A few weeks ago I was contacted by one of a number of active elders who are “awakened” from Watchtower indoctrination, but who must keep up a pretense of being loyal to the organization due to being threatened with shunning.
This elder told me that he had recently attended the special meeting between his circuit overseer and the local body of elders.
Apparently, an unusual topic was brought up towards the end of the discussion involving official instructions on dress and grooming that echoed Tony Morris’ infamous “tight pants” rant at the 2014 US branch visit.
There was little I could do about this story at the time, because it was one anonymous person’s anecdotal account that was impossible to corroborate. Occasionally I have to put a story like this on the back-burner until further details emerge.
But then, to my delight, a bethelite recently approached me with parts of the circuit overseer “outline” featuring the exact material the elder described. Scans of the pertinent parts are below. You will notice that circuit overseers are only to start discussing the material once ministerial servants have been dismissed from their part of the meeting…
Three things stand out about the above instructions to elders. Perhaps most significantly, the guidelines shamelessly discriminate against people who, by their nature, display traits of the opposite sex.
Homosexuality has long been condemned by the organization thanks to various passages from the Bible. But now Watchtower is taking matters one step further. It is not enough to simply refrain from acting on one’s homosexual impulses, which are widely acknowledged to be with someone from childhood rather than being learned behavior, as Watchtower insists.
In the wake of these new guidelines, merely acting in a camp or effeminate way if you are male, or in a tom-boyish way if you are a female, is enough to render you a second-class citizen if you are a Jehovah’s Witness.
This removes arguably the last argument commonly used in defending the organization’s homophobic stance – that it is okay to be gay so long as you don’t act on it. Now a person’s very nature is being brought under scrutiny, and elders now have a free license to inflict misery on any Witness who wrestles with their feelings toward others of their gender even if they are being careful to observe the bible’s prohibitions on homosexuality.
The second, rather obvious point is that sanctioning the kind of clothes someone wears is the very essence of totalitarianism. These latest instructions could have come straight out of a page of George Orwell’s 1984.
Whether someone chooses to wear tight fitting clothes or not, or is inclined to wear their hair in a style reminiscent of the opposite sex, is clearly a personal choice and has nothing whatsoever to do with whether they are a good person or not. Watchtower’s obsession with appearance demonstrates to any reasonable onlooker that the organization is now primarily concerned with the superficial rather than the spiritual – with the earthly rather than the heavenly.
It would be hard to imagine Jesus pulling someone to one side and scolding them because their garments were too “tight fitting,” “revealing” or “highlighted the body.” By contrast, Watchtower is now pursuing such trifling matters with pharasaical fervor, to the point of telling someone they can’t go preaching if they don’t fall in line. (I understand many ex-Witnesses reading this would feel relieved to be banned from the tedious door-to-door work, but let’s remember the mindset of indoctrinated Witnesses, who feel their participation in the ministry is a life-or-death matter.)
It was in 1 Corinthians 4:6 that Paul (whose words are so often quoted in support of Watchtower’s ideas about clothing) is reported to have instructed: “Do not go beyond the things that are written.” It will be difficult for any Witness reading this information to not see that this is precisely what the Governing Body is unashamedly doing – going beyond what is written in the Bible and making up new, arbitrary rules based on nothing more than personal opinion and preference.
For some reason known only to the likes of Tony Morris, the style of dress and grooming that was fashionable in the 1950s is what God has in mind for all Christians if they want to survive Armageddon, and anyone who wears anything more modern and fashionable is treading on thin ice.
This brings me to my third and final observation, which is to note the ease with which Tony Morris’ personal homophobic fixations have translated into official Watchtower policy.
As I noted at the time of his eccentric ramblings at the 2014 U.S. branch visit (see above), the smartest thing for the Governing Body to do in the wake of Tony’s ludicrous performance would have been to eject him from their inner circle. Doing so would have sent a powerful no-nonsense message that the Bible is the organization’s sole authority, and there is no room for egos or personal crusades.
Instead, with the issuing of this circuit overseer outline, the Governing Body has done the opposite. They have shown that either (1) they are easily manipulated by a strong personality, or (2) they have shared Morris’ “metrosexual” concerns all along and just didn’t have the guts to enact laws on the subject until now.
Either way, the evidence that the Governing Body is deluded and completely unworthy of respect or veneration is there for all to see. And as yet more secretive, eyes-only material like the above continues to seep from Watchtower’s increasingly porous walls, we are being treated to a warts-and-all portrait of a backwards bunch of senile, deluded men with nothing left to offer but narrow-mindedness, bigotry, and a doomsday fantasy.
Further reading…
- Tony Morris scapegoats gay people in bizarre child abuse denial rant
- Dear Watchtower, THANK YOU for your “tight pants” copyright complaint!
- Rawstory: Jehovah’s Witness leader promotes child safety cartoon with homophobic rant
- Freethinker: JW chief targets gays in child abuse video
- Pink News: Jehovah’s Witness Leader, “homosexuals” are child abusers
- After his branch visit performance, is “Tight Pants Tony” now a liability for the Governing Body?
- Deluded or dangerous? – My thoughts on Anthony Morris III following his Rome visit
Related video…
I can’t imagine how the elders would police such things as brothers with effeminate mannerisms and sisters with masculine hairstyles.
This kind of directive to elders makes me think they are desperate to assert control in an area where their control is slipping.
Dear ruthlee and others.
I have had the same idea of asking Lloyd to write an article on the subject of the 144.000. It is a really crazy subject though. I am of the “70-80 years generation from 1914”, meaning I was a teenager at its peak, so I lived it. Later I have studied the subject to be sure of how crazy it was and is. The counting down, now up, of the annointed, the “peace and security ” era and “the generation” was all a dangerous cocktail of “wild speculation”. And I fell for it.
Well, I would welcome an article on the subject. I am just afraid that it will not be read by too many who needs an awakening. But few also count.
As Jesus stated, he didnt come for the self righteous, but for those of us who are cast out and beaten down by man made amendments to Gods law. If the article is prepared it will be read by the ones that matter most, those brave souls who survived the cult and made it here.
jwfacts.com has well rounded information that topic.
@Anonymous: Hey! Cut through the mist…I was actually bolstering your view with scientific fat. But, storage of fat is a simple equation of calories in and calories out.
You are absolutely right about the unqualified assertions made by the GB Muppet Show. Any qualified Puppeteer out there that could get a “Spitting Image” (all UK TV viewers unite here) to get an online show going? Just a passing idea.
There are a few elderly sisters in our hall…who have whiskers…and a couple of them have a severe hair cut…one of them is a pioneer….I know a few young brothers who are very aware of thier appearance and are fairly flamboyant in dress and grooming…at least two of them are Ministerial Servants…I think as long as the young ones are children of influential elders they will be fine…and that older sister is an elders wife…so I guess the masculine manner will be ok….cynical I know but thats the way it is.
Anyone wonder why the idea of the overlap kicked in regarding the “anointed GB”? The reason is relatively simple; they don’t believe what their master (Christ) said in Math 24 which says “this generation will not pass away until all these things occur.”
If you try and apply the notion that a generation= must equal 70 or 80 then it becomes a trap for young players. As most of you know there are people who have passed 70/80 with ease. So it is not a rule.
So how does the “generation” that Jesus referred to in Math 24 be understood and has it passed away? That is the big question.
If you have access to the Awake magazine 1988 April 8 there you will see and article discussing this, and I might add that I don’t think the GB read the literature anymore, because you will see that the article discusses the Greek word “Genea” and its implications.
So lets reiterate what Jesus said respecting this generation when he said “this generation WILL NOT, (capitals for emphasis) pass away until all these things occur.” The questions are twofold, first, who comprise that generation, and second, are they still alive?
As that Awake mag notes, with some very good reference works (not WT sources), that generation comprises of people who were contemporaries to an event, namely the beginning and duration of an unprecedented period of trouble on the Earth. I know from 45 years ago that Witnesses argued over how old you had to be so that you understood what was happening in 1914. That view was a mistake, and a big one (I fell for it too). So the criteria for that generation at that time is not whether you understood, But WERE YOU ALIVE, (again capitals for emphasis), meaning that if you were 90 at that time or were a newborn babe and were alive,your age was not the criteria but whether you were alive, you were part of that generation. That is the first part.
