On Sunday we reported on how the 2016 annual meeting was less than thrilling compared to previous years. Witnesses have grown accustomed to these events being used to unveil new publications, announce momentous organizational changes, or reveal “new light” on Bible verses.
But it seems there was something we overlooked, which has since been spotted by the eagle-eyed folks over on the Ex-JW Reddit page. Apparently the new “Sing Out Joyfully” to Jehovah songbook contains more than just praise to Jehovah. It also has a not-so-subtle reminder for Witnesses to dig deep into their pockets and donate.
When I first saw the thread discussing this, I assumed they were referring to the inside cover of the book, with its reminder to visit JW.org to make a donation… but I was mistaken.
It seems the Governing Body has found an even more imaginative way to nudge Witnesses toward the kingdom hall contribution boxes. The words of one of the songs have been changed so that instead saying, “Take my voice and let it sing, Praises always to the King,” the same line now reads, “Take my silver and my gold. Nothing, Lord, would I withhold.”
As has already been noted on this website, the Governing Body’s increased begging for funds has not gone unnoticed, and Witnesses would do well to ask whether such methods are really necessary if the organization truly has God’s backing.
Changing lyrics in songbooks, imposing stealth tithing on congregations and overtly asking for donations on JW Broadcasting to plug income/expenditure shortfalls is certainly a world away from the traditional approach to donations established by Charles Taze Russell, who vowed that his magazine would “never beg nor petition men for support.” (The video below explores Russell’s attitude toward money in more detail.)
Is this latest surreptitious tactic further evidence of growing financial desperation in bethel corridors, or is it perfectly normal for the Almighty Creator of the cosmos to use his organization to ask for money? You decide!
Thanks for the quick catch. However, it would be great to see an article that takes God’s Kingdom rule book apart! Pieces by pieces.
I would use that to show witnesses how deceptive and misleading the leaders of their religion really is, especially as they are currently learning their history. Thanks ones again
Your wish is my command! ;) http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/the-cedars-review-gods-kingdom-rules
Thanks Lloyd….that link was excellent!
Nothing is sacred anymore! The Kingdom songs today are far from the ones I grew up with unfortunately. Fortunately I still have good memories of the old ones and normally end up singing the old lyrics from memory (from the old pink songbook).
Thanks for the article Lloyd and for keeping us updated.
How pathetic! Back when Charles Taze Russell began this work, he said he would keep it going without ever asking for money. Because in his mind, if he has to ask for money then it’s not Gods will and God is not providing. Today we can see that God isn’t providing, but JW members are so deaf, dumb and blind that they don’t see it. TERRIBLE DAYS ARE COMING.
Tony, let me assure you that many, many Witnesses are aware that something is not right. I am always talking to other brothers about it. We feel that something is wrong, and, like you say, we are getting the vibes that terrible days are coming.
Personally, as a victim of Elder abuse for many years, I can’t wait for the trouble to start so that these proud bullies can have power over a dwindling number of believers so I can abuse them back for the abuse they have given me and others of my group.
There are many of us just fed up with the stupidity we see. Thank goodness for John Cedars who is bringing this stupidity into plain sight.
You don’t have to. It’s not Christian at all.
Seeing I am worth more than rubies and corals maybe I should cast my pearls before swine. I am sure there will be some willing vulture ready to cash up . Such greed is obscene. I am sure the latest “new light” will be tithing. How much money do these people need? Are they going to buy paradise seeing as god has delayed it so many times. There is only so much you can do in one life. As I have said before . IF they were serious about preaching with all the sell offs they could finance every Jehovah’s Witness to go preaching all expenses paid even for just a year. But they can’t do that because that would be distributing to the poor and not one of them wants treasure in heaven they want their trash and cash right now. yours cynically Ruthlee
To quote a relative, “Greed is good.” Greed lifts up, clarifies and, apparently, greed sanctifies.
I’ve written a few pieces on tithing in short, while money was used in trade (shackles), tithing could only be crops or livestock, in the case of Abraham war booty was given to the king. Some see that as tithing. In Malachi the “meat” of scripture used by Christian preachers to advocate tithing, Malachi is rebuking the Levites, not the people. Only the Leavites were allowed to receive the tithing. From Mal 3:10 onward, Malachi is tearing the Leavite leaders apart for not sharing the tithe with the priests in the temple or only giving them the worst
-only food was tithable, never money
-only Leavites could collect tithes
-Christians (of the New Testament) were never asked to pay tithes
-Tithing in the church first appeared centuries after completion of the Bible.
If it gets to it and the Watchtower adopts tithing, we can destroy their GB justifications.
Yeah, apparently God, the Creator of the Universe, is bad with money and that’s why he needs yours!
Let’s review: It’s a cult!
I was hoping someone would have the time to compare songs to see if anything changed. I didn’t expect to see anything this blatant though. I wonder when they will just begin garnishing wages?
That will never happen Tony. That would be the perfect exit strategy for many, plus I’m sure that it wouldn’t be completely legal. Mind you, neither is protecting child abusers in a religious organisation but that still happens unfortunately.
MY JW sister said if you ever found the watchtower organization begging for money, you would KNOW it was not God’s organization.
She doesn’t have anything to do with me know due to her shunning…………..but wonder what she thinks.
…that God needs the lights on , not he needs money. Seriously, they have an answer for everything. God doesn’t need money BUT the KH has to be cared for, the older B/S need care…something needs that loot!
If that was the case they would never beg, kh are perfectly capable of taking care for itself.
They still want to fly first-class in Bethel and all the riches that comes with them.
Hi Lloyd,
In the songbook “Songs to Jehovah’s Praise”, 1950, there is song nr. 74, “Dedication”, with the frase “Take my silver and my gold; Nothing, Lord, would I with-hold”. It’s too in the “Kingdom Service Song Book”, 1948, song nr. 51.
So it’s nothing new :).
Regards,
Mr. Elle Wiltjer.
Good catch! The line may not be new, but reverting to a line from decades ago in this manner surely is.
Omg…
Well we all know about recycling old light lloyd! Great article. Keep em coming and I hope your family is keeping well. Good to see your progress with publication of your book. (Apologies for going off topic!)
wow…just wow. Although I don’t know why I’m surprised, they have already changed the bible so why not change the songs too. In other news I have an advance copy of next year’s “new light” announcement:
To all congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses,
Greetings Brothers. Jehovah has just revealed to us that He has decided to provide only a limited number of pandas in the new world. Pandas will be distributed on a first-come first-serve basis. To reserve your panda please send a donation via cash, credit, 401k’s, stocks, bonds, jewelry, or gold teeth payable to the World Wide Work by January 1, 2017. Visit jw.org/pandasforsuckers for more information.
