Watchtower’s much-anticipated 129th Annual Meeting was held today at the Stanley Theater, New Jersey. In an unprecedented move, the event was streamed live to 1,830 locations – a global audience of nearly 1.5 million Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Sadly I was among those without an invitation. The Governing Body does not tend to welcome with open arms those like me who are critical of some of their teachings and policies.
But thankfully I have not been left entirely in the dark, and neither has anyone else for that matter! One brave blogger going by the name of “DrJohnChrist” who attended one of the streaming locations has provided a running commentary via a thread on the Reddit social network.
Much of the hype leading up to the Annual Meeting surrounded the fact that there has been a far-reaching shortage of New World Translations over the last few months, with congregation stocks running dry. This led to rumors that a new version of the English New World Translation was in preparation – and it seems these whispers were not wide of the mark.
It fell to Governing Body member Geoffrey Jackson to announce the new release. Revised into 21st Century English with a grey cover and silver edges, a revision of the New World Translation bible has been released today with the PDF version available on Monday 7th (presumably on JW.org). This is what it looks like…
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Nicknamed the “witnessing bible” (according to Stephen Lett), a large-print version will be available in 2014 followed by a pocket version. A large bible with wide margins for note-taking is also planned. The new bibles feature a “mini reasoning book,” an “extensive appendix,” a glossary, outlined summaries at the start of each book, maps and other references.
You can check the play-by-play thread yourself by clicking here.
A sexist faux pas?
In explaining the development of the new bible, Geoffrey Jackson is said to have commented extensively on the work that was done – which included designing a new font set for copyright reasons.
When commenting on the new bible’s appearance and durability, Jackson is reported to have joked that it is both “witness-proof” and “sister proof.” Quite what this means isn’t immediately obvious, but it could be that he was alluding to a stereotype of women as being overly fastidious as to how an item looks rather than its content and purpose.
While many Witnesses would likely shrug off such a remark, it was undoubtedly sexist assuming, of course, that these were Jackson’s words. You could imagine the uproar if a politician on camera described the appearance of any item as “woman proof.” It would also not be the first time a Governing Body member has made a chauvinistic remark from the platform, as certain videos featuring Stephen Lett and Samuel Herd will show.
A revised translation
It seems that, rather than being an entirely new translation (which would require a new name) this new bible is a revised translation – meaning that it is predominantly an updated and improved version of the original English New World Translation.
About two years ago I was informed by a translator in a non-English bethel that it was only a matter of time before the NWT English version would be revised, because it was originally written in 1950s English whereas subsequent translators in other languages have had the luxury of rendering bible verses in a more contemporary lexicon. This prediction was clearly accurate.
A number of terms have thus been changed as follows (according to the Reddit thread)…
- “Long-suffering” is now “patience”
- “Loose conduct” is now “brazen conduct”
- “Fornication” is now “sexual immorality”
- “Impaled” is now “nailed to a stake”
- “Sheol and hades” is now “the grave”
- “Revelries” is now “wild parties”
- “Soul” is now a variety of words depending on context
- “Kidney” now means “deepest emotions”
- “In want of heart” is now “lacking good sense”
- “Sons of Israel” is now “Israelites”
- “Fatherless boy” is now “fatherless child”
- “Alien” is now “foreigner”
- “Ass” is now “donkey”
- “Impale him” is now “to the stake with him” (a regression if you ask me!)
- “Dumb demon” is now “speechless”
- “Loving kindness” is now “loyal love”
- “Jacob’s ladder” is now “Jacob’s stairway”
- and Joseph’s “coat of many colors” is now his “special robe.”
Parts of the gospels that are disputed have been removed, namely the long and short conclusions to Mark, and John 7:53-8:11. You will be familiar with these passages as the parts that appear in small font in the original version. This adjustment will doubtless not meet with widespread approval.
