Life is an adventure. The roads taken are sometimes predictable and at other times quite unexpected. If you had asked me one year ago where I saw myself in a year, my answer would not be “The new webmaster for JW Survey”.

Spiro Floropoulos
Spiro Floropoulos

I am excited to introduce myself and let you know a bit about me.

A very brief history

My family background is steeped in Jehovah’s Witnesses. I am a third generation Jehovah’s Witness (ex JW obviously) – so I have a lot of family still inside. As a matter of fact, most are still in the organization.

I have a passion for technology, programming, robotics, video games, science, books, a bit of math and some light philosophy.

Over 15 years of general programming experience gives me the opportunity to help out the Survey team in some pretty cool ways.

I’m a single data with a daughter. I couldn’t be prouder of my family.

How did I get to join the team?

Simply put, watching the videos on the John Cedars channel changed my life.

I reached out to Lloyd because I appreciate his approaches to dismantling the Jehovah’s Witness belief system and reasoning it all out. Lloyd took kindly to my volunteer efforts and let me in a bit.

From there, we simply continued to support each other and build a bit of a relationship, even though we’d never met (and still haven’t).

After a while and a few smaller projects together, he asked me to join the JW survey team, we shook on it (digitally) and that’s that!

Ultimately, I just want to support the team so they can help as many people as possible. There’s no better reward than knowing some action you took today may help someone down the line in ways you can’t possibly know.

What do I get to do?

I’ll be helping all the members of the team with web technologies as much as I can. This will include making upgrades to the website here and possibly future ones to come.

I will also be available to funnel web related issues from you, the wonderful readers; so do give me a shout if there are any issues you think we should address.

Hopefully this will grow and I’ll get to help out with many other technological aspects as well. My strengths aren’t limited to just the web.

In reality, if I’m doing my job right, you should never really know I’m here!

A special shoutout

I want to thank everyone on the JW Survey team for having me on board and being so welcoming. I hope that I can do everyone proud.

[Editor’s note: Have a question, complaint, or a suggestion? Please email us at]

156 thoughts on “JW Survey Welcomes New Webmaster

  • February 11, 2019 at 8:01 pm

    Outandabout. How small was that singularity that contained all the mass of this universe? Where did it come from? And since scientists preach there are singularities inside black holes why have those not turned into universes too, like the one preached that became this universe?

    With regard to traveling through time that both scientists and the Bible preaches, any life forms existing in dimensions that allow that would exist in all time periods simultaneously. The expression traveling is used to express a relationship to time and places that helps us humans grasp the concept with the limited knowledge humans have.


    • February 11, 2019 at 8:53 pm

      Illogical conclusions, messenger? So why isn’t ‘the bible is true because it says it’s true’ not an illogical conclusion?
      Keep it simple. God loves us but if we don’t love him back he kills us’ has worked fine for centuries. The good old tried and true good versus evil, good cop bad cop, reward and punishment, etc, y’know, all the ingredients that a good story needs. God obviously took writing lessons. He knows what works.
      Those concepts you speak of are just theories. I thought you hated theories and only dealt with facts? Is it because you see a ray of hope for the continuation of your beliefs that makes you grab onto those theories. Whatever. All good with me.
      Love ya!

      • February 12, 2019 at 12:05 am

        Outandabout why don’t you lay some facts on the readers then concerning where this universe came from. If all this matter didn’t pop up out of another universe from a tiny spec and then turn into something REALLY BIG then how did it get here? What facts do you have? Because if you have none you are talking about something you know nothing about.

        A lot of what you say is illogical because it’s all emotion. “I don’t like God because of this or that.” Things about him or things about what people do that you don’t like.

        So, you saw or heard of a duck crossing a road and decided everything that crosses it is a duck huh? That’s what I mean by illogical, and emotional.

        You do have one thing correct I believe. We are defined (by God) by what we want. Defined by our choice. My belief is that our experience at this time is so we will understand that, not just in ourselves but in all intelligent beings.

  • February 12, 2019 at 12:28 am

    Outandabout…. An example of your logic, which is illogical :

    1. I will trust the world’s experts on subjects that I have not become an expert on myself. They are correct because of years of discovery.

    2. But when what they discover does not EMOTIONALLY satisfying me I will turn to a second tier of experts that refute the world’s findings. Thus if this second group claims something I like I call it fact.
    Leaving any knucklehead that writes the Bible cannot be accurate because of any reason at all I will accept.

