Tony Morris has been filmed at a convention praising a JW child who died refusing blood
Tony Morris has been filmed at a convention praising a JW child who died refusing blood

The three-day regional conventions of Jehovah’s Witnesses are given different themes from year to year.

This year’s theme of “Remain Loyal to Jehovah” offers a fascinating hint of the paranoia gripping the Governing Body leadership as the internet helps an increasing outflow shed their indoctrination.

But despite the changing themes, some things about the convention program remain constant year after year. All Jehovah’s Witness conventions conclude with a long rambling talk in which one of the most senior Watchtower officials in attendance relates a cascade of feel-good experiences intended to bolster the faithful.

Now it seems a convention held last Sunday in Knoxville Tennessee has set a new record for the most disturbing and distasteful Sunday-afternoon motivational experience. The high-ranking speaker who related the story? Who else but Governing Body member, and no stranger to controversy, Anthony Morris III.

A video posted to YouTube by “Cappytan” shows Morris conveying the heartbreaking tale of a young boy named Josh (age undisclosed) who pays the ultimate price for being brought up as a Jehovah’s Witness. Despite doctors quietly urging him to accept a blood transfusion while his parents’ backs are turned, Josh doesn’t flinch and ends up being praised by Morris for martyring himself despite “persecution” from the medical staff.

Morris concludes the experience by reassuring the crowd: “And when he’s resurrected you’ll hear more from him, because Jehovah loves that little fella.” The thousands in attendance then have little hesitation in applauding to signal their approval.

This despite the fact that a young boy, clearly a product of childhood religious indoctrination, is now dead because of the Governing Body’s stubborn prohibition of a medical procedure on which the bible, for all its prodigious rule-making, is silent. After all, how could bible writers ban something centuries before it is invented?

There is no way of knowing how many Jehovah’s Witnesses, like Josh, have had their lives tragically abbreviated by Watchtower’s blood stance, which only dates back as far as 1945. Though the likes of Morris show pride and enthusiasm in sharing these anecdotes before doting audiences, they are curiously less eager to release official statistics indicating the global yearly death-toll resulting from their teachings.

More protection needed

As easy as it is to point the finger squarely at a 21st Century Christian death cult for placing its own interests ahead of the welfare of its followers, I cannot help but feel aggrieved that Josh’s doctors were placed in a position where they were so powerless to keep him alive.

There have been repeated cases in many countries, including the UK, Australia and New Zealand, where judges have intervened to make sure no stricken minor has to pay the ultimate price for their parents’ fanaticism.

The children of Jehovah’s Witnesses NEED the protection of the State in these instances, no matter how convinced of their beliefs they may seem.

There have even been some indications that, faced with this scenario, Jehovah’s Witness parents are relieved that responsibility has been taken out of their hands, giving them plausible deniability when elders (the congregation enforcers) start asking questions. (Accepting blood is a disfellowshipping offense for a Jehovah’s Witness if he is not sorry for it.)

So, what was so different about Josh? Why was he allowed to lay his precious life on the Governing Body’s grotesque altar of loyalty without any State intervention when other minors in his predicament have been rescued?

Details in Morris’ gloating speech are predictably scarce, so perhaps we’ll never know the full story. What we do know, and have known for some time, is that for all its gleeful cries of persecution directed toward “Satan’s system,” the history book shows that nobody, not even Hitler,* is more prolific at killing Jehovah’s Witnesses than Watchtower itself.

 

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*An estimated 1,200 Jehovah’s Witnesses died under Hitler’s regime.

If you are a Jehovah’s Witness, and you would like further information on why the ban on blood is immoral and unbiblical, please click here.

Editor’s note: Since this article was posted, it has become apparent that Tony Morris’ experience (which he related as though it were recent) is actually from a 1995 Awake! article. It seems that, when it comes to finding material to remind Witnesses of the need to sacrifice their children, no anecdote is too old. Scans of the magazine article in question are available here. We would like to thank our readers for bringing this to our attention.

153 thoughts on “21st Century Christian martyrdom: Tony Morris praises JW boy who died refusing blood

  • July 6, 2016 at 11:45 am
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    This is truly sad and disturbing. If a person wants to sacrifice himself on the alter of religious extremism he has that right but to impose this on a child is tantamount to murder. Invariably it will be said that the decision was the child’s but the fact remains that the child was apparently fully indoctrinated by his/her parents who bear full responsibility for the death. To claim that the doctors, whose heartfelt desire it is to see the patient live, were persecuting the child is misleading and false.

      • July 6, 2016 at 2:48 pm
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        Oh! The devil made do it… Yeah sure dude… Spellcheck. Yeah right… The dog ate my homework… Only jokin…

        • July 6, 2016 at 2:50 pm
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          Made ME do it… Damn spellchecker

          • July 6, 2016 at 3:06 pm
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            Jeff,
            I don’t believe in karma, but…

            That was karma dude.

          • July 7, 2016 at 2:31 pm
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            Haha, telescoping! I had EXACTLY the same thought.

          • July 7, 2016 at 2:34 pm
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            Dammit. Got me too, though. I typed ‘telescopium’ but auto correct got me too! My husband came in and I hit send without proofreading.

            Way to make me feel like I’m not living right, lol!

          • July 7, 2016 at 3:50 pm
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            Spellchecker-
            It’s not nice.
            It’s not kind.
            But it’s always right.

            We are all victims.

  • July 6, 2016 at 11:48 am
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    ~Sad.
    The odd thing is that the Bible ONLY talks of blood AFTER death. Deuteronomy 12:16 is clear that the blood must not be eaten but spilled on the ground after the slaughter of an animal.

    So the law is NOT concerned with blood coming out of a living person or animal.

    • July 6, 2016 at 2:36 pm
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      Preface, acknowledge the right of individuals to choose medical treatments or refuse medical treatments without duress or undue influence.

      But, on a different conscience view.

      Those verses are an extension of the commands to Noah, as well, but most JW’s will go to Acts (the verses also used to prop up having a Governing Body, although it is clearly showing this was an ad hoc meeting of not only apostles but several bishops from the area like the Early Church Councils) where it specifically states “abstain from blood and things [meat] sacrificed to idols”. [don’t get your boxers all bunched up, just yet] However, what this exegesis by Watchtower doesn’t accommodate is the where verses later equate blood = life, and in fact Deuteronomy adds that the “soul” (= life) is IN the blood, so by pouring out the blood the soul departs the body and continues on. But, we also have Jesus commenting that “There is no greater love than to lay down one’s life for one’s friends.” (John 15:13) Well, if life is in the blood, what is the greatest act of love?

      We know that Christ shows the ultimate act of Love, which Watchtower denies attributing Christ’s passion for ministry to the “urgency” of the ‘last days’ but it was truly Love motivating and driving Him to lay down his life. And, why not, since God is Love–pure Love (1 John 4:8).

      I had wanted to post something secular regarding mind-control projects, but somehow I was moved in another direction..

    • July 6, 2016 at 2:42 pm
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      I always wondered that.

      How could a bag of blood represent the life of an individual if the individual continued living without it?

      • July 7, 2016 at 5:17 pm
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        Aha, that’s where the Watchtower comes up with a third element–the nephesh, breath of life, or spirit. Even so, that also has a “separation from the body moment and continuing on” as evidenced at Eccl. 12:7 – dust to the ground, but the spirit wafts back to God–it continues on. So, basically, they have two items that continue on after the body dies. Life after death.

        Stay tuned–I also believe I’ve stumbled upon the Watchtower’s covert belief in the Trinity concept (the core concept on the nature of divinity being shared nature). It hinges on the Watchtower’s fun with words and phrases games by diverting attention to the underlying definitions and jacking the phrase or terms to meet their “ends”.

        • July 8, 2016 at 4:01 pm
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          I happily await your next episode JBob!

  • July 6, 2016 at 11:49 am
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    Maybe Josh was between 16 and 18. In Canada, if the kid is 16, he can refuse blood and die.

