Chances are if you’re reading this you are one of the 536,000 (and counting!) people who has already seen a remarkable video by a courageous schoolgirl named Brie.
Brie, a senior at Lincoln High School in Manitowoc, Wisconsin, was given an assignment with the rest of her classmates to deliver a “persuasive speech.”
“[The teacher] pointed out that speeches are much more persuasive when you’re using something you value to drive your ideas,” Brie later wrote on the Friendly Atheist blog. “It made me think about what I value in life and what my class needed to know about.”
When Brie gave her emotional speech she made sure one of her friends filmed it for her. She told her classmates of her experience growing up as a Jehovah’s Witness, including the negative impact of shunning on her family and the covering up of abuse she has witnessed among her friends.
The resulting video was uploaded less than a week ago, but it has already gone well-and-truly viral – even catching the attention of the UK’s respected Independent newspaper.
We can be thankful to Brie’s teacher, Mr Hansen, for handing Brie an assignment that has turned out to be truly educational, not just for her class, but for the whole world.
This brave 18-year-old girl has seized an opportunity to stand up to Watchtower, a sinister bully that exports misery on a global scale, and has utterly exposed and shamed it in front of over half a million people.
“It is a religion that preaches love and acceptance, but the reality is everything is conditional,” said Brie. “Love and acceptance is only extended as long as members practice absolute obedience and question nothing, ever. This religion destroys lives, destroys families and they do it largely unchecked… because they are really good at silencing the people who leave.”
Probably many ex-Witnesses like me will have felt a twinge of envy while watching these words spoken, simply because we too have been victimized by Watchtower and would have given anything to turn back the clock and take such a bold stand as teenagers.
But not many of us, myself included, were as courageous back then as Brie is now – and that is the crucial difference.
I cannot thank Brie enough for her inspirational words, and for taking such a powerful stand for her generation. Brie has done what any good activist does: she has taken the pain experienced by herself and others and turned it into something positive and productive by using it to raise awareness and thus spare others, not least her classmates, from what she has gone through.
The runaway success of Brie’s video highlights clearly that the Watchtower finds itself in a whole new ball game. The tables have well and truly turned.
Gone are the days when the Governing Body could withhold information from those tenacious and persistent enough to search for it. Gone are the days when they could stifle free thought, and keep young, intelligent people in silence and subjection.
The internet has changed everything. Now everybody has a voice if they will only summon the courage to use it. It is a privilege to see a brave young woman like Brie do just that, and find her voice with such stunning results.
Further reading…
“On one occasion as a 16yr old at a convention I was seen talking to a young single brother from a different congregation. ……….. But I was swooped upon; dragged away to my embarrassment and treated as though I had been up to all sorts of shenanigans with him, ……”
Rosie, you sound as though you’ve been through the mill with that stupid cult. Unfortunately, they can’t have a life and have nothing better to do than speculate about other people’s. I remember at one District convention in the seventies I was asked by my sister if I would look after my young nephew for a while during one of the breaks (something had come up which she needed to attend to) so I took him by the hand and we went for a walk. Along the way I bumped into a sister from my congregation and we started chatting. She then took my nephew’s other hand and we continued walking. Well, within a couple of hours the JW grapevine had both of us engaged and there was speculation about when we would marry. I find it amusing now, but was quite annoyed at the time.
There is a sister and brother in my congregation that love the elders and make very moving comments at meetings (when I attended) about what a wonderful job the elders do etc. and how fortunate our congregation is to have such “loving” brothers as our elders. What those people don’t know is that when their son was about 16 years old, he liked a young girl from a neighboring congregation and at one of our circuit assemblies, one of the brothers from the young girl’s kingdom hall, was telling my husband and me how the brothers from the girl’s kingdom hall were all taking turns following the young man around, making sure that he didn’t grab that girl and rape her in the bushes during the lunch breaks.
If the brother and sister (the mom and dad) in my old congregation had any idea that those men were following their son around like that, thinking he was going to rape that girl, I wonder if their comments about how “loving” the elders would be then?
If I ever get called before a committee, that is one of the things that I will tell the elders that I am going to do is to tell that sister and her husband about what happened at that assembly concerning their 16 year old boy and we will see just how long they would stay in this “wonderful and loving” religion then.
Brie : I was emotionally involved and cried when you cried during the video . I was raised as a witness, then my family stopped attending when I was ten, but a lot of the damage had been done. My mother was murdered by her second husband in the late 80s. So needless to say, I had questions. I progressed and later served in the circuit work with my spouse.
Even fiber of my body tells me this religion is wrong and I can’t see any “good God” backing it. Your testimony of the women added more reason for me to feel the way I do… Thanks so much for your courage and honesty!
It just go’s to show there is a sense of justice in all persons young and old. It can not be covered over, put under the carpet, it will come to the surface and be expressed. What Brie has related is true and others have been raped and gone to elders for help only to be accused of shocking things. I remember one circuit overseer saying some of these elders would not be appointed in other congregations, so the standards are all over the place. When a person comes for help, that is what they should get. Be comforted and reassured.
The lack of follow up to help shows a lack of love and concern, then to call people names show they are not following Christ. There is a saying the fish stinks from the head down. Freedom from oppression is calling out loud and clear. It is true what go’s around comes around. With the judgement they give, it will be given to them.
@anonymous, Your account of the brother being followed
by elders, to check on his actions, is like the Gospel narrative
at Mark 3: 1-6. There the Pharisees followed Jesus closely
to see if he would break the Sabbath Law.
I don’t think Jesus would qualify as an elder today. He applied
the Law with “Equity” ( fairness ) and humanity, not rigidly
I know that many elders are reasonable and have good qualities
but they are constrained by the rule book, and this can make them
hard and unyielding.
As Brie rightly says this is a “Hierarchy”. At the top are men who
act like the Pharisees, stifling the individual conscience and pressing
elders, and everyone else , into the same inflexible pattern.
Ted, I think there are lots and lots of really good elders who don’t act like pharisees and really love the congregation and wouldn’t follow young ones around and treat them like criminals when they haven’t even done anything wrong but there are also a lot who would follow a young one around like those elders were doing to that young fellow from my congregation.
I know the reason they didn’t “trust” that young man is because he wasn’t real regular out in service or meetings and he was quiet.
Once when my son was about 10 or 11, he was visiting at a friend’s house who was a Witness and his friend from the Hall lived right down the street from us. My son and his friend who was about a year older were talking about visiting another young boy from the Kingdom Hall and his friend’s mom was in earshot of them talking and the mother of my son’s friend (a Witness also) told her son that she didn’t want him to go and visit that other kid because the other kid wasn’t baptized and so wasn’t “good association”.
My son then got the impression then that since he wasn’t baptized yet, that then in order to be considered “good association” that he also must get baptized because he got the impression loud and clear from his friend’s mother that he also must not be considered “good association” since he wasn’t baptized. So then my son decided to get baptized and went through the questions with the elders. At the time, the elders said he wasn’t ready but by the next assembly they did let him get baptized.
It isn’t just the elders who can be judgmental and Pharisaical. The Watchtower organization taught us all to be judgmental and Pharisaical. We were taught that our kids were not to associate with anybody who didn’t go to meetings regularly and answer at the meetings and go in service every week and talk about how they wanted to pioneer when they got of school and on and on.
If a kid didn’t look up the scriptures at the meetings and have them written down in the margins it would show that that kid just wasn’t good enough for our kids to associate with and could drag our kid down “spiritually” and so to make sure our kids were good “association”, we had to make sure that our kids answered at the meetings and underlined their Watchtowers in bright markers to make sure everyone around could see how well our kids did their lessons and we had to make sure that our kids talked about how much they wanted to pioneer etc. and how disgusting it was to even to consider going to college. We had to make sure that our kids took notes at assemblies and we had to make dam sure that our kids sat quietly at the meetings when they were little and to make sure that we were really good examples, we’d beat the crap out of our kids in the back of the hall in the bathroom so everyone could hear them scream. We wanted our kids to be accepted and have friends at the Hall so that is what we did so they would have friends at the Kingdom Hall because we knew they weren’t allowed to have any friends who weren’t Witnesses and besides we thought that if we “inculcated” the “truth” into them that it would save them through Armageddon. All that was so drummed into us from the Society’s literature that we were all turned into Pharisees. The Society wants all of the Witnesses to be “proud” to be Witnesses and most are very proud (not in a good way). That is how we were trained by the Organization to be as parents to our kids. Is it any wonder that hardly any of those kids want anything to do with the “truth” when they grow up?
The last I looked, I think Brie’s video will reach the 600,000 mark by the end of the day. She has over 5,000 likes and only 287 dislikes.
All those Witnesses who clicked dislike would like to think that those kinds of elders that Brie talked about would be in other congregations and not their own but if they ever got molested and raped like those sisters she talked about, then and only then would they understand all the 5,000 likes because what she described happening to those sisters is Watchtower policy and those elders were following orders from the Society.
Sure looks and reads like how muslims operate, through non-assimilation. Not to be governed or tainted by non-believers (Jews, Christians, Kafiers, Infidels etc.). Hard to believe in today’s enlightenment we are to tolerate the intolerant yet under a faith… wholesale practiced intolerance by JWs and muslims. So much for simple human rights, having an equality of respect & dignity.
Brie, an excellent presentation!
dogstar
There was a brief moment in Watchtower history that came when Ray Franz tried to steer the governing body toward ‘freedom of conscience’. I remember articles in the Watchtower about allowing each other the freedom to decide, based upon ‘Christian principles’.
It was like a breath of fresh air wafting through halls of strict enforced ‘pharisaical’ policies and rules. Of course as soon as Bethel heavies began to see the self study of the bible, independent actions, they quickly reigned back ‘personal conscience’ for even more thorough, trite rules and policies via secret elder manuals and the like.
An opportunity to become an organization of true Christian freedom, lost forever, because a few wise men read and truly understood what Jesus was teaching. Protecting power and influence was and is at the base root of the Watchtower structure.