    Outy, erase the word knucklehead from point two, and you have your reasoning. It’s emotions that drive it.

    On the other hand Bible writers claim their stories are based on facts. I claim my story to be factual. So, we have accounts that people claim are facts against someone whose choice is to disregard what he doesn’t like, and someone that does not even attempt to explain existence. That’s what I mean by illogical and talking about things you know nothing of. Now, do you want to tell us about that duck again?

    • February 12, 2019 at 1:00 am

      Satisfying should read satisfy.

      • February 12, 2019 at 9:09 pm

        You’re a character messenger….the pot calling the kettle black.
        Nobody knows where the singularity came from or even if it was a singularity but what we do know by observing the cosmos is that the objects contained within are moving away from each other and at an increasing speed.
        My own thoughts then, if there was a big bang and the planets, etc are picking up speed, that suggests the big bang has only just happened. It also suggests the size of the Universe is something so incomprehensibly large that Earth could fit on the sharp end of a pin and that although the Universe is calculated to be 13.8 billion years old, that’s equivalent to only a tiny fraction of a second in the bigger picture.
        So it stands to reason that one day the Universe will run out of energy, stop expanding and then, who knows, but it’s been calculated that in 2 billion years time the Milky Way will collide with Andromeda and this is actually observable so fasten your seat belt.
        The Universe owes no favors. It just is and although we don’t know the full story and never will, I’m not going to tie up loose ends with the myths and fables supported by grains of truth on the subject, i.e. ‘the Earth hangs on nothing’ and ‘the Earth is supported by enormous pillars’. Which one is it? Both are supposed to be the words of an infallible god who, if he’s all we are forced to believe, should have been able to ‘poof’ a perfect document into existence but instead needed help from lowly humans. If He was smart, he would have appeared before the Chinese who could already read at that time which suggests they were already brighter than the Middle Easterners.
        Meanwhile in South America, the Aztecs were forced to extract a beating human heart every single day just to make sure the sun rose. Very primitive world back then and some people are still stuck in it.

        • February 13, 2019 at 7:26 am

          Again, telling us about the duck doesn’t help your argument. You admit you don’t know how the universe got here, or where it came from. I rest my case. You talk about what you don’t know and admit even mankind without God is just guessing. Meanwhile you cannot escape the fact of the many testimonials from people contacted by intelligence from other dimensions.
          But YOU don’t know. So that’s all we need to know about your argument. Your shooting blanks and dressing them up with diversions, the evolutionary theory being your primary diversion.

        • February 13, 2019 at 7:35 am

          By the way when a bullet leaves a gun it slows down. It doesn’t speed up. The same way a rocket does without thrust. The planets and stars speed up because there is something making them speed up that puzzles your scientists. Something else they don’t know.

          • February 14, 2019 at 12:28 am

            messenger, of course I admit I don’t know where the universe came from. Nobody does but all we can do at this stage is observe the cosmos and form opinions on the findings. Where are you coming from?
            The time between when a bullet is stationary and when it reaches maximum velocity is measurable and during that time it is accelerating. This is the time-frame I’m referring to.
            There will always be something scientists don’t know but one thing is certain, we’d still be in the bronze age were it not for enquiring minds, discussion and skepticism; something religion tried to suppress because they could smell their demise but truth always wins but sometimes it is hard won. Churches are blood guilty. Can you imagine a group of scientists huddled around the bible trying to find a cure for cancer or work out how to intercept a passing comet and place a probe on it and then have that probe start sending back data to Earth?
            What is meant by ‘reason is the devils harlot’, messenger?

          • February 14, 2019 at 3:56 pm

            Outandabout the point I make is you write like you do know where the universe came from. Yet when pressed you admit you don’t even agree with scientists who you previously claimed to support. Not impressive! Also a contradiction like your claims contradict your assertions.

            But now we all know YOU don’t know. And there is no of course about it. You are the one claiming of course to that. Billions don’t. But YOU DON’T KNOW, therefore it’s of course to you. Doesn’t have to be. It’s a choice.

            And that’s what the ignorance of the blind teaches the enlightened. Ignorance about the matter is a choice which arises out of a desire for independence. Thus the sharp and derogatory comments about anything having to do with God. And yet you cry, “God will kill me if I don’t love him.”

            I ask why shouldn’t he considering what it produces, a condition which you exemplify.

  • February 14, 2019 at 5:50 pm

    Outandabout you throw a lot of things into your comments that don’t support your fundamental argument and thus shoot yourself in your foot.