It will be interesting to see how certain key texts often used by Jehovah’s Witnesses to support Watchtower teachings have now been rendered, but without having seen the bible I am personally willing to trust that no attempt has been made to alter the meaning of verses or distort scripture. I will know more once I have seen the bible for myself.
Though this bible revision first-and-foremost represents a straightforward improvement to the original English, the extent of changes (i.e. removal of disputed gospel passages and addition of extra reference material) should necessitate new versions of bibles in other languages. Otherwise you would have an English bible that differs significantly in content from its non-English counterparts. The question of how and when other language versions will be introduced apparently wasn’t addressed at the annual meeting, so we will have to wait and see what transpires. [Edit: this question WAS in fact raised during the meeting, and Guy Pierce indicated that other language editions WOULD be released, but not in the immediate future.]
Replacement for Watchtower Library?
A new application is also said to have been announced at the annual meeting by Guy Pierce, with the insinuation that it will replace Watchtower Library.
“JW Library” is reported to include five other bible translations, and will be available for download from Monday 7th onwards from Google Play, the Apple Store, the Windows Store, and Amazon.
It remains to be seen whether a price will be attached to this new software. If there is, this could prove to be a very clever and unprecedented way of guaranteeing extra cash flow. However, I would rather give the organization the benefit of the doubt and assume it is a free download until I am able to check on Monday!
[Edit: I am pleased to confirm that this app is free to download. Furthermore, having listened to the announcement, I personally doubt JW Library is an immediate replacement for Watchtower Library, since it is only really designed for touch-screen devices. That said, it would not surprise me if there are long term plans for JW Library to be the successor to Watchtower Library.]
Anti-climax
In the build-up to this meeting, rumors were rife on the internet that there would be another major new scriptural understanding, or “new light,” unveiled. These rumors were understandable given the magnitude of the doctrinal changes at last year’s event, in which the Governing Body announced itself to be the faithful slave.
In opening this year’s annual meeting, Guy Pierce could be said to have somewhat goaded his audience and raised expectations unnecessarily.
This is what he reportedly said, according to DrJohnChrist…
“Will important bible questions be answered? Yes. Proverbs 4:18. There will be new light. The righteous ones (Jehovah’s people) will get the light. Will bible truths be refined at this meeting? Absolutely.”
You can arguably excuse the “bible questions” remark as a joking acknowledgment of the number of enquiries doubtless received at headquarters as to the lack of availability of bibles.
Even so, if Guy Pierce truly said the above, then he was leading his audience up a blind alley. “Bible truths” were not “refined” at this meeting, certainly not in the sense that people would understand that statement. There was no “new light.”
Again, it remains to be seen what Pierce’s exact words were, but if this is a fair representation of what he said to introduce the meeting, then in my view his words were misleading.
Question marks can also be raised over the words of another Governing Body member. In his Watchtower summary, Gerrit Lösch is reported to have said the following…
“It’s good for us not to have association with relatives who love worldly pursuits. Are our children acting worldly? Using worldly slang? Actively STEER children toward baptism. What are your children’s conversations like? Can they sing worldly songs by heart but not kingdom songs? Do I permit my children to play with worldly children? Do they talk only about kingdom interests?”
Firstly, surely children should not be “steered” or coerced into making a lifelong commitment that they cannot fully appreciate until they have matured? Is this not a main reason why so many youths get disfellowshipped and end up being shunned by their parents?
As to the remarks about “worldly” relatives, inactive “faded” Witnesses including me will once more let out a collective sigh of disappointment at the “us versus them” mentality encouraged by the Governing Body – if this is truly what Lösch said. Deprivation of normal family contact and association is yet again used as a tool for control and punishment, as with the recent convention reminders on shunning (which all but admitted that shunning is a form of emotional blackmail).
The future is bright
But despite the disappointments, I take great encouragement from this meeting. If the above information turns out to be verified, as I hope it will be over the next few days, it will represent the THIRD major leak over the past 12 months. First we had the leak of the October 2012 elder’s letter regarding child abuse. Then in March the so-called “new light” July 15th Watchtower was leaked on this website weeks in advance of its normal release.
