Rochelle Sevier never expected the treatment she received from her local congregation merely for asking the 'wrong' questions
Rochelle Sevier never expected the treatment she received from her local congregation merely for asking the ‘wrong’ questions

If you happen to be studying the bible with Jehovah’s Witnesses, you would be forgiven for assuming that your opinion counts for something, that you are free to scrutinize everything you are taught, and that no questions are considered off-limits.

This was exactly what Rochelle Sevier understood to be the case when she agreed to study the bible with a Witness lady from her local congregation in Salem, Massachusetts – home of the infamous witch trials of the late 17th Century.

Rochelle wasn’t a total stranger to Jehovah’s Witnesses. Born Jewish, her mother had started studying with the Witnesses when she was only five. “My mother would take my sister and I along with her to the meetings. I even attended an International Convention as a child,” she recalls.

But Rochelle lost interest and stopped attending meetings by the time she entered her teens. She credits her mother for not forcing the religion on her when she could see it wasn’t for her. This allowed her to explore her spirituality, including her Jewish roots.

“As an adult, I begin searching for some meaning to life. I attended weekly Torah studies, along with other Jewish co-workers, taught by an Orthodox Rabbi. After several years I went to several Jewish temples to embrace my heritage. Unfortunately, I did not feel fulfilled after attending these temples.”

Rochelle’s spiritual journey brought her back to the Witnesses in 2011. By this point her father, who had previously resisted involvement with the religion, had been studying for a few years. She decided to attend her first meeting as an adult and was soon overwhelmed by the affection and interest she received.

Rochelle agreed to a bible study with the wife of the Coordinator of the body of elders. Together they studied the book What Does the Bible Really Teach?

Jehovah's Witness conduct studies with interested ones using the "Bible Teach" book
Jehovah’s Witness conduct studies with interested ones using the “Bible Teach” book

“Due to my zeal, I was having two bible studies each week, along with attending meeting, assemblies, and conventions,” she explains. “Along the way I would meet other sisters in the congregation who would sit in on my studies. I became the ‘ideal bible student’ due to my inquisitive nature and my knowledge of the material being studied.”

Despite making progress, Rochelle’s “inquisitive nature” gradually surfaced, and she made occasional forays online to see what objective information she could find on the Witnesses.

This made her feel guilty to begin with, but she took her studies seriously and wanted to know if this was really ‘the truth’. “Every now and again I would come across a story that would make me think, particularly Barbara Anderson’s life story. I would put this information in the back of my mind.”

Questions lead to a scolding

Despite her early willingness to bury her doubts, by around the time of January 2014 Rochelle was resolved to do more digging, and go wherever the evidence took her no matter how uncomfortable.

Watchtower's nine-year secret affiliation with the United Nations highlights the organization's hypocrisy
Watchtower’s nine-year secret affiliation with the United Nations highlights the organization’s hypocrisy

“I came across a plethora of information that challenged the image the Watchtower was portraying. The first story I came across was how the Watchtower became an NGO member of the United Nations, the ‘wild beast’. Then I read the stories about how Watchtower was protecting pedophiles and allowing pedophiles to roam freely because of the two-witness rule.”

Disturbed by the information she was uncovering, Rochelle decided to do what any normal student of Jehovah’s Witnesses would do… she asked her teacher about it. But this didn’t turn out quite how she expected.

“My teacher would not address my questions. Her reaction was one of anger and disdain. She treated me like I had been caught with my hand in the cookie jar.”

But rather than convince her she had done something wrong, her teacher’s reaction only made Rochelle more resolved to uncover the real truth. With her mentor stubbornly refusing to give her the answers she craved, she returned to the internet and continued to be appalled by what she was uncovering.

Ending the study

It was around this time that Rochelle’s father was preparing for his baptism, and she couldn’t help but share her discoveries with her parents in the hopes of averting what she now realized was a terrible decision.

“I was hoping that I could wake them up and stop my father’s baptism, especially after I learned that they changed the baptism questions. I realized my father wasn’t getting baptized in the name of Jesus, the holy spirit, and God, but in the name of an organization.”

To her dismay, the baptism went ahead anyway. Rochelle decided not to attend, but her father later told her that he had approached one of the local elders during the event about her issues, asking if he could arrange to meet with her. “The elder said he needed to speak with the other elders first and he would get back to my father. The following day he told my father he couldn’t speak to me but didn’t give a reason why.”

Amid such indifference to her genuine concerns, Rochelle terminated her bible study. She also stopped attending meetings. But it wasn’t long before her former mentor began trying to make inroads again.

“Over the course of time, my teacher would text me or send cards telling me she was thinking of me. I initially did not know if or how I should respond to her because I was angry and hurt at the way she had brushed off my questions. I finally told her how I felt, and she said she never meant to hurt me but had to protect her relationship with Jehovah, and this was the reason why she could not address my questions.”