@Anonymous & @ Danman BOTH of your COMMENTS show ALL the HALLMARKS of a CULT !!! You Really have YEARS of Experience between you & the points you make show the GB & the Organisation is GOVERNED by PHARASAICAL Rules which have no relation to Christianity because Jesus wanted LOVE,JUSTICE & MERCY!!!
Where in the Scriptures has the GB got the right to tell me WHAT DAMN COLOUR SHIRT to WEAR on the PLATFORM & whether I have a BEARD or not as I was told in 1984 by my body of Elders !!!
If she has been in it so long… how come she makes the mistake of constantly calling them “Jehovah Witness” when it’s “Jehovah’S Witnesses” (PLURAL). Being a born and raised witness myself and now having become a “disassociated fader” that just raised so many red flags. Any witness, disfellowshipped or otherwise, should know how to properly pronounce their old religion, particularly one so affected as Brie. This is how I would determine if someone was truthful or not…if they trip up over the important small details should this affect their credibility?
I believe her, but man that just troubles me.
@J*L*C*R . I have listened to Brie twice now & she does say the correct pronunciation ! This is an INNOCENT Question but do you listen to LOUD Music a lot because you may have lost some of your sense of hearing.
Perhaps you should visit a Doctor who specialises in HEARING Disabilities! I say this with genuine concern as now you have no hope of the ‘PARADISE’ your hearing won’t be healed in the New System!!
I can VOUCH for Everything she says which I have seen & experienced much of what she relates in many many instances!!
You are NOT a MAN by ANY CHANCE!!! Because WOMEN have Had Enough of being Treated as SECOND CLASS CITIZENS in the ORGANISATION ,LETS Not NIT PICK But concentrate on the Positive!!
This Video will Help tens of thousands of women BREAK FREE from The SLAVERY imposed on them in this Organisation & YES I CALL DOMESTIC ABUSE …. SLAVERY!!!
Pickled Brain….for someone who states they hate the watchtower so much, you really enjoy using their tactics of bullying and insulting language when trying to convey an argument.
Not to mention going completely off the reservation with the topic at hand… we are talking about the greenhorn, door-step bible student mistake of mispronouncing the name of the religion.
Any JW would laugh at this because of the mistakes in small details. In order to sway their entrenched opinion, you have to be on your toes with the facts at hand.
I clearly heard her repeatedly say “Jehovah Witness” singular and not plural…that’s just my opinion.
This does not detract from her argument or message in any way…she conveyed it politely, stayed on topic, and was courteous throughout. Maybe, you should watch it a third time and learn some of that before giving someone both barrels over the internet.
J*L*C*R , I for one like to misspell their name too, I do it subconsciously. I think it’s a way of showing I am not one of them anymore, I don’t follow their rules, call them however I want sort of thing.
I was brought up in this religion too.
Who cares!!!! Nit picking like the organization does, drives me nuts!
Also, not “nit picking” is why I was trapped in this organization for so long. Critically examine everything before you accept it at face value. Her main point was “think for yourself”….seriously people, don’t be a sheep.
Just because something “tickles your ear” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be subjective and examine it thoroughly.
But that’s exactly my point, I was trying to show that not spelling JWs name correctly is completely normal even if you were a witness for decades, hence in my opinion it is totally irrelevant in establishing the truthfulness of Brie’s story.
Well done you for standing up to the bullies on this site
Liam Smith – What an interesting observation coming from someone who, on first arriving on this site, once said…
“Been a fader for 3 years now and actually find some of the comments on here so petty and nit picking, GET A LIFE.”
Amazing that I am a bully for saying “You’re easily insulted,” while your “petty and nitpicking, GET A LIFE” remark gets a clean bill of health.
@J*L*C*R, are you seriously suggesting that she made up her life experience in the “truth” because she said Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness? Why in the world would a young girl make up a story like that when most Witness kids find it embarrassing to even admit to the rest of the kids that they even belong to the Witness religion?
How she was treated as a young Witness is why she spoke with such feeling and she has EMPATHY for the victims that she is talking about which most Witnesses don’t have.
If anyone doubts that she is telling the truth, there has to be something wrong with them or else that girl deserves an Oscar for such a moving performance for being such a good actress and I for one can’t imagine that she is acting.
I said I believed her… I only implied that why one Earth would someone mispronounce the name of the religion? It was probably a simple mistake but not even bible studies make that greenhorn mistake in mispronunciation… particularly someone who grew up in it. When a person makes novice mistakes like that, it detracts from the message. It’s like listening to a lecture and someone constantly mispronouncing the subject…after awhile it’s just embarrassing.
Also, that’s a nice comment you made about “If anyone doubts that she is telling the truth, there has to be something wrong with them”. That reminds me of an organization that called anyone with a different opinion “mentally handicapped”…I wonder where we have heard that before?
Also, not “nit picking” is why I was trapped in this organization for so long. Critically examine everything before you accept it at face value. Her main point was “think for yourself”….seriously people, don’t be a sheep.
Just because something “tickles your ear” doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be subjective and examine it thoroughly.
That wasn’t the end of my sentence J*L*C*R. I don’t know for sure that everything she said was the truth either but if she’s not telling her true experience with the “truth” then I said she deserves an Oscar for being that good an actress. Her speech was so moving that she had students also tearing up and I am sure that a lot of people who watched her video teared up when they were listening to it. If she’s that good an actress, she deserves an award for it.
and to add to my last comment, I have heard many a Witness say Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness from people who have been in the “truth” for many many years. It is a common mistake especially for people who weren’t allowed to go to college and especially for people who aren’t in the “truth” and you have to remember that she was talking to kids who are used to hearing the term Jehovah Witnesses instead of Jehovah’s Witnesses but she does start out by saying that she was raised a “Jehovah’s Witness”.
Also, she names the congregation where she was from and the first experience was in that congregation and could be easily proved false if it wasn’t true.
When Brie gave that speech, she was just giving a speech in class and had no idea it would get hundreds of thousands of views within a week and if she had known that was going to happen, she probably would have been really nervous. She had no idea that thousands of people were going to see her speech and didn’t realize that there would be people who would pick on every little word she said wrong, which is a good thing. If she had known ahead of time what would happen, who knows? Maybe she would have been too nervous, knowing how people would be picking it apart, word by word and not had to courage to go through with her speech.
What she did took courage beyond courage and to say that her speech raised red flags to you, raises red flags to your comment as far as I am concerned.
What part of “I agree with what she said” didn’t you understand? You are preaching to the choir, already. Good lord friend, take a breath.
And please, just because someone has a different opinion other than yours, DOES NOT give you the right to shove your own down their throats. If I wanted to not have a cool, calm debate over a topic; I’d just as soon start attending my meetings again and have their opinions shoved down my throat.
We can agree or disagree without being disagreeable.
Also, before you throw another tantrum. I AGREE WITH BRIE AND EVERYTHING SHE SAID….I ALSO AGREE WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE SAID. (except for the whole “if you disagree with brie something must be wrong with you” part that was just plain rude.
Seriously… you people blocked me? I am the only EX JW who is not so touchy about their past experiences that they cannot politely discuss their opinions with others? I was nothing but polite and courteous to all the people who insulted me and you don’t see me blocking them.
For Pete’s sake, one person says anything contrary to popular opinion and they jump on them faster than a pizza at a weightloss convention.
Has anyone read Pickled Brains response to mine? There were so many ad hominem attacks, insults, and bullying remarks, you would think Pickled Brain was a member of the governing body. Particularly, after I wrote “I agree with what she said”.
Just because your typing and looking at an empty computer screen doesn’t give anyone the right to be rude to the other.
J*L*C*R, again, my whole sentence was if anyone doubted that she was telling the truth there has to be something wrong with them, did not end there. The rest of the sentence was because if she is not telling the truth, she has to get an Oscar for her performance.
Neither of us knows her or lived through her experiences so all we can do is go by what she said and how she said it. I wasn’t saying that if anyone doubted her that there was something wrong with them and left it there.
We are all entitled to our opinions but most dyed in the wool Witnesses would say the same thing you did and then they would call into question the validity of her being a Witness and say she is making it all up because she said Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness every time but if you listen to her speech again, you will hear that she starts out by saying “I was raised a Jehovah’s Witness”.
There were a couple things about her speech too that I wondered about like why in the world would those elders tell that young woman that she had to drop the charges against her rapist if she wasn’t to get disfellowshipped especially since the one that raped her wasn’t even a Witness.
What I would love to see is if it get national attention and she is able to go on television and give the whole story or maybe have those women come on and tell their stories to back her up. I am sure there is much more to the stories that she had to leave out because of time constraints.
“I believe her, but man that just troubles me.”
You’re easily troubled.
Seriously, Lloyd. For someone I look up to as a man for free thinking and not taking things at face value, you insult me?
You were a witness once too, in your congregation didn’t the die hards laugh at those who called themselves “Jehovah Witness” instead of “I am one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
I would expect to be congratulated at such scrutiny, from a man such as yourself, who ALWAYS says to ask questions.
I was you and your articles that woke myself and my mother and father up in the first place.
For someone who suffers from depression Lloyd, that was a pretty low comment to say to someone who may have the same affliction.
You are my hero Lloyd, and your reaction to my comment is just plain hurtful.
Also, when it comes to finding the truth about the realities of the Watchtower’s crimes, yes I am easily troubled. Anyone serious about taking them down would be easily troubled to anything they could turn around and beat the arguer over the head with.
Brie did a fantastic job but in the eyes of any witness, (as you know) when they start calling themselves “Jehovah Witness” it all goes out the window for them.
You’re insulted by my saying “you’re easily troubled?”
Then you’re also easily insulted.
I took your comment too seriously. All things aside though, I can’t believe I am talking to you Lloyd. You are my hero!
This is why I don’t like online communication, same with emails. I can’t hear a person’s tone and their sense of humor (like I know you definitely have one over prank calling Tight Pants Tony) over the internet.
I’ve always wanted to get involved and write an article for your site, Lloyd. How can a person go about doing that? If that’s even an option?
