The story of young Ashya King has taken a dramatic twist in the last 24 hours as it has emerged that the motives for his Jehovah’s Witness parents removing him from hospital were NOT religious as initially suspected by some (myself included).
Last night Brett King, Ashya’s father, made an emotional appearance in a YouTube video claiming he fled the UK with his son because doctors refused to consider proton beam therapy. King said he was afraid Ashya’s doctors would obtain a court order blocking him from seeing his son if he objected.
The Hampshire police, who initiated a European-wide arrest warrant that eventually succeeded in Ashya’s parents being arrested in Spain on suspicion of neglect, have come under heavy criticism in the UK. Ashya’s grandmother, Patricia King, has labelled their actions in hunting down her son and daughter-in-law as “disgraceful.”
“I think they (the police) have been absolutely disgraceful … I have nothing but condemnation for them,” she said.
“To be told that that’s it, that you can’t do any more for the child, of course Brett took alternative measures,” she said.
“Other people have done it (sought proton beam therapy), so why have they gone after my son like this?
“They’ve made him out to be a criminal.”
Meanwhile, another parent of a brain tumor victim has spoken of her own struggle in securing proton beam treatment for her son.
“We were told the same thing, that Alex’s tumour wasn’t suitable for proton therapy by the NHS here in this country,” said Ros Barnes, whose son eventually had beam therapy treatment in the US.
“The alternative here was radiotherapy, and he was only four years old at the time it would have caused extreme brain damage and probably wouldn’t have worked either. So yes, I would have done the same as this family.”
An apology
I would like to take this opportunity to apologize for assuming that Ashya’s parents’ behavior was religiously motivated. Though, as a parent, I cannot condone taking a critically ill child out of hospital and on a 1,000+ mile car journey, as more information comes to light I can certainly sympathize with the King family’s horrendous predicament. I hope above all that Ashya will receive the treatment he needs, whatever (and wherever) that may prove to be.
Further reading…
Please pay careful attention Cedars that the WT GB may not place one of their domestic on your website to irritate you, in such a way that they could legally require the permanent closure of JW-Survey.
GB is not feeling safe now with the new liberty offered by internet. I am sure you already take care to guard against all eventualities
Cedars, this proves to me that you are ‘the bigger person’ in that you will admit to a mistake, owe up to it, and set the record strait. This is in much contrast to the GB that has to claim that they have ‘divine inspiration’ or ‘new light’ instead of admitting that they have made a mistake.
For the boy and his family, I hope that he can get the best treatment in time to save his life. This is an example of how ‘red tape’ can kill you in a medical system.
The police, and local authorities in Britain, have come
In for a lot of “flak”. Due to claims of not acting quickly
enough, in cases of child neglect.
In view of this, one can readily understand the concern
of the doctor’s, when a critically sick child disappears
from their care, taken by the parents, who possessed
no medical training.
The actions of the Police too can be readily understood.
A senior Police officer being questioned by the Media,
said. “I would sooner be standing here, facing questions
of over reaction, rather than being faced with a tragedy
and being accused of doing nothing.”
Koala boy, Here’s a great opportunity for the Org, to
prove, “your claim” regarding it’s generosity, by paying
for Ashya’s Proton Beam treatment.
But I fear it won’t happen. It would set an expensive
precedent.
I had assumed that it was the blood issue they were running from too. It all too typical. Fortunately john as well as I can admit when we are wrong and apologize. This worlds more than anyone will ever get from watchtower on a plethora of issues.
Excuse me Ted but the Kings already have an offer from the Czech proton clinic to give Aysha treatment. Even the British prime minister hopes the child will get the best treatment whether in England or overseas. And at least the King family do have a home in Spain and England. There are a million displaced Ukrainians without home or work. Those that escaped to Russia [814,000] are given 3 days shelter near the border and then a bus ticket to a city somewhere else in Russia. The majority of the witnesses sought sanctuary in Ukraine and there is huge effort to accommodate, feed and clothe them by both the Governing Body and local witnesses. My wife is an eye witness to this. She even went to another city just to check herself what was being done. The refugees were very grateful for everyone’s help. Yes I know that Catholics and Orthodox will be helping their folk too. So they should but I can only comment on what I have been told by my wife as an eyewitness to what our Organization is doing. This tragedy with Ukraine or the King family isn’t the time to comment on blood issues, child baptism, 1975, paedophiles, ect.
