I suffer from depression, but even at my darkest moments, when my mind has briefly flirted with notions of suicide, I’ve always thought what a bad choice that would be.
There are just so many different ways a person’s life could be configured. So whenever it feels like there is no way out, I’ve always found myself able to reason that surely there MUST be another way of living that is less soul-destroying – even if the journey to that change of circumstances might be difficult.
Many of you will remember I was attacked towards the end of last year for voicing an opinion on “aggressive activism,” which is my definition for the goading, taunting and confronting of bewildered cult victims – either at places of worship or during their public preaching work – by indignant, vengeful exJWs.
In response to simply offering my opinion on this issue (doing so without naming any names), I was accused of being a stalker, a wife beater, a cult leader, a cyber-bully, and even a potential pedophile – with my baby daughter seemingly at risk from me.
As hurtful as this torrent of abuse has been, what has been even more alarming is the ease with which the ringleaders behind these accusations have managed to recruit a group of sympathizers, and manipulated these into believing that THEY are the true victims in this whole scenario – not me.
Also troubling is the complete lack of restraint and basic human decency from this mob, many of whom claim to be Christian. For example, two particularly vocal critics of mine called Mike and Kim are so passionate about bringing Jehovah’s Witnesses to Christ that they have apparently set up their own state-registered ministry.
These same people have sat in front of a camera to deliver a 90-minute tirade featuring all of the aforementioned accusations, apparently seeing no conflict with their Holy Book’s calls to “suffer evil” and “be peaceable with all men.”
Though I expect proponents of evangelical activism (“leave Watchtower and embrace our, correct version of Christianity”) to take issue with my openness about my agnosticism/atheism, I find it troubling that the likes of Mike and Kim have been so successful in exploiting the aggressive activism controversy as a smokescreen to pursue their agenda of trying to silence my agnostic views – to the point of hoodwinking even non-religious exJWs into flocking to their anti-Cedars banner.
When the backlash reached its zenith just before Christmas, I seriously considered breaking some of the tension with a light-hearted video in which I would sing a parody song aimed at debunking Mike and Kim’s accusation that I am obsessed with their daughter, who previously helped me with my work. I envisioned a video in which I would be seated at a piano, Gary Barlow-style, singing plaintively to a framed picture of her, delivering a mock confession of my love for her, and mourning that it was unrequited.
But thankfully I snapped out of doing this video when I remembered that the person in question has been known to suffer from depression. However funny the video might have been to some, and however successful it might have been at rubbishing the claims that I was fixated with this girl, how would I have felt if she had committed suicide soon after it was circulated? I would have felt utterly devastated, and responsible for her loss.
All about the money?
Since all of that, there has been a fresh wave of attacks. Apparently my already-long list of fabricated/embellished crimes has been added to, with claims that I am profiteering from my work as an activist (to the tune of over $10,000 per year), that I live in a “hole” of a country, that I make my wife work while I do nothing, that I “disfellowship” people who disagree with me, that I am fat and ugly (well, maybe that’s true), and that I have been too ready to defend myself in conversations with trolls on Facebook and YouTube.
I’ve mostly been able to shrug off all this mud-slinging, knowing full well I have nothing to hide.
As far as my finances are concerned – yes I have Google ads on my website, but so does JWfacts. Yes I have a PayPal button for donations, but so does JWstruggle (and a LOT of other exJW websites, none of which seem to be under siege for the heresy of accepting money). And I also plead guilty to having a Patreon button at the end of my videos for people who want to donate to my work – but nobody is forced to click through and pledge donations.
My articles and videos are available to people entirely free of charge, and will remain so.
Any proceeds from Google Ad impressions* ($125 per month), YouTube ad impressions ($110 per month), or regular donations ($63 per month) get ploughed straight into my business to help pay for new equipment and justify the considerable time spent away from my regular job (translating and proofreading) while doing research and producing content. (For example, my 2-hour rebuttal video to the Gerrit Losch JW broadcasting episode took three days to put together, which would be hard to justify if it wasn’t part of my job.)
There have been occasions where large, one-off donations have been made either to help our family (most notably when we had Jessica’s baby shower) or to assist with my activism (i.e. when two large donations were received to help fund our trip to London for the conference on undue influence) – but this money has never come with strings attached, i.e. that I must endorse Christianity and stay silent about my unbelief. My supporters have simply been willing to help out as the need arises, and they have been placed under no compulsion to do so.