  • July 6, 2016 at 11:57 am
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    Death is a sad sad thing. Especially when life is cut short. What does the phrase “abstain from blood” mean? If a doctor tells you to abstain from alcohol or anything else for that matter, would you then inject it? Besides bloodless mesicine is increasingly being taken advantage of by members of the general public. Hey even the US army takes interest in this type of medicine – BLOODLESS surgery I mean. I am not an expert on the bible, does it say you cannot smoke? Does it say you cannot experiment with substances? Its not a book of laws, is it?, but a book of principles. Come on mate. You are one disgruntled human being, but why? You found peace, you found your own “faith”. Why can you not be happy, is that because you doubt your own decisions making “fascilities”? That is why the world is such an ugly place, it is full of people who tear down. I like some of your articles, they are interesting and they make you think outside the square, what I hate is how you also tear down and seem to get kicks out of it. Whether I am religious or not, is not relevant, what is relevant is your constant negativity. I get that, there are many strange religions and cults needing scrutiny, scrutinise by all means, but you lose your argument when you become sarcastic, negative and opinionated, you were a JW? You have your reasons for leaving and the world will never know the real reason for you being so disgruntled. Keep your opinions to yourself, present a story, leave your readers use their own reasonings to come to a conclusion, even if it’s different then your own.

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:05 pm
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      The society is always positive about itself. To offset this, someone needs to point out the negative. This does not mean that John Cedar is a negative man. He enjoys his family life and child. He also enjoy warning others about a cult who has brought him much suffering. I doubt he would have this level of motivation if he had not been shunned by his own family. In short, he is fulled by the hatred received by this group.

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:12 pm
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      By the way, the analogy to blood is stupid. If a doctor tells you to abstain from something, it would be to safeguard your life and you would follow it for that reason… for not wanting to die. Even than… if you were lost in the desert with a bottle of alcohol in your hand, would you still respect that admonition?

      Oh, and if you did take alcohol, would it even make sense for the doctor to kill you?

      Now, why would God ask you to die for something that symbolizes life? And why would a God that values life, KILL you for taking in blood in a life vs death situation? Its just doesn’t make sense.

      • July 6, 2016 at 2:30 pm
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        Hang on so, the witnesses break up families as I keep hearing. Perhaps it’s the people that left the religion that break up families. That person makes that choice to leave for what ever reason, I don’t know. So what is being said is that their freedom to associate is more important and overrides the freedom of the person who choses to follow the religion’s rules, which are interpreted from the bible? I don’t want to get into a discussion on interpretations. Let’s look at it the other way around. Perhaps it is the person that leaves that breaks up families. I assume you live in a country which rules you have to follow, I know I do. Some of those rules are outright ridiculous in my view, yet I need to obey these no matter how incredibly ridiculous and unfair some are to a regular citizen. If I break these rules, I suffer the consequences. No body care what I think of the rules. I mean seriously make a point by all means, like I said it makes people think outside the square, but an argument or a point loses credibility when personal opinions based on bias, ignorance, stereotype and even outright hatred is within the theme.

        • July 6, 2016 at 4:53 pm
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          So if an 11 year old is baptized, due to his belief system taught from infancy, he should forever shunned by his family when he learns the truth about the truth?

          • July 7, 2016 at 2:09 am
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            This is exactly the point that I wanted to make. I was raised as a JW and I got baptized at the age of 12. I am a victim of child molestation, and this happened when I was 14 years old. Since then everything changed, I could not believed that this was the God’s organization and I wanted to leave but for some reasons I did not take this decision back then. After a year or so I was forced to speak to the man that molested me because he was reinstated. Now that man serves in the congregation and he is stand on the platform to teach (yes, all his privileges were given again to him). My family shuns me, since I took the decision of leave the JW’s at the age of 24 (The best decision of my life). My point is, you can not shun people based on decisions they took when they were children. According to the Bible, Jesus got baptized when he was mature enough to take this decision (30 years old!), so you can’t call a child, he is a muslim child, a christian child, a Jehova’s Witness child, etc. That is child abuse. And the system of shunning is a method used not only for JW’s, but also for Muslims, Moonies, Scientology etc, in order to keep control of their flock and blind them of the reality of their false doctrines.
            When you combine a shunning system with child indoctrination, such situations will happen. And when I read things like “the unrepentant sinner is the one that tears families apart because of his behaviour”, that makes my blood boils, because you do not know the reasons why a person leaves a cult, or religious organization. This if far from being fair.

        • July 7, 2016 at 2:48 am
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          I would add, “but an argument or a point loses credibility when personal opinions based on bias, ignorance, stereotype and even outright hatred is within the theme”. Please apply this to JW’s opinions and arguments, they are out of touch of reality and truth, because the governing body keeps control of the information that JW’s receive and an average JW never double check it and contrast it with the very sources the GB used to make up their policies and commandments. We are in the information age, if you have access to information you are less likely to be fooled by religious bullshit. If you want to believe it, carry on, do it, I am not stopping you to do so. But if your beliefs tresspasses humanity, intellectual honesty and reasoning, then… I have and issue with you. And in sum, that is what happen with religion. Get over it, you can neither stop people for getting informed just by writing something from your indoctrinated mindset. The information is there at your fingertips, just click on.

        • July 7, 2016 at 5:29 pm
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          Let’s all pile on Vz…

          I understand that it seems this innocuous group couldn’t possibly as vile and evil as portrayed in this blog, but consider this.

          If you have a friend [let’s keep with the alcohol analogies {clink!!}], and let’s say that friend prefers gin rather than vodka, would you ostracize that person for having no taste while you strongly love your vodka and its cocktails? Let’s say it’s your relative, after years of them obligingly swallowing down your rot-gut vodka, they show up at your place with a premium bottle of gin, or scotch. Would you slam the door in their face? Would you never take a phone call from them, or step over them if they had fallen in the street from dehydration, even though they lovingly picked you up serving as a “designated driver”?

          While the world goes out of its way, now, to respect a difference of views, the Watchtower makes every effort to trash individuals who wander in to learn more about it, or children who just happen to be caught up in the group by their parents’ actions.

          Cheers!

          • July 9, 2016 at 5:38 am
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            I would never turn anyone away if they showed up with a premium bottle of scotch.

        • July 8, 2016 at 12:21 pm
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          No, the organization breaks up families. My husband had been disfellowshipped for over 30 years when we married. I was never a JW. He left me for his mother (a staunch JW Pioneer) who convinced him after he received a blood transfusion that in order to prevent being slaughtered and destroyed by Jehovah, as his wife (me) will be, he must return to the Watchtower Society and get restored to Jehovah. I have been encouraged by some in the organization to go divorce him, as there is little hope for our reconciliation should I not convert. Hah! Yeah, that’s going to happen.

          • July 9, 2016 at 5:02 am
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            It’s amazing how powerful that indoctrination can be. It can lie dormant for 30 years and then suddenly be reactivated. That’s why I believe it is vital for those who leave or who are put out to come to terms with what was really going on in regards to the mind control and in many cases to get professional help.

            Sorry to hear of the situation this cult has created for you, Denise.

            WS

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:13 pm
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      1. Alcohol and blood are entirely different substances and behave in entirely different ways when injected intravenously. One kills in that scenario, the other one can save life.
      2. Nobody is disputing the advantages of bloodless surgery, but when life is at stake, and a transfusion is the only offer on the table, you take the transfusion – especially if it’s your kid’s life at stake.
      3. If you don’t think the bible is a book of laws, then you’re definitely not an expert on it. This website would not exist if people treated it like a book of poetry.
      4. Atheism is not a faith. It is the exact opposite of faith.
      5. If you want to make me feel guilty about standing up and voicing my disgust at Watchtower’s death-dealing blood policy, I’m afraid it hasn’t worked. You are welcome to cower under the sofa and let bad things happen without doing anything if that’s what makes you feel good. Don’t expect a listening ear when you evangelise your passivity and advocate it for others. The world is awesome but there are also many things about it that need changing, and they won’t change if everyone adopts your head in the sand, “hear no evil speak no evil” approach. As Christopher Hitchens said: “The grave will supply plenty of time for silence.”

