainly don’t expect you to help me with my work of raising awareness of your dangerous, cult-like attributes – so whenever you do assist me in this respect I feel duty-bound to express my gratitude.
As you know, you recently lodged a copyright takedown request with YouTube for one of my “Getting To Know” videos featuring Tony Morris’ first rant about tight pants during his branch visit in Rome.
Oh, you know! The one where he scolded his audience saying “you chuckle, I don’t think it’s funny, I think it’s DISGUSTING!”
The video against which you so vehemently protested was a shortened version of the video below, minus the hilarious skit at the end with Will Ferrell and Jimmy Fallon…
It goes without saying that by issuing a copyright takedown request for this video, you are both (1) claiming ownership of its outrageous content (I assume on Tony’s behalf), and (2) showing the world that, like any good cult, you will move mountains to censor any information that makes you look bad – even if it originates from you.
I honestly couldn’t be more profoundly appreciative, and hence I will not be challenging your copyright claim – even though my video quite clearly falls under the “fair use” laws.
Besides, I set up the separate “JW Survey” channel precisely to shelter my John Cedars channel from this sort of petty, retaliatory action from you (which I have already experienced two years ago for uploading a song about Sparlock).
So, despite getting a strike against my back-up YouTube account, I can honestly say there is no real harm done.
On the contrary, you have done me a huge favor by showing the world how litigious, surreptitious, banal, cowardly, and ashamed of your own paranoid rantings you are despite being “God’s one true organization.” Readers of this website who would be otherwise ready to leap to your defense will have a hard time imagining Jesus filing a copyright complaint against someone for repeating his own words.
Far from it, Jesus (who you claim to be head of your organization), was apparently only too happy to take responsibility for his own words and own up to them because, as he put it, “I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.” (John 12:49, New World Translation)
If you were truly “God’s organization” issuing life-saving proclamations through the holy spirit’s guidance and direction, you would be delighted that I am assisting you by spreading the words of one of the few members of your revered “faithful slave,” no matter how controversial these words might be.
Instead, your clearly-demonstrated desperation to conceal your own words (because you know full well they expose how backwards and deluded one of your leaders is) speaks volumes.
You are doing my work for me, and I can’t thank you enough!
I would also like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude that you have not sacked or disfellowshipped Tony Morris, as I once feared you might.
If the Governing Body had done this, it would have sent a clear message to all Witnesses globally that it takes its responsibility to be “faithful and discreet” very seriously, and will not tolerate one of its members laying down arbitrary rules without basing anything on the scriptures – behavior it is happy to denounce as “Pharisaical” when observed in other religions.
The fact that you have kept Tony Morris in his position despite his embarrassingly inappropriate rant against clothing (at such a prestigious event as a branch visit in front of more than 1 million Witnesses) again shows thinking Witnesses the true nature of your organization.
Your leaders are deluded and arrogant, drunk with their own power, and you are powerless to prevent them from “making an ass” of themselves (to quote Rutherford) – especially as their lust for prominence seems boundless. All you can do is mop up the damage afterwards and try to keep things hushed up.
And don’t think the fact Tony’s talk didn’t make the cut on JW Broadcasting’s “Programs and Events” page hasn’t gone unnoticed either.
So, thank you Watchtower. I really mean it!
Without your bumbling incompetence you would be a worthy adversary. Instead you’re proving something of a pushover. Every time you shoot yourself in the foot like this, you make my activism work far more easy and enjoyable.
Your grateful opponent,
I welcome the Watchtower being exposed.
The principle of the prophets is correct, “get in that city and wake them up”. It was always connected with God’s house.
Scripturally or secularly or both it’s over. Good.
I live in a rural country area in the U.S. where our territory includes a lot of farms and I loved an illustration that jwfairytale had in one of his latest rants. He was ranting about the Governing Body and their pinky rings.
He was saying to picture Gerrit Losch being out in service in farm country and pulling up (in one of those nice cars that the rank and file provide for them free of charge) to a house at a farm and he gets out in his fancy expensive suit and the farm lady comes to the door and he starts talking and then pulls out his Bible and starts showing her scriptures from his Bible and there is his pinky finger bedazzled with a PINKY RING!!!! Can you imagine this woman’s expression on her face when she sees this man turning pages in the Bible and he’s wearing a PINKY RING!!!!