Please show a little compassion for those in Ukraine whether JW’s or not. I have many friends there who are not witnesses and still write to me after 7 years of absence. I care for their situation as well as my brothers and sisters that are suffering too.
About the matter of setting a ‘Expensive Precedent”. I know personally while I was living in Ukraine that the local branch office paid for “Ringers Lactate” which is very expensive in Ukraine for a brother in hospital in Central Ukraine. It was on TV. So Ted there are many acts of financial kindness that the Organization does that go unreported. I have given you already 10,001 examples. Plus they are buying materials NOW to rebuild those that had homes damaged when the war is over. I can’t see the Government in Ukraine doing that for its citizens. I hope they do but after living there for years I doubt it. Maybe the Orthodox and Catholics will help rebuild their parishioners’ homes but again I wouldn’t bet money on it if I was a gambler. But our Organization is going to do it for their members. I hope that this dispels the ‘expensive precedent’ propaganda. In the eyes of many informed people there is enormous amount of ‘proof’ that we care for others in a practical ways. PS To others who made comments. I am merely presenting facts and reporting them. I don’t like paedophiles witness or non witness. I hope they all are punished. I disagree with child baptisms myself and wouldn’t allow my son to be baptised until after 16. However I believe that worldly people who read this website are getting an imbalanced view and I am here to defend when I think some comment is completely false. As above what Ted said on expensive precedent. The comment and some others are based on ignorance and not fact. BTW I can make a new email in 5 minutes so I am not “jumping through hoops”. The matter is that I have lived in 5 different countries and have been to 40 countries so my family has a different perspective of Jehovah’s Witnesses than most others on this site. We have seen more than most of you have. That’s it. I also look at this website to catch up on the news as I look at JWnews and other non GB websites that report what’s happening around the world. I am not thin-skinned nor should anyone here be so sensitive that my factual reports upset them so much. I don’t get upset so why should you. I keep my rhetoric polite as should everyone else. Have a nice day tearing this post apart. :o)
Ted I do agree that the Police had no choice but to do what they did. I don’t think they should be criticised about it either. It’s the medical establishment who are guilty when many of the doctors only see “cut, burn and radiate” their patients as the answer. There are sometimes alternatives and parents should be allowed to explore them. They have the best interest of their children.
Hi Koalaboy. It seems you have lots of money to be able to travel like you do? Did you go to college or does your job pay you that well from just a high school education? Did you come into the “truth” after you went to college?”
Most of us that were in the “truth” from early on, were made to look “materialistic” if we went to college and a bad example to the flock and weak so very few JW’s are able to travel like you do. If I had the money to travel all over the world like you do, then I might believe what you are saying about how charitable the Society is but then again, when did any of those who distribute the money that was given to them from hard working poor JW’s actually lift a finger, other than signing the papers where that hard earned money is to go, to earn that money? How do they live? Do they live like the poor Bethelites who are nothing but slave labor who are the ones doing the work producing the literature? Do they have to wash windows to earn that money in the winter time and have no health insurance that are the ones actually donating that money? Are they the ones donating their time and energy, rebuilding those homes for no pay at all? All they do is distribute the money. That’s easy and they do have to send some of that money. With the stock pile of money the Society is sitting on, they should have plenty of money to help the brothers and sisters with some of it.
Why does the Society have so many buildings in New York? Maybe they invest their extra funds into real estate? We have no idea how much they take in and how much they use for the brothers and sisters in need. According to what I have read, the Watchtower is one of the top 40 money makers in New York with an annual “take” of close to a billion dollars and yet they will never release to the public how much they take in and where the money goes. I, as well as many other would like to see but we never will. All we can do is take the word of somebody like you where it goes.
As far as people who aren’t JW’s looking at the web site and getting the wrong impression. I am hoping with all my heart, that they do get the wrong impression of the Society. I want them to read these comments and realize what a scam the “religion” of the Watchtower really is. If they want to have a close relationship with God, they had better look elsewhere, not the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society. Can you have a close relationship with a dictionary? Having Bible studies in the Watchtower is only to prove doctrines. You don’t look up scriptures for any other reason than to prove doctrines the same as looking up meanings in a dictionary.
