Watchtower representative Veikko Leinonen recently made an appearance on Finnish television in which he essentially denied that Jehovah’s Witness parents shun children who leave.
Asked whether a young Jehovah’s Witness can leave freely and start his own life, Leinonen replied “Absolutely, absolutely freely and we hope they will return freely and there will be no obstacles.”
Further pressed by the journalist to clarify whether such a person would be shunned, Leinonen emphatically replied “no” several times – perhaps wary that Jehovah’s Witnesses have recently been under fire in Finland for their judicial policies.
In dismissing the issue of shunning, Leinonen followed in the footsteps of other Watchtower representatives from various countries who have similarly found it necessary to misrepresent Witness beliefs to the media.
Regardless of his motives, those who are familiar with Watchtower doctrine will recognize Leinonen’s denial as a total contradiction of the way Witnesses are instructed. The July 15, 2011 Watchtower (to cite just one example) went so far as to liken disfellowshipped teenagers to Nadab and Abihu, the errant priests who were struck down by God for offering illegitimate fire.
“Today, Jehovah does not immediately execute those who violate his laws,” the article observed. “He lovingly gives them an opportunity to repent from their unrighteous works. How would Jehovah feel, though, if the parents of an unrepentant wrongdoer kept putting Him to the test by having unnecessary association with their disfellowshipped son or daughter?” (see w11 7/15 p.32)
It is this and other coercion from Watchtower that has a tangible impact on countless families, which are needlessly ripped apart whenever a family member decides to no longer subject himself or herself to the Governing Body’s self-proclaimed authority.
But Witnesses would do well to consider why it should be necessary for their representatives to employ evasion and deception when confronted on this issue. After all, is not the disfellowshipping arrangement supposedly a commandment from Jehovah? Should it not, on that basis, be something Watchtower representatives should be eager to explain fully and transparently, regardless of the PR ramifications?
Consider the following passage from a 2008 Watchtower…
“For more than 40 years, Jeremiah contended with apathy, rejection, ridicule, and even physical violence. (Jer. 20:1, 2) At times, he felt like giving up. Yet, he persevered in declaring an unpopular message to a largely unreceptive people. In God’s strength, Jeremiah accomplished what he could never have done on his own.—Read Jeremiah 20:7-9.” – w08 7/15 p.7
If Jeremiah supposedly persevered with an “unpopular message” under threat of physical violence, should this not serve as an example to Watchtower and its PR personnel? If a Jehovah’s Witness fails to expound on a commandment of Jehovah when directly questioned on the subject simply because this command is “unpopular,” is he not yielding to fear of man and revealing a shame of God himself?
There can be no doubt that Watchtower’s policy of shunning family members is “unpopular” with the public, and with good reason. It is a sadistic means of utilizing a person’s family as a weapon of punishment for leaving his or her religion, and as such represents a breach of basic human rights.
But rather than face the music and extoll the perceived virtues of their cruel practice whatever the backlash, Watchtower buckles under the slightest media scrutiny. Its devious denials and attempts at evasion are both cowardly and vulgar.
Though their crude tactics may throw the occasional journalist off the scent in the short term, there are some of us who are taking careful note and will continue to hold this organization to account.
Further reading…
What liar’s! It took no time at all for everyone I knew to stop talking to me when I got disfellowshipped. I still struggle with my parents who saw my son for a few hours since he was born 2 years ago and never even thought twice about not inviting me to there 40th wedding anniversary! It annoys me how hypocritical the JWs and can never accept that there wrong!
On a 2nd note I saw one of those new literature stands today. Lazy assed JWs sitting next to it weren’t even trying to speak to any one going passed they were just sitting using there phones.
They lie like everyone else in a world that they curse and condemn. In fact, possibly even moreso, as far as I can tell.
They don’t care who they hurt in their pursuit of world sovereignty. And they get away with it because the rest of the world doesn’t care either so long as they dress pretty and don’t carry guns or do drugs.
Good for Finland for looking into misappropriation of power.
Much like the mafia were hard to pin down at one point, it seems to me that the most effective thing is to focus on their taxes and benefits as an organization.
Poeple from all the world know specialy ex jw how they are suffering from shunning ! LIAR !!! When they are knocking to people doors ,never they mention result of eg. resignation from Peter’s organisation wich suppose to already pass armagedon,according to their prophecys !!!
I’m not sure that his comments are lies. I ” left ” 12 years ago and am not shunned.I’m probably viewed as a weak one who is in need of ” love bombing “. The question that should have been asked is ” Do you shunn someone if they dissassociate themselves” If the answer to that question is still a no, then I would say that is an outright lie.