Really? I couldn’t find this on their site. Will there be any special edition ones within the limited number? I’d hate for mine to get mixed up with the others after I’ve paid for it. :)
Yes, there will be limited edition pandas for those in the full time service. They will be trained to help you clean up all of the dead bodies of unbelievers after Armageddon. Don’t worry about your order getting mixed up, just send in your donation, and patiently wait on Jehovah. ;)
Haw do you mean they changed the Bible? They put in the name Jehovah where they can right?
Hi Jaak – They have changed more that that. Check out this article it has a great summary of the changes https://gotquestions.org/New-World-Translation.html
LOL !!!!
Give it time, they will have an entry fee at all KHs soon lol
There is already a hefty exit fee.
Wow!!! Sad, but true.
@ Jen;
You said it! Well played.
10 to 1 song 50 will be most often used to close the
meeting as a reminder of where the contribution box
is on your way out, and as a tug on the emotions
to drop in a little extra of the “Bees and Honey” —
(Cockney rhyming slang).
We have to realize that the Baby Boomer Generation is, or is nearing, retirement. This means that the steady income that Watchtower depends on is drying up.
The Generation X are a group of men and women who can see right through Watchtower’s talking heads and realize that Watchtower is a do nothing organization.
With that in mind, this group of men and women are not willing to part with their financial assets. Watchtower can keep talking all they want. But, the end result is the same. No money honey.
Doc: Absolutely! The Money Train has stopped and Cash Flow is drying up by the Hour! When you run a large corporation ( and I did)…….there is a certain fixed overhead that cannot be stopped/avoided…….the Society is showing signs of “Total Fatigue” as they are making alot of errors and now the “Double Talk” is even getting “Confusing” to all of them! I predict they get desperate enough to “suggest” some kind of tytheing (sp?) much like the Latter Day Saints do (Mormons)…..before they go totally bankrupt. Someone has got to “Follow the Money” someday and they have got literally “Billions” of assets worldwide…….so I think they definitely have some time before their demise and total restructure! Knorr mentioned to Franz that he wasnt quite sure about timing of the “End Times and Armageddon?” just before he died…that proved a fact…….they all really “Dont Know!” Nathan Knorr had many regrets before he passed…..the stirring in society started and just look now??? The WTB&TS are running for Cover!
@ Doc Obvious:
The Watchtower’s policy of continuing higher education, like many other of their un-scriptural policy’s, has truly come back to bite them in their behind.
With the baby boomers, like myself, entering retirement I wouldn’t be to quick to part with my fixed income either, if I were still “in” to do so that is.
The other generations, X’ers and Millennials, are entirely to sophisticated to involve themselves with organized religions, televangelists, and even so called secret fraternities such as the Free Masons, Scottish Rites Freemasons, Lions Clubs, Brotherhood of Elks, Moose or any other lodges that really provides some sort of community service unlike the Watchtower who provides nothing but lip service, not help to the Community.
The gullible “Howdy-Doody” baby boomers, like myself, are next up to bat as the so called “Greatest Generation” finishes their earthly course.
“Let the sea’s and thunders roar,
warn of Armageddon’s final war….” “Songs to Jehovah’s Praise”, 1950. Pretty frightening to a small child (myself) who sang this. Not so much now 60 years latter. Ah, the innocence and honesty of youth. Sad isn’t it.
There are many of us still in who are quite disillusioned with the way things are going. A common thing we have done is stopped contributing. When the congregation has a resolution we don’t raise our hand. The elder ask,” Who is for?” Then,”Who is against?” Then, “Who is abstaining?” but we still don’t put up our hands because we don’t care, and he didn’t ask how many don’t care. We are amazed there are many witnesses who can’t see through the things you guys mention. But by being in, we can ask enbarrassing questions about generation, the Royal Commission and cost cutting, and see them squirm to give answers.
In 2012, they changed the Kingdom Melodies. Changed the rhythm and the words of many of my favorite songs without asking anyone anything. Worst, they than commanded us love these changes and be appreciative of them. Well, that change than was already one of those things that made it easier for me and my family to stop attending all together back in 2013.
I was never a big fan of the Kingdom Melodies, but they managed to make bad songs worse by trying fit more words into a melody and it made them awkward. They also manged to make tolerable songs terrible. So glad I stopped attending over 2 years ago. By the end I just looked at the song book and didn’t and stopped saying “amen” after the prayers. Unfortunately, my family still goes. I’m glad you and your family escaped.
Stephane –
I felt the same way. After being encouraged years ago to commit the songs to memory, I was not happy when the changes came. I knew some songs so well that I didn’t look at my old songbook, just lifted my head and sang for joy. When they changed it, I still used to sing the old words and felt a right idiot if ‘brothers, heard me. I believe the change was just another aspect of their control over us. ‘Do as we say and like it’. As you say, it was one of the things that made it easier to leave, also in 2013.
@ Bad Penny, Will and Stephane Laliberte:
Man alive, 2013 was when my family and I completed our fade as well. Must have been a bumper year for disassociation.
The Friday conventions last talk, which told me and my son that “we were tools of the Devil” for pursuing higher education, was the final straw for us. More enlightened by jwsurvey and other sites we have never regretted our departure and I would like to encourage other active Witnesses that may be here to do their own research and see just how far “the rabbit hole” goes.
@ Big B
Critical thinking and questioning are bad, remember? I read somewhere– “Once you stop questioning, you stop growing.” The only growth encouraged by WT is “spiritual” growth as defined by WT. Personal growth is stunted in every way under the laws and “bible principles” under WT. So glad I left.
@Big B
I started my fade toward the end of 2012 and was totally gone by the fall of 2013. By the 2013 summer convention I was already totally zoning them out. But I do remember them bashing college at the circuit assembly early in 2013 and thinking, “well since all my earnings result from college education, I am sure you must not want my tainted donations then.”
WS
@ Will & Winston Smith:
“Personal growth is stunted in every way under the laws and “bible principles” under WT”.
“well since all my earnings result from college education, I am sure you must not want my tainted donations then.”