Anyway, thanks for your time Lloyd, and the opportunity to talk with you.
I came to this site in hopes of finding cool and calm individuals I could have a horizon broadening debate with. Now I see there are just as many hotheads and extremists on this site as there are at my Kingdom Hall. I’ll have to keep looking, I guess.
Anyway, I have a life to live now free from the Watchtower. A world where I am not afraid to share my opinions with others from fear of reprisals.
Last Words…just because it’s coming from a seemingly innocent and reliable source, don’t automatically assume it’s the truth. Examine the facts and come to your own conclusions…
You should patrol and inforce your guidlines more Lloyd, I have never been more insulted in my life than in your comments section.
J*L*C*R, of course it is always good to try to get to the bottom of something. But everything has its extremes, like the complete acquiesce of people in the cult and also the people out of it, who now challenge everything and believe nothing.
Think the other way around, if she’d somehow made that up and faked her JW experience I’d expect her to be very very fussy to NOT let something like that slip. I’d expect her to research JWs really good so that she knew how they are called. There might be exceptions, but probably the normal young student is not capable of pulling such a double stunt. And if, what’d be the point of that? For what purpose should she troll the JW and Ex-JW community?
I guess it’s just that: a nervous pupil giving a speech about something highly emotional in which she is directly involved. Such errors simply happen.
(Answer to (citate) just in case it got mixed up):
If she has been in it so long… how come she makes the mistake of constantly calling them “Jehovah Witness” when it’s “Jehovah’S Witnesses” (PLURAL). Being a born and raised witness myself and now having become a “disassociated fader” that just raised so many red flags. Any witness, disfellowshipped or otherwise, should know how to properly pronounce their old religion, particularly one so affected as Brie. This is how I would determine if someone was truthful or not…if they trip up over the important small details should this affect their credibility?
I believe her, but man that just troubles me
Anonymous…I agree 100%. :)
Also, it turns out I wasn’t blocked, it was a spam sifter or something. My bad. (operator malfunction)
It’s hard enough for a kid to speak in front of the class, let alone about a topic so sensitive. She is a courageous young woman who has my respect.
I also want to apologize to you for what I said earlier. I took your comment to literally and I scrutinized her speech a little too much.
Since, i’ve left the “truth” all of my friends and some of my family have cut all ties. Going to school now even (community college), I keep my past hidden because I am afraid of how my new friends would react to being around an ex cultist.
Brie really is an inspiration. One day, I hope I can confront my own past and follow her example.
I understand. You were playing devil’s advocate and there is nothing wrong with that. I believe in doing the same thing if we want active Witnesses to know that we aren’t being biased but being honest with them.
If Witnesses are going to pick on her video and call it into question, they will pick on one little thing like that and dismiss everything else that she said. Their brains will stop at that and go no further.
Witnesses will look for any little imperfections in her speech to say she is making it up but most honest people can tell by how she speaks, that she was affected personally and that comes through loud and clear. We also have to remember that she was only giving a speech to her class and did not know it would be to the world, like it turned out to be. Had she known ahead of time and she wasn’t too nervous to give that speech, she would have made it perfect, I am sure. As it was, it was from the heart and it didn’t have to be perfect but it was amazing anyway.
It has only been one week since her speech and this is only the beginning. Hopefully it reaches millions and millions of views. Hopefully there will be a ground swell against the Society starting with the youth and maybe her speech will give other children the courage to speak up too. Her speech makes me want to get up in front of people and do the same thing. She truly is an inspiration to all of us.
The youth are the next generation and if they refuse to fall in step, then the head of the snake will die.
Amen to that anonymous…. the sooner the better.
@J*L*C*R,
You did raise a legitimate question, I did notice that she said “Jehovah Witness”. I just put it down to nerves & I thought that still ins would pick that but I thought that if that’s all that they had to pick then they’re being nit picky which is something that they are good at.
Your opinions are appreciated, it’s good to have open debate.
Thank you! Your open-mindedness is greatly appreciated. :)
If we can’t have good, polite debates here then where can we have them?
I watched the video and quite frankly was a little weirded out when she got all choked up. I know it’s nerve-wracking giving a speech like that and she recovered nicely.
However, I do agree with JLCR. I was entrenched in this religion from age 8 to age 48, about 3 years ago. The most laughed at and popular “mistake” was always when someone said I’m a Jehovah Witness. No. If you’ve been involved for more than 6 months or so, you are “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses”.
I too heard Brie make that mistake in terminology throughout her video. Maybe her mother was “one of Jehovah’s Witnesses” – but she was, by her own admission, “a Jehovah Witness”. Big, Big difference.
Exactly!
@Who Shall Go When God’s Kingdom Comes?,
Have you thought of maybe trying a new drug. You sound very intoxicated.
I know that’s right! I’ll have what he’s having. ;)
@J*L*C*R . GOOD GRIEF ! I CANNOT Believe the debate that has ensued while I went to sleep after my last comment !! I am from the U,K. and it is 5.30 . Just getting up to get ready for field service You LACK a Sense of humour J*L*C*R . You ACCUSE ME of NOT BEING POLITE!! Well you Don’t do a BAD JOB of Being Insulting & YES YOU ARE RIGHT ….., I AM A MEMBER of the GOVERNING BODY going under the guise of …. PICKLED BRAIN…!!!!
ANTHONY is my REAL NAME… You LACK A SENSE of HUMOUR & for that I Will ANNOUNCE from the PLATFORM that you WILL BE ….. RE-INSTATED!!!
@J*L*C*R …. Before I commented to you there were only 72 replies to this post & I thought there should be at least 500 on THIS BRILLIANT YOUNG LADIES POST!!
I BET YOU ARE From the GOOD OLD U.S.A…,,, Just have a STRANGE FEELING in MY GOOD OLD … EZEKIEL BONES !!!! A Bit Like the FAITHFUL SLAVE had in 1919!!
Oh hhhh !! BOY oh BOYI am GOING to ENJOY DEBATING with you J*L*C*R*.
Anyway MUCH CHRISTIAN LOVE to YOU …. J*L*C*R*
LOVE ANTHONY the THIRDddddd xxx
Either you are being extraordinarily rude to M Saurus or your up to your eyeballs in that religion. If so, trust me I’ve been in your shoes…get out before it’s too late and your life and time has been wasted….no joke.
@J*L*C*R . You could be RIGHT maybe I have spent too long in this Religion!! Something I can agree with you on… & YES I suppose sometimes the mouth can run ahead of the brain ! I have to admit it can happen to the best of us or the worst!
But they say it takes a STRONG MAN to say they are SORRY !! So I am willing to say I was too harsh in my comments to you & yes you have a right to comment on how BRIE said things .
BUT I will say it is important to STAY UNITED in WHAT BRIEs MESSAGE was & that was INJUSTICE AGAINST WOMEN !!
I
Amen, Pickled Brain. I except your apology.
If you bothered to read my comment to anonymous, I apologized to him to.
I came to this site in hopes of finding cool and calm individuals I could have a horizon broadening debate with. Now I see there are just as many hotheads and extremists on this site as there are at my Kingdom Hall. I’ll have to keep looking, I guess.
Anyway, I have a life to live now free from the Watchtower. A world where I am not afraid to share my opinions with others from fear of reprisals.
Last Words…just because it’s coming from a seemingly innocent and reliable source, don’t automatically assume it’s the truth. Examine the facts and come to your own conclusions…
@J*L*C*R* . Thank you for BEING SO GRACIOUS in your Acceptance of my apology . IT IS APPRECIATED !!! You have shown yourself to be a DECENT PERSON !!
WE all NEED on this site to be in UNISON in our FIGHT against the Watchtower & GB!!
The main Focus here is what Brie Highlighted that WOMEN in the ORGANISATION are Treated like Second Class Citizens!!!
Take care J*L*C*R* … You have suffered like the rest of us at the hands of the GB & Watchtower . So I wish you well
@J*L*C*R * . We ALL NEED as Many Comments on this site as possible. Your comments are Valued !!! I might be a bit Naughty at times with my comments but US BRITS HUMOUR May not be Appreciated by ALL . But we Need you ALL on this site !
Let’s Carry the Fight TOGETHER !!
@Shanti . I LIKE your CALM LOGIC in your Comments & Reasoning to J*L*C*R *
Your comments show a very balanced approach & Attitude & did influence me in my Apology to J*L*C*R* .
We don’t want to intentionally hurt anyone who is struggling to get over from the damage the GB have done to people!!
A king has no power without his army.
Thus a few men on the GB don’t deserve all the blame. Their supporters are guilty too. Without them, the GB would have no power.
@Apostates will SUFFER GNASHING of Teeth. I JUST CANT RESIST Having SENSIBLE DIALOGUE with you …. As we are getting on so well together … I Feel Quite Close to you ???? Pardon Me , but do you mind if I CALL You ‘ GNASHING ‘ for short … It has such a WARM FEEL To it !!!
Anyway my DEAR GNASHING , you sat the GLORIOUS TRUTH will SHINE THROUGH ‘!!!!
Could you Kindly tell me ‘Is that the GLORIOUS TRUTH about 1799(Last Days According to Russell)) & 1874& 1878 or 1914,1918,1919,1925,1975 or the Glorious Truth about ‘ the GENERATION ‘ or ‘Sheep& Goats or Who the F& D Slave are or whether to have ORGAN TRANSPLANTS????
Well my Dear Gnashing Teeth … See you at the DENTISTS!!! I think you NEED FILLING IN Or CROWNED !!!
@ Simon Kestrel. I appreciated your comment about ‘Except’ ,
I enjoy your comments.
@ GNASHING !!! WHERE ARE YOU … MY LOVE???
That is absolutely hilarious Pickled Brain. I am sure “Gnashing” had more important things to do, like go collect all the pocket change/ice cream money from the kids at his local kingdom hall. The society does not need the money or anything, they just need something shiny to glue to their miniature pyramid they are building. Got to let the light get brighter after all…….