The forbidden text message

More time passed until only recently, when Rochelle learned about Watchtower’s moves to make congregations commit to pledging a monthly donation amount. Appalled at this development, Rochelle felt compelled to send her friend a text message, which read as follows…

“First I want to say I have great love for you and the others in the congregation. I truly care about them. What I am about to say to you is out of love from my heart. I heard about the new donation arrangement that Watchtower has and think it is not right that they are now asking the flock to commit to a set monthly donation. Watchtower is no better than any other religion now. Rutherford was right when he said religion is a snare and a racket. I hope this wakes people up and they realize that they are being fleeced. Btw the elders need to stop lying to the [flock]. The donation letter was four pages long but the elders were instructed to only read the first page. I have a copy of the whole letter because an elder leaked it out.”

Rochelle could not have anticipated what would ensue from sending this message.

Days later, Rochelle’s instinct told her to phone in to her local meeting and listen to the program. Her ears pricked when it was hinted that there would be a special talk in the service meeting that the congregation had to listen to. Once this talk began, Rochelle soon realized that it was about her. She was being singled out and accused of apostasy, even though she wasn’t baptized as a Witness!

A recording of the talk is available below…

Highlights from a 21st Century ‘Salem Witch Trial’

“Some that study God’s word… have fallen prey to apostasy, so we want the congregation to be aware of that.”

The speaker’s introduction is slightly confusing, suggesting that he might be referring to several individuals rather than one.

“Some friends who are not of our sort have been contacting at times, and they contact some of the friends with information that’s negative regarding the Governing Body, even accusing the local body of elders of lying to the congregation.”

Given Rochelle’s text message only days earlier, it is by this point obvious that this talk is about her – even though the speaker curiously insists on referring to her as “some friends.”

The speaker, who happens to be the Secretary of the Salem congregation, goes on to paint Rochelle as someone who has set out to gather contact details for sinister motives.

“But sometimes some that have associated with us for a while, and we get to know them a little bit… get cellphone numbers and email addresses. Someone calls you on the phone, you have their number. You email someone ‘Oh I’ll email you this’ and bang, you have their email address. So we want you to be careful if, and that’s ‘if’, you were to be contacted with any information that’s apostate… and to avoid that.”

The speaker ignores the fact that it is perfectly normal for Witnesses to communicate with their bible students by text message.

Those guilty of “apostate thinking” are then ridiculed as subversive and questioning of “Jehovah’s channel of dispensing the truth” – prone to the evil of “debating.”

“We don’t debate the truth, certainly not with apostates!”

In making this remark (indeed, throughout his talk) the speaker forgets that Rochelle is only an unbaptized bible student and therefore incapable of meeting the definition of an “apostate.”

As this site has already discussed, “apostasy” refers to the act of leaving one’s religion, and you cannot leave a religion if you haven’t joined it in the first place. Rochelle wasn’t a Jehovah’s Witness. She hadn’t even started preaching yet. Her only crime was to ask the wrong questions, but the speaker apparently fails to see it quite that way.

“And, when you think about it friends, it’s a lot different from answering a question, someone who’s honest-hearted and looking for the truth, yearning for answers. That’s different. But we should never engage in conversation with someone with apostate thinking. And that’s either, y’know, in person, text messaging, emailing, any other types of sites going back and forth thinking that we have to help this individual. That’s not their design. Their goal is not to learn the truth, their goal is to subvert our faith. That’s their goal. So we don’t want to mistakenly think that we’re there to help someone. It doesn’t happen. They can’t be helped. We want to safeguard ourselves.”

The speaker thus rushes to question Rochelle’s motives. In his mind, she could not have been honest-hearted and yearning for truth. If she was asking about the UN affiliation or the two-witness rule she HAD to be focused on subverting her teacher’s faith, even though she was only going through the Bible Teach book.

“At times we may wonder ‘How can someone who’s studying the bible with us, even attending some of the meetings, how can they succumb to apostate thinking? Now, we have to remember such ones really never allowed themselves to become grounded, or as the scriptures say ‘stable in the faith’. They never really developed a relationship with Jehovah God, love for his word. Most of the time it’s very poor study habits, probably not even preparing for their studies… coming to meetings hit or miss, never getting that relationship with Jehovah God. And so what ends up happening is they open themselves up to the devil, and problems such that then begin to rise.”

The speaker’s scathing characterization of Rochelle’s study habits conflicts with her own account of being a student who studied twice weekly and regularly attended meetings, but it is all too convenient for the speaker to dismiss her so-called “apostasy” by blaming it on her being a poor student.

In the minds of some Witnesses, Jehovah and the Watch Tower Society are barely distinguishable
In the minds of some Witnesses, Jehovah and the Watch Tower Society are barely distinguishable

Of further curiosity is the speaker’s rather naive and blinkered description of the studying process itself. In his view, students simply cannot be indoctrinated and brought under undue influence through one-sided Watchtower propaganda. Rather, through information they become “grounded” and more “stable in the faith.”

The speaker also makes the common mistake among Watchtower apologists of equating Jehovah God with the Watch Tower Society, so that “Jehovah” and the “organization” are referred to interchangeably.

If Rochelle doesn’t embrace the history and policies of Watchtower, then by default she is deemed to be spurning a “relationship with Jehovah God.” If she doesn’t accept every word her mentor is teaching her without question, then she must be opening herself up to the devil.