Thanks Yobec. As I point out in my video, the intent behind the question asked of Veikko Leinonen was obvious. His reticence to clarify the varying repercussions depending on whether a “youngster” is baptized or not, has faded or disassociated, spoke volumes.
it must be hard for you to see your parents loose such precious and enjoyable time with thier grandchild while still so young. we grandparents only have about 7 or 8 years with the grandchildren before they become more interested in cell phones video games and thier friends.
how blind they are from the reality of what Jesus has shown us.
how anyone can justify acting towards children of disfellowshipped parents is beyond me, you would think that they, like any parent or grandparent, would look intently into the scriptures for any scriptural reason to remain in contact with my kids and grandkids.
Im so glad i read ‘in search of Christian freedom’
i feel a lot less stressed , and now Im armed with knowlege begining my approach to attempt to quietly leave the org. [after 45 years of my life]
I think it is quite obvious they are ashamed and embarrassed by this practice of shunning. They would have even more reason to be mortified if the public knew about such a practice.
A pertinent & well written article John.
It is obvious that Jehovah’s witnesses shun their former members & in some cases even those who simply no longer attend the meetings. In fact, this can also stretch to personal shunning among active JW’S (known as marking). It is disingenuous of the Watchtower Society, in the very least, to present the idea that shunning doesn’t happen, it does & yes it is most definitely organised by the Watchtower Society. Personal conscience is over ruled.
Sorry, I didn’t watch the video. I was responding to the written text only.
It’s just that I am aware of their “spiritual warfare tactics”. They will take advantage of the “words” that are used when beeing questionned. This permits them to ignore the intent. A once prominent member of the Brooklyn bethel member once told me that during an interview, “never give their questions more credit than what they deserve” .I will however, look at the video. Thanks for all of what you do.
I’m glad my JW mother has to shun me. It’s a very welcome break from her narcissistic delusional abuse. My brothers and I had to respect her no matter how much she beat us and argued with us as if she were our younger sibling. She thought air pressure closing a door or happening to misplace her keys was the work of the demons. She was obsessed with that. Anyone outside of the organization, and many within felt she was literally mentally retarded and shouldn’t be raising children, but they never did anything about it.
My hope is that a class action suit is organized and take these people to court. Get it aired out in front of the authorities in every country. If a petition was drawn up, it could get probably thousands of signatures of victims.
I know what you mean. They seem to be obsessed with the “demons”. Glad your finding peace.
The “original” version is on the link below and I’ve added detailed explanation in the video description. The English subtitles are by me and although I don’t consider myself a translator, they are accurate and are not fake. If someone from the “English world” wants a verification, drop me a line and I’ll get you the Finnish transcript which you can check with Google translator.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkwCOq_3Qyg
@chatpal
Your post smacks of a thinly-veiled attempt at proselytising to me. Just saying
ok i dont know how my post got where it is, sorry all, your probably wondering what im talking about, i was replying to someone and now do not see where that persons post is!
whos proselytizing? my post doesnt even apear to be in its entirity, i was trying to defuse frustration to someone who thought people on here
were being too harsh, and somehow that post is mia.
Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah’s Witnesses – Amazon.com
http://www.amazon.com/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/0802079733
Few people in the world have as firm a grasp on Jehovah’s Witnesses/Bible Student history as does M. James Penton. His book is a rich source of not only …
Brilliant post here Cedars!
I agree, the man isn’t outright lying, and I noticed how Cedars never claims he is. That doesn’t mean he is not being deceitful and misrepresenting how things are actually handled. He knows exactly what the reporter is getting at and he uses a loophole to answer the question the reporter is really asking. Since the reporter or the general public may not be aware on all the technicalities regarding disfellowshipping/disassociating, they don’t necessarily know the right questions to ask or that this man is hiding the truth. This man knows this full well.
As Cedars says, if shunning is mandated by god, why do the Watchtower representatives try to mask the truth?
They do something similar when explaining who God will execute at Armageddon.
Sometimes it is exactly clear that the only survivors will be the regular baptised Kingdom Hall attending door knockers.
When pressed, as above with the liar from Finland, they will waffle someting about only Jehovah knowing and deciding.
For a fact,shunning is real!!one can choose to ignore facts of truth as they choose;but truth will be brought to light in process of time…I knows for a fact that this is an ongoing problem in the org… it’s deep seated,nurtured,and cultivated…sometimes it’s disguised as marking,however when one becomes marked;then that one is soon excluded from free association with the members of the org…that too is shunning…they will want to deny this too… but shunning it is…just because someone choose for what ever reason to denigh these facts of truth that does exist ,does not mean that they do not!!!many are being hurt by this unscriptural practice…it needs to be addressed.
