By now I’ve written a number of articles about Watchtower, but it’s been a while since I’ve written anything addressing the organization directly.
A recent development, however, has moved me to write my former religious leaders a sincere open letter of gratitude, as follows…
Dear Watchtower,
As you may know, I am a passionate advocate against the damage you are inflicting on countless current and former Witnesses with your profoundly harmful policies on child abuse, shunning, higher education, domestic violence and blood transfusions.
I certainly don’t expect you to help me with my work of raising awareness of your dangerous, cult-like attributes – so whenever you do assist me in this respect I feel duty-bound to express my gratitude.
As you know, you recently lodged a copyright takedown request with YouTube for one of my “Getting To Know” videos featuring Tony Morris’ first rant about tight pants during his branch visit in Rome.
Oh, you know! The one where he scolded his audience saying “you chuckle, I don’t think it’s funny, I think it’s DISGUSTING!”
The video against which you so vehemently protested was a shortened version of the video below, minus the hilarious skit at the end with Will Ferrell and Jimmy Fallon…
It goes without saying that by issuing a copyright takedown request for this video, you are both (1) claiming ownership of its outrageous content (I assume on Tony’s behalf), and (2) showing the world that, like any good cult, you will move mountains to censor any information that makes you look bad – even if it originates from you.
I honestly couldn’t be more profoundly appreciative, and hence I will not be challenging your copyright claim – even though my video quite clearly falls under the “fair use” laws.
Besides, I set up the separate “JW Survey” channel precisely to shelter my John Cedars channel from this sort of petty, retaliatory action from you (which I have already experienced two years ago for uploading a song about Sparlock).
So, despite getting a strike against my back-up YouTube account, I can honestly say there is no real harm done.
On the contrary, you have done me a huge favor by showing the world how litigious, surreptitious, banal, cowardly, and ashamed of your own paranoid rantings you are despite being “God’s one true organization.” Readers of this website who would be otherwise ready to leap to your defense will have a hard time imagining Jesus filing a copyright complaint against someone for repeating his own words.
Far from it, Jesus (who you claim to be head of your organization), was apparently only too happy to take responsibility for his own words and own up to them because, as he put it, “I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.” (John 12:49, New World Translation)
If you were truly “God’s organization” issuing life-saving proclamations through the holy spirit’s guidance and direction, you would be delighted that I am assisting you by spreading the words of one of the few members of your revered “faithful slave,” no matter how controversial these words might be.
Instead, your clearly-demonstrated desperation to conceal your own words (because you know full well they expose how backwards and deluded one of your leaders is) speaks volumes.
You are doing my work for me, and I can’t thank you enough!
I would also like to take this opportunity to express my gratitude that you have not sacked or disfellowshipped Tony Morris, as I once feared you might.
If the Governing Body had done this, it would have sent a clear message to all Witnesses globally that it takes its responsibility to be “faithful and discreet” very seriously, and will not tolerate one of its members laying down arbitrary rules without basing anything on the scriptures – behavior it is happy to denounce as “Pharisaical” when observed in other religions.
The fact that you have kept Tony Morris in his position despite his embarrassingly inappropriate rant against clothing (at such a prestigious event as a branch visit in front of more than 1 million Witnesses) again shows thinking Witnesses the true nature of your organization.
Your leaders are deluded and arrogant, drunk with their own power, and you are powerless to prevent them from “making an ass” of themselves (to quote Rutherford) – especially as their lust for prominence seems boundless. All you can do is mop up the damage afterwards and try to keep things hushed up.
And don’t think the fact Tony’s talk didn’t make the cut on JW Broadcasting’s “Programs and Events” page hasn’t gone unnoticed either.
So, thank you Watchtower. I really mean it!
Without your bumbling incompetence you would be a worthy adversary. Instead you’re proving something of a pushover. Every time you shoot yourself in the foot like this, you make my activism work far more easy and enjoyable.
Your grateful opponent,
3 part…
Cedars has to know the best what are his inner present feeling toward JW.The true is that his current agnostic views are not in ideal balance as well perhaps so he is not exactly 50% in the middle of agnostic scale that he has 50 units to theism or 50 to the atheism.