I don’t know what it’s like anywhere else in the world, but here in farm country, that picture is a whole lot worse than some young man coming to the door and his pants are tight.
I live in a rural area in the U.S. where a lot of our territory includes farms. I loved the illustration that jwfairtale gave in one of his latest rants.
He was saying to picture Gerrit Losch being out in service and pulling up to a farm house in his fancy car that the rank and file proves free of charge and he gets out of the car wearing his fancy suit and he goes up to the door and knocks on the door. A farm lady comes to the door and Gerrit pulls out his Bible and starts showing her scriptures from his bible and his little finger is bedazzled with a PINKY RING!!!! Picture the expression on the lady’s face when she sees this old man, wearing a PINKY RING!!!
I don’t know about what it’s like any where else in the world, but in this part of the country, that would go over a whole lot worse than some young man coming to the door and his pants are tight.
Absolutely LOVED your video about Anthony, had quite a good laugh over it, and your letter is just Awesome!! Reminds me of the late night comedian, Jay Leno (here in the states) making fun of the president (Clinton I believe) when he rode his bicycle into a TREE and he THANKED him for making his job of being a comedian SO MUCH EASIER!! LOL! Much like the governing body is doing NOW, the more appearances they make, the more they SPEAK, the more they make utter fools of themselves!! Really it is difficult to see how anyone can take these old fools seriously anymore, I mean seriously?? Loved the letter, keep up the good work!!
No tight pants for the brothers, no slacks for the sisters.
Become a J,W, and you need never make another decision,
others will make them for you. This is the truth about brain-
washing, the purpose of it, to hand over control of your life.
As regards the offending “Keks”(Liverpool slang for pants)
one wonders who Tony’s remarks are aimed at. They seem
wasted on this particular audience, I’m willing to bet, there
wasn’t one man there, swanning around, in the forbidden
item, flaunting his manly attributes, (Sorry Tony, but we all
get disappointed sometimes.)
It’s preaching to the converted, or has there been a sudden
outbreak of tight pants among J,Ws.
Maybe Tony’s disturbed by his own secret thoughts, he’s
afraid of offending JHVH and losing that throne he believes
Is reserved for him. ( this kind of fear i sometimes felt myself
as a JW, though nothing to do with the Keks ) it’s all part
of the control.
So this rant about a homosexual conspiracy, is an attempt to
purge. his conscience. But it’s gone into overkill, and has
become comical, even hilarious, an embarrassment,
Hence the takedown from You Tube.
Really! They filed a copyright infringement claim about that?
They are petty.
I understand that “Tight Pants” Tony does own the rights to his own words, but–as you pointed out so well–they should be grateful you’re helping to “spread the word!”
Let’s review: It’s a cult!
Let it go you apostates, could not make it in Jehovah christian organization .you could not be humble and follow directions from the slave, move on
@Cowboy, are you serious? Are you a JW? Why are you here, on an apostate website????? You are the one who is not following directions….
“Parable” of the faithful slave. No dictionary I have ever
read, indicates a parable is intended as a prophecy
concerning a future “Reality”
Only the wt assigns realism to it, for obvious reasons.
Look up the definition, you’ll find its described as a
“Fictitious” story, to illustrate a moral or spiritual
principle.
I believe humility is owed to the Creator, but not to an
Org, based on a fictitious foundation.
Being humble is one thing, being blind to these old mens ways are another. You can be humble and still use your common sense. Hopefully, you will wake up one day.
@Cowboy .What a stupid comment go and do what most cowboys do & kill a few innocent Red Indians & what did Cowboys do to North America SUBJUGATED NATIVE PEOPLE & TRAPPED THEM IN RESERVATIONS or should I SAY CONGREGATIONS!!!!A BIT LIKE THE GOVERNING BODY!!
@Cowboy, you should go back and reread the July 2013 Watchtower. The “slave” hasn’t even been appointed yet. All the Governing Body are, are bosses over a publishing company and you are “selling” their product for free and they are raking in millions every day over your free labor. Wake up and smell the coffee.
cowboy,
What? Like the “direction from the slave” not to warn parents of a child abuser In their midst?