Unlike many of the people who are styling me as a rich cult leader sponging off gormless followers and abuse victims, I don’t yet have a fridge, a TV, a sofa or a kitchen. I REALLY AM doing my activism because I want to free people both now and in the future from cult indoctrination. My work is offered freely, and I don’t see why I should be made to turn down acts of kindness when these are extended simply to appease my critics.
The only work I ever intend to charge for will be my book, which I will aim to price as reasonably as possible once it is finally finished and published. No doubt once it goes on sale I will receive a fresh wave of abuse from people who will quickly forget how much they paid to read the words of Steven Hassan, Jim Penton, Carl Olof Jonsson or Ray Franz and paint me as a greedy profiteer all over again – but it is pointless trying to keep such people happy.
Is blocking someone on Facebook “shunning?”
I have also come under fire for my practice of blocking people on Facebook who are either critical of my activism, or abusive towards me, or supportive/defensive of those who are abusive towards me. I fail to understand why I am obliged to use Facebook, not as a tool for keeping in touch with my friends and readers, but as an implement of ritual self-flagellation that I must use to entertain the scathing rants and banal sniping of my mostly-anonymous, mostly-evangelical critics on a daily basis.
Telling me I’m not allowed to block or unfriend people on Facebook who are nasty is like telling me I MUST stand and listen to random people shout at and berate me if I encounter them while out shopping. I am perfectly within my rights to walk away from any such situation and get on with whatever it was I was doing. I don’t HAVE to punish myself with nonsense just for the sake of it.
It’s worth remembering that nobody is forcing anyone to watch my videos OR read my blog articles. If you hate me and my work so much I have excellent news – you don’t HAVE to follow me or read/watch my work. You can do activism the way YOU want to do it, or find an activist whose videos and blogs are more to your liking. Or you can avoid taking in “apostate” material altogether, if that’s your problem.
And no, I am not in the business of “shunning” people who disagree with me. I am merely choosy about who my friends are. I have plenty of people on my Facebook friends list with whom I don’t see eye to eye on a range of issues, but I find they are able to put their points across without evangelizing or resorting to ad hominem insults and accusations, so I am only too happy to keep them in my circle and benefit from their perspective.
And frankly, I find the use of the word “shunning” in describing any situation other than estrangement from family or close friends to be an insult – especially by people who should know the difference between being prevented from commenting on a blog or Facebook page and having all contact with family terminated forever.
Taking its toll
Usually I am able to shrug off all the above silliness, content with the fact that I am doing the best I can for all the right motives, and making some modest headway in waking people up (if my email inbox is to be believed).
But today I was out mingling with some of my friends who live in my village, and something fairly innocuous happened that sent me spiraling into the realization that the level of abuse being directed at me from self-righteous keyboard warriors on the other side of the Atlantic really is starting to take its toll.
I didn’t feel suicidal, but I definitely felt a huge wave of sadness and futility.
I went home and talked to my wife Dijana about what I was feeling, and she told me she was feeling pressured by the situation too. Whenever I am talked about, or our family is talked about, by obsessive lunatics who are more fixated with me than they are with Watchtower, Dijana finds herself worrying and fretting over what effect this will have on me, and whether we are safe from these clearly disturbed individuals (bearing in mind we have already received two menacing cards through the post from an individual in America calling himself/herself “John Smith”).
What upsets Dijana most is that, amidst all this hatred and vitriol, she feels forced to put on a brave face for our daughter Jessica, because she is worried that if she lets her sadness show when spending time with our baby this might subconsciously rub off on her, or make her feel that she is somehow not living up to expectations.
Dijana also can’t help but feel enraged when she sees her picture (taken from our translation company website), being shared around on Facebook “hate Cedars” groups, the members of whom then speculate that she is the victim of an oppressive, abusive husband. If she were herself an outspoken activist, or vocal about anything beyond whale conservation, she could perhaps understand all the scrutiny – but she is content to let me get on with my activism and focus on being a mother, and thus finds it all very intrusive.
This conversation with Dijana, and the realization that the fanatical obsessions of a few troubled individuals in America are having a tangible impact on our family has led to my writing this article by way of pleading with any exJWs out there who might have been swayed by my attackers to apply some logic and reason, and show some compassion.
I am not a cult leader. I am not a leader of any sort, and would repudiate any attempts to make me one. I am an ordinary man with a wife and daughter who just happens to be an activist against a cruel cult. And yes, I happen to not be religious.
Of course I have made mistakes, and perhaps gone too far at times when confronting trolls and critics on Facebook and YouTube – but nothing I have said or done has even remotely warranted the tsunami of hatred and vitriol that has been directed against me and my family over the past few months.