Touche! I concur with the both of you. Watchtower had two cards to play namely; either keep neutral as far as higher education is concerned with the possibilities of contributions increasing as salaries increased or (the card they played) put down higher education as part of Satan’s system. Keep them from gaining knowledge, curtail their thinking ability and keep them under control.
The card they played (the control card) was the wrong one as high paying careers (Union run and supported) manufacturing steel, shoes and clothes was shipped oversees to Asia and S. America. Those aforementioned places are now in their “industrial age” while in Europe and North America have morphed into the “technological age”.
Without education one cannot compete in the technological age and is hard pressed to gain any remunerative employment. Thus the friends are forced into working several low paying part-time jobs without benefits and no monies for Watchtower contributions.
Rather than ‘losing their control’ over the friends and hoping for the possibility in them staying, the WTBTS decided that ‘knowledge is power’ and the friends would leave if educated.
Well the friends have done both; gained a college education to spite the WTBTS’ explicit warnings against it and left with their high paying salaries (and possible contributions).
Too bad, so sad WTBTS. You have lost your hold on your adherents and your funding. Time for another ‘Armageddon is a commin’ prediction me thinks.
I remember that talk. And the other talks and interviews where higher education was vilified. I have spent 7 years at university as a witness and enjoyed every minute of it. I have not seen any brothers swaggering about showing off about their education. Usually the few that have gone are very humble about it. My higher education enabled me to RP and work overseas where the need was greater. In fact, I pioneered while I was at uni. Why is it always an either..or? Why can’t the witnesses who want to go to uni pioneer while they are there? So at that convention I was an RP in a foreign country being told by the governing body I had betrayed Jehovah by going to uni. Thanks GB. I’m still in, but I think this organisation is nutty with not just its stand on uni but its explanation why it doesn’t want us to go. Let the window cleaning brothers give donations I reckon. I’m not giving any, because the money I earn is from the devil, apparently.
Favorite songs? Really? For me it was all bad.
As soon I sad down I was sleeping, when up was for singing, but it did not like that either.
In the Audio section of JW dot ORG Broadcasting, there is a section called Sing to Jehovah — Chorus. For some reason, Song 50 is missing, but Song 58 is still there with the original “Take my voice and let it sing, Praises always to my king.”
I’m sure they’ll amend that soon enough. The link to the new song book on JW.org has the new lyrics! Beggars!!
Thanks for passing on the info Lloyd. Well done to the person who found it!
Apparently the seven GB Pharisees running this Barnum & Bailey show (where there’s a sucker born every minute) have now embraced the Golden Rule: He who has the gold makes the rules. And what are the rules?
Give, give, give of your money, your time and your life because if you don’t Jah will destroy you at Armageddon! These masters of deception are experts at emotional manipulation and keep their flock captive
through the insidious use of FEAR, SHAME, and GUILT.
Sadly, The WT CORP. relentlessly spews it poison and the VICTIMS and the VICTIMIZERS in this false religion
are like automatons that cannot think or feel for themselves.
Here’s a new song sung to the tune of “We’re Jehovah’s
Witnesses” It goes like this:
We’re Jehovah’s robots
We’re taught not to think a lot
Like the Pharisees of old
The WT is in love with gold
Like a spider with a fly
Their web of fear is spun with lies
The propaganda that they preach
Keeps critical thinking out of reach…. etc.
I’d like to see some other verses from readers out there!
Witnesses
Creative lyrics!
WS
Your lyrics aren’t far from “present truth,” WideAwake. Take a look at song #10 from an old Watchtower songbook, where Witnesses are made to beg for their every thought to be controlled by JehovahWatchtower: http://smmcroberts.net/blog/watchtowertrainingforwarfaresong/
They want your every thought, as well as a big chunk of your money. What’s worse is that they force you to sing your pledge out loud in the midst of the congregation!
French: http://hazel42.blogspot.fr/2016/10/cantique-jw.html
I think the most interesting thing about this hymn is that the original version was written by Frances Ridley Havergal (1836-79) the daughter of a Church of England priest. It is still sung in many churches and appears as number 705 in the Methodist hymn book, “Hymns and Psalms”
There are variations on Havergal’s original wording, but a commonly sung version is:
Take my life and let it be
Consecrated, Lord, to Thee.
*Take my moments and my days,
Let them flow in endless praise.
Take my hands and let them move
At the impulse of Thy love.
Take my feet and let them be
Swift and beautiful for Thee.
Take my voice and let me sing,
Always, only for my King.
Take my lips and let them be
Filled with messages from Thee.
Take my silver and my gold,
Not a mite would I withhold.
Take my intellect and use
Every pow’r as Thou shalt choose.
Take my will and make it Thine,
It shall be no longer mine.
Take my heart, it is Thine own,
It shall be Thy royal throne.
Take my love, my Lord, I pour
At Thy feet its treasure store.
Take myself and I will be
Ever, only, all for Thee.
*Some hymnals insert this couplet after the “silver and gold” couplet.
So the phrase is everywhere and pretty much highlights the fact that all religions are a snare and a racket that prays on peoples fear of death and their endless fascination with the end of the world. A human condition, it seems.
We’re supposed to be eternally grateful (guilty) because Jesus died for our sins. Is he really dead? I thought he got resurrected. If you get resurrected, you’re not dead, right? So how can one be dead and living at the same time? Why is everyone made to feel guilty over something that is not true?
Is this another example of believing black is actually white just because we’re told (ordered) to.
Why are we so eager to feel guilty and then feel so much better for it when we are?
Humans are romantically insane. Religious leaders know that and use it.
We’ve been made fools of.
Isn’t it time we grew up?
Sir I don’t like your thinking, please pray some more and you can expect a visit from some elders.
We do the thinking for you, don’t forget that :-)
I feel bamboozled! All those years of singing Kingdom Melodies and being told they were so different from other churches. Then they told us don’t listen to “Christendom’s” music so as a born-in I had no clue.
I was speaking ( about 1/2 hour ) with a J.W. today; he was on trolly duty in Poynton, where I live. A number of subjects were referred to – membership of the UN for example. Typically he refused to believe anything I said on the matter and would not consider doing any research;he distrusted any source of information apart from J.W.org.The Australian Royal Commission was mentioned but was met with the same disbelief and refusal to do independent research.That is, of course, standard practice amongst J.W.s – the product of many years of indoctrination/lack of critical thinking skills/and complete trust in anything the governing body says and a point blank rejection of anything that appears critical of ” Jehovah`s Organisation.”Fear has a profound hold over their ability to reason..many, of course, know from personal experience the “cost”of questioning the organisation.