Alissa Heath, I am so sorry to hear how you and your brothers were abused by you mother. No child deserves to be treated that way. That must have been like your own private hell on earth. Neighbors and other witnesses saw your mother’s bizarre behavior, but turned a blind eye to her children’s welfare.
I’m glad that you are here with us! I’m sure it must be difficult to live with that memory of abuse. There are others on here who have also lived with parental abuse….for no apparent reason, other than the parent’s own mental delusional state of mind. I got spankings as a child, it was always because I had done something that I should not have done, or most of the time, for NOT doing something I was told to do.
John, If any of those reporters want the real truth about shunning, they could interview any number of us!
I believe the most horrific thing about shunning involves innocent children and grandchildren. JWs shun those children, just because their parent is disfellowshipped. How crazy is that? The baby or child is not guilty of anything. Why should they be disfellowshipped too?
That means that grandparents would rather ignore their own grand babies than to speak to their own child. I wonder if the media is aware of that? The Watchtower’s very own Scorched Earth policy!!
Very valid points!
In my 2 decades long experience with the Watchtower, the elders are not incapable of bending truth whenever the latter has potential to damage their interests. They may even justify this by referring to a couple of examples in the bible when deception was used to ultimately accomplish divine purpose.
Any claim by the watchtower that ANYONE who leaves them is NOT subject to shunning by their JW family and “friends” is a blatant lie.
Jesus was willing to die in defense of his beliefs and teachings, even if they were unpopular . Sad to note that those who so vehemently claim to serve him – who call themselves his faithful Slave – aren’t able to summon up the same courage for themselves.
The elder in question and others that deny shunning are n fear of being shunned themselves for not doing as the WT says in defence of the org.
The most telling is their own literature, would have been great if the interviewer had a copy of the WT articles that promote shunning family members and yes children as Cedars posted from the WT from WT11.
They are hypocrites and cowards, they can’t defend their policies so they lie, simple.
My association ceased about 30 years ago. I haven’t experienced how the “shunning” policy has developed. I want to throw in a few observations.
A colleague at Bethel and I were walking along a road in his home town of Derby, when a Man and his child started laughing and sneering at us as they walked by… we were not in field Service.
My colleague explained that the family has recently all got baptised together on the instruction of their Pentecostal Pastor. The entire family was then disfellowshipped. They were shunned.
This deliberate act was the only way, the Pentecostal Pastor, said.. to rid the family of the Evil JW influence.
In my days, “shunning” of disfellowshipped ones only occurred if their was an overt attempt to disrupt the congregation… and in this case, deliberate Apostasy.
Otherwise, though spiritual shepherding was left to the Elders,… we greeted disfellowshipped persons, assisted them in times of distress and encouraged them to return.
I guess that things have gone more than a little “wonky” since?
Any group would marginalise “dissidents” for the sake of the protection of others in the group…. just a thought.
Boiled eggs and rotten tomato barrage accepted!
GEM
John,i do know that this is a topic of great interest to you; since you have witness first hand how this unjust,disgusting and mean spirited practice of shunning can destroy loving family relationships.Not just yours,but countless others around the world.This has now become so pandemic that many are making they exodus out the doors of the kh,some boldly,some slowly fading as the powers that be keeps up a charade of denial to no avail.shunning with in the org is real,to me also it is one of serious concern as i too became the victim of this destructive enactment which has no solid scriptural backing!!!!!!!!! I find it to be in stark contrast of Jesus instruction to show love for one another….He did not say to shun one another, and yet this seems to have become the benchmark in the kingdom halls…so i keep asking myself in the words of a popular song :where is the love you promised me…and in the words of yet another sad refrain by teddy pendergrass :i thought i had it all in the palm of my hand,but i lost it,yes i lost it…and now it seem they lost it!! The way,the truth,and the light,they’ve lost it.
I walked away from the org 20 years ago and I am mainly shunned now by witnesses who knew me. I lost some best friends because I no longer agreed with all their doctrines. Last week an elders wife completely ignored me, even though we used to be good friends and visit each others houses regularly. It really amazes me how they think by shunning that will encourage me back. The complete opposite is true and I am sure most others would feel the same way
“Tool” , :-) I couldn’t write that:-) she’s a cruel mistress:-)
That’s nearly as bad as our math teacher called miss Pye. . Help :-) lol. Who writes this stuff:-) x
She was fat as well, OMG!
Who are these guys who’ve been chosen?
The same guy’s who have not been approved yet.?
Folks,
The “Shepherding the Flock of God” secret elders’ manual states that one cannot be disfellowshipped for associating with a disfellowshipped family member. Of course, one will be stripped of any privileges, and may face individuals marking one as a bad association.
So, officially there is no official need to shun, but there will be repercussions if one does not shun! Clear as mud, I’d say!