The second part is this are they still alive? YES (for emphasis) if you check Google for people older than 101 years, which I did some months back, there is around 1 million world wide still alive, I even saw a news article just last week about a 105 year old Japanese man set a new world record for running in his age bracket ( I had to laugh, how many could there be) and a friend just sent me an article about a 112 year old. But time is running out which ever way we think and we will see what will happen and probably sooner rather than later.
@Anonymous… You seem to be an intriguing person with a reasonable level of intelligence.Could you be kind enough to give me your personal opinion on Münchausen Syndrome as we had a sister in our congregation who either herself was ill or family member was ill with one dramatic illness or symptoms after another to draw sympathy to herself & is still ongoing years later as she is a desperately unhappy person because of the trauma of her dad divorcing her mum at the vulnerable age of 10 & then her husband who was an Elder committed suicide Whats your personal opinion whether the Truth & JW organisation has a disproportionate number of people like it in it that have deep emotional issues???
& maybe some Ex-JWs have Münchausen Syndrome because it doesn’t disappear once someon leaves the truth? … Would you say?
@mashed, do you know what Munchausen Syndrome is?
Do you perhaps have two personalities, one called Pickled Brain and the other Mashed brain?
Are you mad at me for some reason?
When I first made a comment about my son being overweight, I was not calling anybody out in particular on their comments about the Governing Body being hypocrites.
I agree wholeheartedly that the Governing Body are hypocrites (trying to extract a straw from other’s eyes) when they pick on people for tight clothes and the way they act if they don’t act feminine enough of manly enough when they have a “rafter” in their own eyes with overeating.
When we comment here, we have to keep in mind that not everyone commenting here is of perfect weight and comments like that are very cruel and insulting. We have to remember it’s the Governing Body we have a problem with, not each other commenting here.
Some of us might be considered overweight and we do not deserve to be called names and gluttons. A lot of us have children or relatives who are overweight too and making hurtful comments like that are cruel and thoughtless. We all know how to lose weight by cutting down on calories and exercise. If it was that simple, there would not be such a problem with obesity in the United States.
anonymous,
An explanation but no apology.
I wonder if I will get an explanation for the torrent of abuse that I suffered?
I am not holding my breath for an apology!
I have noticed a concerted effort by this individual to divide and conquer which has spectacularly failed to achieve its purpose.
Praising so very many for comments so insightful that Oxford University Dons would hand them honorary Doctorates whilst heaping abuse on me about my weight, my mental stability, my moral dignity and my principles.
I do not see how anyone could see you as an attention seeking person. Your comments, over many months, have been consistently insightful, balanced and informative.
That this individual saw this in you is far more revealing about their character than yours.
Here we have an individual that seeks attention by bizarre punctuation and mediocre humour; and when his mediocre humour spills over into a vitriolic crusade against obesity, and he is politely called up on it, launches into a vicious diatribe against me.
I am sorry that you had to experience that at such a trying time for you. My heart goes out to you, anonymous. I lost my father to cancer a few years ago, and so I can empathise a little bit with what you are going through.
I hope that you and others on this site understand that I wanted to stick up for you, because I don’t think that anyone deserves the rudeness you received.
I am off to swallow a whole bottle of Prozac and visit my good friend Peter Sutcliffe who has been a boon, he really has!
After all, I have proven over many years of commenting on this site that I am nothing but a self righteous, fat headed, weak willed hypocrite. It’s true, I’m constantly being very rude to people…..apparently!!!!
I hope that you receive an apology from this individual, and not just another explanation.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@ Excelsior .. I think you are losing the plot. I think PB is getting into your Psyche.What do you think PB?…. Hmmm . Well as I have been going to night classes for tactfulness ? .. My teacher ,Mrs Mashed says I must learn to apologise more often ! …. So PB says to you … O Great One .. Sir Excelsior ..I am so sorry for calling you a Fathead!! ..I meant to say ,’I am so sorry for calling you a Self Righteous Hypocritical Fathead’
Listen to Gameisover post whose advice is to concentrate on fighting the GB not between ourselves .. Please it is so childish !! Act like a grown adult !
Anyway I hope you accept PBs most humble apology. Lots of Love Pickled brain
Pickled brain. To imply that I had Munchausen was uncalled for but thank you for trying to make amends in a backhanded sort of way. If I had space, I have an awful lot to say about my life, than a very heavy book could hold and my experiences are not unique to most people here. We don’t have to make up stories here to be believed and we aren’t telling these experiences to garner sympathy but to help others learn from what happened to us so they it doesn’t happen to the next person or we tell our experiences to put our arms around others who have suffered and are suffering because of this religion. These experiences are common in our religion, which you must realize by now, don’t you?
I saw some of your other comments that Lloyd deleted and you do have a tendency to jump to the wrong conclusions quickly and say things that you must realize are not politically correct? You realize that don’t you? I have done it too, but fortunately, they don’t get published. Be thankful when they get caught before getting published.
My own husband will make mean comments about people’s weight when he himself is quite overweight. Sometimes when we hear comments like that coming from another person, we don’t want to be mean to the person and cut them down at the knees and make them feel foolish about what they just said, but we try in a kind way help them to see that comments like that can hurt others’ people’s feelings.
We all make mistakes and say things like that without thinking but in the end it really is a kindness when someone tries to help us learn from our mistakes and not do it in the future. It may make us feel bad at the time, but we all make mistakes and we should be glad when we don’t go around with big green boogers hanging out of our noses in public, if you get my drift.
Thank you so much Excelsior for sticking up for me. I feel you are my protector and friend and I appreciate that so very much!!!
Bottom line is; WTBTS, GB, and WT leaders are all a bunch of con-artists! The problem is they are not getting better at it, but worse. Did you happen to see the David Splane tap-dancing session on JW.Org? He should have been wearing a straw hat and cane with that soft-shoe routine. He was a hoot trying to back out a convincible ‘new light’ story to their latest failed prophecy. Most anyone would see that and then conclude it was complete BS and a cover-up.
I face the fact that this organization is a destructive cult. Always has been and always will be. (Hope that’s not for long.) They lie, twist facts, make up stories, threaten, coerce, mislead, mentally torture, charm, etc…. to get and keep membership. I am so glad that I’m no longer associated with this cult!!!
Ok I’m not the sharpest knife in the draw but my view on ‘generation’ goes like this…. when I was born there were people alive… my nanna and grandad, uncles, aunts etc… there were people born after me… cousins, children, grandbabies… whilst I am alive this is my generation. I try to think of it as overlapping circles with me in the middle. Now most of the older ones who were alive when I was born are dead… I have moved to the side and i myself am one of the older ones… My children are in the center. when I die, they will move over and their children (my grandchildren) will be in the center… does that sort of make sense?
To my friend Pickeled Brain/Mashed Brain; I wanted to say thank you for your kind words. I just saw your comment this morning. I am very happy that you would consider me a person that would stand up for a friend and I hope that I am that man.
To everyone that got ‘put off’ with the comments/advice about weight or being too fat I’d just like to say that I believe it was all said with the best intentions. This line of commenting or ‘thread’ got started, I believe, because the Bible doesn’t say too much on tight pants or hair cuts but it does make comments on glutinous habits, laziness and it makes several direct comments on fat people (Eglon comes to mind). Now I’m like Lloyd and I don’t really believe in the Bible anyways so I don’t care what it says. But there are many scientific facts proving that eating too much and not moving around is very bad for you. One lady made the comment that her son is obese and he is also single as well as depressed. Of course, no one here knows who he is so we are not poking fun at anyone, but if you could encourage this young man to be more active and to lose weight then he would feel more confident, have a more positive attitude and his health would also improve. It can be as easy as stopping drinking sugary drinks and going for a walk or bike ride every day. There are many Meet Up groups online and I would encourage everyone to take a look at this wonderful way to meet people and to get active. There is a film called Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead that is very encouraging. It shows a couple of obese men who completely changed their lives by simply drinking vegetable juices.