Donations request – JW BROADCASTING
The subject of JW broacasting was mentioned and I referred to S. Lett`s talk on ” ..current situation..fiscal year..we found the amount of money flowing out will be much greater than the amount of money that we have coming in… a small donation from each of many JW`s adds up..”I quoted from Lett`s “appeal ” for money, but my JW friend said I had ” misunderstood ” and that Jehovah`s organisation is not short of money ( he quoted the finance to build the new headquartes in upstate NY ) and that the Organisation does not ask for money- relies on “voluntary donations”. Even when I quoted from a member of the governing body, he was reluctant to believe – cognative dissonance ! I did ask Peter ( his name)to listen ( which he said he had already done ) carefuly to the broadcast again.
I had spoken with Peter previously ( and many of his friends from the Wilmslow and Hazel Grove ( Stockport )congregations.A number of them, including Peter today, thought I must be an ” apostate”, as I appear to ” know a lot ” about JW teaching/history!He initially refused to believe me when I said was not an apostate – he said he heard a ” rumour” I was!
I continue to have regular discussions with local JWs . They will engage in discussions with me ( usually on theological/Biblical matters)as I am very careful in my approach.From time to time I will mention something like the UN or Australian Royal Commission.I try to “..dispence spiritual food at the proper time ! “Who knows such discussions may lead to the ” awakening” of a JW and to freedom..I find that if I continue to maintain a “relationship ” with my local JW`s based on a genuine concern for them, combined with good scholarship/ Biblical knowledge and a knowledge of Jw history, new light etc, that I can sow ( I hope ) some seed for thought into a JW mind that is saturated in a cult framework.
When Ceders book comes out I wonder If ( based on my
relationships” years of discussions with local Jw`s) whether I may find myself refering to the book – as as many of those I speak to know Ceders personaly!
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@Bill Wilikinson
Funny that your a Witness friend was willing to believe “rumors” that you’re an apostate, but refused to believe factual information from direct quotes – even those statements directly from the GB.
As is common with cults, they use thought-stopping techniques to block comprehension of any information that is critical of the group. This is why your friend dismissed the UN involvement, the ARC, and the begging for funds immediately out of hand without really even giving any consideration to the facts.
WS
Music Unites :) Why change so many songs that united and created such positive nostalgia? (what a bone headed move by WT)
I recently attended a memorial/funeral service at the KH (I faded many yrs ago) it felt really strange! I was kinda looking forward to singing a song and focusing on some of the pleasant times of my JW past. Unfortunalty, that didn’t happen! None of the songs were familiar to me, the congregation seemed so disconnected… holding their ipads/tablets just seemed creepy… like drones! Very few people under the age of 40 were in attendance. I left & felt really sad for them! Most of my JW friends & some JW family now soft shun me for fading. I committed no biblical sin, all I did was stop going to the KH and for that many people withdrew their love. As I looked around the KH I found it hard to believe that this was once my tribe.
@Dazi
My awakening occurred just after they switched to the new songbook and I believe it helped to break the hold the org had on me. I was about 9 or 10 when the previous brown-covered songbook came out and I recall that it also retained many of the favorites from the pink songbook.
Since I had heard all those songs since infancy or childhood, there was a strong emotional connection to them (even after being faded for 4 years I will still catch myself humming one – talk about indoctrination!). But those new ones they put out had no emotional connection for me. I think that may have helped me to be more aware of the incessant dogma and indoctrination that was being put out at meetings and assemblies. The nostalgic, emotional connection was broken and what remained was seen for what it really was.
WS
Your getting old Winston, the new generation really digs it.
https://youtu.be/etqMhly5_g8
Check out her talent and read the comments.
I Believe that this is just “Another Example” of the “Secret Tactics” which the WTB&TS uses….to quietly get inside a “JW’s” Mind……into their “Thought Process” so they will see the Contribution Box and go insert a check/cash……and when I was active….they sure took our checks eagerly and cashed them locally. Who knows really where the Money went?
I provided the “Lighted Ceiling” over the Theater in the Round when the WTB&TS bought it from Bob Hope for millions of dollars back in 1974…….8,000.00 was billed by us to the Contractor (JW in charge of Re-Model) and I never got paid one dime? Gee…..I guess I contributed eh? Trust me…..thats when I got out for good as they totally lied to me, embarrassed me and they knowingly had no intention of paying for that beautiful ceiling over the Platform…..thinking that we could afford to simply “write it off”????? And they were no where to be found after the Assembly Hall in the Round was completed in Woodland Hills California…..I then realized for the “Last Time” that the Society works under a different set of rules and laws which are slanted towards them and no one else!
Can’t you file a lawsuit for what they owe you financially ?
ARJAY – by any chance did you know my pops (Frank Kish?) He use to be on the building committee in California/Nevada back in 1980’s/1990’s. He passed away years ago but got really frustrated with all that stuff too just like you.
John 6:68: “Simon Peter answered him: “Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life.” You show me another organization that is announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom and I’m there, otherwise I’ll gladly put up with the imperfect men in the lead of Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Tim, the answer you are looking for is in the scripture you quoted. The apostle asked that question because he knew that no man could take Jesus’ place. That is why we are told to follow Him alone. Jesus said that He is the way, the truth, and the life and that no one gets to the Father except through Him. Don’t you think that if we could only get to the Father through anointed, or the governing body, or anyone else that he would have mentioned it in that scripture? You don’t have to put up with any imperfect men, and if you want to announce Jehovah’s kingdom, then announce it. Go out and share the bible with your neighbors and friends if you want, you don’t need an organization to do that.
Dear Tim, ( October 4, 2016 )
The fact that you are reading JW SURVEY is encouraging ( the ” imperfect men in the lead of Jehovah`s Witnesses ” would strongly disagee with you even looking at an “apostate site”).I hope you continue to research what other well meaning and informed voices have to say about the organisation; as opposed to reading just material from the Watchtower Society.The “Truth”( a favourite term used by Jehovah`s Witnesses for the Organisation) should be able to stand firm( if it is the truth )and not be afraid if well argued and provable light of a critical nature reveals serious problems with the Organisation.