Or how about the “direction”not to inform the police if a charge of child sexual abuse is levelled? Should I have stayed and obeyed that direction, cowboy? Should I have put the safety of children at risk by following “the direction from the slave” that I was to do nothing if a second witness wasn’t available? Please!
Really, sir, you need to do your own independent research into your faith. It is not as you think it to be, sir.
I will not follow the direction from a slave that has demonstrated such poor judgement, and exhibited such unCHRISTIAN tendencies, sir, I simply will not.
Please, cowboy, if you Love Jesus, and even if you don’t, do your own independent research into your religion. We need you to join us and help us to protect innocent children from paedophiles, to help domestic abuse victims receive the correct advice and support, to end the unscriptural shunning and to end the ridiculous blood rules. Do your research and come and help us.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
@Cowboy. HUMILITY Mr Cowboy is always obeying Jehovah’s Spirit Directed???? Earthly Organisation which means NEVER associate with NAUGHTY APOSTATES!! You,Cowboy! are Lacking Humility by Ignoring the Advice of your own Governing Body by coming on this Website!!!
Hello Cowboy, and aren’t you just.
I strongly believe that God [YHWH] exists and has created me. The free natural oxygen I am breathing, my heart pumping blood 24/7, my brain, the mystery of life etc. make me feel there is certainly a Grand Creator. In return, I owe Him respect and adoration. Micah 6: 8 says that God only requires that I walk in modesty with Him.
I respectfully have ten simple questions for you:
1- Suppose, after watching your talks on YouTube and reading your jwsurvey blog, a witness decides to leave JW organization but want to continue worshiping God sincerely and want to live the life of a true Christian according the Bible principles, what should that person do?
2- According to James 1:27, there is on planet Earth a true and pure Religion. Among all those religions in the World, which one do you think is the true Religion?
3- In Hebrew 10: 25, Apostle Paul encourages true Christians to “not forsaking our meeting/assembling together”. Where should an ex-JW go if he/she wants to follow Paul advice?
4- When you examine Jesus life, his ministry and the early Christians, which religion worship in our time is closer to first century Christianity?
5- If you don’t want any association with the Witnesses, why are you still interested in knowing the latest about their speeches, assemblies, annual meeting, their website, their movement etc.?
6- How do you think God himself view your spiritual life right now and your campaign against the JW Organization?
7- Are you campaigning against a Religion or against God himself?
8- Bad people exist everywhere in any institution. Satan and Judas are clear examples of Bad People even inside of God and Jesus communities. If a member of the JW’s commit a serious sin like child molestation, why accusing the entire Organization whereas JW Organization is probably the only Christian Religion that does not tolerate wrongdoing when proven especially sexual misconduct?
9- Do you think you would ever understand the Bible like you do right now if you were never a JW?
10- I Peter 5:9, the Bible talks about “the entire association of our brothers in the World”. Who are those brothers?
Respectfully,
Bible Student
Hello Bible Student
These are all questions you could put to me in an email rather than “respectfully” make them as an off-topic comment, but here goes…
1- Suppose, after watching your talks on YouTube and reading your jwsurvey blog, a witness decides to leave JW organization but want to continue worshiping God sincerely and want to live the life of a true Christian according the Bible principles, what should that person do?
– They can do whatever they want to do.
2- According to James 1:27, there is on planet Earth a true and pure Religion. Among all those religions in the World, which one do you think is the true Religion?
– In my opinion there is no true religion. They are all equally untrue and equally based on spurious texts or backwards traditions. Thankfully not all religions are equal in the amount of harm they cause, but when faced with the ultimate question “Is it true or isn’t it? Please present evidence” all religions draw blanks, making unsupportable truth claims.
3- In Hebrew 10: 25, Apostle Paul encourages true Christians to “not forsaking our meeting/assembling together”. Where should an ex-JW go if he/she wants to follow Paul advice?
– It makes no difference as to where they go, so long as it is somewhere less harmful and dishonest than where they came from. There certainly is no value in congregating with a harmful cult just for the sake of congregating. My question to you is, can you prove that the person who wrote those words was in fact the Apostle Paul? Have you read ANY of the textual criticism and scrutiny of the books of the New Testament?
4- When you examine Jesus life, his ministry and the early Christians, which religion worship in our time is closer to first century Christianity?