Apart from the evil cult we are attempting to escape from, there is the evil food industry out there that is killing us with carbs and sugar. We are outgunned because the foods today, like fast food and processed food, shouldn’t taste as good as it does! There are scientists studying how to add sugar and salt plus many weird chemicals that trick us into overeating. The health care industry loves it because we get cancers, diabetes, week bones and decaying brains from all of this crap they we are eating.
So, although maybe some things were not presented in the correct manner, what was said was not wrong. Instead of being self-conscious about our state let’s encourage each other to eat better and to be more active!
@JJ .. Well .. Thank you JJ for your heartwarming comments . Much appreciated! And I must say very constructive & helpful advice for those who need it ..I have had a text from PB & he says he is attending night classes in tactfulness ??
I think you will find that some people who are obese have far deeper issues than those that can be answered by a Juice diet…..also being obese does not mean you are not intelligent enough to guage the relatiobship between calories in and excercise and calories shed…I know your coming from a good place but I really didnt think I would be coming onto a site that judged anyone on how they looked or what they believed…I thought this was what we were trying to escape from…it sounds incredibly judgmental and very much like an Awake magazine of a few years ago on obesity…I have 2 friends … intelligent women… who have terdible trouble with weight issues and thier problem is not easily solved with just a quick fix solution it can take time…..and I have always loved the humour and wit of pickled brain…it has cheered me up many times…I just feel he we must stick together and realise our common aim…its to stick together against this evil judgmental cult….no in fighting about beliefs or image….lets stay on track and show the unity that this cult lacks.
idontknowwhattodo,
I sympathise with your point of view, but I do not share it. I respect it but I do not follow it.
It would be lovely if we could all get along and never fight. Lovely but unrealistic.
I shall never shy away from politely calling out rudeness and offensive behaviour. I will not tolerate them.
We need to avoid the same trap that the WTBTS fell into a long time ago – that unity is worth any price. It is not.
I will not support, condone or excuse rude and abusive behaviour directed to me or anyone else who posts here.
If I at times slip into ad hominem attacks, it is only after they have been directed at me first. I try to avoid them when possible.
I had some truly sad news this weekend. I am ok, but it really upset me.
To come onto this site, and read offensive comments directed to people like anonymous who I really like and respect was not conducive to a happy day!
Suffice to say that I have taken your words into consideration.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Pickle brain: you are doing it again! Stop the name calling.
I have very much enjoyed Excelsiors’ comments since I started reading Cedars blog. He is witty, deep, loving and friendly.
Can we stick to exposing the watchtower cult? And to cheer up one another so we can heal a little faster?
To all, please note “anonymous” and “Anonymous” are two different posters.
I think Job 42:16 explains how long a Generation is. Seems simple to me.
Hey good point Almost Anonymous! That is simple. I will be referring to that scripture. Regards
The Truth about Spanx
Spanx is a hosiery company created by Sara Blakely in Atlanta, Georgia. Sara is a businesswoman with a net worth of $1 billion USD. She is married to Jesse Itzler. She has 3 children. Sara is a hard working woman. In 2006, Sara launched the Sara Blakely Foundation to help women through education and entrepreneurial training. In addition, she became the first female billionaire to join the “Giving Pledge” and donates at least half of her wealth to charity.
Web Site: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sara_Blakely, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanx
Sorry Anthony Morris the Third, the idea that tight fitting clothing is created by the Homosexual community is a false statement. An outright lie. As you can clearly see Sara Blakely is active in the community trying to help people and make them feel good about themselves. Unlike yourself, Anthony, she helps people and does not degrade people.
We heterosexuals never think about sex, therfore seeing a person of the opposite gender in tight fitting clothes is shocking and appalling. In fact those Mormons might be on to something with their modest underware that must be wore at all times. And swimsuits, please don’t get me started, really do you have time to go the beach? It’s the last days for crying out loud, no time for that.The only swimsuit you ever really need is for your baptism and you’ll want to wear at least one or two layers of street clothes over that.
And who needs special clothing to exercise in, really, just walk faster between those not at homes, or push a preaching cart further, and you get all the exercise you need all while wearing your formal bethel approved attire.
Don’t let me catch you near water without an XXXXL T-Shirt down to your knees. What will people think. If I see so much as one man nipple, help me governing body, I will sell your hall so fast….
Is that above the knees or below?
They want the women to all end up looking like Sister-Wives dont they…………Polygamy next?
He probably feels threatened by a successful woman, as that doesn’t fit into the JW mindset that all females should be yeswomen for the male gender. It is unthinkable that a worldly female should be more successful than a Governing Body member! (Or should I say more successful than the entire Governing Body put together.)
That was a reply for “Doc Obvious”.
Doc Obvious,
Outstanding comment!
Thank you for highlighting yet another error from our favourite GB member, Tight Pants Tony!
One would have thought that the “spirit” directing these “Christians” would have the power to fact check?!!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
You’re welcome, Excelsior!.
I learned from grade school to college to examine all the facts before you speak or write something. I never take anything someone states on face value. Many things that are spoken about in New York are complete nonsense.
Other nonsense areas include:
The Watchtower construction projects are considered “sacred service”. Really? Buildings can reason about Bible topics. I don’t think so.
The Governing Body claiming to be the very “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class”. Yes, having over a 1,000 cases of child abuse gets you the famed “Faithful and Discreet Slave Class” designation. Hardly!
Construction is the most important activity a Christian man or woman can engage in. We will need it in the new system. So, we need Electricians and Plumbers in the new system? We need huge homes to store all of our stuff (Computers, TV’s, Books, Cars)? Don’t think so. Nice try.
Simplifying our life is to build a resort near a lake and live an epicurean lifestyle with a remote control lake. At the same time tell publisher slaves to stop thinking about material assets. Don’t think so.
Notice how we quote the society says this blah blah and that is the trap they have got all this stuff around their ears. Its more often than not the pious opinion not the Biblical stance. In fact i would go so far to say it’s always the pious opinion now which is why none of it make any sense at all. A point from sunday past there is this attitude in my kh that we all have to come up to speed before the end .As if the almighty has to wait on a few jdubs to get their haircuts and pants right before he brings the big A!.It is so arrogant and deluded.On the anointed issue (sorry keep bringing this up) I think we should take bets on the number for 2016 Mines around the 21,000 mark any other ideas?
All across the Bible, from the building of the Ark, to the Israelites in the desert, to Jesus number of days in it, and after resurrection( many others to mention a few) everything points to 40 years no more no less for a Biblical generation. Breathe easy friends the proof against these false prophets is in the biblical proportions. (Literaly)
Deutoronomy 4:2
Deutoronomy 12:32
Deutoronomy 13:1-10
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
1 Samuel 8:4-7 GB over Christ?
Proverbs 30:5,6
Mathew 24:24
Galatians 1:6-9
1 John 5:1-21
Revelation 22:18-23
The fact that 8 million people are still in despite the abundant proof of apostasy coming from Watchtower just goes to show how powerful their brainwashing methods are. These poor souls will start a mass exodus as soon as they have access to the overwhelming proof against the watchtower.
http://www.jwfacts.com english
http://www.extj.com
http://vigilandoazion.blogspot.com.es
For Spanish friends
Please share these life saving tools anonymously if you must with all your friends on social media, heck count the hours as life saving hours to make up for the brainwashing we once played a part in.
Why are my comments dissapearing? I’m sticking to the rules
Their not disappearing, .their overlapping.
I’m going to say 18000. If they are around long enough I wonder what their going to do when the number reaches 145,000?
I agree with you about making God out to be so petty that he wants you to start wearing MC.Hammer pants before Armageddon. This organization has TERRIBLE ethics and yet God is willing to ignore that because of the trousers the men wear and the “butch” haircut of the women. Biblically speaking there is a mention about the “braiding of the hair”. I’m surprised they haven’t jumped on that.
Tony Morris: “hahahahaha that’s Ridiculous! The governing body isnt unreasonable.”