      • July 6, 2016 at 2:32 pm
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        The point was the meaning of “abstain”.

      • July 6, 2016 at 8:03 pm
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        By all means fight the evil, please do. Just do it in a way that does not put down other people’s way of life, no matter what their beliefs. When you do that, I am afraid you have lost the fight and that evil you so passionately fight, it remains.

        • July 7, 2016 at 12:31 am
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          to vadrchlina: You forget to mention the WT puts down every other lifestyle or way of life or religion except the religion of the WT. They condemn ALL other religions as FALSE and part of the WORLDWIDE Religion of Babylon the great! Soon they teach all other religions and way of life EXCEPT the WT will be destroyed! They also put down other ways of life that they do not agree with. No dating, No religious celebrations, no voting, no politics, no attending your own families weddings or funerals if it is at another Church! They disfellowship anyone who is a member of the JW’s who publicly disagree with them or interpret the bible different than they do. So they are the ones who Judge and condemn other religions and other ways of life.You and I Both know it. The list can go on and on, on what they condemn.

          • July 7, 2016 at 11:56 am
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            @ Holy Connoli;

            Funny, where do you find the whore ‘Babylon the Great’? Is she not on the back of the Scarlet Colored Wild Beast (U.N.), riding (controlling/supporting) it?

            Was not the WTBTS an NGO member of the U.N. for ten years (circa 1991-2001) an organization that they identified as the scarlet colored wild beast supported by Christendom (Babylon the Great) back earlier than 1963?

            Have any of the wise ‘faithful and discrete slave’ Governing Body been castigated, reproved, removed or disfellowshipped for that egregious error in judgement?

            Or should the Holy Spirit, that guides this organization, be blamed?

            “The list can go on and on, on what they condemn”. Truer words these. However, it will only effect those that continue to listen to them and their wicked, vitriolic, doctrines and steaming diarrhea of continued New Light.

            The WTBTS (Governing Body) should be nicknamed ‘dirty diaper’ …. stinky, full of crap, and on everyone’s ass (arse)!

        • July 7, 2016 at 2:21 am
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          I am sorry but I cannot keep silent when the JW’s lifestyle affects mine. My parents do not have a normal relationship with me, and their grandson because of the stupidity of shunning. So you become an activist somehow, because you want other people to know the truth about JW’s and how untenable their policies are. We have freedom of speech and we want to make responsible used of it, as JW’s do by making assertions about today’s world and other religious denominations.

        • July 7, 2016 at 5:46 pm
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          If a persons beliefs are not worthy of respect, THEY WILL NOT BE GETTING ANY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Respect for a persons spiritual beliefs is not an automatic given anymore. These cults need tackling. If a persons touchy feelings happens to get hurt while they support evil, too bad!

      • July 6, 2016 at 8:41 pm
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        Thanks for stepping in Cedars, your logic is always appeciated. This utter nonsence from Vzdechlina must be addressed. And he or she has so many fallacious points of reasoning, it would take way too much time to debate.
        By the way, good going “Cappytan”!!

      • July 7, 2016 at 3:11 am
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        Well said Lloyd…and thanks for the quote from Christopher Hitchens…what an amazing brain that man had.. Tight Pants Tony would not have lasted 10 minutes with that incisive reasoning power.

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:15 pm
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      @vzdechlina

      Are you for real….when you advocate you criticize the wrong doing….that’s bad in your eyes? Should this be ignored or maybe a feel good fuzzy message instead….a child died needlessly…..do you understand that? Apparently not….so if you’re asking the writer to move on and get on with his life, may I ask what you were even doing on this site to begin with….hey mate! Stop caring to read and get on with your life…..or maybe, take a minute or to to pause on the seriousness of the matter and not be so critical of someone who advocates for freedom from cultish group think and death…

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:44 pm
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      “Whether I am religious or not is irrelevant…” Well…judging from your use of the trite “abstain from alcohol” scenario every JW is taught, you are in fact, a JW.

      So, as someone who once bought that line wholeheartedly, let me share some thoughts for you to consider.

      1) To whom was the original directive “abstain from blood” given to?
      (answer- Noah, Gen 9:4)

      2) Why? – I will let the Golden Age answer that…
      “All reasonable minds must conclude that it was not the eating of the blood that God objected to, but it was bringing the blood of the beast in contact with the blood of man.” Golden Age 1931 Feb 4 p.294 How do we know that? Because Deuteronomy 14:21 allowed the selling of unbled animals for food to those bound by NOAHIDE LAW, BUT NOT MOSAIC LAW. The Mosaic Law DID forbid the eating of blood by both alien residents and Israelites, saying to do so meant they would be cut off. Serious, right? So why does Lev 17:15 say that anyone who came across a dead (an obviously unbled) animal and ate it was only to be declared unclean and had to go wash? (I know the answer…but I want you do do a little digging on this yourself)

      3) Blood is a sacred symbol, and represents life. So, what is most important to Jehovah? The symbol? Or what the symbol represents? (this requires critical thinking on your part)

      4) What is Pikuach Nefesh? (Go on, look it up…)

      5) Are you aware that former Governing Body member Ray Franz attested that the MAJORITY of those on the Body voted AGAINST the prohibition of blood transfusions, but because procedure required a 2/3 majority, the minority won? Yeah…these uber holy, communicating directly with God’s Holy Spirit for the most part felt it was unscriptural to apply the biblical principles regarding blood to transfusions…

      6) How many times has the Governing Body made changes to, and even REVERSED, parts of its blood policy? (by reversed…old light became new light which became old light again. Until it was new light.)

      ANSWER: SIXTEEN. Yep. 16. Can you honestly say that gives indication they are receiving clear spiritual direction on this matter? Really?

      7) Do you realize, that because minor fractions are allowed, and all fractions can be broken down into minor fractions…EVERY SINGLE BIT OF BLOOD CAN BE TRANSFUSED SO LONG AS IT IS FIRST SEPARATED INTO FRACTIONS. Because…Logic?

      8) And…ding ding ding…the real kicker…where do those fractions come from? Anyone? Anyone?

      DONATED BLOOD.

      I could go on, but, Paul Grundy dissects the topic quite thoroughly at jwfacts.com

      Now….I won’t bother to defend Lloyd, because he doesn’t need my defense. As a JW, you know what is at stake. If what we were taught isn’t true, if it is all one big, fat lie…then the lives and happiness of millions are at stake, for multiple reasons. And that is why apostates do what they do.

      Now you, my friend, have been counseled clearly to not be here. To nit comment on apostate sites, to not try to debate…and this is why. Because they know if you do, you will eventually be faced with arguments that make you engage your own critical thinking ability. You will ask hard questions that you dont want the answers to. You came here because you are weak, and you know it, but you felt if you could give a good witness here, that cancels out your weakness in Jehovah’s eyes.

      Friend…we have all been exactly where you are now. We aren’t rebels, we aren’t wicked, we didn’t leave because we didn’t want to follow the rules…we simply found out it wasn’t true. And most of us did so by doing exactly what you came here to do…prove that we were right and apostates are wrong.

      But truth holds up under fire. Lies don’t. If you truly value your relationship with God, you owe it to make sure you are following the path of TRUTH, because you know what the bible says about those with ties to FALSE religion.

      Go to jwfacts.com Of every site out there, that one has the most concise, logical, unbiased information, in the largest volume, regarding the history and teachings of the organization. And what is really nice, is that Mr Grundy has expended tremendous effort to include countless citations from JW Literature, to back it all up. You don’t have to research “apostate lies”…everything you need to know is right in your own KH library, if you know where to look.

      You are so close to waking up friend…don’t close your eyes in fear now.

      • July 6, 2016 at 1:44 pm
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        @ Miranda Presley;

        Absolutely wonderful questions and comments to this poor J.W. Well, I guess we were all deluded by this doomsday cult at one time.

