GB helper Robert Luccioni addresses elders on the broadcast
GB helper Robert Luccioni addresses elders on the broadcast

A few days ago I posted an article about a special meeting to which all elders in the United States branch territory were invited. The purpose of the LDC (Local Design/Construction Department) meeting was to unveil a new style of standardized kingdom hall that is far better suited for re-sale with commercial applications in mind.

As you would expect, rank and file members were excluded from the meeting despite their contributions paying for the buildings that were being discussed.

Now the entire 2 hour, 40 minute meeting has been leaked on YouTube. I haven’t had chance to go through it all yet, but I thought JWsurvey readers would appreciate the “heads up” and the opportunity to form their own conclusions about what was said during the event.

I am told there are copies of the video in private circulation, so even if Watchtower pulls some strings and has YouTube take the video down, you can expect it to pop up again somewhere.

When you add this latest leak to the leak of Watchtower’s elder training videos on disfellowshipping and suicidal ones 12 months ago, it should go without saying that the organization does not enjoy the uniform support of elders to which it aspires.

 

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Further reading…

136 thoughts on “Full program of United States elders meeting leaked on YouTube

  • February 10, 2015 at 4:49 pm
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    Have not seen a better comment lately.

  • February 10, 2015 at 4:51 pm
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    Pickled Brain,
    I just had a little read over that Daily Mail online article. I can not imagine the pain and suffering this paranoid schizophrenic caused. Some dear witness posted her lovely words on that website. She praises jehovah for forgiving Sutcliffe. She is sure he will live on into the new system. I say ler her imagine him being released on parole tomorrow and him attending her kindgom hall. Him sitting with all the lovely sisters. I’ll suggest she pray very hard Jehovah keeps him on his meds.

  • February 10, 2015 at 5:06 pm
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    If you go to jw.org at at the bottom of the page there’s videos to watch and if you click on the middle one and then go to the 2nd page there’s a video called Warwick #2 updates. It shows just what is all involved in moving the headquarters from Brooklyn to Warwick and it’s massive, requiring years of work from willing volunteers to complete the massive task. This would never be possible if it weren’t for all the free work coming from volunteers. Instead of preaching the end of the world to people who are going to get killed at Armageddon at any moment, these people are counting their time, building that Warwick compound.

    Even with all the “free” labor that is being paid for by poor JW donations, this place is still going to cost many millions of dollars before it’s done. Why is the Society spending all the donated monies for this project? On the right side of the page where you see that video on jw.org, they have an explanation of why they are doing all this and this is their explanation:

    “What prompted the planned move? Branch offices of Jehovah’s Witnesses in other parts of the world now share in the printing of Bibles and Bible-based literature, which was once exclusively done in Brooklyn. In 2004, printing and shipping operations in the United States were moved to Wallkill, New York, about 145 kilometers (90 mi) northwest of Brooklyn. Cost too was a consideration. It is expensive to operate and maintain the facilities in Brooklyn. By relocating to a compact facility, the Witnesses can make better use of funds to support their work of Bible education.”

    For the life of me, I can’t make out in that explanation why they are moving from Brooklyn to Warwick except to form some kind of “compound”. The explanation says that some of the printing is being done in other countries and that it’s expensive in Brooklyn, but they don’t really give a good explanation why the massive building project. At least I am not seeing it on their web site.

    Just because some of the printing is done in other countries, what does that have to do with the move? Are they saying that they would do all the printing in Warwick?

    To me, it seems like a huge amount of monies spent and labor and lost time in service, spent on something that could have been better spent, building those badly needed Kingdom Halls all over the world. In poor countries, they can build a nice Kingdom Hall for not much money at all.