Based on his own words I would say he leans toward atheism. He distanced himself from JW and this should be respected.It’s natural for humans that our opinions change,evolve,fluctuate in time and space.
If he will succeed in his quest to expose JW as cult time will show .Same as the time will show if JW were right or wrong.If there is God or not.
Future hold the answers to all !
Search for the truth is not a destination it’s a journey which goes beyond or own lives.
So keep searching guys !
peace & love
@ Man from lions pit. I like your name.Did you escape like Daniel from the LIONS PIT of the WATCHTOWER. Well Educated & Scientific people change their conclusions constantly when new Evidence or discoveries come along .So when New Information about The Watchtower comes along they would normally walk away BUT TOO LATE!! Blackmailed by Family Ties & Friendship Ties & well educated & scientific people can be Proud and are Afraid to admit they are wrong Classic Example ??? The Watchtower would say ‘Evolution ‘
@Man from the lions pit, There is no way that a young child has explored the real history of the organization or the pros and cons before getting baptized. The Society wants the numbers to look good and so it’s the young children that they are the most interested in getting dunked in this CULT because they are the most vulnerable and naive.
Are you one of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I have been associated since 1964 at the age of 18 and I can tell you that I was not told about the negative side of the organization or the real history of the organization. If I had been advised of the real history, there is no way that I would have become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses and I can guarantee that the same would be true of any of the 8 million other active Jehovah’s Witnesses worldwide. We were kept in the dark about the real history and the lies.
As a matter of fact, active Jehovah’s Witnesses right now are being restricted from reading anything negative about the organization on the threat of being disfellowshipped if found out.
They are not allowed to talk to anybody who has disassociated themselves from the organization either. They are being kept in the dark.
Where in the world do you get the idea that Witnesses are fully informed of the real history of the organization either before getting baptized or afterwards and still consider themselves an active Witness?
If you are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, how long have you been one? Are you an elder? If you are an elder, do you care if somebody in your congregation starts telling the rest of the organization about the Society being part of the United Nations for 10 years before being found out? Would you allow anybody in your congregation to tell the rest of the congregation how the Society has zero proof that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 B.C.E. but that there are tens of thousands of cuneiform tablets that establish that Jerusalem was destroyed in 586/587 B.C.E. which totally destroys the theory that Jesus’ government was established in heaven in 1914? How well would that go over with you and the rest of the elders, or would you pull that person into the back room and disfellowship that person? That is a cult. I am not mincing words here. It is a cult. Read about what makes a cult.
If you are not one of Jehovah’s Witnesses, then you don’t have any idea what you are talking about.
3 part
Cedars has to know the best what are his present inner feelings toward JW.The true is that his current agnostic views are not in ideal balance as well perhaps so he is not exactly 50% in the middle of agnostic scale that he has 50 units to theism or 50 to the atheism.
Based on his own words I would say he leans toward atheism.
He distanced himself from JW and this should be respected.He did chose this for of activism and he is presenting himself as he does.No of can escape learning curve.Life is a change and change is a life.
It’s natural for humans that our opinions change,evolve,fluctuate in time and space.
Time will show if he will succeed in his quest to expose JW as a cult.Same as the time will show if JW were right or wrong.If there is God or not.
Future hold the answers.
Search for the truth is not a destination it’s a journey which goes beyond or own lives.
So keep searching guys !
peace & love
@annonymous
Yes I’m active JW whole my life 3 & 4 generation.I didn’t flatly said that ALL who became JW were thoroughly informed I wrote some were.Some did do diligence some not .Of course for young kids it’s harder before.Now with the assess to internet it’s even more easier.I was bless with father who was open minded and he taught me to always listed both sides.
I don’t argue with you if JW are cult or not I just made certain points.It’s your right to think this way and I do respect it.I’m aware of everything you wrote in your response.If you will have time and read my earlier comment in this you will maybe understand my stand better please.Are we here to help each other by factual and frank dialog? Giving voice to the silent majority is the slogan of Cedars blog so how about if I would be one of them? sound goo to you ?
love & peace
So is YouTube keeping the strike against you? I think you can sometimes have that removed and get the video back up.