The Boreans ( Act 17 v11 ), are often used ( by Jehovah`s Witnesses) as an example of examining what has been said to determine its truth.Using their example of testing things you should not in any way be afraid to examine what the Organisation says ( about so many issues ), but rather continue to probe for the truth about the “Truth”. You could be richly rewarded with your freedom from what can only be described as a dehuminising organisation; much could be said on that matter.
You quote John 6:68.Did you understand what the text says ? It is Jesus ( not an Organisation that has usurped the Christ ) that has the words of eternal life. According to the Bible you simply go to him… John 6:35 Again, quite clear, Jesus says ” I am the bread of life. He that comes to ME will not get hungry at all…” No reference to being fed ” ..food at the proper time..” ( by an Organisation founded in the 1870`s ). The use/interpretation of the parable ( matthew 24), to jusify what the “..imperfect men in the lead..”.say about the “faithful and discreet slave” has no Biblical/exegetical justification at all -it is simply made up.The Organisation have no recognised Biblical scholars and have long been noted for their lack of scholarship.They do, however, know how to alter the Greek text( in the New World Translation )to fit in with their theology!
You mention ” Jehovah`s kingdom”- have you attempted to read the Bible and do a study on what the Bible says on the subject of the “Kingdom”. Use a Greek /English Interlinear to help you in your Biblical study. Wescot and Hort used to be used by JWs. I do not think it is used these days – the Greek text shows serious problems in the New World translation. This is all material you can research.
You seem to have put your trust in a group of men in New York. Do examine what they claim( like the Boreans). Continue to follow your deep instinct – the fact that you have looked at JW survey shows you feel some freedom to research.Don`t be captive to a concept.
Your mind/life was not meant to be held captive by an organisation – freedom/truth lie ahead for you. Just continue to do research; their is plenty of exellent material on the internet.So long as you don`t let those “imperfect men in the lead of Jehovah`s Witnesses ” know!
Tim,
I used to think that way too. But then I read the Bible for myself:
“Simon Peter answered him: ‘Lord, whom shall we go away to? You have sayings of everlasting life. We have believed and have come to know that you are the Holy One of God.'”
Now, surely no one would be presumptuous enough to quote words directed at Jesus and apply them to themselves: in effect claiming to be “the Holy One of God”! Unless, of course they were “false Christs”: people who “improperly ascribe to themselves the role of Messiah” (which the Watchtower defines as an “Antichrist.” http://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989207 )
Most Christian religions recognize the fact that “Jehovah” is not the name of the God of the Bible, and that it is an invention of a medieval Catholic monk (heck, even the Watchtower admits this fact! http://smmcroberts.net/blog/contest-rename-this-religion/#yhwh ) That’s why no one else is proclaiming “Jehovah’s Kingdom,” and probably why you shouldn’t either.
According to Wikipedia: “the phrase Kingdom of God is often interpreted in many ways to fit the theological agenda of those interpreting it.” The Watchtower, of course, will be the only organization espousing its own particular interpretation, furthering its own agenda of holding out a carrot on a stick in front of its “publishers” (i.e. slave laborers.) No surprise there, but no reason to stay there, either.
If the “announcements” made by this organization concerning “Jehovah’s Kingdom” have always been wrong, how can we hold that up as a reason to stay in the org.? When I was a Witness the “announcement of Jehovah’s Kingdom” was that the folks who saw 1914 would live to see the kingdom on earth. That announcement has proven dead wrong. It was a false prophecy. What sort of organization makes false prophecies? A true prophet or a false prophet? The answer is as obvious as what your next step should be.
Tim This is a well written reply and logical. I hope it resonates with a few new curious. This religion has made some hefty claims over the years so must expect some sort of discipline to come. Even the jews in Jesus day expected a response upon their children. So how will the Gb get off “scot free”? When people use the Where shall we go to?” card they need to look at us who are liberated. We did not get struck by lightning and I am not left begging for bread just yet. We manage and do not have to give, give ,give til bled dry, Just a thought will the new Gb member (seeing as they did not pick me!!!) be younger more sort of eyecandy for the mass and generally more appealing to the younger newly announced anointed? After all they will have to move with the times and keep the stupid youth in . My new light prediction they will announce soon all can have a nibble and a sip next year but it will be by money subscription only. Lloyd can we have a new light predictions column. I think these clueless bozos need our help save them the bother of sitting round a table making stuff up. It seems to me the guys on the out are more in the know of what is going on. You have to laugh don’t you. Cheers Ruthlee.
@ Steve McRoberts and Tim:
“When I was a Witness the “announcement of Jehovah’s Kingdom” was that the folks who saw 1914 would live to see the kingdom on earth. That announcement has proven dead wrong. It was a false prophecy. What sort of organization makes false prophecies? A true prophet or a false prophet? The answer is as obvious as what your next step should be”.
I was around then as well. What I asked my elders when they came to visit me and family when we faded was this:
If Jehovah God the Almighty is infallible and his perfect son is also infallible, then it stands to reason that the Holy Spirit, poured out at Pentecost, which emanates from God is also perfect.
That being stated, even imperfect men were used to write the Bible but were born along (inspired) by the Holy Spirit so as to make no mistakes especially in doctrine.
So, if the Governing Body, supposedly appointed by God and has his blessings in the form of Holy Spirit is continually making adjustments in doctrine with changing interpretations of scripture; can it truly be said that they have God’s infallible Holy Spirit or are the Governing Body just a bunch of elderly, imperfect, men who are just guessing? That was when my elders beat a hasty retreat and have not contacted me since. Critical thinking in action!
@Tim?
WHat kingdom at ethey announcing Tim? honestly. The 1914 Kingdom is a false Kingdom that has proven to be a lie and never was installed “INVISIBLY” as they say and claim. The kingdom of the 1914 Generation that for sure, without question WILL NOT pass away and was on the inside cover of the AWAKE for 50 years ? Tim, I felt the same as you for years but I had to realize the CONVOLUTED confusing ever changing message they try to preach is just that and it is not the Real Kingdom of God. If it was something they teach would have come true. they have a 100 % failure rate on any prophetic messages including the 1914 Kingdom. Sorry Tim, We cannot defend the undefinable. Nothing personal Tim but you and I know it cannot be true. Let God be true but every man a liar.
Nonsense! You’re asking to find another organization that teaches the same things of Jehovah’s Witnesses. If the Witnesses do not teach the truth, it is irrelevant whether there is another better organization. First of all you should abandon that which teaches falsehood.