  • February 10, 2015 at 5:20 pm
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    Was referring to Davids post

  • February 10, 2015 at 5:59 pm
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    @Peggy, that serial killer getting baptized doesn’t surprise me at all. Remember that account about Menasseh at 2 Kings 20:21 and 2 Chronicles 32:33 to 2 Chronicles 33:13? Here was a king of Judah who built the high places to false gods that his father had torn down, set up alters to Baal, built false alters in two temple courtyards, made his sons pass through the fire, practiced magic, employed divination, promoted spiritistic practices, put up a graven image of the sacred pole in the house of Jehovah, seduced Judah and Jerusalem to do worse than the nations before the sons of Israel, guilty of shedding innocent blood in great quantity, which according to Jewish Rabbis, included Isaiah, who the rabbis say sawed Isaiah apart at Menassah’s command. Then the Bible says that Jehovah kept speaking to Menassah but Menassah paid no attention to Jehovah so then Jehovah brought Assyria against Menassah and captured Menassah and bound him with two fetters of copper and as “soon as it caused him distress”, Menassah softened the face of Jehovah “his God” and kept humbling himself greatly because of the God of his forefathers and he kept praying to Jehovah so that Jehovah let himself be entreated by Jehovah so Jehovah heard his request for favor and Jehovah restored Mensassah to Jerusalem to his Kingship and Menassah came to know that Jehovah is the true God.

    Here was a King of Judah and after he did all those horrible things, all he had to do was suffer a little bit and then he prayed to Jehovah and Jehovah forgave him and restored him to his kingship. So, as long as you pray to Jehovah, Jehovah will forgive you evidently, no matter how bad a person you are. But, if you should say that you don’t want to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses any more, that is unforgiveable and that deserves death.

    I would bet you dollars to donuts, this is the account those men told to Peter Sutcliff so that Peter Sutcliff could feel forgiven by Jehovah. But if this guy ever decides that he doesn’t want to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses anymore, (like that would ever happen), he would be shunned.

    The big mistake Hitler made, was not praying to Jehovah before he died. But according to the Society, who knows? Maybe the “anointed” are going to get Hitler into the new earth anyway when they get to heaven and get to talk to Jesus face to face. Since they say Jehovah appointed them over all “His (Jesus’) belongings, any minute they are going to go flying up to Heaven to be with “Him”. Anybody who dies before Armageddon is in line for a resurrection, and Hitler died before Armageddon, so he should be resurrected as one of the unrighteous.

    Once all those guys are gone up to Heaven, then that’s when Jesus is “coming” to start the Great Tribulation. Since one of them is still quite young, either the Great Tribulation is years off or they are just going to go floating up to Heaven one of these days. So, if you don’t believe that one of these days, they will go flying upstairs without being in an airplane, there’s plenty of time yet to build all those new Kingdom Halls.

  • February 10, 2015 at 7:37 pm
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    I am not religious or indoctrinated, it is a con.
    I had one of those dreams last night, very vivid.
    Stood in front of a black gothic church with big wooden doors and a black granite courtyard. Trying to leave the wind blew me backwards. The harder I tried the stronger the wind blew, there was thunder and lightening. Inevitable I opened the door. It was peaceful and there was ambient lighting. The people bearly, if at all, noticed me.
    I guess it’s not about what you believe, it’s about the love that you show.
    If God is about to dismiss Jehovah’s witnesses into Babylon the great, I can understand why. Seeing is believing.

  • February 10, 2015 at 7:48 pm
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    Don’t think that was mentioned on the program.

  • February 10, 2015 at 10:19 pm
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    @Peggy. Your so right how would any sister feel if Peter Sutcliffe was sitting next to them at a Kingdom Hall . HOW MANY KILLERS have FOOLED Trained PSYCHIATRISTS on a Parole Board so they can be Released Only to REOFFEND AGAIN and KILL Some other INNOCENT Person!! It would be so EASY for Yorkshire Ripper Fool UNTRAINED ELDERS into Thinking he was Repentant!!’