A plea for decency
All I ask of my fellow ex cult-members is some basic human decency – the same instincts of solidarity and compassion that made me pull back from making a stupid piano video that I would have almost certainly regretted.
I am not a suicide threat, and my depression is manageable, but I do have a wife and baby daughter – and when you attack me with completely unfounded and specious allegations, you attack them as well. Dijana in particular really does feel the reverberations, to the point of wanting to write to some of the ringleaders herself.
It has long been a notable irony that the majority of opposition to my activism work comes, not from Watchtower or Jehovah’s Witnesses, but from my fellow ex-JWs. I’ve noticed from conversations with activists against other cults that this is not an isolated phenomenon. People who have exited other high-control groups have also been known to turn on each other, and make each other scapegoats for their issues and frustrations.
If it were only me who was taking the heat for having an opinion, and not being afraid to voice it, I think I could handle much of what I’ve been subjected to – content to simply block persistent trolls and fanatics who are hell-bent on character-assassinating me.
But when it starts to affect my family, I do feel a need to draw the line. This abuse has to stop. If you happen to be involved in any way, I implore you to please find something or someone else who is worthy of your frustrations. There are seven men in Brooklyn who export truckloads of pain and misery on a daily basis that I can strongly recommend.
***UPDATE October 2015***
Not long after this article was published, JWsurvey received a “cease and desist” letter from lawyers representing Mike and Kim Brooks. The letter, dated April 20th 2015, insisted that this page be removed and that “no further mention of the Brooks family be made by [Lloyd Evans] on his websites, Facebook, Podcast, YouTube, Vimeo, Patreon, or others.”
After discussions between myself and the webmaster, John Hoyle, it was decided that this article would not be taken down, because I had every right to respond to misinformation that was being circulated about me online by this couple in particular.
However, after discussions with someone acting as something of a go-between with Mike and Kim, it was decided as a gesture of goodwill to remove a link showing the registration of their “Mike Kim Ministries Inc” organization, on the understanding that if I would at least refrain from further talking about the couple online they would reciprocate. I readily agreed to this since I have no interest in talking about Mike and Kim Brooks or their exploits on this website or on my YouTube channel. I was also increasingly concerned that posting a link to an internet page where the couple had made their address public might undermine their safety.
A few months passed with very little being said by my community of “haters.” Eventually the hour-long rant by the Brooks family was removed from Mike, Kim and Shyla’s channels – I assume out of embarrassment over the blow-back from their thoroughly-discredited accusations that I am a stalker, wife-beater, and potential sex offender. I allowed myself to think my haters had found more productive uses of their time than to follow my every move, question my motives and fantasize about my private life.
Then, when I announced my plans for a special “JWsurvey Day” video featuring a montage of different exJWs, one of my most fixated online critics Joel Martz, AKA “The UnWitness,” uploaded a video criticizing me for planning a video in which exJWs would be shown as happy, because apparently this lived up to the stereotype of apostates as being selfish.
Around this time, there was an unfortunate incident on Facebook one evening when I was tired and irritated. A post was put up in the mostly-secular JW Podcast group, for which I am an admin, that was nothing more than a scripture with no comment or explanation. Assuming it to be an attempt at trolling by a Watchtower-apologist, I posted a meme with text that read: “Who left the gate open at the cunt farm?” I then checked to find out who the poster was, and discovered it wasn’t a JW but someone on my friends list who happened to be a Christian. I immediately deleted the post, made another post to the effect that it would be appreciated if people could refrain from putting up scripture-only posts, and thought nothing more of it.
A few days passed and I was directed to a video by Alun Williams – an evangelical Christian fanatic who had already made a number of videos ranting against me because I am an unbeliever. Alun had apparently been contacted by a lady, whose name he didn’t immediately divulge, who was upset at how I had treated her on Facebook. Though I was perplexed as to why this person had approached Alun with her grievances and not me, I contacted her on Facebook as soon as I learned of her identity and gave her a personal apology. I also issued the following public apology on the group where Sharon had been aggrieved…
Despite the apology, Alun Williams continued to issue a stream of videos vilifying me for my mistake including such titles as “John Cedars – You don’t feed us,” “John Cedars – Parasites,” and “John Cedars – Narcissist.”