    When a bullet leaves a gun it starts to slow down not speed up. Both friction from the air molecules and gravity cause that. After leaving a gun the piece of lead has nothing working on it to cause it to accelerate.

    Looking through telescopes scientists using the doppler effect measured the speed stars are moving away from each other. They expected them to be slowing down because of the gravitational pull, same reason as the bullet. They certainly didn’t think they would be speeding up, because they knew of no force that would make their speed increase. So when it was discovered the stars’ speeds are increasing they named two power sources, Dark Matter and Dark Energy that scientists know about, but they don’t know what those are. Those unknown energy sources scientists claim make up most of what exists in the universe. What we know about scientists claim is the least part of the universe.

    Now let’s get to your constant assertion dressed up in mumbo jumbo. It is God does not exist from someone who admits he has no idea why things exist or where things in existence come from. Your assertion is illogical because you admit your ignorance about the subject while claiming to know. Remember what Redwood brought out about the estoppel legal doctrine? Legally you cannot argue opposing sides to an issue e. g. I know, but I don’t know. Your argument should be dismissed by any competent intellect.

    • February 14, 2019 at 7:46 pm

      I’ve never claimed to be an expert on such matters, messenger, and I’m quite happy not knowing. Like I said; “my thoughts”. I didn’t say “this is fact”. I said something was being observed and this is what I think. A bullet must go from stationary to maximum velocity in a period of time. What I suggested is that with the cosmos accelerating, we are in that accelerating period of time after the BB. You could re- read what I’d written but I doubt you will. But what happens when a bullet is fired into a vacuum? Frankly, I don’t even care.
      You on the other hand claim to know the reason for life, the universe and everything just by reading a document written by people who assert animals get their spots and stripes by mating in front of shrubs in a certain way, but would you dare stand up on a stage and say that is true? No way in hell you would but then you’d still claim the bible is the inerrant word of an inerrant god, so who’s kidding who? Lies must be told to keep it afloat. You can’t deny it.
      And then you have the audacity to suggest I’m dumb for listening to scientists, people who have made our lives so much better in so many ways and all you can do is snarl at them as if they’re trying to take your precious toy away from you. It’s not at all the job of scientists to disprove god. Nobody is sitting in labs trying to do that. They have much grander aspirations and wouldn’t lower themselves to such nonsense. But the sole job of christian scientists is to prove creation and they are getting absolutely nowhere.
      I’m reminded of a debate between Ken Ham and Bill Nye and they were both asked the question; ‘what would it take to change your mind”. Ken replied that absolutely nothing could change his mind and Bill said ‘show me the evidence’. Thats all it takes, messenger.

      • February 15, 2019 at 10:18 am

        Dressing your assertion up with side points doesn’t help your case.And witho something to increase the speed objects in motion slow down because of the effect of gravity. Bullets leaving runs slow down. Because of gravity it was once believed the stars do also.

        But those are distraction from your main point which is God does not exist. Saying scientists don’t attempt to prove that doesn’t help your argument. You say it. Then you imply that you don’t know without the nerve to come out and say it. Caught in your own web.

        • February 15, 2019 at 1:12 pm

          you still don’t get what I was proposing, messenger. Are we currently in the period of time immediately after the BB when everything is accelerating and we haven’t even reached maximum velocity. Our Earth is hurtling through space at approx. 67,000 mph. Does it feel like it? The Earth rotates at approx. 1000 mph at the equator. Are you hanging on to anything? People in Australia should be hanging upside down. Are they? It’s about perception. So is it possible we exist in the immediate aftermath of an explosion and with the universe being endless, we don’t even feel it. A thought of mine. Nothing else.

          So, messenger, watch my lips; I don’t have all the answers and I’ll continue to ponder things and I don’t have a problem with that. One thing is certain though, just because I don’t know, I’m not going to accept the first story that comes along and most especially won’t if that story is as hostile to enquiry as yours is and if I smell an injustice I will attempt to expose it.

          What does ‘reason is the devils harlot’ mean, messenger?
          In itself, that little statement reveals so much about what goes on behind the scenes of your belief system.

          • February 15, 2019 at 2:21 pm

            As for your little subtopic about acceleration. Nothing accelerates without something to propel it. Nothing increases in speed without something to cause that. Even if there was a big bang the stars would not speed up unless something outside the initial explosion caused that. There is no 13 billion years later that explosion would cause them to accelerate. Because of gravity that would begin working immediately they would decelerate.