Now we have a thinking Witness providing a live blog feed from inside a tightly controlled and confidential meeting where use of social media was expressly banned. The bravery that DrJohnChrist has shown in getting the word out is highly commendable, and I am excited to think of what other significant leaks of information we can look forward to in the near future as yet more thinking Witnesses inside the organization decide to push the boundaries and make a difference.
UPDATE: To read my follow-up article, click here. I am now in receipt of audio files for the annual meeting which correspond with the above notes, and I can confirm the accuracy of what was written in this article based on those notes. I would, however, like to clarify two aspects of DrJohnChrist’s notes that seem to be causing some confusion: (1) when Gerrit Lösch said that God’s will is to be completed by the end of the millennium, this has given some the impression that Lösch was referring to the end of this century, when in fact he was referring to the end of Christ’s millennial rule, and (2) the phrase “bum witnesses” was never used in Lösch’s talk. The word “bum” was used once in Anthony Morris’ talk, but only in an illustration.
Further reading…
Related videos…
In regard of changes, i have already noticed that at Hebrews1:6, the footnote in this new version(2013) says “or bow down” instead of “or worship” as in the 1984 version.
from Revelation2:23, the reference(or concordance) to Jeremiah17:10 has been removed! In Rev.2:23 for instance, Jesus is claiming to be “the one who searches…”, the one who spoke in Jer.17:10.
Evil or not Evil, the TRUTH will shine one day to the detriment of the WT. it will be late to correct anything.
Justin sve je Ok do vjerske skupine danas. Vjerskih skupina. Skupine vjernika. Bolje ne ulaziti u to. Mozemoli samo reci i danas ima ljudi koji vjeruju u Bibliju.
The witness does not need to hear I’m still jw. It’s just like you told him WTS is OK. Another issue is that you are witness to Jehovah.
Justin is all Ok just do not ask the question of religious groups today. Religious groups. Groups of believers. There comes to abuse. You’d better not go into that. Can we just say, and today there are people who believe in the Bible.
You were on the right track when you said “women were doing the bulk of the preaching work” but because of your bias, and not knowing the context, you then missed the point entirely. During the talk it was mentioned that sisters were complaining that the previous cover of the Bible was soon showing signs of wear and tear even wrinkling, and the gold lettering was fading and this was because of the sister’s frequent use of the bible in the ministry. THEREFORE they came up with a strong, durable “sister proof” cover. That is what was meant by that statement. And everyone understood it that way. It’s amazing what knowing the context does.
I cannot say for sure because I don’t remember, but it seems to me that rather that saying “do they talk about only kingdom interests?” it was more likely that he said “do they talk about only worldly interests”. That would fit the context, as the context overall was in the negative tone, and talking about kingdom interests would have been positive. So logically, IF he did say the first statement, then it is possible he made a mistake and meant to say it the other way around. And of course he did NOT mean they cannot talk about baseball, school, history, stories they invented in their heads, a new toy…I mean really??? Surely, if you are really honest with yourself you know you are talking nonsense here.
As for worldly pursuits, I think you know the answer yourself. OK, perhaps you don’t, so I will put it really simply for you: worldly pursuit is anything that stops you from putting the Kingdom (spiritual interests) first or, conversely, giving worldly interests (money and/or recreation etc. etc…..) first place in your life i.e. pursuing them above anything else. It’s based on what Jesus said, to “put first the Kingdom”.
So, before you start condemning……get your facts straight first. Coz it makes YOU sound ” harsh, judgmental, condescending, haughty, holier than thou, and self-righteous”
Cedars, I was just responding to what you were talking about. You were using the false doctrine of “sola scriptura” whether you know the phrase or not. Funny that you think Paul had “The Bible” to teach him or that he used “The Bible” to teach. Look it up again. “The Bible” had no new testament at the time Paul encountered Jesus. Paul was already Jewish. The Bible is not what made him a Christian, it was Jesus himself. And like I said, he showed his respect for Peter by his visit and by calling himself least of all the apostles. (You asked for errors to be pointed out).