Then today, on October 10 2015, I woke up to discover a fresh YouTube diatribe by Mike Brooks, who (together with his wife) I understood had moved on from his agenda against me. Having learned about the Facebook issue, Mike had taken it upon himself to be the judge and jury for something I had already issued a public apology for. The fact that it took me nine days to apologize to Sharon (simply because I didn’t keep a record of who it was I needed to apologize to, and had to wait for the name to appear in Alun Williams’ video) was shown as further evidence of my depravity. And once again, my wife Dijana was declared to be in an abusive relationship – warned that both her and my baby daughter Jessica are at risk from me.
Even more astonishingly, I was threatened with physical violence if I ever find myself in New Mexico, with Mike saying he would risk going to jail to give me my comeuppance. Apparently threats of physical violence as retribution for something someone has already apologized for can be considered perfectly Christlike behavior.
I am now getting used to the fact that the slightest slip-up, real or imagined, will be gleefully leapt upon by Mike and Kim, Alun Williams and others from the further reaches of the evangelical wing of the exJW community. What I struggle to fathom is how they can justify lambasting someone for a fairly innocuous error of judgment, who has since apologized publicly, while calling themselves Christian. Didn’t Jesus supposedly tell Peter to forgive his brother up to seventy-seven times? Why can I not be forgiven for calling someone a cunt for a few seconds before the post is deleted, and later apologizing publicly?
For the record, Mike and Kim and I were originally on quite friendly terms, but our relationship quickly deteriorated after a series of Facebook exchanges in which it became obvious that any disagreement between us, however friendly, was interpreted by them as an “attack” and “bullying.” They have since pursued activism against me with almost as much energy as they pursue it against Watchtower, seemingly for no other reason than jealousy and the fact that I do not share their religious beliefs.
I understand this update will make for uncomfortable reading, especially for those who like to think of the Ex-JW community as a tranquil haven where former Witnesses unite against a common foe. But the truth is, the “community” is nothing more than a loose-knit group of vastly different people who happen to have shared the same devastating experience.
Some try to use that experience to help others. Some channel the anger and frustration against their fellow cult-survivors. Still others go to the extreme of fixating against those who are perceived to have a bigger audience than they do, and will stop at nothing to drag them down – including inventing accusations. Such behavior highlights just how corrosive Watchtower’s undue influence can be, and makes me more determined than ever to pursue my activism, and answer my critics in the best way possible – by pursuing effective, non-aggressive, non-evangelical activism against Watchtower.
*An ad impression is when an ad is shown on a page or video. Simply by having the ad appear on the blog page you are reading, or the YouTube video you are watching, I receive a small amount of money from Google, who in turn receive money from the company whose ad was shown.
Cedars, Im so sorry you’re having to deal with all of this. I personally appreciate all the work you have put into your blog and videos. You helped me so much when I first started to wake up and leave. Initially I was very very active in the ExJw community. I also started to experience some of this behavior among the people I knew, often asked to take sides as if this were some congregation clique! I got rid of the Facebook groups and post on the Reddit forum every once in a while. My path as an ExJw still has its ups and downs. But I digress. Haters gonna hate.
I’m here to support you and your family!
With love,
Chubb
I knew that you had haters, but I had no clue as to how extreme they were in their hatred of you. Why? I simply can not understand why they would be so angry towards someone who was so calmy and mildly working to help people open their eyes towards the organization. If they are still Christian and don’t like your agnostic views, they should be happy that you so rarely use it in your denouncement of the JW’s. What do they feel they accomplish through such violence and hatred? Why are they unable to talk about issues like rational human beings? It is so sad, and it is only made worse by the fact that you, also an ex-jw like them, are the focal point of so much of their efforts. Just remember that for all those out there that hate you, there are many more of us that love you, rely on you, and owe you so much for all you have done.
-TB
This site has help me a lot.I left JW for 4 years ago.Werry afraid that maybe demons whold visit me.But thanks to this site i know that Jw is fauls and a cult. I have got my life back. I am studing to be a nurse and are married to a fine none Jw man. Thanks Cedars for a great site!
In Australia we call people like that bogans. That means someone that lacks decorum, have big mouths with nothing intelligent to say & have no self control. Idiots, I think would be another word.
John, you & Paul Grundy have helped me over the past 12 months to leave this religion behind & have the confidents to move on with my life. For so long I had these thoughts about the religion that I wasn’t game to confront out of fear & when I went searching for answers I came across so many xjw websites but yours just stood out to me & I had to keep coming back because it ticked the boxes that I needed to take the step out.
Your website is my go-to. I use your links page for keeping up with other sites that I like to visit when I’m here. I have this site saved in my favourites list.