  • February 10, 2015 at 10:53 pm
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    @Pickled Brain
    You absolutely, positively, could never, never-ever, fool an elder!
    They have told me what my motives were, what my attitude was all about and even what I was thinking. It was amazing. The insight was incredible!
    Of course, their powers seem to diminish quite rapidly when it comes to predicting the future, having any influence on “worldly people” or even affecting the dealings with their own family members. But that wasn’t important. It was how well they could read me that was truly inspiring!
    So there is no way way The Yorkshire Ripper has pulled a fast one on these mind-reading, intellectual Giants.

  • February 10, 2015 at 10:58 pm
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    @Anonymous.Your so Right The Elders would use MANNASSEH to say LOOK JEHOVAH forgave him so Why not Peter Sutcliffe ??My answer to the Elders would be: 1) JEHOVAH can READ HEARTS! Elders Cannot Read Hearts & Can Be Fooled!
    2) F&D Slave say Now Peter Sutcliffe is a Baptised JW he is more likely to Survive ARMAGEDDON than ANY GOOD PERSON Who is Not a Baptised JW such as DOCTORS Who Save Peoples Lives or People Who Risk Their Lives for CHARITIES all around the World in Different Countries like Save the Children or Doctors who treat EBOLA Victims!!
    WELCOME to The CRAZY & SCREWBALL LOGICAL NEW LIGHT of F&D Slave!

  • February 10, 2015 at 11:36 pm
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    On JW.ORG web site the latest morning discussion from Bethel by Izak Marais is SPOOKY !! He quotes a 1883 Watchtower when a Little Girl answers What is FAITH ? She says ‘ TRUST in GOD & ASK NO QUESTIONS ‘ then goes on to give examples such as Abraham , Noah,Etc
    WELL WE KNOW the UNDERLYING INSIDIOUS MESSAGE is TRUST in 7 MEN of the GB & DO WHAT THEY SAY !!
    EXCUSE ME!! But what about the BEREANS who Examined Scriptures Daily whether these things were do or :
    1 JOHN 4 v 1.2 TEST EVERY INSPIRED EXPRESSION or as the GB like to Play on Words: Spirit Directed Expression

  • February 11, 2015 at 12:41 am
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    Yes, the JWs in their web site can give seemly good explanations why they are moving the headquarters. They always have the right answer. They miss no details, they have all covered. The truth is that they use God and the Bible to excuse their business strategies. If you know that there will be a war soon you’ll never focus on constructing beautiful huge buildings, you are not concerned on turning bethel on touristic attractions.

    These constructions are not designed to strictly promote the preaching work. In their video they highlight how beautiful is the location, the abundance of tools and technology that they use. When the headquarter is complete the GB is going to enjoy the nice view from their beautiful offices. They will enjoy showing the good work they have done when people will travel to see the place.

    I cannot see how genuine Christians can believe Jesus wants this where there are more serious problems in the world. Jesus could also justify the construction of building for preaching the good news. He just had his clothes and focused on helping people spiritually and physically. He did not want to be worshiped like the GB.

    If they were genuine Christians they would not feel superior to other men and would not say that they have special insights from God. Because it is obviously false. We are all the same and no man has the right to humiliate good people or destroy families.

    They are geniuses or creating excuses to create their own ever growing real estate empire. They use cleverly the Bible to justify their doing and convince people that what they do is for their salvation. But in reality is to advance the GB human opinions and materialistic schemes. They are working on creating a solid future for the organization, they know the end is “evidently” not close. You can see that from their actions.

  • February 11, 2015 at 12:48 am
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    @JJ . I Really Like your Style of Reasoning. Succinctly Put my Friend!! We All Know Elders who are SO EXPERTLY TRAINED in UNDERSTANDING the MIND of a PSYCHOPATHIC KILLER like the Yorkshire Ripper & Rose West another Prolific Killer who is now a JW. Silly me to think these Killers might HOPE to FOOL the Parole Board now they are Baptised Christians they are safe to be Released!! Who knows the CUNNING of an EVIL MIND !! If they fool Expert Psychiatrists the they can easily FOOL ELDERS who are Plumbers, Electricians ,Gardeners,Window Cleaners,Builders etc!!!! WELCOME to the MAD & CRAZY World of the F&D Slave

  • February 11, 2015 at 12:54 am
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    @ David . Well put again : ‘ The GB certainly Use GOD & the Bible to JUSTIFY their Business Strategies!!