@Man from the lions pit. My husband is 3rd generation JW also. He is just as determined that I am wrong and he is right and that God is directing the organization as you are.
I am saying that nobody in our organization was aware of the true history of the organization before getting baptized or else they wouldn’t have gotten baptized.
Once a person is baptized and they learn of the real history, they either just go to the Kingdom hall so they don’t lose their friends, or they fade or they dissociate themselves. Not one of us were ever told the real truth of the organization and that was by design.
At least you are brave enough to go onto jwsurvey. My husband thinks that I have gone apostate, just by commenting on this web site and he wouldn’t read any comments with a ten foot pole because he thinks it’s demonic.
I have to give you credit for coming here. That is the nice thing about this site, is that Cedars lets us all comment, whether an active JW or out. Active JW’s are encouraged to comment so we can discuss different points so that we can help one another just as you said.
I am going to describe how we got where we are at in the Organization:
We had a Bible study or our ancestors had a Bible study with a JW. We had a lot of scriptures thrown at us or our ancestors did. We didn’t know much about the Bible and were never informed about the real history of the Organization and so all we heard was the good things about the Organization and a lot of scriptures. Soon, we were convinced that God exists and he was running the Organization and all other so-called religions were false because they weren’t using Jehovah’s name and they weren’t preaching that name door to door. We went to meetings where we were exposed to “group think.” Group think makes a person feel that it must be the “truth”, or else why are there so many really smart people sitting here commenting like it’s the truth?. After a while we were convinced that God was directing the Organization and what the Watchtower was saying was coming from God. If we read the Bible and something in there didn’t make any sense to us, we were led to do “research” in their publications so we could “understand” it. It made sense then. But the problem was, we were always only getting one side of the story. We were always getting talks and articles in the Watchtower how if we did “independent” research (other than Watchtower publications), we would be playing into Satan’s hands and we would be led astray off the “ark” (Organization) and we’d lose our lives at Armageddon because we’d be playing into the hands of the “lion” (Satan). So, we stayed away from anything that might be unfavorable to the Society. I never doubted the Society in 50 years. I never in a million years thought that the Society would tell any lies to me. Once I allowed myself to examine the real history of the Organization with an open mind (Matthew chapter 24), I realized that I was not being told the truth. I did my research and found out that I was in a cult and it’s a very dangerous cult. We all are being threatened with disfellowshipping if we not only do independent research but we are being threatened with disfellowshipping if we tell anybody about our research.
To top it off, if we were to tell anybody about what we find out, we are up against the realization that everyone we talk to will think we are crazy and will shun us and hate us. Not hate anything bad that they think we have done, but hate us because they have been led to believe that we are trying to have them killed at Armageddon.
The position that it puts you in is a straight jacket. We are in a straight jacket where everyone we are surrounded by are nuts but they think we are the crazy one if we do any independent research and find out that we were crazy too. It is an impossible position to be in. If we try and “wake” up our friends, we know ahead of time that they will turn on us. That tells me it’s a cult.
Cedars doesn’t have to believe in God. The concept of God is a theory, just as much as heaven is a theory, evolution is a theory. Everyone has their opinion and beliefs but nobody has ever went to Heaven and came back to talk about it and nobody has lived long enough to prove evolution, whether everything just happened out of nothing or that God made it. Nobody has ever seen God face to face and talked about it. Nobody can prove evolution either.
Everyone has their own faith and the nice thing about this web site is that Cedars runs it and he has every right to keep it to just Watchtower. If I want to go to a religious web site, there are plenty out there that a person can go to. Just because people are convinced about a certain belief, that’s fine but they don’t need to convince me. I will come to my own conclusions.
@Man from the lions pit, what are you saying? What do you mean by “Search for the truth is not a destination it’s a journey which goes beyond or own lives.”?
You must be confused… JWs publish and disseminate their literature in agreement with the following (Ref: w12 2/15 p. 9): “… brothers and sisters would make their way down the sidewalk carrying signs that read ‘Religion Is a Snare and a Racket’…”!
No one can search the truth beyond that truth, unless he/she is idiot.
