On Thursday, September 24, JWsurvey reproduced a Watchtower letter that had been leaked by a bethel insider. Dated October 4, 2015, the letter advised (or WILL advise) congregations of the announcements that are to be made at Saturday’s annual meeting.
The most dramatic announcement was arguably the scrapping of the much-loved Theocratic Ministry School in favor of a session of preaching presentations.
Another eyebrow-raiser was the news that magazine printing is being further reduced, with public editions of the Watchtower and Awake! to be printed once every two months from January onward.
Within 48 hours of the letter being leaked, this website received nearly 23,000 visits. Interest in the letter was substantial, and the contents were mulled over by the ex-Jehovah’s Witness community in various corners of social media.
Unsurprisingly, given the sensitive nature of the letter, some suggested it might be a hoax. I even briefly pondered myself whether I might be on the receiving end of an extremely elaborate prank designed to undermine this website’s credibility.
But any doubts as to the letter’s authenticity were put to bed today when JWsurvey’s webmaster, John Hoyle, received an email from our hosting company notifying us of an email from Watchtower’s legal department. Apparently, as was the case with the notorious October 1st 2012 child abuse letter, Watchtower’s lawyers consider the leaked letter copyrighted material, and have demanded it be taken down from our pages.
Our web hosting company, seeking to have the matter resolved quickly, advised us of two options: (1) to take the disputed material down, or (2) to issue a counter notification. Since the letter is now freely available elsewhere online, and our work in disseminating it is now effectively done, we have no interest in becoming embroiled in a legal scrap with Watchtower over whether the letter should be on our pages or not.
If anything I am grateful to Watchtower, and specifically its legal department, for once more shooting themselves in the foot so spectacularly. We had a similar situation only 9 months ago regarding Tony Morris and his tight pants fixation, and it seems lessons have not been learned.
By issuing a DMCA complaint, Watchtower has decisively claimed authorship of the letter. And by forcing us to take it down they have demonstrated that (1) they are embarrassed, and (2) they are completely clueless as to how the internet works. Once information is distributed on such a scale it cannot be undistributed.
The whole debacle is yet further proof that Watchtower, like any cult, is struggling to come to terms with the information age. The Governing Body and their men in suits assume the internet can be brought to heel, and that everyone who runs a JW-related website will play by their rules.
But even workers within bethel walls are starting to wake up and find their voice. With each fresh leak the Governing Body’s grip on power is slipping, and with each attempted cover-up there is further proof that this hapless organization is far from the worthy adversary many would assume.
For obvious reasons the letter in question is no longer available on these pages, but I am confident a copy can easily be traced with some persistent searching on Google. The Reddit Ex-JW community would also be a useful place to look.
Further reading…
- Watchtower in crisis: Frustration grows at bethel as Governing Body focuses everything on Warwick
- Theocratic Ministry School GONE as 2015 Annual Meeting announcements leaked in advance
- More downsizing on the way? Multiple sources report bethel letter warning of further cuts
- Is Watchtower imploding? 10 reasons why the end could be nigh
- JWsurvey articles on Warwick
- JWsurvey articles on downsizing
I have just been to see my Doctor and I spilled out all my feelings to her about being in this organization all my life and how my own children and husband would behave if I walked away from it I told her everything and ended up using half a box of her tissues…I told her how I am heartsick at the amazing opportunities I have passed up in my life because of it…and that at 57 and truly loving my family above all else that I feel its too late for me after a lifetime of lies…she was about half my age and was truly wonderful…she listened and gave gentle advice…and after explaining the fading avenue of leaving she said I have to at the same time construct a life outside for myself..discreetly…she also dignosed depression in my case which she said was probably due to my circumstances…so if I have offended anyone with my comments on here in the past I sincerely apologise…I seem to divide my emotions between dispair/anger/desperation/gloom/hope…etc etc…its like a roller-coaster …. this lovely oh so young Doctor has arranged for me to see a counsellor…I feel so much better just from talking to her…I just feel a real hatred for these men who are in control of my life…who do they think they are?….I hope they are proud of the depressed sad unhappy life they have left me with…and I am not the only one there are sooooo many like me….sorry to go on…thanks for this site
@idontknowwhattodo
The Watchtower has a culdesac point of view. Once your in there you can only travel so far in a straight line before you are forced to turn round, It’s a dead end. As painful as it is personally there are many who are doing the same (turning around). When you pass someone on your way out on their way in explain where you’ve been.
As regards belief that’s a personal story, but if there’s one thing about it you’ll never be dogmatic, so for that Watchtower I thank you :-)
Idontknowwhattodo, I have so much respect for you. What a brave, and believing-in-better thing to do: to go to your doctor and speak your reality, despite all the fear and nervousness you must have felt. I am so glad you met a good doctor — there really are so many of them out there.
You know what? You’re on your way. You can do this, you can fade, and that way you’ll still have your dear family and friends. Believe or not, but you really are strong. And in helping yourself you’re going to help others.
Oh, well done, dear lady. You’ve made your choice, and now you’re going to be on an amazing, individual adventure. Take it day by day; that’s all — one day at a time. Lots of respect! :)
Idontknowwhattodo, I don’t think you have anything to apologize for. I have read all your posts. I am glad you went to that doctor and she was right about making a life outside of the organization. If only we hadn’t found out about all the lies. But I am glad I found out about all the lies. When it finally dawned on me that the “truth” was all lies, the dark cloud that had been over my head all those 50 years I was in “it”, lifted.
Yes, I no longer have any of those “friends” from the Kingdom Hall but if they were really friends of mine, they would have asked me why I stopped going to meetings and they would have listened to me but none of them have done that so that tells me that I didn’t lose any friends because they were never my friends in the first place. You can’t mourn a loss of a friend if they weren’t a friend in the first place. Thankfully I still have one of my daughters who I can still talk to and the world is much friendlier than we were taught when we “believed” in the “truth” so if you can make a life outside the Organization, that is what you should do.
My husband confirmed that they gave a marking talk about me a couple months ago and I am being shunned because of it. According to the Organized book, they were supposed to admonish me again and again about “disorderly” conduct before giving a talk like that but they never admonished me about any disorderly conduct and so that is making my husband quite angry with them but of course, he thinks it’s just rogue elders. I think it’s orders from the Society but he won’t believe me.
They won’t use a person’s name in the talk so they can’t be sued for slander so what they do is describe the person so everybody knows exactly who they are talking about and slander them that way. That confirmed to me even more that the Watchtower is a cult and I don’t want anybody else to get involved in a cult like that that would do that to a person who found out about the lies and decided not to support them anymore.
Please know that our thoughts and good wishes are with you. We are all going through this hell together and we are all here to support each other and we are all so glad for this site to help each other. Thanks Lloyd!!!
Anonymous, your point about ‘marking’ struck home to me because that is what happened within my family. A sisters son – non witness and my daughter – witness got pregnant. They married. Marking talk given for sister because she staged wedding…. no names given but the whole scenario was dragged out at hall so everyone knew. I wasn’t marked but fell under the same judgement so I have spent nearly two years without my ‘so called’ friends. Two years of coming home from work and not seeing another soul. No invites to hang out, go camping, go for coffee. Now my daughter is back everyone wants to be friends again. Makes me sick. Friendship is conditional at the hall and where is the real love in that?
Maybe you can make some cyber friends here Tara. We all have a lot in common.
I’d like that :) Having friends who have been through the same thing or really understand why you still don’t want to do certain things because …. well you have been conditioned not to, makes it easier. Living where I am makes it hard because everyone knows everyone else within a four hour drive – or so it seems. But I like you lot on here :) most of you are daft and I like that but most of all there is compassion and empathy for each other. Big hugs my new cyber friends x
@Idontknowwhattodo . YOU ARE A BEAUTIFUL LADY on the INSIDE & I SUSPECT on the OUTSIDE as well !! .. Your Husband & Children are Very Lucky to have someone SO CARING, KIND & UNDERSTANDING !! …. So the SEVEN STUPID MENTAL MIDGETS can …’BOG OFF’!! That is a NEW THEOCRATIC PHRASE ??
@idontknowhatodo It may not be the moment yet, but in the future I would highly recommend going back to college online, you’re never too old to broaden horizons. You’re obviously adept at expressing yourself in writing which is 90% of the online coursework. It would do wonders for you to concentrate on something you were passionate about and to discover new passions. I can’t imagine where I might be now if I’d never gone on to college.
Well done! You are brave lady for doing what you have done. The first step is always being able to talk to someone. We all know that, that is something you cannot do in the hall. They say you can and how loving and kind they are but that is false. Talking to your Dr. and getting much needed help is a huge step on your road to recovery. As you begin to feel stronger emotionally you will then be able to look at your next step and so on. I was on medication for such a long time and this week I actually spoke to a professional too although it was impromptu it helped. You have friends here who you can really talk to because we don’t judge you, because we are all in the same boat. You are a wonderful kind caring person and although we do not know each other on here we have found a safe haven. Lloyd may not have thought his site would ever have the effect it has on individuals but it is giving many of us the strength we need to keep going. Love and hugs xxxx
I understand completely what your going through. Last month I wrote my letter to the elders. It was a though decision which I didn’t make overnight, but contemplated on over a period of 3 years.
Although i am an adult, mother of a son in my fourties, I was nervous of informing my mother and siblings about my decision.
But living a lie is the cruelest thing you can do to yourself and your children.
I still hope and pray that they will someday see that this organisation is not what they think of it.
Till then I will have to live with being out of their lives.
Be patient with yourself and allow yourself to gradually get the strenght to losen the strings you’ve been so thightly attached on for years.
We’re here for you. So anytime you panic dont’t hesitate to come to this platform.
Idontknowhatodo, it is so beautiful to hear you express yourself and very heartwarming that you actually wanted to apologise for offending anybody. Certainly not in my book and I am sure not in anybody else’s either.
I am so pleased that you went and sought professional help. You know I am 60 and can understand a little of how you must be feeling. It is all the time wasted and unfulfilled dreams that get to you and make you angry and sad. So sorry that you are suffering from depression. Maybe your husband might actually start taking notice of his dear wife’s emotional wellbeing from now on. We are here as all those suffering in a similar way can understand also how you feel. Take care. You are very brave.
@Idontknowwhattodo: There is no need to apologise. Many of the folks here are “walking wounded” because of WT policy. Those of us here who have spent a long time in recovery have strong shoulders. Those shoulders are there for you.
I don’t know where you stand on the issue of actually believing in a god or Creator but here goes with my comment to you….
Imagine Jehovah looking down at night whilst you are asleep…the great Farmer…there in this wooden frame is the product of his labour, You. He smiles sweetly at his produce…and then writes at the end of the bed..
“Fragile Goods…. Handle with Care”
Sleep well tonight, and believe in UNconditional love.
Those naughty gb cult club members no longer have comely feet because they have shot themselves so many times now.Is it not evident the blind are leading the daft.Oh dear confession time …One of my best friends still in love with the whole outfit and a believer.She and me nearly fell out yesterday. How can I destroy her delusions ? This is the hardest dilemma I feel morally obligated to say something to help her awaken but dont want to be the messenger.Then I had a thought if I just mentioned one little corruption i could think of.Of course I could not think of one. The points of contention kept coming and coming.And that is where i think we are folks. There is so much rot coming out this org it fails on many levels. In fact the whole head is in a diseased condition. Better not look in the mirror gb boys because you wont be singing “Oh you beautiful doll” insert “Troll”. When i read some of the comments there is real pain and anger.Maybe just maybe when the bethelite chuckouts are in the real world we will be the ones to guide them through because we have already been rejected and have gained strength ruthlee/ruthless
I was watching the morning worship video a few days ago. Tony Morris was discussing the subject of obedience and and to the faithful slave. Hear for yourself the delusion and the arrogance.
My point is this, if Christ has not decided who’ll be appointed over all the belongings why describe yourself now as faithful and discreet?, and as Geoffrey Jackson said before the commission ‘it would be arrogant to say we are the only ones who speak for God’ one mouth two voices.
Geoffrey Jackson, most likely unknowingly freed many captives with those words of truth. If only he would continue Gods work by continuing to drop those small but potent morsels. Remember Jesus words at John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke again to them, saying: “I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will by no means walk in darkness, but will possess the light”
to the hipocratical religious leaders verse 14
“You judge according to the flesh; I do not judge any man at all.”
And we’ve all experienced verse 31-32
“Then Jesus went on to say to the Jews (not a jew, but former JW) who had believed him: “If you remain in my word, you are really my disciples, 32 and you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.”
There is only one mediator not seven between God and man.
‘The faithful slave is not dogmatic’. To identify yourself with the term faithful slave (at this time) is dogmatic! http://tv.jw.org/#video/VODProgramsEvents/pub-jwbmw_201509_1_VIDEO
@Jake . I watched Anthony Morris Basically contradict himself saying the F&D Slave is NOT DOGMATIC … WHAT a FRIGGING JOKE!! If anyone EVEN Says a Dicky Bird(English Terminology ) against the teachings & interpretations of TONY & ‘THE MOB’ you will be SHUNNED , HUNG,DRAWN & QUARTERED(English Pirate Terminology ) !!
Sorry Jake, I could not help focusing my attention on the impeccable pale blue satin striped tie with the matching silk handkerchief. My goodness. What a distraction and also what expensive taste.
As a retired LEO, my first opinion and ever growing ‘reasonable suspicion’, as I watched was/is -“This civilian is DUI” or more correctly, “DAD”- drunk and disorderly. LOL
Blood shot eyes, blurred speech, difficulty or dullness in cognitive function. Had I met this person in my official capacity I would have required a sobriety test. Also, having been trained in detecting deception and more importantly, years of experience in “interviews”. I can only say ‘wow, you WT guys probably need to go back to none DTV and move this guy back from the camera a bit.’ If anyone else out there spotted the OBVIOUS ‘tells’ at 4:00,4:37, 5:49, 6:07, and 7:25-7:35,(and others, throughout) please confirm my observations. I know what I’ve seen, but would like a corroboration. I can elaborate, if you’d like.
I’ll go ahead and post my opinion/observations and check back for corroboration. First a ‘constant’ of what constitutes truth for Mr. Morris,must be established. This will aid us in detecting a variance from the ‘constant’ along with other potential “tells” (body language) that would denote deception. Mr. Morris gives us several examples of his ‘CONSTANT’ (his truth) 1) :01-:08 – words “Blessing and Obedience” are truth. He has a strong emotional tie to the word “obedience” – note 2:57, 3:16 & 7:30 in his concluding remarks.
2) When reading scripture i.e. :21-forward (with some interesting exceptions) and when quoting the words of others, i.e. – in discussion of “Dogma” approx. 4:30.
3)Mr. Morris has strong feelings about ‘Apostates’ – 4:45 – truth (again for him) and at this approx. point, cognitively gets on a ‘stump speech’ about such.
These clips are helpful to see Mr. Morris locked eyes on the camera/audience without any of the deceptive ‘tells’ to be discussed forthwith.
DECEPTION; Mr. Morris displays several ‘tells’ when deceptive,deflective or disdaining. Ones, most people will be able to readily identify. A) Hard or extended blink, double blink, double hard blink. B) Head ‘bob’. C) ‘Self check’ pause. D)Obvious change of language to an expression of disdain.E)Inappropriate use of humor F)General discomfort when addressing a subject (he know is deceitful).G)Bold face lie. I’ll attempt to keep my opinions limited on these observations and my conclusion concise. Times noted are ‘close’ but can be approx. – 2:02 – reading scripture- “governing body”- first example of a deceptive blink. 3:19- “once decrees sent out” – self check pause, double blink – deception and thinking ahead “will this ‘fit’ my story?”. 3:30 – inappropriate use of humor to deceive or deflect. 3:43 – when speaking of “original language of ‘decrees’ – deceitful hard blink- this obviously ties with “decisions = decrees” -forthwith.
3:50 – Mr. Morris begins a discussion on Dogmata or Dogma at this point, this is where the deception becomes extremely obvious. Mr. Morris changes his entire body language and speaking style from succinct to uncomfortable and rambling. 4:00 – in regard to Dogma “definitely not what the faithful slave is guilty of” – HEAD BOB, HARD BLINK = deception. On my initial analysis this was the ‘aha’ moment. Here is his main ‘tell’.
4:37 -“others opinions might be justified” – head bob, hard blink. 5:00 – “headquarters” – deception here? Approx. 5:30- Mr.Morris begins reading scripture and whilst reading “who is faithful slave” – ‘tells’ on the word “slave”..more in my conclusion. Approx. 6:05 – Mr. Morris begins discussion on decisions of the FDS today. 6:09 -“faithful slave today” -double hard blink=deception. 6:13 “decisions are made collectively” – while looking dead on at camera- this is what is called a ‘bold faced’ lie.(look at his face) ‘This is MY ‘story’ and I’m sticking to it.’ Used to ‘convince’ you he telling truth, while completely opposite.
6:19 – “decisions, if you want to call it a decree” -ref. 3:43 – deceptive and/or strong emotional tie. 6:26 and 6:37 – Mr. Morris lists out different entities Branch Committee, etc, note his obvious change of expression when he uses the work “congregation”. In Mr. Morris conclusion – 7:25 – “increase day by day” – hard blink=deception. 7:32- “this is a theocracy” – hard blink= deception and finally “not a collection of man made decisions” – double hard blink = double deception. My opinion;
1) His ‘truth’ is absolute and uncompromising.
2)His sense of self is extremely autocratic/dictatorial. “this is a theocracy” = lie.
3)Obedience to him PERSONALLY is paramount. Thus his ‘tell’ on the word “slave” when reading MT 24:45. He does not, in any sense, view himself as a slave. His ‘decisions’ ‘decrees’ are to be OBEYED.
4) He has a ‘disdain’ for the “congregations”.
This man is exceedingly deceptive and potentially dangerous.
Above is my personal opinion.
Retired LE
Just watched the link Jake.NOW i have boiling blood!!!!! Oh well pride before a crash rl
Put it this way, a person goes for a job interview after which he tells his friends he has the job before he receives conformation, or he is invited to a meal and he takes the best seat.
‘Who really is’ seems to a indicate a future delusion.
Last thought to ponder today.As the squeeze gets tighter, do yo think the gb will insist on a public oath of allegiance to them to root out the apostates? Would this be the mark of the beast or just delusions of grandeur? If they did this i wonder what scripture they would twist? Also those of us who are fading would be put in a dilemma as we want truth and not be caught in a lie tricky situation eh? Any thoughts on this brave souls out there.I would hate to have my hand forced but won’t lie. rl
That would be the end game with me ruthlee…I will never do that…and I suppose I would have to take the consequences.
Thanks all who made a reply to my last post…GEM reduced me to tears…and though I no longer believe in God or The Divine…you said it with such beautiful kindness and compassion…you must be a lovely person….and my dream now is exactly that…to give and recieve unconditional love.
Thank you everyone.
Regarding: Will the Governing Body require a public oath of allegiance to the Watchtower organization: They already do. In 1985, the Governing Body changed the Watchtower baptism questions:
Baptismal questions from the Watchtower 1985 Jun 1 p.30:
(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses in association with God’s spirit-directed organization?
There is no longer any mention of the holy spirit and the person baptized pledges allegiance to the Watchtower organization.
Contrast the Watchtower baptism procedure with what is said at Matthew 28:19 “Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son and of the holy spirit”.
http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php
@ruthlee I like your line of reasoning ,But I think there is already an OATH or is that OAF of Allegiance …. It’s Called ‘ BAPTISM into an ORGANISATION !! The Second Baptismal Question which was inserted after 1985 ! Fortunately I was baptised before this date so my Baptism wasn’t into an Organisation !
But Ruth, I suppose the GB could introduce a THIRD Question ? Who Knows the GB will just call it NEW LIGHT & the Sheepie will LAP it up!
After looking at your comment, I checked and found out that the Governing Body also eliminated any reference to the holy spirit in their baptism questions in 1985. Perhaps some old light has come back as new light:
Joseph Rutherford, second president of the Watchtower, actually claimed that holy spirit was no longer needed as a Helper to the church, since Christ was now invisibly present and would direct the organization in person through his angels!
“With the coming of the Lord to his temple and the gathering together unto himself of the chosen ones (2 Thess. 2:1) the holy spirit would there cease to function as a paraclete or advocate for the church.” Preservation, Rutherford, 1932, p. 46.
Rather than having “holy spirit” directing things from afar, Rutherford taught that the angels, or ministering spirits, were now communicating directly with the organization.
As we can plainly see, the Governing Body is having great difficulty determining where the guidance from “ministering spirits” ends and the hallucinations begin.
http://freeminds.org/psych/activfor.htm
“Do not be grieving the Holy Spirit” Ephesians 4:30.
Hi ruthlee,
I think I would tell them that at my baptism I dedicated myself to God and Christ. That they have my allegiance and anything else would be idolatry. But if push comes to shove my answer is absolutely not because I won’t give them my integrity. I’m still active (but faded for all intents) and already been told by my own daughter that we will only have limited association. I wouldn’t give up my integrity for her I sure won’t for a group of admittedly uninspired men. Of note too is when you were baptized. Prior to 1984 the questions for baptism didn’t include the organization but those questions changed in1984.
Regards
@eyes opened . I AM HEARTENED on one hand by your comment that Your INTEGRITY is of UTMOST IMPORTANCE of being TRUE to Yourself ,BUT I AM SADDENED by your Daughter who is choosing to Limit Association with you, HER OWN MOTHER… This PROVES these 7 PYGMIES are NOTHING But a CULT!! … Sickening !! These 7 Midgets just want your MONEY,TIME & ENERGY to Build their LUXURY RETIREMENT HOME at WARWICK & All you Dear Lady only want your Daughters LOVE!! These are 7 CRUEL CONTROLLING MUPPETS!!!
Regarding “I wouldn’t give up my integrity … for a group of admittedly uninspired men.”
Particularly when a group of admittedly uninspired men say things like this:
“At that time, (when the future attack on God’s people begins) the lifesaving direction that we receive from Jehovah’s organization may not appear practical from a human standpoint. All of us must be ready to obey any instructions we may receive, whether these appear sound from a strategic or human standpoint or not.”
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/w20131115/seven-shepherds-eight-dukes/
Hear is a bit of irony. The announcement concerning the letter and video to be released Saturday @3pm. E.S.T. and then played Sunday was NOT to announced ahead of time the letter explicitly says to keep confidently till then. Getting harder and harder to keep the cat in the bag..even for the r&f.
That’s interesting. As capt. Jack Sparrow is want to say. Yet it was the first thing out of the brothers mouth for announcements last night. Hee hee hee
Hi pickled brain,
Thank you for your kind remarks. When people understand it takes some of the sting away. BTW my husband and I always enjoy your comments.
Regards
@eyesopened . Thank you & your Husband ! Glad you enjoy the comments. I think Satirical Laughter is a good anti-dote against the BARBARISM of these 7 MONSTERS!!!
Ohhh. He shouldn’t feel bad….I made.same “mistake “
In all seriousness, a wounded organization will not go down without deploying every tool in the toolbox. We have a long history of doubling down, rewriting and concealing facts
I remember when Ray F. left, almost immediately the smear campaign started and it came right from H.Q. Don’t be surprised at what measures will be instituted to stop the hemorrhaging.
Not sure what happened to last post. Maybe went to service desk instead.
In all seriousness though, a wounded organization will not go down without a fight.
We have a long history of doubling down, rewriting and concealing facts. I remember when Ray F. left, the smear campaign started and it came right from H.Q. don’t be surprised at what measures will be instituted to stop the hemorrhaging.
And….quite to the contrary, when Leo Greenlee left the G.B. in N.Y.C. not a peep.
That right there is sick sick sick. That man was the definition of pervert who deserved jail time. I’m convinced that he is one of the reasons the org fights so vehemently against releasing the names of pedophiles in their database. Along with Edward Chitty and even Theodore Jaracs was accused of molestation.
The fallout of a pedophile on the gb would be tremendous.
For not celebrating Halloween we have an awful lot of skeletons, demons, devil’s and real life monsters in our ever growing closet.
Lol I like you POW
This year I going to blow everyone’s mind by trickery treating as a j.w., scarey huh?
Will you be pushing a cart?
As for an oath or some such, it’s possible. Possibly a confidentiality claus making a person legally liable. They could, if they wished, by a show of hands ask the audience at a meeting wether they believe that God is directing the faithful and discreet slave or themselves to be a Jehovah Witness. . . .Always smart to have an answer at the ready.
Just think of the bigger movement and raise your hand. Definitely need people on the inside ready to state simple facts whenever anyone expresses doubts. In the meantime have a laugh on the JW writing department
http://youtu.be/6eo1O5qMaGU
That was hilarious but too close to the “Truth” for most!
I remember reading satire in a local newspaper and it was basically someone from Bethel who left and was writing about how the GB handles the 1914/607 debacle. I was rolling on the floor laughing my ass off! Good stuff!
Hi Jake this was the thread i was thinking about. I was baptised 1981 so feel it is valid. But i thought about a resolution in the kh and the sneaks taking a census would really force our hands (literally). A note to the gb spies on this site. I thought of this Before YOU and asked my friends advice because I dont trust you. for the record , if you do such a sneaky thing I will not raise my hand. ruthlee/ruthless.
Since the “society” knew about the leaked letter on this site, it is obvious someone at HQ monitors this site. I’m reasonably sure they would read the comments also ( out of curiosity if nothing else) so where is their conscience? How can one read of the pain, suffering and loss and be able to brush it off and sleep at night? (Who knows perhaps they are troubled also and don’t see a way out) Anyway I am moved by the plight of so many on this site and I too am grateful for this site as both a support system and an avenue of freedom.
I never thought of this before…cant they see the excruciating pain this cult is bringing to people…I know ones wh have not spoken to thier relatives for 30 years!!!… how can they read these posts and live with themselves…unless they are the brave whistleblowers!…. my mind is blown by the high control of this cult…mostly because I am an A level student…5 ‘A’ passes and yet my intelligent questioning mind never woke up and saw the truth…I truly had my critical thought subdued…I feel stupid!
I’m a long time lurker of this site and never posted before but I feel I just wanted to give you guys a heads up from a “friend.”
I can’t say too much because I know for a fact that “they” read message boards and forums, watch Youtube videos and comments for “apostate” materials and visit websites like this often – hoping to catch anyone they can find who is leaking info or spreading “apostate material” because there are more and more instances of moles. Finding these moles is getting harder and harder and thus, “they” have resorted to almost state level espionage-like tactics. Yes, if you are at Bethel, your IP has been traced at the minimum. So what I want to say:
Their mole hunt is heating up. Be careful. Consider using your own private mobile data network to post instead of internal WiFi or LAN connections at Bethel and at the kingdom halls. Do your own research on how to cover your internet tail.
The building site at Warwick – WOW! I was there during a meeting about safety. It was announced that this site will NOT be “environmentally friendly” due to “costs” and the fact that they will “leave it in Jehovah’s hands” to worry about chemicals, recycling and other environmental hazards! I could not believe it when I heard it with my own ears! The brother sitting next to me joked, “I guess Revelation 11:18 doesn’t apply to us” and he laughed it off. It made me sick to my stomach!
Their plan to get “worldly people” to visit their website has backfired incredibly. Most people do their own research and within the first 5 searches they will find what is really going on and how they use mind control to keep people inside their cult. Most worldly people don’t even visit the site! 99% of the site views are JWs downloading their study materials and old JWs looking for the JW broadcasting. Old people and technology! LOL
Their plan to brainwash young people is also failing thanks to the internet. What this means is within the next 7-10 years (if this cult makes it that far) they will have nobody to replace their ancient elders and servants. Their push to “appoint” elders at younger and younger ages is also failing but I will not go into that. I myself (less than 30) was recently visited for my “fine work and conduct” as an MS and they said they think I am ready to reach out for more. We all know what that means. Little do they know I am a proud apostate, biting my tongue for the sake of my family and parents who would subsequently disown me and shun me for all eternity.
I heard a “rumor” that Anonymous is now lighting a fire under this cult’s “leaders.” No private or public organization should be able to hide ANYTHING from the public, and that includes financial holdings and accounts! Transparency is coming, whether they like it or not. And when that comes to “light,” hold your nuts!
All that I can say is thank “YHWH” (or whatever the bleeeeeeep his name is) for the internet! The light is indeed getting brighter and brighter and shining on the cockroaches. Watch them scurry. After ** years in this cult, I enthusiastically await the collapse of ALL mind controlling cults!
* I want to clarify that by “Anonymous” I mean the hacktivist group Anonymous is lighting a fire under this cult’s leaders. I don’t think we will have to wait much longer before a wikileaks style data dump comes out and all the s— is spilled. And really guys, China is on to your s— there as well. Sneaking literature into the country is never a good thing. Do you even care that people’s lives are at risk? Oh, that’s right. You don’t care. The light is getting brighter brothers! LOL
Seriously!? They said that about environmental safety? I would think OSHA would be involved it was really bad…No?
No, sadly I am serious about this s— and it pisses me the hell off thinking back about it because at the time I was still under the mind control and well, like those still inside this cult, we accept and believe everything we do is for “Jehovah.” But it was still disturbing.
But to clarify something you said, the brother said they were “not environmentally ‘friendly’,” key word ‘friendly.’ There is a difference between that and ‘safety’ as you said. Its not like they were purposely dumping toxic waste or anything LOL but they made it very clear they were not concerned with recycling, green, energy conservation or anything that would add cost to the project. That was their bottom line. If it was cheaper to dump all the aluminum or metal in the container instead of separating and recycling, you know what they would do. And did.
Like I said, some brothers actually got a laugh out of it and said “yeah Jehovah will take care of that!” So now to find a recording of that would be incredible evidence. Anyone who was there should contact OSHA and the EPA.
“Reports are emerging through the Associated Press that the Watch Tower Society may face penalties over chemical waste that was buried many years ago near the Watchtower Farms complex in upstate New York.”
“The Times Herald-Record reports that several 55-gallon drums containing benzene, xylene, and other chemicals hazardous to human health have been unearthed. The drums were retrieved at three different sites across the 1,141 acre property, but the scale of the pollution and full scope of the clean-up operation is not yet known.”
http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/watch-tower-faces-clean-up-bill-for-ruining-the-earth
That is amazing. Sounds like a dodgy elcheapo worksite. Not how you would ever imagine a theocratic spiritual Christian one would be like. So pathetic.
I think the E.P.A. has an.anonymous hotline.
Leaving it in Jah’s hands is how we ended up in ridiculously molestation lawsuits. ..I think G.Jackson said it best…I would have thought someone would have called.
HI Actigall ur if you believe in god ,God bless you! If you dont, blessings from me .A great post. we need these reassurances thankyou so much ruthlee
Thank you! No, I can’t believe in a “god” at this point, at least not a “loving GOD,” for if he/she/it exists or existed then he/she/it is either long dead or an evil son of a bi— and definitely not worthy of my respect and worship.
And I am SICK and TIRED of the excuses. This “organization” is a “organization” of excuses. Any question that challenges ANYTHING has at the minimum 6 different possible answers or rather excuses. My three favorite which are being used more and more to excuse the BS being exposed are – “we need to wait for the new scrolls to open up…” and “if Jehovah wanted us to know it then he would have written it down for us…” and “Jehovah’s thinking is higher than ours.”
And before I began to think, I accepted that as the final answer.
unfortunately my belief in any god has been shattered by this cult.
Be yourself., . . . Even if your wrong:-)
Can I say a huge thank you to those of you who risk so much to bring this info to us. I know how I feel being a humble minion when I express myself on here…. ‘what if big brother is watching me… and I know you are. Hello Mr eye in the sky.. have a really nice day and report back to T3. Seriously though, to all you who live and work at Bethel, to Lloyd and his team.. to those who just open their hearts to us on here… THANK YOU. Yes the light is indeed getting brighter because brave brothers and sisters are opening our eyes to what is really going on…. take the blue pill—the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill—you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.
Recently in one of the study’s it asked “what would Jesus have done?” Kind of our own version of wwjd. I quess , SO if he was good jw, he would keep his mouth shut, not question the powers that be and accept the “truth as taught priests” if he just would have done that then he.might not have needed to be df-ed.
I am a former elder (I resigned and wont say the reason for privacy reasons) but I am still an active preacher of Gods word that works amongst Jehovahs witnesses. I refuse to be called a “publisher” I don’t own a printing shop. As an elder I learned the importance of recording everything when you are called into that windowless room. If you visit this site and out of nowhere you have elders or a circuit overseer wanting to speak with you, my sincere advice is to take a recorder or atleast a phone that records with you. I truly believe that the time will come when financial reparations will be sought against this cult and what better proof than an actual voice recording of what they hunted you down for.
A lawsuit for invasion of privacy would be the death nail on the Borg. If you could get solid proof that they are actually hunting down dissenting members, well $$$$$$$$$
Here is a repeat video that new visitors to jwsurvey.org or jwfacts.com must watch before dismissing “apostate” activism.
http://youtu.be/u5JnngqQYvc
A recording device, you must be kidding, why would that be necessary when you have the perfect memory of 3 impartial judges/jury/executioners.
Your right, foiled by the months and months and month these knights of wisdom spend getting home schooled. Who can fight the mighty neurons of these GED semi gods.
Unless its a Spanish congregation in the U.S, then you just resort to communicating through coloring books.
Is that the one that is paint by numbers? It’s sooooo hard to stay inside the lines.
Love what Paul says:
September 29, 2015 at 5:09 pm
God, they’re stupid.
AMEN
Hey Lloyd, got a suggestion, get a Roku channel, then we could catch the monthly broadcast and your timely analysts all at one time.
Here is something I found on the Spanish version of jwsurvey on Saint Rutherford.
We can call it “Millions now living will never get wasted and write great books.”
Walter Salter’s Letter to J. F Rutherford, who was kicked out as a dissenter for writing it.
Obviously you aren’t going to see anywhere in WTS publications where Chitty and Greenlees were taken off the GB for being practicing homosexuals. The society cares more about it’s image than it does with being frank.
There’s plenty of circumstantial evidence. Around the time they left the ranks of the GB, the society talked print about some JWs who were very high up in the organization succumbing to sexaul immorality and “even homosexuality.” The society made no mention in print about why those two left the GB. If they were ill, or otherwise incapaticated, I’m sure the society would have mentioned that.
A.F. has posted in here before on the matter and has some pretty compelling circumstantial evidence to offer.
Regarding Rutherford’s alcoholism, that was well-known at Bethel during his term as President of the WTS. People who lived during that era have frequently written about it. During prohibition Rutherford wrote an article in the WT which was a scathing attack on the Satanic U.S. Government for passing the law on prohibition. Below is a letter from W.F. Salter who left the society in 1937 in disgust over Rutherford’s antics.
You will note that he mentioned expensive booze being smuggled from Candada by the CASE for Rutherford’s personal use.
Here’s the letter Salter wrote:
P.O. Box no. 404
Toronto, Canada
April 1, 1937
Hon. J.F. Rutherford
4140 Braeburn Road
Kensington Heights,
San Diego, California
I wrote you on January 25th embodying an article which I believe proved by the Scriptures that our Lord has not returned and that the saints have not yet been resurrected. That Christ has not returned is proven clearly by His statement in Matthew 24 wherein, having outlined all the things to occur at the end of the age, including the great tribulation, He said: “When ye see ALL these things know that He is nigh even at the door.” Verse 33, Diaglott; and margin King James version. Mark well the Master’s words for He says even after ye see all these things He would not be present, but near, even at the door. Well did He warn His true followers not to be deceived by any man saying He was present when He was not?
I also suggested, that “the battle of that great day of God Almighty” is not necessarily “the battle Of God Almighty” but merely a mighty and final battle of Satan’s visible forces among themselves, in which God would put it into their hearts to destroy churchianity. The time of the battle is the day of God Almighty, just as one might say in the day of Shakespeare, and that would in no sense prove that God was going to fight any more than it would prove Shakespeare was going to fight. God’s act of destruction of Satan’s forces will be beyond Armageddon.
Two years ago last summer you made the statement to me and another that you had bluffed all your life. I believe that was one of the truest statements you ever made and I am now calling your bluff, and challenge you to answer the article above referred to point by point and prove from the Scriptures that Armageddon is the battle of God Almighty.
The premise of all the teachings of the Society’s publications which might be spoken of as spiritual teaching i.e., teachings which are supposed to be for the Lord’s people, is that Christ has returned and is at His temple for judgment. The burden of the Society’s message to the world is that God at Armageddon will destroy all the forces of Satan. If Christ has not returned, and I now believe He has not, and if Armageddon is not God’s battle, and I believe it is not, the light in that connection has come to us not through the WATCHTOWER but from another source, which, proves that the WATCHTOWER is not the channel through which God is feeding His people and not only so but that all the teachings presented therein since 1918 and based on these false premises are wrong!
So much for doctrine: now a word regarding what I feel constrained to state concerning the corruption otherwise of the Society.
As the scales by the Lord’s grace, have fallen from my eyes I have been astounded to see how blinded I have been to your actions, through a superstition that the WATCHTOWER was the Lord’s channel of meat in due season for the household of faith and that you as President of the Society were God’s chief servant amongst His people, and that you being responsible we should be submissive to whatsoever you required done, foolishly thinking that I had no responsibility in the matter and that anything you did that was wrong, or that I did as ordered by you, the Lord would overrule. It was with this thought in mind that I, at your orders would purchase cases of whiskey at $60.00 a case, and cases of brandy and other liquors, to say nothing of untold cases of beer. A bottle or two of liquor would not do; it was for THE PRESIDENT and nothing was too good for THE PRESIDENT. He was heaven’s favorite, why should not he have everything that would gratify his desires for comfort. True, I had a part therein for I partook of your hospitality, or shall I say the Society’s hospitality for it was the Society’s money but I partook, as above stated, being blinded with the idea the THE PRESIDENT was in charge and therefore responsible and not I. Today I see that the thought was absolutely wrong and that the squandering of the Society’s money in that respect was a mis-appropriation of funds, and I should have taken no part therein whatsoever. I confess my wrong before the friends and before the Lord and ask their forgiveness and His.
Often as I thought about this extravagance and waste and then thought of the lot of the pioneers I was puzzled, but my conscience was lulled by the belief that the Lord was using you to serve His cause and people and therefore I did not and dared not say anything that I thought would cause the friends to lose confidence in you as a servant of the Lord. True, I have humorously said to those whom I thought were our mutual friends things regarding your idiosyncrasies that all MEN between friends say one of another, just as you have said of me, which things I know have been traitorously (Matthew 24:10, John 16:1,2) reported to you not along out of their setting but so out of their spirit that none who wanted to know the truth would recognize them as the original statements, and before my God I can state I have never to my knowledge done anything intentionally to injure you, the work of the Society, or its interests, in my life. In that betrayal you joined hands – not that I mind in point of fact I thank God that He permitted it and assure you I would do good to any of the conspirators had I the opportunity.
While recognizing your position as President of the corporation I have always reserved the right to think. It has been well said, “A man who cannot think is an idiot, a man who won’t think is a fool, and a man who is afraid to think is a coward.” I absolutely refuse to have any person do my thinking for me. I could not do otherwise and be faithful to my God. I could not be a Russellite and be faithful to God; I could not be a Rutherfordite and be faithful to God; I could not be a Channelite and be faithful to God; and I could not be a Dawnite or any other Ite and be faithful to God. To be such, to my understanding of the Scriptures, would mean one was defiled with women (organizations) and subject to their will and not the will of God. (Revelation 14:4) “He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully (And not the deductions and sophistries of men” no matter what they may claim for themselves or their office – or organization with which they happen to be associated,) “Behold. I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the Lord…and cause My people to err by their lies, and by the lightness.” Jeremiah 23:28,42 . True, all these Ites or Iarns have some truth: some more, some less. Otherwise they could not deceive the people. It is with that very truth, together with the sophistries of men, that Satan blinds men; in fact the more truth they have when wrongfully used, the more deceptive they are. Each claim to speak with authority, some much more dogmatically than others. Paul well counsels, “Beware any lest man spoil your through philosophy.” – Col. 2:8.
The squandering of the Society’s money on liquor was only one thing I had cause to wonder over; there were other things. I could not help but contrast with the lot of the pioneers the luxury that you surrounded yourself with and the comfort that I enjoyed, and among these luxuries I cannot refrain from mentioning the following:
1. Now one but two 16-cylinder cars, one in California and one in New York. One would not suffice for THE PRESIDENT nor would a 6 cylinder car be big enough for THE PRESIDENT, but a 4 would do for a pioneer, or a bicycle or a hand-sleigh, or trudging along without any vehicle at all.
2. Your New York apartment, easily worth a rental of $10,000.00 a year. And its luxurious furnishings.
3. Your palatial residence on Staten Island, camouflaged as essential to the broadcasting station WBBR.
4. As though that residence were not sufficient, a further small place of seclusion in the woods of Staten Island where you can go and rest your weary body while the pioneers and others trudge from door to door.
5. Your further abode at San Diego, for which you yourself told me you were offered $75,000.00, but of course it could not be sold and the funds used to help the pioneers because it was deeded to David – what hypocrisy!
6. Commodious and expensive quarters in Magdeburg, Germany, for the convenience of THE PRESIDENT, to say nothing of the provision made for your comfort in London.
As what is your mental attitude toward all this? Why you glory in it and brazenly advertise it to the friends. “Who dares find fault therewith? Am I not THE PRESIDENT?” Yes, you glory in it, glorying in your shame.
Nothing is too good for THE PRESIDENT. He must have every comfort and every consideration, but he feels very sympathetic and so tenderly disposed toward the “dear pioneers.” Words are easy, but actions speak louder than words and I cannot imagine a more striking illustration, even as between the clergy class and laity, than between yourself and the pioneers as referred to be Jesus words when he said: “For they (the hypocrites) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their little fingers…Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites for ye devour widows houses…ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte. And love…the chief seats in the synagogues…and to be called by men, “Rabbi Rabbi” (some distinctive name). Truly the pioneers and others have had burdens heaped upon them that you would not move with one of your fingers. Truly the widows have been robbed at your suggestion, or rather I should say command, for your command to the friends is, “Take their last penny for a book; they need it more than bread.” What a spirit! And yet the friends submit to it. While a few will take the penny and as Paul says, “glory in their shame,” how the vast majority hate it, but feel they must obey – God is speaking. What sacrilege! What blasphemy! What trafficking in the name of the Heavenly Father! The friends have served you faithfully, they have unknowingly been your servants, robbed by you of everything even the word of God and his precious promises which you have made null and void by your vain babblings; trudging on day by day, wondering but without a murmur. My what faithfulness, and what a taskmaster! I feel sure many will have their eyes opened, for 7,000, at least at heart have not bowed the knee to Baal even though they have advertised your name more than that of God Almighty. I would that you had gone from door to door as the pioneers and others have, and you would then know what you are talking about.
I could go on at much length about the things I know considering your personal conduct and the contrast between yourself and the pioneers, but I choose not. My sole purpose in outlining my personal experience with you is with the earnest hope of awakening the friends to the fallacy of putting confidence in man above God’s word, or idolizing an office and putting confidence in that office above God’s word. A Christian must learn that to honor God he must put faith in God’s word and God’s word alone, making it his shield and his buckler and not a man or body of men or corporation, no matter what claim is made for that man, body of men or corporation, for soon we get into the paths of human reasoning and that invariably leads us to disaster as the wrecks all along the pathway of the Gospel Age bear witness to. One organization after another Satan has overreached and brought into subjection of his will. The clergy class being overreached by Satan tried to establish the Kingdom before its time and convert the world. Of course, they claimed they were not doing it but God was. So today Satan has overreached the Society and has caused the friends through the WATCHTOWER to believe the time has come to establish the Kingdom and gather together the great multitude before the time, claiming of course that they are not doing it but that God is. But God is not and they are therefore not getting nowhere as all honest brethren are now admitting and are asking the questions, “if the millions who will never die, constitute the great multitude, are being gathered, where are they? For they certainly are not coming in our town or city.” You know and I know, all who read the reports intelligently know, that despite all our stupendous effort – there are less than 50,000 associated with the Society in its work! If for the next ten years there should become associated an average of 50,000 a year, at the end of that time there would then only be 550,000. How long would it take at that rate to gather the “millions who would never die,” and if such must take their stand before Armageddon, as you teach, how far away is Armageddon? Well, someone will say, “Well, if that be true what are we doing now?” The Bible answers the question: “We have been with child, we have been in pain, we have as it were brought forth wind; we have not brought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the earth fallen.” Isaiah 26:18. “Not everyone that saith unto me,’ Lord, Lord’ shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, “Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils, and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then I will profess unto them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” – Matthew 7:21-23. The Roman Catholic Church is doing a great work but in the name of the Roman Catholic Church. Likewise the Protestant systems are doing a great work in their names, and the Salvation Army is doing a great work in its name, but the Society is doing it in His most holy name (Jehovah). “In fact, Lord, we’re so busy with works we have hardly time to open our Bibles, let alone study them. You see, Lord we have our YEAR BOOK to study now and that tells of our wonderful works, and our PRESIDENT, too, is very busy writing books. And oh, Lord, he is so courageous and his faith in Thee so great that he gets behind four walls, or surrounds himself literally with an armed bodyguard, and bellows away his dreams (Jeremiah 23:31,82) [sic] and sends us out from door to door to face the enemy while he goes from ‘drink to drink,’ and tells us if we don’t we are going to be destroyed. But don’t misunderstand us Lord, we don’t do it from fear or for reward, but because of our great love for you, and therefore will not be disappointed if we get no reward, but our hope is we will spared through Armageddon. Our PRESIDENT, Lord, is really a very important man. Of course he says he is not even though he thinks he is, but then that you and it is not for us to reason why; ours is but to do and die; and ‘we love to have it so.’ Of course he says when he speaks personally it might not be correct to say he is speaking for you, but when he speaks as PRESIDENT or through the WATCHTOWER or books then you speak; is it not wonderful!”
In fact these publications, he says, contain your commands and we must obey. My, what a difference a little man-made office or a little paper and ink make. How authoritative one then becomes and just on a par with the Catholic priest who says bread and wine is just bread and wine but he blesses it, oh my, it is the actual body and blood of Christ!! How alike Mr. Rutherford (excuse me, I should have said ‘Judge’) is to Mr. Ratti, for does not Mr. Ratti say when he speaks personally it is nothing but when he speaks as the Pope, he speaks infallibly. “Oh,” some will say, “the Roman Catholic Church is the counterfeit of the true and the Society is the true church.” But the question might be asked is it not more reasonable to conclude that the Society is the counterfeit of the Roman Catholic Church even though the Catholic Church is not the true church, do not appear to be the work of the same potter? Note, the spirit of both: pride, arrogance, intolerance, bombast, to say nothing of the spirit of judging. Furthermore, Paul’s statement in 2nd Thessalonians 2:4,8 seems to have application to both organizations. These verses read: “…so, that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (When we speak officially, God speaks commands. Beware!)…And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall annihilate with the brightness of his coming!”
Now a word regarding the financial progress of the Society. You inform the friends and the public that the books and booklets are placed with the public at cost – they surely are and more!! You well know that the price to the pioneers until recently covered all costs including all appropriate overhead charges and even now the loss is only slight on some items, while on the other hand the price to the companies and public nets the Society at least 100%! What is this 100% if it is not profit? Poor gullible friends. How they believe everything you tell them!!! Where do they think the millions of dollars invested in buildings, machinery, stock, etc, at Brooklyn, Magdeburg, London, Toronto and other places, to say nothing of your own dwellings, etc, come from if not from profit on the books? You know and I know that the gain the Canadian Office alone during the past few years was a hundred thousand dollars. And at the time I was relieved of my duties there was not only a large sum in the bank as customary but also over $25,000.00 in cash was lying in the Society’s vaults at 40 Irwin Avenue and had for years, which could be used for the needs of the President or those whom he might designate in case of an international emergency – and the dear pioneers? Well, of course they could go hungry. Poor gullible friends!! My, were we not blind, and how blind the friends still are! And yet the annual reports tell of our great losses and how it is hoped the Lord will make it up. Well, it is said, “figures don’t lie, but liars do figure.”
From the article “Upon Our Lord’s Return” which shows it is a future event, which the vast majority of the friends now have, and which others may have upon application, they can choose between a “thus saith the Lord” as found therein and your bombast, bluff, and follow which they choose. Furthermore, from the above testimony, which is true before the Lord as you know it to be, the friends can determine whom you are serving. Many no doubt will decide, “I will remain with the Society until THE PRESIDENT himself through the WATCHTOWER tells me I must go.” Poor, deluded children, may God have pity upon them is my earnest prayer. They ultimately will be forced by the logic of events to realize their mistake even as I was forced to, blindest of the blind.
It seems strange that after our experiences of 1914 and 1925 we should still fail to draw a clear cut line of demarcations between deduction and a “thus saith the Lord”, and go on dogmatizing regarding the Lord’s presence, dogmatizing about the Lord being at His temple, and dogmatizing concerning what Armageddon will bring about. But there are “none so blind as those who won’t see” and they will go on prophesying false dreams until events themselves prove the folly thereof. And this, even though such false teachings bring dishonor to God and His word, for what is prone to dishonor God’s word more in the minds of people than testimony that is made with a declaration that it is based upon God’s word when that testimony is found to be false. One does well to take heed to Deuteronomy 18:21, 22, which reads: “If thou say in thine heart how shall we know the word, which the Lord hath spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the Lord, if the things follow not nor come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord hath not spoke, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptously; though shalt not be afraid of him.” (An outstanding example, our nonsense concerning what God was going to do in the year 1925.) And again I quote Jeremiah 23:28-82 [sic] “He that hath my word, let him speak my word faithfully…Behold, I am against them that prophecy false dreams, saith the Lord, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness.”
Up until the time I received the article “Upon Our Lord’s Return”, above referred to, I believe the Society was the Lord’s organization. That article shook my belief therein. I wrote you to see if the article could be answered. It has not been answered. I cannot be answered because it is the truth, and I now no longer believe the Society is the Lord’s channel of truth or that you are a servant of the Lord, whatever else you might be. As God is against the Society (Jeremiah 23:98-82) [sic] and every other adulterous woman that defiles men and makes them puppets or “yes men”, so must I be. I was active in the service work up to and including the “Jehovah of Hosts” testimony period and then was forced to the conclusion that such service was not only not of God but dishonoring to His Word and Name. Why, one may ask? I answer: because the message contained in the publications is largely based upon the false premise that our Lord is present, the He is at His Temple and that God at Armageddon will destroy Satan’s organization and usher in His Kingdom in power and glory upon the earth. The message is spoken presumptously and is based upon philosophy or deduction of man and not upon a “thus saith the Lord.” In other words, it is what the Lord speaks of as “false dreams” and He say He is against such and therefore I must be. Was the Lord please with our false dream concerning 1925 and the zeal of the friends in that connection? He was not. Was it a lie. It was. Did we learn any lesson therefrom and humble ourselves before the Lord? We did not but went right on presumptuously heralding broadcast our further dreams in His name. Will He be any more pleased this time with our dream and zeal than he was in 1925? He will not, and therefore it behooves a faithful child of God to courageously take a stand and “come out of her that he be not a partaker of her sins.”
But someone may ask, “if the Society is not doing the Lords work, what is the Lords work?” The answer to this question must stand until a later date. Suffice to say now that just as one required to see in a measure at least the corruption of Churchianity and be dissatisfied therewith before he could accept what truth the Society had, so likewise one must see in a measure at least the corruption of the Society and how far it has departed from a “thus saith the Lords” before he can receive the answer to that question. In the meantime, I would suggest that any who read this letter should read carefully and prayerfully 1st Corinthians 18 and Philippians 4:8, pausing after each sentence to think on what he has read.
While hardly related to the matter at hand, I could not help but think as I read a recent copy of the GOLDEN AGE of Paul’s word in Phil 4:8 which reads: “Finally brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue and if there be any praise, THINK OF THESE THINGS.” I wonder how one could read such blood-curling stuff and obscene language as the GOLDEN AGE contains and at the same time carry out Paul’s admonition. But I can hear some scoffer saying, “Oh that was only Paul and he said it long before the Lord came to his temple in 1918. Since then we are taught to be real “He” men, real “Christians” that know how to use strong language.
In all my twenty years association with you I always had a kindly feeling of love toward you in the Lord and have in sincerity always closed my letters to you giving expression thereto. Even upon this occasion I cannot refrain from saying that I would to God that you would awaken to your position and make full confession before Him, for I have no ill will toward you whatsoever; I pity you and would do you good if I could. Remember, God is a God of loving kindness and tender mercy; His mercy endureth forever!
As I survey the whole matter I am reminded of Jesus words in John: “This is the condemnation that (cometh upon you) lit is come into the world. And me (you) loved darkness rather than light because their (your) works were evil”, not truth but lies, false dreams, vain babblings. “Am I therefore you enemy because I tell you the truth?” Galatians 4:16
Sincerely,
W.F. Salter (signed)
Wow, great read…judge Rutherford would be sooo proud of the new H.Q. today…you can just visualize him driving a group of groupie sisters around the facilities in a 16 passenger Merzadise sprinter van, long Island ice tea in the cup holder..Definitely would be way to busy to spend any with wife and son…
No, he definitely would still be rocking a Cadillac, he loved his top of the line luxury cars. The real question is would it have spinner wheels? Would he wear Air Jordan’s, Dolce and Gabana, Michael Kors? I’d hand out with him and we’d cruise to
http://youtu.be/uPqnrQfm8oU
I can guarantee that tm3 wouldn’t be riding shotgun, no way , he’d be lucky to be in backseat. .and outta sight.
That’s true he’s more conserved with beating the watchtower to death, that all mighty JW.ORG might rise like a fiery Phoenix in the universe of Cyber Cults and drain the bank accounts of millions now living. Given all the money woes and the unmasking taking place a friend on another site predicted the seven samurai would soon be raptured to some Caribbean island with no extradition by a giant pile of money. Im waiting to see what happens.
OHHhh MY GOD ..,,, Mr SALTER!!… YOU ARE SUCH an HONOURABLE & COURAGEOUS MAN!!
Regarding the 1937 letter that W.F. Salter wrote to Joseph Rutherford at his Beth Sarim mansion in San Diego: Great letter outlying the hypocrisy of the man who named his religious cult Jehovah’s Witnesses. It is common knowledge that Joseph Rutherford was a belligerent drunk. However, the added information provided makes Rutherford look even worse.
Two items from this letter are of particular interest to me:
“… a superstition that the WATCHTOWER was the Lord’s channel …” Superstition! An irrational belief, especially with regard to the unknown. That’s the explanation that I have been looking for. That’s why so many Jehovah’s Witnesses remain faithful to the Watchtower when it is so obvious that it is not God’s channel of truth. They’re superstitious!
“… the message contained in the publications is largely based upon the false premise that our Lord is present …” Nothing has changed in nearly 80 years. The Governing Body will say anything to promote its false 1914 teaching. The ridiculous overlapping generation doctrine is a prime example of this.
Great observation
Jehovah witnesses deny rumors UK headquarters move to Chelmsford could collapse!
Further confirmation that the WTBTS is in peril!
Sorry maybe this is old news it broke 18 hours ago.
You’ll hear of branch closers and reports of branch closers, but the end is not yet…
Hope to hear more soon, last one out hit the lights.
One of the composite signs of the last of the last of the days…branch closers. ..
@JwPow .. Another part of the COMPOSITE SIGN is … Eviction of Bethelites ..As Well as Branch Closures.. THEN another part of the SIGN…. IS STEPHEN LETTS WASHING HIS OWN …, UNDERPANTS !!! … But the END is NOT Yet!!
When you Catch Sight of the DISGUSTING THING?? … ANTHONY MORRIS Cooking HIS SAUSAGE??? …Pardon Me !!’
BUT When you see GEOFFREY JACKSON coming on a CLOUD..!! … You Know you HAVE HAD ONE TOO MANY!!!
Laser keyboard + autocorrect = spelling fail
I am an elder looking for advice.
Goal is to fade eventually. Have been baptized 6+ years. Wife was born JW.
I would like to resign from being an elder. I don’t know how to go about that. What can my reason be for it without a cause for questioning?
My concern as I explained to my wife was Letts comment that we should not believe the media’s “lies” that Jehovah’s organization is covering up cases of sexual abuse. We saw that Morning Worship on broadcast together. I expressed my concerns with that comment and what we as elders are expected to do. I told her how Lett is lying to our faces. That is hypocrisy. I commented on the audacity to now put up two videos which mention how this org does not handle child sexual abuse inappropriately. She saw how upset I was and commented I should probably not continue as an elder if I was this bothered. I agreed. And glad she sees it this way.
My wife continues to believe that Jehovah will take care of this in due time but still defends the org. I am happy that she agrees with me on stepping down as elder.
Now, any experience or suggestions on how to go about this? Please help.
Chinchilla
Just leave. Period . No matter what the cost just walk away. You MUST be true to yourself and to the real truth. If you lose family or contacts or sociability…so be it. Would your really want friends who only love you for agreeing with 7 dilusional men in New York???
Get the hell out… Start your new life. No excuses, no tap dances, no guilt….. Just plain leave. It all gets better after that.
Tell the truth the way they do. Without being specific, just say your under a lot of stress and can’t handle the anxiety of your own drama, much less anyone else at this time. Let them know and don’t take no for an answer, if you wish to fade slowly, make no mention of what you know about anything. Never, ever give up any personal information as far as school work, friends etc.. Watchtower policy is that anything you say can and will be twisted against you. Express no doubts, just enjoy the meetings and service from a spectators point. Your first meeting after being freed of hipocracy will be your best one ever. Keep sharing bible knowledge without the jw agenda if you can. Don’t give up on God he’s still there, only your religion will be your personal relationship with him.
Thank you Robertoperez67. May I ask what you mean by not giving personal information? As in to the elders during that meeting?
I’ve come across all sorts from the rare authentically humble and discreet elder to the raise to the top by burying the competition, anyone with an education, liked by friends, etc (the vast majority-sad but absolute truth) after you step down they will brain fart over your true reasons for stepping down at first amongst each other and then to family and finally to anyone who brings up your stepping down. I served for along time as both elder and off and on auxiliary overseer. I learned that the poison in each congregation always begins with these glory seekers and their very, very false humility. Keep your business to yourself. You know very well through our training that we are professional meddlers and have been trained to hunt, not help, any weak links in the chain. A weak sheep is an unproductive sheep and like a bad apple that weak thing can bring the other friends spirits down with their stupid illnesses and problems. Remember your training for what it was. We were line managers of a pyramid scheme without a salary.
@RobertPerez67…. NEVER a TRUER WORD SAID,Robert….. I can tell you speak from BITTER Experience & I Understand WHY!! I have Spoken & went to REGULAR PIONEER SCHOOL back in 1982 & Many ,not All had MOST of the FAULTS you have Mentioned as Mr SALTER in his Letter to Rutherford Brilliantly written shows ‘NOTHING HAS CHANGED Since 1937!! Because as. Mr SALTER Realised it is NOT GODS ORGANISATION !!
Darn you autocorrect *rise not raise
Isn’t it ironic that the letter that was leaked on JW Survey was dated October 4th….JW Survey day.
Happy 4th anniversary JWSurvey – to be observed on October 4, 2015.
from All your friends with true unconditional Love, all 1.5 million viewers and Bethelites – Congratulations!!
The No Spin Zone.
RobertPerez is right because any information is used like a weapon because it isn’t a loving religion. In their own way they will kill you if they can (disfellowshipping) Jehovah’s Witnesses religion isn’t really a religion because it would have to be forgiving for it to be a religion. My sister’s son-in-law is disfellowshipped for the third time because he is alcoholic. He is bi-polar. He’s manic depressive. He almost killed himself by hanging. His knees were on the ground. He almost died by strangulation. He’s disfellowshipped because he admitted to the elders he smoked pot and needs to return to rehab. The elders disfellowshipped him. They chastised him rather than help him. RobertPerez is right, don’t share personal information with the elders. It will make things worse.
The JW org worries more about copy right laws than it does about child abuse cases. The org doesn’t worry about the right things. They need to get a new lawyer.
Religion is stupid. During the war between the Spaniards and Hispanics somewhere in Mexico the Spaniards told the Hispanics “Our virgin Mary is better than your virgin Guadalupe.” The other side, the Hispanics said Noooo, our virgin Guadalupe is better than your virgin Mary so the Spaniards blew a cannon ball through the virgin Guadalupe’s head on the flag. The Hispanic men got upset and screamed ahhhhhhh and they blew a cannon ball through virgin Mary’s head on their flag. Both sides were screaming blowing cannon balls through each others flags and both sides had a lot of casualties. Religion is stupid. I’m going to bed now.
Top Ten worries from WT Corporation:
1). Make sure no copied written letters leaked – Bethelites.
2). Strong consideration to move annual meeting date away from JWSurvey day – observed on October 4th.
Fourth year anniversary of JWSurvey on Oct, 4, 2015. Congrats!!
3). Make sure no internal videos leaked – Elders & Bethelites.
4). To file bankruptcy – Lawyers have stolen all the money.
5). Must tighten the chains on members.
6). Announce someone did say – religion is a racket and a snare!
7). Ask for more donations – from who? The check books have spoken.
8). Announce the great tribulation has started – a lie.
9). Cry wolf – and blame Satan for our woes – a lie.
10). Close the doors and curtains at WT – by the hand of Jehovah.
Peace out,
The LETTER by Mr SALTER to RUTHERFORD in 1937 is ABSOLUTELY STUNNING !! All the points he makes could be Repeated today . I am AMAZED & STUNNED!! Mr SALTER… Such an HONOURABLE ,BRAVE&COURAGEOUS MAN ! WOW & Intelligent …. I Just LOVE His Qoute….’The MAN who Can’t Think is an IDIOT; The MAN who Won’t THINK is a FOOL; The MAN who is AFRAID to THINK is a COWARD!! Brilliant !! Also He Says The WATCHTOWER ORGANISATION became a SUPERSTITION!! How TRUE TODAY !!
What should the Governing Body do when apostate Bethel members leak confidential letters and other secret information? It’s time to lecture the domestics on the importance of obedience.
Governing Body member Anthony Morris III has just delivered a talk so full of lies that even he doesn’t seem to believe what he is saying. Actually, he looks worn out, possibly from worrying about the sorry state of the Watchtower organization. Here are some highlights from his talk, “Jehovah Blesses Obedience”:
Those who are dogmatic accept a belief or teaching as being true without questioning it. Apostates and opposes try to convince God’s people that the faithful slave is dogmatic.
Morris states that Jehovah’s organization is a Theocratic arrangement and that Jehovah is blessing the faithful slave that dictates Watchtower doctrine. This composite slave consists of 7 Governing Body members, who’s decisions and decrees are made collectively.
Morris goes on to claim that the Watchtower organization is ruled by God. The Governing Body does not issue man made decisions, because the Watchtower is governed from heaven. Therefore, if you want Jehovah’s blessings you will obey the Governing Body.
http://tv.jw.org/#home
@Pickled Brain
In answer to your query, I’m from the good ol’ USA, currently in exile for poking fun at Donald Trump’s hair. I kid. Trump doesn’t need me to make him look silly. :) But you are absolutely correct about our shared sense of humor. The British sense of humor (or is it “humour”? – we can agree to disagree) is unparalleled. I noticed in an earlier post you’re a Monty Python fan. Well, honest to God, I GREW UP on Monty Python. It was like Mother’s Milk to me! That zany group of of doctors, lawyers, and English professors who met at Oxford while studying their respective professions, is more than a comedy troupe, they’re a BLESSING. Sorry to get off topic here, but I do have a point. They gave the world an extensive, wonderfully funny body of sketches and films. They instilled in me, or at least cultivated, a zany sense of what’s potentially funny, a sense of humor that has carried me through many a stormy time. The value of a sense of humour (or humor) must never be underestimated! It’s what makes us human. I believe that the people we are opposing on sites like this, are people who have lost that, or perhaps never had it. Sorry to be so long-winded about it.
@Awake . Thank you for your comment . Good to see you were Raised on MONTY PYTHON Sense of Humour& you are Knowledgeable about their background . FAWLTY TOWERS with John Cleese is brilliant !!! & I Loved watching ‘CHEERS’ with Ted Danson ! Great Satirical Humour! NOW the TENUOUS? LINK with the TOPIC …. SATIRICAL Humour HELPS DEFLECT the PAIN & WASTED TIME SLAVING for 7 MENTAL MIDGETS??? Have a NICE DAY!!!
What have the Watchtower ever done for us?
They gave us ‘tight pants Tony’
Well ok besides tight pants Tony… What have the watchtower ever done for us?
Come on Tara, they gave us irrational fears. UNbirthdays (every year).Fear of death, people, the future,the world.Our special assemblies where we were bored together without any recollection of what was droned into us so we had lovely washed brains all shiny and smooth ready for the next session. Tara didnt you just love not being part of the world but not fitting in with the elderettes ? I’m surprised at you not having a single thing to remember but tonytightpants. I hope i’ve reminded you of some of the blessings that you have clearly forgotten. Last one dear friend, all that wasted time and energy priceless. tee hee ruthlee
“Elderettes”!!! I love it!!!
Thanx
Mr Walter Salter. Another beacon shining among the fecal matter.Every day i learn new things ,great things and brave brave souls who went before us.I wrote in my journal, the quote you mentioned PB “A man who cannot think is an idiot….”What is so amazing about this dear brother’s testimony, like all truthful things it is timeless and stands the test of time.Also cannot be buried ,truth will always out. And it is timely.I say this because Satan like God don’t change.But far more clever than us dupes.Having said that we all can see light in a dim place.When all the sewerage is finally exposed and cleaned we will look back to the modern heros like Bro Salter and Bro Ray Franz and honour them as they did the honourable thing.Note ;I always wondered what it meant to be defiled by women as it never made sense. I can go with it being an alluring organisation. My vision of our poorly mother and her fawning seven sons are draped in lovely purple and scarlet hope they like wine. ruthlee/ruthless.
@ruthlee.. Ruth you are SO Right !! Mr WALTER SALTER & MR RAY FRANZ were BRAVE SOULS & HEROES as you say in your comment!! These REAL MEN were willing to LOSE EVERYTHING .., PRESTIGE, POWER, WEALTH & a JOB for LIFE at BETHEL because they Weren’t COWARDS like the 7 Mental PYGMIES of Brooklyn … Who are hanging on to their Luxurious lifestyle & cosy comfortable way of life… The GB are DISGUSTING whereas RAY & WALTER are INSPIRATIONAL,HUMBLE, MODEST Yet SO BRAVE & Had INNER STRENGTH & DETERMINATION to do What was RIGHT & LOSE EVERYTHING … But NOT THEIR INTEGRITY just like CHRIST JESUS !!… These MEN really MOVE US ALL To See this FIGHT to the BITTER END!!!
To all faders.
Here are some suggestions that might help
Step1
Watchtower has always had a built in way of leaving Bethel, being an elder, pioneer etc and it actually will enlighten you. You can resign gracefully for personal health reasons. It worked for me. The Elders were sad to see me.go, but I was glad to be free. The congregation will quickly lose interest in you and you can get to.fading.
Step 2
Business meetings are acceptable ways of socializing with non JWs. Take the time to make new friends and call them.business functions.
Step3
Be honest with yourself and in time you will realize being honest with JWs and tbe borg is way easier than you thought. The only people.worth keeping the truth from are people you.love. I.E. Honey does this dress make.me.look bad? Nooo way! You look great! G.B. Does this Watchtower make.js look stupid? Hell yes it does, you pigheaded arrogant piece of…….
See the difference
Step 4
Find a hobby you love and go do that. You will find people.that have similar interests to you that way. WARNING: addictive making friends with people who you have fun with.
Step 5
Life is too short. Get about finding what makes.you.happy. The time.you.have lost until now cannot be recovered. Dont waste a bunch more time trying to get even. The country is run by lawyers and they are the ones who will win if you chase the borg. Lawyers are not much better than the GB. You only stand to lose more time and heartache in such an endeavor.
Step 6
You must be true to.yourself. More important than anything else. The Bible which says it best and I am.paraphrasing, ‘If Christ was not raised up, then eat and drink.for tomorrow we are to die.’ Ask yourself this one simple question. Did you promise yourself.if this was not the truth you would not be a part of it and not waste so much time with all.of tbe meetings and field service. To thy own self be true. By doing this you.now.are empowered.to live your own life whole and free. Better to be disliked.for.who you are than liked for who you are not.
Last thing, to all who are angry. I once was as angry as you or as angry as any person can be. My ahaa moment came.when I stopped focusing on the hurt and found things to.do that made me happy. When you.let go of the hurt, the world looks totally different, the sun is brighter, the grass is greener and their is reason for hope and happiness.
Best Wishes to all in your journey wherever you find yourself
Tiger, good advice, but I am not one to just walk away when a harm has been done to myself or my family and I believe a grave injustice has been done to us- financially, spiritually, psychologically, emotionally- and retributions must and will be paid.
Don’t just fade out of existence! You are doing harm to others by not doing anything at all for fear of “lawyers.” Don’t do anything illegal and they can’t touch you. It is that simple. But there is much work to be done!
Distributing flyers questioning 587/607/1914 for example, at the Kingdom Hall is a great way to start. Getting people to THINK and to QUESTION EVERYTHING is the start to breaking free from this cult. Remember, we were inside the Borg too at some time, so we know what automatic defenses they have to keep their brains under Borg mind control. Use that to your advantage.
Or, write emails to all of your friends using a anonymous email address. Ask them what they think about 607/587/1914. I bet you most will say that they do not believe it! I know I never did since I was a child but just accepted it (and dozens of other false teachings) as something I’ll have to wait for until “the new scrolls” are opened… LOL OMG retrospectively, I must have been INSANE to believe that! I remember talking to my uncle who was an elder at the time and asking him why animals get sick, and suffer and die in the same way we do if they had nothing to do with the “downfall of MAN” – keyword MAN. I mean animals never did anything! And his answer at the time was vague and comprised of: “good question; I don’t really have an answer; the bible says Jehovah removed the protective barrier from the earth so everything was in chaos; I don’t know really except what the GB tells us to believe so it must be true; I guess we will have to wait for the new scrolls to be opened to see.”
My god! Of course it makes no sense because it is total bull—-! What does answer this very clear is that the entire universe must follow the rule of ENTROPY! It is that simple.
Well I could on a rant for hours about all of this BS but the point is, why not help others to break free while still remaining inside the Borg collective?
I’m not saying this is for everyone. It takes a mentally strong person to pretend you still belong to the Borg. I’ve been doing it for over 2 years now as an MS, having to drag myself to the meetings and listen to the BS, answers from self-righteous holy holy holy assholes who think they are better than everyone because they are friends with the circuit overseer and they pioneer, and then to have to discuss the BS after an assembly with my family. It literally is enough to make you go insane! Like I said it is not for everyone but my goal is to help as many as I can “come to an accurate knowledge” of this cult.
Bottom line is, if you are not able to openly question what you are being taught, then it is NOT the “truth.”
Ok, now I need a whiskey. Or ten.
@actigall ur. I could never do what you are doing. I could not spend my free time at those meetings anymore listening to things I knew were no longer true and how can you go door-door and pretend it is the truth? To me I had wasted over 23 years in the WT and serious years and me best years of my life I gae to them from 19 years old to my early 40’s and I could no longer do it. It made me physically sick bc beside a full time job and overtime and raising 3 kids and going to all those meetings and field service and BS ( Bible Studies LOL ) I could not do it anymore and di anyone say BORING! The entire 1914 thing was always skeptical anyway and when I aoke to the fact that 1914 means nothing I said this is a CULT. I had to leave. Of couese I faded b I did not want my family to shun me plus all my social life was with the JW’s. I slowly exited and now almost 20 years later I ask myself how I ever beveled that BS they taught? I just don’r ee how you can still hang out and go to the meetings and FS bc that in itself takes to much of your life. In my opinion you should be making up for lost time you gave the cult and enjoying your life and making new friends etc. Not judging you my friend I just don’t see how you can do that and not believe the crap they teach. You must not be married at this point?
@holy connoli- Like I said, what I am doing is not for everyone. I’ve been keeping a video journal of my adventures for my own sanity and for the day the SHTF in the GB’s conference room.
Imagine going out with the circuit overseer in service, sitting in his car group discussing return visits and listening to him tell us how CLOSE we are to the end because of the latest event in the news, all the while being a double agent apostate actively working to undermine this cult and expose the lies. Often, when I am doing the sound counsel, or roving mic, I am on my tablet reading JWsurvey or some other apostate site just to pass the time and keep my sanity.
Believe me, sometimes though I envision myself just exploding on stage while giving a talk and telling everyone to get out of this cult now! But then clarity sets in, and I remember that I am on a mission. If I lose my cool, my mission is finished. There is no going back.
Some people volunteer their time and risk their lives to help rescue the whales or some other endangered species. I say, if they can do that, I can do this, which is more important work and exponentially more satisfying.
@actigll Ur.I do admire you if you can do that. I guess if it works for you that is fine and I do not judge you at all. It is amazing and I am sure you have some pretty amazing stories to tell.
So when you go door-door do you actually present the WT and Awake and invite people to the KH etc?
What if people Challenge you on the teachings or History of the WT? Do you defend them? Just curious how you handle it.
How about when you socialize at gatherings with the JW crowd do you “pretend” to be part of it and support their ideas? I have a question for you? Since you are still considered a JW in good standing etc. and you hang around the JW’s all the time what is the feed back among your JW friends about the new teaching of the overlapping generation and 1914 etc? Also the new teaching that the WT no longer believes in type and Anti type in regard to most of their
teachings? My wife is still a strong JW and he won’t share much with me unless she paints a positive side to it an she told me oh yes, the new generation teaching makes perfect sense and of course we accept it. Since I don’t hang around many JW’s I cannot get a feel for what they really feel. I do have a few JW friends I hand out with once in a while and they accept my position of being “INACTIVE” for 20 years now and I make jokes about 1914 to them and they laugh but some f them say, oh yea, it doesn’t really matter bc we know we are deep into the last days etc. I tell them it should matter bc it is the basis of all other JW teachings. If that is not tru then the Whole teachings of the WT are false?
If you can do what you are doing and stay sane more power to you. I do admire you for it.
@Holyconnoli- Great questions! You said, “So when you go door-door do you actually present the WT and Awake and invite people to the KH etc?
What if people Challenge you on the teachings or History of the WT? Do you defend them? Just curious how you handle it.”
Ok, so I only go “door to door” a few times a year, for example when the CO visits. All the other times I pretend to go out in service. I do take the group out when assigned but then I just leave afterwards to visit my “bible study” (who does not exist) and visit Chipotle instead.
When I really do go out those few times, I usually just do my own territory with another young brother who is “very spiritually weak,” as one elderette (the wife of an elder) told him to his face. Again, like me, he is just sticking around for his parents. IF for the rare reason I must go out with the CO when he personally asks me, I’ll really try to place magazines. I know that if there are 2 people who take the magazines, once they google JW’s, they will never want us to return. Speaking of returning, all of my RV’s are fake.
You said, “How about when you socialize at gatherings with the JW crowd do you “pretend” to be part of it and support their ideas?”
Yes and no. When they start talking about retarded things like “I wonder if we will eat meat in the new system” I just laugh out loud and coyly ask, “I wonder if the dinosaurs ate meat…” or something absurd. The responses that ensue are priceless! Usually I talk about ANYTHING ELSE but spiritual bullshit. I MUST maintain my cover.
Then you said, “Since you are still considered a JW in good standing etc. and you hang around the JW’s all the time what is the feed back among your JW friends about the new teaching of the overlapping generation and 1914 etc? Also the new teaching that the WT no longer believes in type and Anti type in regard to most of their teachings?”
Yes I am still in good standing. I must be doing this right because an elderly sister told another elderly sister who told me that I am the nicest brother in the hall. But I do hang out with some young ones but not often. They have their own worldly friends and so do I. They are basically inactive. They couldn’t care one way or another about any of the bullshit from the WT. One girl who just graduated high school, joked to me about something the other day– I forgot what it was. It was so funny cause I almost thought she might be waking up and also apostate! The older ones just keep drinking the toxic Koolaid. “We will do whatever Jehovah’s organization tells us to do.” I am not kidding. Do they believe the “overlapping generation” bullshit? Probably not 100%. But they always reply, “so where do we go to from here…”
Oh boy! All I can say is thank “YHWH” for the internet. As I posted before, “don’t lie on the internet. We don’t need a polygraph to see if you are lying.”
*****AND THAT MY FRIEND IS WHY THE WATCHTOWER IS GOING TO COLLAPSE!******
@Actigall UR. Wow!You got balls/cajones I must say. You really are an under cover/double agent! lol With what you are doing you must get some kind of satisfaction from it or you would not be doing it.More power to you.To me it sounds like no one has an idea of what you are doing and you have fun with it at the same time.At what point do you plan on “coming out of the JW closet”? What if they find out you are an “APOSTATE”? Do you care, will you deny it? Also how long have you been a JW , you sound like you are on the young side maybe in your 30’s ?
Funny thing I know other JW’s like you that just go through some motions and pretend to go out in FS but hang out at the coffee shop most of the time!
I enjoy your enthusiasm an spirit.
This is a very helpful comment. Thanks so much!
Tiger123, I agree with a lot of what you say and you give good advice. Faders need to exit in a way that is comfortable for them. In time faders figure out it is best to be respected rather than than liked. Then they leave.
I feel JWs are sweet (like sugar substitute) they are so judgemental they become hateful. They’re attitudes causes them to not like anyone and they don’t even like themselves. You cannot have self respect and be in that religion.
Thanx really appreciated your comments tiger,it’s a giant shift of the way one perceives things,kinda like switching to organic foods..or quitting a bad habit…in time your health improves,and you’re much happier.especially knowing that you’re not the only one.i appreciate all the comments,wanna thank lloyde too!!
Lloyd, Is your web site hosted in the United States? Is there a way to host your web site out of the United States where the laws may be more flexible for your cause?
I agree. Put your site “offshore”, cedar!