– I’m glad there are no religions who follow Jesus’ words to the absolute letter. Otherwise you would have a group of impoverished people incapable of planning ahead or making provisions for themselves or their families’ future prosperity (Matt 6:34). Christianity is obsessed with focusing on the idea that all humans are inherently flawed, created ill and then commanded to get better, and driven by the idea that only through a human sacrifice can God satisfy his own rules of universal justice. It views life as temporary, expendable, and therefore life in this world is not to be enjoyed, cherished, or used to the full. My personal, innate conscience would not allow 9 million children to die every year before they reach the age of five if it were in my power to prevent it. If you are asking me to admire a supreme being who does the opposite on a yearly basis, I’m afraid I can’t help you.
5- If you don’t want any association with the Witnesses, why are you still interested in knowing the latest about their speeches, assemblies, annual meeting, their website, their movement etc.?
– Because I’m keenly interested in helping people out of their indoctrination, and I can’t do this unless I follow what’s going on. I’m especially interested in sparing young kids from being indoctrinated into a gruesome apocalyptic doomsday cult where all their energy and potential will be parasitically siphoned by a group of selfish old men in New York (who care nothing about protecting them from sexual predators) using abhorrent propaganda cartoons.
6- How do you think God himself view your spiritual life right now and your campaign against the JW Organization?
– If there is a creator of the universe, I am personally convinced he, she or it has no interest in what happens on our planet – much less in my “spiritual life” and views about an American doomsday cult.
7- Are you campaigning against a Religion or against God himself?
– I’m campaigning against a harmful cult. I can’t campaign against God any more than I can campaign against unicorns or flying monkeys, because I don’t believe he exists. If he, she or it does exist, it is not in the form of an indifferent divine being who lets children suffer and die and is more interested in what people do with their genitalia than with eliminating suffering and evil.
8- Bad people exist everywhere in any institution. Satan and Judas are clear examples of Bad People even inside of God and Jesus communities. If a member of the JW’s commit a serious sin like child molestation, why accusing the entire Organization whereas JW Organization is probably the only Christian Religion that does not tolerate wrongdoing when proven especially sexual misconduct?
– You clearly don’t know anything about the problem of child abuse in Jehovah’s Witnesses. Please do research on it. It is not simply a question of bad people in a religion. It is a question of a religion that purposefully and consciously allows the worst kind of bad people (pedophiles) to flourish because of outrageously neglectful policies that allow them to go about their disgusting business with little or no intervention. Please research the “two witness rule.”
9- Do you think you would ever understand the Bible like you do right now if you were never a JW?
– It’s impossible to say. The short answer is that there are many individuals (theology professors, bible scholars) who understand the bible better than JWs, so anything is possible. There is one thing I am certain of – the more I read the bible, including its most gruesome, outlandish passages, the more I am convinced it is not a book that has any moral authority over me.
10- I Peter 5:9, the Bible talks about “the entire association of our brothers in the World”. Who are those brothers?
– I assume they WERE Christians at that time. Why do you think they MUST also be people living today in the 21st century? What is your evidence for such an assertion?
Finally, here is my “Cedars Challenge” in case you feel brave enough to have a go at answering it…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ2lMsmjQY0
Great answer, Cedars!
Many JWs are quite prepared to overlook and ignore any problems with their organization and dismiss them as merely the results of human imperfection and maybe a few bad eggs among the members. The notion of systemic problems is literally unthinkable, since that would call into question the revered idea of this being “God’s visible organization”.
A bunch of JWs Elders and Overseers including a DO took me to the police for exposing them and end up weaker than before… These people are today’s pharisians…
Fantastic answers Cedars!
If any bible students truly ponder those answers and take the time to do their research on the JW org, I don’t see how anyone could continue to believe that Witnesses have the one true religion.
Tipper
@Bible Student. I love the illustration that Cedars has given for the question that implies that if you are helped out of a false religion, then the person who has helped you escape that false religion is then obligated to find him a better religion.
His illustration goes something like this: If he is going past your house at night and it’s on fire and most likely, you are still in the house fast asleep and he knocks on your door and wakes you up so you and your family can get out of the house before it burns up, is he then obligated to provide you with a new house???? Does that make any sense to you at all????