Please take a break if you need to. I’m sure one of the other journalists here would fill the gap for you while you need the rest & if you do take a break, make sure you get the police to track down who sent the cards.
I know that we are all here sending you our support with words on a monitor but the best healing is human connection. Draw close to your little community of trusted friends. You can’t beat face to face contact. People understand. I know for me when I have had my down times, reading was a great outlet but I needed to be around people that loved & respected me to build me up again.
PS. Can you give your wife & daughter a big hug from me.
Keep up the good work and don’t let those haters get you down. You have many that appreciate your work and integrity!!!!!
I love your site and look eagerly to every article and every video you produce. I applaud your tenacity to keep this activism going.
I am truly sorry for what you and your family have had to endure at the hands of a few individuals.
best regards and good wishes
Sue
Lloyd, I think that you have certain qualities that I find lacking in others. You have great communication skills and seem to be a natural spokesperson. I can only imagine the time your put into your work, it shows. Sorry to hear about all the “sturm and drang”. I sincerely hope your don’t let it get you down. You are appreciated!
Keep your head up and stay sane in our insane experience
Let me add this explanation ( and hope it helps ):
When I started out on my journey away from the WTS I joined a few online forums and posted regularly. Participating in topical discussions and dispensing advice when people asked and I felt that my answer was useful.
Let’s contextulize EXJW forums -it’s important to think about what shapes an exjw. These are online places where people are going through the explosive process of waking up and are confronting rage, suicidal ideation and a burning need to lash out at the horrible lie they have lived. Moreover, many are facing the real prospect of shunning and losing spouses, children, family, jobs, homes and other tangible possessions. It isn’t pretty.
I noticed that with regularity when my post did not fit the status quo of the rest of the forum ( or thread of discussion) that I was mocked or belittled and/or moderators would post heavy handed comments that were a de facto way to silence. It was emotional and shocking to experience this treatment.
So I quit these forums not because I had been schooled or came to some realization that my posts were wrong and I needed to readjust my thinking to “proper exjw” think. No, I examined all the various reasons.
I realized that one explanation for the puzzling and hurtful behavior was that these exjws hated all things jw but still thought and acted just like good jehovah’s witnesses and their knee-jerk cognitive dissonance of being imprisoned in a thinking pattern from a hated source made them react rather than think.
From your blog post it seems that you are experiencing witness-like hatred and vitriol (on a grand scale) from former jw practitioners because you do not lockstep agree with their version of what a proper exjw does, says and advocates. I feel your pain.
Here’s the thing- you have to do what is healthy for you and your family. You’ve already sacrificed one life to the WTS there is no need to sacrifice another life to the cause of exjw.
You don’t need to justify or rationalize your journey away from the jw or any of your activities. It’s just a high control cult and you are not personally beholden to crusade for any or all of the exjw legion.
Just a few thoughts. I wish you the best in whatever you decide.
Hello Cedars
I wrote once to you on Facebook and I confess I was a little disappointed when I didn’t receive a reply from you. I understand you might receive dozens of letters per day, don’t worry. You helped me a lot. Since I left “them” I was feeling afraid, guilty and all kinds of things till I start reading your blog and watch some of your videos. It freed me…
I have a beautiful life, in a beautiful place, productive work which I love and I concentrate on this things, spending the most time I can with my lovely family and dogs. I have no regrets and I know that everything that happened to me up to the point that I left brought me here where I am today.
Although I was very happy to read your articles and see that I don’t owe nothing to those hypocrites every time I see some article or receive some emails with new posts, those bitterness, sad memories, and all bad that happens comes to my heart again and I don’t want that anymore. I spent 18 years of my youth working for them for free, I won’t spend thoughts or any kind of energy on them anymore. “It’s just not healthy”
If you allow someone that has 10 years of therapy to give you a small advice, I would tell you to go live your life with your beautiful wife and daughter. All the time and energy you spend with all this, spend with the people you love. This time will never come back again. Only do positive things, around positive people.
All that you’ve done so far is more than enough to free every single mind under any control. It doesn’t need anymore. You wrote your story, you made your point, you unmasked things, you don’t need to keep doing for the rest of your life. This will only aggravate any pre-disposition to depression and it can bring you something worse.
They already had a lot of your time, don’t you think? And all this hate that you are in the middle of, can’t bring any goodness to you.
I hope you be well. This is the last time I come here. I won’t spend any of my precious time, reading or talking about JW…I have a life to live and I am so exciting about it.
Take care
PS. Sorry for any mistakes, English is my second language)
Rental, You are correct! John, for the sake of your wife and baby, go and live a wonderful, free life!