            Now this should be easy enough to understand. Same reason a bullet falls to the ground. Same reason satellites eventually do also. No force no increased speed.

            Not your main point though. But it does demonstrate how little scientists know since they believe 90% of the universe is this unknown energy source.

            Now let’s get down to what you have been teaching for 2 years or more. Do you know definitely there is no creator of this universe? Do you know definitely that he has not communicated with any human?

      • February 15, 2019 at 2:06 pm

        Outandabout so let’s get directly to the main theme of your assertions and stop dressing it up with subtopics like what scientists believe. I understand you to teach God doesn’t exist. Another most prominent theme of yours is that it is stupid to believe there was a creator (god) of everything we see. Is that what you think and teach or not?

        If it is not what you believe then how smart is it teaches if you do so in ignorance? All the the time crying he will kill me if I don’t love him? Teach he doesn’t exist when you don’t know? Saying derogatory things about him if he exists? Calling people who believe in his mouth backwards and stupid? If he exists why would he want you around?

        • February 15, 2019 at 2:42 pm

          My phone punched in wrong words. And please believe me, it was my phone. I had nothing to do with it. Just like a universe that was not created.. That’s how my phone works.


  • February 16, 2019 at 1:17 pm

    “Colossus: The Forbin Project”-1970-is an interesting film. It was truly eerie to hear the draconian World Control computer say “Obey and live, or disobey and die.” Truly eerie.

  • February 16, 2019 at 1:43 pm

    I have been following this back-and-forth between messenger and outandabout. Let me contribute my two cents worth. It is true that objects do not accelerate once the initial force is gone. A bullet accelerates only until it leaves the barrel of the gun, due to the expanding gases within the confines of the barrel. Once the bullet exits, the gases dissipate and the bullet is on its own. Hence the significance of “muzzle velocity.” That having been said, it is also true that scientists do not know everything, and they admit it. Unlike religion. As far as the “accelerating universe” goes, there are theories, such as Dark Energy. There is so much that is simply not known. As far as messenger’s belief in God goes, I respect that. But does he honestly expect us to believe that God is, even now, exerting some “active force” on each and every heavenly body, causing everything in the universe to constantly accelerate outwards? I should think God would have better things to do. Belief in God is one thing. Belief in the biblical/quranic/talmudic god is something else entirely. Sir messenger has yet to come up with one microscopic shred of empirical proof that the Creator of all things and the god of the bible are one and the same.

    • February 16, 2019 at 2:39 pm

      Let’s answer my questions when you address me and not comment on something diversionary Outandabout brings up to cloud his main assertion. And hey buddy I am not here to convince YOU or HIM of anything. But since it appears that you take his view go ahead and answer the two questions I put forth to him, and stop dancing around the topic. This Site, JWsurvey speaks, of a religion not the laws of motion.

  • February 16, 2019 at 1:56 pm

    And by the way, even if science is mistaken about an accelerating universe, that still would not in itself disprove the Big Bang theory. Just like the bullet analogy. What difference does it make if the bullet continues to accelerate or not? The fact is, it was a big bang that got it moving in the first place!

  • February 16, 2019 at 3:45 pm

    Interesting comment, gruntled.

    Messenger, I believe the sun god Ra exists. Can you prove the sun god Ra does not exist even though millions of people lived and died believing he existed.
    Using the same method you use to prove the bible but with a slight but important difference; evidence proving the existence of Ra is written in stone by ancient Egyptians and that evidence remains in an unaltered state today.
    Because of it’s unaltered state, I believe the evidence for the existence of Ra is much stronger than that for the Abrahamic god.
    Socrates was a skeptic and was forced to take hemlock for not recognizing the gods of the state and corrupting the youth of Athens. Gods that no longer exist. Why don’t they exist, messenger?
    Gods were our only answer because that’s all we had. That sort of thinking was the limit of our capabilities back then and that’s shown by the existence of gods all over the world throughout time.
    Same with the virgin birth. Hop on google and check out how many belief systems feature a virgin birth. It’s not original and once again demonstrates our limits. Belief systems sometimes use a virgin birth to prevent infinite regression, y’know, who was the father of the father of the father of the father, etc. When you’re manufacturing a deity you need absolute purity- hence the virgin birth which also adds credibility. Stir in some myth and legend and sprinkle with the odd fact. Plagiarize some already existing thought and claim it as your own. Serve to a superstitious, largely illiterate and ignorant audience and a star is born.