        Another fact worth checking out is how the acceptance of an organ transplant was considered an act of cannibalism not to long ago. God only knows how many J.W.’s died following that consul.

        Once again, everyone needs to follow their own conscience and pay the consequences of their own decisions by not surrender their logical thinking ability to a group of ‘uneducated’ morons who are under the delusion they are guided by God’s holy spirit.

        The more you research this corrupt doomsday cult the more you will realize this is NOT or ever has been or ever will be God’s earthly organization. Not in a million years.

        • July 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm
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          You nailed it Miranda…

        • July 6, 2016 at 4:13 pm
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          You nailed it Miranda…

        • July 6, 2016 at 8:50 pm
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          The organ transplant thing had a huge impact on me when I found out. Not just because they changed their stance, and not just because people died…but because of the complete lack of accountability for their actions. When you make a rule that results in the death of people, and enforce it with the threat of being shunned, and then CHANGE that rule because you realize it was wrong…then they should have been on their knees in anguish, begging forgiveness and trying to make amends in every imaginable way, including monetary compensation for the families and reinstatement of those df’d for taking a transplant.

          But they did none of that. They passed it off with a “Oopsie, guess we were wrong..” and acted like the lives of thousands were not destroyed because of it. For me…that demolished my respect and trust in the organization. To claim to be the sole representatives if a just and merciful God, yet to behave in such a callous, irresponsible, unloving way….it doesn’t jive.

          Of course, that was only one of the many factors in my decision, but it was a big one.

          • July 7, 2016 at 12:08 pm
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            @ Miranda Presley:

            We will all die of old age waiting for an apology from the seven mental dwarfs calling themselves the ‘faithful and discrete slave.’

            Since their appointment (self appointment) by God’s Holy Spirit (the thought of this makes me wretch) they can do no wrong. Why? They are appointed by Gods Holy Spirit (so they tell us, see above) which eliminates from God who is infallible, this making their decisions infallible (unless of course they are proven wrong then the ‘adjustment’ is passed off as NEW LIGHT).

            If Armageddon is a real event, the Kingdom Hall is the last place for refuge I would seek as the destruction will certainly start there!

            The abuse of God’s name, who he is and what he stands for has been sullied for all time by these so called Jehovah’s Witnesses.

          • July 7, 2016 at 12:14 pm
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            Excuse me :)

            The sentence should read:
            “which emanates from God who is infallible,”

      • July 6, 2016 at 2:38 pm
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        LOL, loved this total tear-down and logical reasoning.

      • July 6, 2016 at 2:56 pm
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        Oh my gosh Miranda, that was amazing! You need to write movies!

      • July 6, 2016 at 8:47 pm
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        That was the most incredibly logical essay on the subject I have seen in a long while. Well, well done!

    • July 6, 2016 at 1:36 pm
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      If “it’s a book of principles” what is the principle being espoused by Jesus at Mt 12:1-4?

      If you’re not used to answering questions without the Watchtower’s help, here it is:

      “In these verses and in the ones following Jesus was calling attention to acts of mercy on the sabbath day, that it was perfectly legitimate to render a show of mercy to one who is in need even though it was the sabbath, and that there is, in effect, no violation of the sabbath by such course of action. He had no rebuke for David’s course.” (Watchtower 1952 September 15 p.575)

      The account that the Watchtower cited from Matthew invokes the rabbinic principle known as pikuach nefesh: saving life overrules God’s law. In the above passage, the Watchtower writers agree with this principle. They acknowledge that “there is, in effect, no violation” of God’s law in the “show of mercy to one who is in need.”

      Now let’s imagine the figure of Jesus, just as the Watchtower has represented him above, only this time instead of being out in the grainfields with his apostles, he is sitting at the bedside of a child who has massive internal bleeding. The attending doctor has ordered the nurse to administer blood. Suddenly, in storms the elders, Bibles in hand: “Stop!” They shout. “You are doing what is not lawful!” Based on the above Watchtower passage, what do you honestly suppose Jesus would say to them?

    • July 6, 2016 at 1:52 pm
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      If a doctor tells an alcoholic to abstain from alcohol, would the patient be right to then refuse an alcohol wipe prior to receiving a shot in the arm? Nope. And that’s a better analogy, because (as the Watchtower now admits) a transfusion is a completely different application of blood than eating.

      In any case, “nothing from outside a man can defile him.” (Mk 7:15) So blood can’t defile you. The prohibition was never about US; it was about symbolically showing respect for the life of a slaughtered animal (because “life [is represented] is in the blood.”)

      There simply is no law against blood transfusions in the Bible; the Watchtower made it all up. Allowing children to die on the basis of such hollow “reasoning” should be a crime: a very serious crime.

    • July 6, 2016 at 3:11 pm
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      Maybe Vzdechlina lost a relative or a friend due to the blood ban and the only way for him/her to deal with the needless loss of life is to justify the WT’s blood transfusion ban???

      • July 6, 2016 at 10:09 pm
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        :O nice story lol

    • July 6, 2016 at 8:28 pm
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      Parents that let their kids die by refusing treatment are murderers. There is no invisible man in the sky to appease.

  • July 6, 2016 at 12:12 pm
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    Your comment is such an eye opener..

    “What we do know, and have known for some time, is that for all their gleeful cries of persecution directed toward “Satan’s system,” the history book shows that nobody, not even Hitler,* is more prolific at killing Jehovah’s Witnesses than Watchtower itself.”

    Never thought about the blood issue in such a way, but I totally agree. The Gov Body is mass killing their flock, either by refusal of blood or those who commit suicide from emotional disconnection from their families brought on from disfellowshipping or from “choosing” to be gay. (Note sarcasm. I believe one is born gay).

    Thank you for spreading the truth about the truth.

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:34 pm
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      Tony Tightpants is such a weirdo. The doctors clearly did their duty in doing all they could to save him. How is it that a misinterpretation and misrepresentation of scripture allowing a child to die, doesn’t equal to murder or manslaughter? Blows the mind.

      • July 6, 2016 at 1:06 pm
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        It defys logic. The child isn’t old enough drive. Isn’t old enough to get married. In some cases isn’t old enough to choose their own bedtime.

        But they are old enough to make a dedication to an organization. They are also old enough to make a balanced life or death medical decision? It’s pure child abuse. The parents and their indoctrination shared in shedding their own child’s blood. Another wasted human life. All for nothing. His parents are going to miss out on the ONE life that they have and their child HAD.

  • July 6, 2016 at 12:12 pm
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    I worked as an RN for 26 yrs…i can not say what others said or did…only myself.

    I can not tell you how many pints of blood…plasma…platelets i spiked and hung over the yrs…i know i would see the orders to infuse after t/cm labs were in…double checked orders against labs and bags…asked pts to sign blood papers…99% did…only 9 refused…of those nine refusals…only 1 was a jw.
    Hosp. policy was…explain to pt i was required by law to read the disclosure and transfusion authorization…notify charge nurse (some yrs i was charge and and DON) and dr ordering blood. If the pt was under 18…i had to call social services ( who then called police to file child abuse charges) who then called a judge on call to hold court in the childs room…judge usually remanded child into state custody and ordered blood transfused…blood usually was spiked within two hours from time parents initially refused…parents would either be jailed or served with trespasses orders…a police officer was assigned to guard the childs door.
    Only one time was the child transferred to another hospital via chopper because parents kept sending family and friends into hospital trying to stop the infusions…
    As a nurse in these situations….iv been verbally and physically assulted…have had threats to my life and had my car followed…one father actually brought a gun into the hospital and threatened to shoot anyone who attempted to hang blood…he accused the staff of trying to infect his son with hiv…
    Parents sometimes become violent and godspeed to the hospital personnel assigned to their family members…bullet proof vests became a mute point when copkillers were sold to the public.

    Im happily retired now.!!!