Before I read your answers to my humble questions, I thought you were at least an intellectual and someone who had some respect for the Almighty God. I am not an active JW. Re-read your answers to my questions and you will see how disrespectful you are to God and his servants.
Hi John, I’m not sure what difference would make if the Bible Student would ask you his question via email.I want to believe you would answer them exactly same way as you done it publicly keeping in mind that you giving “voice to the silent majority”.By the way I’m not sure as well if you have a time and need to respond or to check to all your private communication.For example I did sent you my audio response few days ago via Y tube also via your web and I never get confirmation you got or read it or….Not that you have do it ofcourse it’s your right and choice but many people maybe done so and never heard from you back therefore maybe they feel they have to ask you publicly.There is always a chance the email message may be lost on its way or whatever happen.So even short form of confirmation like “thanks for option would be nice .Maybe you are so busy that you have no time for that or maybe you can say and apply the same rule the the JW.ORG when you mail them your stuff and they never said thanks we received it. If they do so shame to them!
Just to let you know.
all the best,
Now Im confused how this forum works John because the message I was intending to sent you as private replay to you displayed here as my public post and the last post I sent to Bible Student is nowhere and I thought it will be display as private post.Anyhow tech.glitch maybe.Sorry for that John and to the Bible Student as well.
Hi I was trying to sent you my personal replay about John’s agnostic stand but looks like it was lost did you get something from me ? Let me know if you don’t mind thanks ! love & peace
Bible student
Your questions to this web site are well answered by Cedars. But I’ve questions to you.
What happened to the ‘millions now living will never die’?
What happened to the ‘this generation will by no means pass away’?
While these doctrines were current the flock weren’t alowed to disagree because they were threatened with disfellowshiping.
But now can you not see that the watchtower is a flawed organization?
I am not an active JW. I can’t speak for them. Cedars does not believe in God and simply hates JW’s. I am a Bible Student who are looking for the truth. For those who still believe in God, please read the Bible. I can not discuss with People who do not have respect for God. I better spend time watching JW broadcasting Stephen Lett melodramatic gestures than watching Cedars neglected raggedy face on Youtube. If he was a good student at JW theocratic ministry school, he would know how to appear in front of a camera.
bible student – Thanks for showing your “Christlike personality” by responding to my sincere answers with ad hominem. What a great advert for your religion you are! ;)
Bible Student
I was a witness for many years and have seen this religion evolve and change over the years, and it appears to me that there is now a greater emphasis on rules and enforcing the ever changing rules than ever before. With regards to point number 4 about which religion today resembles true Christianity – I would answer that in my opinion the witnesses today resemble the Pharisees. Jesus rejected the Pharisees.
Bible Student
I forgot to add that I believe in God and Jesus, I read the Bible and I love the Bible and I look for truth. I just did not find it in the witness religion and that is why I left.
@Bible Student. YOU ANSWER ALL YOUR QUESTIONS with the SCRIPTURE you QUOTE at JAMES 1v.27. Which Reads in The GOOD NEWS BIBLE ‘Whst God the Father considers to be pure and Genuine Religion is this: to take care of orphans and widows in their suffering and to keep oneself without spot from the world.’ Pure & simple.In the First Century everyone was called Christian ACTS 11v26 .There was no Faithful & Discreet Slave in the First Century as the 2013 Watchtower said only came in 1919.Paul left Jerusalem for 14 Years .(GALATIANS 1v.17 to Galatians 2v.1) No central Governing Body in the First Century,even Fred Franz argued this point to Gilead Missionaries in 1970s. There was no Governing Body until 1944 .It is a Legal Term!There are no GREEK Words for Governing Body in the Bible.The Name Jehovah Witnesses only was invented by Rutherford in 1931! From 33 C.E. To 1931 Christians were called CHRISTIANS.The only true Religion of the Bible is Christianity !Remember as Rutherford said RELIGION is a SNARE and a RACKET.I would say ORGANISED RELIGION is SNARE and a RACKET!!
@Bible Student.
First, you have courage to click on jwsurvey. Most Witnesses are so scared of looking at the other side, that they will forever remain in the dark but at least you have the courage to look at the other side of the argument.