    You’ve heard of the evidence supporting the flooding of the Black Sea from the Mediterranean in ancient times and drowning villages? Would that be enough to give rise to a flood legend?
    Not sure of the timing of this, but imagine the Atlantic breaking through the land bridge between Gibraltar and Africa and sending a wall of water towards the Middle East. That would surely enter folklore.

    But you still don’t get what I was proposing. I’m referring to the period of time when the bullet is still in the barrel and still accelerating. Are we living in that period of time even though 13 billion years have passed since the gun was fired. Is the universe so large that this is possible. It’s all about our perception of reality.

    Anyway, your’re a top bloke.

    • February 16, 2019 at 4:12 pm

      What is this Outandabout using multiple psydonyms as an additional diversionary tactic. Because everything proposed by any real or fake poster since I asked him my three questions has been crap. Because nothing presented answers those questions.

      See outy I know where I am going before even entering these conversations. And if I can get you to honestly communicate I know where you are most likely to go and understand alternative answers you’re likely to present.

      But the crap you come up with is another story. I sincerely don’t believe it’s because of your intelligence level. I think you come up with the crap to divert the conversation because you are trapped. Now if you and your psydonyms or real buddies want to continue this farce how about telling the readers about Howdy Doody. That’s about as relevant to what I asked you as what’s been going down.

      • February 17, 2019 at 9:00 pm

        ok, then messenger, sorry, but if you like, give me those three questions again or as many questions as you like and I’ll answer them as honestly as I can.
        Could you please also tell me whether or not you believe 100% that God exists or are you just fairly sure and are willing to be proven wrong.

        • February 17, 2019 at 11:00 pm

          Because you said you don’t know where the universe came from or how it came about I asked:

          1. Do you believe it’s impossible it is the product of creation from intelligent life forms existing in dimensions we can’t enter?
          2. If you cannot say it is impossible that the universe was created then do you believe it impossible that some life forms from other dimensions contacted some humans?
          3. If you answered no to question one do you think it’s smart to make derogatory comments about possible creators? Considering I am pretty sure you agree with killing other life forms harmful to humans, say harmful bacteria.

          I already answered your question since I have been here. I said I was contacted, like thousands of humans or more have been contacted. To say I don’t believe is like saying I don’t believe in something else I already experienced.

  • February 18, 2019 at 7:58 am

    Why have the articles dropped off? Few and far between anymore.

  • February 18, 2019 at 2:14 pm

    Hi messeneger.

    (1) No, and neither should you because you’re committing heresy if you imagine more than one creator exists.

    (2) I believe people can have convincing experiences about other world contacts but whether they are real is extremely doubtful. Take the example of UFO experiences from around the world and the way they are all similar. Notice how these experiences only became common place as soon as the possible existence of UFO’s came into being and they’re all similar because our expectations of what an encounter with a UFO would be like is universal. It could then be argued that contacts from god became common place for the same reason. I believe the answers lie in psychology and neuro-science.

    (3) Yes, I consider it essential to make derogatory remarks about a possible creator and it’s about time this became possible so we can at last allow people to recognize the biggest hoax ever hoisted onto mankind and how churches and rulers have held us hostage for their own ends and held up our development for centuries. Even now, absolute and compulsory belief is used as a brutal form of social control. You may argue that Christianity is tame but let us not forget how badly it behaved when it could.

    In your world, messenger, if other dimensions exist, they must have been created by god since he supposedly created everything. Why would he need other dimensions if everything was created specifically with you and me in mind and if he’s omni- everything, he would have no need for other dimensions.

    The universe has to be endless because to imagine it has an end, we have to imagine what that end looks like. Is it a wall and how high is that wall? Is it a cliff and how far down does that cliff go. If it just runs out, what lies beyond?
    To couple the universe with a creator, the universe has to have an end and to do that brings us back too the very earliest explanation for the cosmos which had a firmament arching over us. That presents a problem; what lies outside the firmament? You’re still stuck with the same story the ancients used.

    • February 18, 2019 at 5:43 pm

      It’s very interesting to me how you don’t discount the possibility of creators of the universe existing but still you took on a mission to persuade against their existence. I believe you let what men do cloud your judgment, along with your desired independence from any possible god.

