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re judiciary hearings: not all are for disfellowshipping offences, are they?
I disagree: Rev.7–12 tribes=remnant; jesus mediator for only remnant; israel of God is only remnant. OS are not gentile Christians; “annointed” are known, are special; bible is inerrant; Bible miracles are real, not just stories; life on earth can be eternal;
elder decisions have real importance, even outside their jurisdiction; God communicates now; Financial announcements are truthful, transparent. Local projects, finances should be voted on but not discussed, posted prior on board.
Invitation for memorial should blanket territory, welcome all comers, regardless of status, (rent sports venues to make room for all.)
note: many memorial partakers do so at home, and/or do not pretend to be in the “wt anointed” category.
I disagree that we have to put in time each month just to prove how spiritual we are. Does Jehovah care how many hours I put each month? When we talk about the things the apostles have preached and where they preach I noticed that they didn’t have to report time each month or report how many publications were placed.
I also don’t agree completely with all the things I had to do to get.baptized. how come the Ethiopian eunuch didn’t have to go through a Bible study like I did. He said ” look a body of water. What prevents me from getting baptized? ” how come the GB kept changing the baptism questions? That makes me wonder if mine and others baptism is considered to be valid to Jehovah.
When I had my Bible study I was using the wt publications more than the Bible it’s self. I don’t know what happens when a person wants a Bible study using strictly the Bible without having to use the wt publications. I don’t even know if the org would consider a person’s Bible study to be invalid simply because they refused to study out of the wt publications.
I also have issues about the watchtowers policy on illegal immigrants and the number of things they are not allowed to do in Jehovah’s organization. I believe they are limiting their ability to freely worship, and therefore being discriminatory. The fact that predators are allowed to hold positions and immigrants are not is appalling to me. This policy also allows elder bodies who are close minded or discriminatory to further abuse members who happen to be illegal, regardless of the circumstances that brought them to that country…
I am not and have never been illegal, however I have seen the damage done to these poor people, who normally are illegal simply out of circumstance. This policy absolutely disgusts me and I believe it is overlooked. Many people suffer silently under this policy.
“I also have issues about the watchtowers policy on (“illegal”) immigrants and the number of things they are not allowed to do” – I agree! If every other criminal activity is allowed and overlooked than why not Federal immigration crimes?
I left unchecked all the stuff I’m undecided about or are not either or issues.
For example: “Apostates are mentally ill” Some apostate comments on line do seem to indicate extreme bitterness and hate which I classify as mentally ill but this can also apply to some active JW members. If you consistently post crazy stuff on line, whether you are JW or “Apostate”, well, I’m going to think you are crazy. Since I seem to be crossing the line into apostate thinking the question is am I mentally ill? Maybe, but not because I think independently. Am I delusional in this regards? depends on who you ask.
“Witnesses who leave are to be shunned” I guess it depends on why they leave. If they leave because they are living a life of drugs and prostitution or other crimes or gross immorality then I don’t want them around my kids. But thats true whether you were ever a witness or not.
“Two witness rule” is scriptural. A friends ex-wife admitted to the whole extended family that she lied about his molestation of their kids years ago just to get child custody. He was innocent but it ruined his life. The elders rightly did not disfellowship him back them.
Now if my kid says you molested them be very afraid because before I call the elders I will call the police. Irregardless of what the elders decide based on the Bible I will have you completely through a criminal investigation. I don’t care who you are.
“Magical Toys” Its a conscience matter. Not an either or deal. Everyone draws the line differently. I’m more conservative than some and not conservative enough for others in this area. I personally hate these first person video games full of occult and violence but know elders who have them in their homes. I know people who are bothered by fairy tales. What if we replace Sparlock with Magic Pony? Is that better? Maybe I better cancel that trip to Disney Land. We are off to see the Wizard on this one aren’t we?
“Treatment of Women in Organization” I’m a woman and I don’t feel the organization has mistreated me. I do feel that individuals have mistreated me. There is a mythology that domestic abuse only happens in the world and that the elders would never allow it to happen. The reality is that it does happen in the congregation and that the elders really can’t do anything to stop it. Once that is understood victimhood stops. I accept responsibility for what I allow in my life. Submission is voluntary. Sometimes I choose not to. No one forces me because scripturally no one can. Not all individuals understand this. Its a complex issue.
“Time Line Prophesies” Its changed so many times that for me its become completely irrelevant. Its down to “What ever Jehovah decides, I’m OK with.” Will it happen tomorrow? We don’t know. Will it happen sometime after I’m dead? Maybe. What ever God decides I’m OK. Is the WT right? I don’t know. Odds are eventually they will get it right sooner or later. Is it from God? Don’t know. And I don’t care because it doesn’t really matter. What matters is my relationship with God.
“Refusal to accept aspects of evolutionary theory?” Which aspects? This question is too vague.