All across the Bible, from the building of the Ark, to the Israelites in the desert, to Jesus number of days in it, and after resurrection( many others to mention a few) everything points to 40 years no more no less for a Biblical generation. Breathe easy friends the proof against these false prophets is in the biblical proportions. (Literaly)
Deutoronomy 4:2
Deutoronomy 12:32
Deutoronomy 13:1-10
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
1 Samuel 8:4-7 GB over Christ?
Proverbs 30:5,6
Mathew 24:24
Galatians 1:6-9
1 John 5:1-21
Revelation 22:18-23
The fact that 8 million people are still in despite the abundant proof of apostasy coming from Watchtower just goes to show how powerful their brainwashing methods are.
These poor souls will start a mass exodus as soon as they have access to the overwhelming proof against the watchtower.
http://www.jwfacts.com english
http://www.extj.com
http://www.vigilandoazion.blogspot.com.es
For Spanish friends
Please share these life saving tools anonymously if you must with all your friends on social media, heck count the hours as life saving hours to make up for the brainwashing we once played a part in.
So, here’s a question, just making sure I’m keeping up with new light.
No effeminate qualitys allowed for men,
But we’re required to shave our beards, does this mean were now required to grow more back/chest hair to compensate?
As Lloyd said on JWpocast.org this is all taken out of the book of Opinions. I guess only the GB and elder class have access to this life giving Elixir. As far as that other book, The Bible; it actually forbids even the trimming of your beard. Again you have to remember that these 7 Sith Lords probably don’t have so much as an associates degree in basket weaving amongst them. Their “interpretation” of scripture will always differ from anyone who has been contaminated with that secular educations critical thinking and reasoning capabilities. Another thing that they completely ignore is all of these sisters in Spanish speaking congregations that look like the cast of Lilo & Stitch that despite their indigenous Montesumas long lost love child appearance (I’m one so I can say it) insist on bleaching their hair blonde, same goes for sisters of African heritage, weaves, blonde hair, colored contact lenses, and these 7 idiots are focusing on my properly fitted Brooks Brothers suit?
Notes taken from Jwfacts.com
1)Men naturally grow beards, being the design of God.
2)The Bible provides the example of Israelite and Christian men with beards, as a guide for us to follow today.
3)The Mosaic Law forbade people from shaving, highlighting God’s feelings against men being clean-shaven – see Leviticus 19:27.
4)Shaving is effeminate and a homosexually inspired, androgynous fashion.
5)Shaving has pagan roots. It was likely first practiced by Egyptian priests, and later promoted by Alexander the Great. (See wikipedia.org/wiki/Shaving) During Christian times, Christians wore beards whilst the pagan Romans, such as Pontius Pilate who authorized the impalement of Jesus, were clean-shaven. (w05 9/15 p.10)
Be careful, don’t insult basket weavers.
They haven’t said anything about braiding of the hair because that’s in the Bible, a document the GB seems to be unfamiliar with.
Ruthlee, let me break from my normal sarcasm to spend a moment or two in the land of harsh reality, as to the memorial partakers, the number that is given each year is already edited. Let’s say you bring your bible study and their children to the meeting and low and behold they partake, they will not be counted, however what if you partake, we’ll that’s up to your local elder body to decide,it’s not automatical. Now further up the organizational ladder you go, do they apply the same discretion? You be the judge.
WHAT! you have enlightened me.Thanks. so glad i partake at home in private to my God without conscience or accusative eyes of the oh so holy jdubs.So glad i don’t have a human judge.So then, Pow all along this has been “doctored”in that elders judge who is acceptable or not. You know i reckon there will be not one vestage of truth left in the end. I’m not disappointed at your comment just another nail in the coffin.Bring on all exposure for sure. ruthlee
So POW what you are saying is that the ‘cup bearers’ make note of who partakes and then at an elders meeting they decide if that person is worthy to be mentioned as a true partaker and thus to be counted… Shame on them!
Basically, there’s no formal policy in place, but definitely a consistent pattern, furthermore you may recall the story “after the fact ” of a certain African country were something like 30% of the publishers partook, but, I don’t remember that spiking the yearly averages.
@Everyone- Guys I’m ROTFLMAO at these comments! (And I mean that in a good way! ;) ) Robert with his Lilo & Stitch comment had me going for 20 minutes! My colleague had to ask why I was crying so hard and told him it was a NSFW insider joke! LOL And Pow with his growing more chest/back hair to compensate for the clean shaven beard is insanely awesome! I think the funniest jokes are the closest to the truth… which shows how backwards this organization is! LOL
I attended a Kingdom Hall meeting 3 years ago & I walked in wearing my TNT security uniform since I went straight from work to the Kingdom Hall
Well instead of being greeted & warmly welcomed & the usual hello’s & how are you’s. All I heard was ” where’s your suit, what’s the matter you couldn’t change before coming to the meeting
I chose to ignore the hateful comments
I believe dress & grooming should be done tastefully & respectfuly however each person has their own likes & dislikes regarding this area, no
One has the right or should even have the gall to judge another’s attire, unless it totally overboard. People who are mature minded & respectful Don’t need to be counseled
Exciting news, and you heard from me first, the November broadcast will feature Anthony Moris III, as a buff Arnold Swatchnagger type “manly man” and he’s gonna kick our pansy ass’s in shape. No more girly men wearing yellow socks. Now give me 20, all the way to floor…
Maybe Toni Morris gets turned on by the men wearing tight pants and it’s too difficult not to act upon his own fleshly desires. Lol… Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
I’ve thought the same thing! The man is finding it hard to fight his urges, so he’s blaming all the tight pants wearing brothers.
Maybe Toni Morris gets turned on by the men wearing tight pants and it’s too difficult not to act upon his own fleshly desires. Lol… Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
Being such control freaks, I have considered for a long time that maaybe the watchtower is linked to other super-secret global controlling organizations like the illuminati and the bilderberg group. I know it sounds like conspiracy theory stuff, but you have to look at the parallels. There is control from dark smoke filled rooms by a very small group (“oligarchy”), manipulation of the masses to follow a specific agenda toward a certain goal (total control of all humans, *after* a culling of as much as 90% of the world’s population) and the similar terminology: New Order/New World Order. Some believe these plans go back over a century, saying the elite initiated World War I so they would have an excuse to create a universal government (the League of Nations…United Nations), with the support of the Banks who funded both sides. I believe that while the watchtower rails against the United Nations (as the scarlet Wild Beast of Revelation), it secretly supports it.
I forgot to add, isn’t it interesting that the watchtower really started gaining momentum around World War I? And how they manipulated years and numbers in the bible to come up with 1914? Did they already have a certain foreknowledge that something would happen in that year?
I would say that you’re giving C.T.R too much credit. Frankly He was throwing dates out at the time all over the place, later, followed by J.R.,when not one date worked out, they went quite for a dozen years then they slowly rewrote their own history over and over again, and walla, today it’s told like they had this thing all figured out. Nothing could be farther from the truth
As this a Survey site & PB has called Excelsior .. ‘A Fathead’ …, could we have a Survey thosefor … Excelsior is a Fathead ( Please vote ‘A’).
Excelsior is Not a Fathead ( please vote ‘B’)
If someone could kindly take the count as I am in the UK & going to be as it is 20 minutes to Midnight & I’ve got to go to work tomorrow .. I will log on in the morning to see the results !!
Sleep well Excelsior my fellow brother in arms against the Watchtower . I am sure everyone loves you here & the vote will be in your favour ???