Indeed, the speaker admits that his talk is based extensively on the notorious “Human Apostates” talk of the 2013 district convention – itself a tour de force in name-calling and ad hominem. But he gives his own twist on Watchtower’s “table of demons” rant by likening Rochelle’s antics to that of a wife on a TV crime series who poisoned several husbands by mixing anti-freeze with gatorade.

That a mature adult could stoop to such wild exaggerations can be explained only by the fact that he is both a recipient and dispenser, not of poisoned gatorade as such, but of Watchtower’s extremely potent koolaid. Reason and logic go out the window when there is an enemy or questioner of “Jehovah’s organization” to be vanquished.

An unnecessary warning

The speaker finally concludes by reading Psalm 26:4, and using this verse to remind his congregation not to associate with apostates. Rochelle, who is still not technically a Witness, is thus effectively “marked” – a lesser form of shunning used by elders whenever Witnesses show “a flagrant disregard for theocratic order though not practicing a grave sin that would result in judicial action” (according to page 124 of the elders’ 2010 “Shepherd Book” manual).

Rochelle says that, fortunately, so few know about her text message that many in the Salem congregation will be oblivious to the fact that the talk was directed at her. Her own mother refuses to accept that she was the object of the speaker’s diatribe.

If the talk was indeed a marking (or “warning”) talk, this only underlines how unnecessary and overly-reactionary it was. As the Shepherd Book itself says under the section on marking: “If the disorderly conduct is generally unknown to others and poses no threat to their spiritual well-being, usually it is best to handle things through admonition and counsel. The elders should not be hasty in giving a warning talk.”

In Rochelle’s case, no “admonition” was offered. No effort was made to help her address her questions, even after prompting from her father. The moment she showed she knew too much, her elders went straight into panic mode.

A lucky escape

To Rochelle’s credit, though shaken by this experience, when I spoke to her on the phone last night she seemed to be taking it all in her stride. Having completed a lucky escape from the grips of a high-control cult, her thoughts are now turning to her parents and her understandable concern for their predicament.

They have sadly been hoodwinked by an organization that is infatuated with itself and ruthlessly crushes any attempts at independent thinking or honest inquiry.

If you happen to be thinking about having a bible study with Jehovah’s Witnesses, Rochelle would like you to consider her story. Any organization that claims it has the one and only “truth” should welcome the closest possible scrutiny of its teachings and practices if it wishes to be taken seriously.

But in the case of Watchtower, asking the wrong questions or investigating too thoroughly can land you in hot water. You could well end up being condemned from the platform as a poisonous “apostate” before you have even joined.

new-cedars-signature2

 

 

 

 

 

An article on this story for German speakers is available on this link

157 thoughts on “The Unbaptized ‘Apostate’ of Salem, Massachusetts

  • May 22, 2014 at 7:48 am
    Permalink

    Folks, thanks for asking all the questions of the JW Apologist that I would have asked.

    Really, you think that they would have learned by now how completely counterproductive their comments are!

    No evidence, no answers to questions, but at least they’ve stopped the poor grammar and spelling!

    Cedars, well done, sir, for taking this kind of nonsense in an amused way. The poor soul is deluded and I really pity them.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • May 22, 2014 at 1:01 pm
    Permalink

    Michael on repley
    It is bosnian language one of slovenian language . They think we are bists people .

  • May 22, 2014 at 3:25 pm
    Permalink

    Nancy Pea stated:

    “Rochelle should consider herself lucky. they actually did her a favor… …hopefully neither parent will shun their daughter. but she should be ready for it. if she has been labeled an apostate, then they will consider her as disfellowshipping herself. so they will probably push dad and mom (even if mom isn’t a JW yet) to shun her or face the consequences…”

    Fortunately, in this situation at least, the Watchtower Society’s legalistic approach to its members has actually hamstrung their efforts to punish Rochelle for her impertinence in daring to question THEM.

    As others have pointed out, first, she’s NOT baptised, secondly, the ‘marking’ talk was so ambiguous, that it failed to clearly display the ‘target’ of the elders’ ire!

    Of course, the elders (& to a certain extent, their wives) may use the gossip grapevine to clarify who that ‘special needs’ talk was actually targeting – but without a baptism, they really can’t do much to her!!

  • May 22, 2014 at 3:28 pm
    Permalink

    John Baptist, you said

    “P.S. I was going through some papers to burn just 2 days ago(Yes in North Carolina its legal to burn) I found the same book mentioned in the story and I happily tossed this poison into the fire. My feelings were of elation to say the least.”

    If the books are old, you might want to check them out on Amazon, half.com etc. If they are really old, they could be worth a few $$$$.

    BTW, it’s legal to burn in South Carolina too, if you call and get a burn permit number first. How ’bout that…we’re practically neighbors! Look out your back door…that’s me standing on the second floor balcony waving at ya!

  • May 22, 2014 at 8:37 pm
    Permalink

    Sorry Rochelle I personally know how much that stinks to hear. After stepping aside as an elder and having the coordinator lie to the congregation about how much my 20 years were appreciated and they wanted me back as soon as my health cleared up. He would live to regret covering up my real reason for not being willing to serve anymore.