@Swallow Tail . GLAD you enjoyed the LOVE that is BLOSSOMING between ME & GNASHING ????!
I feel like writing a NEW BIBLE BOOK called …… Wait for it ….. Da DA Da …, ‘The SONG of GNASHING ‘. …Solomon … EAT YOUR HEART OUT!!!
SwallowTail .. I REALLY ENJOY your SENSE of HUMOUR TOO!!! My HERO ??is JOHN CLEESE!!! Just Love FAWLTY TOWERS & Parts of MONTY PYTHON!!!
@J*L*C*R . YOU ARE RIGHT.., WE ARE STRONGER UNITED !!! Don’T LET the GB WIN by DIVIDING US … So APOLOGIES to ANYONE ELSE on this Site I may have Rubbed up the Wrong Way in the Past !!
Let’s BEAT the GB TOGETHER !!!!
@Finn Sawyer. Scrolling back to earlier comments I noticed your ones . You show a Depth of wisdom in how you approach your subject like Shanti does .
Thanks PB. I enjoy your comments as well.
@Swallowtail . Glad you like my ‘Song of Gnashing’… WONDER IF MY SONG will Make the NEW SONG BOOK !!! I will submit it to the GB…What do you think my chances are???
@ Pickled Brain, Don’t you waste your awesome ‘Song of Gnashing’ on them now!! You keep that jewel for yourself and all of us! LOL
@Swallowtail . I think you are right . My Talented Song would probably be wasted on the GB though I was thinking of Asking Stephen LETTS to Sing it !!
I MEAN his GNASHING GESTURES would be AMAZING!!! & David Splane would make a Great DRACULA!!!!
THAT’S GENIUS Pickled Brain. Hey while we are at it, lets get them to perform it in some “tight pants”.
@Swallowtail . NOW THATS WHAT I CALL…… ‘ NEW LIGHT’!!!!!
@Exhausted . Enjoy your comments & I like the Name you’ve called yourself . I think we have ALL FELT MENTALLY EXHAUSTED at Times because of the EMOTIONAL PAIN & HURT caused by the STUPID & CRUEL RULES of 7 MEN in BROOKLYN !!
& AS you say IT IS the SUBJUGATION of WOMEN in this CULT & the The ISSUE of DOMESTIC ABUSE & the DISGUSTING WAY it is HANDLED by the GB!!!
UTTERLY DISGRACEFUL !!!!
DAVID SPLANE & HIS WHITE ONLY CHOIR with the Token black person thrown in MAKES ME SICK!!
Years ago the GB stopped sisters playing the piano for songs in the Kingdom Hall BECAUSE it DREW TOO MUCH ATTENTION to the SISTER playing the Piano.
SUBJUGATION of WOMEN AGAIN…..But the DRAMA QUEEN …. DAVID ( Dracula ) SPLANE PONCES about with his FLIPPING WAND( conductors stick) .. WAVING it ABOUT like He’s GODS GIFT to the Philharmonic Orchestra.
DRACULA …. Sorry I mean … DAVID ,the DAMNED END is COMING( ARMAGEDDON ) , GET OUT & Get your DAMNED CART out there ,Knock on a few Doors & SAVE LIVES!!
GET RID of the CHOIR .!! Our DEAR Stephen LETTS is SHORT on FUNDS !!! & KEEP Your LIFE SIMPLE !!
If Anyone wants to see the FAMOUS , ILLUSTRIOUS CONDUCTOR & COMPOSER:
DAVID VON SPLANE BEETHOVEN ! PLEASE Look at That Popular TV Series … TV.JW.Org & Go to the Music Section & Songs….. JUST SO FINANCIALLY INSPIRING !!!
PB, those choir pieces literally make me nauseous. When did this organization become so obsessed with singing and music videos? Growing up, I asked my parents why we weren’t allowed to listen to Christian rock, why don’t we have a choir? Seems like that would be ideal music for a Christian, my naive mind reasoned. The answer: “It’s not Christian it’s from the Devil!” Now, I’m sure JW chicks are falling all over themselves for the anonymous music video brother the’yre using these days in the broadcasts. What’s next? A long-haired rock band? I can barely keep up the light is getting brighter so quickly!
@FInn . What REALLY ANNOYED me last year our Congregation donated £3000 for Hospitality for Inter ational Delegates & SIsters & Brothers were Dancing & Singing to Pharrell Williams song ‘HAPPY’
Back in the 1980s I DESTROYED all my Rock Records of The Rolling Stones, The Who,Bad Company ,Deep Purple, David Bowie,Etc because of the GB telling us ‘ Would we Listen to this Music IF JESUS was in the Room with us??
So OBVIOUSLY …. JESUS is HAPPY to Listen to Pharrell Williams …. WELCOME to the Forever Changing ‘ CLARIFICATIONS & ADJUSTMENTS of 7 mainly AMERICAN MEN in Brooklyn !!!
@Finn . I think the Camera LINGERS TOO LONG on the SISTER with the RED LIPSTICK … Or Hang on Maybe THATS ME LINGERING Toooo Long on the Voluptuous Sister with the RED LIPSTICK !!!!
I Think DavId SPLANES Conductors STICK is TOO UPRIGHT when He POINTS HIS ‘STICK????? At the SISTER with the RED LIPSTICK !!
Anyway i am SURE If you are Reading this Post … David….Your MOST HOLINESS that you could CORRECT ?? Me if I am Wrong !!!
I BET David SPLANE Likes doing ‘ A BIT of CO- ERECTION !!!!
Please Accept my HUMBLEST APOLIGIES , but my SPELLING & PUNCTUATION Needs to be WORKED ON …. I must get some Advice from the Theocratic Ministry School Overseer!!
Have you also noticed how they give more camera time to the men than women in those choir pieces? Or is that just me?
hahaha! :-) Pickled Brain your “Song of Gnashing” is bound to make more sense than the Revelation its Grand Climax at Hand! book that we used to have to study. ;-)
Thanks Pickled Brain…. Truer words were never spoken. We are stronger united and I am grateful for having this site here, to communicate.
Anyway, thanks for the support and good luck to you too. :)
The watchtower is so messed up with women’s rights they wouldn’t even let sisters count the money in the donation box. These sisters were professional full time bank tellers that could count the donations and sort them in 15 minutes flat. But the “elders” decided that this was inappropriate for sisters to do, so they stepped in and fumbled through the same job in over an hour. It makes absolutely no sense, that and wearing a headdress if you lead a bible study with a baptized brother present. Even if the brother is family, if he’s baptized and in the same house at the time of the study, a headdress or hat is mandatory. Just stupid and crazy stuff on the watchtower’s part.
J*L*C*R, don’t be put off by Lloyd’s comments to you. I think we were all a bit put off by your initial comments about Brie because you started off by says “if” she was a Witness all those years so you started off your comment by calling into question her truthfulness, which is what any JW apologist would do and then you said when she said Jehovah Witness instead of Jehovah’s Witness, it raised “red flags” to you which also implied she was lying. Then you ended it by saying that it was “troubling to you”. All those comments were calling into question the validity of Brie’s life story.
I was hoping that Lloyd would comment and I was glad he did and I thought his comment were quite nice considering how incendiary and suspicious that Brie was telling the truth about her life in the Watchtower, your initial comments seemed to be.
After explaining that you were just playing devils advocate, your comments seemed less like a Watchtower apologist and more understandable.
I have also had some of my comments not published because maybe I came off somewhat like your comment and being critical which is not helpful to our cause of bringing the Watchtower’s lies out in the open for all to see.
If you go to Youtube and go to Brie’s youtube video, there is a link you can read about her life story that explains a lot about how terribly her and her mother have been treated and you would understand why she isn’t going to give the Watchtower any respect by saying Jehovah’s Witnesses and instead says “Jehovah Witnesses”.
RE: comments not published
It may not be censorship, I think the web site software sometimes loses them. It’s happened to me.
“This woman is disgusting and ugly on the inside. How shocking to use half-truths to mislead and manipulate unsuspecting school pupils to avoid learning the wonderful truths in God’s Word. But rejoice not O you apostates! Righthearted ones will surely be moved by God’s spirit to overcome these lies and come to know His Organization. To you we say: Repent and Return to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls!”
Who Shall Go When God’s Kingdom Comes?, it seems to me that you’re so used to the Governing Body speaking on your behalf that you’ve become like the puppet on a ventriloquist’s hand. Do yourself a favour and start learning the truth about the “truth” – it might actually set you free!
“If she has been in it so long… how come she makes the mistake of constantly calling them “Jehovah Witness” when it’s “Jehovah’S Witnesses” ”
J*L*C*R, I watched the first few minutes of the video and noticed that she does initially use “Jehovah’s Witnesses” and then it became “Jehovah Witness”. It does sound a bit odd coming from someone who has been one, but I then thought that it was probably an unconscious ‘mirroring’ to connect to her classmates.(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirroring_(psychology) Most people (and probably her classmates) call them ‘Jehovah Witnesses’, not ‘Jehovah’s Witnesses’.
Honestly I found Brie’s video full of silly , and embarrassing moments of sending a picture to boy of her and a friend in a bikini . So the boy got the pics on cell , so his mom caught him masturbating to them ,so the boys mom reports Brie to the “elders” seems a bit out of character for a mother , but if Brie sent those pictures to that boy , seems a bit odd that she
would get DF for doing that . You might say that
Brie’s mother should have gotten involved since she
is “underage”. Forgive me Ceders , but this is stupid .
@Ken, that’s what this religion diminishes people to. I have friends who are mothers of daughters of the same age & I can tell you it all sounded so silly at the time listening to their stories but that’s what this religion does to people. You start to lose your own assuredness.
Ken, you really should watch the video before commenting.
@Charles Costante
Interesting possibility – unconscious mirroring by Brie of her classmates vocabulary – a well known neurologically programmed behaviour as the link showed. They would more likely know the cult members as Jehovah Witnesses.