That’s how they get around it. Of course, there are innumerable articles and speeches at assemblies that exort Witnesses to shun anyone and everyone who does not follow everything the GB say.
There is a massive disconnect between the “official” elders’ book statement, and the increasingly hysterical articles urging shunning of loved ones.
Cedars makes a very valid point. If this shunning is a command from God, then why try to fog the issue with official yet secret orders in the elders’ manual and contradictory orders in the Watchtower? If it is from God, then have the courage of conviction and tell everyone that shunning is a biblical command!
Perhaps it may be beneficial for the Finns to be sent a scan of the “Shepherding” manual, along with the articles ordering shunning?
Another excellent article, Mr Cedars!
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
can “a child when he becomes a young person decide to be a Jehovah’s Witness or not.”
It is a personal decision whether or not to be baptised into the JW religion. If a young person is brought up by JW parent/s there may be substantial coercion to become a JW see:-
http://jwsurvey.org/news/guidance-or-coercion-new-watchtower-article-directs-parents-to-shepherd-their-children
“Can he leave freely and start his own life?”
This depends upon whether a young person has been baptised into the JW’s or not. If not they can freely disassociate themselves without in theory any sanctions against them. However if they are a baptised JW and they are disfellowshipped or they formally disassociate themselves by letter, then members of their former congregation and JW family members not living with them will shun them except for dealing with necessary family business. Many baptised JW’s just stop participating (fade) and are regarded as spiritually weak resulting in greatly reduced social association (marking) with them by active congregation members.
Id hate to be an elder, can you imagine the guilt and stress they carry? can you imagine being emasculated by the jw org? sometimes you can see the anquish in their eyes and body language when they have to make exscuses something thats going on. then these fabrications must become truth.
its like training a new recruit, withing three weeks of boot camp, someones kindhearted free thinking son becomes broke down, turned into a slave and a killer.
I don’t think they are either ashamed or embarrassed.
It takes genuine people to have those emotions .
I think they are plain deceivers, liars, knowing full well that they are throwing the stone and hiding the hand.
Also, they are puppets, repeating what they are told to say from up high. Hopefully this will backfire. Not only do they look like a very cruel religion, but also hypocritical, double tongued, merciless, exploitive and money hungry.
What lies! What liars!
(Psalm 12:3, 4) . . .Jehovah will cut off all smooth lips, The tongue speaking great things, 4 Those who have said: “With our tongue we shall prevail. Our lips are with us. Who will be a master to us?”
Their main weapons are their tongue and sex. The truth is (Jeremiah 5:8) . . .Horses seized with sexual heat, having [strong] testicles, they have become. They neigh each one to the wife of his companion.
Hi Miken,
You said : “Many baptised JW’s just stop participating (fade) and are regarded as spiritually weak resulting in greatly reduced social association (marking) with them by active congregation members.”
Why are the 99 percent of active JW now behaving towards a fading JW the same way the priest and the Levite were behaving when going down on the Jerusalem-Jericho road ? Answer : They just want and have to prove themselves righteous and they cannot even imagine that an inactive and fading JW may have fell victim to a serious injustice from one or more elders, because JW elders are considered too glorious to be able to do a serious injustice, regardless that a serious injustice made by them may now put a family life in danger.
I know what I am talking about and for the fading JW who needs comforting, there are more chances to receive it from a “Samaritan”, I mean somebody outside of the WT organization, somebody who is not forced to prove himself righteous, because continuously manipulated and brainwashed by the GB.
All the best. Thanks for reading.
They lie…..like cheap rugs.
Liar! Liar! Pants on fire!!! Look back at the leaked instruction to elders on disfellowshiping. Look at the watchtower articles. Listen to the ‘instruction’ during the 2013 conventions. The evidence is there. If anyone needs help, it is a wayward person. But NO! The GB (Lett, Morrison, and Co.) instructs you to be firm and carry your duty out! Bunch of cowardly liars and destroyers of families.
Joshua – I agree. The question was not ask correctly. If the reporter had asked if a person decides they do not agree with the beliefs and mentions this is the reason they are leaving will they be free to leave or will they be shunned. Plus the other part would be to mention this is a baptized person as well.
A lie of omission is still a lie–Jehovah, as the Bible shows, is a God of truth; and he expects his people to tell the truth, whether it be personal, historical or scriptural truths. Their line of reasoning is that only those who deserve to hear the truth will receive the truth, as outlined in “Insights into the Scriptures” under the subject “lie.”
Take a close look at his body language, the blinking eyes, the fake smile, even contradicting himself; which in itself is an indication of flat out lying. They’re hiding the REAL truth from this reporter, that’s all too easy to see. LIARS!!!