You stand up for the Society only for what you see it doing as far as helping refugees. What about all the lies they tell to us? What about trying to tell everybody that they are the sole channel from God and they are not the sole channel from God? They try and take the place of God and you are all falling for it. Charity means nothing if it’s coming from Satan. Even Satan knows tricks like that and how good they work. Didn’t Jesus even say “and perform many powerful works in my name and yet then I will confess to them: I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”
Anonymous pertinently said to Koalaboy regarding those who distribute the money: “Do they live like the poor Bethelites who are nothing but slave labor who are the ones doing the work producing the literature?”
The title of the video called “Caleb & Sophia Visit Bethel” should be changed into “Caleb & Sophia Visit the House of Slavery”. All these faked and forced smiles in this video, even the one of Anthony Morris with both the new young idols standing so close to him ( min. 00:16), cannot hide the big hypocrisy of the JW.org religious corporation.
I had the opportunity to stay as a guest three days in a Bethel in Asia. I know what I am talking about.
So nice now to be able to use internet to say freely what we have on the heart.
koalaboy,
Thank you for your comment.
Do you remember the illustration Jesus used about whitewashed graves? That is the WTBTS summed up.
I am pleased that this multi-billion dollar, “Spirit-Directed” organisation is helping folks in Ukraine.
I only wish that they would copy Jesus and give ALL of those multiple billions to good causes, instead of spending a large sum on expensive lawyers to defend the ongoing scandal of child abuse cover ups.
I only wish that they would copy Jesus’ compassion for ALL, instead of writing inaccurate and cruel articles about treating disfellowshipped ones as if they have been killed by your God, and instructing you to not mourn them.
The WTBTS is a whitewashed grave.
I am very glad to read that you are as appalled by the child abuse issues in your religion. Thank you for your support of our goal to expose and eradicate this disgusting crime from the midst of your religion.
So, what are YOU doing about the child abuse, koalaboy?
What are YOU doing about the domestic abuse cover ups, koalaboy?
What are YOU doing about the shunning in your religion, koalaboy?
The list goes on, I think you get the picture.
You continually post about how your religion is not as bad as we nasty, demon-dining apostates state. You are whitewashing the gravestone that is the WTBTS.
If you are truly a Christian, then you are compelled to help the abused and the shunned.
Christianity is a far higher standard than that preached by your religion, koalaboy.
I have weighed the Governing Body in the scales and I have found them wanting.
They are wanting in compassion, they are wanting in truth, they are wanting in humility and, sadly, the list goes on and on.
By all means, continue to post here, despite being banned. I think that dialogue between us and the WTBTS is vital to any long term solutions.
But please, don’t try to whitewash the grave that is your Governing Body. It will not work.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Just a quick reply before I go to bed. I pioneered 10 years. I then worked 27 years as a hard construction landscaper getting up at 5am,working 12 hours EVERY DAY and on meeting nights I still went to the meeting exhausted but glad to be there. Yes I have travelled a lot. My son has been to 20 countries by the time he was 12. Everyone commends us on what a fine young man he has grown into. I worked with my bare hands the hard way. Concreting. Rock wall construction, ect Get the idea? None of it came easy. I know what it’s like to be disfellowshipped twice for a total of 4 years. I know what it’s like to be shunned as you say. I speak from experience. I report the facts what I or my wife have seen, not generalizations or suppositions.
I am enraged at child abuse and it is EVERYWHERE! Not just your local congregation. Atheists, agnostics, Catholics, Muslim are all guilty. It is an epidemic. If anyone covers it up then I hope they suffer for it at Armageddon. I am going to bed. Sweet dreams everyone.
I forgot I only went to grade 10. I know quite a few pioneers who after they finished pioneering went on to have good careers and many with their own businesses. One sold his company for tens of millions. But in general those that I know did pretty good. Of course some of you will know others that didn’t do so good. I am just reporting what I have seen. Is that a crime? I don’t think so. It’s nice that Cedars has let me stay on and reply to some of your comments. I appreciate it. As we say here in Australia.. Thanks mate. :o) BTW I am not the enemy. I try to be calm in my posts even if I completely disagree with you. It’s your right to express your feelings as long as it is done with good manners. Now I am going to bed. Goodnight.