Also it could be a conscious courtesy to her audience – using the term Brie knows they use for this group. It’s like when I go the the USA (from the UK) I will refer to the “trunk” rather than the “boot” of a car. Or to adjust for the different pronunciation of tomato, potato and garage in American English.
None of this makes any difference to the content and effective delivery of her talk – and its brilliantly successful publicising of the dark side if this cult.
SwimmingWild
J*L*C*R*:
I think the primary objective was to come to Brie’s defense and not to insult you. You must understand there are regulars on this forum who have distinct personalities. Please get to know them and understand their voices. They all have something to offer as I think you do as well. I can understand how passionate you are about your views. I don’t doubt for a minute that the regulars here would come to your defense if it was required.
The JW’s left me w/ the sense of “it’s me or them”. If they don’t agree w/ me, they must be against me. That is just not true. I have to fight it every day. Coming to this website has helped me understand that we might disagree on the little things but we are united where it counts.
I appreciate what Brie did regardless of the wording. I don’t want to take the attention away from this milestone with what might appear to outsiders as petty infighting. She is very young to have taken on this responsibility and I think the attention and focus needs to be on what she did accomplish. There are so many positives about what this young woman did. I would love to hear followups from her. I don’t want to squelch her creativity because we circled all the errors in red ink and sent the piece back to her. I would love to see her contribute articles on this website w/ Cedars. She is just starting her escape from the JW’s. We all know how difficult that is. It would be so exciting to have her check in and tell us her progress.
Congratulations on leaving the JW’s with your family intact. That is a milestone on it’s own merit. Many of us have not been so lucky and are still struggling to cope with life w/o any family.
I think we all need a reminder that it takes a while to shake the “JW” out of our heads.
Thanks for the kind words, Shanti! It’s a struggle for us all and I hope to get to know the regulars here in time. Thanks again.
J*L*C*R, you told Pickled you “except” his apology.
I know what you meant. But as you demonstrate, not everyone is 100% precise in their speech or writing. I have heard experienced JWs say “Jehovah Witness” when asked about their religion. Some, as you say, like to be precise. But others, not so much.
If we understand what people mean, that’s the important thing.
My reply to J*L*C*R appears BEFORE his post. Weird. Maybe a web site software bug I guess.
Gnashing said:
“TRUTH OF GOD’S GLORIOUS ORGANIZATION WILL SHINE THROUGH!!”
I trust it will. But the evidence I’ve examined convinces me WT is not it.
The GB says “WE ARE THE FAITHFUL AND DISCREET SLAVE!”
Any slave claiming that title for himself, is presumptuous. Only the master, Jesus, can decide which slaves to reward. And Jesus has not done so yet.
That false claim makes it obvious: the WT is not God’s organization, it is not God’s channel of communication.
The self-appointed Governing Body, which claims to be the faithful slave class, has assured us that jesus will indeed reward them when they are appointed over all the Master’s belongings! Here is the official prophesy:
“When Jesus comes for judgment during the great tribulation, he will find that the faithful slave has been loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics. Jesus will then delight in making the second appointment — over all his belongings.” (Watchtower July 15, 2013 study edition p.25 par.18).
The Governing Body has made Jesus’ decision for him and even described his mood as being one of delight.
If “loyally dispensing timely spiritual food to the domestics” includes the Governing Body’s history of publishing constantly-changing scriptural interpretations, making endless false prophesies and lying about Watchtower history, this prophesy will indeed come true.
Something may be buggy on this site, my posts are not appearing in the order I thought I posted them.
Finn (and others) – If you take a second look at the way the comments are arranged you may notice that when someone responds to an earlier comment, that response is filed beneath the original to keep the sequence in place. Some comments will have a larger response than others and so the thread will have a jump between dates. That is the option we have chosen. Otherwise, someone replies to an earlier comment but the context is lost.
Many comments are held for review because (a) they include words or phrases that might be considered obscene or have used words that may sound like a sales pitch. We get tons of that sort. (b) The writer includes one or more links within the comment. If the link goes to a spammy site or has spammy words included in the domain name [SEO, lowcost, free, buy, etc.] or they are repeated within the text, the comment will be held for review. (c) One of the administrators notices that the comment is off topic or violates one or more of the guidelines. Later comments may go through – leaving the poster to wonder why one was missing, and another was posted.
More often than not, an article like this one about Brie will draw a lot of comments and will quickly load up our review cache. Cedars and his regular crew try to keep up. Occasionally, being the webmaster, I will jump in and release or remove a ton of old comments just to help the system run more efficiently. There are some comments that are right on the line as to whether they should be approved or not – and we all try to take a liberal approach to them. But some are just a bit over the top, off subject, too adult for adults, or just a waste of Internet ink and add nothing to the thread.
I hope this gives you a general idea about what goes on in the background. Maybe by reading this comment, anyone who has not seen their comment appear within a few days send an email to contact@jwsurvey and address it to “Webmaster” – I’ll take a look at your problem to make sure it is not a glitch in the system. I’ll try to let you know why your comment was automatically
held for review. I can assure everyone that comments are appreciated – even those that are somewhat negative. So just give us a clue that you feel there is a problem and we’ll take a look.
I agree with JLCR and M Saurus,
I think the pronunciation thing was a little strange. It made me question how recently or closely she was involved with the JWs. But she seems to fear disfellowshipping so she must be baptized. On another point: I don’t mean to discount Brie’s story, but I also don’t think it is wrong to question her credibility. It is what we should do, whether or not the comments are for or against Watchtower. The anecdotes she related, while heart-breaking and powerful, are unsupported. There is nothing wrong with doubting their veracity. Whenever Anthony Morris lobs one of his ridiculous anecdotes our way and expects us to take it on faith we immediately suspect it is a lie. If Cedars relied on 2nd or 3rd person anecdotes I would question his credibility as well. I’m not saying the stories are worthless and I don’t think Brie was lying. But I’m not going to buy into it lock stock and barrel just because the information originates with a well-meaning, innocent person. Brie, if you’re reading this it is not a criticism of you, just a statement of how I feel a critical thinker should process information. If others find it valuable (and obviously like 600,000 do!) I’ll not criticize them.
@Finn Sawyer
You worded that absolutely perfectly. Thank you. :)
Just one week ago, Brie posted her video and it’s over 600,000 views and still going.
With all the tall tales that the Governing Body come up with in their talks, I don’t think any one of Jehovah’s Witnesses should call into question whether or not all of Brie’s experiences were completely true or not. She was repeating what others told her and she believed them and since we weren’t there living those experiences like what those sisters went though, we have no reason to doubt that they were not true stories.
We know that when she described the disfellowshipping policy for ones who try and walk away from the religion when they find out about the lies and corruption within the Organization, there is no untruth about that and that was a very powerful part of the speech, along with how terribly kids and women are treated.
From her speech, we also got to know how much pain and suffering a child must feel to imagine their own father being killed at Armageddon and so why it was so difficult for kids to make friends at school because of that, knowing that they’d all be killed at Armageddon and turned into bird food.
What her speech did was to demonstrate the anguish that every child must feel who are one of Jehovah’s Witnesses with the constant fear of the War of Armageddon that is drummed into their heads each and every day of their lives. That is child abuse!!!
@Swallowtail. Just to add to my last comment .As The ‘Apostate Gnashing of Teeth ‘Post is a diehard JW …, He or she will probably NOT have a sense of humour so the best way to beat their bilge is with Humour!!! It CONFUSES THEM … As the Elders never have a Sense of Humour when I’ve been Counseled publicly in the Watchtower for my COMMENTS !! Quite a few Sisters are Catching on to what I am Subtley doing by giving me BIG SMILES at the End of the MEETING & Saying ‘I Really Enjoyed your comments ! I know there are others in my Kingdom Hall who don’t believe a word what the GB NEW LIGHT IS , But they are TRAPPED because of FAMILY MEMBERS who Have BLIND LOYALTY to the GB & have left their Brains at Home!
This is WHAT is SO EVIL about the GB with their SHUNNING Policies , but it WILL BACKFIRE because the GB may Stop people leaving the Organistion because of Attachment to family members, BUT I Guarantee you that HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS have LEFT the ORGANISATION MENTALLY & think NEW LIGHT CONCEPT is BANANAS!!!
“I don’t mean to discount Brie’s story, but I also don’t think it is wrong to question her credibility. It is what we should do, whether or not the comments are for or against Watchtower. The anecdotes she related, while heart-breaking and powerful, are unsupported. There is nothing wrong with doubting their veracity. Whenever Anthony Morris lobs one of his ridiculous anecdotes our way and expects us to take it on faith we immediately suspect it is a lie. If Cedars relied on 2nd or 3rd person anecdotes I would question his credibility as well. I’m not saying the stories are worthless and I don’t think Brie was lying. But I’m not going to buy into it lock stock and barrel just because the information originates with a well-meaning, innocent person.”
I couldn’t agree with you more, Finn! When at the age of twenty five I came to the realisation that what I had believed fervently to be the “truth” since I was toddler was a load of nonsense, I made the decision to question everything I had ever taken for granted and would continue to do so from then on. I even question “scientific fact” which some may consider a bit extreme, but I say, “once bitten, twice shy”.
“Seriously, Lloyd. For someone I look up to as a man for free thinking and not taking things at face value, you insult me?”
J*L*C*R, I would have been very upset if Lloyd had made those comments to me, so I understand how you feel. He can come across as arrogant and is often sarcastic and quite defensive when contradicted, things I try and ignore only because he’s so brilliant at exposing this insidious cult. Please don’t stop posting – your posts are well thought out (unlike Watchtower doctrine) and intelligently written and I for one am glad you brought up the issue you did (I only watched a few minutes of the YouTube clip and I knew there was something that didn’t feel quite right. It was only when you brought it up that the penny dropped).
Charles Constante…
“J*L*C*R, I would have been very upset if Lloyd had made those comments to me, so I understand how you feel. He can come across as arrogant and is often sarcastic and quite defensive when contradicted…”
I feel like I’ve slipped into an alternate reality where the most innocent, innocuous reply can be interpreted as a scathing insult.