Man from the lion’s pit: You need to do more research on cults in general to understand how they work. The brainwashing is incredibly deep and long lasting. Even when you don’t believe it on one level, it is still ingrained in you on another level. Realizing how crazy it was, I left the org. and all my family in 1967. In 1974/75 I still thought I might die in Armageddon! It took me a long time to get over the brainwashing chip that was put in my head. I am still trying to heal. Having no family for your entire life is certainly not something you are prepared for. Any cult is insidious w/ long term detrimental and devastating effects. Please for anyone who thinks they are good and harmless, do more homework.
@Shanti
There is always room for improvement also for more research.However I’m not sure how you came to conclusion who of us need to do more research?I respect your right thing way you think.I just reminded participant of this discussion that was Cult is or not subject if debate and thus labeling is maybe very subjective.This is definition of the Cult by Wiki:
Cult
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
In the sociological classifications of religious movements, a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant, novel beliefs and practices.[1] However, whether any particular group’s beliefs and practices are sufficiently deviant or novel is often unclear, thus making a precise definition problematic.[2][3] In the English speaking world, the word often carries derogatory connotations.[4][5]
The word “cult” has forever been controversial. This is because it is (in a pejorative sense) considered a subjective term, used as an ad hominem attack against groups with differing doctrines or practices, which lack a clear or consistent definition.[6] It has also been used selectively by proponents of mind control theory.[7]
I’m debating if JW are cult or not. The point is if if JW have in some respect behavior or policies which are cult a like thus they are harmful.It’s time to address them! Read my previous posts in this tread please.Thanks.
peace&love
@Shanti
Important correction In my last paragraph:proper is
I’m NOT debating is JW are cult or not.
Sorry my mistake,please pardon other miss spieled words as well.
Bible Student,
I respect your beliefs, but I cannot share them.
There is no verifiable evidence for the deity you sincerely worship, is there? As that is the case, perhaps theists and atheists should agree to disagree?
I cannot believe in a deity who withholds definitive proof of themselves. St Thomas doubted the resurrection of Christ, and was provided with the evidence he sought, with no sanction or rebuke from JESUS.
When the deity you sincerely believe in provides definitive, incontrovertible proof of their existence, then, and only then, shall I consider worshipping that deity.
The bible seems to suggest that such incontrovertible evidence shall be provided in the future. (Signs in heaven etc)
Until that day comes, humility and respect from both sides is the way forward.
Your attack against Lloyd’s physical appearance is rude and baffling! John the Baptist was a holy man, and yet, according to your grooming rules, he would have been unable to baptise JESUS! Please avoid such ad hominem attacks in future. They do your goal of convincing others of your deity’s reality a dis-service.
Peace be with you,
Excelsior!
@Hakizima
“No one can search the truth beyond that truth, unless he/she is idiot.”
I try to do that whole my life so than I must one :-)
peace & love
@Man from the lions pit, I meant what I meant, you must be idiot to search the truth beyond this truth among a thousand stupid truths:
(2 Samuel 12:11, 12) . . .This is what Jehovah says: ‘Here I am bringing against you calamity from within your own house; and before your own eyes, I will take your wives and give them to another man, and he will lie down with your wives in broad daylight. 12 Although you acted in secret, I will do this in front of all Israel and in broad daylight.’”
To searching the truth from such a cruel man made god, you must be either crazy or idiot.
Man from lions pit: My answers are not very timely as I don’t watch this forum regularly. I don’t enjoy debating w/ anyone, especially someone who is not ready to be receptive. I see myself there when I was a young teenager trying to convince my science teacher that dinosaurs were a hoax because the one true religion in the world told me, haha! Mind you, no evidence, but that’s what I was suppose to believe. And there are many more people on this forum who can discuss and debate it more eloquently than I. I would prefer to leave it to them.
Just do yourself a favor and search the internet for why JW’s are considered a cult and how they continue to violate human rights. Wait, that must be another hoax!
All kidding aside, I once met a retired policeman who told me they had a list of the cults in the area and jw’s were on it. As police they were aware of the high rates of family disturbances (no problem solving skills), mental illness and even suicide.