I am seeing here that you koala boy, have had a positive experience being one of Jws. and no one would want to take those away from you, life is short and people deserve to be happy. If you are happy,this is your blessing because maybe this is the way of your reward.this is what you have come to be seen as, a helpful person who goes out of his way for others, and you are right to do so, and set a good example for your child. it is because you love all people you are as such rewarded. it has little to do with being a member of the wt org, does it. wouldn’t you still do these things apart from being a jw? but there are others who do have a legitimate reason to know what they know and feel what they feel. unfortunately all is not well in the world in which we live, as you have clearly seen. instead of working tirelessly going from door to door wasting gas and time knocking on empty houses, making maybe one convert in a lifetime, just think how much more could be accomplished if that same time was spent helping people out with real needs on a daily basis. this does not happen over all, especially here in the US. God does not forget all the good we have done regardless of whether we claim to be of a religious faith or not. this is how we express faith, by actually doing good works of helping people, even if its just those in our family, if that is all we can do. it is not the preaching work of the jws that is what is making the most impact, it is the doing of good works for all people that makes a good reputation. God has placed governments here , and all the good that the governments do are for our benefit. so this good is rewarded. [ but then we have a system that over reacts to everything making arrests first, without doing the proper amount of investigation, and this is where people get irate] for yourself, you see the results of being active in really helping people out,
people remember what we do, not always what we say, and as a whole, however, the wt org does not have a reputation of being ‘charitable’. it may boast in its yearbooks and its literature, and at the conventions, and those jws who are fed these constant pep talks may think they are part of some great loving org, but ask anyone not a jw, what jws are known for and it will not be for being there when you need them. [Im a perfect example of this neglect.] it will only be ‘those people who go to your door and push magazines’. no mention of Jesus, or the bible, no mention of helping out those in need, or volunteering, or showing up at community meetings, or anything related to being seen and involved for the common good. [unless they get something in return] and THAT is the problem. they want their left hand to know what the right is doing. it is a Christian, who is of Christs congregation, who has the personal responsibility , apart from any of mans organizations, for they all are ‘organized’ against Gods invisible spiritual kingdom.
what most is the main gripe of any x, or current dissatisfied, jw is that the way the society in new york think they have the right to make the claim that God approves of them and no one else, its a ridiculous claim. for any professed religion. anyone who makes rules and claim they are Gods is presumptuous. not to mention, to use the societies new favorite word, brazen. these very faulty ‘traditions’ [for that is what the word tradition means in the bible, religious rules of men] have led people into a sort of bondage. to expect to have followers of these teachings, and then told to obey [new word as well,used dozens of times in the nov wt] these rules and if you don’t conform, to be shunned as dead, is no less what the pharisees in Jesus day did. God could not have possibly placed men in a position to dictate to his creation how to worship him, its not for men to decide if our worship is good enough.
By defending men and their teachings, Id think we would be disowning Christ. so far these emotionally manipulative means they use, fear, anxiety, are used to bring persons into their control. what would happen if the society were to completely dissolve , leaving each congregation on its own , as an individual personage[?], you’d be responsible for your own good works, keeping alive through your own support, not needing to pay for and maintain buildings, recording everyone’s comings and goings, but enjoyably meeting once a week in borrowed facilities or someones home, or even backyard. simply discussing the bible or what needs to be done for whoever. instead of using donations to help those in need, [not to support the printing of books full of the limited reasoning of men.]
this is how the early congregations were , individual small meetings in homes. no piles of books, and no preaching door to door. they did not even have bibles back then, and couldn’t even read and write. so how do you think they worshiped? the simple statement, I am a christian, and acting like one, is what has spread this ‘Good news’. by all who claim it.
The past year and a half, I have learned more about the bible that the whole 35 years i have been a jw, and have always known of the imperfections of the org from the time i was small child, and now that i can see clearly, my personal spiritual worship to God is my own, it does not belong to anyone to lead me to a visible earthly god in order to worship. its simple, if we choose to not follow a certain teaching we should be free to do so without having our friends and families held prisoner from us. its not scriptural and its unloving.
Koalaboy, do you want a gold medal for all of that? Are you still following that dangling carrot that the GB holds in front of you that you must ‘earn’ according to their standards and theology? It still doesn’t solve the fact that you and many others like you are sadly beholden to a religion that ensnares and enslaves people for its own well being. The GB continues to make promises that they cannot fulfill, and the GB continues to keep everyone frightened and on edge about impending doom. I don’t want to be mean about this, but that’s exactly how they keep you and many others like you enslaved to where you willingly give all of your life to a false religion. I have had people say, “Well, I feel sorry for you.” NO! I feel sorry for them, because I am free and they are enslaved!!! It is a wonderful thing to be free of mind and spirit! You don’t have to ‘earn’ anything at all.
koala boy.