    • July 6, 2016 at 2:59 pm
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      I’m with you dude…

    • July 6, 2016 at 3:01 pm
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      Wow! What a story scary… Enjoy your retirement…

  • July 6, 2016 at 12:16 pm
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    I feel sick. Josh is the name of the boy who died in my old congregation from leukemia and refusing blood transfusions. He only lived a month after he was diagnosed. Ugh what makes this worse is my family brought josh and his family into “the truth”. I’m tearing up thinking josh could still be alive if my dad and I had never knocked on their door. This is truly sick if it’s the same person Anthony Morris is referring to.

    • July 6, 2016 at 6:39 pm
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      @Tgreat

      Do not be hard on yourself….at the time you did what you thought was right and just….there was no malice in your bones…many of us here “brought in” people we wished we never had….myself included….I’m not trying to minimize anything…..just know that it wasn’t your fault.

      • July 7, 2016 at 10:10 am
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        Thanks nullandvoid. It’s probably going to be a while before this pit in my stomach goes away when I see the society hold up people like josh as “examples”. The josh I knew had just barely turned 16 when he was faced with life and death but the indoctrination of the watchtower held strong with him. He made videos to show in court asking that they respect his beliefs and choice to refuse blood transfusions. He would be exactly the type of example the society loves to exploit to enforce their blood doctrine on others. The type of coercion and mentality that’s spread is “if this boy can take a stand and die so can you”. It makes it really hard to look back on my years being raised as a witness knowing I was part of that.

  • July 6, 2016 at 12:19 pm
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    I understand that it is not a disfellowshipping offence, but they will eventually consider the person as one that has disassociated himselt. The result is sadly the same.

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:53 pm
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      George…you are correct. It WAS a disfelliwshipping offense, however, due to coming under fire by the European Human Rights Commission, they altered it, so that they could say, “No, we don’t disfellowship someone for accepting blood!” When in reality, that is exactly what they are doing. It’s clever semantics, and it is deceptive practices like that which really made me open my eyes to their true nature.

      If this is God’s law, that those who take blood be cut off…then they should have the balls to stand up for it, not pretend that they leave it as a matter of conscience.

    • July 6, 2016 at 12:55 pm
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      That’s correct. It was a legal maneuver adopted after watchtower received severe criticism in Europe. They faced dire consequences for punishing people who were simply trying to save their lives. So their stance changed to “oh no we don’t disfellowship people for taking blood”..which is only half the story. What they don’t tell anyone is that it’s considered an act of disassociation. So you’re still punished. The same goes for donating blood.

      • July 6, 2016 at 4:04 pm
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        to Chifade: Yes, they do not donate blood BUT they accept BLOOD particles which comes from WHOLE blood which comes from people who DONATE blood! So again the WT accepts blood particles from people soon to be destroyed at Armegeddon but they will not help them with Donating blood. Let’s review…it is a cult!

        • July 7, 2016 at 2:37 am
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          Because of HIPAA laws in the U.S., it is unlikely that any GB member will be exposed for violating the no blood policy. Anyone who is in a position to definitively state that one of those old men accepted a transfusion would almost certainly be sued. There are many things for which the GB can have their hypocrisy exposed. Unfortunately, the blood issue is not likely to be one of them.

  • July 6, 2016 at 1:10 pm
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    This is truly a needless tragedy.

    It’s curious to me that in the long history of the WTBTS none of the Governing Body members have ever “martyred” themselves by refusing a blood transfusion.

    What are the odds?

    C’mon Tony, Steven, Sammy, et al. Why don’t one of YOU put your money where your mouth is and show us how it’s done?

    Let’s review: It’s a cult!

    • July 6, 2016 at 2:25 pm
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      You’ve read my mind Oubliette!

      I’ve been wondering the very same thing – has any member of the GB or the WT’s lawyers ever needed a blood transfusion?

      Their stories of matyrdom/unwavering faith should be the most publicized/talked about if any of them have ever found themselves in need of a transfusion.

      Well, as the saying goes, you don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. So I guess we will never know.

      • July 7, 2016 at 2:39 am
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        Because of HIPAA laws in the U.S., it is unlikely that any GB member will be exposed for violating the no blood policy. Anyone who is in a position to definitively state that one of those old men accepted a transfusion would almost certainly be sued. There are many things for which the GB can have their hypocrisy exposed. Unfortunately, the blood issue is not likely to be one of them.

  • July 6, 2016 at 1:49 pm
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    I was in Lincoln, NE on Sunday, 7/3 and heard the exact same experience delivered. Josh was 15, from what I can recall.

    After some Googling, I found this article. I can’t confirm that this is indeed the young man who met such a tragic end, but it could be. I wonder if they took a factual story and embellished it with an uber amount or propaganda as a means to set up the paradise video for maximum emotional effect.

    After relating Josh’s experience and just prior to the paradise video, the speaker said “Would you like to see what God has in store for his loyal servants in the future? Let’s tune in to the Paradise TV Channel.”

    Gag.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2010/may/18/jehovahs-witness-dies-refuse-blood-transfusion

    • July 7, 2016 at 9:59 am
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      @WhyTheFace2016
      From the article’s description of the time of day and the other passengers in the car it sounds like this accident occur while in the door to door ministry. Does that make the Watchtower doubly guilty: the child was coerced into volunteering his time in required proselytizing, gets in an accident, then is coerced into not accepting needed medical care. Reflects pretty poorly on Watchtower on all points.

      WS

  • July 6, 2016 at 2:12 pm
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    I cringe so hard at this. My parents were at this convention and no doubt clapped at the loss of this child’s life. Its even more sickening knowing that if it were one of my children who had lost their life they would support it the same as they do this child. I can’t believe someone can be so blind to not see the wrong here. I was raised a Jw but I still could never wrap my mind around this. Isn’t valuing life more important than that? Isn’t mercy more important than a sacrifice? That poor child.

  • July 6, 2016 at 2:39 pm
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    Oh My God! ruthlee

  • July 6, 2016 at 4:12 pm
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    This is absolutely disgusting that they sacrifice their children because of THEIR religious viewpoints. To me the bible talked about the blood of a animal after it was sacrificed. Absolutely cult propaganda. Another life ended way to early due to false teachings.
    They should be brought up on murder charges for all those lost due to a manmade doctrine.

  • July 6, 2016 at 4:12 pm
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    Just another example of an extremist religion.

  • July 6, 2016 at 5:37 pm
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    This is so sad, the odds are this kid would have grown up to leave the organization. Now his life is lost because of the terrible mind control this cult manipulates his parents with. No one can anymore say the organization is just dillisional, this is pure evil.

  • July 6, 2016 at 7:39 pm
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    Please don’t refer to Jehovah’s Witnesses as Christian. They deny all major tenets of the Christian Faith.

  • July 6, 2016 at 9:35 pm
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    If all the JWs who have died since about 1945 were in one graveyard it would be an international scandal

  • July 7, 2016 at 12:29 am
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    Sadly, in my congregation in May of this year a young girl (baptized witness) died for refusing blood. Now, she is being hailed as a hero and martyr.
    As i reminisce my refusal of the office of a congregation elder and of stepping down from the office of Ministerial Servant [as described in the link below], though i’m sad over the young girl’s death, i’m glad i didn’t have a direct share in her ordeal, because i believe that if i were a elder now, i’d have a share in dealing with the doctors for not to infuse her blood. However, i acknowledge that for my association with Jehovah’s witnesses, i’m bloodguilty due to their interpretation of Acts 15:28, 29.
    The link on my stepping down:
    http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/jehovahs-witness/TJPO0RG991PK2ODE6

    • July 7, 2016 at 1:56 am
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      I have read your topix entry Mr A.A.Q
      That whole process sounded very humiliating.
      Wash you hands of the evil cult now and march proudly on to freedom with your head held high.

  • July 7, 2016 at 1:43 am
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    Trying not to be emotional but… I’d love to wring Anthony Morris” evil neck. Manipulative, evil, dangerous villain. Scumbag. Using the senseless loss of a child’s life as propaganda to enforce lies.
    It’s YOU who deserves that grave Anthony Morris lll (The Turd). Not that boy.
    Wretched cult.