This website is part of an organization truthfully announcing Jehovah’s Kingdom. Your brothers and sisters right here have fearlessly rejected false teachings while spreading the good news, even under persecution from the organization or the wicked world. It requires more faith to push forward into the unknown than to hold onto former things like Lot’s wife did. Is this community forum not our congregation? You really don’t see the lord’s hand here? We are still your brothers!
I’m just wondering how long a comment could/ should be awaiting moderation. The discussion has fizzled out by now. Some comments appear completely rude, hurtful, or at least unproductive. Why hold up positivity?
Hi Tim, I used to feel the same way! My go to saying was “I don’t know anyone who’s left the organization that’s better off!” Then, I would have a couple examples of people/family members that left & had a lot of problems in their life. But, the fact was … I was fooling myself! The reason their life had problems was because they were abandon & shunned by their family! The psychological trauma of shunning profoundly effective them and they couldn’t cope! Also, I only focused on the ones who’s lives suffered for leaving when in reality I didn’t really know how all the countless others who left were doing because once they stopped attending they became non-people to me (so sad). Waking up was the most traumatic event in my life so I feel for you! I can testify to this, I would gladly pay the cost for leaving again! We have so many truly wonderful friends now. I gave myself permission to read any book I wanted!…lol…Wow! How sad and archaic is that? Looking back, it all seems so silly! Keep doing independent research and remember Paul’s comment “Test you faith”! Doing research using only material that’s been filtered and then funneled thru the Org’s website is simply a joke and would not be a correct/thorough way to research. All the best! :)
Tim, the point is that we need to be good Christians to survive Armageddon, not good Witnesses. There are plenty of people who are good witnesses, but how many of them are good Christians? With the lack of love I have seen in the organisation, I would not be surprised if Jehovah has already rejected it. So it might be a good time to start thinking of a Plan B. When the witnesses go bankrupt, or split into smaller groups, or slowly fade away due to the lack of love (get prepared for some annual decreases) you are going to need a Plan B.
That is the best ‘keep you in the organisation’ biblical quote of all time. You can go anywhere that is NOT shoving religion down poor suckers throats. I have been reading about philosophers and read that the Stoics believed in The Logos hundreds of years before Jesus. It represented a sort of universal guidance that was contributed to by all members of society. The early Bible writers must have known of this as it was expounded in common Greek which they spoke. So the Bible stole ideas from Philosophers and the Watchtower have the nerve to warn against reading philosophy. Once again, because it will wake people up to their evangelical ‘holy roller’ money-begging lies. I see no difference between the GB and Oral Roberts or Billy ‘fill-the-buckets-with-money’ Graham.
Best leave them to it then KTM. What say we roar off to Southend on our bikes, knock over a few trash cans, frighten some old people and steal licks off children’s ice creams. The look’s on those kid’s face’s. Priceless!
I’m not a fan for the quoting of scripture in order to make a point, the trouble being, all scripture is open to interpretation, hence the existence of so many religions and each and every one of them is the ‘right’ one while all the others are in apostasy. Common sense works better for me.
We’re all dismayed when an estranged man can’t handle the rejection of his partner or wife and so murders her for ‘not loving her’. Being totally tuned in to anything negative in order to validate their mindsets, JW’s will say “see how terrible the world is” when this happens, but are totally living for the day when their chosen god murders 7 billion mostly beautiful people for not loving him, even the ones who have never heard of him. Then it becomes ok, thumbs up, right on, clap clap clap, teach them, they got what they deserved, etc etc. The JW idea of justice.
This sort of mindset is a sickness beyond description and belongs to the truly selfish! And these ridiculous people view themselves as being the most loving people on earth.’ The Lucky Ones’. If only they could see themselves.
It’s been said to me that I’m not strong enough to accept jehovah, which always leaves me speechless. By not accepting jehovah, I lose nothing and keep everything. Everything life has to offer is there for me, but the GB want to snatch that option away. They want my life in order to further their selfish needs. They want to steal from me. They’re most eager to ‘love’ me!
To all you JW’s out there – the next time you enter the KH, be careful not to trip over the 50yrs worth of child abuse cases that the ‘Truth’ has been hiding, while at the same time teaching you, like children, to wag your fingers at the catholics and say “that proves they are a false religion”. You have a god that does one of two things;
(a) he sends a pedophile to a child,
or (b) merely stands by and thinks “I’m going to get you for that”.
A JW will chose ‘b’ because much suffering is called for, apparently.
Sickness upon sickness.
In “Star Trek 5: The Final Frontier” Spock’s half-brother leads them to a place where “God” resides. Here’s an interesting quote [selected portions removed]:
Kirk: What does God need with a starship?
“God”: Who is this creature?
Kirk: Who am I? Don’t you know? Aren’t you God?
“God”: You doubt me?
Kirk: I seek proof.
“God”: Then here is the proof you seek.
[Shoots Kirk with lightning]
Kirk: Why is God angry?
“God”: He doubts me.
Spock: You have not answered his question. What does God need with a starship?
“God”: [shoots Spock with lightning; then addresses McCoy] Do you doubt me?
McCoy: I doubt any God who inflicts pain for his own pleasure.
I similarly ask, what does Jehovah need with silver and gold?
You received free, then give free.
Perfect answer .im a star trek fan .this also sounds like a battle with the borg queen .you will be asimillated resistance is futile .our thought will become one..
Hi John,
Though not my favourite film of the Star Trek saga, your points certainly fit in with the topic at hand. Hats off to you. God’s supposed organisation (oops sorry, new light, “the earthly part of God’s organisation”) would indeed punish people for asking questions!
I remember that Jesus as a twelve year old asked the Pharisees many questions and they were gracious enough to answer him sensibly. I wish my elders would treat me like that when I ask them questions. I wish the branch would answer my questions. They answered my first question, but after that they thought ignoring me would work better. How Christian!
Wow. This aught to get a few more disillusioned witnesses thinking…maybe. How blatantly manipulative to use the songs for canvassing!
Wow, now that takes some real gumption to be that boldly demanding of one’s finances. Take my silver and my gold/nothing will I withhold, the publishers commit to give all they have, if they take this seriously. Combine this message with the video of the group hiding from “the man” you can only conclude that things at headquarters have gone from worse to panic time.