I came from a family full of mental illness due to JW association. I am related to JW royalty. All of my aunts and uncles did missionary work in foreign countries in the 50’s, one uncle being the first JW to go to Ethiopia. He is in his 90’s and living in upstate NY now at the new Bethel. Yet, when I was a teenager and needed help, they wouldn’t speak to me. They turned their backs on me because I dared to question their version of science. As a 16 yr old girl, I had to sleep in cars when I was first exiled. I am still dead to them but I have never been disfellowshipped. If you are exposed to a kinder, gentler side of JW’s I am happy for you. Just start to put a chink in their armour and see what happens to you. See how secure you feel then when your entire life as you know it is turned upside down. I believe you are doing armchair quarterbacking right now. No stand, no conflict, no turmoil, towing the line like a good little sheep, regurgitating the speil. Get out of your chair and start asking questions. See what the reaction is. You can not make a determination how good or bad they are when you have viewed from only one side.
Calling them a cult or not is just semantics. Look at the individual actions. Give it any name you want. It is not an org. that leaves the rest of the world w/ a warm fuzzy feeling.
Whoa, more than I wanted to say.
@Shanti
I do appreciate your reaction.
However I don’t know why do you think I’m not “ready to be receptive” or “Just do yourself a favor and search the internet”. How do you know I haven’t done that in scale bigger than you? Just because i don’t share your opinion or experience ? To presume something about somebody you don’t know at all and giving the person advice is a little bit premature plus it’s not very productive form of dialog.maybe this is not the purpose of this forum.
I’m not sure if you had a chance to read my first post in this tread where I kind a introduced myself and my stand.Looks to me you didn’t.If you did I beg your pardon.Unfortunately this impersonal form of internet discussions is many times out of context and subject of misunderstandings ,which makes it low quality tool for the purpose they do intent to tackle.
I’m sorry for your sad experiences with JW.I hope you would have recollection of at least of one positive aspect of JW.
But if not I do respect it.
peace & love
Thanks for showcasing your lack of education. What year did you drop out of HS?
@”pseudonym”, who are you asking that question of?
@Man from the lions pit, I also looked up the subject cult in Wikipedia and this is what I found:
“In Cults and the Family the authors cite Shapiro, who defines a “destructive cultism” as a sociopathic syndrome, whose distinctive qualities include: “behavioral and personality changes, loss of personal identify, cessation of scholastic activities, estrangement from family, disinterest in society and pronounced mental control and enslavement by cult leaders.”
This is describing the Jehovah’s Witness religion. You have to admit that if a member decides to disassociate themselves from the Organization, that person will be shunned as if they have sinned against God. That person will be shunned if they just don’t show up for meetings anymore or go in service anymore. That is what has happened to me.
In the Organization, the Organization is to be obeyed over and above the Bible. I think if a religion claims to be a Christian religion, then the Bible has to come first. In the Org. the Org. comes first.
No normal person would shun their own child just because that child has lost faith in the Bible or God but in this religion, you are instructed to “hate” the person, as if they have sinned against God. How can a person hate God, if they don’t even believe in a God anymore but that is the excuse the elders will use to disfellowship a person who has lost faith in God and or the Bible. That describes a religion of hate not love. The Bible says that
God is Love.
When the Bible says to hate bad, that doesn’t give a religion the right to determine on their own what God would say was bad. Only the Bible should be the reference. If a group of men make decisions that go contrary to what the Bible says, then that religion is anti-christian, not Christian. You need to do some serious research about the Organization and cults.
Prove that Jerusalem was destroyed in 607 and not 586/587, like what every authority on the subject says it happened. All the literature is based on Jerusalem having been destroyed in 607. How can you preach that the Watchtower is the “truth” from door to door, if you can’t prove even that basic doctrine? Prove that Jesus was enthroned in 1914 when Matthew 28:18 says that Jesus was given all authority in heaven and earth at his resurrection. You shouldn’t preach it as “truth” unless you can prove it’s the “truth”. That would be hypocritical. Prove that you can approach God in prayer when the Society says that Jesus is the mediator between God and man only for the anointed.
@Man from Lions pit, in your post part 3, you say, “Time will
tell whether Jw right or wrong”. My questions to you, are, how
much time does it take to realise we’ve been deceived.? how
many lies must a person tell, before we no longer trust them,?
how many wrong predictions before it’s obvious a religious
organisation is a false prophet and not directed by God?.