    • July 7, 2016 at 8:00 pm
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      He makes me sick. I feel nothing but contempt for these men. My beautiful granddaughter is now 3 months old. If her daddy had been a witness still she would probably have died hours after birth. She has had numerous transfusions and I myself would have opened a vein for her if they had asked.

      These evil men need exposing.

  • July 7, 2016 at 2:40 am
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    Umm that elusive thing they dangle, everlasting life. No one can see that it is just a mirage.looks real but just isn’t. This is just another confirmation that they hate children and are willing to sacrifice them by whatever means necessary . Nothing changes in history. If you believe in the devil he loves the sacrifice of children doesn’t matter in what way, murder sex worship violence or neglect. I think we find this wicked religion just about sums up that criteria. OOOOh I do hope they get their everlasting life on a plate, no kiddiewinkies there to torment. When all is exposed we will see this as a fully satanic cult with no connection to god, jesus or any other deity. I’m racking my brains to think of anything good coming out of this manufactured religion. Nope can’t think of anything positive but I did try. Feeling subdued today over the deaths of these poor kids, also the report of the suicide of a24 yr old girl from bethel. That has really wounded my soul. I have been pondering her last few days and all the rejection and hurt heaped upon her. Again nothing changes yet another sacrifice I suppose they would have provided the funeral pyre a few centuries ago but in these days of enlightenment leave the poor victim to their own devices. wicked men go from bad to worse. Ruthlee

  • July 7, 2016 at 3:22 am
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    Blood is very dangerous stuff. Many die as a direct result of transfusion. Once blood has been stored for more than a day (and it can legally be stored for up to 42 days) it no longer has the capacity to carry oxygen. So if blood saves a life it is because it keeps the veins open. Saline will do the job far better.

    I’m not campaigning against transfusions. If that’s what you want to do then it’s your choice but you’d be healthier if you took an alternative. Chlorophyl is a very similar molecule to haemoglobin so alongside your iron pills eat a lot of green stuff. You’ll get better fairly fast and in a much safer way.

    If you have a serious illness you are going to die whatever you do. That’s dreadful, of course. Look all this up if you don’t believe me. I have no desire to die early so would do everything I could to save my life but I’d prefer to do it a safer way. It might be slower but the end results should be better. A lot of people who are not witnesses think the same way.

    • July 7, 2016 at 9:30 am
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      Sarah, there is only one reason that the Society can use for disfellowshiping somebody if they take blood and that is because of Acts 5:29 to abstain from blood.

      When people are scared to take blood because of one reason or another, then that’s why they won’t take it but when the Society tries to discourage Witnesses from taking whole blood transfusions, then that is only their opinion like when Rutherford was telling everybody not to use aluminum pots and pans and not to take vaccinations. The only mandate that they can use to disfellowship is going against what the Bible says in Acts.

      Could a person be disfellowshiped for using aluminum? They might have done it when Rutherford was saying not to take vaccinations but I doubt it but what authority did he have? Was Jehovah speaking directly to him? Was he God’s mouthpiece?

      Is God speaking directly to the Governing Body when they say that it’s against God’s law to take in whole blood or certain parts of it? Can any of them prove that that God is speaking through them?

      They come right out and say that they are not “inspired” but they claim to be “spirit” directed. What makes them any more “spirit directed” then you or me? Why can’t we also claim to be “spirit” directed when it comes to interpreting the Bible?

      That Scripture at Acts was written 2,000 years ago and if you remember, Paul also said that women were not speak in the congregation but if they had anything to say, they were to go home and ask their husbands. He also said that women were to wear a head covering. What authority does the Watchtower organization have to interpret the Bible for us? If they want to follow what the Bible “really” says then women would not be able to speak in the congregation, would they? And they’d have to be wearing head coverings but the Society ignores what Paul said because the women are doing most of the preaching work and they need women to do the cooking and cleaning at Bethel.

      Can you prove that God speaks through the Watchtower organization? If not, then they have no authority over us and it should be between the person reading the Bible to figure out what it means. If there is a God that wrote the Bible and he wants all people on earth to follow it or be killed, then why didn’t he make it more clear?

      When it says abstain from blood, what did that mean? Women have periods every month and kids have bloody noses. Could the elders in Jerusalem have simply meant not to be blood guilty like not killing somebody?

      It is too vague for people to be disfellowshiped or killed by God when it just says “abstain” from blood. People are dying every day because of how the Watchtower interprets that scripture. They are giving up their lives for it and letting their children die for that one scripture.

      Those scriptures were hand written 2,000 years ago and who knows what they originally meant in the first place? Can you even prove that the Bible in the inspired word of God? Why die for something that you can’t even prove is inspired?

      I can’t imagine how terrified those children are who are having to listen to that experience this summer at the convention. Fully indoctrinated adults don’t mourn and they don’t fear death because they are so sure of the resurrection but what about those kids who aren’t fully indoctrinated? They also fear getting sick and dying and they haven’t been convinced it’s even true or not. They are at the mercy of their parents.

      Those old F$$%#$@s at Bethel got to live their lives. How easy it is for them to tell all those youngsters who have the misfortune of being born into Witness households that they have to die young for something they don’t even understand or believe in.

    • July 7, 2016 at 11:01 am
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      oooh ignorant people giving their opinion in the internet, once again… a 21st century cultural pathology

      • July 8, 2016 at 9:07 am
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        matias-you make your own point.

    • July 7, 2016 at 5:23 pm
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      Sarah,
      I live in a part of the US where we happen to have some of the most cutting edge medical hospitals and universities. People come from all over North America (as well as other continents) to seek treatment, especially for cardiac and cancer related issues. As such I am acquianted with several doctors.

      The days of wantonly transfusing whole blood on every surgical occasion is a thing of the past. First off, blood is in too short of supply to waste where it’s not needed. Further they recognize that there are risks associated with transfusion, and therefore treatment with blood is seen as a last option. Also they typically do not transfuse whole blood except in extreme cases. Usually they only use the component of blood needed to treat specific issues.

      WS

  • July 7, 2016 at 6:10 am
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    If doctors tell you that your child needs a blood transfusion to survive and you refuse to give your parental permission for that procedure then if that child dies as a result of that refusal I say you are guilty of murder. In this particular case culpability extends to the Governing Body who are accessories to this heinous crime! Disgusting evil people!

  • July 7, 2016 at 6:52 am
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    The ban on blood helps some JW waking up. At least it has helped me.

    As a grown-up JW, one of my biggest fears had always been to undergo surgery. But I had to when I was 23. The anaesthetist tried to convince me to accept at least one part of blood. I said no although I secretly wanted to say yes. I couldn’t stop crying for hours afterwards, being in fear of death.

    For me it was a traumatic experience. The 7 years after, I was hypochondriac and in constant fear of having an accident. The worst way to die for me was to die because of refusing blood.

    But without this experience I probably hadn’t asked myself constantly: Why wouldn’t a merciful God forgive someone who accepted blood because of fear of death? Why does he let JW die although it turns “wordly” peoply away from JW?

    I thought that maybe I would understand it when I had more faith in the bible. So I started studying 1989 WT book “The Bible – God’s Word or Man’s”? But then I asked myself again: Why don’t they publish this book anymore? Why didn’t they replace it with a new book? I haven’t found any other WT publication that addresses counterarguments against the bible in such detail. I sat in the kingdom hall and thought “Why do they all believe in the bible? Where does their faith come from?”. For me it was like “the bible says so and that’s because it’s true” but nobody explained why exactly.

    Then, this year in April, my husband found out the truth about the truth. First I didn’t want to listen to him when he tried to fully wake me up. But then he said that he doesn’t want me to die for something I am not convinced of. This was the opener for me.

    I hope the blood policy makes many other JW research. If you have to die for your faith, you have to be 100% convinced of what you believe.