  • February 11, 2015 at 2:47 am
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    Since I can’t really see any reason for the new headquarters being moved to Warwick from what the Society put on their website, I think it’s more like a David Koresch compound, so these Bethelites are away from the public eye and distractions such as New York people who might catch them on the street and start talking to them or a tourist attraction for people to come and tour and make the Witnesses put even more money in the contribution boxes back home, thinking it’s going to the “world wide work.”

    If I was at one of those meetings with the Governing Body or anybody like that, maybe a circuit overseer, I’d want a straight up answer to why they are moving the headquarters.

    Also, as to my earlier comment about the Governing Body being taken to heaven before the great tribulation breaks out. I don’t believe there will be another governing body member chosen because of the great tribulation supposedly being so “close”.

    Most of the Governing body members are getting up in age and may start keeling over and that would mean that the great tribulation is getting so much “closer”, right? What if Sanderson dies of a heart attack or something like that, gets cancer or whatever? Are they going to chose newer Governing Body members? Or are they all going to take some poison and all kill themselves at one time like other cults have done? They can’t do that because they know that there will be autopsies done so that’s out, and also, once the last of them is dead, that would mean that the Great Tribulation will start. So, they have to keep alive to keep the great tribulation from starting. As long as the great tribulation hasn’t started yet, they can convince the flock that there’s this tremendous need for more and more Kingdom Halls.

    They really have a lot going on with this thing with not getting a new Governing Body member. They can’t bring in a new Governing Body member, because that would mean that the urgency of the preaching work is right out the door. That makes for an excuse for new and better Kingdom Halls.

    To me, the urgency for new kingdom halls and the new headquarters, demonstrates beyond a shadow of a doubt that they don’t even believe in Armageddon in the first place. If they really believed in it, that would be the first priority, not building more and more kingdom halls.

    One time, years ago a sister said to me “if it wasn’t for Armageddon, why would we do all this work? We might as well enjoy our lives. Like the Bible says, eat, live and be merry, because tomorrow we are to die. ” She was exactly right. That is the purpose of the J.W. religion, preaching, WITNESSING. It’s preaching. That is the name of the religion. To take that name away from the front of the Kingdom Halls and replace it with jw.org is replacing the reason for the preaching work, which is the only reason for the religion in the first place.

    Now, all it is is a social club and in order to belong to it, you have to talk like you believe in it and the building of more and more kingdom halls, is telling the Witnesses that it’s just a business plan and that business plan is being implemented by free, gullible labor. It’s evil and if you don’t go along with this “free thinking” organization, you will be shunned as either an apostate or weak and bad association. It’s group think and it works every time for evil cults that are out to fleece the flock.

  • February 11, 2015 at 3:48 am
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    @Anonymous. You are Right Again ; Being on the BRINK & IMPENDING DOOM of ARMAGEDDON isn’t Emphasised as Much Anymore . There is sometimes a TOKEN Mention of it BUT there doesn’t seem ARMAGEDDON is as URGENT as it used to be Back in the 1960s & early 1970s!! There has been NEW LIGHT in a Recent Watchtower that the Remaining ANOINTED who are Alive after the GREAT TRIBULATION starts will be Resurrected to Heaven in between the Great Tribulation & when ARMAGEDDON strikes ,whereas in the past the GB thought a few might survive for maybe a few months or years after Armageddon to welcome The Princes back such as Abraham ,Isaac & Old Prophets!! MORE NEW LIGHT !!!