Also, if you are inactive, that is pretty much leaving I thought. I left and have never gone back, but I am not DF’d. Now if you are still going out in service spreading lies about fellow Christians, that is cowardly. I am sorry to insult you if you do not participate in field service. That was my reason for the comment.
greg – I have repeatedly said in numerous comments that I am inactive so I am sure you knew this, but in any case I accept your apology.
And the fact that Paul received his orders direct from Jesus is surely evidence of less bureaucracy rather than more? What was all that catholic nonsense about keys to the kingdom? (please though, no sermons – you know the guidelines).
Cedars,
Help me understand this, so, do you mean that the article from the Watchtower are not as strong as I think because it comes from them even if they make more sense and have the Bible’s backup?
You have no open mind. If they bring up a point that make sense and after comparing it with your own Bible is correct. Why saying that because comes from them it may not be right. YOU ARE SO FUNNY WITH YOUR BLIND MIND. Note that when others post a comment that corrects yours, you never agree or accept that you where wrong. LOL
YOU ARE ARROGANT!!! and do not ask for proves when you are not willing to analyze them or take them in consideration.
You are one of a kind and are gaining what you are after ‘ ATTENTION’.
It is in vane talking with people (APOSTATE) like yourself that are harming the congregation and have no guts to bring the matters to the elders and ask for help or leave the organization and stop pretending to be someone other than yourself.
I encourage you that do things right and ask for help while you have the time to do so.
And please, do not ask for apologies when you are the one that have to apologize for trying to harm others including yourself. It’s really a shame that you are doing so.
How wise is to DISFELLOWSHIP those that do not repent from their wrongdoing. Come on Cedars!
Ok Justin, now your’re ranting, resorting to ad hominem, using CAPS, and frankly starting to sound slightly deranged. If I am really arrogant and have a “blind mind” I fail to see why that is an “LOL” matter. You are speaking out of your indoctrination and refuse to entertain any view that differs from those of the 8 men in New York whom you unconditionally serve.
Before proceeding any further with your argument I suggest you look up “cognitive dissonance” on Wikipedia. It will explain why your head is hurting so much from the things you have read on this site, and why you feel compelled to defend Watchtower even though you know deep down it is not God’s organization.
Hahahahaaaaa, you make it sound like there is something sinister going on. Come on, there are no secrets, nothing is breaking down,….you need to go and chill. Or go and read a good conspiracy book if you need some excitement in your life!
How about the secret elder’s manual, will that do? ;)
Justin on sve tvoje komentare treba DISFELLOWSHIP jer te rijeci nema na mom jeziku. Previse si se zaletio momak. Zaboravljas nedostatke svoje zajednice ili si samo njen navijac.
Blindness is the perfect soil to grow lie
Justin, I see your frustation with Cedars, it is my same frustration. The difference between you and me is that you are a JW still, and I am no longer one. It is good that you are standing up for your belief and are upset with poor excuses against your claims. It is also good that you are bold enough to be on the internet speaking, because you obviously have fire in you. But I would have to say, that you should really think about a few things Cedars has posted about that are correct, mainly the hypocrisy. Do you really believe that Jesus returned invisbly in 1914, when before it was 1874? Do you believe that the date of Armagedon in 1914 really changed to Jesus’ return. Do you really believe that Jesus lied in the book of Matthew that he would be with us until the end of time and that the gates of hell could not destroy his people? Do you believe that Charles Taze Russel is no longer the Laodicean messenger and not even part of the founders anymore because of the 1919 shift of foundation. Do you think light getting brigher and brighter means flipping 180 degrees on interpretations of scripture and being wrong about dates and the end of the world? Do you think it is okay to insult the rest of the world’s Christians by not counting them as Christians and hoping to see the day they are destroyed because it means paradise Earth? Etc, etc. Keep reading, and keep your heart burning to find truth.