All of us who visit this site, spent many years, believing, and
defending JWs, just as zealously as you do now, until we realised
we could no longer, truthfully, and reasonably do so.
If you are a Jw as you state, then a continuous search for truth
is not an option for you personally.. Whatever the W,T, prints, has
to be accepted as truth, equal to the Bible. To dispute this, results
in your being separated from the org, and God.
A final point… You ask,”Are we here to help each with frank and
factual dialogue”.?– yes we are,– to warn people of harmful
policies such as family shunning, which can be worse than a
bereavement, backward ideas regarding education, indoctrination
to make our life goals the goals of the wt society etc.
You seem like a good person, but I’me not sure what your objective
Is, what is it that you would like to help me about.
@Shanti .Maybi say what a beautifully worded comment.Your life experience speaks Volumes about the JW Organisation !! The Love they show is CONDITIONAL!! If anyone dares to Question Anything publicly you Will Be SHUNNED with a Capital S !! That is not Real Love or a Christian Organisation!!
@Man from the lions pit, I almost forgot the elephant in the room question. How can you prove that Jehovah God chose the Watchtower in 1919 as his one and only spokesman to mankind????? Take the Cedar’s challenge. We would all like for somebody, anybody to prove us wrong.
@Man from the lions pit, if you have searched the internet, it is time to go back to the bible (NW) and tell me why… they have removed “strong testicles” from (Jeremiah 5:8) . . .Horses seized with sexual heat, having [strong] testicles, they have become. They neigh each one to the wife of his companion.
The verse reads in the new Bible as follows:
(Jeremiah 5:8) . . .They are like eager, lustful horses, Each neighing after another man’s wife.
Why have they removed strong testicles from the Bible? Who had inspired the testicles? Jehovah or Satan or both?
Here you are, enjoy this nonsense:
*** yb01 p. 238 French Guiana ***
You practice the Sabbath, but you forget the new moon! You’re removing more than an iota from the Bible.’” Virgo later said to David: “I never go out in the service without checking the calendar to see when the new moon is, in case I meet an Adventist.”
@Man from the lion pit, … I believe that if JWs are not crazy and idiots, those who they teach the Bible must be… how can you explain this:
*** yb01 pp. 236-237 French Guiana ***
The Catholic Church was very influential. The clergy despised the Witnesses and influenced their flocks against them. This did not deter the brothers. In fact, their zeal caused a stir in the community. When people did not open their doors, the Witnesses would go around to the rear of the houses to search out people who might be hiding in the backyard. Some brothers engaged in heated arguments about the Sabbath with Adventists and about hellfire and the immortality of the soul with Evangelists. Those discussions could last from morning until evening!
@Man from the lions pit, I wanted to go back to your first comment about how looks can detract from the message? I am going to give you another illustration or riddle. If a child sees what looks like a bad person, would they be more likely to go up to that person or somebody who is beautiful in appearance and friendly? If a man wants to do harm to a child, that man will dress nicely as he can and look as innocent as he can. How JW’s look, is very important to the Society because “YES”, they don’t want looks not to detract from the message.
The question is, though, is the message the truth or is it poison? That is the most important thing to know. If JW’s look the part, that is the only thing the Society cares about. It doesn’t even matter if that person is a pedophile, as long as he’s out there pushing magazines.
@Ted
How much time ?
As much as is needed.
Individual who lost that trust of faith or got disappointed they left on their own or were DS.Probably in many cases with no legitimate grounds against their will.If that is the case and if it was deliberate ,shame to those who made that decision!
On the collective bases future divine judgment will not omit JW.ORG neither individuals belonging to this org.Me included.
Of course this apply only to those who believe in the divine judgment .
If the God doesn’t exist the time will bring the judgement anyhow by other means by social development of human society or maybe by social activism of people like you or other….or whatever you wish to name…
I’m not here to defend JW !
I’m here to stand for bible truth and defend the creator of this universe and maybe help to transcend the message from other side of the river to the some active JW who are still in and reading this forum.