    The elders chose to disfellowship a young teenage girl for smoking marijuana while visiting her unbelieving father. She was supposed to take medication for depression but she ran out. He told her to take marihuana instead.

    She informed her mother and was subsequently disfellowshipped when she returned. (She then attempted suicide and was in critical care for 3 days). I was ANGRT at this outrageous disfellowshipping! I confronted several of the elders who were caught viewing porn by their wives. I informed them if they did not reinstate her immediately I would give up all their dirty little secrets.

    She was promptly reinstated. However I was vilified in a local needs talk just like you without the elder mentioning my name. I was incensed as they did this when they thought I was on vacation. However my wife listened in from home and had me come to hear most of it. 100 percent of what I heard was lies.

    I invited the younger elder who gave the talk to my house to explain his position. I had him meet me outside and gave him 2 options, explain his motives or put his fists up as I was going to beat his !#! He chose neither and began crying and begging for mercy. He bought my son a very expensive robot and his wife made my family dinner the next day. He profusely apologized. I said I would accept when he retracted his talk. He told me he was scared and being a witness and an elder was all he had. He chose this opportunity to tell me he viewed pornography and had never told any of the elders but me until now. He said he wished and would beg Jehovah for my return as an elder as I was needed to correct things in the body and congregation.

    Honestly I forgave him then and there, he is truly sincere, misled and wants acceptance by everyone. I later learned his father never gave him his approval. He still remains in a congregation where the BOE is full of manipulating liars. A punishment far worse than any I would wish upon anyone who had been beaten down emotionally as a child. In fact I regret my anger at him and wish I could help him out if the JW cult. I have not had the desire to knock anyone’s lights out since then.

    Being slandered hurts no matter how anyone else feels. Some have expressed that you should not sue. That is easy for them to say, because this did not happen to them. It is like my doctor says about the difference between minor and major surgery. Minor is when it us on you and major is when it happens to me. Whatever you decide, I am truly sorry thus happened and wish you the very best.

    P.S. No one other than the elders knew the talk was about me. The ones I confided to were shocked that I said it was about me. So likely most don’t know or have time to care.

  • May 23, 2014 at 5:25 am
    Permalink

    @What Will Happen to the Apostates?

    What tyope of terrorism is that? “the second DEATH”???
    You must be traumatized with what you are taught by the Witchtower.
    You should ask yourself What Will Happen to Jehovah first (2 Sam 12:12)!! He raped David’s wife and should be “DISFELLOWSHIPPED”! He is not repentent (http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/faq/shunning/)!!

  • May 23, 2014 at 5:34 am
    Permalink

    @What Will Happen to the Apostates?
    Can you wait for Jehovah’s rule when stupidity and all sort of psychological troubles is allowed.

    “But, look! a man+ of the sons of Israel came, and he was bringing near to his brothers* a Mid′i·an·ite woman+ before Moses’ eyes and before the eyes of all the assembly of the sons of Israel, while they were weeping at the entrance of the tent of meeting. 7 When Phin′e·has+ the son of El·e·a′zar the son of Aaron the priest caught sight of it, he at once got up from the midst of the assembly and took a lance in his hand. 8 Then he went after the man of Israel into the vaulted tent* and pierced both of them through, the man of Israel and the woman through her genital parts.* At that the scourge was halted from upon the sons of Israel.+ 9 And those who died from the scourge amounted to twenty-four thousand.+ 10 Then Jehovah spoke to Moses, saying: 11 “Phin′e·has+ the son of El·e·a′zar the son of Aaron the priest has turned back my wrath+ from upon the sons of Israel by his tolerating no rivalry at all toward me in the midst of them,” (http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/bi12/books/numbers/25/)

    In place of ELEAZAR I see you would have been WORSE!! Wait for Jehovah to rule again and enjoy piecing people’s genitals….

    Would you have pieced Jehovah’s genitals, too in 2 Samuel 12:12??

  • May 24, 2014 at 12:59 pm
    Permalink

    I want to draw attention to this: quoting from the same talk as the posted video.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pihfUcR38Sw#t=410

    Holy cow! This talk had such a deep emotional response in me it took me some time to form and post a comment on it.

    First fear mongering and arrogance at its finest:

    “I think they are lying to you. So you get into a debate. Pull
    you in. Again, undermine our faith. We don’t debate the truth. Certainly not with apostates. Really don’t debate the truth with anybody do we? We *have* the truth! We don’t have to debate it with people, we *know* what the truth is. And you know what friends, it’s a lot different than
    answering a question, someone who’s honest hearted and yearning looking for the truth, looking for answers. That’s different. We should *never* engage in conversation with someone with apostate thinking.”

    Then, character assassination:

    “Going back and forth, thinking we may be able to help this individual? That’s not their design. Their goal is not the learn the truth, their goal is to subvert our faith, that’s their goal. We don’t want to mistakenly think we could help someone, it doesn’t happen, they can’t be helped.”