There’s no secret elder’s manual.
If you study, everything is published to the public. Everything the Elders use is information that already has been discussed and published. Do not make others believe that there’s a secret information.
You can make your own manual if you put together all the subjects from the Bible.
No secret elder’s manual? Ok – now you’re lying for all to see. And you suggest I’M deceiving people. I would strongly suggest you keep your comments honest and non-misleading if you want to continue using our site.
(please though, no sermons – you know the guidelines).
How about homilies? :)
I thought you were inactive, but your current posts of being a JW threw me off. I know there are people still going in service and attending meetings that do not believe in JW, I thought maybe you meant that. Sorry again. You and me just don’t see eye to eye most of the time it seems. It’s a shame.
Apology accepted greg. And I don’t expect everyone to agree with me. Life would be boring if they did!
Greg, I appreciate your honesty but, first I would like to ask you with no offense, if you are an Apostate.
Of course, if you are and you are not honest you’ll say NO. But, if you are not an apostate, you will be able to give me the right answer.
After your answer, I’ll give you my answer about: ‘Do you think it is okay to insult the rest of the world’s Christians by not counting them as Christians and hoping to see the day they are destroyed because it means paradise Earth?
I’ve read it. There is nothing “secret”. It’s what’s called confidential. If someone expects any deep dark secrets, they will be disappointed….
Jannet, if the Shepherd book isn’t secret, why can’t ordinary publishers order a copy, and why is there a Watchtower letter specifically prohibiting elders from letting non-elders read it?
Please stop giving false information on this site or you may not be allowed to use it freely.
Actually Jannet I heard his part so I do know the context, thanks for assuming that anyone who disagrees with you must have missed something. It was grossly inappropriate to say that they went “even further than Witness-proof to sister-proof”; a casual comment became an insult very quickly. “See, even sisters can’t screw this up!” Adding the snide story of the sister who was impatient for new Bibles made it worse.
Even if they meant it innocently, wouldn’t it behoove them to use some small amount of discretion and leave out something that could so easily be construed as an insult? Sisters have put up with enough insults, degrading comments, and outright abuse from JW men to have to sit through that type of remark and story in front of everyone. “Yep ha ha ha here we go again, we stupid sisters that everyone needs to accommodate…”
What Losch actually said was, “Ask yourself, do my children most of the time talk about gadgets, sports, food, or movies? … Can they sing worldly songs by heart but not Kingdom songs?” So I guess parents need to monitor their child’s conversations and if the majority of it doesn’t revolve around Jehovah, service, the meetings, and the Watchtower (gee, what fun for kids) then changes need to be made.
Interesting that he didn’t note at what age it’s wrong for them to talk about other things “most of the time.” What do they think young children find interesting and fascinating, a Watchtower study that most adults need caffeine to sit through? Any six-year-old that talks about the Bible “most of the time” is seriously cloistered and controlled. They are not about raising healthy children who are normal, creative, bright, and free to express themselves; they’re about raising automatons.
And sorry, but when someone talks about family and uses the term “inappropriate love,” I think they’re the ones being harsh, judgmental, etc. etc. etc. Substitute “conditional” for “inappropriate” and you have JW families in a nutshell.
I think, that you are the funny, trying to defend the indefensible by attacking a person instead of facing the facts.
You believe in false sepherds, false prophets. Lets see what the jw.org says:
HAVE JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES GIVEN INCORRECT DATES FOR THE END?
Jehovah’s Witnesses have had wrong expectations about when the end would come.
…
Consider this example: A lookout in a fire tower might see what he thinks is a wisp of smoke on the horizon and sound what proves to be a false alarm. Later, though, his alertness could save lives.
Likewise, we have had some wrong expectations about the end.”