Darned SPELL check…LOL. I meant to say Renato.
Cedars, you’re doing a great job. Thank you!
It is called displaced anger.
They are really upset at the WTBS, but not realizing we’re all on the same side now, attack each other.
My sisters have all left the JWs, but they still shun me because I’m Catholic and not Non-Denominational Christian.
I guess they haven’t learned the lesson of loving unconditionally, but then again we weren’t taught that either.
You are speaking out against the injustice of the abuse from the Watchrower Society. That is a good thing and you should be applauded for all your hard work.
Make improvements if its needed, but keep in keeping on. Humanity needs it.
I think all the activists do a great job, sadly some have become personal, I like Mike and Kim video’s also, have nothing against them, and find the whole thing just takes away from the good work you all do. Peace for everyone. Hope this settles down and just be focused on the main objective, telling the truth about the WT and GB, helping others and no one is an island. Love to all.
Well, Tony (Prime) has some entertaining videos with alot of nonsense and Mike&Kim have some interesting informations but they specualte too much. Their ideas are often far-fetched.
When it comes to facts and reasons i prefer John Cedars channel. I wish they all could get along without an apostate-beef.
I am feeling this particular article in more ways than I can count. I have obtained $90 in total donations, and $12 total from ads on my channel. On my Christian channel, I have made $7. People do not realize the painstaking time that goes into this, and the fact that we truly do just want to help folks. But, to offset and try to somehow contribute to our bills, we have no choice but to do small things such as a donation button and a few ads. I am so glad to hear you’ve done well monetizing, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
I have felt that same depression as well, being attacked not only by ex JWs, but also vengeful atheists put to attack my beliefs. It works both ways. Add to that some psychopath who started making videos about me, and I was ready to throw my hands up of the whole thing. I am glad to read this article. You’re not alone. Many have been there for me in support and there’s nothing wrong with letting everyone know how it feels for once.
A pastor said to me last week, “If you’re there for everyone else, who is there for you?” Makes you think.
I have watched many videos/read material on websites but you are the one who have been responsible for personally waking me and some of my friends up over the past 2 years…and for that we are very greatful. Although we are still in the organisation it is early days.
Thank you so much for all your hard work and your well balanced / reasonable approach.
On reflection I would have to agree with Renato Alves…. you have done so much to help others, you have done your bit, you can walk away happy and start living your life….that would be best for you and your family.
Best regards.
If it’s that hateful Cedars I would personally suggest you take a break. Depression is a serious condition and I hope you are able to enjoy your time with your daughter and wife while recuperating.
These persecutors of yours should take a look in the mirror. They are truly a disgusting lot.
I just want to add my twopenneth to this subject and say that my heart goes out to you and your family in this situation. Like many other ex-JWs yours is a “go to” site. Your calm logic, your reasoned rebuttal of JW brain-washing has helped me beyond measure. Quite frankly if I had come across the more bombastic sites as I was “waking up” it would have driven me right back into the arms of the Organization. It was your calm, reasonable voice that gently brought me out. Thank you. Stay strong. Know that you are respected and appreciated. And give my (our) love to your lovely, patient wife and baby. xx
Just wanted to say that your blog has been for me and many others, the voice of sanity and a real help in maintaining stability, while I exited the delusional world that I had been born in to and lived in for most of my adult life. I am in my sixties now and finally free, thanks in no small measure to your work. It must be really stressful for you and your wife and whatever decision you make regarding the future, must of course put your family first, but please know that you have made a difference!
@Lloyd(John) .YOU HAVE SAVED MANY LIVES !!! Keep up the GOOD WORK!!! The number of different Posts on this particular topic has shown how many different people you have helped & how many different ones read your website. MANY don’t comment but are helped by just reading the comments of others on this site.
I read one negative comment once saying the same few people only comment. WELL the responses to this topic have shown MANY PEOPLES do read this website probably Thousands of JWs who are Looking for the REAL FACTS not the Ever Changing Interpretations of 7 MEN in BROOKLYN!!
I’m with you cedars. It’s funny you know, despite being against the WT and its ways…I’ve thought previously about how *some* (a very few) people are better off stuck in a bible cult like watchtower…because at least while they’re a practicing member they’re under the thumb and sedated, and their shitty true character/mental issues are suppressed or kept in check. *Sighs* Theyre an unfortunate small side effect of helping the normal, decent majority wake up from these cults I guess. They’re the sort of who just can’t seem to construct or comprehend the concept of a sound argument, or understand what critical thinking is all about. I’d imagine others doing great rational work, such as Sam Harris, would also get a lot of threats and abuse from those who can’t handle intelligent retort. I respect & appreciate him for doing what he does despite the opponents he faces, and buy his works to support this- as I would yours.
Would any one listen to these people and their views if there was no internet?
The internet gives idiots a voice as much as anyone else, but Cedars that should not take away from the benefit you bring to others, often one’s like my sister who are in difficult and stressful periods in their lives.
I’m so sorry you have had to go through that, your videos and posts have really helped me immensely. I used to feel so alone in all this, but now I know there are people like me and people who lead content lives. Don’t let frustrated people get you down. I know what it means to be depressed because there’s just too many things that get piled up – just take a break, be happy with your family. You’ve already done so much.
Take care
natalie
Being the egotist that i am, since i didn’t see my own comment here, I’m leaving another one :)
Sorry to see that you have to deal with these kind of people. Don’t bother trying to explain to them the work you have. The material you create actually educates people. Compared to your videos, all they do is rant to a camera, and i think they are clueless about their own dumbness. Keep doing what you are doing, hope things get better with your depression, i relate to that, and its almost always a side effect of growing up a JW. Don’t be afraid of threats because they are as empty as they are. Also what you make in ad revenue on youtube does not cover the work you have in my opinion.
Chin up fella! There’s a lot of love and respect for you out here in internet-land.
As a fellow ex-jw blogger, I have only the deepest respect and admiration for you, Lloyd. Yours is the calm voice of reason speaking out in a land often marred by vitriol.
As you have been so successful at what you do, I think it has caused some jealousy amongst other ex-JWs who lack the skills you possess.
I too have seen this in other contexts. In the animal-rights movement, for instance: instead of working together there is much in-fighting of one group against another. The most popular of these groups is the one that gets the most flack (even to being accused of being “a cult” and acting in ways diametrically opposed to its own philosophy!)
So, I think that just by being in the limelight you’re being exposed to the darker side of human nature here. If it wasn’t you occupying that spot at the moment, those who need to hate would direct their hatred towards someone else. Nonetheless, I know that personal attacks are hard not to take personally!
No one could blame you if you should decide to retire and look back proudly at the excellent body of work you have achieved. The ex-JW community will have lost a powerful voice, but family and sanity must come first for each of us.
With 100% support for all that you do, and for whatever you decide to do:
Love you, buddy,
–Steve McRoberts
Keep on, keeping on. You are doing a fantastic work, Cedars, and we are behind you all the way.
We live in Canada.
Just read this amazing article and good on you for writing it john cedars.i agree it has to stop. Cos its plainly to see you love your wife and daughter. Thanks for sharing and yeah i do hope the haters stop picking you and your family .
Keep your head “Cedars”, do not let those fools a room for the Watchtower Society to exploit. The GB will now have, as opportunists, another chance to say that “apostates are mentally diseased”!
You totally remind some ladies here of the guy that plays Leonidas from the movie “300” so cheer up. It can’t be all that bad for you.
Keep up the writing.
Cedars,
You’re a good bloke and what you do is amazing. I love your site and think you have a real knack for writing interesting and just articles. And a lot of people are fat and ugly so I wouldn’t let that worry you.
Cuthbert.
“And a lot of people are fat and ugly so I wouldn’t let that worry you.”
What are you saying, Cuthbert?!!!!
Forgive him, Father, err I mean Lloyd, for he does not know what he is saying.
Whatever the reason that someone sent that John Smith card, be it because they think its funny (It really is not – its creepy), or they think its sending a message (It isn’t, just that you are worse than the JW’s who just take away everything and everyone you know), or that you can find someone over the internet (congrats internet stranger, you are not doing anything to help the ExJW community), the point is that you have not helped anyone by doing this.
You have made someone who has done a lot of good for many many people who have broken away from that terrible cult regret his chosen course simple out of a desire to not see harm or stress put upon his family. Its enough having to deal with the ongoing stress from the WTBTS and their universal shunning, to then have to deal with the infighting because someone doesn’t like your opinions.
Attacking someone for having a differing view was part of our old life. Shed that close minded cult personality trait and simply agree to disagree, or simply go where people share your views.
Cedars, I really enjoy your work, but you do whatever is going to make you and your family happy. Thank you for all that you have done, and while I hope you continue at it, I would understand if you do not.
Also, to liken blocking some of the many many horrible keyboard warriors on any sort of social media to shunning really shows how ridiculous of a position you are holding.
We are no longer members of the congregation that have to approach someone we don’t like in the spirit of Matthew 18. Screw that, if someone isn’t having an intellectual argument and is being a jerk its their own fault for getting blocked. He isn’t stopping them from continuing to spew their bile, he simply isn’t letting it land at his feet, and more power to Cedars. Grow up people. We are no longer JW’s, so stop thinking and acting like them.
Love your website! You have given me strength.
Can’t believe ex-jw’s are attacking you for voicing your opinion. We are all in it together!! I agree that aggressiveness towards Jehovahs Witnesses pushes them further away.
May you and your family have peace and happiness.
Lloyd. I have seen and heard some of your detractors,
they are just malevolent pygmies. They lack communication
skills, ( except for spewing out bile ).
You are head and shoulders above them. No wonder they
want to bring you down and discourage people from visiting
the best site on the net, for exposing WT and other forms of
manure. They just cannot compete.
A lot of hard work and “Talent” goes into JWsurvey. So even
if you did make a little from it you’d be entitled to it. No need
to explain to anyone, we’ve all got to live !
I hope you can continue this valuable work. But as you say
you have two other important people to consider. So whichever
way you decided to go, your choice would be respected.
Best wishes to Yourself and Family.
,
Hang in there Cedars; don’t let the bastards get you down.
I come here every day to see what everyone is saying, to feel that there are other people out there who are going through the same things is very important to be able to keep one’s sanity. We are all going through the same process even though everyone’s situation is different. Some fortunately have been able to move on and lead happy lives without giving another thought to what they left behind. I have a friend who was a witness whose family were against her becoming one and so they were very happy when she left, she found it very easy to leave. I on the other hand am married to one, my mother is one and two of my sister’s are witnesses and their families, so nephews, neices, brother-in-laws, sister-in-laws etc. I am constantly belittled by my husband because I have left the ‘truth’ I do not win any arguments with him over it because he would never look at any ‘apostate’ sites which back me up on anything I am saying, so most of the time I keep quiet and don’t say anything. I feel I am outnumbered on every side and feel in a state of turmoil most of the time. Sometimes I felt I was going mad and had no one to turn to. Finding your site has helped me a great deal, I don’t feel so alone now even though I mostly just read other people’s comments. So thank you for helping so many of us to get through a very traumatic time. Love to you, your wife and your little girl.
{{Hugs!!!}}
I feel I have quite a lot in common with you and your outlook about spirituality. I think it’s much more noble to admit that we don’t know everything there is to know about life than to claim we have it all figured out (as JWs and most Christian religions do). The beauty is that we can all have different ideas about what role science has in spirituality and/or what is the correct way of worship (if we choose to worship at all) but we don’t have to try to “win” anyone over to our side like we had to as a JW. The important thing is that we’re OUT of the org. Every one of the thousands of organized religions in the world have a compelling and convincing way of explaining that they are the right and ONLY way of proper worship. We can’t possibly, in our lifetime, thoroughly examine them all. Therefore, we all need to respect each others’ decisions and leave it at that…not insisting that “my way is the only way” and sling mud. Just my thoughts. Keep up the good work, John. You’re doing a great service!!!
I am genuinely sorry that you and your beautiful family have had to endure such hateful behaviour. Please know that you and the work you do has been so appreciated, I for one found enormous comfort and help in the early days a year ago, when I finally woke up, from your website and your videos and have a great deal of respect and gratitude for you.
I can only imagine the affect such vileness has had on you all…it beggars belief that exJW’s can behave so dreadfully. It is so sad that those at the forefront often end up in the firing line of those wishing to gain attention for themselves.
If a break is needed..take it! If only to recoup as a family and remind yourself that life exists very normally and happily outside of all things exJW and you all have a right to that feeling of freedom and peace just like the rest of us.
Much love and thanks to you and your little family Lloyd xx
Lloyd you have been my go to since my awakening, I get so excited every time you post a video. You have helped me tremendously and I appreciate all your hard work. Sending hugs to you and fam.
Hi Cedars. It is completely unacceptable for people to respond in such hateful ways given the extraordinary efforts you have made to be balanced and fair in all your posts. And worse if they claim to be Christians. We must respect people irrespective of their views and actions and you have always done that. These “trolls” are only exposing themselves for what and who they really are and I would urge you to try to disregard them as best you can. As my Aussie colleague says they are “bogans” Cynical, ignorant and the kind of people who probably should be shunned because they cause harm and have crossed the line of normal civilized words and actions. Take courage.