  • February 11, 2015 at 4:59 am
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    Peter Sutcliffe is a high functioning psychopath. He uses people. He is a deranged individual. He has heard voices from God, which suggests schizophrenia. He is allowed to pursue what he chooses with constrains . He is controlled, fortunately by higher intelligences within Boardmore high security prison and for good reasons. Jehovah’s witnesses are not psychologists. This is another attempt by him to secure the freedom of normality. . It is not normal. It also suggests his need for justification and possibly a repentance/acceptance. Considering his manipulative, narcissistic personality. . I think not.
    Personally I do not think Jehovah’s witnesses should be criticized in this regard as he will never be allowed to secure his freedom.

  • February 11, 2015 at 5:04 am
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    Furthermore, everything Peter Sutcliffe says and does is recorded. Jehovah’s witnesses may prove to be a very useful tool.

  • February 11, 2015 at 5:15 am
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    If Jehovah’s witnesses, regardless of their beliefs, can lead Peter Sutcliffe to a genuine acceptance and realization of his crimes, so be it.

  • February 11, 2015 at 5:32 am
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    Love is all you need.

  • February 11, 2015 at 7:03 am
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    @Pickled brain. All this time I had thought that when the so-called anointed got their final sealing, it meant when they had died faithful their entire life and were raised to heaven so I typed in “final sealing” into the Watchtower online library and came to a whole new understanding of what that means. I wonder how many Witnesses really know what it means or was I in the dark all this time?

    In the questions from readers in the 2007 Watchtower January 1st issue pages 30-31, it talks about there being 2 sealings, an initial sealing when they receiving their anointing from Jesus and then the final sealing, which I had thought meant when they died and went to heaven but it doesn’t mean that at all.

    The final sealing isn’t at their death, that is for those still alive on earth and will live through the initial start of the Great Tribulation. Those still alive then, before the Great Tribulation breaks out will have received their final sealing from Jehovah even though they haven’t died yet, BEFORE the great tribulation breaks out.

    So, basically what the Watchtower is saying then is that these people can’t sin anymore once they have received their final sealing and then the Great Tribulation breaks out and they will eventually die but when they die, then they will be taken to heaven immediately, but not bodily of course, since blood and flesh can’t go to heaven. So, their bodies will be dead but something (what?, their memory? Reasoning book doesn’t explain anything that makes sense under soul or spirit) goes to heaven to be with Jesus. Christendom’s churches preach that their bodies will be taken to heaven. That is how they understand resurrection, not reincarnation which the Watchtower preaches.

    The Watchtower makes it clear that the 4 winds of the Great Tribulation are being held back until the “final sealing” of the anointed on earth. This is from the March 15, 2015 pages 12-16 Watchtower that I printed off of of the jw online library, paragraph 11:

    “So, then, before the great tribulation starts, all the faithful anointed on earth will have received their final sealing. (Rev. 7:1-4) From then on, their calling is sure. But think about the years before the tribulation begins. What would happen to the anointed ones who failed to remain watchful, who lost their integrity? They would lose their heavenly reward. Obviously, they would receive no final sealing prior to the start of the tribulation. By that time, other faithful ones would be anointed.”

    I found this interesting in the simplified edition of the July 15, 2013 paragraph 2, page 9 Watchtower which is not in the regular study edition: “The events in this illustration show how and when Jesus would gather out of mankind the entire group of anointed Christians who will rule with him in his Kingdom. As a group, they are the wheat class, that is, they are the ones represented by the wheat.”

    I don’t remember ever seeing that the wheat is representing the anointed. That is new to me and it was left out of the regular study edition.

    The fact that the great tribulation is being held off until the final sealing of the anointed, tells me that the Governing Body members who wear pinky rings may very well consider themselves as already having been sealed. Pinky rings, according to Wikipedia, started out as “signet” rings. If my hunch is correct, then these guys figure they can’t sin anymore and have received their final sealing from Jehovah???? If they haven’t received that final sealing yet, that means that Jesus hasn’t been convinced of their integrity yet either.

    My question is: How would we know when these guys die off if they went to heaven? Wouldn’t it be invisible to human eyes? Their bodies would still be here on the earth.

    It’s about as clear as mud to me.