Maybe they should had read this nice tale:
A Lying Shepherd
Fairy Tales
1985
Once upon a time, there was a shepherd who was taking care of a group of sheep. Every morning, he took them to the top of the green hills to graze. He spent all day with the sheep around the farm, and he also played a flute.
Sometimes, without any reason, he shouted for help. It was his favorite to act that his sheep were attacked by a wolf. Actually, when he was asking for help, there was nothing that had happened, and everything was just fine. The people who believed him got there as fast as they could, to assist him. Then they found out that there was nothing wrong and that he was joking.
Naturally, the shepherd of our story lost his reputation by lying. Furthermore, everybody knew him as a liar. The shepherd not only didn’t care about his reputation as a liar, but also, he continued doing his bad hobby.
One day, a wolf rushed at the sheep, so he was afraid and really needed help. He shouted for help. The people heard his scream, but nobody helped him, because they thought he was joking again.
The shepherd got very sad and disappointed because the wolf took one of his sheep. He also learned a lesson: that lying is a bad hobby, so he decided not to lie from that moment on.
So what have they done with the humanity’s most important message during 100 years? Demoted it.
Or some Bible verses would have been also be enough:
Deut. 18:20-22
Matthew 7:15; 24:11, 24
Luke 21:7-8
7 So they asked Him, saying, “Teacher, but when will these things be? And what sign will there be when these things are about to take place?”
8 And He said: “Take heed that you not be deceived. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time has drawn near.’ Therefore[a] do not go after them.
Do you keep yourself to Jesus’ advice???
I honestly think this website is such a joke. DrJohnChrist? Why do you call yourself that?
Jehovah’s people and his organization are wonderful and only do things to better ourselves and others. Brainwashing? Were a nonprofit organization…
We freely sacrafise our time and love for others and spend hours upon hours talking to people in whatever kind of weather to talk to people so they can gain comfort from the scriptures like others.
What is so wrong with what were doing that you really need to go OUT of your way to attend OUR annual meeting and then come to your blog and try taking people into such negative thinking and think your doing something right?
Is that how you feel you can gains Gods approval? Or approval from man?
Because the last time I checked, our beliefs help people, save families that our falling apart & we live normal lives and are genuinely happy for it.
Rather than judging what you may PERCIEVE as being wrong, I know were imperfect but our brothers and sisters are HUMBLE enough to admit to mistakes band correct themselves.
Our dear brother did not make a sexcist remark, because I was there and what he was saying, was because sisters are out in the ministry so much more we get more wear and tare out of our bibles and hence this one is more durable, that’s why he asked us to “attempt” to bend it, to show its durability.
We print thousands of free bibles on a daily basis. And the fact that they wanted to make more durable bibles is nothing but common sense.
As for those parts of the gospels..they were NOT part of the ORIGINAL manuscripts. Please feel free to research that yourself.
Goodbye.
Greg,
I appreciate your honesty but, first I would like to ask you with no offense, if you are an Apostate.
Of course, if you are and you are not honest you’ll say NO. But, if you are not an apostate, you will be able to give me the right answer.
After your answer, I’ll give you my answer about: ‘Do you think it is okay to insult the rest of the world’s Christians by not counting them as Christians and hoping to see the day they are destroyed because it means paradise Earth?
My above comment was response to
Justin October 7, 2013 at 1:46 pm
I’ve read the manual. There are no “secrets”. It’s merely confidential. If someone is expecting some deep, dark, conspiracy type agenda….they will be disappointed…. :)
Say me that you won’t evade straight answers. I will enjoy the show =)
Oh, and Greg, I am sure you have read the “secret” elders manual. So, what secrets are there? DO let us know ;)
Apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith, therefore I am not an apostate. I am Catholic, and I was raised as a JW since I was 5 or so. I was baptized Catholic before that, so technically I was a practicing heresy and schism while I was a JW. I have since returned to the fullness of truth and am no longer in schism or heresy. I was never an apostate, seeing that the reason for my leaving the JW’s was based on God, not sin. I began to read God’s word and sure enough it is a lot more Catholic than you would think. JW do a good job of telling lies about the Catholic Church, and a lot of its members do not help the case much. Then again there were plenty of JWs that make the whole religion look foolish too, it pretty much is everywhere. It was even prophesied. I hope that helps. We as Catholics do not judge any trinitarian Christian as false Christians, and definitely do not look forward to the destruction of any human, just sin. I hope that helps.