Truth is the Watchtower went through a messy divorce from the ISBS which was led by Charles Taze Russel he left a board in charge of everything pertaining to his version of the organization. J.R.Rutherford and his followers expelled any Russelites left over and committed apostasy from their ISBS religion and started what would become the Jehovahs Witnesses. J.R.Rutherford exploited what Russel had started to live a life of wealth and luxury. To his credit he kept a distance from twisting anyone’s arm with his point of view. It was his replacement that would start a governing body, with a shunning safety net and put in place cult like agendas in the organization. All are guilty of going beyond what is written and handing out false prophecies left and right. The Bible instructs Gods people not to follow or fear anyone who claims God is going to do something and nothing happens. This is the way the God of the Bible said you’d be able to identify a false prophet. Most Jehovahs witnesses are ignorant of any of this because from the very first day of their very first “Bible study” they study every type of book hot off the press, but the Bible itself. They literaly choose “the bible for dummies” (What does the Bible really teach) over the actual Bible itself. They remain clueless as to how, from day one they are brainwashed with the agenda of this Stock invested, United Nation sponsored printing company. These “witnesses” for God worship a group of seven CEO’s in Brooklyn, NY
Deutoronomy 4:2
Deutoronomy 12:32
Deutoronomy 13:1-10
Deutoronomy 18:18-22
1 Samuel 8:4-7 GB over Christ?
Proverbs 30:5,6
Mathew 24:24
Galatians 1:6-9
1 John 5:1-21
Revelation 22:18-23
For the newbies to the site a little edumacation goes a long way. Make the time to learn your real history.
http://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc
Robert67, It never made sense to me that Charles Taze Russel would be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses if he was alive today or that JWs originated from Charles Taze Russel because of his teachings. This is what I love about this website. I enjoy this. It balances my mind. That’s awesome.
I was in a cordial conversation with the lady selling me a new phone, no less about this very subject.
I will call her “Sally”.
Sally told me her elderly mum is a JW. She told me that her mum said her congregation was “being cleaned out”. Multiples of people being publically shunned because of dress issues. People are snitching on people right and left. Sallys mum called what she was witnessing “a witch hunt”.
So Sally and i were talking, rather, she was crying about it. She told me about the pill incident, then this “tighty whitie” incident makes her feel like her mums life is in danger. Her mum said “its like a rabid dog feeding frenzy”.
So
Her boss walked by us. Sally told her she is teaching me how to use my new phone.(wheew) it worked !
We googled “spandex inventer”. This is what we found;
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Shivers
The most important concept we got out of it was Joseph was NOT gay.
It seems to me the GB is trying to spread lies and innuendos in a sad but terrifying attempt to “scare” their lost little sheep into continued blind and dumb submission.
So scary !
Sally said she was going to show what we found to her mum.
YHWH hates liars…but it seems to me that the GB freely tell lies..
So i conclude that YHWH hates the GB.
Just saying.
FYI
Sally WAS showing me hiw to use this new fangled phone..Sally wasnt lying.
Josephs wife, if she is still breathing air, and their children should file a defamation of character and liable against mr so scared of things tight…and the GB.
Folks,
Perhaps there will be a repeat of the WTBTS copying the Scientologists?
They have already stolen the idea of a broadcasting channel from them (much good it has done them!) so maybe it’s time for a Tight Pants Tony approved JW uniform, based upon the SeaOrg?!!
I can picture it now! Roman army inspired attire! The bible does speak of spiritual armour, and you’ve got to admit, it’s distinctive! Long, flowing robes for the sisters, and stylalised “armour” for the brothers! Imagine the luxuriant purple robes of the GB!!
They could get the sacked brothers and sisters from the Bethels, and transfer them to sweatshops to make them for free!
They could declare New Light and say that every JW has to weave cloth for Jehovah at home, and send bolts of cloth to Bethels!!
Of course, they would emblazon “JW.Org” over every surface!!
The Hari Krishnas have their distinctive robes! The Scientologists have pseudo Naval uniforms! The Catholics have their sumptuous regalia, and unmistakable Nuns!
Come on Tony! You have been able to parlay an abusive rant against homosexuals and modern styles into yet another control over eight million lives! You are on a role! Please, Tony, ask your Big Brother Jesus if he has some tips! Oh, I forgot, he isn’t speaking with you anymore, is he? Oh well! I’m sure that you will be able to find a fashion designer to help you create your masterpieces. Oh, but wait! All clothes designers are homosexuals!
It’s a tough assignment, Tony, but I’m sure that you can succeed!
This is truly disgusting. The well connected will not even be bothered by this, whilst the weak ones will be castigated over their choice of clothes. Choosing our clothing is one of the ways we try to distinguish ourselves and display a little of who we are. Now even this is being taken away.
As usual, the WTBTS are shooting themselves in the foot. Any who are exhibiting a personal flair are now much more likely to leave. After all, where did they get these “worldly” tastes from? There will be a race to the bottom, as far as style goes. Men will buy bland, baggy suits and forgettable ties. Women will cover from neck to ankle with voluminous, unflattering, colourless ensembles.
Carry on, WTBTS! This is another brick removed from your tower.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Folks,
Another thing to think about.
How far are they willing to press this? Can someone be disfellowshipped for being inappropriately dressed for “Field Service”? How many warnings would someone get before action was taken?
Rather than reaching out to “Satan’s world” the WTBTS seek to withdraw from it, replacing even the variety of different personal tastes with one homogenous, bland image from the 1950s.
I knew some sharp dressers when I was a JW. I wonder if they will respond to this “loving direction” and give up their cool togs? I hope not.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I’m sure it will come down to getting dissfelowshiped or publicly reproved for being disobedient to daddy elders.
Maybe we could have a service theme song, like m.a.w.’s Y.M.C.A., except it would be J.W.ORG., and we could all wear our loose fitting uniforms with our flat soled (modest) shoes, rolex watches and a lapel badge with a smiling Caleb, “it’s fun to go to the j.w..o..r..g
…yea….the..j..o…r..g…
.
Hey, I’m going to copyright that,,,instead of calling it the borg…….it’s the jorg.
@POW
If by M.A.W. you are referring to Men At Work (who sang “Land Down Under”) then you’re mistaken my friend. It was in fact “The Village People” who sang YMCA.
I couldn’t let that slide as I’m a huge music fan; sorry!
Good call, yes, yes, the village people, there wasn’t by coincident 7 of them?
THe village people…The collective village idiot! ruthlee/ruthless
Average Joe,
Quite right, sir! It was indeed those bastions of heterosexuality The Village People who recorded that excellent tune.
I wonder if folks in the SeaOrg dance to “In the Navy”?
We want you, we want you, we want you as a new recruit!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Sorry, I said I wouldn’t post this again, but if you guys are going to just come right out and talk about them, then how could I not? http://imgur.com/EGl3x6c
Okay, starting now, never again…
In regards to the earlier discussion with ruthlee and tara concerning the partakers count, it opens up a bigger discussion even related to the topic at hand.
There are policy letters that are circulated to the service desk at the branch level , however, below that level everyone else is only left guessing what exactly is the standard by which decisions are being made..think Australia commission, the Jensen letters concerning use of blood, medical majahana and so on…then there are the letters cent to c.o.’s as is the case in point, concerning dress and grooming and before that use of appointed brothers who allow their kids to go to college, ect….the Elders never see those letters, only discuss them. Then there’s the b.o.e. letters to Elders, not to be shared with publishers…and so on….thus, alot of policy that effects every jw is never actually seen in print. ..
Because, CULT.
I will even go one step further, based on anecdotal evidence and say that if your in the service department your given information and told not to even share it with other bethel departments, same is true with legal, writing and so forth…..if your in i.t. dept. You see nothing and hear nothing, confidentiality must be maintained at every level.
My only question is this:
When are we all going to go to a convention Tony Morris is speaking at, and dance around him in tight pants while he’s doing his celebrity meet and greet and lunch!?!?
I’ve been working on my rump shake, and I think it will get him second guessing his sexuality, and before long… he’ll be an apostate, too!
Twerk him in florescent hot punk spandex bike shorts
Just saying
Pink
Sheesh…i can ruin a good joke
In regards to tm3’s rants….I will say this, when you cannot fix the big problems then attack the little one’s, it’s low hanging fruit. The r&f, then feel like something is really getting done, even if it’s just a war on yellow socks, tight pants, spanks and getting a higher education and gives us all something to talk about and feel guilty.
Loosen things up a bit, this youtube ex-jw activist asks, What is the worst congregation you ever attended?
http://youtu.be/DnoJ_rrQmco
Robert67, Let me know when the next video is out. I don’t know what to look up on u tube. That video is funny and I’ve been to congregations just like those. Sometimes the truth is funny. Made me think of bad congregations I’ve been in. Thank you for that video.