    • July 7, 2016 at 6:41 pm
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      What a moving story Schnufti. Yet another example of fear control propogated by Watchtower. I am sorry for your traumatic experience. Facing surgery is scary enough, without the added stressor of the ridiculous edict of blood transfusions

    • July 7, 2016 at 7:25 pm
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      I couldn’t understand Micah 6:8 and 1 John 5:3 either.

      – Do laundry – check
      – Groceries – check
      – Be friendly to neighbor – check
      – Die of blood loss – check
      – Pet the cat – check

      No not burdensome at all.

    • July 8, 2016 at 3:33 am
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      To Schnufti: Another thought is this. If you are a JW and take blood you are doomed to be destroyed right? If you live you will be DF’s and if you die after taking blood you will not get a resurrection. Either way you are destroyed in the eyes of the WT.

      If you are a Non JW and you take blood and die the JW’s will try to comfort you and till you oh Don’t worry Jehovah will resurrect him.her in the New system. SO the Worldly guy who rejected the teachings of the WT takes blood and will live again even though he may have hated everything about the WT even the blood issue abd broke all Biblical principles but he gets a resurrection?

      The JW who was living a super squeaky clean bible life, and following all of the Stupid WT teachings and is morally clean happens to take a blood transfusion bc he wants to live is DF’d and he has no future life bc he is destined to be destroyed for eternity? DO you see a contradiction here? You might as well take your chances of being a Worldly person! The same thing applies to all the other teachings of the WT. If a JW makes 1 “serious” mistake and is DF’s even after decades of following the WT he is forever doomed. However the worldly guy who breaks every law or principle of God every single day dies and has the resurrection hope but the DF’s JW cannot even get a funeral service at the kingdom hall even though he may have been a Super duper JW for decades.

      Something is quite a contradiction here. I use to think a lot about this when I was a JW.

  • July 7, 2016 at 10:20 am
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    Watchtower is morally, ethically, financially, and spiritually bankrupt.

    Anytime Watchtower has legal problems, they will claim they are protected under the First Amendment Bill of Rights.

    The resolution to any complex problem Watchtower Bible and Tract Society cannot resolve, will be “Leave it in Jehovah’s hands”.

    Jesus Christ did not live on 1 King Drive. The apostles did not live on 1 King Drive. However, Watchtower wants to live on 1 King Drive. They believe they are Kings.

    The Watchtower leadership live in a bubble. The world’s judges are starting to make waves and Watchtower cannot stop them.

  • July 7, 2016 at 10:20 am
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    Lloyd, do you really think it’s appropriate to categorize this example as martyrdom? I have long considered this practice to be an example of modern child sacrifice. I do not believe there is a more powerful way to bring a community together than for them to sacrifice a child from their group. It’s tragic and disgusting that Watchtower has developed a quasi-legal means of accomplishing this. I’d like to hear your thoughts about this, since my admittedly warped view is that child sacrifice is the true kernel at the heart of this cult.

    • July 7, 2016 at 11:36 am
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      Curse, I was thinking the same exact thing, this looks an awful lot like child sacrifice in honor of Jehovah. The twisted irony is that Jehovah detests child sacrifice, especially to honor the gods. I wouldn’t go so far to say that this is a central basis of the religion, though, just a tragic consequence of legalism taken way too far.

  • July 7, 2016 at 11:00 am
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    Almost 40 years ago my Dad was having surgery that required blood . He was set to have multiple surgeries having a colostomy bag for a year . The issue of blood came up , it was as I remember it a troubling period in my life as a teen . First of all when news of my father’s surgery came we had a sister -JW member who was with us in the hospital actually call one of the Elders who came rushing into the hospital waiting room , he was pushing no-blood , or trying to influence the doctors . My Aunt Josephine was a non- JW I remember her screaming at the doctors , meeting in secret with the doctors to go ahead and give blood to my dad . I thank her to this day , it saved my fathers life , he lived 40 more years . This ordeal led myself and my parents out of the Watchtower , first after for a year not going to the KH dealing with my dads surgeries to repair the colostomy–we had no “shepherding calls” , no visits . Year past , suddenly we had 2 elders knock at our door on several intervals — I remember that they wanted my dad to confess that he took blood , it sounded that they were going to DF him on the blood issue , they wanted my mom to go to the meetings , but leave my dad behind . Luckily that did not happen. We did manage to disassociate. For me , mom and dad . The Blood issue is how we woke up.

    • July 7, 2016 at 11:34 am
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      Mars, I’m thankful for your aunt too. She sounds like a strong woman who respects life more than dogma. And because of her strength and her love, you freed yourselves from that soul crushing life.

  • July 7, 2016 at 11:07 am
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    According to WT,64, 2/15, p 127-128, It would be
    “unchristian” to feed an animal pet food that contained
    Blood. So apparently you must always check the list of
    ingredients printed on the tin.

    Accepting that a God “Created” the natural order of things,
    in this case JHVH, he didn’t supply food for animals in tins.
    Predators, scavengers, devoured their kill, blood, bones skin.
    and everything, in the wild it’s their “Natural diet”.

    But it seems Gods way of doing things needs to be improved.
    refined, and these modern day Pharisees consider that they
    are the ones with the authority to do it. And in doing so,
    make themselves into buffoons. But dangerous ones!

    The Apostle Paul, a former Pharisee but now freed from
    all the mental clutter, bought his meat in the open market.
    And asked no questions . It’s obvious he wouldn’t even
    bother, reading the ingredients on the tin.

    • July 7, 2016 at 5:54 pm
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      Omg! Tmwack, I think I actually remember that ludicrous statement, being an animal lover. And I thought the same thing….they eat live animals in nature by the Creators design. And a bit off topic, does anyone remember the (skewed) line of reasoning, that if one should take a female domestic pet to be neutered, if found to be pregnant, it was wrong to have
      her embryos aborted?

  • July 7, 2016 at 12:40 pm
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    Knoxville was the site of most of my DCs growing up. Now to see a GB member speaking there about the dubs’ martyr of the moment, it makes me happy that 2014 was my last convention there. No doubt many of my former friends and acquaintances were in the audience applauding. Applauding for what?!?! The death of an innocent deceived child? I thought we only applauded when good things happened or we got happy clappy over leading questions like, “Are we not OVERJOYED to be serving the most high of all the universe JEHOVAH?” And then we would smack our hands together like monkeys, waking up the snoozers in the upper rafters.

    If the Joshua in the above link to The Guardian is the same Josh mentioned by Tony Mourn-us, it could well be this is a sort of PR move by the GB to deflate the controversy of this tragic death. By turning Josh into a martyr, they reinforce the validity of their doctrine and perpetuate their authority as the fateful and disgrace slave. Disgraceful indeed, exploiting this young man’s death for their own glory!

    I have not personally known anyone to die from refusing blood, although I did know of a few who came close, one a tiny infant clinging to life in a hospital right there in Knoxville. I wonder, is there any way to document and collect data on how many have died since the 1945 implementation of this rule? I know in the US we have HIPAA laws that protect privacy of patients, what about the UK and other countries? And are there other ways to document cases in the US?

    • July 7, 2016 at 7:11 pm
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      Haha great description of convention applauding Zaccheus.

  • July 7, 2016 at 1:31 pm
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    Morris was relating Joshua Walker’s story. Some of what he says comes straight from a 1995 Awake!

    See g95 1/22 ‘Joshua’s Faith—A Victory for Children’s Rights.’

    From the magazine:

    [Quote]
    The Evening Times Globe said: “Both parents emphasized yesterday that they’re not abandoning Joshua. They brought him to the Regional Hospital to get the best medical treatment possible, without blood. ‘We would have left him at home if we wanted him to die,’ the father argued. ‘We don’t want Josh to die. We’re doing everything medically to keep him alive. And that’s what anyone would do for any of their loved ones. We’re not here to watch him die. We’re here to get that boy better, so he can walk out and go back to his trains, go back to the Kingdom Hall, to his meetings and his service, and maybe go back to some basketball.’”