Please read my first post in this tread !
peace & love
Tom, was the HS comment meant for me? My JW mother forced me to drop out of school at the start of 10th grade. You know, jw’s were wasting their time w/ education since 1974/1975 was right around the corner. I have since obtained a college degree. I have much more to say about my personal experiences and life but will refrain.
Lions pit: You may be correct about me not reading posts closely enough. Sincere apologies to anyone I have misinterpreted. Also, I’d like to commend you on searching out information. Please continue. Are you concerned what will happen if jw’s discover you are doing this? I ask this in all sincerity, not as a snide comment.
I don’t think my screwed up life w/ jw’s is an exception. The heartbreaking stories are everywhere. You must be reading some of them. How does this make you feel to know that so many others have suffered such pain at their hands? Truly interested.
Do not quit reading this forum because you have perceived that I am being accusatory or unfair. If I was, it was not my intention at all. I think the fact that you are here and posting is an admirable quality. It appears that the majority of people posting here are more advanced in the “7 stages of grief” so to speak in the recovery process. It is sometimes difficult to relate to someone who has not yet embraced it and I must say in my case, very emotional. No matter how much I try to heal, in a heartbeat I can go to that dark place w/ all the pain. Someone appearing to be cavalier about some of the issues that caused me so much pain can be very emotional. I don’t write as well as I would like to, so possibly some of my meaning gets misconstrued.
Please keep us posted w/ your journey.
@annonymous
In all cases of pedophilia past and current JW.ORG must face the scrutiny and take responsibility ! Not just pay settlements !
All legitimate case are shame to JW !To pretend that JW doesn’t have and issue with this is pitifuller ,neglectful more over criminal ! All perpetrators and those who help them cover this acts must be punish! If possible by secular authorities or if I believe strongly in divine justice and this include all members of JW GB included!
There is space for excuses in this respect!
peace & love
@Man from the lions pit. I also went back and re-read your first comment. I thought you were making excuses for the Organization but I don’t think, in retrospect that you were doing that and I apologize.
I am so hoping that more and more people come to this web site and I am anxious to have them closely examine the religion that they are involved in so that they can “wake” up to the abuses and the lies.
I don’t want anybody to live their life another day, supporting a dangerous cult. And yes, I not only think it’s a cult, I know it’s a cult. I didn’t believe it all those 50 years I was a JW, but I sure do now.
Hey Gary, I love your comments, they crack me up with laughter. You must be an Aussie! My thoughts exactly about pointing fingers at people & threatening people with his big brother Jesus. How immature!!! Big brother Jesus would just say “get away from me (or P…Off & don’t call me your bro!)…Fight your own battles, I never knew you”.
@anonymous
Apology accepted ! In fact no need for it.Thanks for reading my first comment and thus getting to the picture.And as I miss NO in my last comment :what I meant “There is NO space for excuses in this respect !” I’m very critical to my own ranks in this respect and I hope as well that more of my brothers will speak openly about this problem in hope that responsibility will be taken and flaw internal policies which needs to be change must be change ASPA! Otherwise the shame will be not only consequences !So the bottom line is whatever is good & wholesome deserve to be preserve whatever is bad and cancerous must be cut of and put on fire!
peace & love
Sorry if my previous comment seems out of place. I pressed reply to gary’s comment & it put me at the end of the discussion. I haven’t been on here for a week as I’ve been on holidays & always love to catch up on the comments. I love reading everyone’s point of view, some make me laugh others make me think outside of my own square.
Shanti, you make me sit up & listen. With all learning there is theory, then there is practical experience & until recently I had never given much thought to why so called apostates were feeling the way that they did but now I sit here not df’d or da’d but someone who feels disappointed with the lies & cover ups. I have become a conscientious objector to it & from that the religion has shown it’s ugly side as now I am bad association.
@Shanti, You are an excellent communicator, your
comments reach the heart. I look forward to hearing
more from you.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9vtEIZZau0
My approach to the copyright issue. I’m planning to upload one of those for every video they want to take down. The video itself is the same, only the title, desctiption and annotations change. This way the thing is still exposed on youtube, but they can’t do sh**.
@Shanti
Not problem at all !