Hi JKL,
According to Jesus words in Matthew 24 the chosen ones were all selected in the first century. Jesus said “this” generation (meaning the generation of his disciples) would see the things prophesied in chapter 24. We don’t know for sure when Revelation was written. When Revelation speaks of 144,000, I am of the opinion that it suggests a complete number not necessarily an exact number. References to the great crowd and the holy ones both being before the throne also suggests they may be the same group as well. So what this means is all anointed for heaven would have been living in the first century. I don’t beat myself up over all of this. We’ve all been duped into not believing Jesus words. What I did for over 40 years was done with a heart desiring to please God. I’m sure you and most others also acted out of a true heart. Spiritually speaking it puts us back to square one but that’s okay we can keep learning and growing. This time making sure of the more important things according to Christs’ teachings not men. That counts. Enjoy the peace that comes from making your own spiritual path based on the ring of truth as you hear it. Your faith will be your own and not what someone says you have to believe or else. Regards
eyes opened,
An excellent comment. I am no longer a person of faith, but I think your attitude is commendable.
I like the passage in 1John 4. God is love, and we are all in union with him if we love our fellow human beings. It’s a positive message that is diametrically opposed to the WTBTS.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Thank you Excelsior I appreciate that.
To eyes opened, a lovely and thoughtful comment.
Who knows eyes opened? Totally agree with you. We’ve all been duped but I guess we were allowed to stretch our wings, so to speak, as far as Christianity was concerned. The main point is that if we realise that we we’re going the wrong way and have been veered off the path, no reason to keep going on the wrong path or vowing not to go back on it. At least that is what I think.
@JB REEZNER
I spat my yoghurt out over my iPad laughing so much at your Village People montage of the GB. That’s worth a repost of its own so that we can reply to it. Please share again in a new comment. Can you embed images here in posts using the [IMG] tags I wonder?
Thanks for sharing.
With those mental images, the monthly broadcast will never be the same.
Thanks a lot Average Joe. I tried the embed thing on something else awhile back, but alas, it was a no-go (very possibly due to my mental inadduquaseees).
Here it is again http://imgur.com/EGl3x6c. Took me a few hours to make it, so I appreciated your feedback, amigo.
And thanks for takin’ me back in time with your Men At Work image down below (or “down under”, I should say…..ok, sorry….sorry..) Ahhh, but those were the good ol’ days.
@POW
[IMG]http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/B00004WK3X.01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg[/IMG]
Hello everyone,
I hope you have all been well. I have been on holidays for the past week & reading through the comments, I noticed that things got heated. I felt like I walked into a bar after midnight & found PB drunk with all of the comments above. haha. I couldn’t help but laugh at his new name and alter ego.
Anyway about that letter. I can just see how my congregation elders would go about it; They would make it a kind of congregation needs style of talk & intertwine the council through the talk. Then use some really shocking trivia that goes with it to emphasise their point.
I remember when baggy jeans were the fashion & one of the elders made sure that we all understood where that fashion originated from… Supposedly it was a way for gay young men to hide their incontinence pads that started a fashion trend in the jails. I’m not sure how true that was but I remember everyone moaning with disgust in the audience & it worked.
To Meredith, I’m sorry I didn’t see your reply till today about a meet up. I thought that maybe if you are with jwrecovery we could pm each other.
Grace, I have to say that’s a new one about the baggie pants, I seriously have to doubt that since it seems to relate to L.A. gang members, hardly ones to be seen inbracing the gay community . I was told that when you go to prison there’s no belts, thus it’s a statement about serving time in the big house
Pow,
Yeah I think it’s probably one of the many urban legends that go around that become “fact”.
Just to add to my last comment. Often our elders would council someone through public talks or local needs to not isolate anyone which I thought was kind of them to do. I just can’t see them being able to do it any other way without offending people.
@Grace.. PB drunk??? … I am glad I gave you a laugh with my altar ego … I have noticed PB slurring his words recently especially when he comes back from his night classes on tactfulness … I hear the classes are being held down at the pub (that means bar to the Yanks) .. The name of the pub is called Excelsior !… Come on PB stop needling that nice man.
PB has told me he has always enjoyed your comments & you are a genuinely warm caring person. You are definitely not out of place here so keep on commenting ! You encourage many!
Hi Grace
My hubby wanted us to get away for a few days up in the Snowy Mountains, so I have been absent too. Sounds like you are trying to reconnect with fleshly family again. Go for it.
It’s okay about missing each other, ships in the night and all that kind of stuff. I’m pretty easy going these days. I’ll try that website. One thing family love and that is celebrating Christmas. I mean completely. I think it tickles them pink. I know it’s weird but that is one way that they know that they have you back for good. Been through it all. Can’t get the lost time back but you can at least make the most of what time you have left. Accept them, warts and all. All the best with that one.
If you are sticking around, still here, if you want to meet. Sundeck or Evolve? You know what I mean.
To JB,
Please print that montage on a poster for us. That is priceless!
Thanks Grace! And welcome back, m’dear. I hope you and MJ can meet up one day. I guess you guys “might” be able to arrange it without my help, but I’m here if you need me. :)
Thank you JB, you are kind.
I was nearly not going to comment anymore as sometimes I don’t know if I have offended people with what I write.
I notice that there has been a lot of love going to some who are dealing with hardships. I sometimes feel like I don’t fit in here but I can’t help but put my 2 bobs worth in.
At the moment, I’m working on trying to reconnect with my non jw family which I killed off mentally when I was in. It was the only way that I could accept the “they’re going to die at armageddon” scenario. When I successfully do that, I will bow out. It has been 2 years & I still feel like they are strangers to me. I suppose we all have something that we are battling & that’s why we’re here.
Thank you Lloyd & JW Survey.
I support JB Reezner’s advice (below) to you, Grace.
As someone who has never been a JW but has been close to family members for over 20 years who still are JWs — though some are now inactive or fading — I think you should trust yourself to reach out and re-connect with your non-JW family members. You will know with whom it’s appropriate to do so, and with whom perhaps it isn’t.
Don’t forget that all us human beings make errors of judgment in life, whether we have a faith in a deity or not; and there is something sublime and life-affirming about developing new friendships with our blood relatives.
The experience won’t just be healing for you, it will be healing for them too. We’re all in this together!
Dear Grace I also echo JB and Everyday Explorer’s comments. You have never said anything to offend anybody and if you stopped commenting, I would also miss them.
If you are close enough to connect with them, I am sure they will be so glad for that and welcome you with open arms. If you can’t visit them, then there are phone calls too. I am sure they missed you as much as you missed them.
We care about you. Take care, whatever you decide to do from here on out.
Grace,
I echo the comments of anonymous and JB Reezner.
Trust and reconciliation take time. Be patient and remain hopeful that your family will reconnect with you.
Do you have family gettogethers? They are a great way to share memories of closeness before the WTBTS cult ripped you away from them.
There was a time when you were close. Before the dark times of being in a cult. Try to reconnect with that person. How did that person feel about your family? What did that person have in common with your family?
You could try calling them for a five minute chat semi regularly and see how that goes.
Do your family understand why you rejected them? Do they understand that it was the cult self that rejected them, while your true self never stopped loving them?
In my experience, an explanation of why something happened is the starting point of the healing process.
I hope we continue to enjoy your comments. I really like your Australian sense of humour and your insightful observations and opinions.
Good luck!
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
I hope you can have that reconciliation with your family, Grace, but I hope it doesn’t mean that we lose your voice here. I haven’t been on this site as long as you have, but in the time I have been here, I don’t remember reading anything offensive at all from you.
Participation on this website is an emotional roller coaster ride. I hope you stay around as long as you can. You are well-liked here and your comments are certainly appreciated.
I haven’t had the problem you are dealing with regarding non-JW family members. The pain of thinking my family was going to die became so intense for me, I finally just had to tell myself that it can’t be possible that Jehovah is going to kill them. They had their own problems and insurmountable obstacles in the way of them accepting “the Truth”, so a God of love would not kill them for that. I sort of lied to myself, but that’s clearly a moot point now.
I think just being honest and expressing profound regret to your family will be the way to go. The natural bond among flesh-and-blood relatives is usually resilient enough to recover from some fairly substantial damage. I hope it all works out well for you and all involved, Grace.
