Experts will be meeting in London to help raise awareness of undue influence
Experts will be meeting in London to help raise awareness of undue influence

A workshop by author and respected cult expert Steven Hassan on the topic of undue influence has been organized for this coming weekend in London, and is already over-subscribed.

Undue influence has been defined as any act of persuasion that overcomes the free will and judgement of another person. This type of persuasion is prevalent among many fringe groups, religious and political sects, and cults – including Jehovah’s Witnesses.

As announced earlier this week on AAWA.co, a press conference has been scheduled as a precursor to the workshop event in order to highlight the often misunderstood subject, and its dangers, to members of the media and other guests.

Hassan will be joined on the panel by Jon Atack, an author and expert on Scientology; Masoud Banisadr, a former representative of the group Mujahideen-e-Khalq Organization (MeK); Dr Linda Dubrow-Marshall, a psychologist specializing in treatment of cult influence; Prof. Rod Dubrow-Marshall, a renowned psychology professor and award-winning researcher of undue influence, and finally – our very own Lloyd Evans (better known to all of us here at JWsurvey as John Cedars)!

As many of you know, Lloyd is a former elder and graduate of the now-defunct Ministerial Training School, and he will be looking to use his knowledge and experience to highlight the use of undue influence by Watchtower. Lloyd has decided to shed his anonymity specially for this event, although he says he will continue to write for us under the moniker “Cedars.”

The conference, scheduled for Friday August 22, 2014 at 1:30 pm, is open to AAWA invitees and members of the press only. However, it will be professionally filmed, and footage should be released to the public at some point in the near future.

Until that time, please visit JWsurvey, the John Cedars YouTube channel, and our partner sites for the latest articles, posts and videos covering what promises to be a fascinating conference and its surrounding events.

 

 

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Further reading…

44 thoughts on “Experts to highlight “undue influence” at London press conference

  • August 20, 2014 at 12:18 am
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    Hi Lloyd. Congratulations on being part of the conference pertaining to what constitutes undue influence. This is fabulous news.
    Best wishes,
    Helen Travers (Melbourne, Australia)

  • August 20, 2014 at 4:36 am
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    Wow thanks for this, should be very interesting, John is doing such a great work, look forward to the video’s!

  • August 20, 2014 at 6:11 am
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    Great news, Jeni!

    So while the JWs are about to start the afternoon programme at Twickenham, these fine folks will be speaking real Truth about this cult.

    anonymous let us know that Mike and Kim have had their youtube channel taken down. If you’re reading this, Mike and Kim, then see this as a victory for you two. You have got them worried by your excellent videos. I hope that you set up a new channel really soon.

    The scene is changing slowly. More and more people are reading sites such as this one, and the truth about the WTBTS is becoming manifest.

    Thank you, Jeni, for another excellent article and all the hard work you do as administrator.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 20, 2014 at 6:17 am
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    Hi Excelsior. Mike and Kim have another channel going called Cult Destroyer. They anticipated that the Watchtower would take them down if they struck too close to home and sure enough, they were right. The Watchtower is running scared, I’d think, by that action taken against Mike and Kim but the Watchtower isn’t going to win against them and everybody else who has wised up to their lies.

  • August 20, 2014 at 6:52 am
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    John, best of luck in this event. You have done so much to support and strengthen the people who have lost or given up their membership in the Tower, while taking the Human Rights case to the attention of officials. I have lost (suicide) a very good friend to the “obey or lose your wife and children” while being made aware of dozens of other good people now regarded as mentally diseased by this horrible group of false Christians. I am so sorry so many of you have had to go through this pain and loss of loved ones, I have been up all night thinking about certain apostles, my friend Denver, and the Mike and Kim removal off YouTube. When you think you’re alone and no one cares, remember me, as you are in my thoughts and I would do anything I could to help, to be a good friend or just lend a ear. John and many others understand and know of your challenges, wishing to assist in the ways they can. It is all hard to reconcile, would a group of real Christians do such things?

  • August 20, 2014 at 7:31 am
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    I hope this conference is seen by many, many people so that it gets wide spread coverage. More than anything in the world, I don’t want anybody else to get caught up in this horrible religion. When I was young, I almost took my own life because of this religion by taking a whole bottle of pills but I decided not to let them take my life away and went to the hospital for help. But I have lived in emotional pain all the time I have been involved with it, pretending it was God’s religion but knowing in my heart, there was something terribly wrong with it. It wasn’t until I went on the internet last year and found web sites like jwsurvey and jwfacts, that made me realize I wasn’t alone in my pain and doubts and now, even though I am on the outside looking in, I feel at peace finally.