Alright mr Catholic, lets talk about it a little. Is it the history of catholic church? Its no go area, you know it. Is it the series of war, crusades, politics, sale of indulgences, false doctrine- limbo, pulgatry, hell fire, celibacy,pope clergy, worship of images and saints, icons and idols? Too many. How about the series of pedophyls? Infact just the blood alone this organisation had poured, o God. You still have the got to talk? Till now what reform had been done there, or is it marry worship and many other false celebrations this organisation Christainised? Christainity is so divided today because of this apposte organisation and its children. You should be ashame, not to be claiming some thing you know is not true as if we too are blind like you.
Alright mr Catholic, lets talk about it a little. Is it the history of catholic church? Its no go area, you know it. Is it the series of war, crusades, politics, sale of indulgences, false doctrine- limbo, pulgatry, hell fire, celibacy,pope clergy, worship of images and saints, icons and idols? Too many. How about the series of pedophyls? Infact just the blood alone this organisation had poured, o God. You still have the got to talk? Till now what reform had been done there, or is it marry worship and many other false celebrations this organisation Christainised? Christainity is so divided today because of this apposte organisation and its children. You should be ashame, not to be claiming some thing you know is not true as if we too are blind like you………
@ Truthspeaker, it is a joke…..this is just one of the many websites made up by disgruntled witnesses, following the same pattern of all the other disgruntled witnesses, mostly ex- witnesses i.e. picking apart who said what (usually out of context) and finding fault with every little thing (also usually taken out of context). Why do they do it? Because they feel the need to find an excuse for why they want to leave…..and feel good about it.
truthspeaker Then, if you are a true witness of Jehovah, please go to the elders and tell them, that you are commenting on an apostate blog, okay?
You must be a freshman.
Jannet, talking about people right in front of them but to other people, rather than directing your comments to them, is the epitome of being passive-aggressive. I also call it childish and immature. All of us are right here, so talk to us directly, don’t try to have conversations around us.
It’s also presumptuous to think that you know why people are here and why they say what they do. When you make outright statements about people such as “Why do they do it? Because they feel the need to find an excuse for why they want to leave…..and feel good about it,” and those statements aren’t true, they’re called… I know you know this one… if a statement is not true, it’s a… rhymes with pie…
****What Losch actually said was, “Ask yourself, do my children most of the time talk about gadgets, sports, food, or movies? … Can they sing worldly songs by heart but not Kingdom songs?” So I guess parents need to monitor their child’s conversations and if the majority of it doesn’t revolve around Jehovah, service, the meetings, and the Watchtower (gee, what fun for kids) then changes need to be made. ****
This is as simple as ABC.
What he meant was, to make sure that we as parents know what’s is in our kids heart. Those are only guide lines that will help us. That’s Black and white. Don’t try to make thing too complicated. JW kids are happier when they get to love Jehovah from their heart. No doubt about it. I was a Kid that grew up while my parents taught me how to love Jehovah and I appreciated it from the bottom of my heart.
Like I already said, it is confidential. Not because it contains something “secret”, the disclosure of which would mean “regular Joe witnesses” would be shocked and would want to leave the organization (because that’s how you guys want to make it look). It is confidential because it pertains to handling mainly judicial matters, which are all private and confidential. If they were not, then every time there was a disfellowshipping it would sound like this: ” so and so is no longer one of JW because he fooled around with sister so and so and…..” In any case, like I said, I read the manual, and there is nothing disturbing about it. As you yourself well know.