  • February 11, 2015 at 7:33 am
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    Actually what that 2013 Watchtower tells me is that as long as there are Witnesses claiming to be of the anointed, the Watchtower can milk this cow forever.

  • February 11, 2015 at 8:17 am
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    @Anonymous. I Think you are Right about AS CLEAR as MUD about SUMS it UP Really . The More NEW LIGHT we get the MORE CONFUSED I AM!’!!

  • February 11, 2015 at 8:24 am
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    @Gary. Your comment ‘Love is all you need’ in regard to Peter Sutcliffe !! Tell that to the Mums & Dads, Brothers& Sisters& Children of the 13 WOMEN he HACKED to DEATH with SCREWDRIVERS,HAMMERS & KNIVES! Pity the GB can’t be so FORGIVING of DISFELLOWSHIPPED Ones!!

  • February 11, 2015 at 9:48 am
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    @Gary. To be Fair to you Gary your FIRST comment of the Four you made was very well Phrased & I must say was very well Constructed and that First comment on Peter Sutcliffe I totally agree with of yours!!! Take Care & look forward to hearing more like it!!

  • February 11, 2015 at 10:49 am
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    The worst think a human can do to him self. Is to be baptize by jehovah witnesses.

  • February 11, 2015 at 11:03 am
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    @rikos . I think your short but accurate comment Should be The ‘2016 YEARTEXT ‘Displayed in Every Kingdom Hall & at Every Meeting!!!

  • February 11, 2015 at 2:56 pm
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    Ok, so the LDC video was taken down. Post it on Ru-Tube next time!!!

    The Russians don’t give a flying ____about the Watchtower’s copyright claims.

  • February 11, 2015 at 3:09 pm
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    I dont know why it matters what he “the ripper” does if he is in prison for the rest of his life. I dont understand how the news of his conversion negativly reflects on Jehovahs Witnesses. If he decided to be a Buddhist would that negatively reflect on all Buddhists?. Some people need a system of boundries (even if delusional) because they can not control themselves.

    • February 11, 2015 at 3:56 pm
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      @sam, when I was a JW (25 years ago) one of my territories was a prison. I sat across people that smelled like garbage and acted like garbage but I made every effort to recover one of “God’s little sheep”. I don’t think that it necessarily reflects badly on the JWs that a criminal became a witness. Most Christians would welcome someone “finding Jesus”.

      But, what I do think should reflect badly on the JWs is the amount of effort they made to bring this person into the fold while they shun their friends and relatives. And, it is not without irony that they are willing to go through the trouble to step into a prison to study with this guy but won’t show up to court on lawsuits when summoned to testify. Know what I mean?

  • February 11, 2015 at 3:45 pm
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    @Sam. How Can You Say it doesn’t matter whether Yorkshire Ripper is a Baptised JEHOVAHS Witness???Now Peter Sutcliffe can Associate Freely if Ever he is Released on Parole with other Witnesses at the Meetings,Social Gatherings, and be assigned to work with any Sister at a Field Service Group if no-one has a Partner!!
    Do you Realise what most INTELLIGENT people in the World & Even in the Truth ? Those Elders that went through the Questions with him before Baptism have been Hoodwinked !!! Our Religion is Attracting all the NUTTERS!’ Yorkshire Ripper,Rose West, Michael Jackson(who dangled a baby out of High Rise Window& Whose Face was ever changing to try & be White) & composed The MOST SPIRITUAL Video Ever Featuring ZOMBIES? (David Splane should have Starred in it. & Then there is that Paragon of VIRTUE ‘ PRINCE’; The Williams Sisters… Who mentioned FAME & MATERIALISM & SWEARING at Chinese LinesWomen at U.S. Open !!

  • February 11, 2015 at 5:02 pm
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    @Sam, since Peter Sutcliffe is over in England and not in the United States where I am, his being baptized as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses doesn’t affect me like it would those who had been directly affected by him.