If you are new to jwsurvey, you might get the impression that Cedars doesn’t like Jehovah’s Witnesses, but you couldn’t be further from the truth. He, like all the rest of us, have spent many years being in the “truth” and found out that the Society has been lying to us and it is devastating after you have spent the only life that you will be given, to have found out, that it was wasted, promoting a religion that doesn’t have a solid foundation in the Bible at all, but only made up man-made doctrines that go back to the 1930’s with Joseph Rutherford and the purpose of Cedar’s website and all the other ex-JW websites is to warn, not to belittle anybody.
If you have some time, get a copy of Stephen Hassan’s book, “Combatting Cult Mind Control” and read it with an open mind. Mr. Hassan doesn’t mention Jehovah’s Witnesses, but he was in a cult and that is now his life’s goal, to help people realize when they or a loved one or friend have joined up with a cult and how to get out of it. You will see that when you read that book, that Jehovah’s Witnesses fit every single description of what a cult is.
Our main problem with Jehovah’s Witness religion is not only the doctrines, but the claim that it is the only “true” religion and that God is using the Watchtower organization to be His spokesman to man on earth today. That is a pretty amazing claim and they should be able to back up that claim with evidence, don’t you think? All of us were convinced that the Watchtower was God’s spokesman before ever asking for evidence and accepted the “truth” as such and never asked for evidence before we got baptized into the religion and found ourselves trapped in it, with no way out, once we realized all the lies coming from Bethel, that we were forced to uphold, even if it went against our Bible-trained consciences.
When a person first accepts a “Bible” study with Jehovah’s Witnesses, it doesn’t take long for the teacher to show us scripture after scripture, making it look like they are the only ones who can explain the Bible and so we fell for it, thinking that yes, God is the one backing this religion. If we had been more knowledgeable about the Bible then, we would have been able to show the Witnesses some scriptures and the Witnesses would have run the other way. Witnesses are trained in doctrine. That’s all. They can run circles around anybody who doesn’t know much about the Bible and so they give off the impression that they are experts on the Bible and that convinces a lot of people that they really are the only ones who have the real “truth”.
You made a comment about Cedar’s, the way he looks. I want to give you an illustration to show you how inconsequential that argument is, as to identifying what is truth or lies.
You go into a large department store. The lights are bright. All the people in that store are dressed to the nines and they all seem very friendly. They seem very knowledgeable about the products they are selling. You see tons of people milling around the store, buying the products. You decide to buy a product from the store but you don’t know anything about the product you are buying. Do you pull out your little smart phone and go to Amazon to look at the reviews or do you buy the product because of how nice those sales people look and how friendly they are and how much they just love the product you are buying? What if you decide that you want to check the reviews of that product, but the salesman gets angry and tells you that in no uncertain terms, you are not to look at the reviews because all the people giving bad reviews are liars??? What if you look at the reviews of the store and all the reviews are 5 stars??? No bad reviews but the bad reviews have been deleted? Would you buy that product because of how nice looking those people were or how smartly they talked to you? Would the fact that they didn’t want you to look at the bad reviews, tell you that you need to be cautious about that store? The old saying goes, looks can be deceiving.
As far as how Cedar’s looks? I for one, think he’s really nice looking but then I don’t judge anybody on how they look. I judge people on their integrity. Would you dislike somebody because they were a little overweight or were old? That is not the way a person should judge the religion that you maybe devoting yourself to.
You need to do some research into the JW religion. Once you get baptized, you are in it for life. The people running it, can change their minds at any moment about any teaching and you will be expected to go along with it or else. The or else, is you will be kicked out and lose every so-called friend that you “thought” you had. For that to happen to you, can make you so depressed that you could want to end your life. That is the position that many young people are finding themselves in at this very moment.
Please for your sake, do your research before becoming anymore involved in the JW religion.
@Bible student, it is a little presumptuous of you to claim that Cedars hates JWs when you obviously know nothing of his background – but you can read about it on this site and educate yourself a bit, he’s been very transparent about his life and history – unlike the watchtower bible and tract society. Cedars doesnt hate jws, he feels for them and wants them to find the answers for themselves that help them be free from the high control CULT they are trapped inside. He wants the children inside this ‘religion’ to be safe from sexual predators within the congregations. For you to say you are inactive means nothing – you can be physically inactive and yet still heavily indoctrinated in the jw religion. I know this because after many yrs of inactivity my own father went back to the meetings and is as strong in his convictions as he ever was. I however have done my research and found out that the jw organisation is like whitewashed graves but full of old mens’ bones. You should take the cedars challenge, and try to answer it in a gracious and intelligent manner. When someone is faced with a losing argument it is a common fallback to start attacking the person making the argument when what you should do is address the questions involved. You attempt to discredit the person making the argument because your return argument is weak. I wish you all the best and hope that you find the truth about the truth (check out JWfacts – uses all watchtower publications if that makes you feel better). And when you do you will find there is a great support network here and on its sister sites (jw recovery particularly)to help you.