Jannet, first you mischaracterize the elder’s manual, even resorting to semantics to try to differentiate between “confidential” and “secret.” THEN you mischaracterize what I think about the book, suggesting that I don’t think its contents are shocking. If you’re remotely interested in why I think instructions to elders ARE shocking (even if you missed it) read my articles on child abuse on the following link…
http://jwsurvey.org/category/child-abuse-2
Not that you will, because you seem more intent on defending the organization – even if it means resorting to lies and halftruths. Theocratic warfare perhaps?
Greg,
the truth always brings down the lie. Ask yourself this question, What does the word ‘Christians’ mean?
Those who are not following the path or steps that Jesus set for us are not called Christians even though they call themselves Christians. Mathew 1:21.
By being follower of Jesus Christ we will be doing what he ask us to do.
Now, who is preaching about the kingdom of God? (Mathew 24:14)
Who’s being the pioneers conveying the words of Mathew 7:12?
I hope this help.
Jannet,
Why are you addressing me? I didn’t say anything to you or any of your responses. But I will address some of the lies you are saying about those that leave the JW religion. Not all leave because sinful behavior, (I am sure the majority that leave is for sin) but rather because of honost insight from God. Explain to me why I would want to give up my families association and humilate myself to all that I know that I once told to become a JW? Why would I do this when I was advancing in the organization and on my way to becoming a ministerial servant? Why would I do this when I read the JW Bible in a matter of a few months? It is because even the JW Bible has enough truth in it to expose the lies that are taught by JW leaders. Charles Taze is enough to reject the witnesses, He believes in pretty much nothing JW’s believe yet he was founder!! Light getting brighter? Or pretty much just morphing religions?
Why do I still care about JW religion being wrong? Because I need my parents and siblings to get out, and they are afraid to discuss the bible with me.
Thanks for keeping us updated on everything John. This is great reading.
@ whatever – Grossly inappropriate?? Come on, it WAS a joke! Are you a suppressed women’s libber or something? It is obvious to everyone that sisters are not viewed as stupid…on the contrary. You are either a very insecure individual or just do not get the sense of what is being said.
As for raising automatons, hahaha, I have not in my whole long life as a witness seen a witness child like that.
Inappropriate love…..what do YOU think Jesus meant when he said “those who have more affection for father or mother or son are not worthy of me” ?
@ Greg, what is your honest insight from God? I am willing to discuss it with you.
@ Cedars, I have read everything there is to read on witness child abuse cases (and more). I must warn you, you are not talking to an inexperienced newby here.
Gary, there is a difference between hate and valid criticisms. Do you not think there may be a problem when not even valid criticisms can be leveled against the leadership of your organization and complete obedience and compliance is required? When people are punished, not even for mere actions but for having different THOUGHTS, is that not kind of like totalitarian governments that exist in our world, where citizens are punished for not complying with their overbearing government? There is no hate here. If it sounds like hate, it is because we have valid concerns about the organization and it’s direction, and we have people that we love dearly still in it. It is unreasonable to think that NOTHING could be wrong.
Do you realize how crazy and cult like you sound?
@ jannet perhaps sisters are not viewed as stupid but the highest position a woman can have in the organization is a pioneer or someone’s wife. Don’t you think you have more potential than to be someone else’s helper?
And don’t tell me you haven’t been at conventions or meetings where they crack jokes about women and wives being naggy and everyone laughs.
who cares about a new Bible? why didnt they mention ONE WORD about the 27 miliion dollar lawsuit that they lost to Candace Conti last year and the multiple pending lawsuits filed by the Zirkin Law Firm who are commited to taking them to trial and not setting like the watchtower has done in times past? Why didnt the Governing BBody assure their multitudes of worshippers that their children are safe? this was their perfect opportunity to tell the truth. instead, the redirected all attention to a new bible. BIG WHOOP
Look at all these comments! One big happy family. We may need to split with another article.