They ORG is coming down hard on Faders, taking ownership of the publishers assets, as well as feeling that they are under assault. It’s going to be a very bumpy night friends
They say that they have changed songs in the past as they were too much like the ones in Bablon the Great. This one is SO MUCH like the following:
Take my life and let it be
Consecrated, Lord, to Thee.
*Take my moments and my days,
Let them flow in endless praise.
Take my hands and let them move
At the impulse of Thy love.
Take my feet and let them be
Swift and beautiful for Thee.
Take my voice and let me sing,
Always, only for my King.
Take my lips and let them be
Filled with messages from Thee.
Take my silver and my gold,
Not a mite would I withhold.
Take my intellect and use
Every pow’r as Thou shalt choose.
Take my will and make it Thine,
It shall be no longer mine.
Take my heart, it is Thine own,
It shall be Thy royal throne.
Take my love, my Lord, I pour
At Thy feet its treasure store.
Take myself and I will be
Ever, only, all for Thee.
*Some hymnals insert this couplet after the “silver and gold” couplet.
Bill Wilkinson’s experience is similar to a very recent one
of mine. Yesterday Oct,5th in the city of Leeds, I
approached a JW on trolley duty.
I said what they were doing didn’t seem very productive,
he replied “nevertheless they were giving a public witness”
and he gestured toward the crowd that were milling about
and said “There were many good people who wanted
answers and who might be prompted to look into what
we are offering”.
I asked, “If there were lots of good people in the world why
would God want to kill them at Armageddon, even babes
in arms?” His face kind of tightened up a little and he said
“parents were responsible for training their children, and
so the children would grow up to be like the parents”.
That comment reminded me of Fred Franz’s callous remark
“Little rats grow into big rats”.
The JW added that “We don’t know JHVHs mind and can’t
second guess whether some will be spared,” I pointed out
that his reply was just avoiding the issue, and that he,and I
knew the societies teaching on this was unequivocal, and
that anyone who was not a JW would be destroyed at
Armageddon. I left on friendly terms leaving the way open
for a further session. Many thanks to JWsurvey,
JWfacts, and all who comment here for providing the
ammunition to fight mind control.
“Leeds, Lovely Leeds” (Alan Partridge). Remember our conventions years ago at Ellend Road. Are they still in financial difficulty? (Leeds FC not the WTS)
On a more serious note, most JWs never even think about the issue Twmack raises: that the WTS teaches that every non-JW will be destroyed at Armageddon. I myself certainly never did before I was awakened. Then, using one’s own critical thinking, it doesn’t ring true that a loving God would do that just because someone doesn’t bear the label of his current “chosen people”. Look how many people in the past had God’s favour, even though they weren’t associated with his people (if you can’t think of any, then here’s one: Job. He belonged to one of the “pagan” nations too) so in the end that’s up to God to decide, not the WTS!
@Average Joe
To your point;
Acts 10:34-35 Then Peter began to speak: “Now I really understand that God doesn’t show favoritism, but in every nation the person who fears Him and does righteousness is acceptable to Him.”
Seems to indicate that there is no special group that has God’s favor. Rather everyone stand’s individually. If Russell got anything right, it was that there was no need for any specific denomination of Christianity. They only serve to divide. Of course Watchtower won’t tell you that he taught that.
WS
Average Joe, I am surprised that you never asked this question while you were a witness. It is, like, one of the basic questions we would ask mum from small. And mum would answer,”Well, what did Jehovah tell Abraham before he destoyed Sodom and Gemorrah? He said he would not destroy any good people. Jehovah can see people’s hearts and he won’t kill any good ones.”
As we grew older we recognised that this teaching didn’t agree with the Society’s explanation, but like many things we get to choose what we really believe as a JW, and I knew inside my heart that the Society had got it wrong. Maybe one day soon they will get it right. But whether the GB does or not, we know what kind of god Jehovah is: a loving, kind, compassionate and caring God.
……so long as you kiss the insecure ego-maniacs rear-end for all eternity. Sounds like the life!
Silly me, yesterday was Oct, 4th not 5th, just a
Senior moment folks, if I hadn’t drawn my pension
today I wouldn’t have spotted the error. The
rest of the account is ok though.
Good, I was beginning to think only homosexuals and child molesters were gettin’ attention here. I’m glad to a see different topic. The other two made my brain fly.
Nah!, sorry, Hardy. The child abuse and the surrounding secrecy and total hypocrisy is the atom bomb and it needs to kept to the fore. Drop that one at a JW dinner party and all you’ll hear is the crickets because it’s the absolute squirm inducing truth and cannot ever ever be scripture d away, hence the deafening silence from the GB. They may continue to smile, but the eyes just don’t have it.
I felt the same as you, Dazi…went to KH..it did feel creepy, cold and distant…Man was I glad to leave! Is it…or is it because we have learned sooo much since ….I thought about it, and no…same as when in younger years as kids…we dreaded to go to the KH…Oh how we hated it! Dad drove slowly there…and we were all quiet…on way back…whoohoo! Dad drove faster…we were all happy! Free…til next mtng! :( Then same old process…glad to be free of the horrid control! :). Their yoke is not the one Jesus spoke of…Not singin their songs or dancin to their commands…Busy over here worshippin Durak, like my Jw cousin accused me of! First of all…got to ask the Goggle Gods…Who the heck is Durak! :) Gonna check in bit…thanx for all info…I am kinda thinkin…he was a false god…kinda like the gov. body…that required his worshippers give him all…life, money, possessions, money…money and more money…should be commin soon if not already…article Wt…in Oct. usually came…not?…How to praise and honour Jehovah…$$$$ Sell your goat…and give $ cuz they are not goat herders in Wacky Hill…Got to love it! Freedom is awesome!
Hi Sharon- Comforting to know we aren’t alone
Sharon- I’ve heard the term “Durak” … I think it means “Stupid or Idiot”? I’ve got some Russian family members & it was thrown around occasionally ..like…”What a Durak!” or “Don’t be a Durak!”. It’s defiantly duragatory :(
Regarding singing at the KH. The last time I went was the memorial service for my grandmother and of course songs were song and most likely none she would have chosen. But what my friend and I noticed was that everyone singing sounded like they were comatose, anesthetized and half dead and this wasn’t because they were sad, many of them didn’t know my grandmother.
It’s just that this is a joyless, soul sucking belief system and it shows when they try to sing the awful, weird songs.
And of course the memorial service for “loved ones” are a total joke and just an excuse to cram their BS about the “new system” down “unbelievers” throats.