      As far as you stating I preach biblical heresy most Christians believe there were three persons who created the universe. Jehovah’s Witnesses believe there were two persons who created it. I have not heard of any Christian who believes there was one person who did that. One person doing so is unbiblical. One god doesn’t mean one person anymore than one government does. Therefore my thought was not biblical heresy, but maybe some heresy in another religious belief. I don’t know about that since I am no expert on religions.

      I also find it interesting that you allow for at least one creator and yet you hold to the idea it is absolutely impossible that he are other supernatural life forms have communicated with some humans. Like I said real supernatural contacts from God or his agents supply evidence they could be nothing but what they are. Your inexperience with such does not define their reality anymore than some people might have denied the existence of micro organisms in the past.

      Your rejection is a choice. I do believe one thing you believe. That choice is born out of desire among those persons having no experiences theirselves but instead believing others like the Bible writers . I believe showing that desire is how God separates us. And then he contacts some to validate what they already believed. In that sense you were correct. But in the idea contact is a delusion, well that is your wishful thinking backing your decision not to believe, and by doing so giving you peace of mind. To the others contacted it is no delusion as we cannot make miracles happen.

  • February 18, 2019 at 8:10 pm

    Outandabout. In court the only witnesses are people who have experienced an event first hand. Anyone testifying to what they heard from another is offering inadmissible evidence called hearsay. WT takes the name Jehovah’s Witnesses from a scripture in Isaiah where God speaking through Moses calls SOME Jews that. Some Jews were contacted by God, and others saw miracles. They were witnesses.

    Today WT claims God does not contact anyone, which is what you claim. People who have not been contacted or that haven’t seen miracles could not be witnesses to those things or to God’s existence. They can represent God and spread a message they have learned, but they cannot be a witness to things they haven’t experienced. A teacher or preacher yes. A witness no, except in name only. God has had real witnesses to his existence on Earth since the beginning of humanity.

    • February 18, 2019 at 8:54 pm

      Hmmm….. ‘one god doesn’t mean one person anymore’. Anymore?? Is this what’s known as the evolution of belief, messenger?
      And where in the bible does it mention more than one god having made the Earth?

      • February 19, 2019 at 1:28 am

        See Gen 1 : 26,27 ; Colosians1:16; Isaiah 9 : 6 ; John 1:18 and 1:1; John chapter 17

        • February 19, 2019 at 8:18 am

          Is this a bible class now?

          • February 19, 2019 at 8:46 am

            Messenger seems very confused. I can’t say that I blame him. Theology is a very confusing, nebulous “discipline.” He says “God (I assume he means the bible god- please correct me if I’m wrong, messenger) has had real witnesses to his existence on Earth since the beginning of humanity.” He also correctly stated that, in court, second-hand testimony is inadmissible hearsay. But his above testimony comes from reading the accounts of “witnesses” in the pages of the bible, and is therefore second-hand. Hearsay. Inadmissible. Unreliable. Messenger, you contradict yourself.
            Here is an interesting take on first-hand “eyewitness” accounts. Discussing UFO sightings and “alien abductions,” astrophysicist Neil DeGrasse Tyson said something to the effect “It’s ironic that, in a court of law, eyewitness testimony is treated as the foremost form of evidence, whereas in Science, eyewitness testimony is regarded as the least reliable form of proof.” So much for Jehovah’s “witnesses” and any other “witnesses” spoken of in the bible, etc.
            I could indeed claim that Howdy Doody communicated to me from the Great Beyond, as anyone could claim. But where is the empirical evidence?

          • February 19, 2019 at 1:04 pm

            Keep following Howdy Doody. Your comments are??? Made up beliefs to make you think you are correct. Full of errors like “religious people claim to know EVERTHING while scientists admit they don’t, or IN A COURT EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY is the most reliable. It’s not. You state many errors in your comments. I won’t list them all it serves no purpose. But any argument you make would be improved by BEING ACCURATE.

          • February 19, 2019 at 3:07 pm

            I don’t know what you mean. My arguments are always accurate. I have the most accurate arguments. No one has more accurate arguments than I do. I always double-check my arguments for accuracy. I have really, really accurate arguments. My arguments are the best. I have the best arguments.

          • February 19, 2019 at 4:51 pm

            Keep living the fantasy. I already pointed out a couple glaring inaccuracies in your argument. It’s not my desire to pick those apart. But to illustrate your inaccuracies show the readers where I wrote I was even attempting to convince anyone that God is exerting force on all heavenly bodies to make them speed up. Something you claimed I was doing. Inaccurately you are throwing crap up against the wall hoping some of it sticks in the minds of the uninformed readers. That’s what’s going on or you should read more carefully to improve your understanding. Other points like the inaccuracies I previously mentioned are just flat out misrepresentations due to tricky debate tactics or ignorance. OR SHOW THE READER WHERE ANY CHRISTIAN CLAIMS THEY KNOW EVERYTHING. Like many here you probably claim, what is it, critical thinking? If so use it. Start with accurate statements.

            As for me giving you eye witness testimony, if you don’t believethe prophets you wo n’t believe me. Therefore I don’t choose to enlighten you with that.

            Outandabout as for there being more than one creator and more than one person described as the biblical God note this. Biblically Isaiah 9 : 6 says He(Christ) will be called Mighty God. Forget about your personal belief and answer this question. Biblically who would be calling Christ that and looking to him as THEIR Mighty God the acceptable followers of Christ or the apostate Christians? And which Christians would refuse to look to him as THEIR Mighty God or claim that he is FACT is, the acceptable Christians or the apostate Christians? Mmmmm which is WT? Which position does WT take? From my reading online it appears most ex-JWs with a continued spiritual bent still do not look to CHRIST as their God.

          • February 20, 2019 at 3:40 am

            That makes no sense. It is nonsense. Your argument is fake. You are fake. My arguments are the best, most accurate arguments. EVERYBODY knows my arguments are the BEST arguments. It is because I am a certified genius. And very, very stable. A certified stable genius. Your responses mean nothing to me. I simply continue to bask in my own greatness.

  • February 19, 2019 at 4:15 pm

    messenger……if those scriptures had any real meaning they would have been picked up by scholars a very long time ago.

    From the outside looking in, this is how scripture gets used by the faithful; just say the GB wanted to ride Harley Davidson motorcycles and they needed to justify the extravagance to the flock. All they’d do is scour the scriptures for the word ‘roar’, twist the scripture around a bit and mention ‘new light’ and 8 million JW’s would all say in unison “we are soooooo llucky!
    Yes, no exaggeration, thats exactly how stupid and pathetic it looks to the un-indoctrinated.

    Wish-thinking is not only confined to religion. Followers of Nostradamus say he predicted the rise of Hitler because of his use of the word ‘Hister’ in one of his prophesies. Believers say it was a simple spelling mistake. The word hister is actually the ancient word for Danube, as in river.

    I earlier mentioned people travelling to Jerusalem to announce themselves as the Messiah. If you were to sit down and interview these people, what do you think you’d find that separates them from you? Why are their claims of being contacted by god considered bogus and yours not?

    • February 20, 2019 at 3:25 am

      Those scriptures were picked up by scholars years ago. Not that they need to be because the words are plain. Either apostate Christians consider Christ their God or acceptable Christians do. And vice versa. Either apostate Christians adamantly refuse that Christ is their God, as Jehovah’s Witnesses do, or acceptable Christians do. I don’t need a scholar to understand that. To my knowledge not only are all scholars in agreement so is every Christian church except WT. A point of distinction giving rise to the teaching it is not apostate. That is one of the primary reasons WT preaches every other church is apostate.

      To the point you bring up about accepting the findings of scholars. If you trust in them then you would except their findings yourself. The Bible agrees with your idea parts were written after the events, like Genesis. But if the parts that say they were not, like Daniel, were written by someone else the major religions who have scholars would know that. They don’t. They teach Daniel wrote Daniel. And yet you accept what some say about it that refute what religious scholars teach. I asked for proof of your position a couple years ago on this site. None was provided, just opinions. And comments like you just offered. Some of you read the scholars you follow who disagree with church scholarship but cannot reiterate their findings. More likely those findings only offer opinions because that’s all that was shared here on the topic.

      How am I to know what some persons going to Jerusalem claiming to be the messiah experienced? I don’t know and neither do you. There is a Paul Simon lyric in THE BOXER, “A man hears what he wants to hear and disregards the rest.”
      That’s how I view your sides’ acceptance of biblical scholars. You keep talking about so called scholarly findings to support your assertions but never produce anything that is evidence. Not just you personally but everyone I have read here proclaiming the ideas you do. Either those scholars you refer to have no evidence to back up what you claim or the many of you don’t understand it. Because no evidence has been shared. Don’t you think that ironic when the cry frequently comes from your side, “messenger offers no proof”? What proof do you offer? Or your side offer about any point that really makes a difference?

      With regard to Christ’s return, he did return before his apostles died. It was three days after his death, just as he claimed he would.

  • February 19, 2019 at 5:58 pm

    Hi messenger. You’ve just highlighted the confusing mess the bible is. Thats all. It can’t make it’s mind up and a large portion was written after the fact so how are we to know what is truth and what was just made up to fill the many gaps and square the circle. They missed one important part though; Jesus said he would return before his apostles died. He also said we must speak plainly when we speak. Saying “i will return before”, etc, couldn’t be any plainer.

    This is how an outsider see’s scripture being used by believers; just say the GB wanted to purchase Harley Davidson motorcycles and had to justify the worldly extravagance to the faithful. All they’d do is search for a scripture which includes the word ‘roar’, add some ‘new light’ to it and present it to the JW’s and 8 million of them would all gush “we are so lucky” in unison.
    I’m not trying to be sarcastic. That is how pathetic it is to the un-indoctrinated.

    Wish- thinking is not confined to religion. Followers of Nostradamus say he predicted the rise of Hilter when he wrote “Hister’ in a prophesy. Wrong. Hister is the ancient word for Danube, as in river.

    Earlier I mentioned people travelling to Jerusalem to announce themselves as the Messiah. If you were to interview these people, what is it that separates their experience from your’s? Why are their claims of being contacted by god bogus whereas yours is real?

  • February 20, 2019 at 4:00 am

    Messenger, you are a very illogical human. I have nothing to do, so I’ll respond to your crazy tirade. First, I never said eyewitness testimony IS the most reliable. I simply quoted Dr. Tyson saying that eyewitness testimony is TREATED by the court system as being reliable. Second, I was raised JW. I have had many interactions with many people of many backgrounds and religions. And I wasn’t f*cking born yesterday. So, YES, YES, and YES, christians and every other group of religious nut jobs do indeed BELIEVE THEY KNOW EVERYTHING.
    As far as my statement about God speeding up heavenly bodies, if you were capable of deductive reasoning, you would see how I came up with that. You and outandabout were debating the Big Bang. Outandabout stated that the universe is accelerating outward due to said Big Bang. Acceleration requires FORCE. Since it seemed, and again, please correct me if I’m wrong, that you don’t believe in the Big Bang, said FORCE would need to be provided by something or someone EXTERNAL, i.e. GOD. Unless you believe in Dark Energy or something else, which I doubt, because you seem to have nothing but contempt for Man and his scientific hypotheses.
    I hope you bugger off to your magical Howdy Doody land. Good Riddance.

    • February 20, 2019 at 4:16 am

      And by the way, personally I don’t give a flying f*ck how many “gods” you believe in.

      • February 20, 2019 at 4:27 am


  • February 20, 2019 at 1:09 pm

    Messenger…..Jesus did not return as promised. His body disappeared which could be argued is the opposite of returning. How do we know his well meaning friends didn’t take his body away for a dignified burial. Have you any proof that couldn’t happen.

    The only fulfilled prophesy from the bible is the Jew’s returning to Israel but the worth of that must be calculated by first acknowledging the pool of bogus and inaccurate claims and the countless number of completely failed and conveniently forgotten prophesies.
    Same with miracles. When an earthquake strikes and kills thousands, why is a miracle declared if one baby is pulled from the rubble. Only the faithful are capable of such nonsense.

    It’s accepted by historians and archaeologists that the Exodus never happened. Serious searching by Israel to find evidence to strengthen their claim resulted in failure.

    All you have is Faith, messenger, and having faith means believing in something without any evidence. The world knows your position and every attempt to align faith with science and reason is doomed to failure. All you have to do is say “well that is what I believe” and the argument ends.

    But you didn’t answer me…..why is your account of your contact with god better or different from those suffering from Jerusalem syndrome?

    • February 20, 2019 at 3:37 pm

      I already answered you. I don’t know what experience those guys had and neither do you. As for unfulfilled prophecy you claim that with absolutely no proof. Just making assertions doesn’t make an argument.

    • February 23, 2019 at 12:24 pm

      Kevin Spacey from Usual Suspects, “The greatest trick the Devil ever played is convincing people he doesn’t exist.”

      WT taught us (JWs) that Satan has no diabolical influence on its leading members, the GB and its writers. That was the greatest trick WT played on us.

      But for you Outandabout that trick didn’t work, as you were already caught by an even greater trickster denying his existence.

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