    Abusing the fear mongering further by introducing a safe haven:

    “Our congregation is safe, it will remain safe. Jehovah and the brothers see to that. But we do as we are, as Jehovah’s people, we are an informed people. Jehovah informs us, doesn’t he? on everything. And usually before.. things happen.”

  • May 24, 2014 at 7:59 pm
    Permalink

    pickie , pickie, pickie.

  • May 25, 2014 at 1:05 pm
    Permalink

    Good for you, standing up for what is right and just. Some elders are manipulating liars as that is how they disfellowshipped me. I became a jw as I thought they stood for truth and justice. How wrong was I? I wish you peace my friends.

  • May 25, 2014 at 1:15 pm
    Permalink

    That comment was for Tiger 123

  • May 25, 2014 at 1:38 pm
    Permalink

    Just further fulfillment of John 10:12, 13. The WTBTS can have all the “How to ‘Shepherd’ God’s Sheep” (aka “Flock”) books they want. THEY don’t care about those sheep – they’re not in the business of shepherding – they’ve replaced that task with shearing (aka “fleecing”). Hence, they couldn’t care LESS what the wolves (aka “elders”) say… or do.

    Even if they snatch and/or scatter those sheep.

    As Christ said they would.

    Peace!

  • May 25, 2014 at 2:33 pm
    Permalink

    Thanks to everyone for your kind words and support. I hope that my story will help wake someone up.

  • May 25, 2014 at 3:19 pm
    Permalink

    Rochelle, thank you for commenting on here. Your presence here is an inspiration to me.

    Relating your story must have been difficult, I appreciate both your courage and your stand for truth.

    I am truly sorry for the treatment you received from that congregation.

    With love from you Sister

  • May 26, 2014 at 12:05 am
    Permalink

    I agree with you JWIntellect. It was precisely because personal study was my forte that I realized the BS.
    I would stump the elders by taking the context of the scriptures they aimed at me, and quoting others they were ignorant of.

  • May 26, 2014 at 12:15 am
    Permalink

    What Will Happen to the Apostates?
    You’re a gullible asshole.

  • May 26, 2014 at 11:26 pm
    Permalink

    What will happen to Apostates—I feel bad for you, I really do. Answer me this: What would others at the Kingdom Hall think of you being here? Who REALLY is the liar and the coward without faith? How many people are there who have been disfellowshipped by BOE while at the same time not so much as lift a finger against appointed brothers who have admitted committing gross sins in the past without confessing them at all, and they can continue to still serve in their appointed position and face no judicial committee at all? So based on this cold reality, HOW MANY elders are there out there, who have disfellowshipped members while at the same time concealing gross sins that they themselves committed and never confessed? They can continue serving as an Elder/MS even if they do confess them! How many sister’s lives have been destroyed by the WT policy of withholding information from her regarding her husband’s unfaithfulness, not even allowing her to sit in on his judiciary committee and they discover that he wasn’t truthful with his own wife about the extent of his infidelity and willingly withhold vital that information that clearly affects her? Then, she goes to have relations with him in an effort to forgive him and discovers later that he wasn’t totally honest with her about the extent of his unfaithfullness. Now she decides to divorce him, but she can’t do so without being disfellowshipped because, in the eyes of the WT, she forgave him by resuming relations……while at the same time, they KNOWINGLY AND WILLFULLY withheld the vital information she needed to know that could have helped her to make the right decision even in the first place?!? She can’t sit in on her husband’s judicial committee if he committed adultery, but in the case of the wife committing adultery….he can sit in on her judicial committee? These ARE NOT lies, the above mentioned examples are DIRECTLY stated in the BOE manual that they receive in from the GB.
    And what is worse, in the examples cited above, there’s not even ONE SINGLE SCRIPTURE cited to support the information.
    How many children’s lives have been destroyed by child molesters in the congregation, when the BOE KNEW that child was being exposed to a molester and did NOTHING to protect that child? How many children died in years past because of rejecting ORGAN transplants? How much $ that the bro/sis give to the Society to support the world wide work is being used right now to pay off huge lawsuits? How many sisters were disfellowshipped because they didn’t scream for help while being raped? The WT goes to great lengths to talk about the downfalls of other religious organization, “apostates” etc., but would not dare to publish any OF IT’S OWN problems in the yearbook, Kingdom Ministry, etc. for the bro/sis to read about.
    I would encourage you to learn from the bank teller at the bank: the next time you give her a $100 bill, notice the things that he/she will do to that bill; they EXAMINE it and see if it’s a COUNTERFEIT bill or not. And if it is, what does he/she do? Those here, whom you have erroneously labeled as liars, cowards, etc., did exactly what any bank teller would do when finding a counterfeit bill…..they have carefully examined the WT to see whether or not it is counterfeit. And just as the proof of a counterfeit bill is clearly seen……the proof of the lies of the WT, that you are obviously blind because you have been told all the things that they want you to hear….those are the things that members here clearly see and see it just like a counterfeit bill: It’s a fraud and a fake. In contrast to being “cowards” they have acted bravely by taking their stand and enduring…even in the face of being cut-off from friends & family. It was actually foretold in the Bible that many would be excluded by those who believed they were doing the right thing, and at the same time they THEMSELVES will be put to shame for doing so—Isaiah 66:5. So I ask you…who really is the liar and the coward?