No one can go to the podium and say something good about the deceased…..no it has to be a canned bunch of horse puckey from the WT corp.
I so agree with you. I went to my first non-witness funeral about 6 months after my last meeting. It really hit me there how I couldn’t go back, thinking about my inevitable funeral as a JW. I was hysterical over the idea that after a long life of believing the foolishness, NOT living forever, I would be in my casket while a commercial is held using my death as propaganda for the GB. Even that last moment has to be used to preach. Solidified my resolve to never return. Couldn’t have a witness funeral, literally, over my dead body.
@Average Joe. It looks as if they’ve abandoned
Elland Road football ground as a convention venue.
We now have a new indoor concert arena in Leeds
holding 13 and a half k, they used this for their last
district shindig and were expecting 7 k.
As for the Mighty Whites –( LUFC ) things are on
the up 5 wins from the last 6 games and crowds of
over 27 k.
When it comes to a choice of either religion or
football, I guess it’s no contest, as one former
Liverpool manager put it.–“Some say football is a
matter of life or death but I can assure them it’s
much more serious than that.” LOL Best wishes t.
As they have no inspired talents of their own the Jehovah’s Witnesses, more specifically the Watchtower Bible & Tract Society have to pilfer material from others and adapt it to their purposes (pretty much like when they wrote their own Bible using and twisting the work of others).
It is clear from an even cursory perusal of the hymns reproduced above that they are an adaption, if not a plagiarism of Frances Ridley Havergal’s (1836-79) glorious hymn, Take My Life and Let it Be. This hymn is still sung today by evangelical and reformed churches.
DEAR JOHN (JUAN) IS YO SHO YO IS NOT A PUERTO RICAN FROM DA SOUTH BRONX, N.Y.C., U.S.A., AS YU DUDES SAY ” ACROSS THE POND” . BECAUSE YU SOUNDS LIKE YU IS FROM THE HOOD.. BECAUSE OVER HEAR WEEZ SAY ” YOU CAN’T HUSTLE A HUSTLER, YOU CAN’T BULL SH–T A BULL SH–TTER AND YOU CAN’T PLAY A PLAYER”. HA HA HA’ GREAT WORK I LOVE ALL YOUR ARTICLES. VERY INFORMATIVE AND HONEST. YOUR AN INSPIRATION AND A BREATH OF FRESH AIR. JW SURVEY IS A VENT TO LET OUT ALL OUR FRUSTRATIONS BECAUSE MANY OF US EX-JWS ARE DISILLUSIONED AND ANGRY . THANK YOU. P,S, I HOPE EVERY ONE ENJOYED MY INTRO
Dear Edward, not just you Ex-JWs are disillusioned and angry. How about us present JWs? I think we are equally disillusioned and angry. We get together in groups and talk about all the rot we see happening and try to find others in the congregation of like mind. We are concerned about what is happening and why more of the other JWs cannot see it. But rest assured, we are making them squirm. See, we can answer at the meetings and bring attention to the weird things that are happening. And we can ask our brothers what they think about the findings of the Royal Commission. And when we are asked,”Wasn’t that past convention wonderful?” we can say that the victims of this organisation who are hoping for love and care would be feeling very angry about that convention. We can say it. And believe me, we do say it.
Obsolete song books, thousands of tons of other
obsolete publications that people have wasted years
studying, and are now just an embarrassment to them.
In view of all this, where do they get the guts to make
statements like the following?–“We will also increase
our joy if we prayerfully and diligently study God’s
spirit inspired word and Christian publications prepared
under the spirits guidance.” W,T, March 15, 1992 pp21-22.
An utterly bogus claim, and you’ve got to feel pity for
anyone who cannot make the connection.
And would it not come under the heading of “Grieving
the Spirit” by claiming that it, inspired such humiliating
rubbish? That even they themselves would would
prefer to forget.
@ Twmack:
Yes indeed. The forest of trees that could have been saved for printing out this malarkey would stagger the imagination! Makes one wonder how many endangered animals lost their habitats printing this “the Kingdom is a commin” nonsense?
Remember “type and anti-type”? Months and months studying that tripe and now that doctrine has been swept under the carpet with the rest of their discarded prophesies and failed predictions.
Yes, pity is exactly the emotion that I feel at those poor duped souls whom I affectionately refer to as ‘sheeple’. Will they ever wake up from the noxious purple haze of falsehood issued from the so called “faithful and discrete slave”?
Thank goodness we have a place on this site to help those truth seekers seeking to escape this barbaric, false-Christian, pedophile protecting, hypocritical Cult.
Many thanks to ‘Cedars’ and contributing staff for their good work and well thought out articles.
Hi everyone. I have been kinda new to this page and follow the news and comments.
I grew up as a JW but never got baptized. I am not activ since quite a time now and try to get everywhere information. It’s hard to talk to JWs about their religion especially if their so focus and think their are right.
Tata, you just need to find the right ones. There are some of us JWs who have a brain and can think out of the box and who are not just lemmings. Maybe two or three in each cong. Usually they are the victims, ones who have had their eyes opened whilst the elder shepherds have been kicking them in the guts.
Hi Tata,
if you’re after the truth about Watchtower, you’ve come to the right place.
You’ll soon learn that the ship has hit the rocks,
the waters pouring in,
and there’s no scripture to plug the hole.
Due to the serious upward tilt, the joint captains are losing sight of the horizon.
The word from the bridge is “don’t tell the passengers”.
The band continues playing, and anyone who so much as looks sideways at a life-raft is quickly pushed overboard.
Welcome to dry land.
@ Outandabout:
And the band played on. Great analogy, witty and quite to the point.
Yes indeed Tata, welcome to dry land. You’ve made it!
I know it’s just all my family is still in.
I can see song 50 being top of the pops at all
assemblies.
Sung straight after the financial report.
This hymn seems to be based on the old hymn written by Frances R. Havergal as found in “Hymns Ancient & Modern” –
“Take my life, and let it be
Consecrated, Lord, to thee;
Take my moments and my days,
Let them flow in ceaseless praise.”
The second stanza included the words:
“Take my silver and my gold;
Not a mite would I withhold.”
So, the organization simply re-inserted the original words about money. I will not comment on their motivation for doing so, but I doubt the original hymn writer was thinking about putting money in the collection plate or box. Probably the thought was that nothing was to be held back from God.