To Every day explorer, Anonymous, Excelsior & JB.
Your comments are so good for me. I came home feeling more lonely than ever. I blame myself for the distance between my family. When we first converted, my family were big on gatherings. When we stopped going to our first Xmas gathering, I was so self-righteous about it, saying pagan this & pagan that. I know that I broke their hearts.
Then my close brother & sister-in-law had there first daughter who was born months after our daughter died so they named her after me & wanted me to be her godmother. How rude was I to sprout that it went against my religious beliefs. I feel remorseful over that.
I just kept insulting them, rejecting one thing after another; birthdays, family funerals, weddings in other churches etc. Sprouting my self-righteous new beliefs. But they kept hanging in there on the side line because they didn’t want to make my world anymore despairing with the grief that I was going through but I knew inside they were quietly hoping that one day I would come out of it.
Now I’m in the position of telling each one that I was wrong & I battle between pride & humiliation. These last 2 years have been about making sure that I have made the right decision so that I don’t put everyone through this again and coming on here has been the encouragement & confirmation that I needed. The learning, the love, the fights, the humour. It’s all been helpful for us all on here. I can say that you are my friends.
Much love to you all.
Oh Grace…. know you are loved :) This site has become family to me. I wake up and check to read the comments… and come home from work and check again. I may never meet you (any of you) but you are family now. Reach out to your family
Grace, you describe your non-JW family as a very loving group, having had your best interests at heart when you were in a very painful and vulnerable situation. With that, I’m even more hopeful and encouraged that they will react to your attempts to fully reconnect with them with love and understanding.
I think I probably speak for many here when I say that any updates you wish to provide as you progress through this process of reconciliation will be very welcome here among your friends. I hope–and do believe–that things will go well for you, but whether it goes smoothly or is challenging, please keep allowing us to be a source of strength and encouragement to you, as you are to us.
So if T3 has ants in his tight pants over assuming, and he is, that tight fitting clothes are made and designed by homosexuals then how would he view us driving around in cars that were designed by them, or furniture in his luxury apartment at bethel that was designed by a metro-sexual etc etc etc… I bet his big puffy tie and hanky wasn’t designed by a butch guy with tats. Maybe those polyester suits that are deemed appropriate were designed by a gay guy….. we could go on and on. I was checking out a few spandex and yoga clothing places and the ones I looked at were by married couples or women… so with him mentioning spanx is he not opening himself and the WT up to legal action? Has anyone sent these companies his video?….
Joseph shivers was the spandex brainchild..
His wife and children should sue
Hi just stumbled across this site as I was searching typed in ‘JW’ & this one came up . Wow I cannot believe there is such a great site as this . I am married to a circuit overseer & began having doubts when I saw the F&D start up their TV station last year and saw & heard them in the flesh for the first time . Very bizarre rantings from these men of Christ !
Welcome, Happy Hen. You have some amazing discoveries ahead of you. This is the part of your life where you find out that all of the little questions that nag you about the things that “just aren’t right” with the Organization are not coming from anywhere bad. Rather, those questions are originating from your repressed powers of reason, your conscience, and your good heart.
I would recommend that you read the recent articles, and then look over and find “Article Categories”. Start with the topics you’re most interested in, and find the answers that you likely already felt must be out there somewhere.
Don’t be scared off by anything you read in the comments section. This is a large group of people, and there are many different views represented among us. But the thing we all have in common is a desire to encourage each other and watch as more and more truth is uncovered about the Organization that most of us sacrificed so many years of our lives to.
Mrs happy hen YOU maybe the one we have been waiting for. You should try and trawl through the “back catalogue” to see what you have missed, see what we are coming to and see where the org is heading.You dear hen are in an unique position you see the rank and file jdubs on a weekly basis and are at the grass roots.Just take notes for us here (mental notes) i think you will have, and gain tremendous incite and useful info.Ihope you won’t be put off by our daft banter and our own rants on occasion.The difference is we rant to vent not to judge and condemn.So sis welcome to our frosties aposties site the new breakfast cereal for the enlightened. ruthlee.
@ruthlee Thank you for your kind comments.
I will be careful on this voyage of discovery!
Hello Happy Hen and welcome to the best site ever. You will find us a mixed bunch. Active, non-active, df’d, marked…. however we define ourselves we are all suffering from the effects of being a part of the WT. Most of us get through it by banter but you will find the information on here very valuable and sometimes unbelievable regarding what we have found out. Our eyes are being truly opened.
happy hen,
Welcome to JW Survey’s regular cast of commenters!
Lloyd’s archive of articles will be of great benefit to you as you explore just how deep the rabbit hole goes. You are on the cusp of information that will change the way you see the world, yourself and everything. Don’t Panic! We are all here to help you, despite the odd occasion of conflict.
Thank you for your courage in commenting here, I appreciate how difficult it is to begin and continue to wake up. I wish you a peaceful and constructive journey!
Some of us are already trying to recruit you! Please know that you do not have to do anything, we are all just so pleased that one more person is willing to give us apostates a chance to explain why we left, and why we want to contribute to this burgeoning ex JW community.
If you are a Christian, then I wish the Peace of the Lord and His Love be with you.
If you are not, then I wish you peace and I hope that you will find a way to live your life with compassion and dignity.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Excelsior . Thank you for your encouraging kind comments. You seem to have a good knowledge of the organisation& many value your experience .
Excelsior , my husband has a friend who is a ‘ ‘helper’ to the Governing Body when they meet up if I hear anything that is new I will try & note it down . They do meet up every few months for dinner as they both went to school together .
Thanks again .
Happy Hen;
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/
and a warm welcome. We’re all here to help!!
I was diagnosed with an eating disorder one year ago. A year ago I was twenty pounds underweight. Now, a year later I’m twenty four pounds over weight. My mom wants me to join her and come with her to the holy hall. Does the Jehovah’s Witness religion preachers punish people for having clinically diagnosed eating disorder? I see from posts it’s ok to be overweight in their religion. How will they view my eating disorder?
My mother loves me. I thank her for all of the kind adjatives she uses to describe me. She thinks going to the holy hall will help me.
Dominic, be careful my friend. It is when you’re in a vulnerable circumstance that cults nab you. This happened to my mother before I was born and I ended up being raised in it.
They call it a Kingdom Hall. People will be very friendly and welcoming at first. Keep in mind they are like this because they are taught to be this way with new comers. It will feel very genuine at first. After you become indoctrinated, you’ll notice the warmth die off slowly. But, by this point, you will have accepted it and not understand why you feel depressed. Then it takes a very long time to realize that it was all fake.
I hate to use the term fake out of respect for people, because it’s real to most who are in it. But this is why we, the people who have left, say we have woken up. Because it’s not until you wake up that you realize you were dreaming.
All I can say is be careful Dominic. No one can make the choice for you. I know your mother loves you, my mom loved me as well, she still does. Delusion, however, will affect your future greatly. Be smart about it. If you need a social circle or support group, there are plenty of healthy ways to find one. Don’t choose to be a part of a religion for friends and “love” you’ll find that it’s conditional and will leave you wanting and wondering.
Dominic,
You have my sympathy, sir. I wish you all the best with your ongoing treatment and recovery.
Please go and see your Doctor, and make sure that any treatment is overseen by them.
I’m sorry to say that you will find no real comfort or love in the Kingdom Hall of Jehovah’s Witnesses. True, you will find some individuals that are kindly, but the religion is a cult and it will want to use you.
I strongly encourage you to avoid the Jehovah’s Witnesses if you can. If your dear Mum is going and you have to go with her, then please educate yourself about mind control they will try to ensnare you with. Forewarned is forearmed.
If we can be of any help to you, then please leave us a message here. We will all try to help you if we can.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
Thank you everybody, you are very helpful. Gracias.
Yes, I to thank you
@JB. Thank you so much for such a nice welcome! I must say sometimes amongst the circuit overseers wives they can be so judgemental which I hate as no one really can be their true self in the organisation . It is all about image & their are cliques even amongst us !
From all your comments I can see you have all been badly hurt by the organisation .Looking forward to further discussions!