    • July 12, 2014 at 11:26 am
      Permalink

      All excellent points, William Niles!!

    • July 13, 2014 at 8:08 pm
      Permalink

      That is my story also,As I was reading I kept thinking “wow that sounds like me”.

  • May 27, 2014 at 6:57 am
    Permalink

    there’s all way’s to side’s to every story.

  • May 27, 2014 at 7:34 am
    Permalink

    Thank you Rochelle for sharing your story. I hope that anyone who is studying or even mildly interested will read it and realize that the WBTS is a cult and to run the other direction!

  • May 28, 2014 at 2:17 am
    Permalink

    When all said & done shunning is a form of persecution.

  • May 28, 2014 at 2:24 am
    Permalink

    So, Jehovah’s witnesses are persecuting me because of the false things they have taught (even before i was born). Does that sound like a God of justice to you?

  • May 28, 2014 at 2:35 am
    Permalink

    I am being persecuted by the Watchtower Society for my religious beliefs.

  • May 28, 2014 at 2:47 am
    Permalink

    Shit or bust as my friend once said.

  • May 28, 2014 at 11:03 am
    Permalink

    Gary, you said “So, Jehovah’s witnesses are persecuting me because of the false things they have taught (even before i was born). Does that sound like a God of justice to you?”

    No, that does not sound like a God of justice, nor of love.

    We have absolutely no reason to believe that God approves or endorses or uses the Governing Body; or Jehovah’s Witnesses as an organization.

    I believe Jesus is looking at hearts of individuals when he is judging us, no matter where we are in this world, or what we call ourselves. God has given Jesus the authority to judge, so Jesus is the only means of Salvation.

    Jesus doesn’t have a long list of rules we have to follow. All he asks is that we believe he is God’s son and that we love God and love our neighbor.

    The thief who hung on the stake beside Jesus admitted that he deserved his punishment, but that Jesus was an innocent man, then he asked “Jesus, remember me when You come in Your kingdom!”. Jesus could see the man’s heart and saw that he believed in Jesus and His Kingdom, so Jesus forgave him for his sins on the spot and said he would have a heavenly reward for his faith in Jesus.

    If I misunderstood your comment, I apologize.

  • May 28, 2014 at 12:29 pm
    Permalink

    Thanks I’m a country girl your thoughts are appreciated.
    I was shunned today as I walked down the street where I live. It’s happened a number of times. I live on a very popular street where the three different congregations in the area have the book stands. Thing is, although I do not attend meetings, I’m not disfellowedshipped. I have been honest with the elders & told them that I do not believe the 1914 doctrine, generation teaching & medical flip flops. Told them I wouldn’t bow down to what was false. The Elders told me as long as I don’t preach these things to any individual there wouldn’t be a judicial committee. Still getting shunned though. Thing is I kept my side of the bargain. I mean they sit outside my home and shun me. To me, and all the others who get shunned, I believe it to be religious persecution.

  • May 28, 2014 at 12:48 pm
    Permalink

    Gary, I’m sorry you are being shunned, even though you haven’t been disfellowshipped. I know how painful that is. I am disfellowshipped and two JWs live in my apartment building, one is my next door neighbor.

    Even around neighbors, they both act as if I am not even there, completely ignoring me.

    My own brother and three sisters shun me.

    So I do know that pain, even though mine would be qualified as “deserved” in their eyes.

    Do you think they are “marking” you, though that is a new term for me? Is that an individual decision or is it a congregational matter that everyone would know?

    As far as my JW neighbors, I speak to them just like I do to everyone else…it’s a friendly little place. How they respond is their business.

    Sometimes the way we react to pain is with anger. The only one that anger hurts…is you. I offer my encouragement and Christian love to you as you face this difficult situation.

  • May 28, 2014 at 4:26 pm
    Permalink

    Reply to I’macountrygirl.