    On time years ago, my oldest daughter was very upset because of a death in our congregation and she didn’t see the grief that she thought the death deserved. To her, it seemed that people weren’t that caring. It’s like when a man gets to be 95 years old, there’s usually not a lot of tears when that person dies but it makes a huge difference if your own grandpa. But when a young child dies unexpectedly, we are very much affected by it, even if the child isn’t our own. A little over a year ago, there was a mass shooting in this country when a crazy kid went into a school and shot and killed over 20 little 6 year old kids and their teachers. One of the kids was a twin. They showed pictures of that little twin for weeks. I have twin 5 year old grandsons and I can’t even imagine the pain that I’d suffer if one of them was killed and I kept imagining what it would be like if I lost one of my grand babies. We put ourselves in the place of those parents when we see their pictures and we can relate. That is what we have to do in cases like with Peter Sutcliffe. We have to put ourselves in the place of the victim’s families and feel what they feel.

    What those loved ones of the victims are feeling is that some Jehovah’s Witnesses came along and told that guy that Jesus Christ’s sacrifice paid for his sins as long as he is repentant. There is no way the Witnesses would have baptized him, unless he was told that Jesus’ sacrifice made that possible for him. Yes, he is probably repentant and yes that’s nice for him to feel forgiven of his sins.

    But if that was one of my loved ones, who he murdered, I’d be very angry to have somebody come along and say that Jesus forgave that guy of the sin of killing my loved one. It should be up to me to decide whether or not he is to be forgiven, not Jesus and not some Jehovah’s Witnesses. Who gave Jesus or the Witnesses the right to forgive that man of killing my daughter?

    The moronic thinking of Jehovah’s Witnesses is that they think that in order to live in the new world, a person has to be baptized and these men took it upon themselves to decide that for Jehovah. I really don’t care if they wanted to stick the guy in a tub and baptize him as long as it’s quiet just so the guy can die in peace and quiet so the families of the victims don’t find out about it. Who cares if he gets resurrected or not? That would be up to Jehovah (if there really is a God) and not up to men anyway.

    If there really is a God and if that God can read hearts, He could read the heart of a person whether or not they have taken a bath with their head under the water. The thinking that a person has to have his body covered with water in order to get into the new world is simply idiotic and not giving their God much credit.

    So, go ahead and tub up as many people in those prisons as they want to as long as he isn’t living next door to me when or if he gets out and don’t expect me to invite him to babysit my grand kids.

    When it comes to converts, the best place to go to is people in prisons. They can’t slam the door on a Witness preacher and probably welcomes the company and will say and do anything to keep that company coming back and it adds to the numbers for the next year’s yearbook numbers. Also, there’s been lots of people who “get religion” when they are in prison. It helps them get out of prison faster if they are convincing to the parole board.

    The more prisoners baptized, the more need for more kingdom halls, right??? In our country, we have millions to chose from.

  • February 11, 2015 at 5:44 pm
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    @Sam, I am only being cavalier about serial killers being baptized as long as they DON’T GET OUT OF PRISON EVER. If somebody gets put in prison for smoking pot, then I don’t really care that much if they get out. In the United States here, we have had many, many people who have killed more than once and if they get “religion”, lots of time, the prisons will let these people out of prison, only to kill again. It’s crazy scarey.

  • February 11, 2015 at 9:02 pm
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    Fact is the elders can be the most corrupt supported by the Governingeneral body “”future kings/angels””lol
    I always view their watchtower to see what snake lies they put.
    Next week’s is crazy stupid.. they are making themselves out to be The Savior claiming that if you don’t stick to them then “is it reasonable that you’d be saved”. So basically every humans life depends on these hypocrits that are worldly themselves..
    Paragraph 17 they use the example of Jesus when he was 12 and went to a religious gathering.,, they failed to mention that the phrarisees were rejected because of their ways..Jesus had to take off a lot because of their corruption.. elders can’t read hearts and are hypocrite and what the very life of all humans depends on our sticking to them.