Paganism. It depends on how blatantly pagan. Really, Easter is one of the most Blatantly Pagan “Christian” holidays out there. Mom calls me on every birthday but we don’t do the cake and candles. I don’t have a problem with the principle as much as the reasonable execution. So if I celebrate the return of the sun with festive gifts and decorating or celebrate the rites of spring with all the pagan trappings am I still a Christian? Arguably not. Is there a difference in birthdays and various anniversaries? Is it all a matter of trappings? Still thinking about it.
Reporting hours in service. Statistics are cool. No one can really force you to report. Does it make me a “Christian” if I do or don’t? No. Its just what we do.
Good survey! Perhaps next year you should include a statement on marriage to non-JWs since it’s a God-given right that, if exercised, will get a person ‘marked,’ publicly humiliated, and shunned without being disfellowshipped. I didn’t vote on the “two witnesses” issue because it is problematic and I have to think about it some more. I will say, however, that although the principle is scriptural and sound, it seems completely irrelevant when it involves sin that is committed in secret. For these special circumstances, Jewish high priests had the use of the oracular Urim and Thummim to weigh in on their decisions. JWs are totally out of their territory when they try to recreate parts of the Mosaic Law outside of its religious and historical context.
Anonymouse wrote on April 16, 2013 at 6:11 pm:
“For example: “Apostates are mentally ill” Some apostate comments on line do seem to indicate extreme bitterness and hate which I classify as mentally ill but this can also apply to some active JW members”
I’ve learned that many of these so called “apostates” are very angry but upon further research have a solid experiencial basis in crime or traumatic loss related to their time involved with Jehovah’s Witnesses and are not simply screwballs or fanatics as they have been made out to be!
Well, yes! The mentally Ill are the lowest and scum of the earth according to that organization and the most opportune of scapegoats and whipping persons and always have been since they have also always been beaten due to the paradigms and stigmatic bigotry, inneffective treatment and provisions of society at large so have very little internal defense mechanisms and in the western cultures, specifically the US..virtually no external defensive structure in terms of the law to protect them. How absolutely convenient! So where did they go for hope and help? The mind raping, violent wolves!
It’s a statement of the Watchtower Society’s view of the mentally Ill. Just read the magazines and listen to the general speech at the Hall and see how the Elders deal with mentally Ill people preferring to simply routinely “revoke their invitation” (Ban them from the meetings) which is standard procedure and policy, rather than assisting them with their issues.
Of course, Pedophiles and sex offenders of every deviant nature are perfectly acceptable and well protected as we know but oh my! Don’t you dare have a disability of Mental or cognative nature in that organization or you are a rabbit with a foot in the snare!
Actually, I should renovate that assessment…”scum” always rises to the top…sludge stinky, festering and decomposing remains at the bottom of the sewer so I would say that The Governing Body sees the Mentally Ill as sludge and not scum!
Hi gents and ladies…
Some of your comments are outdated. For instance, an elder, or any brother, who has been accused of molestation, the police must be called in. Also, that person, if not arrested, cannot in any fashion be in any position of authority. On a different point, we count our time because Jehovah is an exact God and in the olden days, as we can see from the accounts in the Bible, Jehovah kept records even then. What’s the big deal? You should live for yourself and not try prove yourself to man…live for Jehovah and then think of this organization as just a legal entity to help get the preaching work done worldwide. Now in regard to children, Jesus taught the young children and shouldn’t we follow Jesus Christ’s example. In relation to the blood issue, what do you think of Acts 5:19…do you think you should pick and choose what we follow? Then, there was the point on what happens in a married couple’s bedroom, shouldn’t it stay private….of course! Why would you allow someone to get into your personal affairs? Now, they have done an update about what we do in the bedroom should stay private and not discussed. For instance, you might have a couple into oral sex…that’s fine but not to discuss such in an open matter…this is no one’s business. Now if you are single and you play with yourself, you really are defeating the purpose of keeping yourself from being enflamed…right? Again, why would you mention that? You have to just use some common sense…
Anyway, don’t let anyone take your “forever” away…and keep in mind, all of those in any church, including the Kingdom Halls, are not perfect. Follow your Bible and not man b/c half of them inside the JW church are trying to push the other half out… Read your Bible, understand the principles behind what the Witnesses tell us and then make sure you are following Christ. With so much corruption and craziness in the world today, we are living in the last days. Even if you feel 1914 is in error, you know we are close…and then that means you should prepare…spiritually. We are in a spiritual war…and if your sister, brother, dog, cat, etc. don’t want to help preach and teach as Jesus said to do, then I don’t and wouldn’t have much time to do with them or anyone who isn’t trying to follow Christ…I want to live…forever.
Thank you for sharing your survey…but I hope you find the truth in the Bible and make sure you are on Jesus’ side…because he said that anyone who is not with him, is automatically against him. You don’t let man, or woman, keep you from Jehovah’s universal promise: He will undo the works of Satan as well as Adam and Eve’s initial disobedience. See our earch was made for mankind to live here forever. If you have children, you would not let them run your house and, therefore, our Heavenly Father, is the same way. He did not and will not let two disobedient children, such as Adam and Eve, change his long-term plan. We will have Paradise restored here on earth. Oh, and one last thing: The number 144,000, who cares if it’s literal or not…I want to be here on earth playing with my dolphins, macaws, whales and elephants! I just know that each President has a cabinet…and Jesus has one too that will help him rule the earth from heaven. If someone says they’re annointed and they’re lieing…oh well, that’s their lie and that’s one issue that they’ll have to take up with Jesus. You are going to see some who said they were annointed here on earth..b/c they lied… Don’t worry about it…move on with your life and get into the meat of the Bible…and ask Jehovah’s holy spirit to help you understand…ok? :=)
Take care!