    That’s a fair point to raise regarding ‘marking’. Yes I would except that argument and treatment regarding a person using their conscience. I would think it proper though that a Christian would explain to an individual why their conscience is taking such action against them.
    There is no doubt in my mind that the Elders have discussed my point of view amongst themselves. Whether they have discussed it with other members of the congregation I do not know.
    What was interesting about the Elders reply regarding me not speaking about my thoughts to any other member of the congregation is the level of control /authority they believe they have over an individual (though not attending the meetings) and the threat of judicial action.
    I am not concerned about changing anyone else’s religious beliefs that’s a personal matter.
    While the society freely admits that it has made its own doctrinal error’s I.e ‘we use to believe’ this or that, it does not allow the same latitude for individuals.
    The question for a person is this, should a Christian be loyal to the organisation or to what their conscience tells them is the truth 1st?
    I do not believe that 1914 was the beginning of Christ 2nd presence. My conscience tells me that and history (the society’s own) teaches me that.
    I do not think I deserve, or anyone, to be punished for a conscientious matter. To me that’s religious intolerance.
    I freely admit that the Watchtower Society has hurt me, especially concerning the sexual abuse of my daughter and it’s concealment, but regardless of it all I will not bow or compromise to what is false and I should not be bullied into doing so. And while I’m having a rant:-), how can an organisation which has self admittedly taught what is false punish anybody else. To put it another way, as history has proved, it wants you to be loyal to it above what is truthful. No way.
    The Society should be asking for forgiveness for the false things it has taught, the pain and the spiritual stumbling it has caused
    Take just one example and there are many.
    If a person did not except they had been appointed over all the masters belongings they were disfellowedshipped not because that person was untruthful before God & an apostate but because they rejected the Watchtowers authority on the matter an authority that was false in the 1st place. That is a spiritual murder & not one single word of an apology ever.
    What about fractions, 1975, 1914 generation, organ transplants, oral sex being a grounds for scriptural divorce, 1925, 1874, or how about shutting heavens door in 1935 and stigmatising those who partook of the emblems? These are but a few and no doubt more will follow. It is a truth that if you bring these matters up with them they will view you with suspicion rather than themselves. In the end they will label you and if you don’t keep quiet will disfellowship you even though they were their own teachings in the 1st place. So can you be truthful to yourself as a Jehovah’s Witness. No unfortunately not:-(

  • May 29, 2014 at 1:15 pm
    Permalink

    Razmislite jehovini svjedoci . Generacije od 1914 nece umrijeti i doci ce kraj . To vas uci Drustvo Kula strazara . Jeli Isus rekao generacije ili generacija . Na tome Drustvo Kula strazara gradi svoj uvid u Boziju Rijec kojeg nema nego muljaju (bosanski receno) .

  • May 29, 2014 at 1:35 pm
    Permalink

    Jehovini svjedoci jeli Bog trazi da ne razgovarate sa iskljucenim sinom koji se mozda nikad nece vratiti vasem vjerovanju . Razmislite malo na sto vas tjeraju Veliki Ucitelji u Drustvu Kula Strazara da se odreknete svog djeteta samo zbog toga sto ono ne zna da vjeruje kao vi . Dobro razmislite jer djeca bez obzira na sve prirodno vole svoje roditelje a vi im tako vracate . Bog nema nista sa takvim vasim ponasanjem jer on sigurno 100% nije takav .

  • May 29, 2014 at 6:42 pm
    Permalink

    If the jehovahs witnesses were truly chosen by god to represent on Earth, then why would there be so much confusion when it comes to divine guidance, and direction and so forth?
    A false prophet is a false prophet and no amount of doublespeak or “new light” can dispel this fact. Anyone who believes these charletanes is either confused or easily duped.
    I have no sympathy for someone who deludes themselves to believing the drivel spewed from this organization.

  • May 29, 2014 at 10:32 pm
    Permalink

    @ Derek

    Thank you for taking the time to relate your story. I was labeled diseased for doing the right thing. I never dreamed someone I do not know would commend me. I am glad you commented and am sorry I did not see it sooner.

    The very best to you

  • May 31, 2014 at 8:41 am
    Permalink

    I would like to know the hole story not just one side.

    • May 31, 2014 at 8:51 am
      Permalink

      You’ve read Rochelle’s story and you’ve hopefully listened to the outrageous talk that was given at the local kingdom hall. I would say that’s as two-sided as you could reasonably expect. If you were a JW in the local congregation, you would only have the talk with which to form your opinions. What is your point?

  • June 3, 2014 at 4:15 am
    Permalink

    cowboy,

    Yes, there are always two sides to a situation like this. You have been provided with both sides. You have a recording of the meeting. Is it your contention that the recording is faked?

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • June 3, 2014 at 9:27 pm
    Permalink

    I heard audio recording no video showing it recorded at a kingdom hall.

    • June 3, 2014 at 10:13 pm
      Permalink

      Well, Cowboy – have you ever come across a situation at a Kingdom Hall, or anywhere under the control of the Watchtower bosses where any side to a question other than that issued by the bosses can be given a hearing?

      What exactly is your JW experience? I have never known anyone who has been through the JW mill ever having known a situation where questioning of the edicts, diktats and TRUTHS issued from the President/Gov. Bod./ F and D. slave was possible or permitted.

      Have you? If you have please elaborate.

  • June 4, 2014 at 7:27 am
    Permalink

    there’s no video to tell where it was recorded or who is talking

    • June 4, 2014 at 9:48 am
      Permalink

      There’s no video to accompany the audio? You’re right it must be fake. (facepalm)

    • June 4, 2014 at 9:52 am
      Permalink

      Cowboy – Please answer this question – Have you any experience of it ever being possible to doubt or query anything that is issued fro Watchtower High Command?

      I was a JW as a child. WHatever was written or spoken in a Kingdom Hall or Watchtower context had to be accepted as God issued TRUTH. Everyone I have spoken to or exchanged messages with who has had JW experience has noticed that singular feature. JWs do not ask questions of their boosees. The JW bosses speak and write TRUTH.

      As this is a common, if not universal JW experience, why do you continue to doubt the testimony of ROchelle.

      yes, we know there is no video. You do not need to repeat that yet again.