  • February 12, 2015 at 3:52 am
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    I could be mistaken but i have never heard of a serial killer getting paroled, so to say that one day peter sutcliffe will be out knocking on peoples doors is fantasy.

  • February 12, 2015 at 5:04 am
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    @Sam. You have a VERY WEAK ARGUMENT & you obviously don’t do your RESEARCH before you make comments especially when you are ARGUING about a SERIAL KILLER who is a BAPTISED JW!! Well Here is your Answer about ‘You know no Serial Killers Released on Parole’ The List is Endless but Here is a Few!!!
    1) Mary Bell
    2)Arnfinn Nessett
    3)Nikita Fouganthine
    4)Karla Homolka
    5)Pedro Lopez
    I could go on ,But the Problem with Serial Killers being put in Psychiatric Institutions Rather than Jail is Once the Doctors say he is cured then they can be put up for Parole if they think he is no longer a Danger to the Public!

  • February 12, 2015 at 5:13 am
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    @Sam. So your comment it is a FANTASY Peter Sutcliffe will be Knocking on Doors maybe a Horrible NIGHTMARE !! But I Dearly hope you are Right. I Wish the 15 Years those Elders spent studying with Peter Sutcliffe could have been better spent helping many more deserving ones like showing love to unjustly Disfellowshipped ones!!!& maybe THEIR OWN CHILDREN !! I know 13 Elders children who have gone out of the Truth!! The biggest complaint from these children is We NEVER SAW OUR DAD who was too busy with congregational or Field Service activities!!

  • February 12, 2015 at 6:09 am
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    @StrongHaiku. Really Enjoyed your last comment especially the second paragraph . Succinctly Put & to the Point!!

    • February 12, 2015 at 9:49 am
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      Thank you for the kind words. I have to say I had some interesting experiences there. Some inmates where just bored/stir-crazy and wanted any excuse to get out of their cells for a while. Some wanted absolution and took no responsibility. “I’m no criminal…” they would say as I stared at their mile-long rap sheet. “Sure, you’re just like Peter imprisoned for your faith…” But some were just people that desperately needed and deserved some compassion and attention. The prison system in the U.S. is really messed up… What else is new?

  • February 12, 2015 at 10:45 am
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    Peter Sutcliffe THOUGHT HE WAS on a MISSION from GOD when He SLAUGHTERED these 13 WOMEN & 7 Others he tried the same way !! Those 7 still alive will Have NIGHTMARES & LIVES RUINED Until THEY DIE!! Oh Now Dear Old PETER has Repented & now is A BAPTISED JW Lets Just Give Him A ROUND of APPLAUSE When HE is ANNOUNCED as a NEW PUBLISHER!!! Ohh BOG OFF !! Give me 10 LARGE STONES & I’ll STONE HIM to DEATH like in the Good Old Days of the MOSAIC LAW which our Loving God JEHOVAH Created!!!

  • February 12, 2015 at 11:01 am
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    So the Bible God could not find it in his heart to forgive a man for
    collecting wood on the sabbath,,but had him brutally put to death
    Num 15, 32-36. Yet he can pardon a sadistic serial killer,

    How do you begin to make sense of this schizoid thinking? easily !
    become a J,W,

    The Prodigal Son went off the rails for a while and led a dissolute life,
    but I don’t think he was 13 times a murderer.

  • February 12, 2015 at 11:01 am
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    @Anonymous. Just LOVE your Comment about Peter Sutcliffe !! Made me Laugh the bit about you care how many are PUT in a TUB to be called baptised JW . Do we NEED to do this Surely Jehovah can read Hearts! & the bit you wrote about how do the Relatives of these ones feel who lost loved ones??? Oh Ballyho so Jesus & all the JWs now forgive just because he has been dunked under some water!! & would and NOW he is Saved because he is Baptised??? Hmmm Give me the Good Old Mosaic Law any day which is JEHOVAHs Provision !! EYE for EYE ! TOOTH for TOOTH ! MALE GENITALS for MALE GENITALS !! Hallelujah !! Praise the Lord !!

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