Let’s recap… I told J*L*C*R he was “easily troubled” by Brie’s use of the phrase “Jehovah Witnesses” rather than “Jehovah’s Witnesses.”
When J*L*C*R said he felt insulted by my “easily troubled” comment, I told him he was “easily insulted.”
Am I missing something? Where are the upsetting comments I am alleged to have made?
Lloyd, you are very sensitive about any criticism directed at you but you don’t seem to show the same sensitivity with others. The fact of the matter is that J*L*C*R was upset by the comment you made and so would I if it had been directed at me. Maybe we’re both oversensitive! As I said earlier, you’re brilliant at what you do and that’s really what’s important.
Thank you Charles, but though I hate to press you on this, are you able to explain to me precisely what about my two brief comments to J*L*C*R was so upsetting?
I plead guilty as charged to not pulling punches and taking no prisoners with my comments both here and on YouTube. I am a writer and activist, not a politician. I am looking to get my point across, not win a popularity contest. If someone writes something that is silly, I will tell them so. But I can’t help but scratch my head that anything in my “easily troubled” and “easily insulted” comments to J*L*C*R could be a genuine cause of upset to an adult with standard comprehension skills.
Lloyd, to tell someone that he is “easily insulted” is a criticism in anyone’s book. It may be like water off a duck’s back to some but others take those sorts of comments to heart. We’re all different – what more can I say! I thought J*L*C*R brought up a very valid point because it’s the sort of thing that JW apologists will latch onto to try and discredit what Brie had to say. It’s now been thrashed out and hopefully put to rest.
I’ll say again that I think you’re doing an amazing job of discrediting the Watchtower. I wish I had your skill of communication (I also wish I knew how to use emoticons on this site – I’m not very literate when it comes to computers).
“Lloyd, to tell someone that he is ‘easily insulted’ is a criticism in anyone’s book.”
A criticism can be justified or unjustified. If my ‘crime’ was that of criticizing J*L*C*R, then J*L*C*R is guilty of the same crime towards Brie, whether his criticism was justified or not.
I would actually say my “easily troubled” comment was more of an observation than a criticism, but even if you categorize it as criticism it can’t by any reasonable stretch be deemed “upsetting” unless getting upset is your default reaction to any kind of criticism, no matter how mild.
Lloyd, (my comment is long but please read all of it)
This is how myself and others took your comment.
“easily troubled’= someone who gets troubled over the most minor things.
“easily insulted”= implies being a prima-dona.
“But I can’t help but scratch my head that anything in my “easily troubled” and “easily insulted” comments to J*L*C*R could be a genuine cause of upset to an ADULT WITH STANDARD COMPREHENSION SKILLS.
An Adult With Standard Comprehension Skills= You are implying that due to my (and others) interpretation of the facts I am either an (a) immature individual and therefore lacking in standard comprehension skills; or (b) I am an adult with some form of metal handicap. (That strikes a nerve because we both know who else says such things)
Either way my point was this…I have not seen this young woman’s sources and due to this lack of evidence; I refuse to take HER WORD at face value. I just left a religion that encouraged me to just accept things on blind faith..I WILL NEVER DO THAT AGAIN. I WILL NEVER BE A VICTIM EVER AGAIN.
What’s the difference between Lett giving a speech with unsubstantiated claims and a teary eyed young girl giving one…other than the subject matter and physical appearances? To me when I hear an argument, I need to examine just the facts presented and leave bias out of it.
A statement without proof no matter who it comes from, I don’t care if Ghandi made one, it’s still unsubstantiated.
Your comments carry more weight than anyone else’s because I look up to you. How would you like it if your hero implied your someone who takes things too literally.When you idolize them for examining everything before accepting them as truth.
Coming from anyone else I would have ignored them, but I hold you to a higher standard, Lloyd.
We all better hope this doesn’t turn out to be a hoax; or we will be eating crow for life. Until I see the facts for myself, I will not stake my reputation on ANYTHING…or ANYONE. I did that for the Governing Body once on just BLIND FAITH and I WILL NEVER do anything like that EVER AGAIN.
I find it absolutely astonishing that comments such as “you’re easily troubled” or “you’re easily offended” can be interpreted as insults or causes for offense by anyone – and may I take this opportunity, J*L*C*R, to note that you were rightly apologetic and acknowledging your readiness to be offended before Mr Constante came riding in with his rebuke.
I find it equally baffling that my paint-by-numbers explanation of why “you’re easily troubled” and “you’re easily insulted” are not insults or legitimate reasons for upset is now being re-examined with a verbose admonishment by a poster who was so recently ready to forget it all, and who now insinuates that I am victimizing him and accusing him of being immature and mentally retarded.
I appeal to all reasonable-minded visitors to adjudicate – have I done anything to justify any of these protests against my two three-word comments, or have I drifted into an alternate dimension where “you’re easily troubled/insulted” are scathing acts of humiliation that merit strong admonition and an apology?
Cedars, since you asked for another opinion–I thought your comments were insulting. Where I come from, if you tell a person they are “easily offended” or “easily insulted” it implies they are weak-minded, without back-bone. They aren’t tough enough to deal with reality. That’s the implication. Whether or not that is true is beside the point, obviously no one wants to be thought of as having a weak mind. Indeed, whenever I have referred to someone in the congregation as “easily stumbled” it was meant as an insult. That’s my take.
Thanks Finn, that’s one opinion – hopefully not the final verdict (unless I really have fallen into an alternate universe where the slightest contradiction is viewed as a scathing attack).
Given the fact that there are already two people who think “You’re easily troubled” and “You’re easily insulted” are hurtful, upsetting and offensive comments, it doesn’t surprise me that there can be a third visitor to this site with a tenuous grasp on the definition of “insult.” I dare say there are more, but in a way I’m pleased to be able to put a name to you all.
Hi Lloyd. I also commented but it got mixed in the middle of all the comments as I wanted to put my two cents worth in on the discussion. Thanks
Thanks anonymous. This isn’t the first time people have emerged from nowhere to whip up a storm in a teacup on JWsurvey. I’m keeping tabs on the situation, and so far I’m unimpressed by one poster’s talmudic fixation with correcting Brie’s terminology, followed by his enthusiasm to find offense in my completely innocuous comments, followed by the u-turn on his apology prompted only by another poster riding to his rescue. Classic apologist behavior, if it’s not too insulting for me to say.
I think if a person can dish it out, they should be able to take it too.
I can’t argue with you there. J*L*C*R seems to want the luxury, indeed demand the luxury, of being able to discredit what others say while having his own opinions held as sacrosanct.
Cedars
I think you may be easily offended and may have a tenuous grasp of what constitutes insulting language. I’m going to remember that about you.
Can you take what you dish out?
Finn “Can you take what you dish out?”
Can I take being told “you’re easily troubled” and “you’re easily offended” without writing voluminous replies stating how offended I am?
Yes, very easily – because neither of those statements are insults.
@Finn, did you go back and read J*L*C*R’s initial comments about Brie’s speech? Just because this person doesn’t trust anybody anymore, doesn’t mean that he had to imply that Brie’s speech was all lies. It was really insulting to her. Why is it okay for this person to insult that young girl like that just because he doesn’t trust people anymore?
J*L*C*R says that you can’t believe every story so that should go for J*L*C*R as well. Why should he be believed anymore than Brie should not be believed? Why is it okay for him to do that to Brie and not take the same treatment?
When I saw Brie’s speech for the first time, I couldn’t believe what a powerful witness it was for not getting involved in the JW religion. I was blown away by her speech and so were hundreds of thousands of others. Any speech calling into question her honesty has to be just plan jealousy and nothing else. It was calling attention to themselves and taking away the attention where it belongs on the courage of that young girl.
If there is such a thing as a David and Goliath story where this young lady brings down the Society, it is this video and I am rooting for her to win and she needs all of our support. She doesn’t need any detractors.
I’m just mirroring Lloyd’s comments to myself and others. I’m not worried he’ll be offended, since he doesn’t regard them as insults. With regard to Brie’s video, please see my earlier post on Brie’s video. I’m not impressed and I’m not going to apologize for that simply to fit in with the majority.
You know, I appreciate what Lloyd has created here. Sometimes I really like this forum, but today is not one of those days. I apologize if I have contributed to that feeling for any others.
Lloyd,
As Thomas Mann said, everything is politics!
You have decided to run a blog and make videos. You have decided to engage with the public about these issues.
You have a lot of people visiting and commenting on this site, many of whom have been badly scarred through their dealings with the WTBTS.
To be met by your often blunt (not rude) comments can be a further kick in the teeth for these unfortunate people.
If you want to be considered an expert in cult mind control, and play a leading part in exposing the WTBTS’ many abuses, you are going to have to learn to be diplomatic in your comments.
You cannot assume that, because you are not offended by plain speaking, that others will not be.
As a fellow atheist, we may not like having bible verses quoted at us, but one comes to mind.
Speak consolingly to the depressed souls.
I can’t remember where that is in the bible, but it’s good advice for all of us.
I think that you are a good man, and that your site and videos are excellent. But sometimes you can inadvertently upset people with your less than diplomatic language.
This is especially the case when people look up to you, and so your words carry more weight than others.
See this as a positive thing, Lloyd. You are helping a lot of people and those people have been hurt badly by uncaring cultists.
Please try to think how you would feel when you were just waking up if someone spoke to you the way you talk to people.
If you want to progress in your activism, then inevitably you will have to become involved in politics. Politicians will have to either see that existing laws are properly applied, or make fresh legislation to counter the WTBTS.
I, too, can be less than diplomatic on occasion. I have to re read my comments, and edit them before I post them.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Saying that somebody is “easily troubled” or saying that somebody is “easily insulted” is nothing in comparison to saying that a young girl’s speech is nothing but lies. Now there’s a real insult. Lloyd is completely right in what he said. Sometimes the truth hurts.
Once upon a time someone told me to always ask questions but refused me to question him.
Ref: Bible teach chap 1 par 1-5.
How is that called in English? double standards?