    […]

    One night when Josh was in the hospital, he said: “Mom, a lot of times when you go to the bathroom or go to get Dad, the doctors come in and say: ‘Josh, you need a blood transfusion. Without it you will die. We want to help you.’ ‘Then please respect my wishes about blood,’ I would reply. I told one doctor who tried to get me to take blood: ‘You may think I’m crazy, but I have all my thinking abilities. I just want to live by Jehovah’s law on blood. He knows what is best for us. The best thing for me is to respect the sanctity of life, and if I die I will live again.’”
    [End quote]

  • July 7, 2016 at 2:17 pm
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    I too find it disturbing that the audience would clap after hearing such a tragic story.

    Perhaps they could have sat there in silence and perhaps they could have taken a moment to reflect on the sadness of losing a young life, but to clap shows just how mesmerized witnesses are by an imperfect man, an imperfect religion, imperfect doctrines and imperfect rules and regulations.

    “Making sure of all things” is preached by the witness religion but not if it means questioning anything that comes from the 7 imperfect men.

  • July 7, 2016 at 4:47 pm
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    Tony Morris story about ‘Josh’ sounds like ..a story.. To me it doesn’t sound like something a child would say. It’s hard to believe anything that comes from the watchtower or from the G.B. To many times they make things up.

    • July 7, 2016 at 4:54 pm
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      I believe it happened, I believe the boy died by not taking blood, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Tony Morris didn’t stick to the facts. They make a lot of things up. The society mixes lies in with truth. They like to exaggerate. The poor boy.

    • July 7, 2016 at 4:56 pm
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      I believe it happened, I believe the boy died by not taking blood, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Tony Morris didn’t stick to the facts. They make a lot of things up. The society mixes lies in with truth. They like to exaggerate. The poor boy.

      • July 7, 2016 at 5:27 pm
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        Good point Harry. When you look at the number of misquotes and out of context quotes by the Watchtower, anything that comes from them is suspect. We can apply the old adage about politicians to Tony Morris: How can you tell when Tight-Pants Tony is lying? His lips are moving.

        WS

    • July 8, 2016 at 8:37 am
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      Harry, Joshua died at the age of 15 back in 1994. He was featured in the Awake! mentioned above, his case was in the local news and it has been the subject of medical ethics papers about mature minors making decisions about their treatment.

      Google ‘”Joshua Walker” blood transfusions’ and you’ll see.

  • July 7, 2016 at 6:07 pm
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    Apparently breast milk contains up to 12 times the amount of white blood cells than the same quantity of blood would. So does the baby get disfellowshipped or is it the Mother? Or both.
    I may have this wrong here…. is the baby baptised from the moment of conception?… because if it needs blood upon being born and the parents allow that kid to die without it even having a say….. Everyone born has the immediate protection of the State. What’s happening here? A baby gets born and it’s allowed to be whisked off into a death cult by nutty parents without any questions and without that kid having any rights of it’s own?

  • July 7, 2016 at 9:12 pm
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    The last time I had a conversation with my sister she told me they no longer announce brother or sister Smith has been disfellowshipped from the platform because of a law suit. She said now they announce brother or sister Smith is no longer one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because the society lost the lawsuit. They no longer use the word disfellowshipped. Does anyone know? Is that true?

    • July 8, 2016 at 12:16 am
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      By several years they announce “XXX is no longer blabla”

    • July 8, 2016 at 4:16 am
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      Harry, that is true and it is understood by everyone that that person is to be shunned then.

      • July 8, 2016 at 12:41 pm
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        I was still serving as an elder when they made that change. It was at least 7 or 8 years ago. It’s definitely to avoid legal action. Of course, everyone knows that it means disfellowshipped or disassociated, and carries with it the same shunning requirements. Just another example of Watchtower’s doublespeak and crafty manipulation of the situation to continue to enforce their questionable policy.

        WS

        • July 8, 2016 at 4:41 pm
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          Winston,
          Completely agree. I think that’s why shunning will not (cannot) be removed. Even if a mandate to stop shunning came down from some governmental authority, the Witnesses are still programmed to know how to act. They’ll shun the person anyway, because they’re ‘worldly’ or ‘weak’ or ‘negative’ or ‘inactive’. The terminology doesn’t matter, but the effect will be the same.

          Your “doublespeak and crafty manipulation of the situation” phrase gives me the feeling that the Organization will continue encouraging behavior like this until it implodes or otherwise loses control of all its adherents. Given the rather high probability of a human joining a high control group, I won’t hold my breath.

  • July 7, 2016 at 10:24 pm
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    The applause and expressions of approval following Tony Morris’ recounting of Josh’s premature demise…. it makes me think about how Jihadists who engage in suicide missions are likewise praised by others in their religious order for sacrificing their lives in the name of Allah. Most JWs find such behavior coming from extremist Muslims to be disgusting. Yet, many of them are totally oblivious to the similarities that exist between the attitude of extremist Muslims and JWs when it comes to glorifying the unnecessary sacrifice of life in the name of their god.

  • July 8, 2016 at 2:39 am
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    I don’t believe the story. I think its 90% fiction. The lack of checkable facts and the vagueness is very fishy.

  • July 8, 2016 at 4:36 am
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    I also feel that Witnesses are “sacrifices” to Jehovah and the Watchtower Society. It reminded me of a short story by Shirley Jackson from the 1940’s published in the New Yorker magazine. It caused such outrage that many people cancelled their subscription to the magazine but now is considered on the most famous stories in American history. It tells about a small town that has a ritual that one person has to be sacrificed to God to insure a good harvest.

    People were initially outraged by the story because it is so gruesome but it does draw attention to how people go along with horrible things and don’t stand up for the right thing because of the majority going along with it and in the Bible, it was God’s command to kill anybody who even just gathered sticks on the Sabbath and if a girl couldn’t prove her virginity on her marriage night and a myriad of other offenses that they could be stoned to death for.

    That story made people think and people don’t like to think.

    https://youtu.be/4ZsXi9FqZTc

    • July 8, 2016 at 12:45 pm
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      For the JWs, I think dead martyrs are better than live members. Holding up these folks as martyrs gives them a rallying point and some sort of modern day heros in those who were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice for the good of the cause.

      WS

  • July 8, 2016 at 7:18 am
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    I should have mentioned the name of the story was called “The Lottery” and one person from the village was sacrificed and stoned to death to their god every year and how they did it was they had to draw straws.

    They all had to take a stone and stone the person to death that was the winner/loser of the lottery was stoned to death and those people who stoned the person to death, went along with their business afterwards like it was nothing to them at all. Reminds me of the audience clapping over the death of that young boy.

  • July 8, 2016 at 8:28 am
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    So the deluded would accept a heart transplant but not a blood transfusion? Both are organs.

    • July 8, 2016 at 9:15 am
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      And wouldn’t a heart have some residual blood from the donor? Can you wring it out like a sponge?

      • July 8, 2016 at 12:47 pm
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        Same issue with kidneys, livers, etc. Also an issue with all animal meat.

        WS

  • July 8, 2016 at 9:17 am
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    I know they are all deluded, brainwashed, etc. But shouldn’t a tiny portion of blame go to the parents of these sacrificed children? Just a smidge?

    I mean, really, when your child is laying there dying shouldn’t a person kind of snap to attention and clear thinking, kind of like cold water being thrown on them so they say “NO” – not going to kill my child for a religion?!?!?

    • July 8, 2016 at 12:51 pm
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      They absolute bear some responsibility. Case in point: the Nazis in the death camps were “only following orders.” But at the Nuremberg trials it was stated that this was not an adequate defense.

      But we do realize the parents have been unduly influenced (dare I say brain washed?) and we feel sympathy for them and their loss.

      WS

  • July 8, 2016 at 12:29 pm
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    JHVH prevented Abraham sacrificing his son. God could
    read his heart and was convinced of his loyalty. The extreme
    measure of actually killing his son was not necessary.

    So why do JWs today, have to be tested beyond the limits
    that Abraham was?

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