Hi Jackee, that was a great comment and those are my sentiments also. I am a gay man and virtually the most ostracised of Jehovah’s Witnesses. I love how I was made even though I am confronted with so much hate. Nevertheless…
I wanted to share the following comment I found in an internet search as something I can also relate to:
“I am a baptised, third generation Jehovah’s Witness, with family members in Bethel, field ministry pioneers, elders, territorial circuit overseer work etc etc.
Imagine as a young child you are siting with your parents in a congregation, quiet and attentive, and across the microphone comes the words that you are loathsome, evil, monstrous, detestable, a pervert, degraded, substandard. And then the whole audience applauds about how repulsive and abhorrent you are, and they sing a song and finish with prayer that you will be like them. Imagine you’re at social gathering, cinemas, or bar-b-que and all your close friends of different ages whispering/ talking under their breath to one another obscenities and making jokes about people like you.
And when you’re 14 yo your own younger 13 yo fleshly sister is told at a convention by a beautiful and intelligent married travelling pioneer sister (a negress as she liked to be known) from your congregation, [where she’d earlier only just been on the platform in front of 1000’s relaying her experiences to the speaker], that your brother is a little poofter-pansy. In turn your sister announces it to you as a respected opinion.
I just couldn’t believe it and still remember that to this day. Why was I different to anyone else, what had I done, were people spitefully jealous of something, is this what all my respectable Christian brothers and sisters thought about me.
Then you excitedly await the release of new modern scriptural literature from the Organisation only to find pictures portraying gay people as dysfunctional, drug addicts, alcoholics, in dark city alley’s. Any and all reference material – solely the Organisations in your household – sterotypes a depiction of despair and hopelessness, and in depraved company and circumstance. You begin to realise all the combined material in public talks and literature references hetrosexualism, and predominantly associates gay people with pedophilia, though you yourself are in your early teens. You are told there is no other way of life, why would you go anywhere else for direction and accurate knowledge.
You’ve already accepted you should focus on ministering, not have a tertiary education, and not be caught up with unbelievers. Meanwhile imagine being at school and being told you are a Jehovah’s Witness poofter and get bashed up, by bullying girls, and taunted and abused by all. You only “turn the other cheek”, because that what Jesus did, and never tell your parents so as not to unnecessarily distress them.
Now substitute the word gay for Black or Jew – remind you of anything familiar: genocide perhaps.
That’s why there is a gay community, to provide shelter/ refuge and encouragement from the persecution that comes from where it shouldn’t.
I meant to add that experience/ comment I found was just an extract too.
I also wanted to say that in the answer choices to the questions, on a couple of occasions I entered a ‘tick’ and voted but changed my mind on further thought and couldn’t go back to fix it. This wouldn’t help the final findings of the survey to be entirely accurate. I hope you use this information wisely.
I found that the questions were not actually wt teachings. The questions concerning conscience matters, which most were, arr slanted to be portrayed as set in stone teachings. I would like the questions to include: do you think its a conscience matter in these instances. Thanks cedars good job.
In my hall there is a young brother with downes syndrome. That young brother is treated with care and respect by all in the congregation especially elders. They take extra care with him because unfortunatly he does not havr a father. He is even given responsibilities such as handling microphones. The only cases i know of where persons are banne from meetings are instances where the person has made threats toward the members of the congregation. The ill treatment of mentaly ill or chalenged persons is not a wt teaching nor is it acceptable in the congregation.
“The only cases i know of where persons are banne from meetings are instances where the person has made threats toward the members of the congregation. The ill treatment of mentaly ill or chalenged persons is not a wt teaching nor is it acceptable in the congregation”
Here’s Milo speaking on behalf of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society again!
He’s only permitted to do that because that’s his assignment and he’s authorized!
When was the last time anyone has seen a person in the congregation who was profoundly Mentally Ill? And demonstrating symptoms? I personally watched Elders in San Diego escort what would appear to be homeless or Mentally Ill people out of the Kingdom Hall and off the property as a matter of practice by appearance alone back in the early 90’s when they came in or even seated themselves for the meeting…It is simply not permitted in that organization and I know exactly what I am talking about both as somebody who was part of that organization and who spent a substantial part of my life working in and around Health Care and Human and Mental Health services and advocacy…contempt and disdain for the Mentally Ill is permeated throughout every square inch of every Kingdom Hall and oozes out every crack and orifice, from every publication and is in the spirit of the air and it is absolutely the practice to remove emotionally disabled people by “revoking their implied invitation” on a regular basis…