What would that make the GB.
I read all the comments with great interest.You see this open honest debate would not be allowed in the Org, indeed some would probably be marked, reproved and even removed…Remember please though that we are all human and do make mistakes, so let’s not get to distracted about what Brie, may or may not have said…Let us not be overly critical, just try to put ourselves in this poor girls’ shoes and think about how much bravery it must of took….Hopefully we’re all on this site for the same reason.To expose this lying, greedy, Cult and help others to break free….Shalom
Dear Brie, you and your mother are truly an inspiration to anyone who has the courage to stand up to the Society and this song is for you and your mom and every young person coming onto this web site.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=RRFFzavRLP0
In the 50s there was a sister in our cong, who served in place
of a ministerial servant. She also sat in on the COs meetings
and he made no bones about saying she was the best servant
among us. She “Manned” the literature counter.
Of course the line was drawn against making her appointment
official. And as soon as some brothers field service reports
contained the required quotas, she was removed, and he was
given her position. The patriarchal sexist mentality prevailed
That lady qualified in an exemplary way and filled all the
requirements save one, — She wasn’t a man!
In the workplace today that situation would not be tolerated
and would result in expensive litigation if practiced.
Only in extremist, fundamental religions do these backward
ideas persist.
@Ted
My grandmother was one of the servants in the 40’s or 50’s. When she was alive, she retained more knowledge of the Bible and history than any male I ever knew in our hall. As a kid I remember hearing that she was counseled on more than one occasion for following up the brother’s comments with correcting comments at the Watchtower study. Never rebelled and left outright though. Wish she had.
@ Finn Sawyer.
Ladies like your Grandma, were the backbone of the cong,
and I’m sure they still are. I always thought the sisters were
more spiritual.
Your Grandma correcting the Brothers made me smile.
In one of the local Congs, there was an old “Remnant Bro,
and during the public talk, if he disagreed with something
he would let you know. He would shake his head and could
be heard telling those around him what the right interpretation
was. To say it was disconcerting is putting it mildly.
When he died I helped clear out his house. His stuff was sold
and the money sent to the Org, that he had devoted his life to.
A waste on both counts, and sad.
Nice to hear your experience, thanks for sharing.
@J*L*C*R, Lloyd’s comment was a whole lot nicer than the one that I wanted to leave for you. Everything in your first comment was saying that Brie was making up the whole thing. This is how you started out:
“If” she has been in it so long…how come she makes the mistake of “constantly” (She didn’t CONSTANTLY say Jehovah Witnesses like you said) calling them “Jehovah Witnesses” when it’s “Jehovah’s Witnesses” (PLURAL). Being a born and raised witness (This should have been a Capital W at the front of Witness as long as you are being so nit-picky) because the word Witness is a PROPER NOUN WHICH YOU EVIDENTLY DIDN’T REALIZE AND SHOULD HAVE KNOWN IF YOU REALLY WERE A WITNESS SUCH A LONG TIME AS YOU CLAIM), disfellowshipped or otherwise, should know how to properly pronounce their old religion, particularly one so affected as Brie. This is how I would determine if someone was truthful or not…(IF again) if they trip up over the important small details should this affect their credibility? I believe her, but man that just troubles me.”
Everything in your first comment was calling Brie a liar and it was very insulting to her. We didn’t hear the experiences of the 3 women in the first person that she talked about but everything else she said is Watchtower policy and IF YOU HAD BEEN A WITNESS SUCH A LONG TIME AS YOU CLAIM, YOU WOULD KNOW THAT. When it comes to the women’s stories, there are plenty of experiences on Youtube to confirm that these things happen to women over and over again in the “truth” and if you have really woken up like you say, then you would know that those experiences are believable.
I for one thought that Lloyd’s comment was a whole lot nicer than how your entire comment was calling into question Brie’s truthfulness and I was glad he said something to you because I thought your comment was really insulting to this young girl that took tons of courage to do what she did. Did you ever do anything to even compare?????
In my first comment to you, I was holding back because I wanted to reply just as Pickled Brain did but I wanted to give you the benefit of a doubt.
This is how you could have worded that comment of yours if you had doubts like you did and if you really did “believe” her like you claimed:
I loved her speech but Watchtower apologists will pick on it because she said “Jehovah Witnesses” instead of Jehovah’s Witnesses. (That would not have raised red flags to us like it did for me.
I had a hard time believing that you are a fader like you said because you sure sounded like a Watchtower apologist to me.)
@Anonymous, I wish I had you around me when I need some words of wisdom. You nailed it. It’s not the question that was raised it’s the way in which it was written. Great point. My husband always tells me that same thing when I’m wondering why I have offended someone. That there was nothing wrong with what I said it’s the way that I deliver it at times. It’s probably because of my upbringing. I came from a large family of girls & we just said things how we saw it, I’ve had to become more ‘politically correct’ with my approach to people because I realised that they had a different upbringing to me.
We can all come across the wrong way with words on a monitor, that’s why I think face to face contact is so much better when it comes to sorting out differences.
That’s where I admire Lloyd, he has put his face to his words. I hope that I can reach that point some day soon. I live in a very small community & I still have trouble going shopping & seeing Witnesses that I have known for last 20years & worry about the way that they view me. It’s pathetic but I’m trying to grow a spine & move to the next phase.
Also, that’s why Brie is viewed so highly by people like me. So young & yet in an age bracket where you’re so self-conscious about everything. She has made me want to be open to people in my area about where I stand on matters instead of curtailing to the WT. That’s what makes me angry at this religion because I never used to be like this.
Brie showed exceptional courage and intelligence in exposing the inner workings on being a JW youth.I meant to mention that earlier, but was caught up in all the flurry of comments. Isn’t it ironic that they train youths to be bold and courageous in the face of immense opposition only to have it backfire. I just love that…..
J*L*C*R you may not like some of the responses you got to your opinions but at least your opinions made it to the point where people could read them.
I wrote a medium length comment that never made it to the point where it could be read. I will submit this and see if this makes it. By the way my comment complied with Cedars posting rules.
Yew, the above comment made it. I wonder what happened to my other one. Did it somehow get lost in the system?
It was meant to say “yes” not “yew”. How come all these comments are making it but not my original one?
Apparently, (I must be going into an alternate reality like Lloyd) when someone takes the neutral ground and states the simple fact that if a person makes a series of statements without meeting the appropriate burdens of proof; then they are by immediate default Watchtower Apologists.
EXAMPLE
…well the watchtower says one thing and another individual says another, this person is against the Watchtower; therefore, the standards of proof don’t apply. Let’s all agree with what’s being said despite a lack of evidence to support the argument… just because the person goes against the Watchtower.
Dare say… if anyone does not want to take either extreme viewpoint but tries to calmly examine the facts in front of them, as the arguer presented them… while maintaining neutrality from their personal feelings AGAINST the Watchtower… they must be watchtower apologists.
To not immediately accept any argument that highlights the evilness of the Watchtower is folly. (NOTE: The watchtower is evil…they destroy lives and families but to accept every story that arises without looking at the facts presented is foolishness)
Is it me, or I am the only one person that recognizes the universal fact for all intelligentsia; the BURDEN OF PROOF lies with the person making the argument. Brie made a good speech but until concrete facts are presented, I am not willing to believe her. I am also not willing to believe the Watchtower and Governing Body when they present an argument without proof.
When we listen to a scientist present a new theory, we expect him to bring FACTS to the discussion; not second and third hand stories. It makes for a great story but I don’t base my opinions off other people’s opinions and stories. That’s all Jehovah’s Witnesses do, base their opinions off the Governing Body’s opinions. Since I left the Watchtower, I base my opinions on FACTS.
All I am saying…and I AM NOT AN APOLOGIST…. is to believe someone’s argument, when no solid proof or facts have been presented, (other than THEIR WORD) is no different than believing in something the Governing Body has said. Neither has presented Evidence.
Why should we not carry the same standards of scrutiny to every side that arises? Not just the ones we like or agree with the most?
It’s like saying “J*L*C*R says that he is staying neutral until more facts arise and in the mean time he is refusing to go to either extreme of the argument…he must be an apologist. Grab your torch and pitchforks and destroy his comments with fire!”
J*L*C*R, I don’t believe everything I hear or read either. If you are having a hard time thinking that such terrible abuse of women happens in the Society, Lloyd had 2 really good articles right on this web site under domestic abuse. Look on the right side near the top. One of the articles is called: Danmera Dinglebum Why did it take so long and the other article is called: Won Without a Word – At what Cost?
The Watchtower has had many many articles over the years about when a wife is being beaten that she is to be a “better wife” and then the man won’t beat on her. If you don’t believe it, you should go to those articles and read them first. Lloyd has many many places that you can go to Watchtower literature to back it up. Women have always been treated as “nothings” and you must be a man because if you were a woman, I think you would understand. It is hard for men to know what it feels like if it isn’t you being treated like a “nothing”.
When it comes to rape, there are multiple articles in the magazines and books and even the Young People Ask book that when someone is raped, that they will be called before a committee so that they can determine if it was fornication or not. There’s tons of articles on that too if you don’t believe it.
At least you came out and admitted you didn’t believe Brie. In your first comment, you said you did believe her, remember?
I do not believe Brie ONLY because there is not enough evidence to support what she has said in her argument.
I do believe in the Watchtower’s crimes against Women and the suppression of their rights. The reasons for this are two fold (1) I was born into a long line of JW’s my Grandmother became involved in 1939; both of my parents were Witnesses and raised me as one when I came along in 1993. I was then baptized in 2007 and have since become inactive. I know firsthand from myself and from my family; instances of physical, mental, and spiritual abuse on profound levels.
The second reason is because of the hard work Lloyd, and others have put forth in providing full proof articles on the topic. Just like the articles you have mentioned; ones with plenty of evidence to prove their point.
Just for the sake of clarity…the only reason I do not believe Brie, the person, is because I do not know her and therefore cannot simply take her word on something without proper documentation and/or proof to back up what she is saying.