    This religion seems so benign to outsiders but it must be made known to everyone just how much of a destructive cult it really is. Those in the cult, will only see shows like this as the “persecution” that the Watchtower predicts will happen. They are so blinded, but hopefully some will be open to the real truth and either get out of it or not start studying with the Witnesses in the first place if they can see a show like this. Thanks John and I am looking so forward to seeing it if possible here in the U.S.

  • August 20, 2014 at 8:03 am
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    I’d be interested to know wether there’ll be a representative
    of the J.W, Org, at the conference, or anyone from other cult’s.

    Also I wonder if the propaganda dept, will come up with anything
    new to counteract whatever is revealed, Other than blaming it on
    Old Nick.

    Or will they keep their heads down, skulking away. to avoid any
    awkward, unanswerable, questions,?

  • August 20, 2014 at 8:16 am
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    @Anonymous,
    The only thing I will regret is to see people awaken too late! When the cult will have gathered enough money (donations) to invest in other ways to destroy the world!

  • August 20, 2014 at 8:39 am
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    anonymous,

    Well said, Madam! Thank you for letting me know that dear Mike and Kim have a new channel. I shall look their new channel up soon.

    I am pleased that this conference is being held. John is quite rightly joining an illustrious panel. The media will give credence to this group of academics and experts in their fields.

    John,

    Bravo, sir!

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 20, 2014 at 11:09 am
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    For too many people, religion is seen, even by most non believers as, at the worst, harmless.

    The last couple of decades of Islamic horrors have dented that image abit. There is still, though, the tendency by outsiders, like teachers and politicians, to imagine that religious terrorists and doom threateners are somehow perversions of a noble and ancient religion of peace and international brotherhood.

    It is fortunate indeed that so many of the ‘People of the Book’ focus solely on the benign and constructive aspects, and seek to explain away the barbarous and primitive bits of their Holy Books, if indeed they pay them any attention at all.

    It will be interesting to see not only John Cedars, but also the ex Muslim fundies and others. Religious ‘Truths’, once implanted at a very young age, are very difficult to throw off. Mehdi Hassan is an articulate journalist, an Oxford graduate, and, unlike many Muslims, acknowledges that there is both racism and anti Semitism amongst some Islamic fundamentalists in the UK. For him Islam is based purely on prayer, almsgiving and fasting, none of which can be considered harmful, and the almsgiving indeed beneficial. Even he, though, believes implicitly, that Mahomet flew on a winged horse to Jerusalem where he met Abraham and the Patriarchs.

    This belief can only be possible if this ‘fact’ were presented to the infant Mehdi. Had it been delayed till his Uni. years, he might have been, at the very least, a little skeptical.

    As a kid at the Kingdom Hall, I, likewise, had no armoury of info. or reasoning skills whereby to dismiss as nonsense the claims that the JW bosses were God’s exclusive earthly rep.

    I look forward to hearing how the experts at this assembly, both at the press conference and over the w/e, will advise how the minds of children can be protected from perverse notions (like ‘be a suicide bomber’ or ‘pioneering is the only sensible course in these, the Times of the End’) and how adults whose minds are already poisoned, might best be cured.

  • August 20, 2014 at 1:27 pm
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    I understand the “undue influence.” It has followed me all of my life. When I entered kindergarten, the undue influence was there. We had our rugs to lie on, and their were rules of engagement. No sliding around or interfering with other students. What mind control! All through school, rules, rules, rules. Undue influence everywhere. We couldn’t walk right under their influence. Walk straight, in formation, especially when the fire bell rang for training. Then we had to conform to the studies, get good grades, or we couldn’t graduate. What undue influence! So we conformed, stressed beyond measure. We got into the big bad world and there was more undue influence. The very idea of a boss telling us what to do, how to dress in the office, what to think…..if we wanted a paycheck. He should have paid us anyway. All of his undue influence affected us pschologically. We were under his thumb with being fired always at the forefront. Such intimidation! Such undue influence! Who do these bosses think they are anyway? Just because they hold onto the purse strings does not matter. Just because the God of the Universe has the reward of everlasting life on the table does not matter either. Mankind is made up of fools and dorks and scumbags who are cut a lot of slack by a God who wants to fix them after this system ends. What they are now does not matter. Tell the boss to stick it just north of the arctic circle, the land of the midnight sun……or the place where the sun don’t shine. See how far we get then. We will be on the streets begging for food for our families. Ya want the food, take the hit from the big shot boss. Ya want everlasting life, take it the way big shot God runs his universe. Can’t cut it? Hit the bricks. Clean out your desk and be escorted out of the office building. Their undue influence is disgusting at best. The very idea of the boss telling us what to do just because he pays the check to us. Who does he think he is anyway? No Sir Ree Bob. We’re gonna tell the boss that it will be done our way, and he better have a good attitude about it. If not, we’re taking over the business in the secular field, and the universe in the spiritual field.

    • August 20, 2014 at 1:35 pm
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      Your analogies, Big Jim, are useless. There is good evidence to show that calm and order are needed in order not to get burned to death when evacuating a building in case of a fire.

      There is no evidence, however, to show that a suicide bomber, by killing himself and a bunch of infidels, will live thereafter in an eternal Paradise. There is no evidence either to demonstrate that living one’s life according to the diktats of a bunch of guys in New York will ensure survival through Armageddon, sometime last century, and eternal life on Paradise Earth.

  • August 20, 2014 at 2:39 pm
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    Hey Big Jim. Been there. Done that. We’ve all been where your head is right now.

    I was an adult when I got involved and knew nothing about the Bible and became convinced it was “God’s Organization” quickly and was convinced by the study conductor that whatever God said we had to do, was what we had to do. God owned us and the earth and had the right to make the rules and so it took me over a year but after hearing this over and over again, I became convinced that if GOD told me that I would have to let my child die on the operating table without blood, I’d have to let my child die even though before the study, that was the most disgusting thing I had ever heard of. I was told over and over again that, if God owned us, he had the right to make the rules, then we had to obey him because he owned us. We were all, also told quickly on, that God had to come first before everyone and everything else, including our parents and our mates and children. We were all there.

    The problem is that nobody ever showed us any evidence that God was actually speaking through the Watchtower before we got baptized. When you are allowed to question where the Watchtower actually get’s it’s authority, you are questioning the Watchtower and that is simply not allowed but nobody tells you that until after you get baptized. You are not allowed to question their authority. If you can prove to any of us that the Watchtower actually gets it’s authority from God, and not just claim it, we are all ears.

    The Governing Body does not have any more insight than anybody else of the rank and file. I am of the rank and file and what right would I have to make you believe and follow every “not inspired” interpretation that I might come up with, with the threat of disfellowshipping if I don’t make you follow my dictates just because I make the claim that God “anointed me” with Holy Spirit?

    The Governing Body admits to not being inspired. They admit to not being any smarter than you and I. What right do they have to go to the point of disfellowshipping me if I should let my child have a blood transfusion? They take it upon themselves (imperfect men) to force me to die, just because of their imperfect opinions. When they first study with us and tell us that it’s God who makes the rules and he owns us, but what they are really saying is that God makes the decisions that THEY come up with and so they have the right to disfellowship us if we don’t follow THEIR RULES (NOT GOD’S BUT THEIRS). They are the ones that put themselves in the place of God and you let them do it willingly and require no proof at all that they are speaking for God. You are nothing but an unpaid slave to the Watchtower, not to God, but to the Watchtower.

    Even though the Watchtower says you can’t buy your way into heaven by your works, the implication is always there that if you don’t work in the service, you won’t make it through Armageddon but Jesus said at Mathew 7:22 “Many will say to me in that day, ‘Lord, ‘Lord’, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful WORKS in your name?’ And yet then I will confess to them: I never knew your. Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness.”

  • August 20, 2014 at 3:29 pm
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    Lloyd it’s so good to see you have now come totally out and used your real name. God bless

  • August 20, 2014 at 3:38 pm
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    All religions have been established by claiming a special
    mission from God, communicated through certain individuals.

    The W,T, Org, is purely and simply a business corporation,
    Masquerading as a religion, and like all businesses, it does
    what it needs to do to survive.

    Human casualties are of minor importance, Suicides through
    shunning , deaths from want of a transfusion, children mentally
    damaged by abuse, all secondary to corporate image and
    survival.

  • August 20, 2014 at 6:31 pm
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    Jeni, excellent post, thank you for all the hard work you do in support of this site.

    John, I am really looking forward to the press conference, no matter when I get to see it. What an excellent way for you to be able to give accurate information about the “undue influence” meted out by the Watchtower/GB/Jehovah’s Witnesses cult.

    You will make a very credible witness in exposing their misuse of influence….to the harm of untold numbers of vulnerable people, some of whom have been damaged to the point of suicide. Our thoughts and prayers will be with you. You will be our voice….but, hey, no pressure here!

    Thank you John for representing us in a way that most of us here will never have.

  • August 21, 2014 at 1:20 am
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    I have a grandchild with a disability. I get very down and distressed about his future. Having lost my hope and never having passed that hope onto my now grown up children, I am held to blame for my grandchild not having a hope. According to someone, and I am not sure where I read this, my children would only get into the new system if I remained in the truth. SO I am being blamed by my mother for the destruction of her Grandchildren and great Grandchildren!!!!! Now this I dont get. My disabled grandsons future lay in my hands. How does that work. The creator will not help him because of me. I was SHUNNED at a time when I was so low, so depressed in my life I just didnt care what happened. Eventualy after many years, and recovery I got on with my life. My daughters watched the congregations treatment of me. They lost friends they had grown up with. Soooooooo they in their turn did not want to know the JW organisation. Adults now. They are even more aware. It would follow that they would not bring their children into this religion. It is their right to choose. ( I was re in stated at one point, but still shunned) I faded. This whole scenario lasted thirty years. Now back to my reason for writing. The organisation turned its back on a desperatly mentaly ill young woman. One who tried to return and was still shunned. One who backed off because she was becoming ill again. One who’s children were still being treated as though they were the guilty party. My mother now blames me, for my grown up girls choices today. But mostly she says ” it does not make sense. How can you say you are desperatly sad about your grandchild, and do nothing about it” she says ” Jehovah can put it right but only If you return. The girls will follow you” !!!!!! Can someone tell me. Is it really my fault.

  • August 21, 2014 at 1:39 am
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    Sorry my comment above has gone into the wrong thread. My fault.

  • August 21, 2014 at 3:37 am
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    Hi Patrice. It sounds like you and your mother still talk to each other? The only thing I’d say to her is “can you give me any kind of proof that Jehovah God actually chose the Watchtower organization in 1919 to be it’s one and only voice to humankind?” As her “Do you know what was being printed and sold as God’s word in 1919 by the Organization?” I’d have her watch on youtube Peter Gregerson’s video “Is the Watchtower God’s Only Organizaton? It’s about an hour but he has so many reasons that God would not be backing the Organization. I don’t know how old she is but if she is elderly and frail, I don’t know if you can get very far with her anyway. If she can just realize that the Watchtower makes the claim but has no real evidence to back up the claim, that the Watchtower was NEVER appointed by God in the first place, as it’s spokesman to man but it’s actually a man made religion that only uses the fear of getting killed at Armageddon and uses the thought that God will kill every human being on the face of the earth if all these people don’t become one of Jehovah’s Witnesses as the guilt factor to make us go out and preach as the impetus to “sell” it to everyone, maybe you can get through to her that it’s she, that is being misled.

    The best thing that ever happened to you is that your children don’t want anything to do with the Org. Don’t ever feel guilty about that. If losing your mother’s love and respect is the price you have to pay, then I’d be okay with that. The thing that would make me the happiest in this world, is if all my children felt like yours do. Be glad of that, not sad. What makes me the most depressed is that my children will get to be in their 60’s like I am, and then realize that their religion that they wasted their entire lives on, was just a sham and took advantage of them for their own selfish gain.

  • August 21, 2014 at 5:41 am
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    Patrice,

    Your dear grandchild has access to doctors and modern medicine. God’s promise to cure the sick through his son is NOT dependent on being a member of an offshoot of 7th Day Adventism and a cult.

    It is not your responsibility to save your grandchild, because they have already been saved by Jesus.

    Don’t feel bad and don’t feel guilty.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 21, 2014 at 8:16 am
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    @Patrice, Please don’t be too hard on yourself, I would urge
    you to have confidence in your own decisions, and not allow
    others to undermine your confidence.

    Your Mother no doubt believes she’s right, but as we know from
    personal experience, – After years of coercive indoctrination the
    reasoning becomes stunted, your mother is a victim, as most of
    us who visit this site formerly were, stay with us, don’t become
    a victim again.

    I too have a grandson who was born with a deformity of the spine
    and we give him extra love , and he’s a happy little boy, also as
    Excelsior points out, we have the medical profession to help us
    and their knowledge and skill. is increasing all the time.
    So despite all the doom and gloom that comes from the W,T,
    this is the best time to be living in, and there’s much more good
    than bad in the world.

    And please don’t feel you have lost hope . It belittles the creator
    of this wonderful universe, to say he’s only interested in those
    that walk through the doors of a Kingdom Hall.

  • August 21, 2014 at 2:53 pm
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    John/Lloyd this is such a great opportunity and really shows that you are making a difference . After a year of going through hell trying to leave JWs, our family business finally crumbled today because we are “apostates” and so our jw family told us they can not work with us anymore. The heartless and cold way that they can burn family bonds and memories and 3 generations of working together makes me feel soo angry and sad i cant put it into words. I just feel so powerless against them. Thankyou for representing us tomorrow.

  • August 21, 2014 at 5:36 pm
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    Patrice –
    It is clear that you are still being affected by the ‘undue influence’ that Watchtower had on you.
    Please do not criticise yourself, you did the right thing by leaving. You may have lost your ‘hope’ according to Watchtower lies. They blackmail you into believing that unless you return, you and all your offspring will die at Armageddon! Please do not believe this. God has appointed his Son to be the judge. Put your faith in him, and him alone, if you must put your faith in anything.
    We have all been strongly influenced by this deceptive cult, I just hope that John’s input at this conference will help in driving another nail into Watchtower’s coffin.
    Of course, this weekend they are all rejoicing at their various conventions. Belshazzar’s feast comes to mind!
    The writing could well be on the wall!

  • August 22, 2014 at 8:31 am
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    It’s nice to see Steven Hassan is doing some workshops to help victims of cult abuse. I would have loved to attend.

    I am going to the meet up in Vauxhall though so we can catch up with some who did get invited and have some feedback.

    Kate xx

  • August 22, 2014 at 10:01 pm
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    Best wishes to the conference and another step toward education and the ending of ignorance, the enemy of true freedom and knowledge.

    @Patrice. My heart goes out to you and your grandchild. Your concern and love should not be met with guilt nor fear mongering. JW leaders spend an inordinate amount of time training their followers to spread fear of not being part of the cult. Just as was said before by others, they have no proof of their claims of being God’s chosen people.

    Your love and compassion are evident, please don’t let others who have been brainwashed to take away your peace. While your mother is no doubt sincere, she has seriously been misguided. I am no wise sage, just a man who has a wife with brachial plexus. I am saddened that there is not a new world for her, as I love her very much! However, I do my best to make the life she has as happy as possible and to love her. I hope and believe she fills complete and leads a full life. I know for certain that she is loved as much as I humanly can and she loves me as much as anyone is able.

    It is obvious from your comment that you love your grandchildren as much as is humanly possible. If you have people that love you and do not feel the need to manipulate you, you have true wealth in your life. Your grandchildren are lucky, not deprived. They have you.

  • August 23, 2014 at 3:45 am
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    @Patrice, there are several things to remark:
    1) Basically your mom says that God destroys a child based on the actions or beliefs of the mother or even grandmother; would you call that a God of Justice, a Loving God?
    2) How will Jehovah “put it right”? Will he undo the shunning you and your daughters have experienced?
    3) Your mom’s words are insulting towards your daughters, she basically says they have no thinking/morals
    of their own, they just follow you
    4) What *are* the odds of the daughters ‘following’ you? Even if you would wish them to act this “follow
    the monkey”-way; doesn’t you mom realize your daughters have their own experiences with respect to the organization?
    5) You did try to get back and look where that got you: still shunned, little/no help, still mantally ill. Who says this time is going to be any different?

    Your mom’s words are so wrong on so many levels that it’s hard to even have a complete overview of it all. Remember this: “knowledge = power”. It’s one of the tips of Cedars’ “10 Tips” video.

    John 17:3: “This means peace of mind, that they may know you, the Watchtower, and John Cedars’ blog whom they expelled.” *slightly paraphrased* ;-) Know its history, its teachings, its “love”…. (or lack of)…

    I wish you the best. Take care!

  • August 25, 2014 at 4:26 am
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    Just copied this from an online newspaper reporting on international assembly in Zimbabwe………..

    “The convention, which is the first of its kind, also saw the number of people attending the second day of the three-day convention going up to 74 694 from 68 916 who attended the first day of the religious jamboree which started on Friday.

    The convention organiser Effort Mugabe said the oldest of the baptismal candidates was 97 years old while the youngest was seven years old.

    Two other candidates were aged 85 years.

    The candidates were baptised after a six month to two year bible course.”

    SEVEN….!!!!!!!!! What on earth does a seven year old know.

    This is so disturbing to me. My grandaughter is seven.

    http://www.thestandard.co.zw/2014/08/24/1-558-baptised-jehovahs-witnesses-international-convention/#comment-88346

  • August 25, 2014 at 5:18 am
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    Patrice said :

    “SEVEN….!!!!!!!!! What on earth does a seven year old know.”

    According to following links :

    http://www.jw.org/en/jehovahs-witnesses/activities/publishing/videos-that-teach-children/

    “Ava, who gives her age as 8 years, 9 months, and 25 days, writes: “Caleb and his sister are very good at teaching kids.””

    The 7 years old baptismal candidate in Zimbabwe surely was suffering of “Caleb-mania”. A new “godsend” for the GB. At 7 years old such an easy pray to be brainwashed !

  • August 25, 2014 at 5:33 am
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    Are the Governing Body that smart to use cartoons or that evil? I go with evil.

  • August 25, 2014 at 5:42 am
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    I wonder if this Effort Mugabe is related to Robert Mugabe? I remember commenting on this convention on Zimbabwe and stating that Robert Mugabe would use this convention to spin his country’s political and social problems, and it looks like I was right!

    Do not be misled, Robert Mugabe has overseen crimes against humanity. He is a dictator.

    How like the WTBTS to support other dictators! This is sickening to me.

    The point you made about the seven year old is spot on, Patrice.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 25, 2014 at 5:50 am
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    Folks,

    Can’t find any evidence to show that Effort is related to Robert Mugabe, but nothing definitive.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 25, 2014 at 10:35 am
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    When I was seven I still believed in Santa, (But not talking
    Snakes, or talking Donkeys.)…Nothing surprises me anymore
    about these people, they are devoid of the “Natural Affection”
    that they accuse “Worldly People” of lacking.

    Their phoney avuncular tone when talking about family values,
    makes me want to vomit. When there’s a concerted attempt to
    lure immature children into baptism,( Something that they have
    formerly condemned.)…. It’s just a cynical ploy to increase
    figures, and give the impression that they have God’s backing,
    It speaks for itself, that it’s a desperation measure.

    However in a few years time,( If they last that long), it will turn
    back on them. In my former congregation., family problems
    often concerned teenage children who were frustrated with the
    claustrophobic life they were forced to lead, being continually
    badgered by parents, and denied any contact, or experience
    outside the limited J,W, confines. Truthfully I have seen some
    of these youngsters, so frustrated , they were reduced to tears.

  • August 25, 2014 at 11:34 am
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    Ted, they will be their own undoing. They just need a little more time.

    Some teens are put under so much pressure to “conform”, or to live up to unrealistic expectations that they see suicide as their only way out.

    A lot of teens get turned off on God and religion because there is no balance in their lives.

    This undue influence is damaging in so many ways.

    I agree that seven is too young, their brains have not even developed to the stage of being capable of making such a life-long commitment. They are practically still babies. But then my 29 year old son, a mature man, is still my baby.

    A legal contract is not even binding until you have reached the age of majority at 18.

    Spiritual contracts are a matter of life and death.

  • August 25, 2014 at 12:50 pm
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    Imacountrygirl2

    Your son is very fortunate.

  • August 28, 2014 at 12:51 am
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    hey Big Jim,

    your comparisons imply that what the Watchtower Society says is what God would say to us, as if they’d be somehow his mediator. Are you such a good watchtower drone? Then you shouldn’t even be here on this side arguing with the dreaded “apostates”.

    But by doing this you obviously decided for yourself that the Watchtower’s requirement ‘not to argue with “apostates”‘ is undue influence and you won’t obey it. So what’s your point again?

    • August 28, 2014 at 1:10 am
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      I doubt that we’ll hear from Big Jim again. Dozens of JW apologists appear briefly on this and other ex JW sites. They imagine that they can demonstrate that there is some truth in JW TRUTH. That is so clearly a hopeless mission.

      Big Jim’s point about WT influence being as ‘due’ as influencing children to behave considerately and sensibly at school or carefully when crossing the road was so patently ridiculous, unless, of course you genuinely believe that God is about to execute at Armageddon the entire human population who do not live their lives according to the ever changing and crazy (and in the case of blood transfusion, murderous) edicts of a bunch of self appointed control freaks in New York.

      I have no evidence, but I imagine that these JW drones, having exposed their tragic position on this and other sites, retreat to the Kingdom Hall whereby to try and desperately convince themselves that Jehovah loves WT mag pushers and hates everyone else. At least, by coming on this site, Big Jim shows he is willing to defy his ‘divinely appointed’ controllers.

      Maybe he will start thinking. And thinking and being a JW are incompatible.

      Best wishes BigJim. Here’s to your escape from JW bondage.

  • August 28, 2014 at 3:01 am
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    WOW 359 baptized at Twickenham. That is almost one a day coming into the organisation from that area. Jehovah is speeding up the work (not). At this rate the new system will never come because we are apparently waiting on Gods patience, because he does’nt want any to be destroyed. I look forward to the yearbook telling us how many were baptized worldwide. 359 is not that many, however if you write it like this 359!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It looks more. I wonder how many exclamation marks the WTBTS will use to make it look LOADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • August 28, 2014 at 6:53 am
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    Folks,

    This conference is how you grind down the dominance of the GB over these unfortunate individuals like dear Big Jim.

    They are not evil people, they are misled people.

    As you know, I’m one of those Atheists, and so I view all religion and thoughts of deities with respect, but I don’t believe in them.

    However, I am not going to try to convert people, don’t worry!

    No, these JW Apologists, even the bully boys from WT HQ, are misled people. Now, that doesn’t mean that they are blameless, but it does mean that we must show compassion to them. After all, were we not like them in our pasts?

    Although I do not believe that Jesus was resurrected, I still retain a very high respect for his teachings, which when followed humbly, have had good effects for humanity.

    This conference is reaching out to the wider community. It is engaging with experts in other, related fields. It can only benefit our cause, not harm it.

    We want to recconect the JWs with their fellow human beings in society. We want to free them from the devastating undue influence the WTBTS has over them.

    Reading the life histories of some of our fellow posters has stiffened my resolve still further. It is outrageous that you all have had to suffer so. It is immoral to treat fellow human beings the way the WTBTS does, and even more terribly, its cult followers. The very ones who have harmed you.

    Thank you all for the courage to share your experiences. It is truly humbling to discover that you all have such love for other people that you have decided to help others who are still in thrall to the WTBTS. That, in my opinion, demonstrates that you are good people.

    If Jesus IS in Heaven now, then I am certain that he would see your compassion as a fitting way to honour him.

    Big Jim and others have already broken the taboo of visiting sites such as John’s. They have further wavered into commenting and engaging in debate with us. Some of the pro WT commenters are WT HQ employees, but most are rank and file Witnesses as most of us were. These are the people we need to reach! So, it’s great news when we get pro WT comments, despite the unpleasant comments sometimes.

    I hope that all of them wake from their indoctrination and set themselves free.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

  • August 28, 2014 at 12:29 pm
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    Sorry if this is off-topic (actually I considered where to put this comment and it seemed to ON-topic on all recent posts!)

    Did anyone see the ‘Witness to Murder’ documentary? What a horrific story! I feel for her friends wishing they could have done something… And elders being led by spirit?? Yeah right!

    I think there are a couple of details wrong/missing (more than a few actually, most minor though). But anyway, does anyone know if a woman is free to remarry in case the husband is disfellowshipped for apostasy? I get that impression from the story. Was it a policy back then, or it still is, or did these elders rule this way but it was not policy?

  • August 28, 2014 at 3:16 pm
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    Hi Gareth. I watched that video too and I didn’t see why the wife was able to remarry. It sounded like the husband was disfellowshipped but it never said why. If anybody is wondering where to watch that show it was a link that Dallas Canada had on his Youtube channel.

  • August 29, 2014 at 6:50 am
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    Folks,

    The Ashya King tragedy in the UK is yet another example of the undue influence of the WTBTS.

    This little boy of 5 has been taken out of the hospital by his JW family and they have fled to France.

    This poor little boy has a brain tumour and he is going to die if he is not returned to medical care by tonight.

    Please check out the story on the UK news outlets.

    My heart goes out to the entire King family over this tragic event. It is only undue influence that could have led a loving family to remove their child from ongoing, specialist care and flee across the English Channel to France.

    I hope that this situation is resolved with little Ashya getting the medical care he so desperately needs.

    Peace be with you

    Excelsior!

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