      Please answer the repated questions and stop avoiding answering. Here they are again:

      1. WHat is your JW experience?

      2. Have you ever known any JW situation where questioning of WT/JW authority has been permitted?

      Answers please!

    • June 4, 2014 at 10:41 am
      Permalink

      How long will itbe before this COwboy character goes the way of all those who try and defend the JWs.

      The cult is indefensible. That is why its would be defenders disappear. They are trained at the Theocratic Ministry School to prey on the lost, the lonely and the vulnerable.

      Faced with those of us who have known the cult from the inside and have studied its history and methods they are, universally, totally out of their depth.

      Will Cowboy slope back to the Kingdom Hall, vainly, hopelessly, trying to convince himself that there is some truth in JW TRUTH?

      He must be desparate to imagine he is more than simply a dupe of a global property and publishing corporation, one of the worst little outfits ever thrown up in the history of Christendom.

      Perhaps he will reconsider his loyalty to an outfit whose record in its 135 year history is a catalogue of negatives.

      WHat, COwboy, do you admire the most bout JWdom? The litany of duff prophecies? The doctrinal fip flops? The wasted lives through the frowning on education? The protection of paedophiles through the 2 witness rule or maybe the 1000s of deaths through the blood transfusion ban?

      Maybe it is the social isolation through the forbidding of Christmas and birthday celebrations, or perhaps simply the unnecessary Armageddon nightmares.

      DO tell us, COwboy.

      We know there is no video. We noticed that ourselves. We do not need COwboy to tell us yet again.

  • June 4, 2014 at 10:04 am
    Permalink

    Cowboy — are you serious? So if a Witnesses gave it to you and it did not have a video you would accept it as being real. Just listen to the way the person is talking and the references he uses. You know it is real, what purpose would be served to make a fake talk?

  • June 4, 2014 at 7:01 pm
    Permalink

    A picture is worth a thousand word’s

    • June 5, 2014 at 1:44 am
      Permalink

      …or a billion of your words.

    • June 5, 2014 at 4:59 am
      Permalink

      you have failed to answer questions, Cowboy. Therefore your comments are meaningless and void.

      Do remember, though, if you really are a JW and you actually believe all their dangerous drivel, you have set yourself up to be executed at Armageddon. No Paradise Earth for you. You have defied Jehovah’s exclusive earthly rep. and engaged with apostates on the internet.

      The almighty and omniscient Jehovah will have seen right through your silly alias. He has probably already got a thunderbolt ready with your name on it.

      Not long now till 1914, 1925, 1942, 1975 or even various combinations of the JW Generation game.

    • June 5, 2014 at 6:10 am
      Permalink

      Well done COwboy! You are maintaining the tradition of all JW apologists. You are failing to answer questions and failing to offer any justification for the foul practices and beliefs of the JW cult.

      Any casual reader of this site will notice how believing JWs make asses of themselves and simply provide a warning not to get involved as an unpaid mag. distributor for a corrupt piublishing and property corporation.

      Join the Roll of Honour alongside ‘What will happen to APostates’ and countless others who have come on here, failed to make a case and disappeared.

  • June 5, 2014 at 5:06 am
    Permalink

    cowboy,

    Did you expect Rochelle to take a camera into a meeting she did not even attend and film the talk?

    I am satisfied that the recording is genuine. Why aren’t you?

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • June 6, 2014 at 6:47 am
    Permalink

    Anyone that been a JW could have recorded that and why would I believe anyone on this website it just like all apostates website’s

    • June 6, 2014 at 7:14 am
      Permalink

      Your condition, Cowboy, is tragic. If you truly believe that JW TRUTH is truthfully true, with all its contradictory flip flops and unevidenced claims, why do you do defy your ‘divinely appointed’ bosses and visit apostate websites?

      I know I will not get an answer; you have shown yourself incapable. Regarding this recording, in JW eyes surely it is right that unbaptised students should be condemned for presuming to question Jehovah’s TRUTH.

      Why does that make you so cross? You know that, as a JW, Cowboy, you have to believe and act upon everything that is issued by God’s exclusive earthly reps. or face the death penalty at Armageddon.

      But JWdom attract all sorts of confused, inconsistent and mixed up people. My mother was one such. She regularly attended the Kingdom Hall and Conventions, bought all the mags and books, but turned a deaf ear to the hygine and dress code stuff. She was a determined unwashed bag lady of the smelliest and scruffiest sort, but was nevertheless convinced of the truly truthful truthfulness of JW TRUTH.

    • June 6, 2014 at 11:32 am
      Permalink

      Cowboy

      The recording was exact JW language and talk. Even the scriptures and reasoning 110% JWDOM. If it wasn’t from the JW cong it was a 110% fake and exact duplicate but we know it was from the Cong. Ok Cowboy, let’s say it wasn’t from the JW Cong? Is there anything in that talk that you disagree with? Is there anything in that talk that is not WT teaching. Let’s take it from that point of view. Assume that it was not from the JW Cong ok? What did you personally think of the talk that was given. Do you agree with it or is there something you do not agree with?

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: