Jehovah’s Witnesses are generally respected as a friendly, polite, law abiding people. It is hard for an outsider to envision a Jehovah’s Witness being rude, insulting or cruel.
But despite Witnesses having mostly admirable qualities as individuals, the leadership of the religion is coming under increasing scrutiny for some of its more disturbing practices – especially that of shunning former members.
When you challenge a Jehovah’s Witness on their religion’s treatment of disfellowshipped or disassociated former members, you will typically be met with a response that goes something like this: “We do this as an act of loving discipline out of loyalty to God’s command.”
Those on the receiving end will reply to this by pointing out that ostracism to the point of not speaking to someone is anything but “loving,” and this sort of behavior has driven shunned ones to depression and even suicide.
But what about shunning being “God’s command?”
It turns out when you consult the Scriptures, the biblical justification for Watchtower’s disfellowshipping policy is flimsy at best. In fact, there are 14 verses I will point to in this article that either question or flatly contradict this controversial rule.
Before listing these verses, perhaps it would be helpful to briefly go through the Bible verses commonly invoked in support of disfellowshipping, along with the basic reasons why I believe these are misapplied.
Bible verses used to support JW shunning
1. Deuteronomy 21:20, 21; 22: 23, 24
and say to the elders of his city, ‘This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious, and he refuses to obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard.’ Then all the men of his city must stone him to death. So you must remove what is bad from your midst, and all Israel will hear and become afraid. … If a virgin is engaged to a man, and another man happens to meet her in the city and lies down with her, you should bring them both out to the gate of that city and stone them to death, the girl because she did not scream in the city and the man because he humiliated the wife of his fellow man. So you must remove what is evil from your midst.
Are we really supposed to stone sinners to death? The law of Moses was supposedly nailed to Jesus’ torture stake (Col 2:14), which is why we’re no longer executing adulterers (or rape victims who don’t scream!).
If you are a Witness, before you say “But that’s an extreme example! The organization would never use those verses in defense of shunning!”, please consult the Organized book on page 140.
2. Matthew 10:34-37
Do not think I came to bring peace to the earth; I came to bring, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man’s enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and whoever has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me.
When read in context, this passage is clearly describing Jesus’ followers being shunned by their unbelieving family members, not vice versa.
3. 1 Corinthians 5:5-7, 11-13
you must hand such a man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord. Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven ferments the whole batch of dough? Clear away the old leaven so that you may be a new batch, inasmuch as you are free from ferment. For, indeed, Christ our Passover lamb has been sacrificed. … But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.”
There is obviously a difference between not “keeping company” or socializing (i.e. dining) with someone and ignoring them as though they don’t exist – not even speaking to them. And “anyone called a brother” needn’t be applied even to family members. Even Watchtower makes allowances in this regard, allowing a disfellowshipped husband to remain with his wife and permitting children to continue living with their disfellowshipped parents. Also, 2 Thessalonians chapter 3 sheds more light on 1 Corinthians chapter 5, as I will explain later.
4. 1 Timothy 1:20
Hymenaeus and Alexander are among these, and I have handed them over to Satan so that they may be taught by discipline not to blaspheme.
“Handed over to Satan” does not specify shunning as practiced by Jehovah’s Witnesses.
5. 1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out so that it might be shown that not all are of our sort.
This verse merely describes those who stop believing, or “disassociate.” It does not advise that believers should shun such ones.
6. 2 John 7-11
For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those not acknowledging Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Look out for yourselves, so that you do not lose the things we have worked to produce, but that you may obtain a full reward. Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works.
This verse is talking about “antichrists” who deny Jesus. Clearly, not all who are disfellowshipped cease to be believing Christians. Even those who do cease to be religious needn’t be shunned according to this verse, because it is contradicted by another Bible verse that I will come to later.
Obviously there are other Bible verses appealed to by Watchtower when it comes to promoting the practice of shunning (verses describing the divine execution of certain Israelites, e.g. Aaron’s sons or Korah and his followers, spring to mind) but for the sake of argument I have tried to focus on the most compelling and/or prominently-used scriptures.
Bible verses that contradict JW shunning
Having breezed through the Bible verses most regularly appealed to by Watchtower in defense of its shunning policy we can now get stuck in to the verses that contradict it. And it turns out there are more than you might think.
For the purpose of brevity I will only partially quote some of the longer verses quoted, but I would recommend looking up and reading the cited passages in their entirety, particularly if you are skeptical about the way I am applying them.
1. Matthew 5:43-48
“You heard that it was said: ‘You must love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and to pray for those who persecute you, so that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, since he makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous. For if you love those loving you, what reward do you have? Are not also the tax collectors doing the same thing? And if you greet your brothers only, what extraordinary thing are you doing? Are not also the people of the nations doing the same thing? You must accordingly be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.”
You cannot love your enemy in any meaningful sense if you refuse to talk to him or her. This verse also gives context to Matthew chapter 18, which I will mention later, since there Jesus said that avowed sinners should be treated as being “of the nations” (in other words, no longer “brothers”) and here he is saying that his followers should take no pride in only greeting their brothers.
2. Matthew 9:10-13
Later as he was dining in the house, look! many tax collectors and sinners came and began dining with Jesus and his disciples. But on seeing this, the Pharisees said to his disciples: “Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?” Hearing them, he said: “Healthy people do not need a physician, but those who are ill do. Go, then, and learn what this means: ‘I want mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came to call, not righteous people, but sinners.”
Jesus here advocated the principle that, just because someone is a sinner, this does not mean they should be shunned. In fact shunning makes it impossible to help someone correct their course. Mercy, according to Jesus, was the dominant consideration.
It’s also interesting to note that Jesus’ eating with sinners was a continuing source of irritation for the Jewish religious leaders, specifically in the synoptic gospels. If Jesus wanted to leave his followers with the impression that sinners were to be shunned and avoided, he did an appalling job. (Compare Matthew 11:19, Mark 2:16, Luke 5:30; 7:34; 15:1, 2)
3. Matthew 18:15-17
“Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go and reveal his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, so that on the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he does not listen to them, speak to the congregation. If he does not listen even to the congregation, let him be to you just as a man of the nations and as a tax collector.“
No allowance here for kangaroo court-style judicial committees made up of Jehovah’s Witness elders. Rather, believers were to sort out grievances between themselves. Also, since Jesus ate with tax collectors (as we have already established), clearly JW-style total avoidance wasn’t on the menu even in the worst case scenario.
4. Luke 6:27
“But I say to you who are listening: Continue to love your enemies, to do good to those hating you“
Again, it’s impossible to love someone or do good to them if you are refusing to acknowledge their existence. And we are talking here about “enemies” who “hate” believers. Most disfellowshipped Jehovah’s Witnesses I know of have nothing but love for their believing family but are shunned all the same.
5. Luke 6:35-37
“On the contrary, continue to love your enemies and to do good and to lend without hoping for anything back; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind toward the unthankful and wicked. Continue being merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Moreover, stop judging, and you will by no means be judged; and stop condemning, and you will by no means be condemned. Keep on forgiving, and you will be forgiven“
Again, you cannot show kindness toward “the unthankful and wicked” by shunning them. Jesus warned his followers to be forgiving rather than judgmental, reminding them that mercy should be the preeminent factor. Can separating someone from their loved ones be considered merciful?
6. Luke 10:25-37
But wanting to prove himself righteous, the man said to Jesus: “Who really is my neighbor?” In reply Jesus said: “A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho and fell victim to robbers, who stripped him, beat him, and went off, leaving him half-dead. Now by coincidence a priest was going down on that road, but when he saw him, he passed by on the opposite side. Likewise, a Levite, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the opposite side. But a certain Samaritan traveling the road came upon him, and at seeing him, he was moved with pity. So he approached him and bandaged his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them. Then he mounted him on his own animal and brought him to an inn and took care of him. The next day he took out two denarii, gave them to the innkeeper, and said: ‘Take care of him, and whatever you spend besides this, I will repay you when I return.’ Who of these three seems to you to have made himself neighbor to the man who fell victim to the robbers?” He said: “The one who acted mercifully toward him.” Jesus then said to him: “Go and do the same yourself.”
In Jesus’ famous parable, which I consider to be the most beautiful passage in the Bible, the true neighbor turned out to be the heretic (the Samaritan) who had what Jews considered to be apostate religious beliefs, and it was precisely such a neighbor to whom his followers were reminded to show love.
7. Luke chapter 15
Now all the tax collectors and the sinners kept gathering around him to hear him. And both the Pharisees and the scribes kept muttering: “This man welcomes sinners and eats with them.” Then he told them this illustration, saying: “What man among you with 100 sheep, on losing one of them, will not leave the 99 behind in the wilderness and go after the lost one until he finds it? And when he has found it, he puts it on his shoulders and rejoices. … In the same way, I tell you, joy arises among the angels of God over one sinner who repents.” Then he said: “A man had two sons. And the younger one said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of the property that should come to me.’ So he divided his belongings between them. A few days later, the younger son gathered all his things together and traveled to a distant country and there squandered his property by living a debauched life. When he had spent everything, a severe famine occurred throughout that country, and he fell into need. He even went and attached himself to one of the citizens of that country, who sent him into his fields to herd swine. And he longed to be filled with the carob pods that the swine were eating, but no one would give him anything. “When he came to his senses, he said, ‘How many of my father’s hired men have more than enough bread, while I am dying here from hunger! I will get up and travel to my father and say to him: “Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy of being called your son. Make me as one of your hired men.”’ So he got up and went to his father. While he was still a long way off, his father caught sight of him and was moved with pity, and he ran and embraced him and tenderly kissed him. Then the son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy of being called your son.’ But the father said to his slaves, ‘Quick! bring out a robe, the best one, and clothe him with it, and put a ring on his hand and sandals on his feet. Also bring the fattened calf, slaughter* it, and let us eat and celebrate, for this son of mine was dead but has come to life again; he was lost and has been found.’ And they started to enjoy themselves. … ‘But we just had to celebrate and rejoice, for your brother was dead but has come to life; he was lost and has been found.’”
This chapter of the Bible, when read in context and fully contemplated, is dynamite to Watchtower’s shunning policy, which is probably why it rarely features in material on how disfellowshipped ones are to be treated.
Notice that the entire reason for Jesus launching into the parable of the prodigal son was that he had again been chastised for being too friendly with sinners. He responded by reminding his accusers that it was impossible to help someone or be a good example by refusing to interact with them.
In the parable itself, Jesus describes an errant son who only returns after exhausting his funds, making it impossible to continue his debauched lifestyle. Such a person would be disfellowshipped by Jehovah’s Witness elders for only exhibiting “worldly sadness.”
Worldly sadness, according to Watchtower, “mourns the unpleasant consequences wrongdoing brings. But it does not mourn over the unrighteousness itself, or the reproach it brings on God.” (w72 7/15 p. 438) Furthermore, it is telling that the father runs to embrace his son “while he was still a long way off” – in other words, before any repentance could be determined.
8. 2 Corinthians 2:1-7
For I have made up my mind not to come to you again in sadness. For if I make you sad, who will be there to cheer me up except the one I saddened? I wrote what I did, so that when I come I may not be saddened by those over whom I ought to rejoice, because I have confidence that what brings me joy brings all of you the same joy. For out of much tribulation and anguish of heart I wrote you with many tears, not to sadden you, but to let you know the depth of love I have for you. Now if anyone has caused sadness, he has saddened, not me, but all of you to an extent—not to be too harsh in what I say. This rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man; now you should instead kindly forgive and comfort him, so that he may not be overwhelmed by excessive sadness.
Interestingly, in his follow-up letter to 1 Corinthians (in which the most direct counsel on the treatment of wrongdoers is given) Paul sounds a vague note of regret at what he had written, or at least how it had been interpreted. (“For if I make you sad, who will be there to cheer me up except the one I saddened?”) He reminds the congregation of the need for forgiveness lest the wrongdoer “be overwhelmed by excessive sadness,” and even suggests that a “rebuke given by the majority is sufficient for such a man.” This indicates it is not necessary for each and every individual in a congregation to “rebuke” a wrongdoer. It was possible, in Paul’s mind, to apply his words too harshly.
9. Colossians 3:13, 14
Continue putting up with one another and forgiving one another freely even if anyone has a cause for complaint against another. Just as Jehovah freely forgave you, you must also do the same. But besides all these things, clothe yourselves with love, for it is a perfect bond of union.
Self explanatory! Are you really putting up with someone or freely forgiving them by treating them as though they don’t exist?
10. 1 Thessalonians 4:3-8; 9-12
For this is the will of God, that you should be holy and abstain from sexual immorality. Each one of you should know how to control his own body in holiness and honor, not with greedy, uncontrolled sexual passion like the nations have that do not know God. No one should go beyond proper limits and take advantage of his brother in this matter, because Jehovah exacts punishment for all these things, just as we told you previously and also strongly warned you. For God has called us, not for uncleanness, but for holiness. So, then, the man who disregards this is disregarding, not man, but God, who gives you his holy spirit. … However, concerning brotherly love, you do not need us to write to you, for you yourselves are taught by God to love one another. In fact, you are doing so toward all the brothers in all of Macedonia. But we urge you, brothers, to go on doing so in fuller measure. Make it your aim to live quietly and to mind your own business and to work with your hands, just as we instructed you, so that you may walk decently in the eyes of people outside and not need anything.
Paul believed that God would punish wrongdoers, and it was God, not man, to whom they were accountable. This is a recurring theme in Paul’s writings, namely judgment in the hereafter rather than the here and now.
Believing Christians were not to take punishment into their own hands. They were to “love one another” and “mind their own business.”
Can Jehovah’s Witness elders who investigate and interrogate congregation members over accused wrongdoing (to the extent of delving into sexual matters in gratuitous detail) be considered to be minding their own business? Can it be considered evidence of “brotherly love” to behave in such a manner?
11. 1 Thessalonians 5:14, 15
On the other hand, we urge you, brothers, to warn the disorderly, speak consolingly to those who are depressed, support the weak, be patient toward all. See that no one repays injury for injury to anyone, but always pursue what is good toward one another and to all others.
Again, self explanatory. You cannot “support the weak” by ostracizing them and weaponizing family relationships against them. Patience is required, as is the avoidance of vindictive, judgmental behavior, i.e. repaying “injury for injury” through excessive discipline.
12. 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15
Now we are giving you instructions, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, to withdraw from every brother who is walking disorderly and not according to the tradition that you received from us. For you yourselves know how you should imitate us, because we did not behave in a disorderly way among you, nor did we eat anyone’s food free. … For we hear that some are walking disorderly among you, not working at all, but meddling with what does not concern them. To such people we give the order and exhortation in the Lord Jesus Christ that they should work quietly and eat food they themselves earn. For your part, brothers, do not give up in doing good. But if anyone is not obedient to our word through this letter, keep this one marked and stop associating with him, so that he may become ashamed. And yet do not consider him an enemy, but continue admonishing him as a brother.
If you read 2 Thessalonians chapter 3 and compare it with 1 Corinthians chapter 5 you find both passages are discussing the same problem of how to deal with wrongdoers.
Rather than being separate instructions – one for “disfellowshipping” (1 Corinthians) one for “marking” (2 Thessalonians) – Paul makes clear that the recommendation to merely “stop associating” (socializing) with “disorderly” ones applies to all the behavior outlined in “this letter” of 2 Thessalonians (see verse 14) which in the previous chapter includes a rebuke of the “man of lawlessness” who “did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.”
Remember 2 John 10 (cited earlier) where readers were told to ostracize the “antichrists” among them by not receiving them into their homes or saying a greeting to them? Well, here we have different instructions. Paul’s suggested punishment for such ones was far less extreme. As far as he was concerned, the “man of lawlessness” who “stands in opposition and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship” could be dealt with more leniently, because it was for Jesus to “do away” with such ones “by the manifestation of his presence” if they failed to correct their course. (2 Thess. 2:3-8)
Again, Paul apparently believed that morbid fear of the impending destruction of wrongdoers was sufficient motivation to bring them to their senses, hence his repeated counsel for Christians to not take matters into their own hands.
Even when describing believers distancing themselves from “disorderly” ones among them, this was only to be done to a limited degree, i.e. by refraining from “keeping company,” eating with, or “associating” with such a person – and, even then, they were to “continue admonishing him as a brother.”
13. 1 Timothy 5:8
Certainly if anyone does not provide for those who are his own, and especially for those who are members of his household, he has disowned the faith and is worse than a person without faith
If you are not providing materially or emotionally for a family member, perhaps because you have been persuaded to shun him or her by religious zealots, you are worse than a person without faith.
14. Hebrews 10:26-31
For if we practice sin willfully after having received the accurate knowledge of the truth, there is no longer any sacrifice for sins left, but there is a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a burning indignation that is going to consume those in opposition. Anyone who has disregarded the Law of Moses dies without compassion on the testimony of two or three. How much greater punishment do you think a person will deserve who has trampled on the Son of God and who has regarded as of ordinary value the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and who has outraged the spirit of undeserved kindness with contempt? For we know the One who said: “Vengeance is mine; I will repay.” And again: “Jehovah will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Interestingly, this verse was cited in a 1947 Awake! article titled “Are You Also Excommunicated?” (g47 1/8 pp. 27, 28) – an article that predated Watchtower’s practice of disfellowshipping, which wasn’t introduced until 1952. (Scans are available here and here.)
The article argued strongly that excommunication, which Watchtower has equated to disfellowshipping (see “Expelling” in Insight Vol. 1), is an instrument of “ecclesiastical power and secular tyranny,” “not without pagan influence,” that is “altogether foreign to biblical teachings.”
The verse from Hebrews chosen by Watchtower to argue this point again highlights Paul’s belief that punishment was exclusively God’s remit, not that of men.
Cruel, unbiblical, and detrimental to Watchtower’s aims
So next time a Jehovah’s Witness tells you that, by shunning their disfellowshipped family member, they are following God’s command, politely remind them that the New Testament is strewn with cautions to show love and mercy, and to refrain from being judgmental or taking punishment into one’s own hands.
Even Paul, Watchtower’s poster boy when arguing in favor of shunning, believed that sinners were answerable to God alone, and seemed to express regret to the Corinthians that the advice he gave them in his first letter could have resulted in “excessive sadness” when ruthlessly implemented.
But the biggest irony of Watchtower’s shunning policy is that, in addition to being cruel and unbiblical, it is actually detrimental to the organization’s aims. If the Governing Body were to reverse their policy of shunning, their organization would instantly shed a large portion of its cult reputation making it easier to attract new converts.
Yes, there would inevitably be an exodus if Witnesses were allowed to vote with their feet or were otherwise no longer bound to a captive organization. But whoever remains (I believe we would still be talking in the order of millions) could be truly considered devout believers whose loyalty to the organization would be beyond question.
Sadly, the penny is unlikely to drop any time soon. The Governing Body have wedded themselves to the shunning policy they inherited from their 1980s forebears in a string of Watchtower articles and propaganda videos reinforcing the rule to shun disfellowshipped family members (there were two video dramatizations in 2016 alone).
The stubbornness of these men knows no bounds. Their delusion is not only ruining lives for former members, it is also self-destructive both for the organization and its members who are forced to bypass their humanity in order to comply with “God’s commands.”
It is for this reason that JWsurvey remains committed to highlighting the abusive policies inflicted on Jehovah’s Witnesses, who do not deserve to be exploited, threatened or lied to. Even though the “faithful slave” seem unmoved by the suffering they are causing, we who feel the brunt of their cruelty are appealing to the outside world loudly and persistently, and the media and various law-makers and influencers are starting to take an interest. Slowly but surely, our voices are being heard.
Author of The Reluctant Apostate and How To Escape from Jehovah’s Witnesses.
Related video:
Further reading:
* All scripture quotations are from the New World Translation, 2013 revision (obviously!)
** It should be noted that, despite quoting from the Bible and arguing along theological lines, the author of this article is an atheist. I am no longer persuaded that the Bible is a sound moral authority for reasons I have explained on my YouTube channel. However, even though there was nothing stopping the Bible writers from advocating shunning as currently practiced by Jehovah’s Witnesses, it turns out this is not the case when examining their writings (or it can be said their advice on the treatment of wrongdoers is inconsistent at best).
So the disciples didn’t understand some of Jesus sayings
at the time they were given, maybe each had their own
ideas as to what he meant, but there’s no record of any
of them publishing their own thoughts as indisputable
truth. Such cannot be said of those who claim to be
his anointed modern day disciples.
Good point Ted. I hadn’t thought of that.
Yeah, they were supposed to serve the food, not go in the kitchen and change the recipes, haha.
Hi Ted, remember Jesus said he was sending a helper which he did at Pentecost so they were able to understand things. Now they realized this was to be a heavenly kingdom for one thing. And while they didn’t know the day or hour, things would happen, they did know the generation. Another interesting thing is Prov 4:18…by reading the whole chapter it would seem it has to do with the bright path of righteousness vs the path of the wicked and nothing o do with “new light” understandings. Sometimes things are more simple than we realize.
I hope in your situation you are able to receive quality care and comfort as you deal with your health issues. All the best Ted.
Peace
Eyes opened, by the way Jesus promised a lot of things to be accomplished by the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit. “He shall teach you all things”, for one. If you read what it really had to do the Holy Spirit, it seems to me that is just the biggest failed prophecy of the Bible
Hi tranquillo,
Thank you for offering a reply. I’m not exactly sure what part of the prophecy you feel has failed, but that could be because I believe Revelation was written pre-70 and that Armageddon was the destruction of Jerusalem in which case much was fulfilled. I do believe that parts of Revelation, the resurrection and no more death and so on, is still to be fulfilled. I definitely don’t have all the answers but so far that’s what makes the most sense to me. I do try to figure things out because I believe we have a creator and while I take some things in the Bible with a grain of salt, I believe there are some beneficial truths to be found. I do not find those truths with the org. Anyway I enjoy the shared ideas and the research.
Regards
Lethal Weapon, my wife & i watched Serena loose a match at one of the other tournaments, we love watching her loose, then when she beat Venus at the US open she thanked Jehovah as usual, when she was having her tirade in the Final i made the point to my Wife, that i would love to be in the crowd and hold up a sign stating “Where’s Jehovah Now Serena”, in 2009 she used the F word when abusing the Line Person, she should be in the Back Room getting counsel, don’t you think, the Tiger analogy was ok, i would have used a Wild Gorilla myself. hehe
Good point. I was just thinking that myself after I posted that comment. It’s amazing how bad behaviour can turn a beautiful tiger into a disgusting gorilla. People may disagree with me, but it seems we are presently living in a culture of bad behaviour, bullying, and cheating. Speaking of Venus, I was reading that, allegedly, some of the matches between her and her sister were fixed by their dad or something. And of course why the hell would God care who wins a f—-ing tennis game? JWs criticize athletes for praying before a game, and nations for praying to God for victory in war. But that hypocrisy is pretty much par for the course now. Old news. As I said, this two-faced stuff is all around us. The President of the United States is a big Cheat who by his own admission has evaded paying income tax for the last 20 years. He even bragged about it. Back in ‘16, during the campaign, he promised to disclose his tax returns after his alleged “audit” was over. Still no returns. Of course, the “audit” was pure fiction. Lies, lies, lies. The 2016 Election was fixed, a Cheat. Everyone knows that by now. SSSelected, not elected. What is left but to feel sorry for such people? You are what you do. Disgusting behaviour breeds disgusting people. Such ones truly fit the definition of Loser.
I see the Catholic sex abuse scandal is ‘growing faster than they can contain it’ and one of the reasons put forward by Francis for all this sex abuse is the Devil….”He tries to uncover the sins, so they are visible in order to scandalize the people.” So what’s he saying here?…..abuse is the Devils fault and not the Vatican’s? Still failing to face the truth and these people are just like WT – self serving and arrogant in their delusion. Reality eludes them all.
@outie, let the Catholics come up with the stupid excuses, and let those stupid excuses be exposed. So when the Witnesses come up with the same type of excuses they can be humiliated further.
No, apparently the Devil’s crime is in “uncovering” the sins! Naughty Devil, those sins/crimes are supposed to remain secret!!!!!!!!!!!
I have just heard my ex has been reinstated. She had jumped into bed with a Pakistani and had gotten pregnant then d’fed. She gave me a pathetic apology via sms out of the blue saying she was sorry for being stupid and wrecking the marriage. She has never admitted to me that she committed adultery and has never apologized to my son for abandoning him and not contacting him for the past three years. I did send an email to her elders shortly after I received her pathetic apology. I also made it clear to them that she is a covert narcissist. Still she was able to get reinstated. How is that possible?
Doesn’t surprise me one bit, Ricardo.
This lamebrain organization has even reinstated convicted murderers in prison serving life sentences without the hope of release. Go figure. Even convicted pedophiles are welcomed back into the congregation with open arms without having to undergo psychiatric visitation to get them straightened out. Should we expect any different actions by these “spiritual shepherds” when it comes to those who practiced adultery or fornication? As far as Narcissism is concerned, well what can be said except she should fit right in with the rest of those “sheeple”!
Disfellowshipped people, gross sinners (not protestors or whistle blowers) should be kept out of the Christian congregation, period. If their heart is truely repentant, then God will forgive them whether they are reinstated or not. Jesus reads hearts, no one else. They can sit in the back of the Hall and dummy up but forgive them without showing or doing something that befits repentance, just an “I’m sorry, really I am”, not a snowballs chance in Hell! Is this unkind, perhaps Pharisaic on my part? Perhaps so however, I don’t associate with gross sinners in my daily life and I don’t see why I have to give them my time in a house or worship either. I may speak to them, but that’s about it.
I told my ex-wife to get her absolution from God, that I was in no possible position to receive it or forgive her adultery. She has never again tried to apologized after my rebuff and has now been married two more times since our divorce. She’s getting her just deserts and I enjoy watching her twisting in the wind making one stupid life altering mistake after another.
I don’t believe that contacting her elders was the wisest thing to do as you are disfellowshipped, right? Besides, they’re on their own mission from the Society as they follow their “Come back to Jehovah” campaign (so that we can abuse and exploit you some more)!
Take care my friend,
Big B
Ricardo, any kind of sin can be easily forgiven by WT$$$ unless the worst of all of them: speaking against the holy organization. There is no absolution for that and you will forever be regarded as dangerous. It is simply clear that if you know too much about WT$$ you won’t ever contribute in cash, so why in hell have you back?
Believer: God wants you to do this, that, and the other.
Infidel: Oh, so you have met God?
Believer: No.
Infidel: Then how dare you presume to speak for Him?
Believer: Well, dear, I have read his book, the Bible/Koran/Torah.
Infidel: Oh, well I have read “Gone With the Wind.” I suppose that entitles me to speak for Margaret Mitchell.
Believer: Does not compute…does not compute…does not compute……
speaking for God is a billion dollar industry, either by fleecing people, keeping them in subjection, or both.
Ricardo,
Hey there, we just attended the Sunday at the Assembly hall, i believe your old circuit was their, we were out of our own group, The showman Gary was on show, he decided that we would not finish at 3.50, because he wanted to bring the Aslan people in so they could sing the final song again in front of us, so we were allowed to finish at 4.30, yeah some people have to drive a few hours you know, & yes i was their to keep peace in my House, anyway, they maxed out the place, no spare seats or car parks left, trouble brewing, where is the money to build another one in North Brisbane, remember doing away with food service, to save money, doing away with boondal, to save money, selling KH, to make money, on & on it goes.
@Whip It, there has been talk of a new assembly hall north of Brisbane for some time. But surely with all the cost cutting it won’t be done. Surely.
Gary sent a letter to the cong which d’fed me saying that I have been counseled repeatedly for my negative attitude while in Australia. He made it sound like the elders had taken me to the back room many times and given me a talking to. But they hadn’t done that even once. I can’t even think in recent times where elders have given me any counsel for my attitude. But at Gary’s last CO visit I took him to task for the child abuse scandals. He didn’t like that. I think I really p*ssed him off. He knew I had to be kicked out because I knew too much.
What’s the go with the Asian brothers singing the last song? (Perhaps the Samoans)? Is Gary complaining about the Australians singing? After his last CO visit we had a local needs where the elder had the cong practice our singing and then he asked all the elders to the stage to sing together and give the cong a good example.
It is this superficial nonsense which disappoints me. Of all the problems the cong has, and the pathetic effort put in by the elders to do shepherding and show they care, what is off greatest concern? Singing. Yeh, right. That’s going to make things better, isn’t it? Who says: I think I’ll go to the kingdom hall to hear some singing? This sort of superficial nonsense just adds to the nails in the coffin of the org. But nobody sees it. Nobody says anything criticising it. Because that would be negative. And we know what happens to negative people. They get kicked out .
Shepherds actually doing shepherding work, like visiting the elderly and infirm? Imagine that! Pigs will fly first!
Elders are as worthless as breasts on a boar hog or tits on a Tom cat! That goes double for the Circuit Overseers too.
Two different examples with the same result comes to my mind. Namely, my Mom, wife of a presiding congregational elder, wasn’t visited by her spiritual shepherds the entire time she was at home suffering from the onset of dymentia. She had even given one of them a vehicle as a gift but this elder could not break away from his nonsensical door to door ministry to speak words of comfort to my Mom, who was a publisher for over 60 years!
Do you think for one damn minute that I allowed my mother’s funeral to be hijacked as another chance to showcase Jehovah’s Witnesses stupid beliefs? Not a chance; my brother and I held our own prayer at the cemetery privately. No songs, no talks, no nothing, just our prayers, memories and thoughts.
Same thing with my Uncle, a presiding Overseer in his congregation, a Witness for over 60 years. His entire time in the nursing home in assisted care was spent by himself without visitation from his so called “friends” or his lame “spiritual shepherds”. Why the hell not? He was, like my Mom a Christian in good standing in the Congregation. Why didn’t he merit a visit from his spiritual shepherds?
The reason is plain to see and really quite human. Both my Mom and my Uncle were proof positive of the real truth. Namely the reality of the eventual death of everyone including those deluded shepherds and they hadn’t the courage to face their delusional beliefs head on. Out of sight, out of mind. They don’t want to be reminded of the truth or reality of their own eventual demise. It’s just painful and depressing to think about.
Yeah, Armageddon will soon be here! I won’t taste death at all, yeah that’s it, that’s the ticket! Dream on you miserable purveyors of pernicious prophecy and propaganda. Reality is coming and sooner or later you will have to meet it head on!
Hi Big B, your post reminded me of our family friend who died disillusioned, depressed and unvisited in an old folks home. Depressed? Why? Shouldn’t she be happy knowing that sometime after death all her atoms were going to miraculously re-assemble themselves into a perfect body? I suppose after decades of being told she wasn’t going to die, here she was faced with the reality of it all and realizing she’d been duped just like 8 million others. Suddenly, resurrection is less believable when staring down both barrels of death after decades of it being a long way off and easier to believe. Like car accidents- they only happen to other people.
Saw a cart downtown today. Tucked in a corner just doing their time knowing they’re trying to sell crap that no one wants or needs. Standing brave for God, but in a corner hoping to be missed. Nicely dressed though.
Something interesting happened to me – I’m an Atheist but we just lost a couple of dear friends in a tragic accident. I miss them dearly and found myself thinking spiritual thoughts. Not of God but some other existence and I realized that this is how religion gets in – no matter how smart or dumb a person is, we;re all susceptible to our fears and emotions and that’s what gets used against us to great success.
To Big B and outandabout, interesting comments both of you. You paint a very true picture of the reality faced by older ones. After years and years of hearing I may not have to die, I now realize I will have to come to terms with many eventualities I didn’t expect to face. You are so right about counting those hours. So much more important to ride around in a car in rural territory all day, getting out 2 or 3 times with no one home, taking an hour and a half donut break, so much more important than looking after widows, orphans and others in need, NOT! I know a man who was a pioneer, he began to feel so guilty about counting hours instead of helping a couple ailing friends in need. He is awake now, no more delusions. And he is a genuinely good man who does things for others that is beneficial and helpful. Ahhh waking up is so nice!
Peace
Ricardo, it was the Oslan people, the death ones that came in, i said to my wife & few others that Gary looks like one of the Muppets, he is a complete Fraud, when i was an elder i missed the Elders school due to work, i said i can go to another one, Gary wanted me removed, it didnt happen at that time, but the daggers were out, as i said they are in trouble in Brisbane, so many people are moving in & 2 many have to share it, where we live, we used to go to a local civic centre thats 30 minutes away, well they changed the border & now 2 plus hour drive to Brisbane each way, watching & waiting for the implode!!!!!
Just saw a great one on a T- shirt:
SCIENCE…LIKE MAGIC…BUT REAL
Never trust an atom. They make up everything.
A spaceship has landed on Earth.
https://goo.gl/images/a2DbrL
Indeed, ya gotta hand it to science!
https://goo.gl/images/mPZFZc
Sorry. Wasn’t supposed to be a whole article. Just an image. Maybe this will work better.
https://goo.gl/images/QgkhnT
eyes opened.
Like the illustration and thanks for kind thoughts.
“Morality is doing what’s right regardless of what we
are told.
Religious dogma is doing what we are told regardless
of what’s right.”
I came across the above quote one time on YouTube,
It seems appropriate to the inhuman practice of shunning
and many other senseless and destructive demands
of religion.
Indeed, it is better to be Godly and unreligious than to be religious and unGodly.
Come to think of it, organized religion gives so many people such a sense of superiority and entitlement (not enlightenment) that they really do end up doing some very unGodly things!
That reminds me of another saying I like; “I’d rather be around people who are good that need God then people who need God to be good”.
YOU SAID IT SPOT ON. I LOVE THIS AND WILL SAVE THE STATEMENT. CHECK OUT MIKE AND KIM ON YOU TUBE. THIS IS WHAT THEY WOULD AGREE WITH.
Great video Lloyd
Enjoyed your disassembly of JW Brainwashing 45, Lloyd.
Hey Watchturdies, thought I went to sleep, huh? I saw what you did. In my tirade on all the DON’Ts in society, as well as in watchtower, I SARCASTICALLY stated “DON’T LEARN TO PROTECT YOURSELF”. Then, PRESTO, looks like the Holy Ghost directed you to include a story about a lonely little girl who was making her way up the competitive circuit in Tae-Kwon-Do. That is, until the Jehovies put her on the “right” path to fulfillment. LMFAO And, oh, those bruises and battered knuckles! Wa waa waaaaaaaaa. I’ve been there, and trust me, getting knocked around a bit in the Dojo is NOT THAT BAD. In fact, it can be rather stimulating. Even in competition, plenty of padding is worn, and no one is out to kill or maim you, like Gladiators. LMFAO again. Remember, those folks have to go to work the next morning. As always, WATCHTOWER IS FULL OF SCATA. Gotcha again!!! Nice try though. That’s it, Watchtrolls, keep those ladies down! Keep them vulnerable, weak, defenseless. That’s your style, isn’t it? You’re not real men, so I guess ya gotta do whatcha gotta do. Losers. :(
Why not put it to the ladies themselves? Ladies, would you rather take a couple of friendly love taps in the Dojo, or get the real thing somewhere else? Think about it.
And let me just add one more thing. To be a self-reliant man or woman, please do not suffer from the misconception that you have to dedicate yourself to years of martial arts training, acquiring level after level of Black Belt, etc, transforming yourself into some kind of Chuck Norris or Bruce Lee. Chances are, if you are ever threatened in the street, it will probably be by some incompetent buffoon (hopefully). Don’t worry about the color of the belt. Six months of once- or twice-a-week training will be enough to tune your body and turn you into a hardened killer (or close enough ;) ).
And remember … ATTITUDE ATTITUDE ATTITUDE
Hi Resister, I for sure was missing you! things are pretty quiet here, no news, no articles for one month now…
I appreciate it, tranquie. Yes, I understand it’s been a little dry lately, but even more reason for folks to keep the comments coming! We can’t expect the JWsurvey crew to do all the work. Those folks have lives too. We’re in this together.
GUNG HO = TEAMWORK
by the way once out of the WT cage I started again practicising Kung Fu, traditional Mantis style. There is far more spirituality in martial arts than in fake religions. When I woke up I was obviously quite alone, so I went back to Kung Fu and was sure that I would find some fine friends and so it was.
Good for you.
I totally overlooked the social aspect in my comments. You’re quite right, I remember the Dojo always being filled with good people – students and instructors! It really is not a bad way to make new friends.
And I still remember watchtower articles trying to scare jw’s away from the Martial Arts by claiming it involved “spiritism”, Eastern meditation rituals and the like. Well, I never experienced such a thing. LMAO Just more Bovine Scatology from the self-deluded watchtower writing staff. Anyway, if anyone is concerned about being possessed by Beelzebub, but still wants to learn self-protection skills, they can check out Israeli Krav Maga or Russian street-fighting or the like.
PS a bit of trivia – just as Gung Ho means “Work Together” or “Teamwork”, Gung Fu or Kung Fu simply means “Work Hard” or “Hard Work”. Certainly nothing mysterious about that!
In reference to JW Brainwashing 45, speaking for myself, I used to play some of the most violent video games (anyone remember “DOOM” – with the chainsaw? lol), and I’m a very peaceful person.
In fact, there’s another theory that violent games / movies are cathartic and actually lead to less violence. Remember, the vast majority of murders, wars, and genocides occurred long before video games were invented!
OK, that was a bit of a logic faux pas. Of course the vast majority of violence occurred before video games were invented. Video games have only been around for 40 years or so (at least if you count “Pong” lol). Still, there doesn’t seem to have been a catastrophic increase in global violence since the advent of video games.
So go ahead and decapitate those Demon-Zombie-Alien-Vampire-Nazis!
Was watching a film about Richard Kuklinski , known as
“The ice Man, a contract killer for the mob killed over
a 100 men but categorically refused to harm women
or children. Got me thinking about the Old Testament
God Yahweh who had no such scruples, pregnant
women ripped open, children dashed to pieces, cannibalism,
children cooked and eaten during famine, inflicted upon them
by you know who. Kuklinski an obvious homicidal
psychopath said to have “Paranoid Personality Disorder”.
What’s the verdict on Yahweh ?
Yahweh is clearly a maniac, Ted and they tried to temper that with Jesus and that only works if you need it to. Yahweh and Jesus – both sides of Mans nature. Man made God in his own image, not the other way around. Clearly, if triangles had gods, they would be triangular in shape.
By biblical accounts God has killed millions and Satan six.
And what about that poor sod who was struck down for touching the “ark of the covenant” as it was falling off the donkey cart? That poor bastard was punished just for having natural reflexes! Presumably, natural reflexes bestowed upon him by none other than Yahoo himself. WTF? Looks like Yahoo likes to set ya up, just so he can knock ya down! What are we to him – bowling pins? Like Adam and Eve. He commands them not to eat from the tree, knowing full well the fools will do it, then jumps out of the bushes and yells “AHA!!!”
Adam and Eve? Notice how the bible plagiarizes Greek thought (the Greeks proposed the idea of atoms) and creates Adam from a handful of dirt but poor old Eve cannot be made equal to Man so is made from Man thereby owing her very existence to him, thereby helping to continue misogynistic thinking. In ancient thinking, man was surely made superior to woman because man was physically stronger and back then, survival depended on the man. This was seen as the order of things thousands of years before the bible and the bible just carried that thought over.
Incidentally, the Greeks also thought the world was a sphere, not a circle as the bible states. More plagiarized thought touted as original and unique to the bible thereby cementing its authority. The bible is only an account of how we thought things worked at that time. As an example,we don’t believe animals got there spots and stripes by standing a certain way in front of bushes while mating anymore.
So I see the latest slogan in hollywood is #BelieveSurvivors. Hey Self-Righteous Hollywood Saviors of the World, does that also apply to JW child survivors of abuse? Or are you Watchtower Sympathizers like your celebrity friends Serena Williams and Prince?
JW Brainwashing 45 really gives me the giggles. I mean, they must be getting desperate for good stories. The “personal experiences” were pretty lame. A little girl gives up martial arts competition to become a jehova witness because she wasn’t feeling fulfilled. So what? Who cares? 1000 years ago, some guy got shoved around in the street because he wouldn’t salute the flag. Big deal. Who cares? Not interested. Go f—- yourself. Looking for fulfilment? Buy a puppy. Volunteer. Play video games. Read a book. Get a hobby, you know, like glass-blowing.
For those getting bored, I would like to suggest googling: Wikipedia Jehovah’s Witness child sex abuse
It gives an up to date rundown of the recent court cases Watchtower has been involved in, and cases now going through the courts. Attorney Irwin Zalkin is extremely active- check out some of the cases in the references.
Sure is good to see justice being done.
Is this working?
So I guess it was the Season Premier of “Lethal Weapon” that aired last night (with the new guy as Riggs or whatever because the other actor apparently was a bit of a lunatic), and I have absolutely nothing to say about it because I wouldn’t know where to begin. Unfortunately, the networking geniuses replaced the funny “L.A. to Vegas” with that piece of crap. Figures. Sorry to be off topic, but Propaganda is Propaganda. I honestly wonder if anyone from Watchtower HQ moonlights as a writer for “Lethal Weapon”. I’m not even joking.
Lloyd, I don’t have a Twitter account, but I read your recent tweets. You’re right, standing up for justice is not bullying. Don’t listen to the idiots who criticize you for respectfully requesting feedback from those organizations, on the WT DV Policy issue. Also keep in mind, and this is something everyone should be aware of, some, if not all, of those “critics” could be actual JWs posing as apostates.
On the Domestic Violence issue, watchtower seems to be standing on its tried-and-tested Philosophy of “Leave it in jehova’s hands”. Yeah, it’s okay to get the snot beaten out of you, because your reward is coming … in the future … maybe tomorrow … maybe the next day. Maybe 1914. Maybe 1923. Maybe 1935. Maybe 1975. Well, for SURE before the end of the 20th Century!!! Same old tactic used by every religion to keep the serfs in line. The Arabs say, “N’sh’Allah” – “God willing”. The consensus among the Faithful is that, if your situation sucks, that’s no reason to take action, because it must be God’s will.
Old – but still funny, and relevant – Yakov Smirnoff joke:
In America, you have so many channels on television. In Soviet Union, we only have 2 channels. Channel 1 is State Propaganda Channel. Channel 2 is KGB Officer ordering you to turn back to Channel 1.
I may be a little slow, but it just dawned on me. The Watchtower Society really is the biggest and worst cult in the world!
I’ve been following the interesting, budding Twitter war regarding Watchtower Society’s abusive Domestic Abuse policies and Lloyd’s efforts to respectfully elicit some kind of response from Women’s Aid organizations. The people who oppose those efforts and accuse Lloyd of “bullying” those organizations (which of course is ludicrous – how do you bully an entire organization?) are either complete dimwits or are doing a very good job of pretending to be complete dimwits. Either way, they are unwittingly exposing their own contempt for women for all the world to see. Indeed, Jehovah’s Witnesses witnessing to the world through Twitter, but this time they betray their true feelings. You can run, but you can’t hide.
This is exciting. A Second Front is opening up, and the Watchtower vermin know it. Thus all the hostility. They are trying to crush it before it gains momentum. They are already being hammered on the Child Sexual Abuse issue. Now with the Domestic Violence issue, if the attack is pressed, they may end up with more than they can handle. Could panic be setting in?
Without trying to sound cynical, any JW victims of Domestic Violence out there, something to start thinking about: legal action, police, restraining orders.
Since I mentioned Jehovah’s Witnesses and their true feelings, I think it’s safe to say that the average Jehovah’s Witness knows almost nothing about their own religion. My mother had a fridge magnet with the tetragrammaton on it. I know that some JWs had key chains or even bumper stickers with the tetragrammaton. This was a practice that was neither encouraged nor discouraged by the so-called “Governing Body”. However, that representation of Yahweh’s original name is completely inaccurate. Those characters are indeed Y, H, W, and H…..in modern Hebrew. In ancient Hebrew, the language in which the Old Testament was written, those characters are completely different, in fact closer to Phoenician. Thus, the Watchtower’s version of the tetragrammaton is wrong. Yet more proof that just because something happens to be printed in The Watchtower (or anywhere else for that matter), does not automatically make it true.
I see we have 200 million year old examples of petrified wood. I’m wondering, when God made the trees with the wave of a hand, how many annual growth rings did he put on them?
So interesting you practice NO religion at all yet you still try and um, fail to use the bible correctly.
What is also interesting….is that you come out and act holier than thou against shunning TTTHHHEEENNNN ban me from your youtube channel. Don´t worry folks. You will not see theses comments either. Ole dirty hippie ¨Lloyd¨ will delete these comments and ban me here too. Total hypocrite.
Yeah, hobgoblin238, maybe that’s because your comments are childish and emotional, and don’t seem to have any point.
PS The only real way to “correctly” use the bible, is not to use it at all, or just to use it as kitty litter box lining. Just my humble opinion.
PPS Have you yourself read the bible? As in, the WHOLE bible? Just curious.
@hobgoblin, it didn’t happen. Why is it that when brothers bring up the true situation to the elders, they get shut down? On several occasions I tried to talk about the court cases Watchtower lost, on a personal basis with elders, but they shut down the conversation straight away.
Hobgoblin doesn’t want to talk about that.
Any JDubs out there, please feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. But to my current understanding, the Watchtower Society’s policy on Domestic Violence can be summed up as follows:
1. Beat the snot out of your spouse.
2. Cry a lot and beg forgiveness.
3. If Step 2 doesn’t work, and your spouse goes to the elders, proceed to Step 4.
4. Repeat Step 2, but this time in front of the elders.
5. This will result in either …
a) The elders telling your spouse to “leave it in Jehovah’s hands”,
b) The elders telling your spouse to pray/read/study more, or
c) The elders encouraging your spouse to work on themselves to become a better partner.
6. Rinse & Repeat.
PS Has anyone ever been disfellowshipped for Domestic Violence? Is Domestic Assault even a disfellowshipping offense? Anyone from HQ like to respond?
One reason the elders resort to 5a, b, and c, is because it’s EASY, and most elders are INCOMPETENT BUFFOONS WHO DON’T KNOW HOW TO HANDLE REAL-LIFE SITUATIONS.
Great points and summation Resister!
The vast majority of elders have no college background and even less training in sociology, psychology, psychiatry or anything that resembles family counseling. Though they maybe well intentioned it would be futile for anyone suffering from spousal abuse to go to the elders and expect relief as most of them are blue collar workers in non professional fields. The same reasons apply as me going to an automotive shop for a tooth ache. Other than commiserating with me an auto mechanic would be of no use fixing my toothache and the same case applies to taking my car to the dentist for a tune up.
The Society’s stance on “professional counseling” is frowned upon for the same reasons as pursuing higher education. The Watchtower believes that the Bible has all the answers to mankind’s problems, family or otherwise. That’s where they are totally wrong and misguided.
The Governing Body fears those with college degrees and professional councilors as these ones could easily see that the friends are in a high control group and, as professionals, would encourage the ‘sheeple’ to leave the Jehovah’s Witnesses cult. Thus the sad situation that abuse victims that are Jehovah’s Witnesses find themselves in. A trap of the body, mind and spirit; backed up by the misinformed elders applying mistaken Biblical beliefs. It’s the old F.O.G. treatment ( fear, obligation and guilt) applied once more. Pathetic!
So true, Beester. WT leadership is terrified of any of their people having contact with the “outside”. So many suffer from depression, yet if any went to see a psychiatrist, what would the professional tell them? Probably that their condition is largely a result of a slavish lifestyle that keeps demanding more and more. But would they / could they even accept that diagnosis as reality? After all, they have been conditioned to believe that they are “the happiest people in the world”, living “the best life”, and that any negative feelings must be the result of living in a “Satanic, demon-controlled, evil, wicked, un-Godly world that hates Jehovah and his witnesses” and will soon be destroyed – that is, as soon as enough “overlapping generations” pass – they just have to be PATIENT.
Patience IS a virtue, but like anything else, only in good measure.
Be too patient, and you could end up being A patient !!!
Be “long-suffering”? Sure.
But an intelligent person asks, How long is “long”???
PPS JW ladies, how long do you plan on putting up with this crap?
Lethal Weapon Donut Patrol, I’ve been following those tweets too, and I totally see what you mean about people pretending to be dimwits. Nobody can be that stupid for real. It’s obvious they are trying to misdirect the narrative by throwing all kinds of curve balls, trying to twist and distort the logic of Lloyd’s argument and motives. You may be right, sir. PANIC may indeed be setting in!!!
The hostility and hate coming from those people is phenomenal. And yes, so is their obvious contempt and disregard for women. What misogynists!
Watchtrickster uses the same Grand Strategy that the so-called FemiNazis have been using for decades – the idea that women are in on some special secret “wisdom” that men are not privy to, and need to “figure out”. And if we can’t, they’re certainly not going to tell us! Every religion has used this concept of a specific group of “elite” individuals possessing some unique, mystic, special knowledge (“wisdom”) that the followers are either too ignorant to understand, or have not reached that level of “enlightenment” yet. Pure and simple manipulation, mind rape.
I recently watched a movie, on Dailymotion I think, called WarGames (1983). Long story short, the moral of the story was, There’s no point in playing if you can’t win. In fact, sometimes the only way to win IS by not playing. Translation in modern terms: DON’T GET SUCKED IN TO OTHER PEOPLE’S DRAMA. And that means, Don’t believe in Voodoo Magic, Smoke & Mirrors, or Holy Spirits! If you do, you may as well bend over, roll a red carpet up to your ass, and wait patiently as every passing Tom, Dick, and Mary reams you to his/her satisfaction.
In other words, DON’T BE FOOLED. Let the cowards and the dogs wallow around in their “holy” scrolls.
Every religion has used the concept of a specific group of “elite” individuals possessing some unique, mystic, special knowledge (“wisdom”) that the followers are either too ignorant to understand, or have not reached that level of “enlightenment” yet. Pure and simple manipulation, mind rape.
I recently watched a movie, on Dailymotion I think, called WarGames (1983). Long story short, the moral of the story was, There’s no point in playing if you can’t win. In fact, sometimes the only way to win IS by not playing. Translation in modern terms: DON’T GET SUCKED IN TO OTHER PEOPLE’S DRAMA. And that means, Don’t believe in Voodoo Magic, Smoke & Mirrors, or Holy Spirits!
In other words, DON’T BE FOOLED. Let the cowards and the dogs wallow around in their “holy” scrolls.
Has everybody seen the news yesterday
that Watchtower just lost a court case and has to pay $35 million? In Montana. https://missoulian.com/news/state-and-regional/montana-jury-awards-m-in-sex-abuse-lawsuit-against-jehovah/article_1bcabb7c-7381-574b-a2ba-e011cc0250a6.html
The elders refused to obey caesar’s law to report a pedophile.
For how long can they bury their heads?
Saw it. Loved it.
CHEERS everyone! +++ sound of glasses klinking +++
Ricardo, I doubted you back in the day, when you said you were at odds with the elders, and got DF’d. I believe I called you a lying sociopath. Over time, it seems you were indeed being sincere, so I apologize for doubting you and calling you names.
It’s hard to know who you’re dealing with through a computer screen. That’s why I call it Antisocial Media. LOL Even dealing directly with flesh-and-blood “friends”, I have been betrayed and lied to many times. I’m sure my experience is not unique.
Sometimes it makes me wonder if Evolution took a wrong turn somewhere, and started to create mutated people who are genetically incapable of telling the truth.
Politics aside, perfect laboratory example: Donald Trump.
@Resister, as I have said to others: after dealing with the elders, nothing anyone says can be more insulting than them.
Having become used to being misunderstood, I have developed great patience and insight .
I appreciate your apology and thank you for it. That’s very good of you, although I was not at all offended by whatever you said. But we’re good. No problem.
Cool. But it doesn’t mean we’ll be taking long hot showers together till the wee hours of the morning.
:D :D :D
Montana – Another victory for truth and righteousness!
I read the judge has to review the award in Montana. And like in some other WT cases he could set it aside and order a lesser amount. Also WT says it will appeal like it usually does. I still believe the largest awards will still come through class action lawsuits, which are bound to eventually come if WT fails to get out of this mess it’s in before the next five or ten years.
Bethel told the elders not to report to authorities in Montana. I guess that’s a clergy mandated reporting state. If so those elders and Watchtower also broke criminal laws. In California we can serve time for that if there is no statute of limitations that could prevent it.
I don’t care what they say about you on that other site, messenger. You’re ok.
Resist watchtower
Resist watchtower
RESIST WATCHTOWER
Tired of family members who are elders or elders’ wives pulling “rank” on you?
Fed up with elders using their perceived “authority” to bully you?
Had enough of being treated like a twelfth-class subhuman?
Well, good news! You too can be an ORDAINED MINISTER!!! You can start throwing your OWN weight around, with the credentials (Certificate & I.D. Card) to prove it!
Here’s the link:
venganza.org/ordination/
Thank you. I will do it!
So I see Lloyd’s clicker is up to 32 days with still no substantive response from those Women’s Protection groups. Those organizations deserve praise for the good work they do. However, their silence on this very serious point is enough to make you go, “Hmmmmm.”
Those organisations could be run by a strong Christian element and give tacit but unacknowledged support to bible ‘values’ hence the ‘quiet and hope it goes away’ approach. Just a thought.
Perhaps the Clown Prince of the White House will do something about it. Oh, forgot, he & his staff are all about victimizing women, not protecting them. Oh well, at least we have USMCA. I feel better already. But then, I’m a man.
Remember Judge Judy’s Court with Judge Judy?
People’s Court with Judge Wapner?
What was that other one? Was it Rapist’s Court with Judge Cavanaw maybe? My memory’s a bit foggy. I drink too much.
Come to think of it, haven’t noticed a lot of female names here lately. Ladies, you still out there? This kind of concerns you. If you’re worried about breaking a nail, just type gently. ;)
Is the whole world suffering from A.D.D.? Now that there hasn’t been a fresh article in over a month, have most commenters taken off golfing? Can I come? And folks wonder how lying abominations like Watchtower and Trump can still exist.
Just sayin’.
LWDP, you’re welcome. Me too!
33 days. If you want to know who is in control, find out whom you are not allowed to criticize. Maybe those Women’s Aid groups are afraid that if they say anything, it will be met with swift and vicious retribution by Watchturd. And they may be right. Fear is a reflexive emotion experienced by all living creatures, to some degree, when in danger. We have no control over that. We can only mitigate it. LIVING in fear, on the other hand, is a choice! “Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both.” Like the liberty to speak your mind, what we know as freedom of speech. Frankly, I don’t see any risk in a little tweet, simply acknowledging in a respectful way that Watchtower’s spousal abuse policy is wrong. Unless it’s something else, like a “jurisdictional” thing. Maybe they prefer not to share any credit for helping women, with a gnarly group of unaccredited apostates. Sorry we don’t have a fancy logo and such. And we’re certainly not at their level of effectiveness and expertise in this endeavour. But then, all we’re asking for is a little tweet. Great old maxim: An OUNCE of prevention is worth a POUND of cure. The BEST way to combat injustice is to change ATTITUDES. And that includes unequivocally CONDEMNING the kind of SATANIC propaganda coming out of Watchtower headquarters. EVERYONE should be lobbying to have Watchtower’s advice to abused wives classified as HATE SPEECH.
Watchtower, why do you hate women?
Do you have Mommy issues?
What’s with all the old white dudes on the Geriatric Body? Is Yahweh a racist?
PS Looking forward to that Leah Remini thing.
PPS She’s so pretty!
Watchtower must love Hehr Trump – MARA – “Make America Racist Again!”
Correction: Herr Trump
…
The absence of resistance from JW females regarding Watchtroll’s satanic spousal abuse policy leads me to personally conclude that most JW ladies are only interested in securing protection and food, not unlike animals. Let them and their male counterparts spew all the verbal diarrhea they want – their actions / inactions betray them.
Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither and will lose both.
… Reminds me of the dysfunctional relationship between Archie and Edith Bunker.
Greetings Resister,
I chose wisely. I have not been in an abusive relationship. I can only imagine what emotions may be involved in such a relationship. As a woman I can understand why security may take preference, depending on the kind of abuse of course. Children must be protected, period. But I would suggest that until you are a woman in such circumstances you may wish to refrain from your final comment. To suggest that a woman who chooses security doesn’t deserve it is wrong. You go so far as to call such a woman an animal??? Perhaps you have no idea of the emotional toll that could cause another person to feel unworthy of seeking better circumstances for themselves whether man or woman. Perhaps you have no idea what their next situation would be if they did leave, might it be even worse? If they left their spouse how much family and friends may decide to shun them rather than help them? I don’t know, do you? Resister you make bold comments at times some of which I find spot on, some not so much. I have no desire to start a war of words and time consuming bantering, but because of your degrading comments toward women I must say Shame On You. If you feel you must take me down a notch or two have at it.
May you find peace with yourself…
Canada Supreme Court stated: “If the elders determine that the member does not exhibit genuine repentance for his or her sins, the member is “disfellowshipped” from the Congregation. Disfellowshipped members may still attend congregational meetings, but within the Congregation they may speak only to their immediate family and limit discussions to non-spiritual matters.” – Source: https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/17101/index.do section #5
… However my understanding is that immediate family is instructed not talk at all about anything, not even to respond to a text message from their disfellowshipped family member (Convention video). And thoughts?
@PKay, you will find that what is written and what is expected practice are two different things. Let me give examples:
As mentioned, if the person is genuinely repentant they should not be d’fed. However, a CO can put pressure on a judicial committee to give an appropriate punishment for a sin, thus negating whether there was repentance or not.
Or, as in my case, the elders were able to establish a pattern of negativity towards the leaders (glorious ones). Once a pattern is established, no repentance is possible because it is not a single act but a pattern. If the elders don’t like you they can find a pattern in whatever you do. You are minced meat. And if Jehovah allowed you to be d’fed then the decision must have been right, otherwise Jehovah would not have allowed it. So although the Governing Body is not inspired and are fallible, the Judicial Committee elders are inspired and infallible, it seems. Speaking against their decision is the same as speaking against Jehovah, because what is bound on earth is bound in heaven.
As to the treatment of d’fed members by their family, the latest videos show that complete cutting off of any contact is expected. Although what is written in the publications is mentioned above in the Canadian Supreme Court, reality based on the videos (the regional convention video plus a video about followers of Korah) is completely different. This is why it is difficult to expose the real situation of shunning: there are mixed messages, with the hardline response being the expected response and peer pressure in the congregations ensuring that it is the given response: complete non-contact.
I didn’t go to your posted link but what you described as the court’s ruling sounds like it just upheld Watchtower’s position. If immediate family is defined as those within the household that’s been Watchtower’s position. Nothing changed. The court sided with Watchtower if what you said is correct. I am not aware of anyone winning a court case on the disfellowshipping and shunning issues against Watchtower. It might have happened. I don’t know about it. It’s not worth spending your money for that.
The lady that started Silent Lambs, Anderson, did that and ended up getting a court ordered judgment against her in a counter claim. And it was quite large.