My “Expensive Precedent” comment, was based on the knowledge
of the tight fisted way the Org, operates. To illustrate.
An ex NewYork Bethel brother joined our congregation,(He had married
a local sister.) He told of being mugged, and of having no money. To
hand over. He explained to the mugger , where he worked and how
much he was paid.
The mugger was astonished at the paltry amount, and said he made
more than that in a night, he then took out a bill and put it into the
brothers coat pocket.
You say many brothers in the Ukraine are being helped, that’s good.
But I can’t help contrasting this with the thousand’s of lives that have
been blighted waiting on false expectations, that they were told
were “God’s promises”.
Not the time to bring up 1975 you say, but this has badly affected my
family to this very day. For 8 years, in almost every W,T, it was drilled
home, in the most positive terms, that full time preaching, was the only
worthwhile career. And indeed if we could pioneer but did not, we
could be blood guilty.
I encouraged my son to pioneer straight from school, consequently
he grew up without a trade, or qualifications. My son will be 60 this
year and has struggled to find worthwhile employment, and is now
reliant on casual work.
Not the time to mention blood you say. Now all of us have nothing
but pity for little Ashya, But what about the untold numbers of
children that have unnecessarily died, because of one man’s
uninspired and “Proven” faulty interpretations of the Bible.
Yourself and your wife are obviously caring people, And I hope
the scales will be removed from your eyes, Acts 9/18, and that
you will see this organisation for what it truly is.
A destructive cult, that has brought hurt and tragedy to thousands
of trusting people.
koala boy,
Your argument that paedophilia is present in all of society is correct. However, very few organisations have such a disgusting child protection policy as your religion has.
I am active in politics and I am lobbying the government to bring in mandatory reporting of reports of child abuse. This will help ALL victims of child abuse, not just those dear souls so harmed in the WTBTS.
Are you an Elder, koala boy? If you are, then you are potentially part of the problem. If you are not, why don’t you download the “Shepherding the Flock of God” secret elders book and look at your religion’s child protection policy?
I want you to consider child abuse cover ups and other crimes in line with this verse:
James 2:15 and 16.
These victims are suffering far more than an empty stomach. And yet your religion fails to protect these victims and fails to get justice for them from the “superior authorities”
There are many, many bible verses I could quote that state that YOU have the responsibility to set this right.
I am doing all I can in my circumstances to try to get this appalling situation corrected and the victims acknowledged and compensated. Can you say the same, koalaboy?
You seem to me to be a decent and kind man. Your wife is very kind and loving to be parted from you and helping the JWs of Ukraine and others.
Please, do not be misled by the WTBTS. They are a whitewashed grave and they are heading to serious legal cases against them. The human rights violations that they perpetrate will be challenged in Courts around the world.
Koalaboy, please help us to help those poor little children and young people that have been so sorely abused by the cruel and unChristian child protection policy in the WTBTS.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
It’s about time that the GB start helping people with all the billions of dollars they collected over the years selling literature around the world. They should also help people who did not go to college because the GB coerced them not to go since Armageddon was imminent in their life time. So, since these people who listened to them have no jobs and no health insurance, they should really help them out. I never listened to the GB and so today, I have a Bachelor’s, a Master’s and a Doctorate and teach at two colleges in the USA.
Dr. Cecil Scott
The father said: “Hopefully now I can see our son. We can be together . We can show love to him because without that there is no purpose to life.”
Hmm suppose the boy is baptised at 12 or so. And suppose he later falls in love with a ‘worldly’ girlfriend… Let’s remind the father then there is no purpose to life without love….
Forgot the link for the quote, here it is:
http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/sep/03/ashya-kings-parents-told-southampton-hospital-take-son-abroad
A short quiz: which is more likely: a) a JW leaves hospital against medical advice over blood, or b) a JW leaves hospital against medical advice for some other reason.
If nothing else, this episode shows many (if not most) people will answer a) when the true answer is b). b) is the right answer simply because there are many more reasons for anyone to leave hospital against medical advice than ‘the blood issue’ (ie: all the reasons non-JWs leave hospital against medical advice apply to JWs too).
The technical term for this is conjunction fallacy and it is a very, very common error.
Max, your logic is flawed; this is not a conjunction fallacy. (a) is not a subset of (b), due to the use of the word “other” in “some other reason”. I think the odds for (a) are greater than (b), but that’s a gut feeling.