If I’m concern if my brothers will read my post here ? Yes this is my objective ! Hope they will ! I’m sure they are reading this and other similar websites ,some of them maybe contribute here & there as well. Perhaps majority of them are afraid to admit they are JW maybe fear or of some punishment like a DS and shunning ! I think the time came when we have to change in this respect at least to start to discuss these things which were before omitted for whatever reason.There were attempts to “reform” JW in some way and in same respect before some of them came from highest place as you many know ,you may feel that those people did not succeeded in full sense but at least they left some legacy to think about.Whether they were right or wrong is different topic.Since than at least 30y past and our ORG. changed in many respects same as the whole world changed.Unfortunately not all changes were necessarily improvements.Dogmatic attitudes and pride is always strong enemy! I feel for all my use to brothers who were hurt in some way and If I would able to undue these injustices right now I would hesitate a second!
The only contribution I can do for now is : how to improve humanity by my own existence is only by small actions of love & kindness on daily bases rather that by big words & ideas.The Golden rule Jesus talked about.By the way there is something like Darwin’s award where the award is given individuals who are considered unfit or useless for human genome code and thus for future welfare of humankind.The idea seems ridiculous to many but it clearly show how far human reasoning can go in some respect ! .
I do respect all platforms & individuals who makes valid ,legitimate & truthful pointers or cases.Of course many things are based on some particular interpretation of Bible passages and are subject of doctrinal reasoning and debates.However priority & emphasis should be always put on peace and ability to coexist in harmony.I do believe this will be only achieved by government from Daniel 2:44 on the grand scale.But till that time all of us have to strive for that peace in our own strengt! Of course only all those who wish for the peace &love.
Unfortunately there are many who hates the “cult of love & life”.
In one “fairy tail once upon a time” there was a cult of love and kingdom were love & life were flourishing.Then someday somebody stared to dislike and hate the idea of this “boring cult of love & life” and introduce his way and his “cult of love & life”since then the all humankind and universe awaits how this “fairy-tail ” will end if at all…
peace & love
@Ted,Shanti,Anonymous.Enjoyed your comments.Very much from the HEART & like all of us have been through much Emotional Pain& Suffering.Take Care all of you & keep posting.You are all helping & anyone else I haven’t mentioned.!!
Man from lions pit, thanks for your reply, much appreciated.
You said, “I am here to defend the bible and the creator of
this universe”, so I assume you mean the Bible God JHVH.?
Like you, I am deeply interested in truth and I would genuinely
like to hear your defence of the following bible passages.
Numb, 31/17—Deut, 2/33-34,—Josh 6/21,—Josh,8/24-27
Lev,26/ 27-29,—Josh,10/40. There are many more examples
of what most people would consider as barbaric atrocities.
I would sincerely like to know how we can equate these things
with love, which the Bible God is said to be.
Very best wishes to you and yours,
@Pickled brain. Thank you and I enjoy all your comments as well. We are a “large” army and hopefully, soon we will see the Organization exposed for what it is, a dangerous, poisonous cult that destroys lives.
Well Cedars, i enjoyed the read. Exposing the GB for who they are…..a bunch of cover up masters. To take that video off of you tube was a direct “WE’RE EMBARRASSED OF ONE OF OUR OWN”…. nice work my man.
Oh and nice work gb……and ya didnt even know it..ha ha !!!
In 1919 when Jesus & JEHOVAH chose the only true Organisation i.e. The Bible students because they were Providing the Right Spiritual Food at the Proper Time then I would IMPLORE any one to read The FINISHED MYSTERYBOOK which was published between 1917&1927.Anyone can download pdf file from Internet.The CLAIMS & PROPHECIES are all OLD LIGHT & Utter Drivel.!!
If Jesus chose this Organisation on the basis of this BOOK then I AM DOUGAL of the MAGIC ROUNDABOUT!!!
&Ted .I have looked up all scriptures you quoted.Couldnt agree more with your summation of these awful atrocities & many,many more .Only one word comes to mind ‘GENOCIDE’ sanctioned by JEHOVAH. !!!Lets Kill all The women & children these Scriptures say .Please does anyone want to worship that BRUTALITY!!