John: I think you are being punked! Bible Student must be someone you know pulling your leg, especially w/ that “ragged face” comment.
Anonymous: I always look forward to your comments.
Bible St, you’ve had specific answers to your questions, but
instead of refuting those answers with sound scholarly
reasoning, you resort to name calling , and other derogatory
statements.. Tactics employed as a last resort when unable
to address the issues. Prov, 11/9.
You do not recommend your God to me, by your manner,
nor do I think a genuine christian person would be impressed
by it.
@Anonymous,Fluffy(Great Name),Shanti & Ted you all very valid,well thought out,Kind & Insightful Comments.Your Knowledge of ‘the Truth ??’ Shows we were all FOOLED once but Have had NEW LIGHT!!! Reminds me of an Old ‘WHO ‘Song …
‘ WE WON’T GET FOOLED AGAIN ‘
@Bible student!!! NEVER JUDGE A BOOK by its COVER!! Now Jesus had a BEARD!! Apostle Paul had a BEARD!!All the Apostles had BEARDs. Cedars has a BEARD! None of the Governing Body!! So Who can we TRUST!! This is the SILLY LINE of your reasoning!! The Apostle Paul Travelled in the Most SMELLIEST of form of transport SHIPS in very HOT HUMID climate with no Anti Perspirant.He Stayed at Inns on his Travels which were the most unhygienic & RAT infested of places.He must have look disheveled & SMELT to HIGH HEAVEN. Now who will you trust John Cedars or THE IMMACULATE TV PRESENTERS of the GOVERNING BODY.Not that I think Cedars Smells!!But I think I know whose integrity I would trust the most!!
Have troubles to post & replay here hope I was not censored yet :-) it would be to early …sorry guys
@antonymous & fluffy & bible student & cedars
personal appearance it important to certain degree ,in corporate,entertainment or political circuits is overemphasized sometimes.In some instances dress code is mandatory,however this is not biblical view and we know from bible that God’s view is different,it’s not superficial ,somebody look may be deceiving so messenger appearance should not devalue the content of the message.
To presume that all JW were lacking knowledge or they didn’t research JW religion or ORG.history before they joined is not correct.There are many JW who did that.Some of them are highly educated in philosophical,technical, scientific fields…etc..
It was matter of their choice and this should be respected.Same apply to somebody who decide to buy a product although some reviews were not positive we are not talking about numbers or % how many were positive or negative this not the point.The point is conscious personal choice base on something.
Yes there are many with high education who were indoctrinated and join some cult.However this is not so easy as it might seem on first look.The definition was is cult or not been debated for decades by “cult researchers”.On the other hand almost all other organizations in religious ,corporate ,political,military, entertainment, professional sports etc…adopt cult like behavior or features for objective reasons.
I had to split my post now I can’t post the rest looks like I’m bad guy and the system punish me :-)I have to write this try to fool the server sorry guys
sorry I had to split my comment …
So usage of this word or label should be only done with extreme caution same as to use word apostate.Indoctrination & propaganda is permanent feature of human societies and human history and it’s inescapable.The question is not if we are indoctrinated with something but whit what.
The other issue of indoctrination & propaganda is the scope & regulation.So this is space where natural opposition or constructive criticism in conjunction with analytic self reflection & humidly should be in help aside of other qualities and mechanisms.If this is ignored or suppress ,or in worst scenario eliminated tahn any person or subject will have tendency to think that they are only infallible so thus they are perfect = to God .This equation apply to me and all humans Cedars, GB of JW present or old included.
And I’m still not done I can’t finish ,I don’t see any characters limit here I feel like a fool do you have similar problems to post here its frustrating….Am I allow to paste here …sorry Cedars for this mess here