Dr. Scott we don’t sell any literature. I get a donation about once a year. I also watch a lot of news especially from USA and it seems that there are millions of well educated folks also out of work through no fault of their own. One story recently was of those out of work and also owing the Universities/ governments a lot of money for their tuition studies.
Gareth the father is thinking of his son’s life in the next 4 months not when he is a teenager.
Searcher: Governments make promises all the time and everybody knows that they will break them but they still go out and vote for them. Who hasn’t broken a promise? Tell me. Have you kept every promise you made in your life? I don’t feel frightened by anybody other than my wife. :o) And I am not enslaved at all. I do everything willingly. The only Gold medal I want is one filled with chocolate so I can eat it. :o)
No Excelsior I am not an elder or a MS nor a pioneer but my son is a pioneer overseas which we support financially as well. There have been cover-ups for decades, if not centuries with the vast majority of organizations and sick individuals. Why else is there all these Inquiries, Royal commissions ect?
I agree completely about mandatory reporting. For everyone. Sooner the better. I have seen the Shepherding book and even read the transcript when the Commission in Victoria, Australia interviewed the Branch Coordinator about JW child abuse policies. I am very well informed. No organization is perfect. Now as soon as I hear there is a paedophile in our congregation then I will let you know about it. What else do you want me to do? I am busy enough helping others in practical ways and looking after my own family. I have no intention of making a crusade to uproot every known paedophile on the planet in or out of our religion.
You are entitled to your opinion of JW’s and I am entitled to my opinion. Even with all that I have read on this site I will not change and will continue to support the only known organization which actually worships and preaches about Jehovah God on an amazing scale. If you read the Bible when Jehovah had direct contact with people, there were still some atrocities and people were affected by others conduct. Fair? No but nothing I can do about it then or now. I like to live life with a positive view of most people in and out of our organization.
It seems that many of you are confident that JW’s are going to fall over one of these days. Well you will be waiting a long time as I can tell you ‘it just aint gonna happen”. It did not happen under the Third Reich neither will it happen in the 21st Century. It didn’t happen under Stalin and neither will it happen under Putin or anybody else. We are a very determined people and the vast majority of witnesses enjoy the lifestyle of meetings, witnessing and socializing. If you had heard the personal story of 1 Ukraine woman who became a JW in the Polish Nazi concentration camp and then sentenced to death by the Communists, later to spend 15 years in prison you would have tears at her courage. I held her hand while this old woman told me her story and she had a grip like a crocodile at 85. That is amazing determination.
As a publisher who is well informed of your view of things and can even occasionally agree on matters such as child baptism, it is not even close for me and my family to even consider leaving this organization. Even if I did it would mean I wasted my life and that would be a terrible thing to bear. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks they wasted years with JW’s or any other organization.
I haven’t wasted my life and even if I did not go through Armageddon, I would look back with few regrets and be happy that I was a witness for the majority of my life.
Our Organization is going to be here permanently.
PS I did go back to college for 1 year and not one person said boo about it. Never heard any gossip at all. Thanks to my 10 years pioneering it actually helped me in different ways. I graduated with 11 honours in 11 subjects. There were 2-3 persons that were smarter than me but I was awarded Dux of the college mainly because of my determination. :o) I am proud of that achievement and when people looked at my work photo album and saw my educational achievements, they often gave me the job over somebody else.
So, koalaboy (and other Watchtower defenders), will you be taking up the Cedars Challenge? ;)
http://youtu.be/lZ2lMsmjQY0
Koalaboy are you counting your time on here conversing with apostates on your report card, and r/v’s.
Just curious.
Kat… now let me be curious as well… why do you care? :-P
Sorry about being off topic. This is my last response to koala boy.
K,B, your posting on this site, reveal an ambiguity in your reasoning.
You stated that you “Respect, and Love” the Org, But you blatantly
ignore the admonition of this ( God directed Org?) and therefore the
guidance of Jehovah. By associating with “Apostates”.
W,T, 04/2/15, p, 15-20. Instructs “Avoid apostates, steer clear of
their reasonings, whether in person, in printed form, or on the
Internet, ( Censorship, the hallmark of a totalitarian, mind control
system.)
Why do you not use your real name on your posts. My reason is
I have family in the org, and they could be turned against me,
to force me to conform, (yet another method used by totalitarian
States, and mind control cults.)
Because of the double standards, between your words and actions.
I am a little suspicious of your motive for posting. You do not appear
to be a wholehearted J,W, Are you having doubts and investigating
other opinions. Or are you passing the time by trying to wind us up.