@ Beth sarim . Thank you for your welcome & great name you have. I love all these unusual names like Anonymous, eyes opened,excelsior,Gem,etc,etc
Sounds like fun here but also quite touching from the heartfelt experiences!
@Dominic . I am so sorry you have an eating disorder. It can be so hard for you as others don’t always understand the problem ,but don’t worry you will not be castigated amongst the Jehovah witnesses for this . Some of the circuit overseers & their wives I associate with are grossly overweight . One friend of my husbands is like Humpty Dumpty & is at least 60 pounds overweight !
It is ironic that the Organisation will counsel someone for the type of clothing they wear but one circuit overseers wife I shop with sometimes loads her shopping basket up with cream cakes, biscuits, & at least 5 bottles of wine every week . She says her & her husband like a bottle with their meal every day but abstain on 2 days a week!
P.S try not to get caught as you will find this site very addictive if you fully awaken. We will help you along the way in any way we can. Remember some of us are still fully in and fully awake and that is the worst place to be. but you are never alone.This is our safe haven even when we don’t see eye to eye because All are casualties in the war so all walking wounded and looking for comrades who understand the pain.Anyway be discreet. I’m in a holy battle with my elder husband so i reckon i’ll be for the chop if a dolly bird comes along (is that to cynical?) plod on and be happy hen reguards ruthlee
Thank you Happy Hen
Thanks eyes opened for your kind comment to the 144.000 subject. Though I am not a believer of the bible, the subject interest me because it helped me to wake up. So much “wild speculation” has gone into this subject, and continues to do so, that I hope for the thinkers amongst the Witnesses that it will wake them up too.
Take care everyone!
I remember when they had a problem with “baggy pants” when I was a teenager, haha.
Unfortunately the internet was just coming out back then, so you couldn’t share such non-sense with the rest of the world as easily. Not to mention waking up was nearly impossible since your only source of easily available information was from them. It took effort to go to the library and look something up. Needless to say their hard rules on only reading material printed by them. If I was still religious, I’d thank god for the internet and the information age!
Hello jwsurveyers, Sorry to go off topic here, but today I was shunned, by a person who was a close friend and had promised to stand by me.
My crime? I’m not DF or DA, but I haven’t been to a meeting in months.
This religion just loves to hate.
Don’t you just love the self righteous. Dear PBS you have friends here. Nothing is ‘off topic’ if you need to talk. Lloyd mentioned he would try and work in a forum where we could all just chat. Hope it comes soon. I was a householder last night lol. I haven’t been asked to be on the school for over two years. Suddenly, after being inactive and shunned because my daughter was df’d and then reinstated they ask me to be one…. hmm. I just chuckled to my self because it was so transparent. I think we started the new book last night.. I wasn’t paying much attention as I was looking for all the tight pants and haircuts, all the gestures that will soon cause ones to be condemned.
Thankyou for your kind words Tara.
I guess I will never understand how these so-called Christians can just turn their affection on and off like a switch.
We call those ones” theo nazi’s,” when the letter of the law just isn’t good enough, they take it to the next level.
Exactly pow, I think it’s known as pre-emptive shunning.
Absolutely, you’ve been marked. That’s where an elder sits a bunch of “mature” men in the congregation and gives them a big pep talk about being a shining light in the congregation and how they need to handle a special assignment that needs to be kept on the down low. “Remember that PigsB4Swine friend, well you, your spouses and kids need to keep clear of that individual now, for that individuals own good and please feel free to pass along the warning. Marking is a practice in every control cult. Don’t fall for it, if you stopped attending meetings and are heading out hopeing others one day might follow. You need to show how your awakening to the truth about their “truth” has brought joy and peace to your life. If your having doubts yourself please go over to http://www.jwfacts.com and go over the abundant proof against these false prophets. One of Lloyd’s videos about de programming tells you about the importance of research, research, research, in order to undo years of indoctrination by this cult.
Thanks robert, I will not allow these people to ruin my day anymore. These people have nothing I want.
I suppose it’s amusing to watch how they think they have some power over you. That if they give you the stink eye from across a crowded cafe you will do the decent thing and leave. Their cryptonite seems to be indifference.
The Flock Book has 140 plus pages of do’s & don’t’s.
Now the flock are being afflicted further with the personal
fixations and hang up’s of individual gb, members.
Isn’t there enough guilt, fear and neuroses already, without
adding more?
Jesus said God is looking for for those who will worship him
In “Spirit and Truth”. But this religion leaves little room for the
heart and the conscience to function, they are suffocated,
held in a strait jacket of absolute rules.
I’ve just come in from my daily walk, boy, the fresh air is
wonderful.
Ted,
Great comment, sir! I too like a good walk. I hope I can still do so when I am in my 80s.
More rules equals less control.
Moses started out with 10, and then they skyrocketed into hundreds.
Rules create more rules, it is their nature. Soon, there will be so many watching the watchers of those wearing the correct clothing that the whole thing will grind to a halt.
Peace be with you, Excelsior!
@Ted
“They are suffocated, held in a strait jacket of absolute rules”
I agree with this comment and will add that often, the elders go one step further and add their own interpretation to the rules in their own little kingdoms, which makes it even more oppressive for the individuals who are caught up in this tangled web of a religion.
Unfortunately, I found that the rank and file worried so much about how they were perceived amongst the congregation that they would absolutely follow whatever wacky rules were imposed upon them without question.
In this religion, appearances seem to be everything.
I will add in addition to all our written rules, we have 100′ of oral rules, for instance you can have a mustache but not a beard, no hair below the chin only above. Trade school ok, college, not. Count service time for working at warwick ok, your hall, not. 10 hour or more in service time=great publisher, 8.or less =low hour/problem publisher. I could go on and on….
Might as well be the Mary Kay cosmetics pyramid scheme. I’ve mentioned this before, but it is all about who pushes( or claims they do) the most product. Recently an outright autistic young man, son of an elder, was named Ministerial Servant because of his “ferver” in the door to door work. He isn’t qualified for most jobs and collects mental disability payments and when you speak to him its as if your speaking with a shy three year old. I have nothing against him at all, God bless him, but it proves my point about all, absolutely all promotions within this publishing company masquerading as a dooms day cult stem from who reports the most hours and magazines handed out. I believe they are actively seeking out those humble ones with an IQ of potato. If you start to sound like an actual motivational pastor who knows and who sticks strictly to Gods word you are marked as suspect. You MUST mention the glorious seven in every talk, prayer, dinner table conversation, We are Scientology with a different name. They’ll soon want us to pray to them. “Our Tony, who claims he’s going to heaven, tight pants be your name, thy crease be done in halls across the world, as they are in the Brooklyn HQ.” Ridiculous.
A prayer without mentioning the faithful and discreet slave, you mise well be praying to your gold fish,…I think I read that somewhere. .
When I was last in, in the 80s, all Caucasians in our circuit were ordered by the CO to shave all facial hair. Only Hispanic, Latino, and African-American bros were allowed mustaches. Because it was culturally acceptable. Whatever. I knew an older Greek sister who had a rather noticeable ronnie, but she remained in good standing. On the other hand, she was no Tom Selleck.
Notice they no longer publish the hours per publisher. I wonder why?
If you do the math, it looks like they were padding the hours for years until finally it was just to obvious and ridiculous to continue. If you do the math it is about 2 hours per publisher worldwide and about 5 hours per publisher in the U.S.
Maybe they can all start wearing the new JW.org flags as togas…
One last comment then I really need to get some work done, or else…..as far as acceptance, and it’s been stated before.
But if it’s your very first meeting ever, you can dress up like jack black’s character “nacho libera” and be welcomed with open arms. (In most halls). The problem is eventually you will be expected to fit excally in to an ideal mold. Which goes way beyond anything biblical, rules about hair,clothing, education, vacations, type of car, house, shoes, service time, meeting/assembly attendence including where and when, bedroom activities with your spouse, vasectomys, movie ratings, type of work and for whom, music, playing ball with your neighbors or workmates, what holiday customs are acceptable, like anniversaries and which are not like thanksgiving, ect ect…so, and so on…
Once you sign your soul over to them……
Reading Harry Potter and wearing Spandex…. bite me.