I do believe in the Watchtower’s abuse on Women for previously stated reasons.
I hope this clears the water.
What parts of her speech did you not believe?
J*L*C*R – nobody is accusing you of being an apologist merely for questioning Brie’s story – at least I’m not.
The accusation arises from your insistence on repeatedly driving home your disapproval of Brie’s story with an almost evangelical enthusiasm rather than simply stating your case and leaving it there for the record. You further fit the mold of apologist by creating discord from nowhere by accusing me of being oppressive and insulting merely for disagreeing with you, and first apologizing for being so thin-skinned before picking up the gauntlet once more when another poster rallies to your side. This “stirring” behavior is precisely what apologists do. The most devout Jehovah’s Witness can justify saying bad things about Watchtower while hiding behind a pseudonym on the internet, so I’m afraid making token statements of solidarity with our cause doesn’t let you off the hook.
If you don’t want to be suspected of being an apologist, please try to refrain from stirring up trouble and recoiling with disgust at the mildest provocation. I’m afraid I will have to ask you to regard that as a final warning.
And I can’t help but notice the irony of you complaining about the lack of veracity of Brie’s anecdotal evidence while regaling us all with your own unverifiable stories of “physical, mental, and spiritual abuse on profound levels.” Again, it seems to be one rule for you, another for everyone else.
Last night I came to a realization that I would like to share with all of you.
Since Lloyd first posted this article and my subsequent comments, I have had so many sleepless nights. I couldn’t quite put a finger on what was bothering me but last night it hit me like a ton of bricks.
What bothered me so much about Brie’s story was the fact that it brought up so many memories and emotions that had long since been buried deep down.
My awakening from the Watchtower was a series of massive heartbreaking moments after the other. I have never experienced anything so traumatic in my entire life. It tore me down to my most exposed level of humanity and left me and my family with a feeling of abandonment and victimization.
Last night I faced all of these memories and as I think back; I feel as if a great weight has been lifted off of me.
Please understand that I was born and raised an ardent witness. Some of my earliest childhood memories are my family reading the “My Book of Bible Stories” I’m sure everyone remembers that hardback yellow book with the ruby red letters on the cover.
We all fervently believed in the paradise earth. Then to suddenly realize, what you’ve grown up with is a massive lie and a cult as well. It was awful.
I’m not ashamed to say this….
Last night I cried for myself, my parents, the promises and trust that was broken. Then I just cried.
One things I want to say is that this site has helped me in so many ways. The articles woke me up and now the comments section has allowed me to overcome a great crucible and become a better person as I finally put my past behind me.
I would like to thank the following for their helpful debates, kind words of encouragement and their frankness.
Anonymous
Pickled Brain
Grace
Lloyd Evans
I would like to apologize to you, Lloyd. I am sure you noticed my conflict with my comments. Please know that they came from a young man who was struggling to address what really bothered him. You can say my awakening process has left me damaged goods…I don’t know what to believe in anymore. I’m just not strong enough to go through anything like that a second time.
Most of all I would like to thank and apologize to Brie. If Brie is listening, please know that you helped a young man leave a self destructive path that would have left me going to a dark place of depression and worse.
Thank you all! I am sorry I made such a horse’s tail out of myself during this whole transition…just know that now I think I am a better person for it. Please accept my sincerest apologies and know that each of you have helped me take another step forward in healing.
Apology accepted. I hope you’re feeling more settled soon.
Thank you, Lloyd. :)
J*L*C*R, I want to reach out through cyber space and give you a big hug!
Waking up from this cult is like going through the mourning of the the death of everything that was dear to us. If you have ever lost a cherished pet or a loved one, it is hard to live through that and losing your entire support system or “family” in the “truth”, is even worse than that. All we can do is be glad that we finally found out the real truth about the truth and didn’t die in the religion, like countless millions of people have already done.
Last year and the year before I also had a terrible experience in what I thought was the “truth” and in a way I am glad that it happened because it helped me to wake up or else I’d still be living in the Watchtower bubble. It was a hard pill to swallow that all the “love” that I thought I had was “nothing” as Brie said in her speech but I am actually happier than I ever was when I was going to meetings and in service and I think I knew in my heart of hearts that all the love in the Organization is conditional and I think I am worth more than that and so are you. We are all worth real friends, not fake friends that only “love” us if we jump through all the hoops to be “good enough for them”.
You can be so glad you didn’t waste your entire life in the religion like so many of us have done.
Be glad about that!!!
Thank you so much, anonymous! Your kind words of support really mean a lot to me. Thank you.
It’s nice to know that there are others who know what it’s like.
:)
Hang in there J*L*C*R, it gets better. We are all here to support each other. I don’t know how to make a smiley face but I am sending you a smiley face too!
Your words ring true to all former jw cult members. I lost over 30 years of my life to flim-flam men of the Tower.
I have been out for more than 30 years but the scars still fester. We do feel your pain.
Somehow I believe that when Brie reads your comments….all will be well and good. Thanks for expressions from the heart…
JLCR,
Sir/Madam,
You do realise that this was a school assignment, don’t you?
Did you expect her to have court documents, or witness statements? This was not originally conceived of as a video.
This young lady was obviously upset, and so she fumbled the name of the religion, big deal!
Folks,
May I suggest to all of us to read our comments back BEFORE we post them? We need to think of how our words are going to be read by other people.
Lloyd does a great line in passive aggressive put downs. It’s part of his Northern heritage. It has ruffled quite a few feathers, but he does not deserve some of the vitriol that he has received.
Anything can be taken as an insult by somebody. Lloyd is not rude, he is merely sometimes brutally frank!
I hope that we can all learn to treat others with courtesy and try to all get along.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Think maybe Gnashing did his job? A true hit and run hijacking of Brie’s thread.
He is the one that is laughing. Sorry Brie.
I am currently watching in the US a series on the Amish.
the shunning factor is too similar to the Jws. I think you
People are arguing over semantics that amount to nothing
But let us get back to the seriousness of family break-ups
And the pain of women who are treated like chattel. The
Loss of friends because of rules and regulations that amount to nothing. I Personally have a life in dreams only
And that is pathetic. I still love the friends I left behind,
But cannot allow myself to go back.
“…………. before Mr Constante came riding in with his rebuke”
“…… another poster riding to his rescue.”
Not only has my name changed from ‘Charles’ to ‘Mr Constante’, but I appear to have learned equestrianism overnight. All while I was sleeping!!!
Lloyd, when I first starting reading this blog I cringed at some of the responses you made to “real” apologists. They were simply rude and arrogant (I don’t think that many of them deserved it – they are brainwashed like you and I were), but I got over it because I thought you were doing an amazing job of exposing this cult. I respect you for that. You say that you’re not a politician and not here to win a popularity contest, but when you’re dealing with other people a bit of sensitivity wouldn’t go astray. I just want to say that I won’t be posting anymore but will continue to read your articles with interest. Good luck with your mission.
Thank you for your continued endorsement of my activism Charles. However, it seems beyond your comprehension that you are just as capable of making ill-advised comments and backing the wrong horse as anyone else, including me. I also can’t help but notice your willingness to quote me when I DO say something remotely incriminating, when curiously you weren’t so quick to quote me when you first began accusing me of being insulting merely for saying “You’re easily troubled” and “You’re easily insulted.”
Perhaps the administrator of this site would be so kind as to place comments in chronological order?
There are discussions going on about posts that no longer appear. Time stamps that do not reflect real time responses.
I hope Brie can overlook all this display of egotism and childish bickering, she did not deserve the above.
Hello Danman
Unfortunately the webmaster and I have busy lives outside of our activism, and the time to sort all the comments into chronological order where this doesn’t occur by default is a luxury neither of us have. I can only ask that you make the best of the situation, bearing in mind that this is a blog that people feel inclined to use as a discussion forum rather than vice versa.
Thank you in advance for your patience and understanding.
Lloyd
A fluke is a fluke…no worries.
Seems as though any comments section directly following a ‘blog article’, by their very nature, should be presented in a chronological format, thus helping to reduce what has transpired here on your excellent ‘blog’ account of Brie’s triumph.
Maybe your default button needs a bit of tweaking? If not just ignore my ‘comment’. Thanks for responding.
Sorry for what she went through, but how long could she have been a Jehovah’s Witness and seen these things, if she can’t even pronounce it right? Not “Jehovah Witness” (said several times)
[Evangelical comment removed, see posting guidelines]
To state that you believe a persons statement. Then in the
very next breath to claim you’re “Troubled” ,on some basis,
about the validity of their statement, is plainly contradictory.
It sound like, ( and I put it no stronger than that.). Someone
who mischievously tries to sully another persons reputation
by an oblique inference. A circumstance. I’m sure we’ve
all encountered many times.
We all have a right to doubt and to question, and it’s sound
practice to do so. But I think we need more than supposition,
that’s based on the flimsiest of reasons, before we cast
suspicion on another persons character.
Brie’s video seems absolutely authentic, to me. Obviously
for certain reasons it’s not wise to to give names and addresses.
And where the WTS, is concerned, documentary evidence,
is almost impossible , even for the law courts to get.
The experiences she relates, as to how some sisters were dealt
with. Accords well with how some body’s of elders would apply
the instructions in the “Shepherding the Flock of God” book.
Brie lifted my spirits, and it makes me sad to see doubts cast
on her integrity. By hairsplitting and unnecessary comments.
Anyone have the current youtube view count?
Well I just want to add to the earlier discussion. Brie did indeed use the word Jehovah Witness, and also she uses the word church. But I tell you what……….she really did the organisation down. I think anyone watching that video, will not be left in the slightest doubt, that JW’s are truly conditioned, and not in a good way. I don’t think her use of acceptable words for her audience will detract from her message.
While we never referred to the KH as “church” within JW circles I would use that word in conversation for non-witnesses so they would understand what I was referring to. It was just so much easier to say “church” than have to explain why our weird religion demonizes words like church and insists on bizarre nomenclature. I think it made sense for Brie to use it, if she had used KH it would have distracted the audience from her other message.