In case it’s the latter, I will no longer rise to the bait. I am no longer
a double minded man, and am content and not bitter. I wish the
same for you, and everyone else.
Koalaboy, why don’t you use your own name? Are you afraid to do that? If so, why not? All your postings are about you and how much you “love the truth” and the only good thing you can say is that the Society sends money to refugees in Ukraine.
Can you tell us what evidence that the Watchtower is actually ordained by Jehovah God as his one and only spokesman? We are all waiting for some kind of evidence. Otherwise all the Watchtower Org. is a social club that you have to jump through hoops to stay in i.e., rules and regulations that a “not ordained” bunch of ordinary men who claim that even though they admit to not being ordained, pretend they are with all their man made rules and regulations.
Can you prove Jerusalem fell in 607? We are all waiting for evidence of that too. If that theory fails, your whole religion fails.
Can you prove the Governing Body was chosen by Jehovah in 1919? Do you know where the name of Jehovah even came from? Did you know that the name Jehovah was never found in any of the original manuscripts but the Society tells people that all the time like it’s a fact? What about all the misquotes the Society does with sources and all the misquotes even in their own Bible? Any lies, proves it’s not the “truth” and and is horse poop in that glass of water. Do you like horse poop? You are all kept in darkness on purpose and you are well aware of it or you’d use your real name.
You are afraid. I have a hard time believing any of your story. I think you are making up the whole story. I have been in the “truth” long enough to know a fake.
If you refuse to believe facts about the Watchtower, then you are no different than the ostrich who sticks his head in the sand because he’s afraid to know what’s going on around him and yes to admit you are not in the “truth” after all is life changing and hard to admit that your whole life has been wasted. Take your head out of the sand. If you do that, you will then understand our anger on this site.
I am beginning to understand why Cedars let you post here so we can all see when you go on and on about yourself, you are hanging yourself with your own words, much like the Watchtower does with all their words. Sooner or later, you can’t keep up with all the lies.
Should I start picking on all your words? I will do that if you really want me to. None of your story makes any sense to me. But tell us who you really are if you aren’t afraid to identify yourself. You shouldn’t be afraid to do that since you haven’t said a bad thing about the Organization. So, how can the Society find fault with you posting on this site and bring you before a committee for posting here. I think if you really are a Witness, then you are counting time, thinking you are witnessing here.
and Koalaboy, if there is anything you don’t agree with such as the child abuse policy, then technically, you are an APOSTATE. You are not even allowed to THINK the Organization wasn’t ordained by God as his only spokesman in 1919 or you are an APOSTATE. That’s why it’s so important that you prove it as a fact, not a supposition.
Do you really like belonging to a social club where you are not even allowed to have your own thoughts in your own head? If so, you are no more than a robot. I for one, can’t live like that. If you want to live like that and are happy with that, then do it. Nobody here is trying to take you out of your little bubble but don’t think there’s anything you have to say that will convince us to put our heads back in the sand anymore just to stay in the social club. We’d all have to be idiots to do that.
Koalaboy,
Your last comment has hurt me deeply. It shows that you have not an ounce of love for the children that your religion has thrown away. You are not willing to help them. Why is that?
You say that you are providing for your loved ones which is good and right. But aren’t the “worldly” people doing the same thing?
You say that you could not handle the fact that you have wasted your life. Well, anonymous is coping with that fact, and she has not allowed it to stop her doing all she can for others. Well done, anomymous! You are a dear and kind lady.
Oh koalaboy! What a pity that you have put your interests above those of the many, many victims of child abuse in your religion. I will not judge you, but Jesus will.
Please read Luke chapter 6 and contemplate what you are doing. It is clear to me that you just do not understand what Jesus asks of you.
Consider this. Jesus asks you to love your enemies. Are the child victims of paedophiles your enemies, koalaboy?
No, of course they are not. Yet, you will not show love for them by helping us to expose and stop this from happening. Why is that?
Jesus asks us to show mercy, not sacrifice.
You sacrifice your time and resources to a religion that does not show mercy. It does not show mercy to the ones it shuns and it certainly does not show mercy to the victims of KNOWN paedophiles in your religion.
I am not going to judge you, koalaboy. That is Jesus’ responsibility.
But I will say this: from my understanding and reading of the Gospels you need to rethink what you choose to do.
I hope that you will return to a path that shows love to all, and especially the innocent little children and young people that have been abused, along with all those wonderful women who have been abused too.
I’m sorry to say that you have failed to prove to me that the WTBTS is the right religion to follow. You have reaffirmed my desire to see it brought to justice for all the crimes it has committed in the name of God and Jesus.
I see no point in you continuing to post here, koalaboy. You have proven by the things you have chosen to write that you have picked membership of a religion over doing what is right. I hope you change your heart and decide to help us.
Until then,
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
…and Koalaboy if you are actually a Witness, we would all understand why you cling so tenaciously to the hope that you in the one and only “true” religion. You have a lot to lose. If you found out that you have been lied to all your life by the Society, it would be devastating, just as you say and then having your mouth taped shut with the threat of disfellowshipping if you try and warn your loved ones who are still in that religion is still even more devastating.
Don’t come on here and try and convince us we are on the wrong track. Go and do some research first and then come back and try and convince us that it’s we who are wrong and you are right. Did you go on on J.W. Facts? If so, then how can you defend the Organization? Can you prove any of those “facts” on J.W. Facts wrong? You need to do some serious research about the history of the Organization and then come back and defend it. What it is today has nothing to do with what it was when Jesus and Jehovah supposedly chose it as his true religion in 1919. If Jesus chose that religion as his “truth” in 1919, then Rutherford apostated away from it or we’d be preaching what they did in 1919. Coming up with “new light” is only an excuse to say they didn’t have it right in the first place, thus showing they never had the correct understanding. If God had chosen them in 1919, then God would have given them the correct understanding then, so why change it?
It’s a man made religion or cult and if you dare to disagree openly with any of it’s decisions or rules, you will be promptly removed and shut up from opening your mouth to anybody else in your religion.
You don’t agree with the child protection policy? Then why don’t you speak up? You don’t because you know that you are not allowed to. You are afraid. What kind of religion is it, to be AFRAID and have to pretend to everyone at your Kingdom Hall that you are happy? How many of those people at your Kingdom Hall are happy to dress up and go to all the meetings and go out in service? You know as well as all of us, that the only people who enjoy doing that are the ones that could only fit in at the hall and that is the only group of people that give them a sense of belonging and like any other cult, were made to believe that they are the most favored of God’s spirit than anybody else in the world. Most of us were elated when a meeting was called off, not sad. We were all coerced into going to meetings. It wasn’t because we just loved going. If you were free to openly ask all those at your Kingdom Hall that question and they were free to give you an honest answer, I will bet you, dollars to donuts that they would rather have stayed home and done anything other than having to go to those boring meetings. Every time I went to a meeting, all it did was make me depressed. It never made me happy. I only had a “good conscience” because I did my duty and showed up to “encourage” my brothers and sisters.
@ Koala Bear.
I Will tell you about mind control, Because you are being controlled. Recently an elder Was jailed for 14 years for child abuse and rape. It was reported in the papers. The congregation was told not to follow the story as it could be classed as apostasy. (I don’t get how )Why wern’t they allowed to follow the story? Is it because they were going to find out stuff about the mishandling of information? Or maybe they would read that all the paperwork had strangely gone missing!!!!!!! . …….this is mind control on a low level. There is much bigger and more sinister mind control going on, starting with the kids. …………meet Caleb and his family.
An easy mistake to make John. No one doubts your integrity.
:-) for all the grown up JW’s . Kate bush. The hounds of love. Peace of mind.x
Run up that hill before.x
Oh for Goodness Sake,
I am not doubting your word, but do you have any evidence of the Barry Congregation being admonished in this way?
If you do, please can you send it to John Cedars so that I can send a copy of it to the Charity Commission?
Of course, you can also complain yourself, if you live in the UK!!!
If you have documentary evidence or an eye witness statement to back up your point, then that is the kind of evidence that the CC need to see.
Peace be with you
Excelsior!
Having read tonight’s article on the Guardian website, I think it’s safe to assume I was right to say I was right that people were being too quick to blame the doctors. It seems clear to me that they were always acting in the child’s best interests and that the parents, under their immense stress, just made an error of judgement. Their trip to Prague being agreed is clearly because time is now of the essence to get treatment for Ashya, and nobody wants the parents holding up treatment any more, even though the treatment is not likely to be any more effective than that which he would have gotten in England.
Cedar’s challenge…
I think this goes beyond one man’s challenge.
Matthew 7:22:
“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ ”
I forget how that works out.